To My Athiest Friends

[Black Cobra]

Luxifero is right

Allah is not the same God of all religions

God is defined in each holy book. These definitions differ from each other.

[1NazOnly1]

Originally Posted by Luxifero

The God Enstien purported to believe in was not the God of Muhhamed, nor is the God of Christians the God of Muhhamed, nor is the God of Sikhism the God of Muhhamed, nor is the God of Abraham the god of Muhhamed, nor is the God of Tribal Africans the God of Muhhamed.

Allah is not the sole god upon this planet.

Fucking dipshits.

I must say, I was partially correct when I said that you were smart and ignorant at the same time. You’re merely ignorant. Produce ur proof, you “dipshit” lolllll, sorry, I had too!
Anways, how do u come to that conclusion? You are but a mere foolish man, as you’ve shown, who thinks whatever he says is right. Alas, the truth hurts. You’re post was the most, frankly, stupidest thing I’ve EVER read. I’ll give you a suggestion, when you don’t know about a matter, it’s better not to get involved!
So here we go, My word, A Muslim, against your, rather laughable, (what seems to be) Forced, false opinion.

Rather let me give u Proof!
Quran 002.133
YUSUFALI: Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy god and the god of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam)."

Quran 002.136
YUSUFALI: Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

Satisfied ?? or are u going to make up another false statement, which has no value ?
I’m not trying to be rude, but just don’t talk about a matter u have no knowledge of, it only downsizes you.
Take care
Peace

[muslimsoldier]

Originally Posted by 1NazOnly1

I must say, I was partially correct when I said that you were smart and ignorant at the same time. You’re merely ignorant. Produce ur proof, you “dipshit” lolllll, sorry, I had too!
Anways, how do u come to that conclusion? You are but a mere foolish man, as you’ve shown, who thinks whatever he says is right. Alas, the truth hurts. You’re post was the most, frankly, stupidest thing I’ve EVER read. I’ll give you a suggestion, when you don’t know about a matter, it’s better not to get involved!
So here we go, My word, A Muslim, against your, rather laughable, (what seems to be) Forced, false opinion.

Rather let me give u Proof!
Quran 002.133
YUSUFALI: Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy god and the god of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam)."

Quran 002.136
YUSUFALI: Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

Satisfied ?? or are u going to make up another false statement, which has no value ?
I’m not trying to be rude, but just don’t talk about a matter u have no knowledge of, it only downsizes you.
Take care
Peace

heheh yea he is a dipshit, he thinks he understands islam,and thinks he knows whats islam is about, just like those other morons on rd who arnt muslims and have never actully picked up the quran. they actully still think they know more then the muslims who study the religion themselves, i think his mindsetis, if he keeps saying things over and over again people will believe him

[Luxifero]

I must say, I was partially correct when I said that you were smart and ignorant at the same time. You’re merely ignorant. Produce ur proof, you “dipshit” lolllll, sorry, I had too!
Anways, how do u come to that conclusion? You are but a mere foolish man, as you’ve shown, who thinks whatever he says is right. Alas, the truth hurts. You’re post was the most, frankly, stupidest thing I’ve EVER read. I’ll give you a suggestion, when you don’t know about a matter, it’s better not to get involved!
So here we go, My word, A Muslim, against your, rather laughable, (what seems to be) Forced, false opinion.

You never provided proof, you provided a spurious source written in the hands of a Muslim purporting it as postulate, no where is it proof of anything but it's own socio-political accord. The God of Abraham was El Shadia, the high God of Canaan; the God of the Jews -- whom seems to change through the first 5 scrolls of 'Moses'-- is Yawheh Saboath, the war God; the God of Christians, the Logos.

Rather let me give u Proof!
Quran 002.133
YUSUFALI: Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy god and the god of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam)."

I'm sorry, but:

Buqwas 20:32
Teri Ma: Then thous said to Teri Baap, be it known, the God of Yer momma is de God of Teri Ma, Phud Singh Jeet. We bow to him. Teri Ma Akbar!!!

