Flat or Round

[brij]

Just about every religion in the world suggests that the earth is flat. I remember a long time ago when I was in science class and my Pakistani friend was preaching the great sciences of the quran, he started off that only the quran said the earth was round in its time, he showed the great tolerance and consistencies. This is what got me started in islam, I was intrigued, well long story short, in the end I realised the quran was nothing but a book of lies that wasted a lot of my time, a imperfect book with massive errors and intolerance.

Here is a challenge to show that the quran is in error to anyone who accepts to show it is incorrect, is the world a sphere or flat? I found that the quran undoubtedly says the world is flat. –




And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance (15:19)

He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); ……(20:53)

Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein,…..(43.10)

And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, (50: 7)

And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!....(51:48)

'And God has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out),….(71:19)

Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse….(78:6)

And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);(79:30)



This quotes show that allah spread and expanded the earth like a carpet, this shows that in the quran the earth is flat.




Allah set on mountains high lest the earth shake with them…21:31

Allah set mountains firm for earth not to shake…31:10

Allah put mountains standing firm…77:27

Allah put mountains as pegs…78:7



Clearly montains were basically pegs to hold the earth, to stablize it, maybe so it doesn’t tip over or shake, this can only make sense if the earth is flat.



"And among His Signs is that the sky and the Earth stand by His Command…." (30:25)

"Verily! Allah grasps the heavens and the Earth lest they move away from their places,…" (35:41)

Is not He Who has made the Earth as a fixed abode……" (27:61)

"He has created the heavens without any pillars, that you see and has set on the Earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with you……" (31:10)

"It is god who has made for you the Earth as a resting place and sky as a canopy" (02:22)

"And He has affixed into the Earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you, ..." (16:15)



Here the quran shows that the earth does not move, it is fixed, it stands firm.



According to Muhammad the Earth was flat and there are several verses as well as hadithes that confirm this belief.

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." (18:86)

Then followed he (another) way, (18:89)

Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun. (18:90)

One does not have to go another way to the other end of the world to find it rising. This gives an idea that Muhammad, just like the people of his time believed that the Earth is flat and the sun moves in the sky rising from one place and setting in another.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421
Narrated Abu Dhar:
The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing."

See how this Hadith is confirmed in the Quran? So there is no doubt about it. It is sahih. But does it make sense? (6:38)


Clearly the hadith backs up the quran in thinking that the earth is flat. Where does the sun rises from one side of it and sets in the murky waters on the opposite side? Is there a Throne somewhere that the sun goes under it and gets permission? What Throne is he talking about? Is it the same Throne of God that is placed over the waters? When and how the sun prostrates itself? The Earth is spherical can anybody look out and see any Throne anywhere? Has anybody noticed where in the sky the sun stops to ask permission? The absurdity of these tales is self-explanatory. The sun moves around a flat fixed earth.

The quran clearly shows the earth is flat. The quran is in massive error, therefore it is not perfect, muslims then cannot claim that the quran is perfect or from a god that is Knowledgeable.

[manchesterone]

brij ... I think your copying and pasting stuff from the wrong websites to try and find a mistake in the quran..


There seems to be a mis-translation with the word dahaha .. dahaha means egg-shaped.

Go and reasearch the meaning of dahaha and then re-read the translations..

[manchesterone]

good reply back from ghum

[brij]

Some of those verses you gave are badly translated (as evidenced by the parentheses). Otherwise, I don't see how saying the earth is spread out indicated that it was thought it was flat. Your arguments are pretty goofy, I must say. I'm sorry, but it's kind of funny.

I cant believe in all of that, you did not disprove me. Of course its saying its flat, the earth is spread out like a carpet, the earth holds firm and the mountains are used as pegs to hold it and the sun has its orbit which goes around the earth. Clearly it is showing a flat earth, with poor knowledge of cosmology.



The article that you have posted is clearly poor, it shows nothing but quotes taken out of context and misinterpreted.

And the heaven We built with Our own powers (aydin) and indeed We go on expanding it (musi'un).1 (51:48 )

It should be remembered that the concept of the continuous expansion of the universe is exclusive to the Quran. No other Divine scriptures even remotely hint at it. The discovery that the universe is constantly expanding is of prime significance to scientists, because it helps create a better understanding of how the universe was initially created.

