Bushs speech last nite

[DesiStud1022]

Was dumb. He talked so long I missed "Scrubs" - It took him an hour to say "We are still at war in Iraq and are rebuilding it". What a waste of time.

[Aurovon]

Bush....no comment.

[ZeeDaDDy]

I hate... it it was so gay... especailly when he started to talk about the freedom in the Middle East !!!!

[ShivaChrist]

You mean the freedom we need to bring to the middle east? Yeah, I agree.

[Baby_Butter]

i fucken hate bush...cant wait to get my hands on him...so that i can kill him...choke him to death...he has no idea how many innocent ppl are dying cuz of him

[ShivaChrist]

Saying things like that could get you in serious trouble... doesn't matter if its Bush. Even Clinton, etc. You threaten a president, then you could be in serious trouble... just be careful. Who knows what they can do with the Internet these days.

As for innocents, the difference between US and the taliban is we don't actively go after civilians, but I guess you won't believe that since you already are convinced we're the bad guys... yeah, we love running planes into buildings and walking into disco's with bombs strapped on us to kill innocent teenagers.

Yup, we're so evil.

[gt_sweetness]

didnt he say something bout..
he belives that god made america to bring piece or something?i duno something bout god...

i dun care wat they can do..bush is an ass hole...id fucking kill him if i had to...

[Ujjwala]

Saying things like that could get you in serious trouble... doesn't matter if its Bush. Even Clinton, etc. You threaten a president, then you could be in serious trouble... just be careful. Who knows what they can do with the Internet these days.

As for innocents, the difference between US and the taliban is we don't actively go after civilians, but I guess you won't believe that since you already are convinced we're the bad guys... yeah, we love running planes into buildings and walking into disco's with bombs strapped on us to kill innocent teenagers.

Yup, we're so evil.
then u should go to southasians.com forum. if ur a newbie u would be shocked at the massive hatred the UK peeps have for Bush or anything remotely american. i had made the mistake of mouthing off about how the USA is a beacon of light for freedom fighters & i got rightfully flamed left & right. be it pakistanis, indians, bangladeshis, nepalis, ect... they all HATE Bush & the USA.

[ShivaChrist]

Seriously (and not just saying it because of youth or anything), but what has he done to your family that makes you want to kill him? Has he murdered your dad in cold blood like I'm sure Saddam has done to countless fathers? Raped your mother like one of Saddam's sons raped countless women in a year? Thrown the bodies of your brothers and sisters in mass graves, and covered them up so no one would find them, like Saddam Hussein did?

What, exactly, has President Bush done that makes you want to kill him, rather then thank him for saving an entire country from a tyrant?

And if you want to call Bush a tyrant... how exactly is he a tyrant? He gets voted into office. He serves a four year term. He might/might not win. If he wins, he gets another four year term then he can't serve as President again, and a new President is chosen. How is this tyranny?

I didn't like President Clinton, he has a LOT to answer for which he will never answer for because the Democrats like to sweep things under the carpet - but I would never want to kill him.

[ShivaChrist]

Saying things like that could get you in serious trouble... doesn't matter if its Bush. Even Clinton, etc. You threaten a president, then you could be in serious trouble... just be careful. Who knows what they can do with the Internet these days.

As for innocents, the difference between US and the taliban is we don't actively go after civilians, but I guess you won't believe that since you already are convinced we're the bad guys... yeah, we love running planes into buildings and walking into disco's with bombs strapped on us to kill innocent teenagers.

Yup, we're so evil.
then u should go to southasians.com forum. if ur a newbie u would be shocked at the massive hatred the UK peeps have for Bush or anything remotely american. i had made the mistake of mouthing off about how the USA is a beacon of light for freedom fighters & i got rightfully flamed left & right. be it pakistanis, indians, bangladeshis, nepalis, ect... they all HATE Bush & the USA.

Get used to it, Europe has a cork up its ass when it comes to the US. My work takes me to Europe sometimes and I was there last year - Vienna, Austria. They ALL have this massive cork up their collective asses now that they have this "European Community"

[gt_sweetness]

Seriously (and not just saying it because of youth or anything), but what has he done to your family that makes you want to kill him? Has he murdered your dad in cold blood like I'm sure Saddam has done to countless fathers? Raped your mother like one of Saddam's sons raped countless women in a year? Thrown the bodies of your brothers and sisters in mass graves, and covered them up so no one would find them, like Saddam Hussein did?

What, exactly, has President Bush done that makes you want to kill him, rather then thank him for saving an entire country from a tyrant?

And if you want to call Bush a tyrant... how exactly is he a tyrant? He gets voted into office. He serves a four year term. He might/might not win. If he wins, he gets another four year term then he can't serve as President again, and a new President is chosen. How is this tyranny?

I didn't like President Clinton, he has a LOT to answer for which he will never answer for because the Democrats like to sweep things under the carpet - but I would never want to kill him.

no one said saddam was good ....

[Anacian]

Bush said the terrorists "hate freedom". Do you believe that too? If so, I have a beach house on the moon I'd like to sell you.

[legally_qute]

lol

[Ujjwala]

Seriously (and not just saying it because of youth or anything), but what has he done to your family that makes you want to kill him? Has he murdered your dad in cold blood like I'm sure Saddam has done to countless fathers? Raped your mother like one of Saddam's sons raped countless women in a year? Thrown the bodies of your brothers and sisters in mass graves, and covered them up so no one would find them, like Saddam Hussein did?

What, exactly, has President Bush done that makes you want to kill him, rather then thank him for saving an entire country from a tyrant?

And if you want to call Bush a tyrant... how exactly is he a tyrant? He gets voted into office. He serves a four year term. He might/might not win. If he wins, he gets another four year term then he can't serve as President again, and a new President is chosen. How is this tyranny?

I didn't like President Clinton, he has a LOT to answer for which he will never answer for because the Democrats like to sweep things under the carpet - but I would never want to kill him.
it's not so much prez bush as it is the american idealogy. like it or not, there are some 3rd world countries that wanna be left alone. bush will be forever famous for starting WWIII.

and if telling people how to act & what to do in their country wasn't bad enough, it's also the whole ISRAEL/PALESTINE thing & how the US is always kissing israel's ass. people are sick of it & people can see right through it. bush is a big liar & he is represting our great nation. i'm terribly disappointed at him & his performance.

[ShivaChrist]

Seriously (and not just saying it because of youth or anything), but what has he done to your family that makes you want to kill him? Has he murdered your dad in cold blood like I'm sure Saddam has done to countless fathers? Raped your mother like one of Saddam's sons raped countless women in a year? Thrown the bodies of your brothers and sisters in mass graves, and covered them up so no one would find them, like Saddam Hussein did?

What, exactly, has President Bush done that makes you want to kill him, rather then thank him for saving an entire country from a tyrant?

And if you want to call Bush a tyrant... how exactly is he a tyrant? He gets voted into office. He serves a four year term. He might/might not win. If he wins, he gets another four year term then he can't serve as President again, and a new President is chosen. How is this tyranny?

I didn't like President Clinton, he has a LOT to answer for which he will never answer for because the Democrats like to sweep things under the carpet - but I would never want to kill him.
it's not so much prez bush as it is the american idealogy. like it or not, there are some 3rd world countries that wanna be left alone. bush will be forever famous for starting WWIII.

and if telling people how to act & what to do in their country wasn't bad enough, it's also the whole ISRAEL/PALESTINE thing & how the US is always kissing israel's ass. people are sick of it & people can see right through it. bush is a big liar & he is represting our great nation. i'm terribly disappointed at him & his performance.