See, goes both ways..

Anyways, my response will be limited, my fingers cut up and it hurts like a bitch,

[TrueIndiAnSOul]

Originally Posted by Luxifero

You never provided proof, you provided a spurious source written in the hands of a Muslim purporting it as postulate, no where is it proof of anything but it's own socio-political accord. The God of Abraham was El Shadia, the high God of Canaan; the God of the Jews -- whom seems to change through the first 5 scrolls of 'Moses'-- is Yawheh Saboath, the war God; the God of Christians, the Logos.




I'm sorry, but:

Buqwas 20:32
Teri Ma: Then thous said to Teri Baap, be it known, the God of Yer momma is de God of Teri Ma, Phud Singh Jeet. We bow to him. Teri Ma Akbar!!!

See, goes both ways..

Anyways, my response will be limited, my fingers cut up and it hurts like a bitch,

Daaaaamn man thas hilarious

[1NazOnly1]

Originally Posted by Luxifero

You never provided proof, you provided a spurious source written in the hands of a Muslim purporting it as postulate, no where is it proof of anything but it's own socio-political accord. The God of Abraham was El Shadia, the high God of Canaan; the God of the Jews -- whom seems to change through the first 5 scrolls of 'Moses'-- is Yawheh Saboath, the war God; the God of Christians, the Logos.

I did provide proof. You claimed that the God of Abraham is not the God of Mohammad (pbuh) nor the God of the Jews, Thus i was tickled and thought i'd enlighten you with Proof that our religions pray to the same GOD/Allah (swt)
I suppose u were confused...it's all good.

I'm sorry, but:

Buqwas 20:32
Teri Ma: Then thous said to Teri Baap, be it known, the God of Yer momma is de God of Teri Ma, Phud Singh Jeet. We bow to him. Teri Ma Akbar!!!

See, goes both ways..

Why are you speaking in another language?....what u wrote was "Buqwas" lol, because it is all u could come up with! That's pretty daffy, loll, and of the most weakest comparison....yet again, what u say has no worth when compared to what God/Allah swt says. I know u understand English.

Anyways, my response will be limited, my fingers cut up and it hurts like a bitch,

I suppose it’s a habit for you to be messing around with things you should not be messing around with.
Are u atheist? Pray, it's all good lol

[royalbengaltiger]

As people have certainly been influenced by me, I want to try and correct the enormous damage I may have done." (Anthony Flew)

The newspapers these days are echoing with these regret-filled words by Anthony Flew, in his time a well-known atheist philosopher. The 81-year-old British professor of philosophy Flew chose to become an atheist at the age of 15, and first made a name for himself in the academic field with a paper published in 1950. In the 54 years that followed, he defended atheism as a teacher at the universities of Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele and Reading, at many American and Canadian universities he visited, in debates, books, lecture halls and articles. In recent days, however, Flew has announced that he has abandoned this error and accepts that the universe was created.

The decisive factor in this radical change of view is the clear and definitive evidence revealed by science on the subject of creation. Flew realised, in the face of the information-based complexity of life, that the true origin of life is intelligent design and that the atheism he had espoused for 66 years was a discredited philosophy.

Flew announced the scientific reasons underlying this change in belief in these terms:

"Biologists' investigation of DNA has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce [life], that intelligence must have been involved." (1)

"It has become inordinately difficult even to begin to think about constructing a naturalistic theory of the evolution of that first reproducing organism." (2)

"I have been persuaded that it is simply out of the question that the first living matter evolved out of dead matter and then developed into an extraordinarily complicated creature." (3)

The DNA research which Flew cites as a fundamental reason for his change of opinion has indeed revealed striking facts about creation. The helix shape of the DNA molecule, its possession of the genetic code, the nucleotide strings that refute blind chance, the storage of encyclopaedic quantities of information and many other striking findings have revealed that the structure and functions of this molecule were arranged for life with a special design. Comments by scientists concerned with DNA research bear witness to this fact.