Notice the quotes being used –

And the heaven We built with Our own powers (aydin) and indeed We go on expanding it (musi'un).1 (51:48 )

051.048
YUSUFALI: And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!

Now somehow you got this as meaning the universe is expanding. Notice that it does not say ‘‘Universe’’, how did you get the universe is expanding from this? Clearly mullahs and imams have pulled the wool over your eyes. Spreading out, expanding, wide extent rather establishes the century old incorrect quranic flat earth theory.


The next point you made was about black holes. How is it that from 2 quotes you got all of that crap about black holes? Lets see shall we –

Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass (ratqan), then We clove them asunder (fataqna)? And We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?2 (21:31)
021.030
YUSUFALI: Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

Now I have a question, what the hell does this have to do with a black hole? Or the big bang? Does it mention black holes or big bangs? It sure doesn’t. But look how easily you believe this. Lets look at the bigger picture so that it is easer to describe whats going on.

021.031
YUSUFALI: And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.

021.032
YUSUFALI: And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!

013.002
YUSUFALI: Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.
Remember the day when We shall roll up the heavens like the rolling up of written scrolls ...7 (21:105)

It looks like a very primitive image on the relationship between the heavens and earth, the heaven is basically a canopy over the earth. After Allah raise up the heavens on unseen pillars, and put down the earth, he put the mountains on the earth to not quake, like putting a heavy thing on a piece of paper to not fly?! Allah make the sky a roof withheld to not fall on people head?! How he do so? By putting the heavens on unseen pillars, where the earth and heaven on top can be rolled up like scrolls. Clearly the earth is flat. The rest of the quotes support this quranic idea about the earth being flat.

Next you talk about the sun and stuff, well as I said above the earth is flat, and the sun goes around the flat earth. All of the quotes you have used shows this. Heres are more they are summarises cause I cant be bothered to post the full quotes–

The sun and the moon run its course and Allah regulates all affairs…13:2
The sun and the moon is subject to course…14.33
Allah made heavens as canopy…21:32
Allah subjected the sun and the moon running its course…31.29
The sun and the moon runs its course for a fixed term…35.13
The sun runs a pre-determined course…36.38
The sun is not permitted to catch up the moon…36.40
Allah subjected the sun and the moon to follow a course…39.5
The sun and the moon follow exact courses calculated…55.5
The moon follows the sun…91:1, 2


This follows what I first posted –


According to Muhammad the Earth was flat and there are several verses as well as hadithes that confirm this belief.

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." (18:86)

Then followed he (another) way, (18:89)

Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun. (18:90)

One does not have to go another way to the other end of the world to find it rising. This gives an idea that Muhammad, just like the people of his time believed that the Earth is flat and the sun moves in the sky rising from one place and setting in another.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421
Narrated Abu Dhar:
The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing."

See how this Hadith is confirmed in the Quran? So there is no doubt about it. It is sahih. But does it make sense? (6:3



This shows that the earth is flat, the heavens are described as a canopy across the flat earth, the sun and earth go around the earth, notice that it always talks about the orbit of the moon and sun, but what about the earths orbit? The earth is fixed, it holds firm, a fix abode, so there is no orbit for the earth.

Now notice the detailed facts posted on your article and notice the quotes being used, why is it that the quotes being used has absolutely no detail to any of the facts being mentioned, why is it that this quotes are totally misquoted. You must be a very gullible brainwashed person to believe it. The quran does not talk about the big bang, it does not talk about the universe expanding, it barely has any scientific knowledge.

You accuse me of misquoting and misinterpreting, yet you cant prove it. You misquote and misinterpret and I prove it. From a few quotes you are brainwashed into believing all of the crap you have posted. I only posted a few quotes in the first post to show that the quran was showing that the earth was flat. Not only did you even bother to keep to the topic of proving that the earth is not flat you have provided more quotes to show that the earth is flat.

[brij]

Originally Posted by manchesterone

brij ... I think your copying and pasting stuff from the wrong websites to try and find a mistake in the quran..


There seems to be a mis-translation with the word dahaha .. dahaha means egg-shaped.

