The Truth about the Gulf war

[Khal]

TRUTH Behind the Gulf War Sydnrome
Gulf War Syndrome, Biological Warfare Conducted on US Military Members, and Corporate Bio-Genocide Levied on the Planetary Population

A Lecture By Captain Joyce Riley in Houston, Texas on Jan 15, 1996
Transcript by Leading Edge Research Group
P.O. Box 7530, Yelm, Washington 98597
World Wide Web http://www.cco.net/~trufax E-Mail trufax@cco.net
With Editorial Commentary by Val Valerian


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Introduction
(Applause) Thank you so very much. I am Joyce Riley, and I am here because I love my God and I love my country, and I love my fellow man. We are going to hear a story tonight that unfortunately is the saddest story, not only of the 20th century, but of America's history. You are going to hear about the destruction of the United States military. I am sorry to have to bring you this story. I wish it wasn't true. I wish that I could protect you from what you are going to hear tonight, because it has taken me a year to investigate this story. During that time, I went through the worst depression you can imagine. I finally came to the conclusion one day that - yes, our country had provided the biologicals to Saddam Hussein that were used on our troops. Our troops are sick and they are dying.

My story started in 1991, when I decided to go back to the Air Force Reserve. I had been stationed in the late 1970's in New York State, and I had been involved as a flight nurse in the Air Force. I got out and was living my life, but then I heard that there was a war and that many of our men were going to die if they didn't have adequate care, and that they needed trained flight nurses. So, I decided to back into the service of my country. I went back to Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio and I volunteered to go to Saudi Arabia. As it was, I didn't go to Saudi Arabia because the cease-fire came, so I served active duty missions on a C-130 aircraft for about six months. After that, I returned back to Houston to my job, where I was a heart, lung, kidney and liver transplant nurse in Houston, Texas. I became very ill and I could get no answers. I didn't know why I was sick. No one would talk with me about it. No one would help me with it, and I had to find out the answers myself, alone.

The Problem
So, I began the investigation myself to answer the question of why I was sick. I didn't even go to the Persian Gulf. They call it the Persian Gulf disease and the Persian Gulf Registry. They do that for a reason, because then they can exclude all of us who are sick who didn't go to the Persian Gulf. Well, I didn't go and I was still sick, and I wanted to know why. The only thing I had in common with those who did go is that I had received the immunizations and that I had a lot of contact with Gulf War veterans who were returning back to the states, and with other members of our unit. Little did we know at the time that the biologicals that were used were impregnated in the equipment they had, such as tents and duffle bags. It was being spread to all of us and we didn't even know it. We were being told a lie. America, I am sorry to tell you that we have been told one of the biggest lies this country has ever perpetrated upon us. They are telling us there is no Gulf War disease. They are telling us biologicals were not used. They are not even telling you that between 10,000 to 12,000 Gulf war vets have already died. [Ed. As at December, 1996 the US Government figure is 20,000].

I began my investigation and I went into depression the day I realized we had been lied to. I had been involved with President Bush and with the White House, because I had been involved in organ transplantation. I wrote a letter and called the White House and invited him to come to Houston with Dr. Cooley to sign an organ donor card. He and Barbara did accept the invitation, and I met with them, and they signed an organ donor card. President Bush told me at the time that "I appreciate what you are doing. If this had been available years ago, perhaps my daughter Robin might not have died." He told me that. Well, little did I know that during that same time they were making the poisons that were going to eventually kill us. At the end of the program, I am going to play an open letter I wrote to President Bush. He lives in Houston, as do all of the players in what you are about to hear tonight. They all reside in Houston.

I do believe that the Lord gave me this story to tell, because a nurse from Houston, Texas just doesn't "come across" this information - that biological warfare has been perpetrated on the American people. I knew when I heard the story that I had to move on it. I had to let Americans know. I would not be quiet, because you see I knew that the government was actively covering it up.

What I am going to show you tonight is not opinion. It is not conjecture. It is proof. I am going to show you documentation on the overhead projector - the evidence to support what I am saying to you.

The basic fact is that biological agents were used on our troops. Chemical agents were used on our troops. Germ warfare was used on our troops - using biologicals that were made in the United States of America. It was made in Houston, Texas and Boca Raton, Florida. It was passed through the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and through companies such as American Type Culture Collection (ATCC) in Maryland. It was passed to Saddam Hussein - sold to Saddam Hussein, as late as 1989. Just prior to the war. The American government was involved in the provision of biological warfare (components) to Saddam Hussein. They knew exactly what they were doing. Our troops did not know what to expect, nor were they protected. We later found out that we had no adequate biological/chemical detection capability. The lies are going on and on. I released the story on my radio show on May 4, 1995 with Drs. Garth and Nancy Nicholson. We had security in the studio because I had made the mistake of sending out some news releases in advance. I was afraid that we would be stopped from doing the program. We had someone there to argue a temporary restraining order, if necessary. But, we didn't need it. Drs. Garth and Nancy Nicholson named names, places and times. The sad part is that it is real. When I heard them naming names and places, I thought "oh, my word. I'm going to have ten lawyers on my door tomorrow."

No one showed up. No one has come to me and said, "you shouldn't be saying this". The reason being that they don't want to fight me in court. They know its true. So, what I am going to show you tonight is absolute evidence of the saddest story in American history.

A Letter
I am going to start with a letter written to me from a young man in Wichita, Kansas. It begins, "please forgive me for not writing sooner. I have been out of town on the job. My only hope is to reach other vets and the public to let them know it is true and many of us are dying from this illness. I will not give up until we are recognized and taken care of by our government, who continues to blackball us on this endless journey." That is one Gulf War veteran who understands, and I have received so many phone calls it has been impossible to return them.

At our unit at Kelly Air Force base, we were very spirited, with a mission to fulfill. We were going to take care of that mission. Well, unfortunately, it was not the way it was. Let's go back in time and look at a little history. I am going to show you a lot of information that is incredibly important. You must understand that America has been doing this for a long period of time. It has been experimenting on both civilians and military members.

1970 Vaccine "Safety" Tests at the University of Maryland
(Slide Shown) This is a 1970 article that appeared in a newspaper in Maryland (reads article): "Research volunteers. Volunteers needed for 30 day in-patient vaccine safety tests. Very pleasant environment. Pay $20 per day. Call the University of Maryland." One lady did call that number and was involved in those tests. She is very ill today. They experimented on her. That was not the first time that experimentation was done.

(Slide Shown) This is another article that appeared: "University of Maryland may have tested drugs for the CIA." How many of you are familiar with MKULTRA? It involved the experimental use of LSD on the public without their knowledge. I'll read a little more of this article. "The Central Intelligence Agency has notified the University of Maryland that the school may have been involved in so-called mind-bending tests and drug experiments sponsored by the agency between 1953 and 1964. The University is about one of eighty institutions that conducted experiments under a program code-named MKULTRA." It goes on to identify where the tests were done, and states that they are now going to protect all the researchers involved with the program. They want to provide the researchers with confidentiality. However, those that were experimented upon do not even know they were involved in a test. "Critics disclose that human subjects did not know what they were getting either before or after the tests, and both the Army and the institutions involved said they did not follow up on the personnel." Now, I want you to notice here that the people involved in this were 44 colleges, 15 research foundations or chemical companies, 12 hospitals and three prisons. Now, we are going to go into prisons in just a few minutes as far as how it was tested on the prisoners.

1970 Appropriation of Money to Create Human Immune Deficiency Virus
(Slide Shown) Another document that I want you to remember as long as you live is this. This document appeared on my fax machine. I believe it to be the origin of the appropriation of the money to make the AIDS virus [Editor note: See Matrix III Volume One]. This is the appropriations hearing for 1970 for the Department of Defense. It is House Bill 15090. I want you to see that the Department of Defense appropriated $10 million in 1970 to make a synthetic biological agent. Ask yourself why the Department of Defense needs this kind of agent. There are two things about the field of biological agents I would like to mention. One is the possibility of technological surprise. It says that "we believe that within a period of five to ten years, it would be possible to produce a synthetic biological agent that does not naturally exist and for which no natural immunity could have been acquired." What does that sound like to you? It goes on down here to say, "within the next five to ten years, it would probably be possible to make a new ineffective microorganism which could be different in certain important aspects from any known disease-causing organism. Most importantly, it might be damaging to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease." Basically this says it will destroy the immune system. This was appropriated in 1970. In 1975 the first recorded "AIDS" related death occurred. Perfect timing. It goes on to say, "a research program to explore feasibility could be completed in approximately five years at a cost of $10 million." Now, look at this part down here, which says, "it is a highly controversial issue and there are many who believe such research should not be undertaken, lest it lead to yet another method of mass killing of large populations." That is in your government documentation. Now, getting involved with killing of large numbers of people is not what a government is for. I want you to get this document. Get this House Bill.

What the Government and Media Say About Gulf War Syndrome
What is the US Government saying about the Gulf War? This is an 1996 article from Time Magazine that says, "No Gas Used Against the Troops." What is the government propaganda saying? They are saying that "there is no scientific or medical evidence that chemical or biological weapons were deployed at any level against us." That is an absolute lie. I will show you proof that they knew that chemical and biological agents were used. After my radio show, an article came out in the Houston Chronicle which said, "Gulf War Syndrome Doesn't Exist". Now, here we have a documented number of Gulf War veterans that have already died, and they come out and say there is no Gulf War illness. There is something really wrong. Now, you didn't hear much about the Gulf War illness for about four years, until the Nicholsons went forward with this information. Here is another article from the Washington Times, "Pentagon Says There Is No Gulf War Disease." That article also came out shortly after we went on the air. The Los Angeles Times, "Government Study of Veterans Finds No Evidence of Gulf War Disease."

Now, let's look at the documentation from the Persian Gulf Veterans Coordinating Board, which is nothing but cover-up information. They are not telling the veterans the truth. They told us that they contacted every one of us to see if we were sick. No one contacted us. I have not heard of any person being contacted. But, look at this. A million men and women went to the Gulf. That's a large number of people. Why do we need to go over there in the first place? What were we doing over there? I am not sure.

What Was Really Behind the Gulf War: Malthusian Population Reduction
[Editor Note: The reason for the Gulf War, upon analysis, was threefold. It was to infect the US military and subsequently the US and world population, and secondly to reacquire Kuwait oil fields, which are owned by a well-known family in London, and thirdly to test weaponry on Iraq, to whom factions sold weapons to be used against our own troops. Part of the cover-up involved with Gulf War syndrome is also meant to conceal the fact that President Bush and other members of his administration held stock in some of the biotech companies that produced the biological weapons used against US troops and shipped to Iraq. Another part of the cover-up involves conventional arms, specifically a company known as US Arms, who sold Iraq conventional weapons to be used against US troops. Former Secretary of Agriculture Ron Brown, who was in the aircraft that was blown up in Bosnia, was on the board of Directors of US Arms. Four individuals on the plane were to testify in an upcoming hearing. Traces of thermite, denoting explosives, were found on the bodies. Thirty-seven people were murdered. President Clinton recently claimed Executive Privilege as a reason for not disclosing certain documents to Congress relating to arms shipments to Iraq. Do you understand, yet? Other reasons for securing the area involved control of vital earth grid points in Southern Iraq. Interestingly, there are also large underground facilities in the Middle East, some of them of rather ancient, and alien, origin, which still today contain high-tech equipment].

50% of Gulf War Veterans Are No Longer in the Service - More Than 10,000 Are Dead
A million Gulf War vets went, and a million of them have the potential of being sick. I will tell you a little bit why later. By their own admission, some 697,000 active duty service members and some 180,000 national guard went to the Gulf. What they say now is that 489,000 of them have since separated from the military. Now, ask yourself why in an all-volunteer force, after a war, would 50% of the individuals involved get out of the military? It is not a statistic that even makes sense. One out every two have gotten out of the military since Desert Storm? I wonder why. Possibly because they had to, because they were sick and were forced out.

This is another figure that scares me. To date, the VA reports that more than 489,400 Gulf War veterans have received medical care in VA facilities. One out of every two. Ask yourself why. You don't go to the VA unless you have no where else to go.

Here is another item that was faxed to me from the VA. You see here that by their own admission they say that 5,729 Gulf War veterans have died since the war. We know the figure is now between 10,000 to 12,000.

Clinton-appointed Chairman of Joint Chiefs and Secretary of Defense Lie in 1994 About Presence of Chemical and Biological Weapons in the Gulf
This is an item that came out from Chief of Staff Shalikashvilli and Secretary William Perry. This letter came out May 24, 1994. It says, "There have been reports in the press of the possibility that some of you were exposed to biological weapons agents. There is no information, classified or unclassified, that indicates that chemical or biological weapons were used in the Persian Gulf. There have also been reports that some veterans believe there are restrictions on what they can say about potential exposures. Anybody attached to CBW units needs to know that they are free to speak now. You should not feel constrained to discuss these issues." The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Secretary of Defense say there were no chemical or biological weapons used. In fact, there is plenty of evidence. It has already been presented on the floor of the Senate, and I am going to show it to you. [ Editor Note: Here she is referring to the Reigle Report. We might also remind you that the father of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was in the Nazi SS].

Active Duty Military Intimidated Into Silence
I was approached at one point in time by someone who lead me to Drs. Garth and Nancy Nicholson, who are heroes in my mind. They are both Ph.D. scientists at the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center. Their daughter was in the 101st Airborne that did deep insertions into Iraq. Many of the 101st Airborne have called me and many of them are sick. The 82nd Airborne is sick. Men and women at Fort Hood, Texas are sick. Camp Pendleton. Camp LeJeune. Fort Riley is really sick right now. These people are not allowed to talk about this in the military. They are not allowed to tell people about the Gulf War Illness. They are not allowed to admit to it. I have even visited Gulf War vets at Brook Army Medical Hospital, and they are not even allowed to talk about it. I took some Gulf War information over there and the patients had to hide it so the doctors would not see it. So, the Nicholson's daughter came back from Iraq sick. She gave the disease to the family - to Garth and Nancy, who live in Houston, and also to the family cat. The cat died. Before the cat died, they tested all of their blood. They found that they were positive for something called Mycoplasma Incognitas, which is the chief biological agent we find to be responsible for a lot of the illness of the veterans.

Mycoplasma Incognitas
I will explain this to you by saying that Mycoplasma Incognitas is between the size of a bacteria and a virus. It travels through a population, and as long as your immune system is all right it will not affect you. But, according to the Nicholson's, who are both Ph.D. cellular biologists, they found that the scientists who were involved in this horrible plot inserted 40% of the HIV envelope gene into the Mycoplasma. What this means is that it doesn't give you HIV, but it gives you the symptoms. So, they found this and realized that they had a germ warfare agent on their hands. It is the first biological agent identified. There have been others.

US Government Refuses to Dispense Known Treatment to Affected People
The Nicholson's went to the laboratory to discover how to treat this. They found that an antibiotic called Doxycycline was the most effective. The United States military will not allow military members under their control to have Doxycycline or VA hospitals to dispense Doxycycline. They are simply not allowed to have it. I got a call from a Special Forces commander who had been retired for one year. He said, "I have had it. I came home. I served my country. I got my blood sent to Dr. Nicholson for free testing and got my prescription for Doxycycline. I went to have it filled and not only did that take away my military ID card, but they would not allow me to have the Doxycycline to save my life." You see, the disease is contagious, and now the wives and children are getting it. It is going to affect you in the general population. That is why it is so important to understand how serious this is. It is not just the United States. It is a worldwide program. There were 28 countries that served with the United States in Iraq. All 28 countries now report that their men and women are also sick. But Drs. Garth and Nancy Nicholson revealed that a Houston company was involved in the manufacture of a biological weapon that was sold to Iraq and was used on American soldiers in the Gulf War. Since we came out with the names of these companies, there have been lawsuits filed against those corporations.

Symptoms of the Syndrome
These are the symptoms of the syndrome. You may look at this and it may not seem very significant to you, so if you look at aching joints and go to your doctor and say "I have aching joints" or you say "I have chronic fatigue", or you say "I don't have the memory I used to", they will not say anything. When I am talking about memory loss, I am talking about the kind where you have to wear a beeper so your family can find you. One young man told me, "I can only remember today. I can't remember what happened yesterday." He was 27 years old. We are talking about a problem known as night sweats. Any Gulf War veteran who has the Mycoplasma knows about night sweats. You have to change your linens twice a night. The muscle spasms get so bad that you can't stand it and people scream in pain. There is also loss of eyesight, breathing problems, and chest pains because the Mycoplasma settles in the atrium of the heart. All of these are problems that become worse.

The problem is that the government is telling the people of the United States "there is no Gulf War Illness". The doctors in this country think there is no Gulf War Illness. So, when people come in and complain about the symptoms, they are turned aside and told that the problem is psychological in nature.