Damn straight! Lets let those Palastinians continue to kill children and teenagers with their living bombs!

[gt_sweetness]

Seriously (and not just saying it because of youth or anything), but what has he done to your family that makes you want to kill him? Has he murdered your dad in cold blood like I'm sure Saddam has done to countless fathers? Raped your mother like one of Saddam's sons raped countless women in a year? Thrown the bodies of your brothers and sisters in mass graves, and covered them up so no one would find them, like Saddam Hussein did?

What, exactly, has President Bush done that makes you want to kill him, rather then thank him for saving an entire country from a tyrant?

And if you want to call Bush a tyrant... how exactly is he a tyrant? He gets voted into office. He serves a four year term. He might/might not win. If he wins, he gets another four year term then he can't serve as President again, and a new President is chosen. How is this tyranny?

I didn't like President Clinton, he has a LOT to answer for which he will never answer for because the Democrats like to sweep things under the carpet - but I would never want to kill him.
it's not so much prez bush as it is the american idealogy. like it or not, there are some 3rd world countries that wanna be left alone. bush will be forever famous for starting WWIII.

and if telling people how to act & what to do in their country wasn't bad enough, it's also the whole ISRAEL/PALESTINE thing & how the US is always kissing israel's ass. people are sick of it & people can see right through it. bush is a big liar & he is represting our great nation. i'm terribly disappointed at him & his performance.

Damn straight! Lets let those Palastinians continue to kill children and teenagers with their living bombs!

wtf are tehy suppose to do!? sit there and let the isrealis take over dem and rule their lives?!?!?!!thier doin it bc they're defending wat tehy beleive is right and wat belongs tO THEM...shit they got nothing...its thier rocks against war tanks

that shit is fucked up

[Ujjwala]

Seriously (and not just saying it because of youth or anything), but what has he done to your family that makes you want to kill him? Has he murdered your dad in cold blood like I'm sure Saddam has done to countless fathers? Raped your mother like one of Saddam's sons raped countless women in a year? Thrown the bodies of your brothers and sisters in mass graves, and covered them up so no one would find them, like Saddam Hussein did?

What, exactly, has President Bush done that makes you want to kill him, rather then thank him for saving an entire country from a tyrant?

And if you want to call Bush a tyrant... how exactly is he a tyrant? He gets voted into office. He serves a four year term. He might/might not win. If he wins, he gets another four year term then he can't serve as President again, and a new President is chosen. How is this tyranny?

I didn't like President Clinton, he has a LOT to answer for which he will never answer for because the Democrats like to sweep things under the carpet - but I would never want to kill him.
it's not so much prez bush as it is the american idealogy. like it or not, there are some 3rd world countries that wanna be left alone. bush will be forever famous for starting WWIII.

and if telling people how to act & what to do in their country wasn't bad enough, it's also the whole ISRAEL/PALESTINE thing & how the US is always kissing israel's ass. people are sick of it & people can see right through it. bush is a big liar & he is represting our great nation. i'm terribly disappointed at him & his performance.

Damn straight! Lets let those Palastinians continue to kill children and teenagers with their living bombs!
are u aware that 'Israel' was a nation invented by the UN in 1952 as a makeshift 'homeland' for european jews?

so the UN w/ america's military help, sets up shop smack in the middle of an ARAB populated region. through the years they have ousted & even murdered small pockets of palestinian muslims & christians so that there would be more land for the jews. do u think that's right? and what military power do the palestinians have except for suicide bombers?

long term opression always yields some violent results. that fact remains that palestinre has existed there for thousands of years & no country, no matter how powerful or big has any right to tell them to just shut up & put up with the jews.

[shilpa.]

Bushh = BUSHy oopsie i dunnoo i think he's gonnoo regret ever sendin trroops 2 iraq after he gets out of office

[ShivaChrist]

Sweet.

While we're at it, lets tell Azerbaijan that they were made by the Soviet Union at the beginning of the century and that they should give their land back to the Armenians.

Yeah, that works. I know, let's use all our powers to undo all this stuff.

/sarcasm off

btw, no offense, but if you compare the occasional civilian death via Israeli fire (occasionally can also = a group), and consider it the same as actually walking into a nightclub, strapped with explosives, and blowing yourself up... not destroying any military targets, but killing only 30-40 teenagers, boys and girls your age... there's something wrong.

I'm not going to go further into this. No wonder nothing gets done in the world, with people actually saying considering attacking non-military targets and killing teenagers acceptable in a fight against oppression. That's the exact same tactic running planes into buildings is - killing strictly civilians.

Does that mean you condone what happened on 9-11 to the World Trade Center? I doubt you do (this is to anyone who thinks this way) but that's the same thing as bombing a disco with a bomb strapped on by a suicide bomber. Yet it is easy to speak your mind on an Internet Forum without realizing the shear horror of what happens in real life.

Ok, like I said, I'm done with this thread.

[ii_khushi86_ii]

Was dumb. He talked so long I missed "Scrubs" - It took him an hour to say "We are still at war in Iraq and are rebuilding it". What a waste of time.

aaahahaha.. i love that show.

[angrynacho]

Saying things like that could get you in serious trouble... doesn't matter if its Bush. Even Clinton, etc. You threaten a president, then you could be in serious trouble... just be careful. Who knows what they can do with the Internet these days.

No, that motherfucker deserves to die. Yeah, with the Patriot act and all, I don't doubt that they could be reading this shit.

As for innocents, the difference between US and the taliban is we don't actively go after civilians, but I guess you won't believe that since you already are convinced we're the bad guys... yeah, we love running planes into buildings and walking into disco's with bombs strapped on us to kill innocent teenagers.

Man, shut the fuck up. Comparing us to the Taliban does NOT make us justified. The war by international law is illegal.

The carpet-bombing of Vietnam wasn't meant to harm civilians--but what the FUCK did it do? Harmed civilians. The laying of land mines wasn't meant to hurt civilians. What did it do and is still doing? Harming civilians.

Check this out, the terrorists weren't aiming at you and me and other lower/middle class WORKERS. There was a reason why they aimed at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and the White House--not a local flea market.

I didn't like President Clinton, he has a LOT to answer for which he will never answer for because the Democrats like to sweep things under the carpet - but I would never want to kill him.

I love how people think of politics in partisanship these days. Bush is a motherfucker, but uhh AT LEAST he isn't as bad of a motherfucker as Clinton. Clinton made his mistakes, yes. I think Bush is the devil though.

Get used to it, Europe has a cork up its ass when it comes to the US. My work takes me to Europe sometimes and I was there last year - Vienna, Austria. They ALL have this massive cork up their collective asses now that they have this "European Community"

This kind of blindness is what allowed us to go into Iraq alone. You don't like it, well get used to it. Uhhh "let's roll" Fuck that. Maybe the US is the fuck up and they're right?

Your attitude and logic is the kind of shit that is behind the nuclear weapons proliferation in South Asia. Look at Serious Discussion and there are people of the same culture arguing against each other trying to prove the other is less civilized. That isn't fucking right.

[DesiStud1022]

clinton sucks.

[ShivaChrist]

Saying things like that could get you in serious trouble... doesn't matter if its Bush. Even Clinton, etc. You threaten a president, then you could be in serious trouble... just be careful. Who knows what they can do with the Internet these days.

No, that motherfucker deserves to die. Yeah, with the Patriot act and all, I don't doubt that they could be reading this shit.