Francis Crick, for instance, one of the scientists who revealed the helix shape of DNA admitted in the face of the findings regarding DNA that the origin of life indicated a miracle:

An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going. (4)

Based on his calculations, Led Adleman of the University of Southern California in Los Angeles has stated that one gram of DNA can store as much information as a trillion compact discs. (5) Gene Myers, a scientist employed on the Human Genome Project, has said the following in the face of the miraculous arrangements he witnessed:


"What really astounds me is the architecture of life… The system is extremely complex. It's like it was designed… There's a huge intelligence there." (6)

The most striking fact about DNA is that the existence of the coded genetic information can definitely not be explained in terms of matter and energy or natural laws. Dr. Werner Gitt, a professor at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology, has said this on the subject:

A code system is always the result of a mental process… It should be emphasized that matter as such is unable to generate any code. All experiences indicate that a thinking being voluntarily exercising his own free will, cognition, and creativity, is required… There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to information, neither is any physical process or material phenomenon known that can do this. (7)

Creationist scientists and philosophers played a major role in Flew's acceptance of intelligent design, backed up by all these findings. In recent times Flew participated in debates with scientists and philosophers who were proponents of creation, and exchanged ideas with them. The final turning point in that process was a discussion organised by the Institute for Metascientific Research in Texas in May, 2003. Flew participated together with author Roy Abraham Varghese, Israeli physicist and molecular biologist Gerald Schroeder, and Roman Catholic philosopher John Haldane. Flew was impressed by the weight of the scientific evidence in favour of creation and by the convincing nature of his opponents' arguments, and abandoned atheism as an idea in the period following that discussion. In a letter he wrote for the August-September, 2003, edition of the British magazine Philosophy Now, he recommended Schroeder's book "The Hidden Face of God: Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth" and Varghese's book "The Wonderful World."(8) During an interview with the professor of philosophy and theology Gary R. Habermas, who also played a major role in his change of mind (9), and also on the video "Has Science Discovered God?," he openly stated that he believed in intelligent design.

The "Intelligence Pervading the Universe" and the Collapse of Atheism

In the face of all the scientific developments outlined above, the acceptance of intelligent design by Antony Flew, famous for defending atheism for many years, reflects a final scene in the process of collapse being undergone by atheism. Modern science has revealed the existence of an "intelligence pervading the universe," thus leaving atheism out of the equation.

In his book "The Hidden Face of God," Gerald Schroeder, one of the creationist scientists who influenced Flew, writes:

"A single consciousness, a universal wisdom, pervades the universe. The discoveries of science, those that search the quantum nature of subatomic matter, have moved us to the brink of a startling realization: all existence is the expression of this wisdom. In the laboratories we experience it as information that first physically articulated as energy and then condensed into the form of matter. Every particle, every being, from atom to human, appears to represent a level of information, of wisdom." (10)

Scientific research into both the functioning of the cell and the subatomic particles of matter has revealed this fact in an indisputable manner: Life and the universe were brought into being from nothing by the will of an entity possessed of a superior mind and wisdom. There is no doubt that the possessor of that knowledge and mind that pervade the universe at all levels is Almighty Allah. Allah reveals this truth in the Qur'an:

Both East and West belong to Allah, so wherever you turn, the Face of Allah is there. Allah is All-Encompassing, All-Knowing." (Qur'an, 2:115)

[Nationalist]

Originally Posted by royalbengaltiger

As people have certainly been influenced by me, I want to try and correct the enormous damage I may have done." (Anthony Flew)

The newspapers these days are echoing with these regret-filled words by Anthony Flew, in his time a well-known atheist philosopher. The 81-year-old British professor of philosophy Flew chose to become an atheist at the age of 15, and first made a name for himself in the academic field with a paper published in 1950. In the 54 years that followed, he defended atheism as a teacher at the universities of Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele and Reading, at many American and Canadian universities he visited, in debates, books, lecture halls and articles. In recent days, however, Flew has announced that he has abandoned this error and accepts that the universe was created.