Deformed Children Caused by US Corporate Genocide
Now, you are not being told about the babies that are being born deformed. There is a Gulf War Baby Foundation formed to register babies who have contracted the syndrome. There are so many that are being born deformed. You are not being told about this. Dan Rather doesn't tell you about it, does he? No. And so, you think that if it isn't on the nightly news it must not be true, right? If a tree falls in the forest and Dan Rather doesn't cover it, does it still make a noise? Think about it.

Gulf War babies are severely deformed. In fact, according to Nation Magazine, "studies have shown that 67% of babies born to Gulf War veterans are deformed. What have they done to our future generations? What have they done to their DNA?

There was an article that appeared in Life Magazine in November 1995 featuring a man in the 82nd Airborne at Fort Brag, North Carolina. This young man has a child with no arms and no legs. I know of a nurse in San Antonio who knows of 50 children like this.

When our soldiers risked their lives in the Gulf, they never imagined that their children would face these consequences or that their country would turn its back on them. You are hearing what perhaps 1% of the country knows today. It will take your help to get this story out. There is no way these parents can afford to take care of these children. (Shows pictures of children).

The Reigle Reports and Congressional Knowledge About the Problem Covered Up
This is something that the government is trying to keep you from knowing about. The Reigle report is evidence that biological and chemical weapons were used on our troops. It was presented to the United States Senate, but it has been withheld from you. They don't want you to see it. A news release went out that Senator Reigle from Michigan was a brave man for doing this. He is no longer in the Senate. He had to pay for the report to be done. The Feb 1994 news release said, "Reigle Uncovers US Shipment of Biological Warfare Materials to Iraq Prior to Gulf War". The release went on to say, "there is evidence of transmission to family members. I am deeply troubled that the United States permitted the sale of deadly biological agents to a country with a known biological warfare program."

There is no blood ban stopping Gulf War veterans from donating blood to the general blood supply that the general population uses. Reigle also sent a letter to Secretary of Defense Perry on Feb 9, 1994 and talked about the exposure of Gulf War veterans and the transmission of the disease to spouses and children. He found out that we had been exporting these biological substances through ATCC. This information is known to every Senator that was in office in 1994. Why aren't they doing something about it. Why weren't you told about it? Reigle also said to Secretary Perry, "without proper treatment and testing, their condition will worsen. They cannot wait. Many are now destitute, with their savings spent on medical care not provided by the government.

According to Senator Reigle, "the Department of Defense refuses to acknowledge any part of the problem. Their blanket denials are not credible. To my mind, there is no more serious crime than an official military cover-up of facts that could prevent more effective diagnosis and treatment of sick US veterans. It is an astonishing example that the Defense Department is going to deny reality."

The Veterans Administration is not treating Gulf War veterans, but only monitoring their blood to see how well the biological warfare agents worked. They are not treating the Gulf War veterans. (Here she details the bacteriological substance shipped. See attachment from the Reigle Report at the end of this transcript).

Proof of Chemical Weapon Use from the Schwartzkoff NBC Log
(Slide Shown) Here is how we know the biologicals were used. What I am showing you was once a classified document. It is part of the Chemical-Biological log that belonged to General Norman Schwartzkoff in CENTCOM. He was responsible for central command. The NBC log is sort of a roadmap of the war and what transpired. You can see here that it says, "Colonel Dunn has confirmed that the soldiers of the 3rd AD have blisters, characteristic of mustard chemical agent, on upper and lower arms." Remember the official statement? "No Biological or Chemical Weapons Used". The log continues, "ARCENT advised that casualty happened on afternoon of 28 Feb, a reddening of the skin and small blisters." I want you to know that I talked to several of the MEDIVAC flight nurses who accompanied the troops out of the theater of operations, and they told me that many of the men had no skin on them, that their skin was falling off. Evidence of a chemical burn. So, this is known information. Some of the autopsies done at Dover, Delaware found that some of the deaths were due to chemical poisoning.

Schwartzkoff's NBC log continues, "Msgt Blue called. Subject: Commanders Guidance for Disposition of captured chemical and biological munitions." They had captured them and they knew they existed. Continuing, "field destruction is OK, but bulk destruction may have international implications." I have a number of these pages that were released under a FOIA request, and there are about 100 pages that were released to the Gulf War Veterans of Georgia. My hat is off to all the Gulf War Veterans that have been trying to take this message to the public for the last four years.

(Slide Shown) Anybody who was in Desert Storm knows what these are. The little "PB" pills which are a pre-treatment pill for a nerve agent. In other words, if you were going to be affected by a nerve agent such as Soman, you would take this pill in advance and it was supposed to help you. However, you should never take this unless you actually are affected, because it builds up in the body and it creates many problems.

International Media Comes to the US to Investigate
(Slide Shown) This is an article that came out of the Sunday Times in London. The BBC has been over here investigating this quite heavily because they have so many people in England that are sick from all of this. The Italian equivalent to "60 Minutes" has been over here filming on the subject, because the Italian soldiers are sick also. It's country after country.

US Companies Sold Iraq New Genocidal Anthrax Toxin
This is why I am scared about what is going on with the biological warfare. It hasn't stopped, because Saddam Hussein still has these things. Reading the Sunday Times article, we see that "Russia has developed a powerful new poison with no antidote that could be used in biological weapons. It is a variation of the anthrax toxin that causes death within days. It has been genetically engineered to make it resistant to antibiotics. The toxin is so powerful that a tiny amount that would fit on a pinhead would theoretically kill 500,000 people." Can you imagine what that would do to the WATER SUPPLY? Saddam Hussein had thousands of pounds of this substance that was given to him by United States companies.

Veteran Medical Files Destroyed or Missing
Guess what happened to our veterans medical files? They are destroyed. There was actually an attorney who was sent to prison for destroying veterans medical files. Many of the medical files of Gulf War veterans are missing. Not only are they missing, but now the proof that they received the vaccinations is now missing.

Gulf War Participants Force-Injected With Experimental Vaccines
Let's talk about how we were affected on the biological side. The first way was with the immunizations. We were given 10 or 11 immunizations prior to going to the gulf. We don't know everything we got. Some of us got sick afterwards. The Anthrax vaccinations were given over in the Gulf, in the theater of operations, and you were forced to submit to it. If you didn't take it, you were court-martialed. People were put into a room like this, the doors were locked, and they had security guards with side arm who stood by while people were forced to take this injection. Why? Why would they do this to people? The Anthrax "vaccine" had not been approved and was experimental. The injection for Botulism was also dangerous. All of these things in combination created a problem.

The Soviet Doctrine: The Biological Cocktail
But, the real problem that we believe to be the main transmission agent was via the SCUD-B and FROG missiles. You see, the SCUD missiles that Hussein used on us had biological and chemical agents in them. When the Patriots shot them down, it rained biological and chemical agents down on the troops. In terms of biological warfare, they used what is called the SOVIET DOCTRINE, in which 18-20 biological agents were mixed together in the tanks of the SCUD missiles. Because the batch contained so many biological agents, it effectively confuses the diagnosis and the treatment process. Now, ask yourself this.

Media Projects Responsibility on Iraq for US Crimes
What is the press coming out and saying? If you read the media, which I hope you don't, you will see an article in the Kansas City Star on October 14th that said, "Iraq Sanctioned", in which they claimed "Iraq lied to us about having and using biological weapons." You know as well as I do that they have satellites in the sky that enable them to see what you are having for dinner. You know they knew what Hussein had, because they sold it to them. Absolutely.

This is what I want you to be watching for, because this is going to be the cover story. They are going to have to deal with the Gulf War illness because so many people have it now. In fact, I will tell you now that because we know that over 10,000 have already died, and we believe 500,000 of our Gulf War veterans to be sick, Dr. Nicholson told me that 20% of the people around the theater of operations (United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, etc.) are now sick. It is coming to a place near you, believe me. The chronic fatigue syndrome. I got a call from a doctor the other day who told me that he has 15 patients with CFS, and they don't know anyone who went to the Gulf War. It's transmissible through sex and through kissing, because it is now found in the dental floss test, where you can see evidence of the mycoplasma. It is communicable and it is going to be growing.

A doctor called me the other day, and he said, "I don't know what's going on. I volunteered to take care of these Gulf War veterans because the VA wouldn't take care of them, and now I'm sick with the same problem. Can you help me understand why I'm sick?" I said, "don't you know its a communicable disease?" He had no idea, because the official position of the US Government is that "there is no Gulf War illness."

Peter Kawaja has been talking about the fact that "GF" was used during the war. Nobody ever mentioned "GF" or even heard of it, except Peter Kawaja, and he kept saying "GF was used." Well, the substance called "GF" is made by the US Department of the Army. The government made it. I have evidence in the government logs of "GF" having been used during the war, but no one ever addressed "GF" until a US News and World Report article came out on September 11, 1995. In this, they have the UN inspector going over to Iraq and inspecting the SCUDS and voicing the "sudden realization" that "Oh, they had all this nasty stuff over there after all that the Iraqis didn't tell us about". Well, I have evidence in a Pentagon report that shows that we knew about it more than 30 days before the war started. The US government knew it was in the SCUDS, because the US companies sold it to Iraq in the first place. It's interesting that in this story the UN inspector is trying to cover himself by saying what he did. The fact that "GF" is mentioned in Schwartzkoff's NBC log also proves the military knew it was there.

The True Origin of The "New" Emerging Biological Diseases is the Biological Cocktail Thrust on the Planet By US Companies, Disguised in the Media as & quot;Mysterious New Diseases" from "Nowhere" In Order to Cover Up Crimes Against Humanity and Genocide.

An article came out in Scientific American in October 1995 that was very fascinating reading. They have to deal with the results of this biological warfare, because too many people are getting sick and too many people are dying. How are they going to deal with it? The title of the article in Scientific American was, "Dangers from new viral plagues." Have you been seeing anything in the newspaper about Dengue fever in South America, or about these "strange" viral hemorragic diseases that are "suddenly attacking us" from "nowhere"? Guess what. They came out of the Gulf War! And, they are now calling it "emerging viruses". Hemorragic fever viruses are among the most dangerous biological agents known. The Ebola virus. You didn't hear about that before the Gulf War, did you?

The article in the Scientific American wants you to believe that all of a sudden we are going to be having all these incredible viruses, all over the world, appearing for no reason at all. Many biologists are saying that they never heard of any of these things before. How many of you ever heard of the Hantavirus before the Gulf War? Remember the Hantavirus in New Mexico, caused by "mouse droppings"? I guess we didn't have mouse droppings before the Gulf War, right? We didn't hear about Ebola before the Gulf War. We didn't hear so much about Chronic Fatigue before the Gulf War. A lot of these things we never had a problem with before the Gulf War. A lot of them were used during that time and supplied by United States companies.

Now, the media tells you "why" we are "going to have this incredible problem." Scientific American tells us, "the primary cause of most cases of hemorragic fever is ecological disruption resulting from human activity." In other words, we cut down too many trees in the rain forest and those bugs are going to get us. That's what they are trying to get you to believe, that it is because of cutting down too many trees in the rain forest. Well, they are calling them hemorragic fever viruses now. I've never heard of hemorragic fever viruses. I've been a nurse for 25 years and I have never heard about them. But, now some of the Gulf War illnesses contain hemorragic fever viruses. Some Gulf War veterans have called me and have said that they are bleeding from every part of their body. It is similar to the Ebola virus, but it takes two years to kill them - slowly. How many of you have seen the movie Outbreak? That is your homework.

Were the 1995 Chicago Heat Wave Deaths Really Something Else?
Why am I concerned about this? I was having lunch with Peter Kawaja, and I noticed this article in USA Today, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Remember when there was that period of incredible heatwaves in Chicago and all these people were dying? Well, look here in this article, where it shows lines of refrigerated trucks brought in to store bodies. Since when did we have so many bodies that we had to put them in trucks? This is the part that concerns me: The bodies were stored in nine donated refrigerated trucks that were to be destroyed after use. Now, if we went and destroyed every hospital and funeral home after a body was in there, we wouldn't have much left, would we? Why would they want to destroy the trucks? Were they contaminated? Was there a disease? I don't know. All I know is that when you read material in the newspaper, check it out very carefully. Ask questions! Don't assume they are telling you the whole story.

US Ships Enough Biological Agents To Iraq to Kill the Entire Planet
(Slide Shown) Now, this was faxed to me by people in Britain. Remember that we said that this new Anthrax toxin could kill 500,000 people with an amount on the head of a pin? United States companies shipped Saddam Hussein 1,500 gallons of Anthrax. It had already been loaded into bombs and missile warheads in Baghdad. Out of 39 tons of biological warfare agents imported by Iraq from the United States, each ton could have produced ten tons of biological warfare material. How much does he need, anyway?

The Post Gulf-War Emergence of Flesh-Eating Bacteria
Over 50,000 US and British troops have suffered symptoms, ranging from broken down immune systems to wasting flesh. How many of you have heard of flesh-eating bacteria? Didn't hear about it before the Gulf War, did you? Wonder why? It's part of it. Some of the Gulf War babies are born with flesh-eating bacteria already hard at work. US Government Increases Budget to Bury Veterans But Denies Them Money for Assistance.

(Slide Shown) This is an article from a British newspaper. It says, "the US Defense Department has increased its budget for burial of Gulf War veterans." They haven't announced this too widely in the United States, have they? That's what they are doing. They are denying the problem exists, denying that biological weapons were used, and increasing the capability to bury people. How can we treat people like this?

The Attempt to Bring George Bush to a War Crimes Tribunal Thwarted by US "Justice" Department in 1993
Did you know that George Bush was almost brought up before a Grand Jury? He was subpoenaed in an illegal export case that involved shipment of biological agents to Saddam Hussein. You didn't know about that, did you? He was. In 1993 the "Justice Department" said, "he doesn't have to do it." George Bush was brought up before a war crimes tribunal. You didn't know about that either, right? Get the book by Ramsey Clark.

Emergence of Post-Gulf War Biological Problems Coincides With Massive National Injection Programs
So, what are we doing in America? We are inoculating everybody. Why? Why is the government so big on inoculating everybody. Every newspaper in the country had a front page color picture of inoculation. They are trying to justify it. Why? In Houston, you can drive down a certain street where they have nurses lined up along the street. You put your arm out the window of the car and they inject you. Why? America, we have to stop holding out our arms to anybody that comes along and says, "We're from the government. We are going to help you. You need this shot". Why do I need this shot? I got too many shots during the Gulf War and I paid dearly for it. I will never do that again. Know your rights.

US Troops Inoculated Before Going to Bosnia Are Coming Down With the Same Symptoms
(Slide Shown) Why does this picture appear in the paper? They are inoculating all the troops going to Bosnia. I am just now starting to get reports from the troops in Bosnia that some of them now have the characteristic rash, which is a cardinal clinical sign of the Gulf War Illness. Its the only sign you can see at this early stage, until they start losing weight, their hair, and start aging.

Many people come to me when they discover that they have this rash. It's a sign of biological and chemical warfare. WE ARE DOING IT TO OUR TROOPS IN BOSNIA.

US Troops Inoculated Before Going to Somalia Are Coming Down With the Same Symptoms
The US troops that are coming back from Somalia are coming back sick, too, with all the same symptoms and problems as the Persian Gulf veterans.

Bush and Clinton "Justice Departments" Refuse to Prosecute Bioweapon Supply Companies Under the Trading With the Enemy Act
Now, I want to show you this. It appeared in Media Bypass recently. It was January 1996. In this issue, Sarah McClendon, who was a wire service person in Washington, has kind of seen the light. She is in her 80's now, but she follows every story. I want you to see what she has written, because she was a "government person" beforehand. And now, I will tell you, that she has truly "changed sides."

She writes, "Proof is building up stronger than ever that big US corporations [Editor Note: The US Government is also a corporation] made the weapons that Saddam Hussein used to kill American soldiers in the Persian Gulf War. These corporations also provided the chemical and biological weapons that the Iraqis used to make thousands of surviving soldiers ill. Both the Bush and Clinton Administration Justice Departments agreed not to prosecute for TRADING WITH THE ENEMY."

[Editor Note: Now, this is an interesting coincidence, because it is exactly what Prescott Bush and the Rockefellers did before and during World War II, when they materially and financially supported the buildup and creation of Nazi Germany, and later Communist Russia, to create extreme forms of National Socialism and International Socialism, in order to anger the planetary population, who would stamp these forms of socialism out and make way for International Corporate Capitalism, which is Global Socialism, or otherwise known as the New World Order. Any good student of history will find the prosecutions levied for Trading With the Enemy on US companies during this period in history. Don't believe any of this? Do your homework! The same people have been at it behind the scenes for the last 60 years doing the same thing. When you then see Operation Paperclip and Project 63 in action for 30 years . . . well, welcome to the covert 4th Reich in disguise. All the research is in Matrix III Volume Two, of what they are doing, how they are doing it and why. Read it and understand. Everything is there.]

