~*Religion*~

[cutenoreen]

Do you follow yourz because your family does or because you actually have faith in them?

Also have you ever considered following any other religion other than yourz?

Last what exactly do you believe?

[apathy]

umm..im muslim. but im not religious. i havent thought of converting to anything else, but i have thought of what their religion is like, and what if my religion is wrong and some other religion that is hated by every other person on earth is actually the right religion...or what if there is no religion, no god, no heaven, no hell...nothing

[Guju_Guy]

i follow mine because i have faith in it not because if of my parents, even if they converted i wud still follow mine, if they decided to jump off the bridge wud i do the same? harsh methaphor i kno!

i havnt considered other religions but i have been curious..ive looked into a few jus to c the different contrasts between me religion and other religion..

my relgion?...im a Gujarati Hindu..Caste- Vaishnav

[cutenoreen]

Hmmm interesting.

So the two of you can say without hesitation that there is a 'god'?

[Anil]

I've been raised Protestant Christian but I am more of a moderate Protestant...as in I have a few Catholic beliefs pertaining to judgement day and whatnot....

My parents believe in heaven and that you must accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior in order to get to heaven...

I've strayed to believe that no matter what religion you are baptized into...Islam...Hindu....Christian...Buddhism....et c, as long as you are faithful to your respective precepts, you are able to enter "heaven".

[DesiStud1022]

Jews are cool.

[cutenoreen]

Jews are cool.

Ok.

[ali_tx]

i follow the religion of...hmm go mavericks! :P

[Arjuna]

im an angelican christian and hindu.. i believe both their core philosofies do not conflict.

[ammad]

I AM A MUSLIM, AND A PROUD ONE , alhumdolillah . i have some exp in life which made my beliefs grow even stronger that Allah is the one and only and he is the creator of this universe all alone .... and all of us are his servants, and he loves everyone , believing and accepting him or not .. he loves u both the ways !!!

and no i dont consider any other religion as pure as islam .. and thats why i never considered changing ..alhumdolillah my eman is pukhta "solid as rock" .. May allah keep it that way !!!

but that doesnt mean i hate all other people who dont believe in islam ..i respect religion in general ... except sattanism assholes.... i respect every religion from depths of my heart !!!

as far as they teach to believe that there is creator who made us .. dats enuff for me !!!

cuz really there is a creator who made us and who controls everythign and whoes watchign us 24/7

[ali_tx]

lol i am muslim too!

[cutenoreen]

except sattanism assholes....

hahaha that made me laugh!

also get creeped out cause I am home alone and there are strange noises outside... *yikez!*

[cutenoreen]

i follow the religion of...hmm go mavericks! :P


oooo Mavericks are kool!

[ammad]

except sattanism assholes.... i respect every religion from depths of my heart !!!

hahaha that made me laugh!

also get creeped out cause I am home alone and there are strange noises outside... *yikez!*


justtt readd 4 qul and ayatul qursi if u know that ...u shud know it by heart ...

nothign will ever harm u ...............!!!!!

[cutenoreen]

justtt readd 4 qula nd ayatul qursi if u know that ...u shud know it by heart ...

nothign will ever harm u ...............!!!!!

1. I am not that scared

2. I do not follow Islam

[Aurovon]

RELIGION...widely debated topic. Me...personally am not a "religous" guy exactly. I do believe in God..just because I just dont see how can anything be in this world..how can it just be there out of nowhere? even before the "big bang theory" and etc etc. Anyways, if you don't believe in god - its all good...you got ur opinion and so do I. Plus, the way I see it..it can only help you to believe in God..i don't see how it will do you any harm. Now waht religion and what god? Anything and everything, I am open to any religon and any god..ask me if u believe in christ..il say ya..ask bout allah..il say ya..ask bout krishna..il say ya. God is God to me. When people take it to the extreme and have biast and narrow minded opinion about other religions and people due to their religion- that's what I do not like. So me personally..I am glad where I stand.

[maDz]

salamz all ....

i m MUSLIM ( ALHAMDULLILLAH ) ... and proud to be muslim ... ISLAM is simply a perfect religion ... no one can compete with it .. Islam is a key o sucess ... so anyone want sucess in this and in upcoming life ... just hold islam ... i luv to be a muslim ... and i m proud to be a muslim .. and i m very very thanxfull to GOD tht he born me as a Muslim ....
and as far as other religion ... i respect them all .. ... coz Islam teaches us tht respect every religion ...

ISLAM IS GREAT ........... MAY ALLAH SHOW US RITE PATH ..........

m a d z Z z

[Flow_Motion]

I'm a muslim... A Sunni muslim... And my parents never really forced religion on us... They tried to presuade us to be better muslims, but come on, my parents aren't that religious either... But a few years back these tablighi jamaats0 came to my house, and wouldn't take "No", or "Get lost" for an answer, and allhumdulillah, I've become a better muslim ever since...

[gujulicious]

i was raised being a hindu so im never gonna convert ...altho i believe that theres only one god

[PyariPariPri]

i'm hindu... but i kinda beleive in heaven too.. i duno but its all good b/c technically hinduism is secular.....

[maDz]

In praise of Islamic civilization
Extract from a speech by Carly Fiorina, CEO of Hewlett-Packard.

There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world.

It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins.

One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization’s commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.

And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration.

Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.

When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others.

While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I’m talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.

Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Arab mathematicians. Sufi poet-philosophers like Rumi challenged our notions of self and truth. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership.

And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population–that included Christianity, Islamic, and Jewish traditions.

This kind of enlightened leadership — leadership that nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage — led to 800 years of invention and prosperity.

In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness. More than ever, we must focus on the importance of leadership– bold acts of leadership and decidedly personal acts of leadership.

[gujulicious]

:shock:

[Arjuna]

i was raised being a hindu so im never gonna convert ...altho i believe that theres only one god


erm i dunno wut ur talking about.. hinduism believes in one supreme god too

[ShivaChrist]

You guys do realize Islam was created about 600-700 years after Christianity. Now, I am not a practicing Christian or anything, but I find it interesting how fervent you guys are about it being the one true religion. Wouldn't it have been thought up first if it was the one true religion and not 600-700 years after Christianity? Then there is Hinduism which I think is even older then that... then you got the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods... etc. etc.

Anyway.

I think I should just start my own religion... it would be simple: Find the best from each religion and mash them together.

[Arjuna]

i'm hindu... but i kinda beleive in heaven too.. i duno but its all good b/c technically hinduism is secular.....

erm hinduism believes in heaven too we call it 'swarg' and 'narkg' for hell

[Arjuna]

You guys do realize Islam was created about 600-700 years after Christianity. Now, I am not a practicing Christian or anything, but I find it interesting how fervent you guys are about it being the one true religion. Wouldn't it have been thought up first if it was the one true religion and not 600-700 years after Christianity? Then there is Hinduism which I think is even older then that... then you got the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods... etc. etc.

Anyway.

I think I should just start my own religion... it would be simple: Find the best from each religion and mash them together.

that true hinduism is the oldest religion of all started all the way 2500 bc from the indus valley :o

[PyariPariPri]

i'm hindu... but i kinda beleive in heaven too.. i duno but its all good b/c technically hinduism is secular.....

erm hinduism believes in heaven too we call it 'swarg' and 'narkg' for hell

oh..thank you.. i didnt know that..


baisically, if you beleive in some sort of God i think you'll be fine in your afterlife...*shrug*

hinduism is muy lenient.. no?

[Arjuna]

i'm hindu... but i kinda beleive in heaven too.. i duno but its all good b/c technically hinduism is secular.....

erm hinduism believes in heaven too we call it 'swarg' and 'narkg' for hell

oh..thank you.. i didnt know that..


baisically, if you beleive in some sort of God i think you'll be fine in your afterlife...*shrug*

hinduism is muy lenient.. no?

our philosofphy? since every1's unique ..all genuinely good sincrece beliefs are facets of god :)

so tecnically if i go to a church or mosque or have my own way of worshiping i can still be considered a good hindu as long as i sincrely believe it is a good deed.

[PoshNor]

i'm muslim. i believe in my religion whole-heartedly. i wouldn't change it for anything in the world. No, i don't follow it because my parents do.

You guys do realize Islam was created about 600-700 years after Christianity. Now, I am not a practicing Christian or anything, but I find it interesting how fervent you guys are about it being the one true religion. Wouldn't it have been thought up first if it was the one true religion and not 600-700 years after Christianity? Then there is Hinduism which I think is even older then that... then you got the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods... etc. etc.