Go and reasearch the meaning of dahaha and then re-read the translations..

Any one, even a child can see that the earth is not an egg shape, now please can you show me where in the quran it says that the earth is an egg shape, i have never seen this in the quran, please provide the quote.

[WildWolfdog]

Quote:
Its even more stupid that a human being who is flawed can claim flawlessness, it’s a paradox, a imperfect being can not claim perfection.


the quran is not a human being, no human being is flawless and perfect, not even the prophet muhammad.


Quote:
Now show me that this is not a flaw. Look i have even gone out of my way to find you an islamic website that shows the world is flat


that is clearly an anti-islamic site, why do you try to find sites which have an islamic link but are clearly against islam?

Quote:
LOL. Anyone with a brain cell can see how poorly sphinx has failed


that seems to be ur opinion which not everyone would agree with.

Here are some other ayats (Verses) from MUSLIM sites, unlike the ones u bring out of non-muslim ones with misterpretations

Since it was not the purpose of the Qur'an to teach science, the Qur'an did not need to state explicitly that the earth is spherical in shape (or more precisely, a geoid). But some of what the Qur'an says stimulates you to think of the world as a globe. Take, for example, the following verse: "Have you not seen how God merges the night into the day and merges the day into the night?" (Quran 31:29).

Another verse tells us that God coils the day and night around: "He coils the night upon the day and He coils the day upon the night" (Quran 39:5).

The word 'coils' in the verse above is a translation of the Arabic verb kawwara which is used in describing the action of coiling a turban around the head. To understand this statement fully, readers of the Qur'an had to think of the earth as a sphere.

AND HERE'S somethin to REFUTE UR other verses.

The Arabic words for “flat” or “level” or “straight shaped” are “sawi” and “almustavi”. There is not a single place in Quran where there is any indication of the earth being “flat” or “straight shaped”. The word “faraash” in 2:22, 51:48; the word “wasia” in 4:97, 29:56, 30:10; the word “mahd” in 20:53, 43:10, 78:6; the word “basaat” in 71:19; the word “suttihat” in 88:20; and the word “tahaaha” in 91:6, all may mean, “to spread”, “to expand” or “to extend” with slight differences in their connotations, but none signify the earth being flat or straight-shaped.


There is not a single place in Quran where there is any indication of the earth being “flat” or “straight shaped”. all may mean, “to spread”, “to expand” or “to extend” with slight differences in their connotations, but none signify the earth being flat or straight-shaped

read that again, it means "Expand - extend - spread" it doesn't say "the earth is flat" and this is taking into consideration the verses u presented.

[brij]

The earth being flat –

And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance (15:19)

He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); ……(20:53)

Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein,…..(43.10)

And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, (50: 7)

And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!....(51:4

'And God has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out),….(71:19)

Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse….(78:6)

And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);(79:30)


All of this suggests that the earth is flat.










Mountains –

And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance. 21:31

Allah set mountains firm for earth not to shake…31:10

Allah put mountains standing firm…77:27

Allah put mountains as pegs…78:7

"And He has affixed into the Earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you, ..." (16:15)

"He has created the heavens without any pillars, that you see and has set on the Earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with you……" (31:10)

Clearly mountains were basically pegs to hold the earth, to stablize it, maybe so it doesn’t tip over or shake as it is heavy and holds the earth down, this can only make sense if the earth is flat.








The Earth does not move –

"Verily! Allah grasps the heavens and the Earth lest they move away from their places,…" (35:41)

"And among His Signs is that the sky and the Earth stand by His Command…." (30:25)

"Verily! Allah grasps the heavens and the Earth lest they move away from their places,…" (35:41)

Is not He Who has made the Earth as a fixed abode……" (27:61)



Of course the earth does not move, it is flat, it is fixed. Of course there is no orbit of the earth this is way there is no mention of it in the quran, but there is an orbit mentioned for the moon and sun as they go around the flat earth.












The sun and moon around the flat earth –

The sun and the moon run its course and Allah regulates all affairs…13:2
The sun and the moon is subject to course…14.33
Allah subjected the sun and the moon running its course…31.29
The sun and the moon runs its course for a fixed term…35.13
The sun runs a pre-determined course…36.38
The sun is not permitted to catch up the moon…36.40
Allah subjected the sun and the moon to follow a course…39.5
The sun and the moon follow exact courses calculated…55.5
The moon follows the sun…91:1, 2

"He coils the night upon the day and He coils the day upon the night" (Quran 39:5).