You have heard about the Trading With the Enemy Act? Guess who has really been trading with the enemy? Now they are being openly accused of it. The Media Bypass article continues: "The buildup of Iraq's weapons was paid for by US taxpayers, and this business was conducted for years before the Persian Gulf War, and after it started. Such trading with the enemy is tantamount to TREASON. Since when did treason become a civil case? Federal Judge Schub of Atlanta, before whom the case came during the Bush era, said in a phone call to Attorney General Janet Reno, that "anyone who believes there was not grounds for prosecution, has to believe in never-never land."

[Editor note: The Bush era has not ended. How quaint that Judge Schub should call Janet Reno, who herself is guilty of election fraud in Florida, and is a firm believer in never-never land -- without a means of self defense against tyranny, of course. Furthermore, Janet Reno cannot legally hold the position of Attorney General, because she is an agent of a foreign power and works for Interpol, which has been historically connected with rejects from Nazi Germany. Well, another human example of never clone alone, at the very least. It reminds me of the situation in Congress a few years ago when one upset Congressmen referred to others as "Reptilian Bastards"]

By the way, these items for the SCUD missiles that were given to Saddam Hussein were made in Connecticut and in Pittsburgh. The Media Bypass article continues, "Because Iraq defaulted on payment for the biological agents received from US companies, American taxpayers ended up stuck with the bill for weapons that were later used against coalition forces." Part of the reason it was covered up is that President Bush's father was involved with Brown Brothers Harriman Bank, which was involved with the transactions. [Editor Note: Leading Edge readers, see the footnotes at the bottom of the page with the extract from the Cobden Club Memorandum of 1991]

How was this cover-up of the manufacture of weapons for Iraq arranged in the United States? Bush arranged for 70% of the policy-makers in the Department of Justice to remain in their jobs when Clinton was elected. The official stance from the Justice Department is, "we cannot talk about this, because the independent prosecutor has said, through the courts, that no one is to discuss this investigation officially, until it is finished." Now, there is someone who is really giving out official information, but it doesn't come out in the media - only in Media Bypass.

Media Mistakenly Releases Truth About Doxycycline Then Issues Cover-up Stories
(Slide Shown) Ok, this just came out the other day. I was in Connecticut doing a radio show on the Gulf War issue, and I was taking a break for a commercial, when all of a sudden CBS radio comes over the main feed and says, "the Gulf War illness is found to be helped by the antibiotic Doxycycline." I couldn't believe it. We pushed the federal government to admitting this.

[Editor Note: I thought you might find it interesting that CBS has had long time connections to the Central Intelligence Agency]

I called CBS news and they faxed me the news release. I thought, "now they'll be able to get Doxycycline from the military." Guess what happens the next day. Good old Associated Press, the cover-up news agency, comes out with "Report Urges More Attention to Psychological Problems". Here we are, back again, to saying that all the symptoms are psychological. And so they had another cover-up news release that came out just this past week to cover-up the one that came out that told the truth. That's what's happening.

Here is another article which recently came out. It says, "US to Expand Presence as Persian Gulf Deterrent." On January 7th, another press release said, "The United States will expand on its already massive military presence in the Persian Gulf ". How many of you knew we still had massive military presence in the Persian Gulf? We thought the war was over. They are sending troops over there every three months, and those biological agents are still bound to the silica in the sand, and those troops are getting ill and calling me. I just got a copy of the executive order that Clinton just passed to bring in more reservists into active service. Why are they doing that, I wonder. Through the use of Executive Orders, they are signing away all our rights. This is what concerns me. Look at this. Executive Order 10011 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions. Is that what we are going to do now, with this incredible problem we've got?

The Convention on Biological Diversity: Nature Worship A State Religion
(Slide Shown) This is the Convention on Biological Diversity. I just got a copy of this, and I don't know how many of you have seen this. I think that you would be interested in knowing what it calls for. Guess what they want to do? Objective: To make nature worship a state religion. To make man equal to all other species. Now, when you start getting really involved, the way I am now, there are a lot of people that don't want you to do it. I got this letter from the Department of the Navy, which is the closest station to where I am, and they said, "Dear Captain Riley, Our desire is to medically evaluate you, as soon as possible." You'll have to catch me, and I don't think you're going to.

Sexually Transmitted Cancer
Peter Kawaja has been talking about this. Guess what. This just came out on 10/10/95. There is such a thing as sexually transmitted cancer. Isn't it strange that all these things we've been talking about are now coming out? Let me tell you about Peter Kawaja. He operated under a government code name. The reason he did this is that he found out that biological agents were being made in the United States, and he was aware of the fact that it was essentially treason, and that it was wrong, and he went to the CIA, FBI and US Customs and told them that this was going on.

Product Ingredient Technology and Dr. Barbouti
He told them that "they are making biological agents in Boca Raton, Florida, and that they are being used for germ warfare." The government then said to him to let them know everything he found out, and they wanted to stay on top of it. Peter was a security systems person that was hired to do security contracts. In doing so, he was able to see what was happening at this plant, called P.I.T, the Product Ingredient Technology plant. This plant was a project of Dr. Barbouti, who is from Houston. His son still lives in Houston. Dr. Barbouti had been involved in the (illegal) sales of arms to Iraq, had originally built the biological warfare plant in Libya, had come to the United States and had cloned the Libyan plant in Boca Raton, Florida. They said they were making a cherry flavoring there. That was the cover story. Well, he got a letter after he signed the contract to do the security arrangement. In the letter, PIT stated that "we forgot to tell you that we need a cyanide detection system."

Now, if Saddam Hussein had wanted to kill our soldiers, he would have just outright killed them with mustard or cyanide, right? That wasn't the plan. The plan was to give them a long-term illness that they would bring back to their families. What better way to give a country a disease than to give it to the military, who move all over the country. This was an experiment in biological warfare. Well, this cyanide that was to be made in Boca Raton was for Prussian Blue, which is a hydrogen cyanide derivative, and the purpose for its manufacture was that it was placed in the SCUD rockets with the biochemical substances. When the missile blew up, the Prussian Blue would deteriorate the materials of which the gas masks were made, especially the filters. So, even if they did put their protective gear on, it wouldn't work. All the time, they thought the chemical suits were protecting them. Again, this Prussian Blue was made by a company in the United States.

The Bush Administration Response to Discovery
When Peter Kawaja continued to get this information and found out about all of this, he then did something the government did not expect him to do. He wire tapped all the telephones at the PIT plant. He wire tapped all the phones at the corporate living quarters of the International Headquarters of IBI International (Ishan Barbouti International). When he wiretapped all of these phones, he heard Congressmen, officials in the Bush administration, high-level world officials, and he found out that he had been had - that this was a joint venture with the United States government. Now, they realized that he had tapped the phone lines, and they served him with a "War Powers Act Subpoena" - the first one ever issued since World War II. It takes an Executive Order from the President to issue this. They came to his business with armed guards and took all his recordings, documents - everything. This is significant. He was not served with the affidavit of the search warrant to go along with it, all of this evidence remains at the Department of Justice and it is being held under "national security" until "the investigation" is "complete."

What the British Press Knew in 1991 That Americans Did Not
However, look what came out of the British press. On January 17, 1991. Let me show you how much information the British press had. Look at this, "Boca Plant begins trail to Washington." You see, what Peter Kawaja did is that he sent a FedEx letter to the NSA telling them terrorists were in the United States making biological weapons, and he wanted President Bush to know. That is when they came and took his documents. Here are more British headlines, "Congress Probes Linking Gates to Arms Deal" and "Barbouti Acted in Accord with US Plan Toward Iraq" and "Gates and Secord Linked to Iraqi Pipeline". Down here, in the Financial Times of London, July 3, 1991, there is an article "US Cyanide Shipped to Iraq Despite Warnings to CIA", and "Iraqi's Florida Plant Tied to Poison Gas: Export of Chemical Feared". Ishan Barbouti, by the way, died one week before the war began. He is buried under eight feet of cement, "for religious purposes", in London.

The Federal Lawsuit Against the Perpetrators
(Slide Shown) This is a lawsuit that Peter Kawaja has filed in the Southern District Court of Florida. He is charging war crimes against the Bush administration. He has filed a lawsuit against 100 federal agents. I will show you part of what he has done. He has accused them of war crimes, concealment, conspiracy, corruption, aiding and abetting, fraud, obstruction of justice, tampering with a witness, and more. You see, he was called three times to be a witness for a Federal Grand Jury against Barbouti. There is a lot that we can't go into because of time. He is doing this Pro Se, by the way. It has been in the system for two years now, and he has kept it there. He is saying that they attempted to conceal US Government dealings with terrorists and terrorist nations - the same terrorists the Bush administration had publicly declared war against. Under item "I" in this lawsuit, it reads, "to conceal from the American public, and from American forces, and their families, who were knowingly placed in harms way, that the same terrorist nations the Bush administration had declared war against, had acquired new weapons of mass destruction from the United States, which American forces could not defend against." This information is in the court system, and Peter needs support. We are aware of this case, and we are going to be watching this case. By the way, when he filed this lawsuit against the US Government, they didn't come back and deny anything. They simply said "we deserve immunity, because we are the United States Government."

(Slide Shown) This is part of the deposition of one of the agents involved. It says here, "I can assure you that if drums of cyanide left our plant, Dr. Barbouti had his reasons, either to be used against American troops or terrorist acts against the United States at home." It is amazing to see this in a deposition.

The Clinton Cover-up and the Psychotropic Drugging of Poisoned Veterans
So, Peter Kawaja sent all the information to President Clinton on September 4, 1994. Clinton then started a "Presidential Advisory Task Force". I don't know if you have heard anything about this or not, but it is a whitewash and cover-up. It is incredible that they are making the American people think that they are really looking into the Gulf War illness. They called me the other day, and asked me, "can you tell us what you think is causing the Gulf War illness?" I said, it doesn't make any difference what I think. Twelve thousand troops are already dead, and you need to be finding out what's doing it. We all know what is doing it - biological and chemical warfare. They said, "well, we can't pinpoint exactly what virus or bacteria is causing the problem, so we can't treat it." I said, you say you don't know what causes cancer, but you treat that!" It is amazing that they are taking this stance, dragging their feet, and trying to make the Gulf War vets feel that it is "their fault." You have 23 year-old Marines that are being told it is "all in your head" and being placed on Prozac and other psychotropic drugs. They have been sedated. I had one young man call me, and he was practically drooling, and he said, "please don't stop doing what you are doing". I said, what I need is to have the Gulf War veterans behind me. He said, "I'm so sedated, I couldn't get angry if I wanted to." That's the problem. They have either given them the psychotropic drugs, or they have bought them off with a 10% disability, $89 per month, which makes them feel like they are getting something they deserve.

America has been lied to, and it is going to stop. We have to get to the mainstream. I would encourage you to contact your Congressman and your newspapers. Do not let this stop. I want to see letters from your Senators either admitting or denying all of this. If they were in office in 1994, they have been exposed to the Reigle Report.

In closing, I want to say that we need your prayers, and the veterans need your prayers. I am only here as a messenger. I am just one person that is not going to be quiet about this. I am not going to let our Gulf War veterans die and suffer without American knowing what happened to them. Please do what you can to get the word out. gulf.htm

You can view this information at: http://www.all-natural.com/riley.htm

[pimpkidman828]

dawg explain these in ur own words it be easier u know

[Khal]

The Manchurian Candidate was also based on this article. I know this article is very long. So basically the article emphasizes on how America would kill their own soldiers to reduce the world population. The main reason wars are fought is primarily to lower the world's population. After that process is done it will be easy to control the world under on government. World War 3 will also be set up for this purpose.


novus ordo seclorum = Welcome to a New World order. A new secular order

[senormilkman]

Originally Posted by pimpkidman828

dawg explain these in ur own words it be easier u know

Read it...There is a reason its in SD and not General Chat..

[senormilkman]

If you havent seen this video...watch it. Its really interesting..

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle6847.htm

After doing that and reading the article...Put 2 and 2 togeather...It really is sad..

[saze]

It's so sad to see most people don't have a clue as to what is really going on in the world today, and are happy to digest the bullshit provided by CNN & co without as much as questioning it. Bush 41 hits the nail on the head:

"If the people knew what was going on, they would chase us down the street and lynch us"

[Cunard]

Originally Posted by saze

It's so sad to see most people don't have a clue as to what is really going on in the world today, and are happy to digest the bullshit provided by CNN & co without as much as questioning it. Bush 41 hits the nail on the head:

"If the people knew what was going on, they would chase us down the street and lynch us"

same problems are everywhere....al jazeera and al arabia, or Zee News arent any better, news is always bias in a good way towards there own country

[Khal]

yah i hate Al jazeera. They are filled with b.s.

[saze]

Originally Posted by Cunard

same problems are everywhere....al jazeera and al arabia, or Zee News arent any better, news is always bias in a good way towards there own country

I agree. Mainstream news media picks and chooses what to show to suit their own purposes. Much like Discovery Channel picks programs for their entertainment, rather than educational, value.

[dr_sinister1001]

You all remind me of myself 3 years ago, global events are not quite so overt for every global initiative there is more than one consequence both anticipated and not.

[tom dick harry]

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

You all remind me of myself 3 years ago, global events are not quite so overt for every global initiative there is more than one consequence both anticipated and not.

And yet you still believe in 'The Man'...

[dr_sinister1001]

Originally Posted by tom dick harry

And yet you still believe in 'The Man'...

Not in such literal terms, if you've read my posts you'd understand that.

There can be no denying that the economic and political power is held amongst a very small minority.

[aloner4 u]

Originally Posted by Khal

TRUTH Behind the Gulf War Sydnrome
Gulf War Syndrome, Biological Warfare Conducted on US Military Members, and Corporate Bio-Genocide Levied on the Planetary Population

A Lecture By Captain Joyce Riley in Houston, Texas on Jan 15, 1996
Transcript by Leading Edge Research Group
P.O. Box 7530, Yelm, Washington 98597
World Wide Web http://www.cco.net/~trufax E-Mail trufax@cco.net
With Editorial Commentary by Val Valerian


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction
(Applause) Thank you so very much. I am Joyce Riley, and I am here because I love my God and I love my country, and I love my fellow man. We are going to hear a story tonight that unfortunately is the saddest story, not only of the 20th century, but of America's history. You are going to hear about the destruction of the United States military. I am sorry to have to bring you this story. I wish it wasn't true. I wish that I could protect you from what you are going to hear tonight, because it has taken me a year to investigate this story. During that time, I went through the worst depression you can imagine. I finally came to the conclusion one day that - yes, our country had provided the biologicals to Saddam Hussein that were used on our troops. Our troops are sick and they are dying.

My story started in 1991, when I decided to go back to the Air Force Reserve. I had been stationed in the late 1970's in New York State, and I had been involved as a flight nurse in the Air Force. I got out and was living my life, but then I heard that there was a war and that many of our men were going to die if they didn't have adequate care, and that they needed trained flight nurses. So, I decided to back into the service of my country. I went back to Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio and I volunteered to go to Saudi Arabia. As it was, I didn't go to Saudi Arabia because the cease-fire came, so I served active duty missions on a C-130 aircraft for about six months. After that, I returned back to Houston to my job, where I was a heart, lung, kidney and liver transplant nurse in Houston, Texas. I became very ill and I could get no answers. I didn't know why I was sick. No one would talk with me about it. No one would help me with it, and I had to find out the answers myself, alone.

The Problem
So, I began the investigation myself to answer the question of why I was sick. I didn't even go to the Persian Gulf. They call it the Persian Gulf disease and the Persian Gulf Registry. They do that for a reason, because then they can exclude all of us who are sick who didn't go to the Persian Gulf. Well, I didn't go and I was still sick, and I wanted to know why. The only thing I had in common with those who did go is that I had received the immunizations and that I had a lot of contact with Gulf War veterans who were returning back to the states, and with other members of our unit. Little did we know at the time that the biologicals that were used were impregnated in the equipment they had, such as tents and duffle bags. It was being spread to all of us and we didn't even know it. We were being told a lie. America, I am sorry to tell you that we have been told one of the biggest lies this country has ever perpetrated upon us. They are telling us there is no Gulf War disease. They are telling us biologicals were not used. They are not even telling you that between 10,000 to 12,000 Gulf war vets have already died. [Ed. As at December, 1996 the US Government figure is 20,000].

I began my investigation and I went into depression the day I realized we had been lied to. I had been involved with President Bush and with the White House, because I had been involved in organ transplantation. I wrote a letter and called the White House and invited him to come to Houston with Dr. Cooley to sign an organ donor card. He and Barbara did accept the invitation, and I met with them, and they signed an organ donor card. President Bush told me at the time that "I appreciate what you are doing. If this had been available years ago, perhaps my daughter Robin might not have died." He told me that. Well, little did I know that during that same time they were making the poisons that were going to eventually kill us. At the end of the program, I am going to play an open letter I wrote to President Bush. He lives in Houston, as do all of the players in what you are about to hear tonight. They all reside in Houston.

I do believe that the Lord gave me this story to tell, because a nurse from Houston, Texas just doesn't "come across" this information - that biological warfare has been perpetrated on the American people. I knew when I heard the story that I had to move on it. I had to let Americans know. I would not be quiet, because you see I knew that the government was actively covering it up.