Anyway.

I think I should just start my own religion... it would be simple: Find the best from each religion and mash them together.

sorry, but if u knew anything about Islam, u would know that the Qur'an tells about Adam and Eve, heck even before Adam and Eve. The Qur'an also tells about other Books and Prophets. So actually Islam, IMO was "founded" since Allah made Adam and Eve.

The only reason the other books like the bible and torah got changed was to create nations and religions. so mankind could be different and divided.

[ShivaChrist]

i'm muslim. i believe in my religion whole-heartedly. i wouldn't change it for anything in the world. No, i don't follow it because my parents do.

You guys do realize Islam was created about 600-700 years after Christianity. Now, I am not a practicing Christian or anything, but I find it interesting how fervent you guys are about it being the one true religion. Wouldn't it have been thought up first if it was the one true religion and not 600-700 years after Christianity? Then there is Hinduism which I think is even older then that... then you got the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods... etc. etc.

Anyway.

I think I should just start my own religion... it would be simple: Find the best from each religion and mash them together.

sorry, but if u knew anything about Islam, u would know that the Qur'an tells about Adam and Eve, heck even before Adam and Eve. The Qur'an also tells about other Books and Prophets. So actually Islam, IMO was "founded" since Allah made Adam and Eve.

The only reason the other books like the bible and torah got changed was to create nations and religions. so mankind could be different and divided.

Wait... you're confusing me... you're saying that the Qur'an, which was written around the time Islam was made (600-700 years after Christianity and the Bible), was still written first? Even though its well known that Islam wasn't around till 600-700 AD?

*scratches head*

[Flow_Motion]

Wait... you're confusing me... you're saying that the Qur'an, which was written around the time Islam was made (600-700 years after Christianity and the Bible), was still written first? Even though its well known that Islam wasn't around till 600-700 AD?

*scratches head*

You seem to be like the typical brainwashed American, with your ignorant ways, that hates on Islam... This is why I hate you forever!

[Sphinx7]

Wait... you're confusing me... you're saying that the Qur'an, which was written around the time Islam was made (600-700 years after Christianity and the Bible), was still written first? Even though its well known that Islam wasn't around till 600-700 AD?

*scratches head*

You seem to be like the typical brainwashed American, with your ignorant ways, that hates on Islam... This is why I hate you forever!

hahah..aiiight

this is tru indeed, this character ChivaChrist is lost on the legacy of Christ.
the point ur making about Islam coming after Christianity doesnt hold no water man. what are you stressing here??? :?

Do you even know the concepts that were practiced/studied b4 Christianity???

Do you know the origins of Christianity?? the B.i.b.l.e is not a original doctrine, neither is it a solid source, rather a plajerized book.

[Sphinx7]

You guys do realize Islam was created about 600-700 years after Christianity. Now, I am not a practicing Christian or anything, but I find it interesting how fervent you guys are about it being the one true religion. Wouldn't it have been thought up first if it was the one true religion and not 600-700 years after Christianity? Then there is Hinduism which I think is even older then that... then you got the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods... etc. etc.

Anyway.

I think I should just start my own religion... it would be simple: Find the best from each religion and mash them together.

that true hinduism is the oldest religion of all started all the way 2500 bc from the indus valley :o

damn damn damn
eye been reading this thread and its amazing how lost and tooled you people are....shit.

Hinduism is not a religion, rather a spiritual system, way of life.

[NumbaOneStunna]

i'm muslim. i believe in my religion whole-heartedly. i wouldn't change it for anything in the world. No, i don't follow it because my parents do.

You guys do realize Islam was created about 600-700 years after Christianity. Now, I am not a practicing Christian or anything, but I find it interesting how fervent you guys are about it being the one true religion. Wouldn't it have been thought up first if it was the one true religion and not 600-700 years after Christianity? Then there is Hinduism which I think is even older then that... then you got the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods... etc. etc.

Anyway.

I think I should just start my own religion... it would be simple: Find the best from each religion and mash them together.

sorry, but if u knew anything about Islam, u would know that the Qur'an tells about Adam and Eve, heck even before Adam and Eve. The Qur'an also tells about other Books and Prophets. So actually Islam, IMO was "founded" since Allah made Adam and Eve.

The only reason the other books like the bible and torah got changed was to create nations and religions. so mankind could be different and divided.

Wait... you're confusing me... you're saying that the Qur'an, which was written around the time Islam was made (600-700 years after Christianity and the Bible), was still written first? Even though its well known that Islam wasn't around till 600-700 AD?

*scratches head*
According to Islam Allah has sent prophets to each and every part of the globe inhabited by people since the very start of mankind.

Some muslims claim that maybe even Krishna or Rama were some of these prophets that Islam talks about.

[ammad]

islam never denied christ or jewish prrophets .. or these religion.. islam admits the truth of these monothiestic religions to a certain level.. because both judaism and christianity have been changed due to time ...... and thats what quran points out .. that if these religions wud have stick to their original forms .. they wud have been just as fine as islam itself ... how ever shiva i think u need to hangout with some msulim people .. ur just hagning out with people who just have negative views about islam !!
and i can see dat very well ...

may u will see the truth .. !!!

[ShivaChrist]

Wait... you're confusing me... you're saying that the Qur'an, which was written around the time Islam was made (600-700 years after Christianity and the Bible), was still written first? Even though its well known that Islam wasn't around till 600-700 AD?

*scratches head*

You seem to be like the typical brainwashed American, with your ignorant ways, that hates on Islam... This is why I hate you forever!

So does this mean you're going to fly an airplane into my house now?

Hey, bad joke there *insert drum roll*

Yeah, I guess I do sound brainwashed and ignorant... having a religion appear 600 years after another, yet still having its book come out before the older religions does make more sense.

lol

Sorry, you can hate me I guess but I don't hate you. I've got no reason to. btw, I never said I hated Islam. Not once in any post have I said I hate Islam. I disagree with some things, but I do not hate. You wrote that bit in yourself.

[Arjuna]

You guys do realize Islam was created about 600-700 years after Christianity. Now, I am not a practicing Christian or anything, but I find it interesting how fervent you guys are about it being the one true religion. Wouldn't it have been thought up first if it was the one true religion and not 600-700 years after Christianity? Then there is Hinduism which I think is even older then that... then you got the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods... etc. etc.

Anyway.

I think I should just start my own religion... it would be simple: Find the best from each religion and mash them together.

that true hinduism is the oldest religion of all started all the way 2500 bc from the indus valley :o

damn damn damn
eye been reading this thread and its amazing how lost and tooled you people are....shit.

Hinduism is not a religion, rather a spiritual system, way of life.

haha ur a fool.

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re·li·gion·less adjective

proves how ignorant u are.

[PoshNor]

grrr. what i'm saying isn't that the Qur'an existed before the Bible, cuz before Prophet Jesus came, Prophet Muhammad didnt, get it?

ok hmm. lets put it this way. The Qur'an tells about Adam and Eve, yes. The Qur'an tells about Noah, Moses, Jesus, yes it does. The Qur'an also tells about Prophet Muhammad, yes. So just like the Bible and Torah, the Qur'an talks about those prophets in those books. But the original Bible and Torah got changed and became other religions. i know not very clear at all. cut me some slack, i'm trying lol.

[pnjbabygurl]

i am a sikh and im proud to be one...even thou i kno i could be a way way wayyyyy better sikh then i am rii now...but i think im more of a spiritual person...i do agree with the sikh ideology thou....i dont' have enough knowledge about the other religions so i am not able to say if i would be something else...i think all religons are like rivers and lakes that flow into the big ocean which is god...i believe in god n' i respect anybody that believes anything else...i do think dat nobody can say that their religion is above anybodys else!!!!!!!!!!....sorry if i offended anybody...das just wut i think...

[ShivaChrist]

According to Islam Allah has sent prophets to each and every part of the globe inhabited by people since the very start of mankind.

Some muslims claim that maybe even Krishna or Rama were some of these prophets that Islam talks about.

Let me ask you something - in *total* seriousness... not trying to start a yelling argument or anything (but it seems people are more passionate about religion then anything else in the entire world).

The question is - isn't that the least bit convenient?

I mean, why believe that? Imagine - if Islam had been first, and Christianity had come in 600 AD, and Christianity then claimed "God sent Christian prophets to each and every part of the globe since the very start of mankind"

Would you believe it? I seriously doubt it :)

But because its Islam, it has to be true.