Have you not seen how God merges the night into the day and merges the day into the night?" (Quran 31:29).

The sun and moon go around the earth, nether of them can catch up or pass each other, back then they believed that the moon and sun had the same orbit, there only idea for what a eclipses was that is was a bad sign from god I believe.

Volume 2 Number 167:
The sun eclipsed and the Prophet got up, being afraid that it might be the Hour (i.e. Day of Judgement). He went to the Mosque and offered the prayer with the longest Qiyam, bowing and prostration that I had ever seen him doing. Then he said, 'These signs which Allah sends do not occur because of the life or death of somebody, but Allah makes His worshipers afraid by them. So when you see anything thereof, proceed to remember Allah, invoke Him and ask for His forgiveness.'

But why is there no talk of the earths orbit?



According to Muhammad the Earth was flat and there are several verses as well as hadithes that confirm this belief.

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." (18:86)

Then followed he (another) way, (18:89)

Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun. (18:90)

One does not have to go another way to the other end of the world to find it rising. This gives an idea that Muhammad, just like the people of his time believed that the Earth is flat and the sun moves in the sky rising from one place and setting in another.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421
Narrated Abu Dhar:
The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing."


Clearly describe a flat Earth, where the sun rises from one side of it and sets in the murky waters on the opposite side? Is there a Throne somewhere that the sun goes under it and gets permission? What Throne is he talking about? Is it the same Throne of God that is placed over the waters? When and how the sun prostrates itself? The Earth is spherical; can anybody look out and see any Throne anywhere? Has anybody noticed where in the sky the sun stops to ask permission?












The heavens were on top of the earth like a canopy over the flat earth –

Allah made heavens as canopy…21:32

"Verily! Allah grasps the heavens and the Earth lest they move away from their places,…" (35:41)

"It is god who has made for you the Earth as a resting place and sky as a canopy" (02:22)





When all of the quotes are separate they can be misquotes and misinterpreted where ghum on this thread has shown (his post has disappeared), where they say this is talking about a black hole or the universe is expanding. I have shown clearly that the earth is flat, which is fixed, where the sun goes around the flat fixed earth, where heaven is on top like a canopy.

Not only that but this has been held by many muslims in history, even the supreme religous authority of saudi arabia believe the earth was flat, this can be searched around the web. What would make this educated men of islam think the earth is flat?

“the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdel-Aziz Ibn Baaz” who, in 1993, “issued an edict, or fatwa, declaring that the world is flat. Anyone of the round persuasion does not believe in God and should be punished”. Arrogance? Scientists are amateurs in arrogance.

``In 1993, the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdel-Aziz ibn Baaz, issued a edict, or fatwah, declaring that the world is flat. Anyone of the round persuasion does not believe in God and should be punished.''

"The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment." Yousef M. Ibrahim, "Muslim Edicts take on New Force", The New York Times, February 12, 1995, p. A-14.

[maharaja]

who gives a fuck about what religion's say, we all know the earth is round.

[angrynacho]

Remember kids, the more random shit you can copy and paste, the smarter you are!

[vaatyaar]

Originally Posted by angrynacho

Remember kids, the more random shit you can copy and paste, the smarter you are!

LOL! I'm not sure what brij's goal is here, considering the audience is here to rate looks.

[Vision350z]

Originally Posted by angrynacho

Remember kids, the more random shit you can copy and paste, the smarter you are!

brij is being a fuckin moron. he has absolutely no respect for other people's beliefs. if you're gonna fuckin provide us with your opinions, then do so in a way that it won't offend people. i completely agree with nacho. too many people quote stuff about the Qur'an from sites that are against Islam.....

take a hike pal

[WildWolfdog]

All of this suggests that the earth is flat.