As for innocents, the difference between US and the taliban is we don't actively go after civilians, but I guess you won't believe that since you already are convinced we're the bad guys... yeah, we love running planes into buildings and walking into disco's with bombs strapped on us to kill innocent teenagers.

Man, shut the fuck up. Comparing us to the Taliban does NOT make us justified. The war by international law is illegal.

The carpet-bombing of Vietnam wasn't meant to harm civilians--but what the FUCK did it do? Harmed civilians. The laying of land mines wasn't meant to hurt civilians. What did it do and is still doing? Harming civilians.

Check this out, the terrorists weren't aiming at you and me and other lower/middle class WORKERS. There was a reason why they aimed at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and the White House--not a local flea market.

I didn't like President Clinton, he has a LOT to answer for which he will never answer for because the Democrats like to sweep things under the carpet - but I would never want to kill him.

I love how people think of politics in partisanship these days. Bush is a motherfucker, but uhh AT LEAST he isn't as bad of a motherfucker as Clinton. Clinton made his mistakes, yes. I think Bush is the devil though.

Get used to it, Europe has a cork up its ass when it comes to the US. My work takes me to Europe sometimes and I was there last year - Vienna, Austria. They ALL have this massive cork up their collective asses now that they have this "European Community"

This kind of blindness is what allowed us to go into Iraq alone. You don't like it, well get used to it. Uhhh "let's roll" Fuck that. Maybe the US is the fuck up and they're right?

Your attitude and logic is the kind of shit that is behind the nuclear weapons proliferation in South Asia. Look at Serious Discussion and there are people of the same culture arguing against each other trying to prove the other is less civilized. That isn't fucking right.

...

lol

And your attitude and logic of "fuck that" and that an elected offical of the land of the free needs to die is much, much worse. Because its sinister.

What I'm afraid of is a world run by people like you. In that world, the Soviet Union wouldn't have collapsed and the Iron Curtain would already be around the US. So I guess we wouldn't have to worry about terrorist then. Good work.

[PaniPuri]

You mean the freedom we need to bring to the middle east? Yeah, I agree.

what do u mean by freedom? and why do u feel the need to bring this to the middle east, r u speaking on their behalf?
just curious.

[angrynacho]

What I'm afraid of is a world run by people like you. In that world, the Soviet Union wouldn't have collapsed and the Iron Curtain would already be around the US. So I guess we wouldn't have to worry about terrorist then. Good work.

Hahahahaha.

[vaatyaar]

do ya'll know that Bush gave his 100% support behind Ariel today? That palestinians are screwed royally now? That Bush supports throwing out all palestinians from israel, regardless of how long they've lived there; that he supports israel's settlements, etc etc?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=1312&e=1&u=/ap/20040414/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush_sharon_24

oh and my fave part of the speech yesterday:

QUESTION: Mr. President, why are you and the vice president insisting on appearing together before the 9-11 commission? And, Mr. President, who will we be handing the Iraqi government over to on June 30th?

BUSH: We'll find that out soon. That's what Mr. Brahimi is doing. He's figuring out the nature of the entity we'll be handing sovereignty over.

And, secondly, because the 9-11 commission wants to ask us questions, that's why we're meeting. And I look forward to meeting with them and answering their questions.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) I was asking why you're appearing together, rather than separately, which was their request.

BUSH: Because it's a good chance for both of us to answer questions that the 9-11 commission is looking forward to asking us. And I'm looking forward to answering them.

Let's see. Hold on for a minute. Let's see. Oh, Jim.

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. President.

BUSH: I've got some must-calls. I'm sorry.

[Sphinx7]

I think Bush is the devil though.

hhaha tru indeed.

thats the best thing ive heard today.
Bush is the indeed the devil, fuck that puppet bitch bush.
a Nazi connected president, and hollow heads are wondering y we at war...after ther re-election get time 4 a rerun, volume 2 of this plotted show.

motherfuckers are all siked up about this election tricknology..
im sick of all these mtv register to vote commericals...reminding fools that u got to vote, wtf?

[Sphinx7]

do ya'll know that Bush gave his 100% support behind Ariel today? That palestinians are screwed royally now? That Bush supports throwing out all palestinians from israel, regardless of how long they've lived there; that he supports israel's settlements, etc etc?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=1312&e=1&u=/ap/20040414/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush_sharon_24

oh and my fave part of the speech yesterday:


thanks 4 that info, but aint nothin new under the sun

[angrynacho]

vaat: Yeah, I read about that. A royal fuck up. I don't know, it seems like he is trying to stir up anti-US sentiment by this shit just so he can exploit it later.

Do you have a link to the speech transcript? I'm too lazy to google =\

[vaatyaar]

washingtonpost.com

[Sphinx7]

Saying things like that could get you in serious trouble... doesn't matter if its Bush. Even Clinton, etc. You threaten a president, then you could be in serious trouble... just be careful. Who knows what they can do with the Internet these days.

As for innocents, the difference between US and the taliban is we don't actively go after civilians, but I guess you won't believe that since you already are convinced we're the bad guys... yeah, we love running planes into buildings and walking into disco's with bombs strapped on us to kill innocent teenagers.

Yup, we're so evil.

damn :scratch:

we? have you not noticed there Still isnt solid proof that benny L was behind the nine-elven hoax. if you anylze the events carfully its clearly understandable that the amerikkkan staged that mufucker. but yet the average amerikkkan does not have that mindset to cee things 4 what they are. they only cee what they appear to be.

the key word is here, there needs to be a driven force, and exploited reason to create tensions, or to stir the pot. this is y wars are created. you reading the isreali news paper and reading about people with bombs strapped doesnt justify the issue as a whole. have u been over-cee's..in these countries? have no idea the mindset of the arab/asian/islamic people. the saying running planes into the building is ridiculous, and if anyone still beLIEves that story, that person has been spoon fed.

[ShivaChrist]

Its pointless to argue. It's like arguing the moon landing didn't happen.

This is the real world. In the real world there are people who only listen to violence, as much as you and I (yes, I know some of you who dislike me won't believe me) hate violence.

In a perfect world, we'd all play video games, make love, and come together as one human nation to explore our world and the stars.

But this is far from a perfect world.

To compare President Bush, an elected official, to Hitler? To compare the leader of the free world to a man who led jews to death camps?

I'm not even going to argue against such un-intelligent posts.

[vaatyaar]

I'm not even going to argue against such un-intelligent posts.

and yet you want to seek advice on a 2 month fast from "intelligent teens"

LOL :roll:

[ShivaChrist]

?

You realize that by bringing in another post where I already cut you down (successfully I might add) shows your lack of common sense?

This has nothing to do with fasting, but thanks for not making sense again.

[angrynacho]

To compare President Bush, an elected official, to Hitler? To compare the leader of the free world to a man who led jews to death camps?

Hahahaha. Are you saying Hitler wasn't an elected official?--because he effectively was.

I'm a historian in training and as such, I understand what most are saying when they compare Bush to Hitler. It isn't a 1:1 comparison. If everything required a 1:1 comparison, history would be useless. The thing that is important is to realize reoccuring trends in history. The Patriot Act is most definitely something to question as it really isn't too different than some acts that Hitler enacted during his first few years in office. Hitler just didn't jump into office and start the Holocaust overnight, you know. I'm not trying to say that there will be a Holocaust here either, but I do have every right to question the bullshit that is being spewed right now.

[vaatyaar]

?

You realize that by bringing in another post where I already cut you down (successfully I might add) shows your lack of common sense?

This has nothing to do with fasting, but thanks for not making sense again.

you make enough of a fool of yourself. Continue on with your holy 2 month fast and jacknig off to every girl's pic here ("save as" LOL).. and being spoon fed propaganda.