The decisive factor in this radical change of view is the clear and definitive evidence revealed by science on the subject of creation. Flew realised, in the face of the information-based complexity of life, that the true origin of life is intelligent design and that the atheism he had espoused for 66 years was a discredited philosophy.

Flew announced the scientific reasons underlying this change in belief in these terms:

"Biologists' investigation of DNA has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce [life], that intelligence must have been involved." (1)

"It has become inordinately difficult even to begin to think about constructing a naturalistic theory of the evolution of that first reproducing organism." (2)

"I have been persuaded that it is simply out of the question that the first living matter evolved out of dead matter and then developed into an extraordinarily complicated creature." (3)

The DNA research which Flew cites as a fundamental reason for his change of opinion has indeed revealed striking facts about creation. The helix shape of the DNA molecule, its possession of the genetic code, the nucleotide strings that refute blind chance, the storage of encyclopaedic quantities of information and many other striking findings have revealed that the structure and functions of this molecule were arranged for life with a special design. Comments by scientists concerned with DNA research bear witness to this fact.

Francis Crick, for instance, one of the scientists who revealed the helix shape of DNA admitted in the face of the findings regarding DNA that the origin of life indicated a miracle:

An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going. (4)

Based on his calculations, Led Adleman of the University of Southern California in Los Angeles has stated that one gram of DNA can store as much information as a trillion compact discs. (5) Gene Myers, a scientist employed on the Human Genome Project, has said the following in the face of the miraculous arrangements he witnessed:


"What really astounds me is the architecture of life… The system is extremely complex. It's like it was designed… There's a huge intelligence there." (6)

The most striking fact about DNA is that the existence of the coded genetic information can definitely not be explained in terms of matter and energy or natural laws. Dr. Werner Gitt, a professor at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology, has said this on the subject:

A code system is always the result of a mental process… It should be emphasized that matter as such is unable to generate any code. All experiences indicate that a thinking being voluntarily exercising his own free will, cognition, and creativity, is required… There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to information, neither is any physical process or material phenomenon known that can do this. (7)

Creationist scientists and philosophers played a major role in Flew's acceptance of intelligent design, backed up by all these findings. In recent times Flew participated in debates with scientists and philosophers who were proponents of creation, and exchanged ideas with them. The final turning point in that process was a discussion organised by the Institute for Metascientific Research in Texas in May, 2003. Flew participated together with author Roy Abraham Varghese, Israeli physicist and molecular biologist Gerald Schroeder, and Roman Catholic philosopher John Haldane. Flew was impressed by the weight of the scientific evidence in favour of creation and by the convincing nature of his opponents' arguments, and abandoned atheism as an idea in the period following that discussion. In a letter he wrote for the August-September, 2003, edition of the British magazine Philosophy Now, he recommended Schroeder's book "The Hidden Face of God: Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth" and Varghese's book "The Wonderful World."(8) During an interview with the professor of philosophy and theology Gary R. Habermas, who also played a major role in his change of mind (9), and also on the video "Has Science Discovered God?," he openly stated that he believed in intelligent design.

The "Intelligence Pervading the Universe" and the Collapse of Atheism

In the face of all the scientific developments outlined above, the acceptance of intelligent design by Antony Flew, famous for defending atheism for many years, reflects a final scene in the process of collapse being undergone by atheism. Modern science has revealed the existence of an "intelligence pervading the universe," thus leaving atheism out of the equation.

In his book "The Hidden Face of God," Gerald Schroeder, one of the creationist scientists who influenced Flew, writes:

"A single consciousness, a universal wisdom, pervades the universe. The discoveries of science, those that search the quantum nature of subatomic matter, have moved us to the brink of a startling realization: all existence is the expression of this wisdom. In the laboratories we experience it as information that first physically articulated as energy and then condensed into the form of matter. Every particle, every being, from atom to human, appears to represent a level of information, of wisdom." (10)

Simple, evolutionism > creationtionism

[DamianD1]

Originally Posted by hellayah

An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.