See, that's why I don't buy it - its such a convenient answer, yet if the other religions were placed in the same situation, they would be lies.

[angrynacho]

i'm hindu... but i kinda beleive in heaven too.. i duno but its all good b/c technically hinduism is secular.....

erm hinduism believes in heaven too we call it 'swarg' and 'narkg' for hell

It isn't the Christian concept of heaven/hell. Like Buddhism, heaven and hell are just states of minds that YOU create. You don't get sent there or anything.

Basically, if you really enjoy the material world, that is fine. Everyone has to enjoy it sometime or another. Soon you'll get sick of it (if not in this life, then the next, or the next).. Once you no longer get happiness from material things, you'll stop being reincarnated and you get become part of God. The definition of God is very different than what it suggests because God isn't a person that controls things or anything. It is just kind of like a being that you become part of.

baisically, if you beleive in some sort of God i think you'll be fine in your afterlife...*shrug*

Well, Hinduism isn't all about people beleiving in something and then getting rewarded for it. See above. It is all part of this cycle that people go through.

Hinduism is not a religion, rather a spiritual system, way of life.

Definitions are boring. You can argue it either way. I can argue that the fact that Hinduism has a concept of godhead and reincarnation suggests that it is a religion. I mean, how else do you define religion?

Shiva: You don't need to have a written book to have proof of a religion. Hinduism wouldn't be that old if it required a book. It was 'created' during a time where written texts did not exist and things floated by mouth.

[NumbaOneStunna]

You dont have to believe in it. Its fine if you think Islam is a sham and christianity or some other religion is not. Its your choice.

However, if you really look at it from a logical point of view does it not make sense though? Why would God only send out prophets in one part of the world and completely ignore his creations in other parts? Or why would he wait so long to send one out? No other religion efectively tackles these questions.

[ShivaChrist]

grrr. what i'm saying isn't that the Qur'an existed before the Bible, cuz before Prophet Jesus came, Prophet Muhammad didnt, get it?

ok hmm. lets put it this way. The Qur'an tells about Adam and Eve, yes. The Qur'an tells about Noah, Moses, Jesus, yes it does. The Qur'an also tells about Prophet Muhammad, yes. So just like the Bible and Torah, the Qur'an talks about those prophets in those books. But the original Bible and Torah got changed and became other religions. i know not very clear at all. cut me some slack, i'm trying lol.

You're doing fine, Posh :) I just feel that the Qur'an has also been changed. Anything man touches changes... yes, we suck - but we do that. Even if it was written by God Himself, over the years man changes the words - whether through translation (even translation within the same language), after disputes, altering a word or phrase slightly to get a desired effect out of the work etc.

Now - you may think I'm singling out Islam (I'm sure others feel that way) but I'm not. I think every religion has faced the same thing. The Bible I might read isn't the bible of 2000 years ago. The same as every other book that man has touched.

Even if God is pure, we aren't. Though we try to be! :)

[ShivaChrist]

i think all religons are like rivers and lakes that flow into the big ocean which is god...i believe in god n' i respect anybody that believes anything else...i do think dat nobody can say that their religion is above anybodys else!!!!!!!!!!....sorry if i offended anybody...das just wut i think...

Exactly what I believe (for the most part)... you are on your way to becoming a Karma-Yogi for sure :P

[ShivaChrist]

You dont have to believe in it. Its fine if you think Islam is a sham and christianity or some other religion is not. Its your choice.

However, if you really look at it from a logical point of view does it not make sense though? Why would God only send out prophets in one part of the world and completely ignore his creations in other parts? Or why would he wait so long to send one out? No other religion efectively tackles these questions.

Right, but if Islam had sent out these prophets long before Christianity, Islam would have formed before Christianity as well. They wouldn't have waited in hiding till 600 years after Christianity to show their faces.

One thing I've learned tonight is arguing religion is like arguing with a brick wall... and hey, I'll admit that I can also be considered a wall as well. I just believe that the more stringent and narrow an opinion - the more likely its false.

That's the way everything else in the world works.

Anyway, I'm done - don't want to keep arguing. I'm glad to see there are a lot of spiritual people on the site though :)

[Arjuna]

angry nacho.. in many great epics of hinduism there are many references to heaven as thats where god fought againts Rakshus (demons) etc sending them to hell and so .. hindusism like christianity also has its death angel come from heaven to claim a life. Yuvraj was the death angel here.

[NumbaOneStunna]

You dont have to believe in it. Its fine if you think Islam is a sham and christianity or some other religion is not. Its your choice.

However, if you really look at it from a logical point of view does it not make sense though? Why would God only send out prophets in one part of the world and completely ignore his creations in other parts? Or why would he wait so long to send one out? No other religion efectively tackles these questions.

Right, but if Islam had sent out these prophets long before Christianity, Islam would have formed before Christianity as well. They wouldn't have waited in hiding till 600 years after Christianity to show their faces.


Yes islam did form before Christianity. It was called Judaism back then (and even before that under so many different prophets with different names). And then Christianity itself. God kept sending new prophets to perfect the religion and with Prophet Mohammed PBUH the message was perfected and it was presented to the people as the Quran. In all Islam believe Allah sent something like 36,000 prophets (not sure if thats the exact number) throughout time and through different regions of the globe with Prophet Mohammed being the last one. Other Prophets in Islam include Moses and Jesus.

Thats just what muslims believe

[PoshNor]

You dont have to believe in it. Its fine if you think Islam is a sham and christianity or some other religion is not. Its your choice.

However, if you really look at it from a logical point of view does it not make sense though? Why would God only send out prophets in one part of the world and completely ignore his creations in other parts? Or why would he wait so long to send one out? No other religion efectively tackles these questions.

Right, but if Islam had sent out these prophets long before Christianity, Islam would have formed before Christianity as well. They wouldn't have waited in hiding till 600 years after Christianity to show their faces.


Yes islam did form before Christianity. It was called Judaism back then (and even before that under so many different prophets with different names). And then Christianity itself. God kept sending new prophets to perfect the religion and with Prophet Mohammed PBUH the message was perfected and it was presented to the people as the Quran. In all Islam believe Allah sent something like 36,000 prophets (not sure if thats the exact number) throughout time and through different regions of the globe with Prophet Mohammed being the last one. Other Prophets in Islam include Moses and Jesus.

Thats just what muslims believe

omG exactly what i wanted to say. i hate being so young and dumb.

[Arjuna]

You dont have to believe in it. Its fine if you think Islam is a sham and christianity or some other religion is not. Its your choice.

However, if you really look at it from a logical point of view does it not make sense though? Why would God only send out prophets in one part of the world and completely ignore his creations in other parts? Or why would he wait so long to send one out? No other religion efectively tackles these questions.

Right, but if Islam had sent out these prophets long before Christianity, Islam would have formed before Christianity as well. They wouldn't have waited in hiding till 600 years after Christianity to show their faces.


Yes islam did form before Christianity. It was called Judaism back then (and even before that under so many different prophets with different names). And then Christianity itself. God kept sending new prophets to perfect the religion and with Prophet Mohammed PBUH the message was perfected and it was presented to the people as the Quran. In all Islam believe Allah sent something like 36,000 prophets (not sure if thats the exact number) throughout time and through different regions of the globe with Prophet Mohammed being the last one. Other Prophets in Islam include Moses and Jesus.

Thats just what muslims believe

omG exactly what i wanted to say. i hate being so young and dumb.

sucks to be u

[ShivaChrist]

No need to be mean, Arjuna. Posh is a nice girl.

We just disagree with the "too simple to be true" reasoning (at least that's the way I see it).

[cutenoreen]

ahhhh what did I start.... blah...

[PoshNor]

No need to be mean, Arjuna. Posh is a nice girl.

We just disagree with the "too simple to be true" reasoning (at least that's the way I see it).

aww YAY! i'm just happy to hear that ppl believe in one God. so many kids don't, let alone believe in a god.

[ilostamothfknbet]

Arjuna.. i'm impressed :D

born Hindu.. believe mainly in Hinduism/Buddhism.. go to the gurdwara as well once in a while. mom is really religious but tells me doesn't matter what i believe in as long as i believe in something.
3-4 years ago was totally confused about my religion.. even looked at Islam a lot.. but then for reasons i will not disclose so as not to start more fights, i changed my mind, then over the summer after i did some more 'soul-searching' in another country displaced from family/friend influences, i re-found my faith.. sort of.