What I am going to show you tonight is not opinion. It is not conjecture. It is proof. I am going to show you documentation on the overhead projector - the evidence to support what I am saying to you.

The basic fact is that biological agents were used on our troops. Chemical agents were used on our troops. Germ warfare was used on our troops - using biologicals that were made in the United States of America. It was made in Houston, Texas and Boca Raton, Florida. It was passed through the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and through companies such as American Type Culture Collection (ATCC) in Maryland. It was passed to Saddam Hussein - sold to Saddam Hussein, as late as 1989. Just prior to the war. The American government was involved in the provision of biological warfare (components) to Saddam Hussein. They knew exactly what they were doing. Our troops did not know what to expect, nor were they protected. We later found out that we had no adequate biological/chemical detection capability. The lies are going on and on. I released the story on my radio show on May 4, 1995 with Drs. Garth and Nancy Nicholson. We had security in the studio because I had made the mistake of sending out some news releases in advance. I was afraid that we would be stopped from doing the program. We had someone there to argue a temporary restraining order, if necessary. But, we didn't need it. Drs. Garth and Nancy Nicholson named names, places and times. The sad part is that it is real. When I heard them naming names and places, I thought "oh, my word. I'm going to have ten lawyers on my door tomorrow."

No one showed up. No one has come to me and said, "you shouldn't be saying this". The reason being that they don't want to fight me in court. They know its true. So, what I am going to show you tonight is absolute evidence of the saddest story in American history.

A Letter
I am going to start with a letter written to me from a young man in Wichita, Kansas. It begins, "please forgive me for not writing sooner. I have been out of town on the job. My only hope is to reach other vets and the public to let them know it is true and many of us are dying from this illness. I will not give up until we are recognized and taken care of by our government, who continues to blackball us on this endless journey." That is one Gulf War veteran who understands, and I have received so many phone calls it has been impossible to return them.

At our unit at Kelly Air Force base, we were very spirited, with a mission to fulfill. We were going to take care of that mission. Well, unfortunately, it was not the way it was. Let's go back in time and look at a little history. I am going to show you a lot of information that is incredibly important. You must understand that America has been doing this for a long period of time. It has been experimenting on both civilians and military members.

1970 Vaccine "Safety" Tests at the University of Maryland
(Slide Shown) This is a 1970 article that appeared in a newspaper in Maryland (reads article): "Research volunteers. Volunteers needed for 30 day in-patient vaccine safety tests. Very pleasant environment. Pay $20 per day. Call the University of Maryland." One lady did call that number and was involved in those tests. She is very ill today. They experimented on her. That was not the first time that experimentation was done.

(Slide Shown) This is another article that appeared: "University of Maryland may have tested drugs for the CIA." How many of you are familiar with MKULTRA? It involved the experimental use of LSD on the public without their knowledge. I'll read a little more of this article. "The Central Intelligence Agency has notified the University of Maryland that the school may have been involved in so-called mind-bending tests and drug experiments sponsored by the agency between 1953 and 1964. The University is about one of eighty institutions that conducted experiments under a program code-named MKULTRA." It goes on to identify where the tests were done, and states that they are now going to protect all the researchers involved with the program. They want to provide the researchers with confidentiality. However, those that were experimented upon do not even know they were involved in a test. "Critics disclose that human subjects did not know what they were getting either before or after the tests, and both the Army and the institutions involved said they did not follow up on the personnel." Now, I want you to notice here that the people involved in this were 44 colleges, 15 research foundations or chemical companies, 12 hospitals and three prisons. Now, we are going to go into prisons in just a few minutes as far as how it was tested on the prisoners.

1970 Appropriation of Money to Create Human Immune Deficiency Virus
(Slide Shown) Another document that I want you to remember as long as you live is this. This document appeared on my fax machine. I believe it to be the origin of the appropriation of the money to make the AIDS virus [Editor note: See Matrix III Volume One]. This is the appropriations hearing for 1970 for the Department of Defense. It is House Bill 15090. I want you to see that the Department of Defense appropriated $10 million in 1970 to make a synthetic biological agent. Ask yourself why the Department of Defense needs this kind of agent. There are two things about the field of biological agents I would like to mention. One is the possibility of technological surprise. It says that "we believe that within a period of five to ten years, it would be possible to produce a synthetic biological agent that does not naturally exist and for which no natural immunity could have been acquired." What does that sound like to you? It goes on down here to say, "within the next five to ten years, it would probably be possible to make a new ineffective microorganism which could be different in certain important aspects from any known disease-causing organism. Most importantly, it might be damaging to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease." Basically this says it will destroy the immune system. This was appropriated in 1970. In 1975 the first recorded "AIDS" related death occurred. Perfect timing. It goes on to say, "a research program to explore feasibility could be completed in approximately five years at a cost of $10 million." Now, look at this part down here, which says, "it is a highly controversial issue and there are many who believe such research should not be undertaken, lest it lead to yet another method of mass killing of large populations." That is in your government documentation. Now, getting involved with killing of large numbers of people is not what a government is for. I want you to get this document. Get this House Bill.

What the Government and Media Say About Gulf War Syndrome
What is the US Government saying about the Gulf War? This is an 1996 article from Time Magazine that says, "No Gas Used Against the Troops." What is the government propaganda saying? They are saying that "there is no scientific or medical evidence that chemical or biological weapons were deployed at any level against us." That is an absolute lie. I will show you proof that they knew that chemical and biological agents were used. After my radio show, an article came out in the Houston Chronicle which said, "Gulf War Syndrome Doesn't Exist". Now, here we have a documented number of Gulf War veterans that have already died, and they come out and say there is no Gulf War illness. There is something really wrong. Now, you didn't hear much about the Gulf War illness for about four years, until the Nicholsons went forward with this information. Here is another article from the Washington Times, "Pentagon Says There Is No Gulf War Disease." That article also came out shortly after we went on the air. The Los Angeles Times, "Government Study of Veterans Finds No Evidence of Gulf War Disease."

Now, let's look at the documentation from the Persian Gulf Veterans Coordinating Board, which is nothing but cover-up information. They are not telling the veterans the truth. They told us that they contacted every one of us to see if we were sick. No one contacted us. I have not heard of any person being contacted. But, look at this. A million men and women went to the Gulf. That's a large number of people. Why do we need to go over there in the first place? What were we doing over there? I am not sure.

What Was Really Behind the Gulf War: Malthusian Population Reduction
[Editor Note: The reason for the Gulf War, upon analysis, was threefold. It was to infect the US military and subsequently the US and world population, and secondly to reacquire Kuwait oil fields, which are owned by a well-known family in London, and thirdly to test weaponry on Iraq, to whom factions sold weapons to be used against our own troops. Part of the cover-up involved with Gulf War syndrome is also meant to conceal the fact that President Bush and other members of his administration held stock in some of the biotech companies that produced the biological weapons used against US troops and shipped to Iraq. Another part of the cover-up involves conventional arms, specifically a company known as US Arms, who sold Iraq conventional weapons to be used against US troops. Former Secretary of Agriculture Ron Brown, who was in the aircraft that was blown up in Bosnia, was on the board of Directors of US Arms. Four individuals on the plane were to testify in an upcoming hearing. Traces of thermite, denoting explosives, were found on the bodies. Thirty-seven people were murdered. President Clinton recently claimed Executive Privilege as a reason for not disclosing certain documents to Congress relating to arms shipments to Iraq. Do you understand, yet? Other reasons for securing the area involved control of vital earth grid points in Southern Iraq. Interestingly, there are also large underground facilities in the Middle East, some of them of rather ancient, and alien, origin, which still today contain high-tech equipment].

50% of Gulf War Veterans Are No Longer in the Service - More Than 10,000 Are Dead
A million Gulf War vets went, and a million of them have the potential of being sick. I will tell you a little bit why later. By their own admission, some 697,000 active duty service members and some 180,000 national guard went to the Gulf. What they say now is that 489,000 of them have since separated from the military. Now, ask yourself why in an all-volunteer force, after a war, would 50% of the individuals involved get out of the military? It is not a statistic that even makes sense. One out every two have gotten out of the military since Desert Storm? I wonder why. Possibly because they had to, because they were sick and were forced out.

This is another figure that scares me. To date, the VA reports that more than 489,400 Gulf War veterans have received medical care in VA facilities. One out of every two. Ask yourself why. You don't go to the VA unless you have no where else to go.

Here is another item that was faxed to me from the VA. You see here that by their own admission they say that 5,729 Gulf War veterans have died since the war. We know the figure is now between 10,000 to 12,000.

Clinton-appointed Chairman of Joint Chiefs and Secretary of Defense Lie in 1994 About Presence of Chemical and Biological Weapons in the Gulf
This is an item that came out from Chief of Staff Shalikashvilli and Secretary William Perry. This letter came out May 24, 1994. It says, "There have been reports in the press of the possibility that some of you were exposed to biological weapons agents. There is no information, classified or unclassified, that indicates that chemical or biological weapons were used in the Persian Gulf. There have also been reports that some veterans believe there are restrictions on what they can say about potential exposures. Anybody attached to CBW units needs to know that they are free to speak now. You should not feel constrained to discuss these issues." The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Secretary of Defense say there were no chemical or biological weapons used. In fact, there is plenty of evidence. It has already been presented on the floor of the Senate, and I am going to show it to you. [ Editor Note: Here she is referring to the Reigle Report. We might also remind you that the father of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was in the Nazi SS].

Active Duty Military Intimidated Into Silence
I was approached at one point in time by someone who lead me to Drs. Garth and Nancy Nicholson, who are heroes in my mind. They are both Ph.D. scientists at the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center. Their daughter was in the 101st Airborne that did deep insertions into Iraq. Many of the 101st Airborne have called me and many of them are sick. The 82nd Airborne is sick. Men and women at Fort Hood, Texas are sick. Camp Pendleton. Camp LeJeune. Fort Riley is really sick right now. These people are not allowed to talk about this in the military. They are not allowed to tell people about the Gulf War Illness. They are not allowed to admit to it. I have even visited Gulf War vets at Brook Army Medical Hospital, and they are not even allowed to talk about it. I took some Gulf War information over there and the patients had to hide it so the doctors would not see it. So, the Nicholson's daughter came back from Iraq sick. She gave the disease to the family - to Garth and Nancy, who live in Houston, and also to the family cat. The cat died. Before the cat died, they tested all of their blood. They found that they were positive for something called Mycoplasma Incognitas, which is the chief biological agent we find to be responsible for a lot of the illness of the veterans.

Mycoplasma Incognitas
I will explain this to you by saying that Mycoplasma Incognitas is between the size of a bacteria and a virus. It travels through a population, and as long as your immune system is all right it will not affect you. But, according to the Nicholson's, who are both Ph.D. cellular biologists, they found that the scientists who were involved in this horrible plot inserted 40% of the HIV envelope gene into the Mycoplasma. What this means is that it doesn't give you HIV, but it gives you the symptoms. So, they found this and realized that they had a germ warfare agent on their hands. It is the first biological agent identified. There have been others.

US Government Refuses to Dispense Known Treatment to Affected People
The Nicholson's went to the laboratory to discover how to treat this. They found that an antibiotic called Doxycycline was the most effective. The United States military will not allow military members under their control to have Doxycycline or VA hospitals to dispense Doxycycline. They are simply not allowed to have it. I got a call from a Special Forces commander who had been retired for one year. He said, "I have had it. I came home. I served my country. I got my blood sent to Dr. Nicholson for free testing and got my prescription for Doxycycline. I went to have it filled and not only did that take away my military ID card, but they would not allow me to have the Doxycycline to save my life." You see, the disease is contagious, and now the wives and children are getting it. It is going to affect you in the general population. That is why it is so important to understand how serious this is. It is not just the United States. It is a worldwide program. There were 28 countries that served with the United States in Iraq. All 28 countries now report that their men and women are also sick. But Drs. Garth and Nancy Nicholson revealed that a Houston company was involved in the manufacture of a biological weapon that was sold to Iraq and was used on American soldiers in the Gulf War. Since we came out with the names of these companies, there have been lawsuits filed against those corporations.

Symptoms of the Syndrome
These are the symptoms of the syndrome. You may look at this and it may not seem very significant to you, so if you look at aching joints and go to your doctor and say "I have aching joints" or you say "I have chronic fatigue", or you say "I don't have the memory I used to", they will not say anything. When I am talking about memory loss, I am talking about the kind where you have to wear a beeper so your family can find you. One young man told me, "I can only remember today. I can't remember what happened yesterday." He was 27 years old. We are talking about a problem known as night sweats. Any Gulf War veteran who has the Mycoplasma knows about night sweats. You have to change your linens twice a night. The muscle spasms get so bad that you can't stand it and people scream in pain. There is also loss of eyesight, breathing problems, and chest pains because the Mycoplasma settles in the atrium of the heart. All of these are problems that become worse.

The problem is that the government is telling the people of the United States "there is no Gulf War Illness". The doctors in this country think there is no Gulf War Illness. So, when people come in and complain about the symptoms, they are turned aside and told that the problem is psychological in nature.

Deformed Children Caused by US Corporate Genocide
Now, you are not being told about the babies that are being born deformed. There is a Gulf War Baby Foundation formed to register babies who have contracted the syndrome. There are so many that are being born deformed. You are not being told about this. Dan Rather doesn't tell you about it, does he? No. And so, you think that if it isn't on the nightly news it must not be true, right? If a tree falls in the forest and Dan Rather doesn't cover it, does it still make a noise? Think about it.

Gulf War babies are severely deformed. In fact, according to Nation Magazine, "studies have shown that 67% of babies born to Gulf War veterans are deformed. What have they done to our future generations? What have they done to their DNA?

There was an article that appeared in Life Magazine in November 1995 featuring a man in the 82nd Airborne at Fort Brag, North Carolina. This young man has a child with no arms and no legs. I know of a nurse in San Antonio who knows of 50 children like this.

When our soldiers risked their lives in the Gulf, they never imagined that their children would face these consequences or that their country would turn its back on them. You are hearing what perhaps 1% of the country knows today. It will take your help to get this story out. There is no way these parents can afford to take care of these children. (Shows pictures of children).

The Reigle Reports and Congressional Knowledge About the Problem Covered Up
This is something that the government is trying to keep you from knowing about. The Reigle report is evidence that biological and chemical weapons were used on our troops. It was presented to the United States Senate, but it has been withheld from you. They don't want you to see it. A news release went out that Senator Reigle from Michigan was a brave man for doing this. He is no longer in the Senate. He had to pay for the report to be done. The Feb 1994 news release said, "Reigle Uncovers US Shipment of Biological Warfare Materials to Iraq Prior to Gulf War". The release went on to say, "there is evidence of transmission to family members. I am deeply troubled that the United States permitted the sale of deadly biological agents to a country with a known biological warfare program."

There is no blood ban stopping Gulf War veterans from donating blood to the general blood supply that the general population uses. Reigle also sent a letter to Secretary of Defense Perry on Feb 9, 1994 and talked about the exposure of Gulf War veterans and the transmission of the disease to spouses and children. He found out that we had been exporting these biological substances through ATCC. This information is known to every Senator that was in office in 1994. Why aren't they doing something about it. Why weren't you told about it? Reigle also said to Secretary Perry, "without proper treatment and testing, their condition will worsen. They cannot wait. Many are now destitute, with their savings spent on medical care not provided by the government.

According to Senator Reigle, "the Department of Defense refuses to acknowledge any part of the problem. Their blanket denials are not credible. To my mind, there is no more serious crime than an official military cover-up of facts that could prevent more effective diagnosis and treatment of sick US veterans. It is an astonishing example that the Defense Department is going to deny reality."

The Veterans Administration is not treating Gulf War veterans, but only monitoring their blood to see how well the biological warfare agents worked. They are not treating the Gulf War veterans. (Here she details the bacteriological substance shipped. See attachment from the Reigle Report at the end of this transcript).

Proof of Chemical Weapon Use from the Schwartzkoff NBC Log
(Slide Shown) Here is how we know the biologicals were used. What I am showing you was once a classified document. It is part of the Chemical-Biological log that belonged to General Norman Schwartzkoff in CENTCOM. He was responsible for central command. The NBC log is sort of a roadmap of the war and what transpired. You can see here that it says, "Colonel Dunn has confirmed that the soldiers of the 3rd AD have blisters, characteristic of mustard chemical agent, on upper and lower arms." Remember the official statement? "No Biological or Chemical Weapons Used". The log continues, "ARCENT advised that casualty happened on afternoon of 28 Feb, a reddening of the skin and small blisters." I want you to know that I talked to several of the MEDIVAC flight nurses who accompanied the troops out of the theater of operations, and they told me that many of the men had no skin on them, that their skin was falling off. Evidence of a chemical burn. So, this is known information. Some of the autopsies done at Dover, Delaware found that some of the deaths were due to chemical poisoning.