While you're at it, let your hair grow long so you can continue making posts about how you long for the desi girl's touch. LOL>

[angrynacho]

?

You realize that by bringing in another post where I already cut you down (successfully I might add) shows your lack of common sense?

This has nothing to do with fasting, but thanks for not making sense again.

you make enough of a fool of yourself. Continue on with your holy 2 month fast and jacknig off to every girl's pic here ("save as" LOL).. and being spoon fed propaganda.

While you're at it, let your hair grow long so you can continue making posts about how you long for the desi girl's touch. LOL>

Hahahahahaa. Man, you fucking rock.

[ShivaChrist]

?

You realize that by bringing in another post where I already cut you down (successfully I might add) shows your lack of common sense?

This has nothing to do with fasting, but thanks for not making sense again.

you make enough of a fool of yourself. Continue on with your holy 2 month fast and jacknig off to every girl's pic here ("save as" LOL).. and being spoon fed propaganda.

While you're at it, let your hair grow long so you can continue making posts about how you long for the desi girl's touch. LOL>

You ask any of the normal people (ie not jerkoffs like you) and they will tell you to stfu, man. You're so stupid its not even funny. You can just tell that your a biggoted person just by the way you type. In less time then it would take for me to take a breath you said 3 dumb things.

That might be a world record.

Edit on that: Angry Nacho cements my point on dumbasses. Wow, today is a record for me... I haven't had this many bigots on my case in about 3 weeks!

[VegasThug]

FUCK BUSH

[plummet]

FUCK BUSH

[VegasThug]

FUCK BUSH

=D>

[plummet]

:thumleft:

[Ragga_NZ]

Bush is an asshole....i repeat Bush is an asshole....

[NumbaOneStunna]

This is the real world. In the real world there are people who only listen to violence, as much as you and I (yes, I know some of you who dislike me won't believe me) hate violence.

.
Not true. Nobody likes to blow themselves up along with a dozen others unless you are driven to the point of acute desperation which is in fact the case in palestine.

I would really like to see how you would behave when you live like a second class citizen in a refugee camp in your own land, with no respect, used and abused daily, no source of steady employment, no hope, no voice and no futurre.

[ShivaChrist]

This is the real world. In the real world there are people who only listen to violence, as much as you and I (yes, I know some of you who dislike me won't believe me) hate violence.

.
Not true. Nobody likes to blow themselves up along with a dozen others unless you are driven to the point of acute desperation which is in fact the case in palestine.

I would really like to see how you would behave when you live like a second class citizen in a refugee camp in your own land, with no respect, used and abused daily, no source of steady employment, no hope, no voice and no futurre.

You guys are so naive.

They take your kids, teach them to hate as children, and keep teaching them till they are adults. We are LUCKY we live here where we can't be indoctrinated like that.

In addition to that, they are told their family will be taken care of (fed/given lots of money, etc) and that they are going to Heaven for their acts, and then these brainwashed people go ahead, strap the bombs on and go kill innocents.

Go read about it before you start talking about poor people who have nothing else left but blowing up innocent teenagers at dance clubs.

[pkannan]

Sooo many people keep on sayin that America doesnt actively go after civilian targets. Well with all of the civlians that have been killed by "terrorists", i would like to know when that number will come close to equaling the number of INNOCENT CIVILIANS that were killed at hiroshima and nagasaki.

And BTW plz dont give me bull like(Bill O'Reilly) "that was a long time ago so it doesnt matter now"

Did the U.S. ever actively "pay" for that? Were they deemed terrorists?

If someone can tell me when the U.S. govt took responsibility for and apologized and made reparations for that tremendous act of terrorism, then i will be better able to empathize with the U.S. point of view.

Yes,The World Trade Center was a tremendous loss of life. But from what i remember, the majority of the lives lost were those of other nationalities. Yes,that was a sad and tragic event. But that doesnt mean that war isnt war. I for one believe that war in itself is an absolute exercise in futility. NO ONE ever wins. There is never black and white. You cant say we the U.S. are good and the "terrorists" are evil, you cant say the U.S. is evil and the "terrorists" are good. there are too many other variable to make such statements.

that is my piece
peace

[Amberosia]

i like double-ya.







he's pretty.























pretty stupid.

[illomatic]

BUSH- Lets get rid of the people who lived there their whole lives.

Someone b4 bush - pres hoover or something?... lets protect the people and where they live.


WHAT THE FUCK MAKE UP UR FUCKING MIND

[ShivaChrist]

Sooo many people keep on sayin that America doesnt actively go after civilian targets. Well with all of the civlians that have been killed by "terrorists", i would like to know when that number will come close to equaling the number of INNOCENT CIVILIANS that were killed at hiroshima and nagasaki.

We were in the middle of a world war. Totally different situation... we had two options.

Option a) Take the final offensive with thousands upon thousands of marines attacking the Japanese beachheads (invading all of Japan), and losing so many lives in a bloody conflict that the Japanese were going to lose whether their honor wished to admit to this fact or not or

Option b) Drop a nuclear bomb, a weapon which had never been used in combat before, kill everyone in a isolated area, and save American lives from a sickening offensive attack that would end up with severe casualties.

They chose option 2.

Now, no Atom Bomb is a good atom bomb, but the bomb was still in its infancy. The bomb used in WWII was a lot weaker then the bombs we have now, and it still destroyed a city. Scary.

But at the time, atomic weapons had never been used in a armed conflict. But at the same time, we had never been in a World War of that extremety before, either.

Now, if you actually do your homework you will see that out of two horrible options, America chose the one with the least casualties.

Sucks, doesn't it? But that's what it came down to.

[NumbaOneStunna]

This is the real world. In the real world there are people who only listen to violence, as much as you and I (yes, I know some of you who dislike me won't believe me) hate violence.

.
Not true. Nobody likes to blow themselves up along with a dozen others unless you are driven to the point of acute desperation which is in fact the case in palestine.

I would really like to see how you would behave when you live like a second class citizen in a refugee camp in your own land, with no respect, used and abused daily, no source of steady employment, no hope, no voice and no futurre.

You guys are so naive.

They take your kids, teach them to hate as children, and keep teaching them till they are adults. We are LUCKY we live here where we can't be indoctrinated like that.

In addition to that, they are told their family will be taken care of (fed/given lots of money, etc) and that they are going to Heaven for their acts, and then these brainwashed people go ahead, strap the bombs on and go kill innocents.

Go read about it before you start talking about poor people who have nothing else left but blowing up innocent teenagers at dance clubs.

ShivaChrist i have been to the middle east. They dont have to teach their children to hate anyone. Its pretty obvious to everyone as to what is going on. When your past two generations have been living in a lil dirty corner of a refugee camp and you yourself have no way out no matter how much you want to then its pretty easy to feel the desperation. Nobody has to teach it to you.

And yeah they are told their family will be taken care of. Its just like the israeli or US armymen being told their family will be taken care of if they die in battle. Whats so different about this?

They blow themselves up because thats the only option they have. Give them F-16s and A1 Abrams tanks and they would gladly use those instead of suicide belts.

And what you dont realise ShivaChrist is that suicide bombings only started in the early 1990s while israel has been occupying the territories and abusing palestinians since 1947. So it took the palestinians 40 years of oppression to resort to suicide bombings after everything else including peace talks failed.

So dont make assinine assumptions like "some people only understand violence". Thats an incredibly stupid comment to make.

[ShivaChrist]

They blow themselves up because thats the only option they have. Give them F-16s and A1 Abrams tanks and they would gladly use those instead of suicide belts.