He asks one of his new Muslim students to stand and.....

Professor: You are a Muslim, aren't you, son?

Student : Yes, sir.

Prof: So you believe in God?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Prof: Is God good?

Student : Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?

Student : Yes.

Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't.

How is this God good then? Hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?

Student :Yes.

Prof: Is Satan good?

Student : No.

Prof: Where does Satan come from?

Student : From...God...

Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. correct?

Student : Yes.

Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?


Student :Yes, sir.

Prof: So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the

world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?

Student : No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?

Student : No , sir.


Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God?

Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student : Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. That do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Prof: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

Prof: Yes.

Student : No sir. There isn't.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.


(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?

Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something.

You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality.

You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it.

Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so.

So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable

protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir.

With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.

Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & God is FAITH.

That is all that keeps things moving & alive.

as "poetic and beautiful" as this piece may be. it solves nothing. its just a nice wallpaper. doesn't explain anything. and you have not changed my athiest position. faith based in proven scientific "faith", is more absolute than unbridled "faith" meant to keep the "sheep" in control by government.

[methodman535]

Originally Posted by hellayah

This article is a ripoff of an original article where the student was a christian. I've seen it before. Someone just changed the words around and put muslim in there.

Anyway as you have already seen this plagierized article doesnt change a thing on RD. The reason that atheists dont believe in god is mainly because they think christians, muslims, hindus, buddhists etc(people like you) are just plain ridiculous when it comes to explaining how the world was created. They hear conflicting stories like the earth being 10,000 years old or 4000 years old and humans being created out of clay and suddenly walking the earth after being dropped from a garden of eden. Or they hear tales of souls being moved from insects and snakes up to humans and then back to animals generation after generation. With no proof of course. They are rejectionists. They reject religion entirely as manmade fairy tales and they see god as an actor in those fairy stories. Who can blame them for rejecting everything and replacing it with just pure science? I cant...look at the alternative.


And you very conveniently avoid the fact that all the religions on earth filled by these fictitious beings called "theists" are in direct conflict with each other and totally contradict each other in very fundemental ways. And yet you call everyone of these people a "theist" as if they are all coming. If you wanna be of such great service to "your atheist friends" then why dont you provide them a logical argument that proves adam and eve were made from clay? How about a logical explanation as to why cats survived on earth when noah didnt take any of them aboard the ark when the great flood came? Of course theres no logical explanation behind the Virgin mary giving birth to jesus...I could go on and on and on. Somehow you just decided to pick on atheist who doesnt believe in your religious sect nor believe in god. But you didnt really mention anything about your own religion and how you think christians are nuts for believing jesus is the son of god or how non ahmadi muslims are gunna burn in hell for not recognizing the second coming of jesus. All christians and all jews btw believe muhammad is an imposter, an antichrist, a fraud. You conveniently skipped over that and just decided to be a "theist" today so you could gang up against atheists. Your post has a dualistic approach to it which looks like it might be coming from an agnostic but I know you are not agnostic. Why do you pretend to be agnostic and openminded when you are not?

I'm amused at seeing an ahmadi make a post like this. All the rest of the muslims think you are a traitor and a kafir for following the dajjal(that mirza guy) as your prophet but today you forgot about the 1 billion "fellow muslim theists" who think you follow the dajjal, and the rest of the world that thinks your religion is fake anyway but you put that aside and decided to pick on atheism. How ironic.

And as far as making that fictional philosophy professor say that humans evolved from monkeys thats BS too. Nobody who believes in evolution says that people evolved from monkeys, they say that there was a common ancestor millions and millions of years ago and all primates evolved from that ancestor through a combination of genetic drift, natural selection, adaptation and other lesser known factors. You seem to think that believing in evolution makes a monky out of the believer. Well, most of these atheists believe they are human and further up the evolutionary ladder than theists are.