[angrynacho]

angry nacho.. in many great epics of hinduism there are many references to heaven as thats where god fought againts Rakshus (demons) etc sending them to hell and so .. hindusism like christianity also has its death angel come from heaven to claim a life. Yuvraj was the death angel here.

As far as I understand, Vishnu just destroyed Rakshus. There was no mentioning of sending them somewhere.

[angrynacho]

born Hindu.. believe mainly in Hinduism/Buddhism..

Same here. Even though Buddhism historically was opposed to Hinduism, there are certain aspects I dig about both. I'm mostly digging Buddhism.

I want to fucking go to Nepal/India/anywhere in South Asia. Fuck, so fucking bad.

[ilostamothfknbet]

born Hindu.. believe mainly in Hinduism/Buddhism..

Same here. Even though Buddhism historically was opposed to Hinduism, there are certain aspects I dig about both. I'm mostly digging Buddhism.

I want to fucking go to Nepal/India/anywhere in South Asia. Fuck, so fucking bad.

we should talk sometime.
yea you know.. i was really confused this summer.. like.. i'm Hindu but i believe in a lot of Buddhism too.. so i asked this pretty well respected monk (or Lama) for his opinion on my situation and he's like, that's absolutely fine (well i was in a country where most people were both Hindu & Buddhist and where many of the temples incorporated both religions which i found amazzing). he also said that like 99% of Buddhism and Hinduism coincide (i donno if that was an exaggeration) and basically it's fine that i believe in both or whatever. and i got some great books. there are a few aspects that do conflict, but i donno, i hate getting all technical when it comes to religion.
haha it's so funny how i always mention confusion with you :P
anyway.. yea.. i wanna go back.. let's go together! :D

[mr neo]

I'm Sikh. I'm still skeptic on its origins and its purpose and why it introduced itself as a new religion. (It's the youngest major religion in the world.) I'm somewhat religious, I do wear a turban and grow a beard like any traditional Sikh though I find it sometimes a hassle to do so. I guess being in a society where it isn't really known YET makes me sort of cringe because it doesn't have a very deep philosophy or history. It's mainly a combination of Hinduism/Bhuddism/Islam put together although most religions follow the same principles, some mono-, some poly- however.

I do believe in something eternal, but question it frequently.

[angrynacho]

born Hindu.. believe mainly in Hinduism/Buddhism..

Same here. Even though Buddhism historically was opposed to Hinduism, there are certain aspects I dig about both. I'm mostly digging Buddhism.

I want to fucking go to Nepal/India/anywhere in South Asia. Fuck, so fucking bad.

we should talk sometime.
yea you know.. i was really confused this summer.. like.. i'm Hindu but i believe in a lot of Buddhism too.. so i asked this pretty well respected monk (or Lama) for his opinion on my situation and he's like, that's absolutely fine (well i was in a country where most people were both Hindu & Buddhist and where many of the temples incorporated both religions which i found amazzing). he also said that like 99% of Buddhism and Hinduism coincide (i donno if that was an exaggeration) and basically it's fine that i believe in both or whatever. and i got some great books. there are a few aspects that do conflict, but i donno, i hate getting all technical when it comes to religion.
haha it's so funny how i always mention confusion with you :P
anyway.. yea.. i wanna go back.. let's go together! :D

word, we should talk sometime.

Yeah, I don't like getting technical about religion most of the time. Kind of the biggest thing I like about Buddhism is just the raw simplicitiy and logic.
And yeah, Hinduism and Buddhism in ideology are largely fine together.

Hah, since you mentioned lama, I just had to show this bit off. I talked to the Dalai Lama before. Only for 5 mins or so, but yeah, pretty cool.

CONFUSION! http://toothpastefordinner.com/right.gif

[ilostamothfknbet]

born Hindu.. believe mainly in Hinduism/Buddhism..

Same here. Even though Buddhism historically was opposed to Hinduism, there are certain aspects I dig about both. I'm mostly digging Buddhism.

I want to fucking go to Nepal/India/anywhere in South Asia. Fuck, so fucking bad.

we should talk sometime.
yea you know.. i was really confused this summer.. like.. i'm Hindu but i believe in a lot of Buddhism too.. so i asked this pretty well respected monk (or Lama) for his opinion on my situation and he's like, that's absolutely fine (well i was in a country where most people were both Hindu & Buddhist and where many of the temples incorporated both religions which i found amazzing). he also said that like 99% of Buddhism and Hinduism coincide (i donno if that was an exaggeration) and basically it's fine that i believe in both or whatever. and i got some great books. there are a few aspects that do conflict, but i donno, i hate getting all technical when it comes to religion.
haha it's so funny how i always mention confusion with you :P
anyway.. yea.. i wanna go back.. let's go together! :D

word, we should talk sometime.

Yeah, I don't like getting technical about religion most of the time. Kind of the biggest thing I like about Buddhism is just the raw simplicitiy and logic.
And yeah, Hinduism and Buddhism in ideology are largely fine together.

Hah, since you mentioned lama, I just had to show this bit off. I talked to the Dalai Lama before. Only for 5 mins or so, but yeah, pretty cool.

CONFUSION! http://toothpastefordinner.com/right.gif

you lucky mofo! where, when, how? i want to talk to him. i heard him speak in september when he came to central park~nyc. lol he is SO cute. he was really funny and of course deep and spiritual and all that. i love his books.. esp the sections on ANGER.. haha.. :)

[angrynacho]

long story short....

He came to my university to speak. One of my teachers thought I was cool enough to be hooked up for a small talk (after the speech, he had a talk with like 15 or so students).

[ilostamothfknbet]

long story short....

He came to my university to speak. One of my teachers thought I was cool enough to be hooked up for a small talk (after the speech, he had a talk with like 15 or so students).

sweet. you're sooo cool. :)

[Arjuna]

angry nacho.. in many great epics of hinduism there are many references to heaven as thats where god fought againts Rakshus (demons) etc sending them to hell and so .. hindusism like christianity also has its death angel come from heaven to claim a life. Yuvraj was the death angel here.

As far as I understand, Vishnu just destroyed Rakshus. There was no mentioning of sending them somewhere.

perhaps ur right soemtimes i mix the bible and the gita lol but yea the fact that heavens references exist in them were nevertheless true.

[Arjuna]

Arjuna.. i'm impressed :D

born Hindu.. believe mainly in Hinduism/Buddhism.. go to the gurdwara as well once in a while. mom is really religious but tells me doesn't matter what i believe in as long as i believe in something.
3-4 years ago was totally confused about my religion.. even looked at Islam a lot.. but then for reasons i will not disclose so as not to start more fights, i changed my mind, then over the summer after i did some more 'soul-searching' in another country displaced from family/friend influences, i re-found my faith.. sort of.

thats true gautam buddha was actully a hindu himself. he had changed certain ascepts of hinduism to the extent that it could no longer be called hinduism.. nevertheless we do share a LOT of similarities.

[funny]

Hi Friends

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Here is Cool Asian Radio

[Sphinx7]

You guys do realize Islam was created about 600-700 years after Christianity. Now, I am not a practicing Christian or anything, but I find it interesting how fervent you guys are about it being the one true religion. Wouldn't it have been thought up first if it was the one true religion and not 600-700 years after Christianity? Then there is Hinduism which I think is even older then that... then you got the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods... etc. etc.

Anyway.

I think I should just start my own religion... it would be simple: Find the best from each religion and mash them together.

damn u are one Character, but you wont run a scene here while eye exist on this stage...eye do REAL-EYES that Islam was after Christianity. haha.
Islam is the last message from God, thru prophet Muhammad. He is the last prophet...he is Khatamaan Nabiyeeen. Islamic concepts where b4 Christianity, if you study on Sumeria, you would know.

Eye can clearly cee you all dont know y and how Christianity came about.
im not gonna go into that. you want to discuss the time line here, according to the B.i.b.l.e. it tells that mankind is 6 to 7,000 thousand years old...if you beLIEve that then the earth is 7,000 yrs old?? come on.
Adam and Eve is 4,000 yrs old according to christianity. :?
you know they also had 3 sons... 8)

shit eye cant beLIEve you mentioned the Greek and roman gods. what do they have to do with any Religion?? :? The greek and roman legacy is a joke. they stole and copied everything b4 their time and also changed namings of texts. eye dont understand your reason here, about the Roman and Greek gods. explain urself.

peace

[angrynacho]

thats true gautam buddha was actully a hindu himself. he had changed certain ascepts of hinduism to the extent that it could no longer be called hinduism.. nevertheless we do share a LOT of similarities.