Schwartzkoff's NBC log continues, "Msgt Blue called. Subject: Commanders Guidance for Disposition of captured chemical and biological munitions." They had captured them and they knew they existed. Continuing, "field destruction is OK, but bulk destruction may have international implications." I have a number of these pages that were released under a FOIA request, and there are about 100 pages that were released to the Gulf War Veterans of Georgia. My hat is off to all the Gulf War Veterans that have been trying to take this message to the public for the last four years.

(Slide Shown) Anybody who was in Desert Storm knows what these are. The little "PB" pills which are a pre-treatment pill for a nerve agent. In other words, if you were going to be affected by a nerve agent such as Soman, you would take this pill in advance and it was supposed to help you. However, you should never take this unless you actually are affected, because it builds up in the body and it creates many problems.

International Media Comes to the US to Investigate
(Slide Shown) This is an article that came out of the Sunday Times in London. The BBC has been over here investigating this quite heavily because they have so many people in England that are sick from all of this. The Italian equivalent to "60 Minutes" has been over here filming on the subject, because the Italian soldiers are sick also. It's country after country.

US Companies Sold Iraq New Genocidal Anthrax Toxin
This is why I am scared about what is going on with the biological warfare. It hasn't stopped, because Saddam Hussein still has these things. Reading the Sunday Times article, we see that "Russia has developed a powerful new poison with no antidote that could be used in biological weapons. It is a variation of the anthrax toxin that causes death within days. It has been genetically engineered to make it resistant to antibiotics. The toxin is so powerful that a tiny amount that would fit on a pinhead would theoretically kill 500,000 people." Can you imagine what that would do to the WATER SUPPLY? Saddam Hussein had thousands of pounds of this substance that was given to him by United States companies.

Veteran Medical Files Destroyed or Missing
Guess what happened to our veterans medical files? They are destroyed. There was actually an attorney who was sent to prison for destroying veterans medical files. Many of the medical files of Gulf War veterans are missing. Not only are they missing, but now the proof that they received the vaccinations is now missing.

Gulf War Participants Force-Injected With Experimental Vaccines
Let's talk about how we were affected on the biological side. The first way was with the immunizations. We were given 10 or 11 immunizations prior to going to the gulf. We don't know everything we got. Some of us got sick afterwards. The Anthrax vaccinations were given over in the Gulf, in the theater of operations, and you were forced to submit to it. If you didn't take it, you were court-martialed. People were put into a room like this, the doors were locked, and they had security guards with side arm who stood by while people were forced to take this injection. Why? Why would they do this to people? The Anthrax "vaccine" had not been approved and was experimental. The injection for Botulism was also dangerous. All of these things in combination created a problem.

The Soviet Doctrine: The Biological Cocktail
But, the real problem that we believe to be the main transmission agent was via the SCUD-B and FROG missiles. You see, the SCUD missiles that Hussein used on us had biological and chemical agents in them. When the Patriots shot them down, it rained biological and chemical agents down on the troops. In terms of biological warfare, they used what is called the SOVIET DOCTRINE, in which 18-20 biological agents were mixed together in the tanks of the SCUD missiles. Because the batch contained so many biological agents, it effectively confuses the diagnosis and the treatment process. Now, ask yourself this.

Media Projects Responsibility on Iraq for US Crimes
What is the press coming out and saying? If you read the media, which I hope you don't, you will see an article in the Kansas City Star on October 14th that said, "Iraq Sanctioned", in which they claimed "Iraq lied to us about having and using biological weapons." You know as well as I do that they have satellites in the sky that enable them to see what you are having for dinner. You know they knew what Hussein had, because they sold it to them. Absolutely.

This is what I want you to be watching for, because this is going to be the cover story. They are going to have to deal with the Gulf War illness because so many people have it now. In fact, I will tell you now that because we know that over 10,000 have already died, and we believe 500,000 of our Gulf War veterans to be sick, Dr. Nicholson told me that 20% of the people around the theater of operations (United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, etc.) are now sick. It is coming to a place near you, believe me. The chronic fatigue syndrome. I got a call from a doctor the other day who told me that he has 15 patients with CFS, and they don't know anyone who went to the Gulf War. It's transmissible through sex and through kissing, because it is now found in the dental floss test, where you can see evidence of the mycoplasma. It is communicable and it is going to be growing.

A doctor called me the other day, and he said, "I don't know what's going on. I volunteered to take care of these Gulf War veterans because the VA wouldn't take care of them, and now I'm sick with the same problem. Can you help me understand why I'm sick?" I said, "don't you know its a communicable disease?" He had no idea, because the official position of the US Government is that "there is no Gulf War illness."

Peter Kawaja has been talking about the fact that "GF" was used during the war. Nobody ever mentioned "GF" or even heard of it, except Peter Kawaja, and he kept saying "GF was used." Well, the substance called "GF" is made by the US Department of the Army. The government made it. I have evidence in the government logs of "GF" having been used during the war, but no one ever addressed "GF" until a US News and World Report article came out on September 11, 1995. In this, they have the UN inspector going over to Iraq and inspecting the SCUDS and voicing the "sudden realization" that "Oh, they had all this nasty stuff over there after all that the Iraqis didn't tell us about". Well, I have evidence in a Pentagon report that shows that we knew about it more than 30 days before the war started. The US government knew it was in the SCUDS, because the US companies sold it to Iraq in the first place. It's interesting that in this story the UN inspector is trying to cover himself by saying what he did. The fact that "GF" is mentioned in Schwartzkoff's NBC log also proves the military knew it was there.

The True Origin of The "New" Emerging Biological Diseases is the Biological Cocktail Thrust on the Planet By US Companies, Disguised in the Media as & quot;Mysterious New Diseases" from "Nowhere" In Order to Cover Up Crimes Against Humanity and Genocide.

An article came out in Scientific American in October 1995 that was very fascinating reading. They have to deal with the results of this biological warfare, because too many people are getting sick and too many people are dying. How are they going to deal with it? The title of the article in Scientific American was, "Dangers from new viral plagues." Have you been seeing anything in the newspaper about Dengue fever in South America, or about these "strange" viral hemorragic diseases that are "suddenly attacking us" from "nowhere"? Guess what. They came out of the Gulf War! And, they are now calling it "emerging viruses". Hemorragic fever viruses are among the most dangerous biological agents known. The Ebola virus. You didn't hear about that before the Gulf War, did you?

The article in the Scientific American wants you to believe that all of a sudden we are going to be having all these incredible viruses, all over the world, appearing for no reason at all. Many biologists are saying that they never heard of any of these things before. How many of you ever heard of the Hantavirus before the Gulf War? Remember the Hantavirus in New Mexico, caused by "mouse droppings"? I guess we didn't have mouse droppings before the Gulf War, right? We didn't hear about Ebola before the Gulf War. We didn't hear so much about Chronic Fatigue before the Gulf War. A lot of these things we never had a problem with before the Gulf War. A lot of them were used during that time and supplied by United States companies.

Now, the media tells you "why" we are "going to have this incredible problem." Scientific American tells us, "the primary cause of most cases of hemorragic fever is ecological disruption resulting from human activity." In other words, we cut down too many trees in the rain forest and those bugs are going to get us. That's what they are trying to get you to believe, that it is because of cutting down too many trees in the rain forest. Well, they are calling them hemorragic fever viruses now. I've never heard of hemorragic fever viruses. I've been a nurse for 25 years and I have never heard about them. But, now some of the Gulf War illnesses contain hemorragic fever viruses. Some Gulf War veterans have called me and have said that they are bleeding from every part of their body. It is similar to the Ebola virus, but it takes two years to kill them - slowly. How many of you have seen the movie Outbreak? That is your homework.

Were the 1995 Chicago Heat Wave Deaths Really Something Else?
Why am I concerned about this? I was having lunch with Peter Kawaja, and I noticed this article in USA Today, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Remember when there was that period of incredible heatwaves in Chicago and all these people were dying? Well, look here in this article, where it shows lines of refrigerated trucks brought in to store bodies. Since when did we have so many bodies that we had to put them in trucks? This is the part that concerns me: The bodies were stored in nine donated refrigerated trucks that were to be destroyed after use. Now, if we went and destroyed every hospital and funeral home after a body was in there, we wouldn't have much left, would we? Why would they want to destroy the trucks? Were they contaminated? Was there a disease? I don't know. All I know is that when you read material in the newspaper, check it out very carefully. Ask questions! Don't assume they are telling you the whole story.

US Ships Enough Biological Agents To Iraq to Kill the Entire Planet
(Slide Shown) Now, this was faxed to me by people in Britain. Remember that we said that this new Anthrax toxin could kill 500,000 people with an amount on the head of a pin? United States companies shipped Saddam Hussein 1,500 gallons of Anthrax. It had already been loaded into bombs and missile warheads in Baghdad. Out of 39 tons of biological warfare agents imported by Iraq from the United States, each ton could have produced ten tons of biological warfare material. How much does he need, anyway?

The Post Gulf-War Emergence of Flesh-Eating Bacteria
Over 50,000 US and British troops have suffered symptoms, ranging from broken down immune systems to wasting flesh. How many of you have heard of flesh-eating bacteria? Didn't hear about it before the Gulf War, did you? Wonder why? It's part of it. Some of the Gulf War babies are born with flesh-eating bacteria already hard at work. US Government Increases Budget to Bury Veterans But Denies Them Money for Assistance.

(Slide Shown) This is an article from a British newspaper. It says, "the US Defense Department has increased its budget for burial of Gulf War veterans." They haven't announced this too widely in the United States, have they? That's what they are doing. They are denying the problem exists, denying that biological weapons were used, and increasing the capability to bury people. How can we treat people like this?

The Attempt to Bring George Bush to a War Crimes Tribunal Thwarted by US "Justice" Department in 1993
Did you know that George Bush was almost brought up before a Grand Jury? He was subpoenaed in an illegal export case that involved shipment of biological agents to Saddam Hussein. You didn't know about that, did you? He was. In 1993 the "Justice Department" said, "he doesn't have to do it." George Bush was brought up before a war crimes tribunal. You didn't know about that either, right? Get the book by Ramsey Clark.

Emergence of Post-Gulf War Biological Problems Coincides With Massive National Injection Programs
So, what are we doing in America? We are inoculating everybody. Why? Why is the government so big on inoculating everybody. Every newspaper in the country had a front page color picture of inoculation. They are trying to justify it. Why? In Houston, you can drive down a certain street where they have nurses lined up along the street. You put your arm out the window of the car and they inject you. Why? America, we have to stop holding out our arms to anybody that comes along and says, "We're from the government. We are going to help you. You need this shot". Why do I need this shot? I got too many shots during the Gulf War and I paid dearly for it. I will never do that again. Know your rights.

US Troops Inoculated Before Going to Bosnia Are Coming Down With the Same Symptoms
(Slide Shown) Why does this picture appear in the paper? They are inoculating all the troops going to Bosnia. I am just now starting to get reports from the troops in Bosnia that some of them now have the characteristic rash, which is a cardinal clinical sign of the Gulf War Illness. Its the only sign you can see at this early stage, until they start losing weight, their hair, and start aging.

Many people come to me when they discover that they have this rash. It's a sign of biological and chemical warfare. WE ARE DOING IT TO OUR TROOPS IN BOSNIA.

US Troops Inoculated Before Going to Somalia Are Coming Down With the Same Symptoms
The US troops that are coming back from Somalia are coming back sick, too, with all the same symptoms and problems as the Persian Gulf veterans.

Bush and Clinton "Justice Departments" Refuse to Prosecute Bioweapon Supply Companies Under the Trading With the Enemy Act
Now, I want to show you this. It appeared in Media Bypass recently. It was January 1996. In this issue, Sarah McClendon, who was a wire service person in Washington, has kind of seen the light. She is in her 80's now, but she follows every story. I want you to see what she has written, because she was a "government person" beforehand. And now, I will tell you, that she has truly "changed sides."

She writes, "Proof is building up stronger than ever that big US corporations [Editor Note: The US Government is also a corporation] made the weapons that Saddam Hussein used to kill American soldiers in the Persian Gulf War. These corporations also provided the chemical and biological weapons that the Iraqis used to make thousands of surviving soldiers ill. Both the Bush and Clinton Administration Justice Departments agreed not to prosecute for TRADING WITH THE ENEMY."

[Editor Note: Now, this is an interesting coincidence, because it is exactly what Prescott Bush and the Rockefellers did before and during World War II, when they materially and financially supported the buildup and creation of Nazi Germany, and later Communist Russia, to create extreme forms of National Socialism and International Socialism, in order to anger the planetary population, who would stamp these forms of socialism out and make way for International Corporate Capitalism, which is Global Socialism, or otherwise known as the New World Order. Any good student of history will find the prosecutions levied for Trading With the Enemy on US companies during this period in history. Don't believe any of this? Do your homework! The same people have been at it behind the scenes for the last 60 years doing the same thing. When you then see Operation Paperclip and Project 63 in action for 30 years . . . well, welcome to the covert 4th Reich in disguise. All the research is in Matrix III Volume Two, of what they are doing, how they are doing it and why. Read it and understand. Everything is there.]

You have heard about the Trading With the Enemy Act? Guess who has really been trading with the enemy? Now they are being openly accused of it. The Media Bypass article continues: "The buildup of Iraq's weapons was paid for by US taxpayers, and this business was conducted for years before the Persian Gulf War, and after it started. Such trading with the enemy is tantamount to TREASON. Since when did treason become a civil case? Federal Judge Schub of Atlanta, before whom the case came during the Bush era, said in a phone call to Attorney General Janet Reno, that "anyone who believes there was not grounds for prosecution, has to believe in never-never land."

[Editor note: The Bush era has not ended. How quaint that Judge Schub should call Janet Reno, who herself is guilty of election fraud in Florida, and is a firm believer in never-never land -- without a means of self defense against tyranny, of course. Furthermore, Janet Reno cannot legally hold the position of Attorney General, because she is an agent of a foreign power and works for Interpol, which has been historically connected with rejects from Nazi Germany. Well, another human example of never clone alone, at the very least. It reminds me of the situation in Congress a few years ago when one upset Congressmen referred to others as "Reptilian Bastards"]

By the way, these items for the SCUD missiles that were given to Saddam Hussein were made in Connecticut and in Pittsburgh. The Media Bypass article continues, "Because Iraq defaulted on payment for the biological agents received from US companies, American taxpayers ended up stuck with the bill for weapons that were later used against coalition forces." Part of the reason it was covered up is that President Bush's father was involved with Brown Brothers Harriman Bank, which was involved with the transactions. [Editor Note: Leading Edge readers, see the footnotes at the bottom of the page with the extract from the Cobden Club Memorandum of 1991]

How was this cover-up of the manufacture of weapons for Iraq arranged in the United States? Bush arranged for 70% of the policy-makers in the Department of Justice to remain in their jobs when Clinton was elected. The official stance from the Justice Department is, "we cannot talk about this, because the independent prosecutor has said, through the courts, that no one is to discuss this investigation officially, until it is finished." Now, there is someone who is really giving out official information, but it doesn't come out in the media - only in Media Bypass.

Media Mistakenly Releases Truth About Doxycycline Then Issues Cover-up Stories
(Slide Shown) Ok, this just came out the other day. I was in Connecticut doing a radio show on the Gulf War issue, and I was taking a break for a commercial, when all of a sudden CBS radio comes over the main feed and says, "the Gulf War illness is found to be helped by the antibiotic Doxycycline." I couldn't believe it. We pushed the federal government to admitting this.

[Editor Note: I thought you might find it interesting that CBS has had long time connections to the Central Intelligence Agency]

I called CBS news and they faxed me the news release. I thought, "now they'll be able to get Doxycycline from the military." Guess what happens the next day. Good old Associated Press, the cover-up news agency, comes out with "Report Urges More Attention to Psychological Problems". Here we are, back again, to saying that all the symptoms are psychological. And so they had another cover-up news release that came out just this past week to cover-up the one that came out that told the truth. That's what's happening.

Here is another article which recently came out. It says, "US to Expand Presence as Persian Gulf Deterrent." On January 7th, another press release said, "The United States will expand on its already massive military presence in the Persian Gulf ". How many of you knew we still had massive military presence in the Persian Gulf? We thought the war was over. They are sending troops over there every three months, and those biological agents are still bound to the silica in the sand, and those troops are getting ill and calling me. I just got a copy of the executive order that Clinton just passed to bring in more reservists into active service. Why are they doing that, I wonder. Through the use of Executive Orders, they are signing away all our rights. This is what concerns me. Look at this. Executive Order 10011 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions. Is that what we are going to do now, with this incredible problem we've got?

The Convention on Biological Diversity: Nature Worship A State Religion
(Slide Shown) This is the Convention on Biological Diversity. I just got a copy of this, and I don't know how many of you have seen this. I think that you would be interested in knowing what it calls for. Guess what they want to do? Objective: To make nature worship a state religion. To make man equal to all other species. Now, when you start getting really involved, the way I am now, there are a lot of people that don't want you to do it. I got this letter from the Department of the Navy, which is the closest station to where I am, and they said, "Dear Captain Riley, Our desire is to medically evaluate you, as soon as possible." You'll have to catch me, and I don't think you're going to.