Who are you to interpret what the Quran "SUGGESTS or NOT SUGGESTS"? The verses are correct but what is said before and after that can you please provide us with that too? IT never says anywhere straightforwardly "the earth is flat". I think in ur version since it said "like a carpet" (even though there aren't any brackets in the quran)" God should've said "earth is flat like a carpet"

Clearly mountains were basically pegs to hold the earth, to stablize it, maybe so it doesn’t tip over or shake as it is heavy and holds the earth down, this can only make sense if the earth is flat.

LOLOL is THAT in the quran too or are you giving us ur version again? By the way if Allah was discussing how the earth is flat and how the mountains are holding them down as pegs, shouldn't the verses be right after one another? Instead of all the verses being in completely different surahs altogether. Even the ones from the same surahs are no where near one another.

Of course the earth does not move, it is flat, it is fixed. Of course there is no orbit of the earth this is way there is no mention of it in the quran, but there is an orbit mentioned for the moon and sun as they go around the flat earth.

The Quran is not a science text book.

The sun and moon go around the earth, nether of them can catch up or pass each other, back then they believed that the moon and sun had the same orbit, there only idea for what a eclipses was that is was a bad sign from god I believe.

You keep gettin dumber and dumber. Where does it say the earth and moon go around the earth? The verses say they "follow their own courses" but i never saw the earth being mentioned, yet another one of ur made up theories

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." (18:86)

Then followed he (another) way, (18:89)

Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun. (18:90)

One does not have to go another way to the other end of the world to find it rising. This gives an idea that Muhammad, just like the people of his time believed that the Earth is flat and the sun moves in the sky rising from one place and setting in another.

LOL ahahaha what the fuck are you talkin about dude? Does it say that Muhammad went from one side to another to find out the shape of the earth? You are probably the king of taking things out of context and not understanding metaphors.

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing."


Clearly describe a flat Earth, where the sun rises from one side of it and sets in the murky waters on the opposite side? Is there a Throne somewhere that the sun goes under it and gets permission? What Throne is he talking about? Is it the same Throne of God that is placed over the waters? When and how the sun prostrates itself? The Earth is spherical; can anybody look out and see any Throne anywhere? Has anybody noticed where in the sky the sun stops to ask permission?

Haha has the concept of the sun rising from one side and setting on the other and then continuing this cycle over and over ever come into ur mind. Maybe that's what he was talking about. Why would the prophet suddenly start talking about the shape of the earth when he is talking about the sun rising n setting.

Not only that but this has been held by many muslims in history, even the supreme religous authority of saudi arabia believe the earth was flat, this can be searched around the web. What would make this educated men of islam think the earth is flat?

LOL haha you're such a fucking moron. I believe until Christopher Columbus discoeverd America, the whole world believed the earth was flat. As well, there were several theories that the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun revolved around the earth? ARISTOTLE? I'm sure the whole world followed the religion of islam at the time and hence believed it to be true? I'm sure you will find some link which tries to prove this theory as well.

[brij]

LOL! I'm not sure what brij's goal is here, considering the audience is here to rate looks.

My point was to show ghum an error of the quran, but he has seemed to have left.

brij is being a fuckin moron. he has absolutely no respect for other people's beliefs. if you're gonna fuckin provide us with your opinions, then do so in a way that it won't offend people. i completely agree with nacho. too many people quote stuff about the Qur'an from sites that are against Islam.....

take a hike pal

Yes I have no respect for peoples belief who believe having sex with a 9 year old is justified, that killing non-believers because they are simply non-believers, I have no respect for people who believe illegal sexual intercourse and thief is not an act sinful enough to go to hell, I have no respect for people who kill, beat, harm others because there belief allows them too.

Who are you to interpret what the Quran "SUGGESTS or NOT SUGGESTS"? The verses are correct but what is said before and after that can you please provide us with that too? IT never says anywhere straightforwardly "the earth is flat". I think in ur version since it said "like a carpet" (even though there aren't any brackets in the quran)" God should've said "earth is flat like a carpet"

I have shown with many quotes what it is suggesting, I have put it all together to show what it is saying, please refute it, provide quotes which show otherwise.

LOLOL is THAT in the quran too or are you giving us ur version again? By the way if Allah was discussing how the earth is flat and how the mountains are holding them down as pegs, shouldn't the verses be right after one another? Instead of all the verses being in completely different surahs altogether. Even the ones from the same surahs are no where near one another.