Gautama Buddha used to be a Hindu as a young man. Long story short, he grew out of it and founded some core ideas for Buddhism.

[Sphinx7]

haha ur a fool.

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re·li·gion·less adjective

proves how ignorant u are.

haha
so you go by the devils translation/meaing to justify yourself?? :?
you a stoopid motherfucker, please dont try to teach me here with this tricknowledge, dont try to impress others here as well...

sad that you beLIEve this, coming from a hindu

[Arjuna]

thats true gautam buddha was actully a hindu himself. he had changed certain ascepts of hinduism to the extent that it could no longer be called hinduism.. nevertheless we do share a LOT of similarities.

Gautama Buddha used to be a Hindu as a young man. Long story short, he grew out of it and founded some core ideas for Buddhism.

that wut i just said.

[angrynacho]

coming from a hindu

Wait, you're Hindu? or did i read that wrong?

[Sphinx7]

coming from a hindu

Wait, you're Hindu? or did i read that wrong?

na im not a hindu, but ive done the knowledge on it
in addtions to other spiritual systems

[Arjuna]

haha ur a fool.

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re·li·gion·less adjective

proves how ignorant u are.

haha
so you go by the devils translation/meaing to justify yourself?? :?
you a stoopid motherfucker, please dont try to teach me here with this tricknowledge, dont try to impress others here as well...

sad that you beLIEve this, coming from a hindu

you know wuts even sadder? the fact that ur all pro-islamic and the fact u dont respect the islamic code to respect other religions.

[Arjuna]

coming from a hindu

Wait, you're Hindu? or did i read that wrong?

na im not a hindu, but ive done the knowledge on it
in addtions to other spiritual systems

hinduism does have a god and he is the universal supreme i dunno how u can call that "spiritual"

[Sphinx7]

you know wuts even sadder? the fact that ur all pro-islamic and the fact u dont respect the islamic code to respect other religions.

i respect all religions, where am i speaking against them? if you ASSume that when im speakin on Christ, then on that note i am only checkin that religion. pullin out points and building.

hinduism does have a god and he is the universal supreme i dunno how u can call that "spiritual"

im not saying hinduism does not have a God. what eye mean is its more of a spiritual system, the practices of yoga. Hinduism follows the concepts of one God as well.

peace

[adren@line]

angry nacho.. in many great epics of hinduism there are many references to heaven as thats where god fought againts Rakshus (demons) etc sending them to hell and so .. hindusism like christianity also has its death angel come from heaven to claim a life. Yuvraj was the death angel here.

you need to keep a few things in mind:

Hindu mythology IS NOT Hindu philosophy. Too many Hindus get soo wrapped up in the mythology that they actually confuse the two.

The mythology was simply a tool used to convey the messages of Hinduism to the masses. AS a result, we now have Hindus who take the mythological stories literally.

- The philosophy of Vedic Hinduism is based completely on the Upanishads, and within this text, there is no heavan or hell.

- There are many different schools of thought in Hinduism, and yes, SOME do believe in an actual Heavan and Hell, while most do not.

[coolsitara_45]

You dont have to believe in it. Its fine if you think Islam is a sham and christianity or some other religion is not. Its your choice.

However, if you really look at it from a logical point of view does it not make sense though? Why would God only send out prophets in one part of the world and completely ignore his creations in other parts? Or why would he wait so long to send one out? No other religion efectively tackles these questions.

Right, but if Islam had sent out these prophets long before Christianity, Islam would have formed before Christianity as well. They wouldn't have waited in hiding till 600 years after Christianity to show their faces.

you got your terminologies all mixed up there. reason could be tht you don't know the basics of christianity itself (just a guess). Islam DID NOT send out prophets, it was God. Islam means submission of oneself to the will of God. the "message" of Islam is the same as other messages brought by other prophets (wasn't hiding as you put it) . as Numba explained. oh and the number of prophets sent by God are 2,24000.

Quran has never been altered, not even a single dot. Arabic language still exists. even the translations by different scholars are too very consistent with each other. the words are not exactly the same cause afterall it's a "translation". there is a sound evidence that all other holy scriptures have been altered and edited by men. it's no fault of the prophet, it was meant to happen. of course all books are supposedly "written" by men, but it was "word of God" that was supposed to be written. Kaaba too is protected by God himself, it's been around forever. this is one of the reasons why Islam stands out cause the Quran has not been altered ever. although there have been various attempts to alter the script of the Holy Quran but it's protected by the All-mighty Himself. Islam is the fastest growing and the most talked about religion in the world, not to mention is also the most hated by many people because of their own insecurities.
:edited:

[royalbengal]

i got a question sphinx...why the hell do you not type normally?

anyways..
i am a Muslim.. my ancestors converted from Hinduism i believe...

i just prayed cuz i was told to , etc.. until few yrs ago and now i am a true believer

[VegasThug]

i got a question sphinx...why the hell do you not type normally?

anyways..
i am a Muslim.. my ancestors converted from Hinduism i believe...

i just prayed cuz i was told to , etc.. until few yrs ago and now i am a true believer


good to hear that!

[VegasThug]

You dont have to believe in it. Its fine if you think Islam is a sham and christianity or some other religion is not. Its your choice.

However, if you really look at it from a logical point of view does it not make sense though? Why would God only send out prophets in one part of the world and completely ignore his creations in other parts? Or why would he wait so long to send one out? No other religion efectively tackles these questions.

Right, but if Islam had sent out these prophets long before Christianity, Islam would have formed before Christianity as well. They wouldn't have waited in hiding till 600 years after Christianity to show their faces.

you got your terminologies all mixed up there. reason could be tht you don't know the basics of christianity itself (just a guess). Islam DID NOT send out prophets, it was God. Islam means submission of oneself to the will of God. the "message" of Islam is the same as other messages brought by other prophets. as Numba explained. oh and the number of prophets sent by God are 2,24000.

Quran has never been altered, not even a single dot. Arabic language still exists. even the translations by different scholars are too very consistent with each other. the words are not exactly the same cause afterall it's a "translation". there is a sound evidence that all other holy scriptures have been altered and edited by men. it's no fault of the prophet, it was meant to happen. of course all books are supposedly "written" by men, but it was "word of God" that was supposed to be written. Kaaba too is protected by God himself, it's been around forever. this is one of the reasons why Islam stands out cause the Quran has not been altered ever. although there have been various attempts to alter the script of the Holy Quran but it's protected by the All-mighty Himself. Islam is the fastest growing and the most talked about religion in the world, not to mention is also the most hated by many people because of their own insecurities.

well said

[Sphinx7]

i got a question sphinx...why the hell do you not type normally?

anyways..
i am a Muslim.. my ancestors converted from Hinduism i believe...

i just prayed cuz i was told to , etc.. until few yrs ago and now i am a true believer

hah? what did you notice about my typing? however my typing does contain a reason, and a rhyme. but i wont display that here.

good to cee you chose the right pathway. stay on your study.

-power equality

[methodman535]

Wait... you're confusing me... you're saying that the Qur'an, which was written around the time Islam was made (600-700 years after Christianity and the Bible), was still written first? Even though its well known that Islam wasn't around till 600-700 AD?

*scratches head*

You seem to be like the typical brainwashed American, with your ignorant ways, that hates on Islam... This is why I hate you forever!

Someone is very generous with their hate. :roll:

[Hindu_Nutcase]

You dont have to believe in it. Its fine if you think Islam is a sham and christianity or some other religion is not. Its your choice.

However, if you really look at it from a logical point of view does it not make sense though? Why would God only send out prophets in one part of the world and completely ignore his creations in other parts? Or why would he wait so long to send one out? No other religion efectively tackles these questions.

Um.... well Hinduism tackles that question by believing that there are great masters (prophets if you like) in the past and will be great masters in the future, for all ages to come. There is no cut of date for a last prophet.

[ShivaChrist]

Quran has never been altered, not even a single dot.

LOL

You keep telling yourself that.

[coolsitara_45]

Quran has never been altered, not even a single dot.

LOL

You keep telling yourself that.

you know what's more laughable? it's that YOU keep telling yourself that it has. :lol: there might be a solution to your insecurities, ever considered seeing a shrink? :)

[methodman535]

I dont understand what the big deal is about the quran not being altered. Most christian clerics, possibly NO christian clergymen accept mohammad as a prophet or the quran as the word of god through gabriel in the first place so whether its been altered or not doesnt make much difference to a christian or to a jew whose religions are older than the quran. So why are you two haggling over that petty and completely insignificant detail to begin with I am curious?