And what you dont realise ShivaChrist is that suicide bombings only started in the early 1990s while israel has been occupying the territories and abusing palestinians since 1947. So it took the palestinians 40 years of oppression to resort to suicide bombings after everything else including peace talks failed.

So dont make assinine assumptions like "some people only understand violence". Thats an incredibly stupid comment to make.

Fine, then have them go take their suicide bombing (lol I find it hilarious that you approve of those tactics) and go bomb military targets.

Let me tell you what a incredibly stupid comment is... it is you trying to justify what I have said, oh, 3-4 times in this thread. They don't go bomb Israeli military targets. They go and blow up clubs filled with Israeli teenagers.

Teenagers. Your age.

So before you accuse me of stupid comments and why its justified for them to become living bombs, read up about their targets. Read up about the dead teenagers whos bodies get blown up into bloody little chunks. Sounds really honorable, doesn't it.

If not clubs, take your cafe... innocents in cafes, sitting around and *boom* dying.

Really makes them sound like freedom fighters, doesn't it.

It never comes down to neutrality. It's always about taking sides. If you were Jewish, you'd probably sit around trying to justify why the Israelies should do what they do.

I'm not supporting either side, but I do know what's right and what's wrong - and killing teenagers in a campaign of terror is wrong.

Did you know that when Israel finally got the balls to kill the "father of the suicide bombers" a few civilians were killed and people started bitching the Israelies for that? Was it wrong for a single civilian to die? Yes, because life is precious. But the handful to die in that attack has a lot of people in these forums yelling about how terrible the Israelies are, yet not a peep when the Palastinians go out and kill 40 teenagers in a single bombing.

[NumbaOneStunna]

You wanna talk about civilians dying?
Civilians casulaties according to the UN are 1700+ for Palestinians and 600+ for israelis. Now tell me who is targetting civilians??

And as i said before suicide bombings didnt start till the 1990s after palestinians had exhausted every other avenue and the israelis rejected them all.

[shahzadi88]

me and bin ladan could be really tight homies..WE BOTH HATE BUSH

[ShivaChrist]

http://www.ict.org.il/spotlight/det.cfm?id=774

The action of saints.... /sarcasm off

[NumbaOneStunna]

http://www.ict.org.il/spotlight/det.cfm?id=774

The action of saints.... /sarcasm off
Israeli Casualties: Adults and Minors
September 2000 to May 5, 2002
Civilian Injuries: 2,707
Civilian Deaths: 319
Source: Israel Defense Forces


Israeli Fatalities of Minors Under Age 18
October 2001 to May 5, 2002
Israelis Minors Killed by Palestinians in the Occupied Territories: 14 (ages 5 months to 17)
(1 by stoning, 2 by beating and stoning, 7 by gunfire and 4 by suicide bombing)
12 percent of total civilian fatalities (117)
Israeli Minors Killed by Palestinians in Israel: 37 (ages 7 months to 17)
(2 by gunfire and 35 by suicide bombing)
21 percent of total civilian fatalities (178)
Source: B'Tselem, Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories


Palestinian Casualties: Adults and Minors in the West Bank and Gaza Strip
September 2000 to May 6, 2002
Injuries: 19,189
Deaths: 1,538
Source: Palestine Red Crescent Society



Palestinian Fatalities of Minors Under Age 18
October 2001 to May 5, 2002
Palestinian Minors Killed by Israeli Security Forces in Occupied Territories
210 (ages 4 months to 17)
22 percent of total civilian fatalities (956)Palestinian Minors Killed by Israeli Citizens in Occupied Territories
1 (age 2 months) (by gunfire)
6 percent of total civilian fatalities (17)

Palestinian Minors Killed by Israeli Security Forces in Israel
1 (age 14) (by Israeli police force)
5 percent of total civilian fatalities (22)

Deaths of Palestinian Minors Caused by Delay in Obtaining Medical Treatment Due to Israeli Restriction of Movement
8 (stillborn to age 11)
35 percent of total civilian fatalities (23)
Source: B'Tselem, Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories



http://journalism.berkeley.edu/projects/arccrisis/ispal-casualty.html

End of discussion right here :shock:

[angrynacho]

They take your kids, teach them to hate as children, and keep teaching them till they are adults. We are LUCKY we live here where we can't be indoctrinated like that.


No, they don't. What you're doing is dehumanizing and villifying these people. They are humans for fuck sakes. Everyone fears death and isn't just going to kill themselves for no reason. When this is your last option of attack, what else are you going to do? For fucks sake, Israel will send in tanks and destroy your village if a couple of kids are throwing rocks.


In addition to that, they are told their family will be taken care of (fed/given lots of money, etc) and that they are going to Heaven for their acts, and then these brainwashed people go ahead, strap the bombs on and go kill innocents.

And we aren't doing anything better? Bush gives a speech once in a while to the dead soldiers saying that they'll go to Heaven, nobody doubts that. People would look at me pretty angrily if I said US soldiers would be going to Hell instead of Heaven.

I got good friends from high school--kids that i've hung out with since I was in the 1st grade--that joined the army because they were indoctrinated with bullshit after 9/11. A lot of them were really smart and probably could have gone to college and done real well in life. And now what the fuck are they doing straight out of high school? In some bullshit war. FUCK that.

Now, if you actually do your homework you will see that out of two horrible options, America chose the one with the least casualties.

Since The Bomb was brought up, I'll note that the bombing of Japan was not necessary. Within the first month or two of 1945, Roosevelt received an surrender offer from Japan. Japan was effectively being carpetbombed. By May, Germany was out of the war and Japan was convinced that they were screwed. There are other well-documented attempts by Japan to end the war before The Bomb. This isn't some crackhead theory either. Many MILITARY leaders said the bomb wasn't necessary. Americans are just accepting Truman's justification.

Nuking Japan wasn't fucking necessary.

[angrynacho]

http://www.ict.org.il/spotlight/det.cfm?id=774

The action of saints.... /sarcasm off

If you want to start putting up links, well...

http://www.btselem.org/

Mind you, that is an ISRAELI website.

[ShivaChrist]

I think I'm going to stop posting on this thread... its like going in circles, and I'm getting dizzy. There's only so many times you can argue the same point - we just don't see eye to eye on the issue.

I like Bush, I think the Palestinians screw themselves each time they do a suicide bombing, etc.

You hate Bush, this the Palestinians have 'run out of options' so blowing up teenagers is ok, etc.

I don't think we can get anywhere at this rate.

[hidden thug]

I think I'm going to stop posting on this thread... its like going in circles, and I'm getting dizzy. There's only so many times you can argue the same point - we just don't see eye to eye on the issue.

I like Bush, I think the Palestinians screw themselves each time they do a suicide bombing, etc.

You hate Bush, this the Palestinians have 'run out of options' so blowing up teenagers is ok, etc.

I don't think we can get anywhere at this rate.

shiva,

you make a good point though lol
keep in mind their DESIS your talkin to, they think their the shit and practice their free speech but do it allllll wrong. everyone up here kept talkin about how bush is bad but you kept on makin the same point about blowing up cafes and night clubs (which is a pretty good point) and nobody has disputed that. but then again im desi also :cry:

my cousins live in palestine. 2 of them are no longer with us right now (RIP) but i have a couple still there. I asked them this same question wayy back and basically they said they have NO CHOICE. their not gods they dont automatically know where every military target is, all the israeli military targets are kept secret from palestinians. most of the suicide bombings were not by night clubs though, mostly cafes and stores, bar mitvah party halls, etc.. they bomb basically anything because THESE SAME HALLS, THESE SAME NIGHT CLUBS, THESE SAME CAFES USED TO BE MASJIDS! they broke our masjids, and they replaced it with locations that discrace us, like night clubs. if you go down palestine you'll see 10 night halls IN A ROW. Why do we really need 10 night clubs in a row? isnt one or two enough? they do it on purpose to mock us, and they build more and more so they can occupy more land. the palestines use suicide bombings to destroy these night clubs. but thats a little of what i know is FACT.. go to palestine and see for yourself.. shivachrist, you want them to bomb military targets, you just lead us and show us where they are.. if you dont know, how would we?