[jatti_down_under]

The evolution is a theory but then again God is a theory... If you are dismissing Evolution then You are a big hypocrite if u say that God is the Almighty creator.

Anyways, about this topic, I thought that Conversation was dumb.

[o0mz_rasmalai0o]

Originally Posted by hey_jay37

yes, its kinda obvious its fake, but the fact is that its enlighting you in an indirect way.

and what are u talking about conversion? the convo isnt meant to convert anyone to anything. its just to make u have a belief in GOD; no matter what religion you are. I'm Christian, and it helped strengthen my belief in my God, it didn't convert me to Islam.

im talking about conversion from atheism to faith in god...obviously it isnt directed at converting the faithful from one religion to another. Its what i like to call religious propaganda disguised as intelligent interaction.

Its great that it strengthened ur beliefs, it isnt great that while doing so it was trying to weaken those of atheists.

[methodman535]

Weaken the faith of atheists. I thoght that was kinda cute when said in that context.

[o0mz_rasmalai0o]

...

[Cyanor]

Replying to the very first post in this thread.

I rebuke it STRONGLY. Everyone who was and is involved in the existence of this story knows very little of either Science or Spirituality.


My biggest objection to this post is that it strives to stand Science against Faith and this is far from truth. True science has never challenged the existence of God. Science don't say that there is a God but neither does it say otherwise. Science is just an attempt towards a more rational explainations to observations as compared to "because God desired it thus." It chalange superstition and not God itself. In the earlier days, particularly in the catholic society, due to some inexplicable fear this rational thinking was considered evil. And Science earned a bad name. Atheist used science as an excuse and science became even more evil. Though, this has never been the case in the Indian scenario. Even our scriptures categorically lay down:

Yuktiyuktam vacho grahyam baladapi shukadapi !
Yuktihinam vachastyajyam vrudhadapi shukadapi !!

ie. Whatever is consistent with right reasoning should be accepted, even though if comes from the mouth of a boy or even from a parrot; and whatever is inconsistent therewith ought to be rejected, although emanating from an old man or even from the great sage Shree Shuka himself.

Further there are certain very conspicuous flaws in the dialogues that transpired between the student and the professor. I am afraid I lack the perseverance to elaborate upon each one of it but I will surely highlight a few.

The professor shows the contrast between so supposed good things and bad things and endavours to challenge the holiness of the supreme holy. In a shloka (which I unfortunately cannot recall) in his book "Neeti Shastra" Chankya sarcastically questions, "Why was the creator (Brhama) not endowed with discernment?". To think that the professor's view point is something ingenious is a mistake and to think that there is no answer to it is an even bigger mistake.

The way the professor tried to belittle spiritual philosophy the students counter arguments belittled science. Examples of cold and darkness is irrelevent. Science has never claimed them to be physically present. But they can be perceived and they can be measured, relatively, but ofcourse... science don't believe in absolute. The students almost stupid attack at science is near unbearable to a true student of science like me. No one has witnessed humans evolving from apes seeing is not everything. Smoke can be and is the evidence of fire you don't have to see the flames.

I can continue... but I'd rather not.

Please if you decide to tell the story in question to anyone also tell him what I have to say.




I am not a believer in God... but that don't make me an atheist.

[EtTuBrute]

Most people here don't even know the scientific meaning of the word 'theory' (hint: its not just some radom unsubstanitated hypothesis)

Anyways the real debate around evolution isn't wether it occured but how it occurs.
Read a few of the entries on evolution and gene expression on this site if you want to know.
http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/
(note: the site is run by a muslim guy named Razib)

[Arjuna]

Originally Posted by the gothman

You people should not come to conclusions. that conversation is flawed to begin with.

^ wut he said , the professor sucks in arguing i could have easily come with many other questions to counter the kid

[GeminiPinay]

um............................

[sharthap]

Originally Posted by methodman535

This article is a ripoff of an original article where the student was a christian. I've seen it before. Someone just changed the words around and put muslim in there.