[coolsitara_45]

^^
shiva felt like making this statement that's it's been altered, one just needed to correct him (happened to be me). rest is upto him. afterall nothing is hidden, he can get a copy that's 400 years old from Somalia and another copy of Quran recently published in Malaysia and he will find no difference. it's as easy as that but he chose to laugh, oh well. maybe he can help you out understand (after he has visited his recently hired shrink per my advice :D), as to why he made such a statement that doesn't even matter to him spiritually.

[adren@line]

I think Islam in general tries to hard to "fit in" to the Abrahamic category.

Muslims accept Jesus and the old/new testament, but Christians or Jews dont acccept ANYTHING that is in Islam.

Not to mention the fact that the Quran has never changed is more proof that the religion is behind the times as it has NEVER adapted to any era or demographic.

[royalbengal]

Why would God change His words you dumb fuck?

[adren@line]

its not God's word..

You cant prove it is either dumbass.

Its MOHHAMEDS word.

[royalbengal]

its not God's word..

You cant prove it is either dumbass.

Its MOHHAMEDS word.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was illiterate... everyone agrees on that...
did you even read anything in the Quran... no way would an illiterate, hell even a literate man would be able to say all those things

and why would the Quran (Gods words) change?
does that make it any valid if the Quran changes?

[methodman535]

its not God's word..

You cant prove it is either dumbass.

Its MOHHAMEDS word.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was illiterate... everyone agrees on that...
did you even read anything in the Quran... no way would an illiterate, hell even a literate man would be able to say all those things

and why would the Quran (Gods words) change?
does that make it any valid if the Quran changes?

Well first of all, wheres the proof that more than one person didnt write the quran? It doesnt exist. Wheres the proof that more than one person did compile all the verses. Thats not there either. You cant use the absense of one proof to defeat an argument.

Yeah so...if he wasnt literate he didnt write them. Theres no "proof" that a hundred poets and scholars didnt get together and write all of it either. Theres probably no evidence that they did either. Cuz they wouldnt wanna leave any evidence for such a project would they? Doh! Just like nobody would sign their name on any holy book that they claim is directly from god, not just the quran.

You guys should pay attention to the meaning of the words faith, proof and evidence before you even start arguing.

[adren@line]

it was his word in the sense that HE said those things, and perhaps written by someone else.

And yes men can say all those things.

The Vedas which are 4500x the length of the Quran (im exaggerating), were memorized word-for-word for thousands of years and finally written down.

The Upanishads, which are EXTREMELY philosophical (more-so than the Quran), were all written by men.

Some men (and women) are smart and can speak/write very, very, very well.

Same shit. Mohhamed was a smart guy who created a religion and *claimed* to have recieved revelations from an "angel".

SO I suppose you willl believe anyone with high intellect that *claims* that God talked to him in his sleep?

Hell no you wouldnt.

Oh wait, in this case you do.

You guys should pay attention to the meaning of the words faith, proof and evidence before you even start arguing.


Good point, but muslims have a tendency to pass of religious beliefs as fact.

[royalbengal]

alright but has anyone proved that the Quran was written by hundreds of scholars and scientists, etc.. like you claim.. im sure people have tried to prove it for hundreds of years now..

i have yet to see the proof of that...

its like disclaiming history...

did columbus really discover america? find the proof of that... seriously...
do you have video tapes of columbus discovering america?
but people still believe that he did and he probably did... no one has proved it otherwise.. so keep your smartass ignorant comments to yourself...

and hinduism .. im sorry but its not a religion.. its more of buncha writings telling you how to live your life with bunch of mythic characters

[coolsitara_45]

it was his word in the sense that HE said those things, and perhaps written by someone else.

And yes men can say all those things.

The Vedas which are 4500x the length of the Quran (im exaggerating), were memorized word-for-word for thousands of years and finally written down.

The Upanishads, which are EXTREMELY philosophical (more-so than the Quran), were all written by men.

Some men (and women) are smart and can speak/write very, very, very well.

Same shit. Mohhamed was a smart guy who created a religion and *claimed* to have recieved revelations from an "angel".

SO I suppose you willl believe anyone with high intellect that *claims* that God talked to him in his sleep?

Hell no you wouldnt.

Oh wait, in this case you do.

You guys should pay attention to the meaning of the words faith, proof and evidence before you even start arguing.


Good point, but muslims have a tendency to pass of religious beliefs as fact.
that's exactly what you are doing in this post. is there any proof that vedas was memorized word-for-word and written down thousands years after? (it would actually have much more chances of getting altered, but that's another issue). same argument for the rest of your post.

[coolsitara_45]

You guys should pay attention to the meaning of the words faith, proof and evidence before you even start arguing.
you expect people to begin their sentences with "it's my blind faith that Mohammad was the last messanger of God"? or that "it's only a matter of faith that i believe Quran has been proven free of any contradictions". and like royalbengal said people were smart back then too (and you must agree too), they must have questioned Quran and the whole religion. what we have as evidence is the historical facts and the gift from God called a brain :D.

[coolsitara_45]

did columbus really discover america? find the proof of that... seriously...

it was actually some chinese muslim dude. sorry i don't have a name. :D

[adren@line]

that's exactly what you are doing in this post. is there any proof that vedas was memorized word-for-word and written down thousands years after? (it would actually have much more chances of getting altered, but that's another issue). same argument for the rest of your post.

historical proof? yes there is.

Either way, I really dont give two-shits if it was or wasnt, I am not *pshyco* in my belief that the Vedas are the word of God or even memorized, nor do I *stress* the point that they were memorized like Muslims do with there beliefs and "facts".


did columbus really discover america? find the proof of that... seriously...
do you have video tapes of columbus discovering america?
but people still believe that he did and he probably did... no one has proved it otherwise.. so keep your smartass ignorant comments to yourself...

Its accepted that he wasnt the first to reach NA. The Vikings (or a similar Nordic group did). Its based on HISTORICAL FACT, its NOT some regurtitated rumor that has no original source.


and hinduism .. im sorry but its not a religion.. its more of buncha writings telling you how to live your life with bunch of mythic characters


Thats what religions do: they tell you how to live your life.

What, you think a religion is NOT supposed to tell u what to do? (that sounds funny coming from a Muslim, considering the Quran explicitly governs just about every area of life).

As far as the "mythic characters", you are talking about the mythology. THose are stories (much like the stories in the bible or the Hadiths) that are used to demonstrate the beliefs of a religion.

[methodman535]

You guys should pay attention to the meaning of the words faith, proof and evidence before you even start arguing.
you expect people to begin their sentences with "it's my blind faith that Mohammad was the last messanger of God"? or that "it's only a matter of faith that i believe Quran has been proven free of any contradictions". and like royalbengal said people were smart back then too (and you must agree too), they must have questioned Quran and the whole religion. what we have as evidence is the historical facts and the gift from God called a brain :D.

Yeah and that evidence can be used to either prove or disprove that the quran is full of contradictions. And its a persons blind faith that mostly pulls them in either direction. If a person is faithful and pigheaded enough to believe the quran is perfect and error free then no amount of proof or evidence will convince them it has even one mistake. Conversely on the other extreme if a person is pigheaded about the fact that there is some mistakes...they will not except the "proof" of the other side and just laugh it off.

99% of the people who believe the quran is perfect couldnt defend themselves in a debate without consulting others. Do they have any doubt in their minds before they run to their mullah or imam for the "right answer"? Nope...they dont. They have "blind faith".

You yourself are an example in this very forum. If you logged on and saw 10 threads here each debating a mistake in the quran, chances are you could not provide what you consider a "perfect" answer in each one of those 10 threads right off the bat. You would have to consult someone. Yeah you would FEEL that the quran was not error free but you wouldnt have an answer right off the bat! But you would still continue to BELIEVE that the quran was error free even though you dont have your own acceptable "proof" in hand. THats called blind faith.

[ShivaChrist]

Quran has never been altered, not even a single dot.

LOL

You keep telling yourself that.

you know what's more laughable? it's that YOU keep telling yourself that it has. :lol: there might be a solution to your insecurities, ever considered seeing a shrink? :)

Guy, every single thing that has been translated, updated, passed hands, has been and will continue to be altered.