[vaatyaar]

I don't think shiva has ever heard the palestinian's (I didn't say saudi or hamas .. i said palestinian) point of view.

My best friend was telling me last thursday about two of his cousins, both in early teens, who were taken away from their homes and imprisoned for no reason. Apparently, one of them had asthma and when he started gasping in the jail cell, the soldiers put a plastic bag over his head while he was still handcuffed. He never returned home, having asphyxiated to death. The other cousin returned home a few days later after seeing this tragedy. Oh yes, I forgot.. all the hatred comes only from being taught.

FYI: suicide bombing was invented by the jews in the 40s. Go read your history instead of being brainwashed by FOX.

[hidden thug]

I don't think shiva has ever heard the palestinian's (I didn't say saudi or hamas .. i said palestinian) point of view.

My best friend was telling me last thursday about two of his cousins, both in early teens, who were taken away from their homes and imprisoned for no reason. Apparently, one of them had asthma and when he started gasping in the jail cell, the soldiers put a plastic bag over his head while he was still handcuffed. He never returned home, having asphyxiated to death. The other cousin returned home a few days later after seeing this tragedy. Oh yes, I forgot.. all the hatred comes only from being taught.

FYI: suicide bombing was invented by the jews in the 40s. Go read your history instead of being brainwashed by FOX.

man thats sad.. sorry to hear that RIP..

for muslims that have relatives in palestine and in countries where its hard, they feel it too.. shit still hurts

i think shivachrist aint a bad person he's just been misinformed..

[angrynacho]

i think shivachrist aint a bad person he's just been misinformed..

True. Just like most of the US. Sucks.

[Sphinx7]

i think shivachrist aint a bad person he's just been misinformed..

tru indeed

and sadly, 85% of the U.S populous as well...

[ShivaChrist]

i think shivachrist aint a bad person he's just been misinformed..

See, that's your point of view - and unlike some of the others here, you said it without any malace and actually in a normal tone.

Thus, I approve.

I disagree with you, but I would much rather debate with you then some of the others like Nacho who resort to angry posts and personal attacks.

[angrynacho]

PERSONAL ATTACK!

[ShivaChrist]

Ok, see that was funny :)

[ishiqa]

I actually like shiva christ's posts but sometimes his logic tends to be the typical "I'm am American that believes in freedom!" , pro--Bush bullshit. He is blind to the true reality of the mid east and it's true opressors. He is also partial to Israel and I suspect him to be a bit anti-Islam. Overall, he's a smart guy but he is sadly misinformed. Here's a clue to you Shiva Christ, if you ever wish to belong in the desi community, then you should definitely start understanding DESIS and not just Indian movies. Otherwise, all your hard work and effort to score desi pussy will be in vain because you are sounding like a typical redneck idiot.

[anorexorcist]

Yeah...

The American Indians were "terrorists." The South African freedom movement, led by Nelson Mandela, was labaled as "terrorism." This country's own founding fathers were labeled as "terrorists." Now the Palestinians are being labeled as "terrorists."

All I'm saying is this...when you live in a place for a while, and suddenly someone moves in without permission, takes away your rights and your citzenship, takes away all the basic freedoms, and dignities that you once had, and you have NO ONE who will do JACK SHIT about it, when you have NO ONE in the world that fully supports you (the arab world HATES palestinians), when your buildings are "accidentally bombed" because the Israelis were targeting terrorists (a method that has been decried by the UN and the rest of the free world, though not the US...hmm), when the US comes out openly this week and says that it supports another country intruding on land that is rightfully yours...when you see people simply miles away living like kings and queens while you are DISGUSTINGLY the oppostie, having no decent standard of living...and finally...

when an israeli military "sweep" has "accidentally" killed someone you know that is closer than close to you, be it your father, your sister, your mother, your uncle, your aunt, relative, best friend, wife, girlfriend, child....anything....and you have all the above pressures on top of that...human psychology dictates that you cannot hold it together, you will snap, and human psychology also dictates a LUST for revenge that must be satiated. you deny that, a person will do more than suicide bomb, he will go more insane than he already is. i blame the israelis more because they have the power to stop the cycle somewhere--and they know since it'll be easier to wipe out any resistance in their path by continuing to hawkishly retaliate, with no regard for international law, by stoooping to the suicide bombers level--they will continue this cycle of death even though they have not "lost their minds" as have the suicide bombers who do it more out of overwhelming grief and near-insanity.

And that my friends is the story. To hell with Bush and to hell with Sharon. Sorry if that offends you Shiva, but that is the truth.

-Z-

[angelXeyes]

Yeah...

The American Indians were "terrorists." The South African freedom movement, led by Nelson Mandela, was labaled as "terrorism." This country's own founding fathers were labeled as "terrorists." Now the Palestinians are being labeled as "terrorists."

All I'm saying is this...when you live in a place for a while, and suddenly someone moves in without permission, takes away your rights and your citzenship, takes away all the basic freedoms, and dignities that you once had, and you have NO ONE who will do JACK SHIT about it, when you have NO ONE in the world that fully supports you (the arab world HATES palestinians), when your buildings are "accidentally bombed" because the Israelis were targeting terrorists (a method that has been decried by the UN and the rest of the free world, though not the US...hmm), when the US comes out openly this week and says that it supports another country intruding on land that is rightfully yours...when you see people simply miles away living like kings and queens while you are DISGUSTINGLY the oppostie, having no decent standard of living...and finally...

when an israeli military "sweep" has "accidentally" killed someone you know that is closer than close to you, be it your father, your sister, your mother, your uncle, your aunt, relative, best friend, wife, girlfriend, child....anything....and you have all the above pressures on top of that...human psychology dictates that you cannot hold it together, you will snap, and human psychology also dictates a LUST for revenge that must be satiated. you deny that, a person will do more than suicide bomb, he will go more insane than he already is. i blame the israelis more because they have the power to stop the cycle somewhere--and they know since it'll be easier to wipe out any resistance in their path by continuing to hawkishly retaliate, with no regard for international law, by stoooping to the suicide bombers level--they will continue this cycle of death even though they have not "lost their minds" as have the suicide bombers who do it more out of overwhelming grief and near-insanity.

And that my friends is the story. To hell with Bush and to hell with Sharon. Sorry if that offends you Shiva, but that is the truth.

-Z-

:salut:

[pkannan]

Sooo many people keep on sayin that America doesnt actively go after civilian targets. Well with all of the civlians that have been killed by "terrorists", i would like to know when that number will come close to equaling the number of INNOCENT CIVILIANS that were killed at hiroshima and nagasaki.

We were in the middle of a world war. Totally different situation... we had two options.

Option a) Take the final offensive with thousands upon thousands of marines attacking the Japanese beachheads (invading all of Japan), and losing so many lives in a bloody conflict that the Japanese were going to lose whether their honor wished to admit to this fact or not or

Option b) Drop a nuclear bomb, a weapon which had never been used in combat before, kill everyone in a isolated area, and save American lives from a sickening offensive attack that would end up with severe casualties.