Sexually Transmitted Cancer
Peter Kawaja has been talking about this. Guess what. This just came out on 10/10/95. There is such a thing as sexually transmitted cancer. Isn't it strange that all these things we've been talking about are now coming out? Let me tell you about Peter Kawaja. He operated under a government code name. The reason he did this is that he found out that biological agents were being made in the United States, and he was aware of the fact that it was essentially treason, and that it was wrong, and he went to the CIA, FBI and US Customs and told them that this was going on.

Product Ingredient Technology and Dr. Barbouti
He told them that "they are making biological agents in Boca Raton, Florida, and that they are being used for germ warfare." The government then said to him to let them know everything he found out, and they wanted to stay on top of it. Peter was a security systems person that was hired to do security contracts. In doing so, he was able to see what was happening at this plant, called P.I.T, the Product Ingredient Technology plant. This plant was a project of Dr. Barbouti, who is from Houston. His son still lives in Houston. Dr. Barbouti had been involved in the (illegal) sales of arms to Iraq, had originally built the biological warfare plant in Libya, had come to the United States and had cloned the Libyan plant in Boca Raton, Florida. They said they were making a cherry flavoring there. That was the cover story. Well, he got a letter after he signed the contract to do the security arrangement. In the letter, PIT stated that "we forgot to tell you that we need a cyanide detection system."

Now, if Saddam Hussein had wanted to kill our soldiers, he would have just outright killed them with mustard or cyanide, right? That wasn't the plan. The plan was to give them a long-term illness that they would bring back to their families. What better way to give a country a disease than to give it to the military, who move all over the country. This was an experiment in biological warfare. Well, this cyanide that was to be made in Boca Raton was for Prussian Blue, which is a hydrogen cyanide derivative, and the purpose for its manufacture was that it was placed in the SCUD rockets with the biochemical substances. When the missile blew up, the Prussian Blue would deteriorate the materials of which the gas masks were made, especially the filters. So, even if they did put their protective gear on, it wouldn't work. All the time, they thought the chemical suits were protecting them. Again, this Prussian Blue was made by a company in the United States.

The Bush Administration Response to Discovery
When Peter Kawaja continued to get this information and found out about all of this, he then did something the government did not expect him to do. He wire tapped all the telephones at the PIT plant. He wire tapped all the phones at the corporate living quarters of the International Headquarters of IBI International (Ishan Barbouti International). When he wiretapped all of these phones, he heard Congressmen, officials in the Bush administration, high-level world officials, and he found out that he had been had - that this was a joint venture with the United States government. Now, they realized that he had tapped the phone lines, and they served him with a "War Powers Act Subpoena" - the first one ever issued since World War II. It takes an Executive Order from the President to issue this. They came to his business with armed guards and took all his recordings, documents - everything. This is significant. He was not served with the affidavit of the search warrant to go along with it, all of this evidence remains at the Department of Justice and it is being held under "national security" until "the investigation" is "complete."

What the British Press Knew in 1991 That Americans Did Not
However, look what came out of the British press. On January 17, 1991. Let me show you how much information the British press had. Look at this, "Boca Plant begins trail to Washington." You see, what Peter Kawaja did is that he sent a FedEx letter to the NSA telling them terrorists were in the United States making biological weapons, and he wanted President Bush to know. That is when they came and took his documents. Here are more British headlines, "Congress Probes Linking Gates to Arms Deal" and "Barbouti Acted in Accord with US Plan Toward Iraq" and "Gates and Secord Linked to Iraqi Pipeline". Down here, in the Financial Times of London, July 3, 1991, there is an article "US Cyanide Shipped to Iraq Despite Warnings to CIA", and "Iraqi's Florida Plant Tied to Poison Gas: Export of Chemical Feared". Ishan Barbouti, by the way, died one week before the war began. He is buried under eight feet of cement, "for religious purposes", in London.

The Federal Lawsuit Against the Perpetrators
(Slide Shown) This is a lawsuit that Peter Kawaja has filed in the Southern District Court of Florida. He is charging war crimes against the Bush administration. He has filed a lawsuit against 100 federal agents. I will show you part of what he has done. He has accused them of war crimes, concealment, conspiracy, corruption, aiding and abetting, fraud, obstruction of justice, tampering with a witness, and more. You see, he was called three times to be a witness for a Federal Grand Jury against Barbouti. There is a lot that we can't go into because of time. He is doing this Pro Se, by the way. It has been in the system for two years now, and he has kept it there. He is saying that they attempted to conceal US Government dealings with terrorists and terrorist nations - the same terrorists the Bush administration had publicly declared war against. Under item "I" in this lawsuit, it reads, "to conceal from the American public, and from American forces, and their families, who were knowingly placed in harms way, that the same terrorist nations the Bush administration had declared war against, had acquired new weapons of mass destruction from the United States, which American forces could not defend against." This information is in the court system, and Peter needs support. We are aware of this case, and we are going to be watching this case. By the way, when he filed this lawsuit against the US Government, they didn't come back and deny anything. They simply said "we deserve immunity, because we are the United States Government."

(Slide Shown) This is part of the deposition of one of the agents involved. It says here, "I can assure you that if drums of cyanide left our plant, Dr. Barbouti had his reasons, either to be used against American troops or terrorist acts against the United States at home." It is amazing to see this in a deposition.

The Clinton Cover-up and the Psychotropic Drugging of Poisoned Veterans
So, Peter Kawaja sent all the information to President Clinton on September 4, 1994. Clinton then started a "Presidential Advisory Task Force". I don't know if you have heard anything about this or not, but it is a whitewash and cover-up. It is incredible that they are making the American people think that they are really looking into the Gulf War illness. They called me the other day, and asked me, "can you tell us what you think is causing the Gulf War illness?" I said, it doesn't make any difference what I think. Twelve thousand troops are already dead, and you need to be finding out what's doing it. We all know what is doing it - biological and chemical warfare. They said, "well, we can't pinpoint exactly what virus or bacteria is causing the problem, so we can't treat it." I said, you say you don't know what causes cancer, but you treat that!" It is amazing that they are taking this stance, dragging their feet, and trying to make the Gulf War vets feel that it is "their fault." You have 23 year-old Marines that are being told it is "all in your head" and being placed on Prozac and other psychotropic drugs. They have been sedated. I had one young man call me, and he was practically drooling, and he said, "please don't stop doing what you are doing". I said, what I need is to have the Gulf War veterans behind me. He said, "I'm so sedated, I couldn't get angry if I wanted to." That's the problem. They have either given them the psychotropic drugs, or they have bought them off with a 10% disability, $89 per month, which makes them feel like they are getting something they deserve.

America has been lied to, and it is going to stop. We have to get to the mainstream. I would encourage you to contact your Congressman and your newspapers. Do not let this stop. I want to see letters from your Senators either admitting or denying all of this. If they were in office in 1994, they have been exposed to the Reigle Report.

In closing, I want to say that we need your prayers, and the veterans need your prayers. I am only here as a messenger. I am just one person that is not going to be quiet about this. I am not going to let our Gulf War veterans die and suffer without American knowing what happened to them. Please do what you can to get the word out. gulf.htm

You can view this information at: http://www.all-natural.com/riley.htm

it's quite interesting

[tom dick harry]

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

Not in such literal terms, if you've read my posts you'd understand that.

There can be no denying that the economic and political power is held amongst a very small minority.

Yeah, I have, but that term is moronic, and signifies much that is wrong with left wing politics. And as for political and economic power... Does the (largely under-educated) majority deserve to hold this power? Are they fit for such a role? (just an opinion btw, not necessarily something I believe in)

[dr_sinister1001]

Originally Posted by tom dick harry

Yeah, I have, but that term is moronic, and signifies much that is wrong with left wing politics. And as for political and economic power... Does the (largely under-educated) majority deserve to hold this power? Are they fit for such a role? (just an opinion btw, not necessarily something I believe in)

I think the term 'the man' is more satire than anything else.

But do the uneducated public deserve control of their destiny? Not in their present state, but I do believe in educating the masses. The majority of the population including the majority of those that seek post secondary education have one track minds. This is a product of indoctrination of culture. The culture of the west is collective, each person has their 'role' and they should be content with their contribution to society, and this sort of mind set will keep the proletarian in his place.

Intellectuals on the other hand are somewhat modern day renascence men, jacks of all trades (not literally of course, but to a certain degree), these men are truly aware of the big picture because their minds are not focused into pin holes or niches. I honestly believe a world run by intellectuals is more promising than a world run by thugs, warlords, and theocrats.

[tom dick harry]

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

I think the term 'the man' is more satire than anything else.

But do the uneducated public deserve control of their destiny? Not in their present state, but I do believe in educating the masses. The majority of the population including the majority of those that seek post secondary education have one track minds. This is a product of indoctrination of culture. The culture of the west is collective, each person has their 'role' and they should be content with their contribution to society, and this sort of mind set will keep the proletarian in his place.

Intellectuals on the other hand are somewhat modern day renascence men, jacks of all trades (not literally of course, but to a certain degree), these men are truly aware of the big picture because their minds are not focused into pin holes or niches. I honestly believe a world run by intellectuals is more promising than a world run by thugs, warlords, and theocrats.

Lol... Tell that to someone like Ken Kesey, though I get your point.

Your point kind of lost it's way when you got to the part about intellectuals. A world of intellectuals for the benefit of mankind makes a little sense on some level, BUT... This implies that the state of good leadership involves intellectuals at the helm. The two, as according to the point you make, become intertwined. Sound leadership = Intellectual rule. Thus, firstly, how are we to define what is an intellectual? Secondly, if it takes an intellectual to recognise an intellectual (the rest of society being too dim to know one, given their own semi-wretched state), this implies rule close to a hereditary leadership similar to that portrayed in Plato's Republic. And, if you know your history, that tome was one of the inspirations for much right wing nationalistic fervour (Plato's Utopia being very similar in vein to political ideals such as Hitler's Aryan race)... And besides, intellectuals choosing intellectuals sounds 'sinisterly' like that cultural indoctrination you seemed to abhor (culture, like 'intellectuality', being an ideal).

[dr_sinister1001]

Originally Posted by tom dick harry

Lol... Tell that to someone like Ken Kesey, though I get your point.

Your point kind of lost it's way when you got to the part about intellectuals. A world of intellectuals for the benefit of mankind makes a little sense on some level, BUT... This implies that the state of good leadership involves intellectuals at the helm. The two, as according to the point you make, become intertwined. Sound leadership = Intellectual rule. Thus, firstly, how are we to define what is an intellectual? Secondly, if it takes an intellectual to recognise an intellectual (the rest of society being too dim to know one, given their own semi-wretched state), this implies rule close to a hereditary leadership similar to that portrayed in Plato's Republic. And, if you know your history, that tome was one of the inspirations for much right wing nationalistic fervour (Plato's Utopia being very similar in vein to political ideals such as Hitler's Aryan race)... And besides, intellectuals choosing intellectuals sounds 'sinisterly' like that cultural indoctrination you seemed to abhor (culture, like 'intellectuality', being an ideal).

How are we to define what is an intellectual? We need not define them, for there is no clear definition; however the current definition of intellectual is not fitting, for it is usually associated with those who only specialize in the humanities and political sciences, the universe is much more complicated than philosophy from the 3rd century BC. But in my opinion an intellectual is someone with a large knowledge base, who thinks outside of the cultural norm and is in effect immune to cultural indoctrination. The culture is for the proletariat, the intellectual is only concerned with ideas and their applications.

A ruling class of philosopher-kings is certainly more progressive than a ruling class of barbarians, so I agree with Plato. I think it is plainly evident who the masses are and who the intellectuals are in any society.

Take this forum for example; it is overtly clear which members immerse themselves in ‘pop-culture’ and superficialities and those who are concerned with the ideas and issues of the world today. The former being the proletariat (they usually post on the GC) and the latter being the intellectuals (they usually post on the SD) *since this is RD I’m using intellectual in very vague terms*. But my point is, the majority will always be sheep to the minority, so we might as well have intelligent Shepherds.

[tom dick harry]

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

How are we to define what is an intellectual? We need not define them, for there is no clear definition; however the current definition of intellectual is not fitting, for it is usually associated with those who only specialize in the humanities and political sciences, the universe is much more complicated than philosophy from the 3rd century BC. But in my opinion an intellectual is someone with a large knowledge base, who thinks outside of the cultural norm and is in effect immune to cultural indoctrination. The culture is for the proletariat, the intellectual is only concerned with ideas and their applications.

There may be aspects of culture that can be deemed worthy of the intellectual though, no? Take someone like Stephen Bayley. He has an extremely broad knowledge base, but see's it fit to apply his intellect to new directions for existing culture (his integration of modern architectural and design theory into the pre-80s stuffy culture, with it's still dominant tastes for all that was 'classical').

And the need for a defenition is most definitely a need if you are to apply it to the subject of a ruling class. No matter how unworthy a particular section of society may be, the fact you would have them ruled by 'intellectuals' makes it a priority that those who are deemed intellectual are actually that. Their must be a criterion of judgement (which is universal in nature) in order to justify this type of governance. And as I hinted at, one mans intellectual may be another mans fool. Now if you were to make it a process of a chosen band of intellectuals choosing the future intellectuals who are to take charge, this allows much leway for corruption. Case in point: Lenin and Trotsky. Trotsky was an infintely more charismatic politician, and a much greater intellect. Lenin, though, had greater strength of ambition. Lenin would have it that power was to be seized, and then a true people's rule could be instated. Trotsky felt that this would leave a dangerous vacuum for dictatorship, and that the true Communist manifesto called for the people to take power WHEN they were ready. This meant educating the people in the ways of the state. But Lenin's path was the shorter to power, and once in power he was the one to decide who was a true 'comrade', and who was not. And he deemed Trotsky to be 'not'. And this despite Trotsky's laedership of the workers revolt in Moscow in 1905 (I think?), which was probably the greatest victory and finest example of the real Communist manifesto before Lenin took power. And herein we have the danger of a priveliged class being allowed the power of the land. Who do we decide is good, and who is bad? Who is intellectual, and who is not?

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

A ruling class of philosopher-kings is certainly more progressive than a ruling class of barbarians, so I agree with Plato. I think it is plainly evident who the masses are and who the intellectuals are in any society.

Who says those in rule now are the barbarians? If they are the barbarians, what are the working classes (if they were allowed power)? And no it is not plainly clear who societies intellectuals are. Again I refer to Stephen Bayley, and his work Taste. This is relevant exactly because my point so far is: To judge your preffered state of rule is all a matter of taste. Today we have a society which is clear in its acknowledgement of the talents of people like Shakespeare, El Greco etc. But these people, though feited today, have had a chequered history when it comes to the appreciation of their work. A mere two hundred years ago, as Bayley points out in his work, Shakespeare was frowned upon, and El Greco seen as an extremely limited talent. A year ago, when his retrospective went up in London, El Greco was hailed almost universally as THE Master. Judgement is fickle, and is far too subjective to be able to universalise.

It is this failure to pinpoint what is intellect and what is not that makes your desired mode of governance so dangerous. Plato favoured the rule of 'guardians', of the intellectual minority. He chose as his example to the world Dionysus. Dionysus subsequently became known as 'The Tyrant of Syracuse', and was a damning reflection of Plato's theories more than anything else.

Also, you may argue that artists (as in the examples of El Greco and Shakespeare) are merely part of culture, and thus don't hold weight when it comes to your pov, as you have already denounced culture. But I would contend that people such as Shakespeare play an integral part in matters of the intellect. You may say this cannot be so, as Shakespeare is taught, and thus the student who learns him is taking on board established cultural pov's. I would say 'But what of the student who discovers Shakespeare on his own?' (as I did; I hated that shit in school, and nearly got kicked out off english lit for my 'excellent' participation. In short, I pretty much learned jack there). Now I find Shakespeare's work to reflect much of what is asked in pure Philosophical ethics.

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

Take this forum for example; it is overtly clear which members immerse themselves in ‘pop-culture’ and superficialities and those who are concerned with the ideas and issues of the world today. The former being the proletariat (they usually post on the GC) and the latter being the intellectuals (they usually post on the SD) *since this is RD I’m using intellectual in very vague terms*. But my point is, the majority will always be sheep to the minority, so we might as well have intelligent Shepherds.

Your point about those who post in GC and SD is also misleading. What about people like Irreligious Left, Bill, Napalm et al...? These people post in both (Irreligious in fact maybe more so in GC than in SD). They are all excellent contributors to SD. At the end of the day you seem to desire not only the rule of a priveliged intellectual class, but for that class to be totally uninvolved in the real goings-on of those they would rule. This smacks of hypocrisy and reeks of danger. To rule anyone fairly, surely you must (at worst) have an idea of the lives of the ruled, or (at best) be directly involved and know those you rule. Complete detachment breeds contempt, and contempt breeds injustice. Then we have the situation of Stalinist Russia, of agit-prop. We create a breeding ground for men of tyranny who claim to be 'men of the people'.