We are human beings, we f*ck stuff up even when we try not to.

The Bible isn't the same bible as when it was first written, neither are any of these religions tomes. They have all been altered.

There is NO WAY that it would be the exact same unless they had put it on a computer when it was first written and then NEVER touched it since. And that doesn't even happen today, people mess with everything, even pictures today.

Unfortunately, you had to keep manuscripts in the past, and when you use manuscripts they have to be moved to newew versions, and during the movement things sometimes get changed.

With so many people handling so many copies of a certain book, things get changed.

Whether you want to accept that or not.

It's like people who are religion never feel they have to back up what they believe in because, well, they believe in it so it must be right. There's no chance it could be wrong, nope.

Why? What definitive proof do you have? NONE.

Every piece of text on this planet has been altered in one way or another. This is not labeling Islam, this is labeling everything on the planet.... like I said, we are human beings, and we change things.

[rreal]

Quran has never been altered, not even a single dot

hmmmmm .....whats the point, if you interpret your verses in thousand different ways, then the one vich meets certain characteristics accordance to situation is implied, but can be updated periodically if proven false.

[ShivaChrist]

Quran has never been altered, not even a single dot

hmmmmm .....whats the point, if you interpret your verses in thousand different ways, then the one vich meets certain characteristics accordance to situation is implied, but can be updated periodically if proven false.

That's the thing though - they feel it hasn't been altered... ever. And if something is proven false, then Allah (or the Christian God, or the Jewish one, etc) is wrong because the book is right... if it isn't, then you begin to question yourself... and people don't want to do that.

[ThreeFiddy]

Do you follow yourz because your family does or because you actually have faith in them?

I follow nothing because of my forefathers. My beliefs are my own.


Also have you ever considered following any other religion other than yourz?

Yes, and I sorta have.


Last what exactly do you believe?

Islam.

[ThreeFiddy]

Shiva - you need to learn a bit about Islam to make comments on it bro. I've seen the things you're saying and noticed that all your comments are based on conjecture. Almost all of your comments hold no water in the light of facts.

[ThreeFiddy]

Method, your claim that the Quran may have been written by many people and your challenge to prove it is written by God is the same thing as me challenging you to prove that the Quran was written by more than one person because no one claimed authorship of the Quran except for Allah. You cannot find any historical evidence to prove that Islam was written by any human - none. You think people haven't been trying? You think people back then were idiots? Don't you think they would QUESTION such things?

And you're always talking of contradictions, but you, my friend, haven't given one contradiction that isn't false when the Quran is studied properly. One who has not read the Quran properly cannot claim to have found any contradiction for themselves. Most religious scholers (of all faiths) won't even take you seriously because of your lack of knowledge of the holy scriptures. One of the laws of debates are that you should know the subject at hand and you should use proper context to prove and disprove your theories - because you do not know the Quran (in this instance) it is also not possible for you to be aware of the contexts and thus you have no ground in an objective debate because you are inherently subjective (yes, everyone is subjective to a certain degree but you get what I mean). I mean, would you argue with Stephen Hawking without reading his theories? No. Because that would be dumb.

Shiva - why don't do some research man? Find where the Quran has been changed. Saying "humans fuck up everything" is not a fact sorry. That's an opinion. Go do some research and then talk, and then engage others in a religious discussion. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's valuable time.

Why? What definitive proof do you have? NONE.

Pick up a copy of the Quran from about 1300 years ago and then go to your local store and pick up another Quran. Find the differences.

[methodman535]

Give me a break. You cant compare Steven Hawkins to a Mullah whose interpretation of the quran differs from the imam at the other side of town. There is no comparison.

And you say I am not qualified to debate? Hahah...I dont think anyone here knows the entire quran by heart and is fluent in that quraish prose dialect of 1400 years ago. I bet hardly any of the e-mullahs here even speak fluent street arabic...nobody on this board, so dont tell me Im not qualified when you arent even close. And all the e-mullahs I see on here have radically opposing interpretations.

I dont have the slightest intention of spending countless hours brushing up on religious scripts so I can become a qualified debator. And I dont take most religious scholars seriously either cuz no matter how much they memorize they are biased and their motivation and direction is to prove their faith right and their critics wrong. These scholars do not have the unprejudiced truth as their goal, they have the preservation and justification of their faith as their goal.

And you are asking me to dig up a list of people that claim they authored the quran? Get real. You cant prove the quran was authored by god either, not can anyone else. Its not provable or disprovable in the absolute, its a matter of pure faith. You cant "prove" the quran wasnt written by space aliens either. All I am doing is pointing out evidence of contradictions. You dont have to believe them but people who are IMPARTIAL and UNBIASED do believe some of the contradictions indicate it was written by humans. People who are biased always find a reason to not believe the contradictions, they say its a metaphor or not literal or interpreted one way but not another way.

[methodman535]

And why do you keep on and on about the words of the quran being unchanged? Its a book of prose, its been like that since the various verses were joined together 1400 years ago and its remained unchanged supposedly ever since then but what does that prove except for the fact that its not been amended since then? Nothing. Its not proof of the fact that it was written by god or by humans. It just means its been unaltered since the time a certain collection of verses were catalogued by hazrat usman if Im not mistaken. Why is it so important for you to convince Shiva that its unchanged for 1400 years anyway....why would he care if it wasnt?

[ThreeFiddy]

And you are asking me to dig up a list of people that claim they authored the quran? Get real. You cant prove the quran was authored by god either, not can anyone else. Its not provable or disprovable in the absolute, its a matter of pure faith. You cant "prove" the quran wasnt written by space aliens either. All I am doing is pointing out evidence of contradictions. You dont have to believe them but people who are IMPARTIAL and UNBIASED do believe some of the contradictions indicate it was written by humans. People who are biased always find a reason to not believe the contradictions, they say its a metaphor or not literal or interpreted one way but not another way.

Of course you can't prove it one way or another. It's faith. So saying it's written by God is just as much as conjecture as saying it's written by humans or aliens. There's no proof either way.

And please gimme a break with the "impartial and unbiased" view thing. Your view of it is just as biased as mine.

And also, I'm correcting shiva, I have nothing to prove to him. And accordingly, why do you keep coming on this thread then? Why do you care either way what other people believe?

[methodman535]

And you are asking me to dig up a list of people that claim they authored the quran? Get real. You cant prove the quran was authored by god either, not can anyone else. Its not provable or disprovable in the absolute, its a matter of pure faith. You cant "prove" the quran wasnt written by space aliens either. All I am doing is pointing out evidence of contradictions. You dont have to believe them but people who are IMPARTIAL and UNBIASED do believe some of the contradictions indicate it was written by humans. People who are biased always find a reason to not believe the contradictions, they say its a metaphor or not literal or interpreted one way but not another way.

Of course you can't prove it one way or another. It's faith. So saying it's written by God is just as much as conjecture as saying it's written by humans or aliens. There's no proof either way.

And please gimme a break with the "impartial and unbiased" view thing. Your view of it is just as biased as mine.

And also, I'm correcting shiva, I have nothing to prove to him. And accordingly, why do you keep coming on this thread then? Why do you care either way what other people believe?

I dont know about me being just as biased as yours, or more or less biased than you since I dont know whats in your head. Theres three underlying emotional influences here pushing various people in this very thread:

1. The desire to hunt for the truth. Curiosity. A need to look for something new to explain whats not satisfactory so you can form

2. The desire to hunt for "facts" that corraborate your own current views which you "know must be right" or you hope are right, or you want to be right. These facts can be nicely and "logically" arranged around a core set of pigheaded fundemental premises.

3. The desire to hunt down, discredit and disprove "facts" that conflict with ones own deep core premises and fundementalism. This is the desire to destroy the logic that is nicely arranged around your oponent's core fundemental premises.

Each person's arguments here are driven by the emotive force from one of the three motivations I just mentioned. You have hindus bashing and mocking muslims for obvious reasons, you have shiva jeering at the credibility of scriptures. You have me being criticezed as the bad guy cuz Im claiming humans wrote the quran. But when you think about it, I am driven way more by #1 than you or most others here are with the possible exception of shiva. Think about that before you label me as biased cuz as a matter of principle I'm trying not to be while everyone else has to admit that as a matter of principle they ARE trying to be biased! :twisted:

[ThreeFiddy]

What makes you think I'm not #1?

[methodman535]

I didnt even type it in correctly:

1. The desire to hunt for the truth. Curiosity. A need to look for something new to explain whats not satisfactory so you can form a better picture irregardless of where it leads your core fundementals as a result of what you uncover.