They chose option 2.

Now, no Atom Bomb is a good atom bomb, but the bomb was still in its infancy. The bomb used in WWII was a lot weaker then the bombs we have now, and it still destroyed a city. Scary.

But at the time, atomic weapons had never been used in a armed conflict. But at the same time, we had never been in a World War of that extremety before, either.

Now, if you actually do your homework you will see that out of two horrible options, America chose the one with the least casualties.

Sucks, doesn't it? But that's what it came down to.

Ok the point was that america chose to sacrifice japanese CIVILIANS over their own and japans own MILITARY.
When u join the military there is a RISK, you are RISKING your life either voluntarily or through the compliance with the draft. CIVILIANS sitting at home tending to their children and grandchildren are not RISKING their lives. So in effect you are saying that if the situation is drastic enough KILLING OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN is absolutely ok. Or maybe its just ok for america.
Another point was that no america did not choose the one with the least casualties. Overall throughout the course of americas involvement in the ww2, they lost 292,131 soldiers. That is less that the number of CIVILIANS killed during those atom bomb attacks. At most if America had chosen to attack the beach heads, they would have taken AT MOST(and im greatly exaggerating here 100,000 losses) MILITARY LOSSES MIND YOU. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE Maybe japan would have lost about 100,000 as well. That is still 150,000 less than the atom bomb attacks.
Now as for the reason of being at war. WE ARE AT WAR NOW AND WERE FOR OVER A DECADE. Terrorist attacks didnt start recently, no they started well over half a century ago(in other parts of the world).
I'm sorry man but maybe you are the one that needs to do his homework. I fully considered all of the options that america had and the KILLING OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN would not have been my choice.

Oh yes, and by the way it does suck. It sucks that you think that the killing of women and children is ok.

especially when u are against the palestenians for killing teenagers in nightclubs.

and that u try and justify american actions when they are soo blatantly wrong. while you espouse things like "life is precious".

P.S. take your own advice and do some homework before making statements that are obvious falsities(referring to america made the choice that would yield the least casualties cough bullshit cough) p.s. if you would respond plz dont make random statements such as that. plz BACK it up with some relevant statistics and figures
OH yes and on a final note i would have to agree with those before me on the point that you are in fact grossly misinformed (either that or you would like to remain ignorant of the facts in order to preserve your image of America)

[ShivaChrist]

I actually like shiva christ's posts but sometimes his logic tends to be the typical "I'm am American that believes in freedom!" , pro--Bush bullshit. He is blind to the true reality of the mid east and it's true opressors. He is also partial to Israel and I suspect him to be a bit anti-Islam. Overall, he's a smart guy but he is sadly misinformed. Here's a clue to you Shiva Christ, if you ever wish to belong in the desi community, then you should definitely start understanding DESIS and not just Indian movies. Otherwise, all your hard work and effort to score desi pussy will be in vain because you are sounding like a typical redneck idiot.

The main thing though is not all Desi's are Islamic. But many of them are partial to Democrats rather then Republicans because they buy the party line of "Democrats for the poor/disenfranchised, Republicans for the rich/corporations."

I'm not partial to Israel but I feel if you lower yourself to strapping bombs on your kids then you're the worse of two evils. We can argue all about the "benefits" of being desperate, but to me that's taking it too far.

Oh, and I am an American that believes in freedom. Why else would my great-great grandparents have left their homelands to come here? I believe in the dream, whether others do or not.

[ishiqa]

I actually like shiva christ's posts but sometimes his logic tends to be the typical "I'm am American that believes in freedom!" , pro--Bush bullshit. He is blind to the true reality of the mid east and it's true opressors. He is also partial to Israel and I suspect him to be a bit anti-Islam. Overall, he's a smart guy but he is sadly misinformed. Here's a clue to you Shiva Christ, if you ever wish to belong in the desi community, then you should definitely start understanding DESIS and not just Indian movies. Otherwise, all your hard work and effort to score desi pussy will be in vain because you are sounding like a typical redneck idiot.

The main thing though is not all Desi's are Islamic. But many of them are partial to Democrats rather then Republicans because they buy the party line of "Democrats for the poor/disenfranchised, Republicans for the rich/corporations."

I'm not partial to Israel but I feel if you lower yourself to strapping bombs on your kids then you're the worse of two evils. We can argue all about the "benefits" of being desperate, but to me that's taking it too far.

Oh, and I am an American that believes in freedom. Why else would my great-great grandparents have left their homelands to come here? I believe in the dream, whether others do or not.
I'm a Hindu and I believe that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine deserve to live in peace. I once knew a Jewish Zionist girl in school that would tell me stories of how her favorite pastime was throwing rocks at Arab children and taunting them. Sounds to me like the Israelis are also part of the hate campaign.

I do not expect you to agree with me since you get most of your propaganda from the Shiv Sena. Even if you went to India, you will definitely find an endless stream of Bush haters. They can be Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian or Parsis, it doesn't matter. Desis are in unison when it comes to the US poilicy in Iraq.

[ShivaChrist]

India? Try Europe in general.

Doesn't mean I change my view on the situation. Anytime you blow up innocents in a campaign of terror (which is what terrorism comes from) like the suicide bombers do, theres no way in hell I'm going to sit back and try to justify that. Ever.

Let's move this thread to Serious Discussions or something so I ignore it - I'm getting tired of being called ignorant because my opinion on what is right and what is wrong is different from yours.

[dj XeNo]

If america cared about civlians why did they use a shock and awe campaign in Iraq and why did they use cluster bombs?

And as far as Isreal not commiting acts of terrorism, I'm really not gonna touch on that because if you know what happened in Jenin and if dropping a one ton bomb on a civilian neighborhood aint terrorism I don't know what is.

For all the jerkoffs who support Israel, I recommend picking up "Israel vs. Palestine" by Tanya Reinhart.

If you would like i can transcribe some of the passages to enlighten some of yall.

[anorexorcist]

blow up innocents in a campaign of terror (which is what terrorism comes from)...theres no way in hell I'm going to sit back and try to justify that. Ever.

So you support Hiroshima? Vietnam? Our funding of Saddam and Osama in the '80s? Our live and let-live policy to the Taliban in the '90s? The nearly 10000 civilians that have been killed in Iraq (by "accident," mind you - what one person calls a "campaign of terror" may be a justified "freedom fight" to another). If killing 10000 civilians in a year is not a campaign of terror, barging into another country unilaterally, and then staying there with no support from the rest of the world, disregarding "proper procedure" to take care of the problems...you're messed up. Admit that wrong exists on both ends of the spectrum my friend, then we can discuss.

And OH YES, what DJ xeno said about Israel in Jenin - plus don't forget what they call Sharon - "The Butcher of Beirut" - it is for a reason - hundreds of Palestinians butchered at Sabra and Satila. But no, accidents, right?

When you have power and control over the media and moral persuasion on your side, OF COURSE you'll make it look like it was an accident - no violent death in my opinion is ever an "accident."

So admit it my friend, the "just and noble campaign" you think that the US and Israel are carrying out is bad in its own way as well. If you disagree then hypocrisy has been unearthed.

-Z-

[gt_sweetness]

blow up innocents in a campaign of terror (which is what terrorism comes from)...theres no way in hell I'm going to sit back and try to justify that. Ever.