Have you never read the quran? The quran does not put everything together, go to Islamic websites, they do not have everything together.

The Quran is not a science text book.

I know its not a science book, the quran has nearly no scientific knowledge, there is no detail or subject that it focuses on. It’s a surprise, especially when many muslims and websites claim the quran talks about the big bang, expanding universe, evolution, ect.

You keep gettin dumber and dumber. Where does it say the earth and moon go around the earth? The verses say they "follow their own courses" but i never saw the earth being mentioned, yet another one of ur made up theories

I have shown that the sun and moon have there orbits, and that they are not allowed to pass each other, that the moon follows the sun, and that when it is underneath that it goes to the throne, where it waits for permission to go back round the earth.

LOL ahahaha what the fuck are you talkin about dude? Does it say that Muhammad went from one side to another to find out the shape of the earth? You are probably the king of taking things out of context and not understanding metaphors.

Iam talking about the sun, the sun is going around because that’s what they believed back then because the earth is flat.

Haha has the concept of the sun rising from one side and setting on the other and then continuing this cycle over and over ever come into ur mind. Maybe that's what he was talking about. Why would the prophet suddenly start talking about the shape of the earth when he is talking about the sun rising n setting.

Again the same thing.

LOL haha you're such a fucking moron. I believe until Christopher Columbus discoeverd America, the whole world believed the earth was flat. As well, there were several theories that the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun revolved around the earth? ARISTOTLE? I'm sure the whole world followed the religion of islam at the time and hence believed it to be true? I'm sure you will find some link which tries to prove this theory as well.

I have asked you a simple question why have you ignored it, what would make the religous authority of saudi Arabia believe the earth is flat?

I have shown clearly that the earth is flat, which is fixed, where the sun goes around the flat fixed earth, where heaven is on top like a canopy.

Why would allah describe the earth like a carpet, expanded, spread out, a expanse, but not bother to say it is a sphere?
Why would allah put mountains as pegs, firm, unshakeable, when they are clearly not?
Why would allah make the earth fixed abode, immovable from there places when it is clearly not?
Why would allah talk about the moon and suns orbit, but not the earths, the moon follows the sun, that they have fixed orbits, that it enters a throne where it requires to rise again?
Why would allah talk about heaven as a canopy over the earth, when we can clearly see there is no heaven but millions of light years of space?
Why does this show the same cosmology that people believed in thousands of years ago?

All of this shows that there is an error in its cosmology, it shows that same idea of what people believed in the past.

[ShivaChrist]

Way to go, brij... you take the time to go over all the reasons that make it less then perfect that I have trouble on (I'm not much of a researcher).

[ArTmALik]

If thers something written in Quran then i assure u Thats the Truth.Everything which is said by Allah in Quran..science is going to prove that.Maybe the time hasent come yet but One day sceince will.
Dude i suggest u to read Quran urself..Once u read the Whole Quran urself u r going to find out What Allah is all about.
And u can read a book Science and Quran.
That will help u to understand Quran.

[NumbaOneStunna]

I like the stuff in the brackets, last time i checked the Quran had no brackets.

[maria24]

The translated editions of the Quran are not considered to be the Quran - they are simply VERSIONS of it.

The Quran in its original arabic form is perfection.

[brij]

If thers something written in Quran then i assure u Thats the Truth.Everything which is said by Allah in Quran..science is going to prove that.Maybe the time hasent come yet but One day sceince will.
Dude i suggest u to read Quran urself..Once u read the Whole Quran urself u r going to find out What Allah is all about.
And u can read a book Science and Quran.
That will help u to understand Quran.

You assure me it’s the truth? Do you believe that is enough to assure? You should be able to prove that it’s the truth. Science is not here for religion, science is based on proof and evidence, it tries to investigate, examine, analyses, study, observe, ect. Religion on the other hand is based on blind faith, of demons and devils, of angels, heaven and hell.

I like the stuff in the brackets, last time i checked the Quran had no brackets.

The translated editions of the Quran are not considered to be the Quran - they are simply VERSIONS of it.

The Quran in its original arabic form is perfection.