It may not be the greatest piece of work in Cinema, but their is a nice line in Gladiator where Derek Jacobi's Senator exclaims to another Senator "I may not claim to be a 'man of the people, but at least I try to be a man for the people". No doubt we must have the best of men in positions of power. But they shouldn't be just the best in intellect, but also the best in ethical service. In my view your method would not create a system where we have the best men leading through a desire to help, but merely a breed of men who lead because they have power bestowed upon them through unfounded means. And history has shown (through the Devine Right of Kings, through Lenin's Communism, through aristocracy) that such a state of rule can lead to immeasurable pain for the (in many cases) undeserving masses. It's Romanticism of the worst kind, the grace and power of the wolf admired as it tears the sheep to pieces.

[dr_sinister1001]

Originally Posted by tom dick harry

There may be aspects of culture that can be deemed worthy of the intellectual though, no? Take someone like Stephen Bayley. He has an extremely broad knowledge base, but see's it fit to apply his intellect to new directions for existing culture (his integration of modern architectural and design theory into the pre-80s stuffy culture, with it's still dominant tastes for all that was 'classical').

This point I disagree with, Architecture is not pop-culture. When has the common person ever commented on the aesthetics of a building? Of course art is one aspect of intellectualism, however most of pop-culture is not art, it’s tasteless and engineered for the masses. Pop-culture is an amplification of basic human emotions to a level where the message is so obvious we take it in subconsciously. We need people of all intellectual capacities at the ‘helm’ as you put it, and this is why there are institutions like the CFR and various other ‘expert groups’. Do I agree with all of their recommendations? Not necessarily, but that is a different discussion. I myself prescribe to the Fabianist philosophy much like your buddy Blair.

And the need for a defenition is most definitely a need if you are to apply it to the subject of a ruling class. No matter how unworthy a particular section of society may be, the fact you would have them ruled by 'intellectuals' makes it a priority that those who are deemed intellectual are actually that. Their must be a criterion of judgement (which is universal in nature) in order to justify this type of governance.

We need not define them, because rule in our free market society is much like the market itself. It will automatically clear; the intellectuals will always be the ones holding the reigns steering society in the proper direction.

And as I hinted at, one mans intellectual may be another mans fool.

You’re either intelligent or you’re not, your contribution to the world will demonstrate this fact. So that statement is incorrect.

Now if you were to make it a process of a chosen band of intellectuals choosing the future intellectuals who are to take charge, this allows much leway for corruption.

I agree, but the system doesn’t work that way, to understand the free market western culture (which is not as different from socialism as it may immediately seem) you need to understand economics. Where there are limited resources, there will always be disparity, free market economics ensures that everyone who contributes to society receives a piece of the pie. A class system is necessary to ensure that resources are used wisely, unfortunately a product of pop-culture creates this class of bourgeoisie who are neither intellectuals nor proletariat but they are integral to keeping pop-culture (cultural indoctrination) alive, we call them ‘entertainers’.

Who says those in rule now are the barbarians? If they are the barbarians, what are the working classes (if they were allowed power)? And no it is not plainly clear who societies intellectuals are. Again I refer to Stephen Bayley, and his work Taste. This is relevant exactly because my point so far is: To judge your preffered state of rule is all a matter of taste. Today we have a society which is clear in its acknowledgement of the talents of people like Shakespeare, El Greco etc. But these people, though feited today, have had a chequered history when it comes to the appreciation of their work. A mere two hundred years ago, as Bayley points out in his work, Shakespeare was frowned upon, and El Greco seen as an extremely limited talent. A year ago, when his retrospective went up in London, El Greco was hailed almost universally as THE Master. Judgement is fickle, and is far too subjective to be able to universalise.

I never said those in rule today were barbarians, not in the sphere of western civilization at least. I think western hegemony over the world has been due to the intellectual revolution (namely Britain) happening at a much earlier period while the rest of the world was still under monarchic or theocratic rule. When people have freedom to move up the social ladder then the natural path would be for the brightest to rise to the top, regardless of peoples ‘taste’. We’re not talking about some painting here, we’re talking about society and the reality is that the common man’s taste has never had an effect in such matters. I do believe that democracy is an illusion, but do the masses really deserve to dictate major policy?

Also, you may argue that artists (as in the examples of El Greco and Shakespeare) are merely part of culture, and thus don't hold weight when it comes to your pov, as you have already denounced culture. But I would contend that people such as Shakespeare play an integral part in matters of the intellect. You may say this cannot be so, as Shakespeare is taught, and thus the student who learns him is taking on board established cultural pov's. I would say 'But what of the student who discovers Shakespeare on his own?' (as I did; I hated that shit in school, and nearly got kicked out off english lit for my 'excellent' participation. In short, I pretty much learned jack there). Now I find Shakespeare's work to reflect much of what is asked in pure Philosophical ethics.

Public opinion of Shakespeare is irrelevant in the grand scheme; his work while it may contain philosophy ahead of its time was not crucial to the advancement of men. Shakespeare cannot be compared to Newton, Galileo (he may have been imprisoned by the church but only because his ideas were making waves.), or Archimedes whose genius was realized even by his contemporaries. Philosophy and art while important are not the callings of a true intellectual. Application and progressive endeavors are what should occupy the minds of the ruling class.

Your point about those who post in GC and SD is also misleading. What about people like Irreligious Left, Bill, Napalm et al...? These people post in both (Irreligious in fact maybe more so in GC than in SD). They are all excellent contributors to SD. At the end of the day you seem to desire not only the rule of a priveliged intellectual class, but for that class to be totally uninvolved in the real goings-on of those they would rule. This smacks of hypocrisy and reeks of danger. To rule anyone fairly, surely you must (at worst) have an idea of the lives of the ruled, or (at best) be directly involved and know those you rule. Complete detachment breeds contempt, and contempt breeds injustice. Then we have the situation of Stalinist Russia, of agit-prop. We create a breeding ground for men of tyranny who claim to be 'men of the people'.

I think you know what I meant, obviously it’s not so clear-cut, especially on RD, but the fact remains the masses will always be interested in the pursuit of superficial happiness while the minority of intellectuals will be concerned with the ideas. Sometimes wolves are necessary, when all sheep can do is follow.

[tom dick harry]

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

This point I disagree with, Architecture is not pop-culture. When has the common person ever commented on the aesthetics of a building?

Recent projects such as the Tate Modern, the Millenium Dome, even Daniel Libeskind's new project for the 'Freedom Tower', are actually of great public interest, and gain much TV air time. Is this not the common person's interest reflected through media? Imo, you don't need the common man walking around saying "Ooh, look at that building" for it to be of popular interest. When magazine's such as The Face, a mainstream 'fashion' magazine (and lets face it, fashion is a chief propogator of 'pop culture'), can dedicate issues to architecture, that makes the subject (on some level) pretty 'pop'. That's the post-modern effect; it's not the type of medium which decides wether something is 'pop' or not, it's how you address it.

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

Of course art is one aspect of intellectualism, however most of pop-culture is not art, it’s tasteless and engineered for the masses. Pop-culture is an amplification of basic human emotions to a level where the message is so obvious we take it in subconsciously.

Most of pop-culture is not art? That's a bold statement in the face of the path that art trod in the latter half of the 20th C. Sure, you may not find Warhol or Koons particularly edifying, but the predominant subject of 'high' art in the last 50 years has been popular culture. What was the most successful art movement of the last decade in fact? BritArt, which is about as 'pop' as you get (ie, when the subject for the recent Royal Portrait Gallery was discussed, guess who's face was chosen? David Beckham, the biggest celebrity in Britain, and one of the highest profile sportsmen in the world).

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

We need people of all intellectual capacities at the ‘helm’ as you put it, and this is why there are institutions like the CFR and various other ‘expert groups’. Do I agree with all of their recommendations? Not necessarily, but that is a different discussion. I myself prescribe to the Fabianist philosophy much like your buddy Blair

We need not define them, because rule in our free market society is much like the market itself. It will automatically clear; the intellectuals will always be the ones holding the reigns steering society in the proper direction.

Firstly, Blair is a fool, though he plays his brand of politics brilliantly. Secondly, you seem to adhere to a 'cream rising to the top' mentality. While I do agree with this on the whole, it isn't true always. And the most painful example of this is the moron incumbent in the White House. The real 'intellect' isn't that buffoon, but the people behind him. And this is another example of the problem with 'intellectuals' being given free reign of power as a right. Much of American foriegn policy has been, since the 70s, the story of Neo Con ideals (as you most probably know). Slowly it has risen to take the top seat, both as ideal and as the nations primary concern, in a time when American foriegn policy is the prime agenda politically. It isn't mere coincidence that the Neo Cons are in government (imo, Clinton was a blip, largely 'cus he was a brilliant politician and opportunist). They have slowly manoeuvred themeselves and their politics to the forefront of the American psyche. And this in the face of so much questionable political decision making on their behalf (Kissinger alone is worth about 3 counts of international terrorism). It's that danger I spoke of in my previous post, and this type of danger will always be exploited when we talk politics. At the end of the day politics is an ethical 'game', and ethics can only prove themselves successful as ideals through argument and persuasion, and when the stakes are so high a 'natural' outcome is corruption.

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

You’re either intelligent or you’re not, your contribution to the world will demonstrate this fact. So that statement is incorrect.

Yeah? Like I mentioned, try convincing the world that when they thought El Greco was a half-wit artist, or Shakespeare middle of the road...

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

I agree, but the system doesn’t work that way, to understand the free market western culture (which is not as different from socialism as it may immediately seem) you need to understand economics. Where there are limited resources, there will always be disparity, free market economics ensures that everyone who contributes to society receives a piece of the pie. A class system is necessary to ensure that resources are used wisely...,

You've taken my top-down pov (which is relevant because we are discussing a state of rule, with it's pro's and con's), and made it bottom-up. I understand that within a free market all members who contribute recieve a 'piece of the pie'. That is not the problem. The problem is that to create a ruling class dependant on something as flimsy as 'intellect' is to open up those who should 'ensure that resources are used wisely' to a thought-process which doesn't particularly press that home. This is reflected in the history of Communist Russia, of Industrialist Britain etc. Even in Industrial Britain, yes it's true everyone recieved a piece of the pie. Shame those at the bottom of the pile were barely alive long enough to even enjoy the meagre returns they recieved.

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

...unfortunately a product of pop-culture creates this class of bourgeoisie who are neither intellectuals nor proletariat but they are integral to keeping pop-culture (cultural indoctrination) alive, we call them ‘entertainers’.

I'd say that the bigger problem is the lower classes who lap this shit up and give it the life blood it needs to survive, in the face of those who see this type of 3rd rate culture as the tripe it is. And I also don't agree with your assumption that pop-culture is propogated (on the whole) by the 'entertainers'. Where is the difference between this type of culture and the type of spin-inducing government of Blair? One of the major problems that much of todays society see's with Blair's government (as relayed to me in part by an acquaintance, a member of the 'young Conservatives') is the utter dumbing down of politics that this Blair government has instigated (helped in large measure by the 'New' in Labour, which allows them to take up political middle ground, even on typical 'left' Labour issues such as trade unions and health). And there's the crux... New Labour isn't 'the bourgeoisie, it is in fact made up of upper-class, well educated men and women.

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

I never said those in rule today were barbarians, not in the sphere of western civilization at least. I think western hegemony over the world has been due to the intellectual revolution (namely Britain) happening at a much earlier period while the rest of the world was still under monarchic or theocratic rule. When people have freedom to move up the social ladder then the natural path would be for the brightest to rise to the top, regardless of peoples ‘taste’. We’re not talking about some painting here, we’re talking about society and the reality is that the common man’s taste has never had an effect in such matters. I do believe that democracy is an illusion, but do the masses really deserve to dictate major policy?

The brightest, and also the most opportunist (todays US and British govenments). The first part of the above quote is correct, with regards western hegemony. And no, we aren't talking specifically about 'some painting'. The point was that judgement in matters such as intellect is fickle and varies widely (after all it wasn't the even more uneducated proletariat who deemed El Greco unsubstantial, it was the men of learning within art at the time). And again, if the present governments of Britain and the US are anything to go by, if the history of Russian politics in the last century is anything to go by, if the history of the Medici's and the collapse of a centralised Catholic Church is anything to go by, then no, the natural path is not for 'brightest to rise to the top'. The general historical pattern has been for the most opportunist, the most ruthless, to rise to the top. Is this the path that the intellectual enlightenment of the west had in mind? Is this what Locke, Hobbes et al had in mind when they sought fairer forms of government? No way. But this is the path that western politics has trodden, on the whole, since the lofty days of these men. And the reason for this is the dangerous vacuum that is left by any pure 'intellectual' rule as de facto.

Blair is an improvement on the Medici's, but the process of reforming 'democracy' has been long and painful, and is by no means finished. The best of intellectual propositions (Hobbes Leviathan being much 'purer' in thought than any example of the 'democracies' that are based on it - We must remember that this is still the prime template for western politics) have, more often than not, been exploited by the leeway they leave for opportunism and the thirst for power. Intellectualism is by no means a guard against this, particularly when much of this idealism was supposed to be for the good of the intellectual, who would lead society out of darkness.

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

Public opinion of Shakespeare is irrelevant in the grand scheme; his work while it may contain philosophy ahead of its time was not crucial to the advancement of men. Shakespeare cannot be compared to Newton, Galileo (he may have been imprisoned by the church but only because his ideas were making waves.), or Archimedes whose genius was realized even by his contemporaries. Philosophy and art while important are not the callings of a true intellectual. Application and progressive endeavors are what should occupy the minds of the ruling class.

Art of course cannot be associated with 'application'. But much of what we see now in 'application' had its findings in philosophy, in art, in IDEAS. The callings of an 'intellectual' must invlolve, to a large extent, higher thought. Isn't it fools who act before they think?

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

I think you know what I meant, obviously it’s not so clear-cut, especially on RD, but the fact remains the masses will always be interested in the pursuit of superficial happiness while the minority of intellectuals will be concerned with the ideas. Sometimes wolves are necessary, when all sheep can do is follow.

If you believe that sheep remain sheep, and thus all they do is follow, then that's sad. If I was downtrodden, and more so, if I had life's riches wafted under my nose on a constant basis (as mass culture does these days) I too would feel agrieved, and my aggrevation would need sating. Desperate times (in any situation) can (and do) indeed call for desperate measures. And the last thing I would need is to hear of some priveleged intellectual class sowing up societies fruits for what he deems 'his kind', while we look on at their indulgence.

[dr_sinister1001]

Originally Posted by tom dick harry

Recent projects such as the Tate Modern, the Millenium Dome, even Daniel Libeskind's new project for the 'Freedom Tower', are actually of great public interest, and gain much TV air time. Is this not the common person's interest reflected through media? Imo, you don't need the common man walking around saying "Ooh, look at that building" for it to be of popular interest. When magazine's such as The Face, a mainstream 'fashion' magazine (and lets face it, fashion is a chief propogator of 'pop culture'), can dedicate issues to architecture, that makes the subject (on some level) pretty 'pop'. That's the post-modern effect; it's not the type of medium which decides wether something is 'pop' or not, it's how you address it.

Well it can also be argued that Architecture in fashion magazines while surprisingly out of place, is more of a marketing gimmick to capture the interest of the mindless demographic (something new). This is my point exactly, it’s not the art itself. It’s the mass corporatization of everything that was once deemed art. This perversion has spawned a cornucopia of bubble gum pop and other cheap tricks to keep the populace subservient in the only way the west can, through our wallets. So when the Architectural wonders of the freedom tower grace the front page of ‘Face’ magazine, it’s not because they think the audience cares, it’s because they’re telling the audience to care. It’s a gimmick and there’s nothing that the masses love more than gimmicks.

Most of pop-culture is not art? That's a bold statement in the face of the path that art trod in the latter half of the 20th C. Sure, you may not find Warhol or Koons particularly edifying, but the predominant subject of 'high' art in the last 50 years has been popular culture. What was the most successful art movement of the last decade in fact? BritArt, which is about as 'pop' as you get (ie, when the subject for the recent Royal Portrait Gallery was discussed, guess who's face was chosen? David Beckham, the biggest celebrity in Britain, and one of the highest profile sportsmen in the world).

Most of pop-culture is definitely not art; it’s a bold but true statement. What you’re defining as art, to me are merely cheap tricks.