So you support Hiroshima? Vietnam? Our funding of Saddam and Osama in the '80s? Our live and let-live policy to the Taliban in the '90s? The nearly 10000 civilians that have been killed in Iraq (by "accident," mind you - what one person calls a "campaign of terror" may be a justified "freedom fight" to another). If killing 10000 civilians in a year is not a campaign of terror, barging into another country unilaterally, and then staying there with no support from the rest of the world, disregarding "proper procedure" to take care of the problems...you're messed up. Admit that wrong exists on both ends of the spectrum my friend, then we can discuss.

And OH YES, what DJ xeno said about Israel in Jenin - plus don't forget what they call Sharon - "The Butcher of Beirut" - it is for a reason - hundreds of Palestinians butchered at Sabra and Satila. But no, accidents, right?

When you have power and control over the media and moral persuasion on your side, OF COURSE you'll make it look like it was an accident - no violent death in my opinion is ever an "accident."

So admit it my friend, the "just and noble campaign" you think that the US and Israel are carrying out is bad in its own way as well. If you disagree then hypocrisy has been unearthed.

-Z-

well said

[Anacian]

It's hard to side with Shivachrist on anything because he writes like some kid that just got finished watching CNN.

[ShivaChrist]

blow up innocents in a campaign of terror (which is what terrorism comes from)...theres no way in hell I'm going to sit back and try to justify that. Ever.

So you support Hiroshima? Vietnam? Our funding of Saddam and Osama in the '80s? Our live and let-live policy to the Taliban in the '90s? The nearly 10000 civilians that have been killed in Iraq (by "accident," mind you - what one person calls a "campaign of terror" may be a justified "freedom fight" to another). -Z-

Yes, I support what happened in World War II. We were down to two options, both of which I have already gone over and feel I don't need to repeat again.

As for Saddam and Osama, the world is a shitty place. For a global power, you have to move about carefully. One decade you might have an ally one later becomes an enemy, and vice verca. Before you give me a moral lesson (and I'm afraid the world doesn't work on morality alone, whether you or I wish it did), at that time, supporting those people helped the US against their enemies in the '80s.

As for 10,000 innocent deaths? Go get a life and stop reading webpages.

Do you realize how hard we would have to try, no, not just try, but have to target civilians on purpose to kill ten thousand civilians?!? Yet here you are trying to convince me that the US, the country of freedom of speech and democracy (oh, I guess we're evil so those are lies, too?) actively targeted ten thousand innocents? I noticed the quotes around those words, they have a meaning of their own.

You can convince innocent people with no real-world knowledge, but I can see right through your post. Conquering Iraq turned out to be easy - we rode right into Bagdad by the end. We did not kill ten thousand innocents as much as you want to believe how evil we are.

Heck, we try to have minimum civilian casualties, and still people like you sit and accuse the US of actively targetting civilians. You wonder why I don't agree with you?

Because most of your post is filled with illogical statements. We had no reason to target innocent civilians!

All you care about is spewing out your anger, and why the US is wrong, and all your arguments showcase this. It just makes me sad to see that people buy that argument.

Oh, and next time you sit and bitch about the US "killing 10,000 innocent civilians" try to remember that we're the ones who found countless mass-graves all over Iraq that Hussain had thrown bodies into of his enemies.

You want to know the only thing the US did wrong?

We should have finished Hussein off 10 years ago. When we didn't, a lot of innocent people did die back then, because they revolted against Hussein and thought we were coming in to help.

We didn't.

This time we did. The same people who had revolted before didn't at first, because they were wary of the same fate, but when they finally saw that we were serious, they helped the US.

You want honesty - I give you honesty that is level-headed. Right now I'm a debating my feelings on the current scope of the occupation. When marines sit around and get sniped/blown up and don't respond, I don't like it. The US needs to take a more active role in taking out these threats (which they are starting to).

If they're just going to stand around and get shot, then I would consider their withdrawl. That's not what a peace-keeping force is supposed to do.

Edit: I'm through on this thread for real this time... I write like some kid who just finished watching CNN? Right. You take your personal attacks and relish in the fact that that's the best you can do.

[anorexorcist]

It boils down to this:

The US is not the morally super-perfect country you deem it to be. OK, it may not be totally at the level of evil. But we have done some dirty shit, we are currently DOING some dirty shit, and the fact that you just accept this high-road-morally-justified argument that Rummy makes every day without questioning it is an example of how much of an influence the media truly has. At the very least, admit that we are not pure humanitarians as the government would like us to think.

You don't think the world hates the US for no reason, do you? Even EUROPEANS - RICH, upper-class Europeans - so don't give me the argument that people hate because "they're jealous." In fact, anyone would be happy to NOT be a part of the US labor force today because of the shitty state our economy is in.

Also, 10000 deaths is not a false statistic - it has not happened all at once but slowly over the period of a year since we entered. It is a statistical fact - and here there is a difference apparently between how you and I analyze information - you question statistics while I question opinionated beliefs (those that the US attempts to convey, specifically regarding its nature).

-Z-

[pkannan]

Hmm

No response to my post.

Well, i guess i effectively proved that the U.S. chose the wrong method of ending world war 2.

Oh and by the way Shiva, it honestly does seem like you are totally for the U.S. no matter what they do. No matter what attrocities they commit. i wish u would see that the U.S. is not a knight in shining armor working for the good of the world. No in fact it only works for the good of itself. ME, MYSELF, AND I is the U.S. motto and has been for quite a while. And you say that the Europeans have a problem.

I just wish you would admit when u were wrong. It seems as though u try and be all against the killing of innocents and high and mighty (no offence), BUT ONLY WHEN it suits your ideologies and wants. That is an extreeeme case of situational morality. thus u effectively make your points invalid.

see if you said, "yes, all i care about is myself and what happens to me here in the U.S." atleast i could understand that view. Now it just seems like you are trying to have ur cake and eat it too.

i am not making personal attacks, i am just pointing out that ur arguments are not logically sound.

that is my piece,
peace

[ShivaChrist]

I already said I was done with this thread - you go pat yourself on your back.

The US may not be a "Knight in shining armor" but its the only reason we all aren't seeing the Red of Communism today. Though of course, you probably feel Communism would be infinitely better then capitalism I'm sure. It may not be a Knight in shining armor, but its the closest thing we have in this world. I've been all over; I've been to Europe, to the former communist USSR (both before and after their 'fall'), etc. and what we have here in the US is much more honest then there. Part of that reason is because our media is free to speak their mind unlike in other places - as was seen in Vietnam (which was part of the reason people started condemning that war); oh, wait, I forgot you probably feel our media is full of BS too.

/done with thread!

[pkannan]

lol

u said u were done with the thread like 3 times already. yet u keep coming back. :lol:

n e ways to answer your question. yes i do think the american media is somewhat biased. all the major media corps are owned by jewish people therefore they absolutely maintain strict control over the type of content they broadcast. most n e thing bad about isreal or pro-islam or pro-palestinian is never heard. do you notice how hard of a time Mel Gibson had getting a film studio to distribute his film? i dont think the american media is the best out there, i think that BBC is a more unbiased source.

btw u sound like u are really angry or something. there is no shame in being wrong. as long as you have the guts to admit to it.

also sorry if sounded arrogant, that was my bad

that is my piece
peace

[angrynacho]

Yes, I support what happened in World War II. We were down to two options, both of which I have already gone over and feel I don't need to repeat again.

Except... you ignored my reply =(

We should have finished Hussein off 10 years ago. When we didn't, a lot of innocent people did die back then, because they revolted against Hussein and thought we were coming in to help.

Well, according to this logic, "we" should kick Vajpayee's ass too (along, of course, with other South Asian leaders).