And this proves the perfection of the quran? Below are the English translations of the quran by muslims, I have posted the website which has these different translations to be fair on what they are saying, I have not found anything that shows that they are disputed by a islamic religious authority. This excuse can be used for all religions holy books from the bible, torah, to the bhagavad gita. I have posted what the cosmology of the quran is saying and have even posted proof that the religious authority of Saudi Arabia believed the earth was flat, I have asked questions in my pervious post where no one has answered, why is it the cosmology of the quran matches the same as the people in the past? Because the translations I have posted are all wrong? I have taken translations that are not disputed, they are even used by islamic websites. Maybe the muslims around the world who have been born and bread on there qurans and converted due to the many different translations around the world should be told that there particular quran that they believe is perfect is not perfect.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/reference.html


Pickthall Muhammad Marmaduke William Pickthall
The Meaning of the Glorious Qur'an
London, 1930

Yusuf Ali Abdullah Yusuf Ali
The Holy Qur'an: Translation and Commentary
Lahore, 1934 and 1937
Saudi Revision: The Holy Qur-an: English translation of the meanings and Commentary

Al-Hilali & Khan Interpretation of the Meanings of
The Noble Qur'an
In the English Language
A Summarized Version of At-Tabari, Al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir with Comments from Sahih Al-Bukhari
By Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali, Ph.D and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan
Darussalam Publishers and Distributors, Riyad, Saudi Arabia
Twenty-Third Revised Edition, August 1998

Shakir The Holy Qur'an
translated by Mohammad Habib Shakir
Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc., 1983

M. Sarwar The Holy Qur'an
by Sheikh Muhammad Sarwar (Translator)
Islamic Seminary, Elmhurst, June 1981

Malik Al-Qur'an, the Guidance for Mankind
English with Arabic Text
by Muhammad Farooq-i-Azam Malik
The Institute of Islamic Knowledge, 1997


Now my questions again -

What would make the religous authority of saudi Arabia believe the earth is flat?
Why would allah describe the earth like a carpet, expanded, spread out, a expanse, but not bother to say it is a sphere?
Why would allah put mountains as pegs, firm, unshakeable, when they are clearly not?
Why would allah make the earth fixed abode, immovable from there places when it is clearly not?
Why would allah talk about the moon and suns orbit, but not the earths, the moon follows the sun, that they have fixed orbits, that it enters a throne where it requires to rise again?
Why would allah talk about heaven as a canopy over the earth, when we can clearly see there is no heaven but millions of light years of space?
Why does this show the same cosmology that people believed in thousands of years ago?

[maria24]

Actually, no - my statement was not trying to prove your arguments invalid. I was simply stating that the translations are mere editions and not the Holy Quran itself.

Once again, the Quran is perfection.

[deception]

Originally Posted by maria24

Once again, the Quran is perfection.

how would u know what perfection is, when your senses are fundamentally imperfect?

[Obdurate]

Originally Posted by deception

how would u know what perfection is, when your senses are fundamentally imperfect?

It is an idea I rely on.

[kaz716]

go read the Quran, the english translation isn't that perfect, so i suggest you go first learn to speak and understand arabic and then read the quran knowing what you are reading without relying on the english translations..and Allah refers to the word as a carpet but doesn't literally mean it like that, example saying the hand of god in verses, it doesn't literally mean hand of god, it's an expression..don't take everything into completle sense of how it's written, things such as those verses you have brought forth are nothing but expressions.

[kaz716]

Originally Posted by maria24

The translated editions of the Quran are not considered to be the Quran - they are simply VERSIONS of it.

The Quran in its original arabic form is perfection.

exactly what i just said..learn arabic and go read the actual arabic of the Quran, if you read the arabic knowing what you are reading you will then know that the Quran is the perfect book and that it contains no false at all

[deception]

Originally Posted by kaz716

exactly what i just said..learn arabic and go read the actual arabic of the Quran, if you read the arabic knowing what you are reading you will then know that the Quran is the perfect book and that it contains no false at all

ideas are cold, we humans are warm blooded mammals so don't get attached to ideas because u might catch a cold.

[Obdurate]

Originally Posted by deception

ideas are cold, we humans are warm blooded mammals so don't get attached to ideas because u might catch a cold.

Without ideas, that cold would be incurable.