Firstly, Blair is a fool, though he plays his brand of politics brilliantly. Secondly, you seem to adhere to a 'cream rising to the top' mentality. While I do agree with this on the whole, it isn't true always. And the most painful example of this is the moron incumbent in the White House. The real 'intellect' isn't that buffoon, but the people behind him. And this is another example of the problem with 'intellectuals' being given free reign of power as a right. Much of American foriegn policy has been, since the 70s, the story of Neo Con ideals (as you most probably know). Slowly it has risen to take the top seat, both as ideal and as the nations primary concern, in a time when American foriegn policy is the prime agenda politically. It isn't mere coincidence that the Neo Cons are in government (imo, Clinton was a blip, largely 'cus he was a brilliant politician and opportunist). They have slowly manoeuvred themeselves and their politics to the forefront of the American psyche. And this in the face of so much questionable political decision making on their behalf (Kissinger alone is worth about 3 counts of international terrorism). It's that danger I spoke of in my previous post, and this type of danger will always be exploited when we talk politics. At the end of the day politics is an ethical 'game', and ethics can only prove themselves successful as ideals through argument and persuasion, and when the stakes are so high a 'natural' outcome is corruption.

Well in any system there are holes and there is room for corruption, this stems from humans being imperfect beings, but the implications of a true democracy gone sour with mob mentality frightens me beyond anything else.

Yeah? Like I mentioned, try convincing the world that when they thought El Greco was a half-wit artist, or Shakespeare middle of the road...

Art is fickle, abstract thought is up to debate, but solutions to real world ideas are apparent as soon as they are conceived. That is the very reason I don’t include art and philosophy into intellectual requirements. Those disciplines rely not on substance but on as you said taste, while real world applications like science and economics rely on logic and reason.

You've taken my top-down pov (which is relevant because we are discussing a state of rule, with it's pro's and con's), and made it bottom-up. I understand that within a free market all members who contribute recieve a 'piece of the pie'. That is not the problem. The problem is that to create a ruling class dependant on something as flimsy as 'intellect' is to open up those who should 'ensure that resources are used wisely' to a thought-process which doesn't particularly press that home. This is reflected in the history of Communist Russia, of Industrialist Britain etc. Even in Industrial Britain, yes it's true everyone recieved a piece of the pie. Shame those at the bottom of the pile were barely alive long enough to even enjoy the meagre returns they recieved.

Intellect is only flimsy when you wander into the humanities, because frankly as humans we can’t seem to agree on anything. That’s why philosophers sit and philosophize, while economists and scientists are leading the way.

I'd say that the bigger problem is the lower classes who lap this shit up and give it the life blood it needs to survive, in the face of those who see this type of 3rd rate culture as the tripe it is. And I also don't agree with your assumption that pop-culture is propogated (on the whole) by the 'entertainers'. Where is the difference between this type of culture and the type of spin-inducing government of Blair? One of the major problems that much of todays society see's with Blair's government (as relayed to me in part by an acquaintance, a member of the 'young Conservatives') is the utter dumbing down of politics that this Blair government has instigated (helped in large measure by the 'New' in Labour, which allows them to take up political middle ground, even on typical 'left' Labour issues such as trade unions and health). And there's the crux... New Labour isn't 'the bourgeoisie, it is in fact made up of upper-class, well educated men and women.

Well, I agree on the 1st point, the lower class perpetuates this retched culture but only because they have been coerced into this cycle. I never insinuated that the entertainers (media in general) purposely propagate pop culture but that they are merely a link in the chain, ultimately the coercion comes from above (and I don’t mean god). I also never insinuated that the people who comprise the media establishment were the entire bourgeoisie but they do all fit into this category. I would go as far to even say that the heads of these media establishments are part of the ruling class.

Art of course cannot be associated with 'application'. But much of what we see now in 'application' had its findings in philosophy, in art, in IDEAS. The callings of an 'intellectual' must invlolve, to a large extent, higher thought. Isn't it fools who act before they think?

Well, I can think of no example where the ruling class has not put thought into their actions. You may argue that the Iraq war was pure incompetence on the part of the ruling class, I’d argue that they knew exactly what they were doing from the very beginning.

If you believe that sheep remain sheep, and thus all they do is follow, then that's sad. If I was downtrodden, and more so, if I had life's riches wafted under my nose on a constant basis (as mass culture does these days) I too would feel agrieved, and my aggrevation would need sating. Desperate times (in any situation) can (and do) indeed call for desperate measures. And the last thing I would need is to hear of some priveleged intellectual class sowing up societies fruits for what he deems 'his kind', while we look on at their indulgence.

A pacified population can be defined as nothing more than sheep.

[tom dick harry]

Sorry Sinister, I owe you a reply on this, but I've been busy... It shall be here sooner rather than later...

[dr_sinister1001]

Originally Posted by tom dick harry

Sorry Sinister, I owe you a reply on this, but I've been busy... It shall be here sooner rather than later...

When I saw the thread had a new response I got excited, alas I have yet to wait.

Well nevertheless, I'm eagerly waiting for your reply.

[tom dick harry]

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

When I saw the thread had a new response I got excited, alas I have yet to wait.

Well nevertheless, I'm eagerly waiting for your reply.

Hardy har har? And no, alas this is just a short 'check m e-mails' break...

[tom dick harry]

Hey Sinister, at last I get round to my reply... First of all I'm gonna say that instead of the standard 'Quote/Reply' formula, I'm going to try and summarise the arguments so far. In part this is to avoid the 'Quote/Reply' formula itself. While sometimes useful, it can also waylay the central points of an argument (as is beginning to happen now), and also there is a tendency which it creates for circular argument, whereby people just begin to repeat themselves (as is also happening).

First of all I want to address your misgivings about 'pop culture' and 'pop art'. You say:

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

Well it can also be argued that Architecture in fashion magazines while surprisingly out of place, is more of a marketing gimmick to capture the interest of the mindless demographic (something new). This is my point exactly, it’s not the art itself. It’s the mass corporatization of everything that was once deemed art. This perversion has spawned a cornucopia of bubble gum pop and other cheap tricks to keep the populace subservient in the only way the west can, through our wallets.

And:

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

Most of pop-culture is definitely not art; it’s a bold but true statement. What you’re defining as art, to me are merely cheap tricks.

The second quote is of primary importance here (and fits in with another of your prejudices; this we shall come to later). According to your opinion Marx' bias that "the dominant ideology of any age is the ideology of the ruling class" would seem a fitting catchphrase for your tastes . BUT this is an extremely one sided (and thus only partially true) opinion. Marx' work has been overtaken (with regards artistic opinion at least) by people like Antonion Gramsci and Jean Baudrillard. Gramsci acknowledged that hegemony existed, but that it was in a constant flux, with influences of differing social status (eg, education being available to all classes) effecting who exactly was the hegemon. There was always a ruling power, but as to what class this was is always debatable, as it depends on the hegemonic values of the time.

Baudrillard showed that the phenomena of Simulacra was also a major player in the forming of ideas and ideals, and hence ultimately what becomes 'valuable' and 'valued'. The effect of money in society was to equalise everything, with 'signs' of Capitalism becoming universalised (eg, servants may dress 'above' their station).

A clear sign of this effect of the erosion of classical values can be seen in the rise of advertising culture (and indeed moreso in the work of Pop Art from the '60s onwards, though we know all about that). Pretty much every advertising company of any repute nowadays had it's foundations in up and coming firms from the late '70s onwards (Saatchi & Saatchi, Bartle Bogle Hegarty etc). They did this by bringing into existing stead methods of advertising the values of alternative 'culture'. Witness the techniques of early Nike ads, of early Levi's ads (hand held camera, constructivist visuals [influenced by the likes of Neville Brody], alternative soundtracks). These all helped to bring what were deemed underground production values into a mainstream business environment, and the effects are prevelant everywhere right up to this day. Todays standard visuals within the iundustry were established by these 'radicals' and their (then) small firms over two decades ago. And the other reason why they became prevalent? Because the dominant ideology of the time was not formed by the ruling class, but by the newly moneyed masses (at least on the level of 'culture'; one not-all-bad effect of the '80s). So what is value and what is 'class' in the realm of art? It is 'as you like it', and hence your assertion that 'Most of pop-culture is definitely not art' is completely unfounded beyond your own tastes.

The second point I wish to address is your belief (or lack thereof) in the lower classes. You have called them sheep, and have also said that they should not be allowed to rule. That was never posed though. This is not a discussion about wether the masses should rule, but wether a minority of 'intellectuals' should rule by right. To question one does not indicate the belief in it's exact opposite. But the masses shouldn't be painted as mindless and useless as you seem to do. I refer to Orlando Figes, possibly the worlds foremost expert on Russian history, in particular it's revolution:

'Because of the preoccupation of many historians with the organised labour movement - and their seduction by the Soviet myth of the armed workers on the barricades - the role of this everyday criminal violence in the revolutionary crowd has been either ignored or, even more misleadingly, confused with the violence of industrial war. Yet the closer one looks at the crowds on the streets, the harder it becomes to distinguish clearly between organised forms of protest - the marching workers with banners and songs - and criminal acts of looting and violence. The one could easily - and often did - break down into the other. It was not just a question of 'hooligans' or criminals joining in labour protests or taking advantage of the chaos they created to vandalise, assault and loot. Such acts seem to have been an integral element of labour militancy, a means of asserting the power of the plebeian crowd and of despoiling and destroying symbols of wealth and privelage.What the frightened middles classes termed 'hooliganism' - mob attacks on the well-to-do and on figures of authority, looting and vandalism, drunken brawling and rioting - could just as easily be categorised as 'revolutionary acts'. And in part that is what they were: the revolutionary violence of 1905-17 was expressed in just these sorts of act. It was driven by the same feelings of hatred for the rich and all figures of authority, by the same desire of the poor and the powerless to assert themselves and claim the streets as their own. From the perspective of the propertied there was very little to distinguish between the 'rough' and 'rude' behaviour of the 'hooligans' - their cocky way of dressing, their drunkenness and vulgar language, their 'insolence'and 'licence' - and the behaviour of the revolutionary crowd. Even the most organised labour protests could, on the slightest provocation, break down into violence and looting. It was to become a major problem for all the revolutionary parties, the Bolsheviks in particular, who tried to use the violence of the crowd for their own political ends.'

Figes goes on to say:

'The purpose of their (the Marxist intelligentsia) propoganda was the education of a vanguard of 'conscious' workers - Russian Bebels like Kanatchikov, who would organise the worlking class for the coming revolution. But education did not necessarily make the workers revolutionary. On the contrary, as Kanatchikov soon discovered, most of the skilled and educated workers were more inclined to improve their lot within the capitalist system than seek to overthrow it. There was a growing tension between the mainly economic concerns of the workers and the political aims of those activists and intellectuals who would be their leaders. The Marxists were thus faced with the same dilemma which the Populists had confronted in relation to the peasentry after the mid-1870s: what should they do when the masses failed to respond to their propoganda? Whereas the Populists had been driven to isolated terrorism, the Marxists found a temporary solution to this problem in the switch from propoganda to mass agitation as a means of organising - and in the process politicising - the working class through specfic labour struggles.'

As we can see, the action of the masses is not mindless. It has just as much motive as the action of any other people. But what we do see is a questionable morality in action. The masses desire no more than comfort from a system of government which they expect to lead them. But the 'intellectuals' are the one's who act through deception, through double standards and questionable ethics. The masses ARE NOT sheep.They have desires, they want also. But more often than not they end up as pawns in the political games of 'intellectuals'. And we're not just talking about revolutionary Russia here. Look at the present day, all the spin around WMDs, the questionable use of 'intelligence' etc. Who is responsible for this? The 'intellectuals'. Look at FDR's 'New Deal', sold to the public with the use of advertising expertise. The masses aren't sheep, they are merely paralised by a false hope instilled in them by your 'intellectuals' who promise the world, put up the smokescreen to blind them, then savage them for their own pleasures and power games. But as you would have it, the intellectuals should rule by right. Can you not see that this would be an invitation for such people to just fuck with peoples lives more than ever? (the same people who don't in fact want to destroy everything in their path through a raging stupor, but just want their slightly-less-than fair share).

Finally (and most dissapointingly) you bring up what seems like a common misconception:

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

That is the very reason I don’t include art and philosophy into intellectual requirements. Those disciplines rely not on substance but on as you said taste, while real world applications like science and economics rely on logic and reason.

And:

Originally Posted by dr_sinister1001

That’s why philosophers sit and philosophize, while economists and scientists are leading the way.

Science and economics rely on reason and logic while art and philosophy don't? I've heard this from a few numbskulls in here, but I didn't think you would adhere to it to...

Philosophy is an art indeed. But it isn't logical? It contains no reasoning? Economics (by logical association) is 'scientific'? You dangerously avoid a whole area of argument here. Firstly Marx. The dude based his entire philosophy on economic factors. It does indeed contain logic, but this does not make it RIGHT, any more than it's use of the 'science' of economics. Economics is just as reliant on variables as philosophical thinking. Also if philosophy is contains no reasoning or logic, then what would you say a correct syllogism is?

Furthermore you must remember that scientific speculation came out of Philosophy (Pythagoras wasn't just a mathmetician, but an important philosopher). Maybe you're just thinking of ethics, which is a tiny part of philosophy? Maybe you so believe in inductive theory that you've fallen into the falsehood that only that which can be seen and tested is 'logical' and 'reasonable'? This type of thinking itself renders every opinion you've stated as illogical first of all, becasue the points we have made so far are more to do with ethics, morality and law than any science. But wait, you can't be illogical...

Also, if philosophy has no right to logic and reasoning, would you tar mathematics (a science) with the same brush? Because mathematics is, after all, deductive not inductive. What of the theorems deduced around astrology (by philosophers) which were backed by deductive geometry? Is Archimedes illogical because his mathmetical speculation led him to present a phiolosphy of the stars? Obviously not. As Bertrand Russel says:

'The complete answer, as regards propositions in which the word 'ten' occurs, is that, when these propositions are correctly analysed, they are found to contain no constituent corresponding to the word 'ten'. To explain this in the case of such a large number as ten would be complicated; let us, therefore, substitute 'I have two hands.' This means:

'There is an a such as there is a b such that a and b are not identical and whatever x may be, "x is a hand of mine" is true when, and only when, [i]x is a or x is b.'[/b]

Here the word 'two' does not occur. It is true that two letters aand b occur, but we do not need to know that they are two, any more than we need to know that they are black, or white, or whatever colour they may happen to be.

Thus numbers are, in a certain precise sense, formal. The facts which verify various propositions asserting that various collections each have two members, have in common, not a constituent, but a form. In this they differ from the propositions about the Statue of Liberty, or the moon, or George Washington. Such propositions refer to a particular portion of space-time; it is this that is in common between all the statements that can be made about the Statue of Liberty. But there is nothing in common among propositions 'there are two so-and-so's'except a common form. The relation of the symbol 'two'to the meaning of a proposition in which it occurs is far more complicated than the relation of the symbol 'red' to the meaning of a proposition in which it occurs. We may say, in a certain sense, that the symbol 'two' means nothing, for, when it occurs in a true statement, there is no corresponding constituent in the meaning of the statement. We may continue, if we like, to say that numbers are eternal, immutable, and so on, but we must add that they are logical fictions.'

LOGICAL FICTIONS. Much of this type of metaphysical, logical, reasoned thought has been the guiding light of science. It has also been the reason why 'God' cannot be totally denied (methinks this represents another reason for your bias against philosophy and art). Geometry has its foundations (and applied mathematics also) in philosphy, in reasoned thought, in logical questioning. Philosophy indeed is not such a prison for logic as science. Science is empiracal, it is inductive, and for this reason logic suffers. Logic does not have to be seen to be logical. There is no such thing as a perfect, eternal circle (for the reason of human error more than anything else), but mathematics works with perfect circles, perfect triangles, perfect numbers. But were it up to science, the scope of men's logic would be imprisoned to merely what he see's. What then of Pythagoras?

'Pythagoras, in all probability, was the first to think the earth spherical, but his reasons were (one must suppose) aesthetic rather than scientific. Scientific reasons, however, were soon found. Anaxagoras discovered the moon shines by reflected light, and gave the right theory of eclipses. He himself thought the earth flat, but the shape of the earth's shadow in lunar eclipses gave the Pythagoreans conclusive arguments in favour of its being spherical.'

Where would we be without the desire that goes beyond only that which we see (Pythagoras' 'aesthetic' reasoning; we might say his artistic inquisition)? To place all 'logic' in inductive, empirical science would be to assume that we have also the tools to measure all that there is to measure and quantify. But we don't. Humility is the key, but our imagination means we may speculate LOGICALLY (eg, the example of mathematics and philosophy) so as not to be totally hampered by our existing shortcomings. To philosophise, to create and imagine is just as key to the progress of mankind as is the ability to measure and quantify and lay down building blocks of knowledge. Where we cannot see, we can think. Where we can think we can build.

And finally, if philosophy is indeed not of the domain of reason and logic, where do we put civilisation? As far as I know, all of civilisation is dependant, more so than with anything else, upon law. And law is not science, but ethics. Indeed the question we are discussing is totally ancored in ethics. But ethics cannot be quantified and are so, by your judgement, the question we discuss, and all of civilisation, is unreasonable and illogical. But then that would beg the question:

What are you doing here Sinister?