Anyway as you have already seen this plagierized article doesnt change a thing on RD. The reason that atheists dont believe in god is mainly because they think christians, muslims, hindus, buddhists etc(people like you) are just plain ridiculous when it comes to explaining how the world was created. They hear conflicting stories like the earth being 10,000 years old or 4000 years old and humans being created out of clay and suddenly walking the earth after being dropped from a garden of eden. Or they hear tales of souls being moved from insects and snakes up to humans and then back to animals generation after generation. With no proof of course. They are rejectionists. They reject religion entirely as manmade fairy tales and they see god as an actor in those fairy stories. Who can blame them for rejecting everything and replacing it with just pure science? I cant...look at the alternative.


And you very conveniently avoid the fact that all the religions on earth filled by these fictitious beings called "theists" are in direct conflict with each other and totally contradict each other in very fundemental ways. And yet you call everyone of these people a "theist" as if they are all coming. If you wanna be of such great service to "your atheist friends" then why dont you provide them a logical argument that proves adam and eve were made from clay? How about a logical explanation as to why cats survived on earth when noah didnt take any of them aboard the ark when the great flood came? Of course theres no logical explanation behind the Virgin mary giving birth to jesus...I could go on and on and on. Somehow you just decided to pick on atheist who doesnt believe in your religious sect nor believe in god. But you didnt really mention anything about your own religion and how you think christians are nuts for believing jesus is the son of god or how non ahmadi muslims are gunna burn in hell for not recognizing the second coming of jesus. All christians and all jews btw believe muhammad is an imposter, an antichrist, a fraud. You conveniently skipped over that and just decided to be a "theist" today so you could gang up against atheists. Your post has a dualistic approach to it which looks like it might be coming from an agnostic but I know you are not agnostic. Why do you pretend to be agnostic and openminded when you are not?

I'm amused at seeing an ahmadi make a post like this. All the rest of the muslims think you are a traitor and a kafir for following the dajjal(that mirza guy) as your prophet but today you forgot about the 1 billion "fellow muslim theists" who think you follow the dajjal, and the rest of the world that thinks your religion is fake anyway but you put that aside and decided to pick on atheism. How ironic.

And as far as making that fictional philosophy professor say that humans evolved from monkeys thats BS too. Nobody who believes in evolution says that people evolved from monkeys, they say that there was a common ancestor millions and millions of years ago and all primates evolved from that ancestor through a combination of genetic drift, natural selection, adaptation and other lesser known factors. You seem to think that believing in evolution makes a monky out of the believer. Well, most of these atheists believe they are human and further up the evolutionary ladder than theists are.

ok, method totally and officially owned hellayah's ass.

[oneg]

I'm atheist, and so is god. since god doesn't believe in a higher being, why should i?

[hellayah]

Originally Posted by oneg

I'm atheist, and so is god. since god doesn't believe in a higher being, why should i?

Cuz God created u and no one created him.

[grandprix606]

that whole thing was the best use of my time this ENTIRE day.. thanks for sharing =)

[oneg]

Originally Posted by hellayah

Cuz God created u and no one created him.

no he didn't. he ain't my daddy. and even if he was he must've been one lowsy father, coz i aint ever seen him.

[methodman535]

Originally Posted by oneg

no he didn't. he ain't my daddy. and even if he was he must've been one lowsy father, coz i aint ever seen him.

[hellayah]

Originally Posted by oneg

no he didn't. he ain't my daddy. and even if he was he must've been one lowsy father, coz i aint ever seen him.

let me give u some advice

We may not yet completely grasp the possibilities of our continuing evolution or that of a completely new chain of evolution beginning with a fresh start. Our understanding can only reach the periphery of present knowledge and for us it remains a part of the unseen. However, the unknown is constantly being transformed into that which is known or understood. This is the natural process of education. God is the Lord of all that is seen and all that is unseen. Gradually He broadens our horizons so that our vision is constantly enlarged with the coming into view of that which previously lay beyond the curtain of darkness.