Yeah you could be #1 but the way I look at it everyone wants to be seen as a #1 but 95% are 2 or 3. I think realistically we are motivated by all three of these in this thread, myself included so I would rephrase and say 95% are overwhelmingly motivated by #2 and #3 to such a point that their #1 might as well not even exist. Such are the people who learn, accept and dont dare question. I just think I have a bigger #1 in proportion to 2 and 3. Maybe you do too but my 2 and 3 barely motivate me compared to my #1.

The thing is since you are a theist as well as(now) a 100% firm and faithful believer in the scriptures too....the #1 in you is flickering when it comes to more radical, heretic and blasphemous ideas. My #1 doesnt flicker cuz I dont have that constraint in my subconscious.

[ThreeFiddy]

Nice observations.

1. The desire to hunt for the truth. Curiosity. A need to look for something new to explain whats not satisfactory so you can form a better picture irregardless of where it leads your core fundementals as a result of what you uncover.

I'm not 100% firm in ANYTHING. Wait no that is a lie. The things I'm firm on:

1. I exist
2. God exists (this is personal, ie faith)

I am not a 100% muslim yet because I have not done sufficient research on the Quran to see if I agree with every little thing. That takes a long time. However, from my readings, it is contradiction free and that is what I'm saying here. Perhaps I should include "everything I say is only true to the extent of my knowledge" in my posts.

[DaDesiPLaYa]

You guys do realize Islam was created about 600-700 years after Christianity. Now, I am not a practicing Christian or anything, but I find it interesting how fervent you guys are about it being the one true religion. Wouldn't it have been thought up first if it was the one true religion and not 600-700 years after Christianity? Then there is Hinduism which I think is even older then that... then you got the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods... etc. etc.

Anyway.

I think I should just start my own religion... it would be simple: Find the best from each religion and mash them together.


hahah i'm not sure if ur right or not cuz i havent' acutally looked it up . . or knwo enough . .
but since we do think itz the one true relgion
and u say it should've been created first . . .
hey it was created later so it wouldn't have any flawz like tha rest ya dig
aight ~1~

[paulie walnuts]

You guys do realize Islam was created about 600-700 years after Christianity. Now, I am not a practicing Christian or anything, but I find it interesting how fervent you guys are about it being the one true religion. Wouldn't it have been thought up first if it was the one true religion and not 600-700 years after Christianity? Then there is Hinduism which I think is even older then that... then you got the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods... etc. etc.

Anyway.

I think I should just start my own religion... it would be simple: Find the best from each religion and mash them together.


hahah i'm not sure if ur right or not cuz i havent' acutally looked it up . . or knwo enough . .
but since we do think itz the one true relgion
and u say it should've been created first . . .
hey it was created later so it wouldn't have any flawz like tha rest ya dig
aight ~1~

great logic. my friend and I created this religion last week. it's the newest, and has corrected all the flaws of previous religions, including Islam. you guys can PM to convert.

[ThreeFiddy]

great logic. my friend and I created this religion last week. it's the newest, and has corrected all the flaws of previous religions, including Islam. you guys can PM to convert.

OOH OOH CAN I JOIN CAN I CAN I?????

[methodman535]

Nice observations.

1. The desire to hunt for the truth. Curiosity. A need to look for something new to explain whats not satisfactory so you can form a better picture irregardless of where it leads your core fundementals as a result of what you uncover.

I'm not 100% firm in ANYTHING. Wait no that is a lie. The things I'm firm on:

1. I exist
2. God exists (this is personal, ie faith)

Yes it is faith. And it is a premise as well since you cannot define or describe god in his entirety. What you can concieve of him is but a miniscule pinprick of his vastnessm, extrapolated from your own admittedly limited definition of god. Consequently you believe in something you cannot define, describe, prove or disprove.

Interesting how god is to become one of your few core concepts and premises to build the rest of your "logic" around. :lol:

[ThreeFiddy]

Yes it is faith. And it is a premise as well since you cannot define or describe god in his entirety. What you can concieve of him is but a miniscule pinprick of his vastnessm, extrapolated from your own admittedly limited definition of god. Consequently you believe in something you cannot define, describe, prove or disprove.

Just because you can't define something in its entirety doesn't negate the object's existence. God is the creator, and that is what I am concerned with. I'm not concerned with his each and every attribute. This is common sense, why are you talking about this?

As far as proving or disproving God goes - neither side has done either so that's another pointless issue.


Interesting how god is to become one of your few core concepts and premises to build the rest of your "logic" around. :lol:


We both operate on faith, just different kinds of it. As long as we're speaking metaphysically and phillosophically, the core concepts of logic assumes that reality exists - it is the faith of logicians and scientists such that this conceived reality is "real". It is the foundation that everything is built upon. However, it is NOT a certainty, it's just taken for granted. The only certainty is the fact that I exist, nothing else. So yes, I am operating on faith, but so are you. Welcome to the "logic" you operate on.

You think just because someone believes in a God they can't be objective. Well, you're wrong. Believing in a God can be simply admitting that there's a creator. Belief in god is also a very personal affair. I can't, nor do I want to, tell you why I believe in God, but I know that God exists. Just like you know that God doesn't exist. Good for you. But please don't come in and tell me you're more objective and are better at logical reasoning than me because you dont have "faith". That, my friend, is bullshit.

[Ragga_NZ]

Do you follow yourz because your family does or because you actually have faith in them?

Also have you ever considered following any other religion other than yourz?

Last what exactly do you believe?

I follow...mine cos i have faith, wait or don't have faith..hehe...don't believe in god...i'm a science student! (n i kno some do but i don't)

At times i sorta have looked at the good sense of community that religious peops normally have...n sorta wanted that but can't get myself to falsify my beliefs. What can ya do?

:lol:

[Da Wise One]

i was raised being a hindu so im never gonna convert ...altho i believe that theres only one godlol. Are you sure you're Hindu?

[Da Wise One]

I am a born Muslim. I wish I converted to Islam though.

[royalbengal]

I am a born Muslim. I wish I converted to Islam though.

why? dont you want your parents to be Muslim?

[tru2dalimit]

Like somebody said before Hinduism can be classified as either a religion or a way of life/philosophy, its soo hard to categorize it. And yes the Vedas and the Upanishads were passed down orally since the oral tradition of South Asia is about 3500 yrs old, whereas as the written tradition is only 2500 yrs old. Like any text we can not totally determine how authentic it is, but it is our faith in that text that leads us to believe that it is authentic and it has not been altered by human beings.

Why does it matter so much which religion came first? Religion is a way for human beings to reach God, although in some sense we shouldn't just see religion as a vehicle that will take us to God, but rather we should understand our religion and find the means by which it takes us.

No religion is perfect. Once mankind touched religion we probably corrupted it, like we do with everything. If we really want to appreciate our religion and have total faith in our religion, look at everything without being baised.

Hinduism does not have a heaven or hell in the traditional sense of those 2 words. We only have one god, and that god is manifested in many forms to show gods qualities. The one god is eternal, no beginning or end, and without limit, so our minds can't understand that god. What we do understand is the manifestations of Gods qualities. We do not really believe in idol worship, it was created so that our minds will have something to concentrate on.

Buddhism was created as an answer to the short comings of Hinduism. Buddha was born as a Hindu, and when he stepped out of his sheltered life as a prince, he saw pain and suffering. He followed a saint but the saint couldn't answer all his questions, and one day he understood everything by just looking at life and understanding life. Buddhism doesn't discriminate against anything or anyone. No caste, no God, no Heaven, no Hell. Hinduism at this time was getting corrupted by Brahmin people that felt they can control the way ppl lived by asserting their role in society, and after the emergence of Buddhism, Hinduism started changing.

Quick note on Hinduism, there is no conversion. Like somebody else said, u can be christian, muslim, jewish, or anything and still be hindu. How does that work? its is more about being true to urself, and being willing to open ur mind. God will never hate u for ur choice, God can only love. I can't explain this very well, but in the Bhagvad Gita, Krishna talks about the 3 ways to approach God, and these approaches are Universal. Take a look if any of u have a chance.

Ha lol i already wrote too much, but one last thing, There is Only One God, We Just See God in Different Forms. peace.

[Da Wise One]

I am a born Muslim. I wish I converted to Islam though.

why? dont you want your parents to be Muslim?Then I wish they converted to Islam too.