Relgion, drinking, arranged marriages.

[himynamesmo]

I think the matter is pretty simple. As long as you are a Muslim, whether you are a girl or a guy, doesn't matter which gender you are from, You are forbidden from drinking. I don't think any Muslim would disagree with me. 100 % sure about that. So for Muslims Islam is not only a religion it is a culture and a way of life. Most muslims consider that first and foremost where ever they go. So Muslims are the most least susceptible to be affected by a new culture (presumably dominant) and start following all the norms of the new culture. They will have their cultural and religious restraints that will stop them from doing such. Anyhow, still Muslim guys and girls do drink in USA but then you can't say they are good Muslims.. Ciao Peace

Thats where Islam gets all messed up. When they combine culture and relgion. Culture and reglion are two totally differen't things. For example, the arranged marriage. Where is the quran does it say that you must have an arranged marriage. Our culture (which is very gay) instills the fact that it is mandiotry because of our religon that we must get an arranged marriage. Now here's something that contradicts the whole thing. Look back in history. The prophet Muhammed (SAW) did not have an arranged marriage, infact he had a love marraige. He got to chose the women he married. Hazrat Qadegia (sp?). That is what boggles my mind. How the king of prophets got to marry someone who he wanted but we as the followers of Prophet Muhammed (SAW) still have to have arragened marriages, because its "part of our religion". WRONG, part of our CULTURE. Now one argument that can go agasnt this is that when the PM (saw) got married, there was so Islam, he wrote the quran through revletaion of god later in life. But does this really change anything? Aren't we as the followers of PM (SAW) suppose to try and be like him? He was the perfect human, he had achieved everything in life that one could hope for. His life was perfect, and we as muslims are suppose to follow his way of life as best as possible. Now this is obviously impossible, were not prophets and we make mistakes. But the arranged marriage is one thing that doesn't fall into the mistakes category.

[ilikecheese]

that reminds me of something i heard, a kid from the msa from poly said there was something writen where were parents couldn't disown u or anything bad like that cuz of who u choose to marry as long as she's muslim or converts. but drinking is against islam. its haram and i dont think u can go to heaven for that, something about the places where the alcohol touches will burn in hell for a very long time. and this doesn't apply to the alchol from colonges or rubbing alchol.

[Gunslinger]

Mo so I am confused. Are you agreeing there, or disagreeing with my comment about drinking? and If you wanted the Topic to be titled Gunslinger instead of the true context of the discussion ? :) clear it up bro whats up :) Ciao Peace

[PreciousPari]

hmmm this is a rather confusing topic cuz i have heard many myths and stories behind Islam and its drinking or what not, so i really dont know what to say cuz i know very lil abt Islam as i am a Sikh :) but nonetheless every culture and religion has its own beliefs of which the abide by and im sure of the many relgions on this planet, most of them say drinking is haram :? if im wrong then plz do inform me but thats the way i see it. :?:

[himynamesmo]

Mo so I am confused. Are you agreeing there, or disagreeing with my comment about drinking? and If you wanted the Topic to be titled Gunslinger instead of the true context of the discussion ? :) clear it up bro whats up :) Ciao Peace

nah man this is a whole new topic, i agree with the drinkin part. Im discussing the point that u made withiin ur post, how culture is relgion. Thats what i dont agree with

[himynamesmo]

o and btw thanks for editing my topic, the one that i named, myself, cause i wanted it like that, and didn't want it changed.

[Gunslinger]

OH sorry I didn't think you would mind. I'll change it back.

[himynamesmo]

OH sorry I didn't think you would mind. I'll change it back.

lol im jokin bro, its cool.

anyways, what u think? give me some feed back.

[Gunslinger]

lol well honestly I don't want to argue but I will just say that I was taught Islam is not only a religion, it's a way of life. It has many things that other realigions don't. The prophet also set up a political system in Islam. Islam goes that far. So I don't think we can be totally living on western culture like dating, drinking, sex before marriage, etc etc.. and at the same time calling ourselves good Muslims. I really think a good Muslim is restricted by his religion, he is more susceptible to ignore a culture that proves disrespectful to Islam. so I was talking in that context. Ciao Peace AND BTW there are good Muslims that are living in America without being influenced by the Western Culture. and you would be amazed if you looked deeper. They are the new converts. They were american citizens that turned Muslims and now they live by shunning drinking sex and other parts of the western culture MORE than the Muslims that came to USA and got influenced by the new culture. I saw a documentary on the life of Prophet Muhammad (saw) that showed this throughout the movie. They showed people who once never knew anything about Islam. When they came to know about it , it changed their "WAY OF LIFE", So Islam does influence your life. And how you live is your culture. I think you got my point of view there. Ciao Peace bruv

[himynamesmo]

Ok but my main focus was on the arranged marriage issue. Why do we incorportate culutral ideas into the quran and making them part of our religion? Seriously it makes me mad as hell when people do this. Theres a huge line between culture and relgion.

[ilikecheese]

i dont know. i guess it depends from when ur small. most likely ur parents had arranged marriages and they wanna pass it on. my parents talk about that sometimes, but i can't see myself doing that sometimes, but hey if they can find me the perfect girl, props to them ^_^ but i wont marry her off the bat. but there are people living in america that were born here, but are still being arranged married. i had to go fix this pharmacists computer and i saw a pic of his kids and started talkign and he was telling me how his oldest daugher got arranged married here, and he's planning on his younger daughter who is gonna turn 18 or 19 soon.

[sameer]

whats wrong with a muslim adopting parts of western culture? maybe it goes against the religion, but noone is perfect, and someone can be a good person, in fact a great person whether he drinks or not.

[piya]

himynamesmo:
Theres a huge line between culture and relgion.

i dont agree, i belive that relgion and culture coexist in the world....but i also agree that if u dotn follow ur relgion to the finest detail doesnt make u a bad person.....u see i practice sikhism, but it doesnt mean that i agree or follow all aspects of its beliefs but the parts that i do follow have impacted on my cultural upbringing

[ilikecheese]

whats wrong with a muslim adopting parts of western culture? maybe it goes against the religion, but noone is perfect, and someone can be a good person, in fact a great person whether he drinks or not. i think we were talking about a good person religious-wise

[fattygirl]

about da arranged marriage thing...it;s still considered BAD in pak to have a lov marriage! now that is SO mest up and totally narrow minded thinking rite there
well talk bout big cities like khi, and lahore,now people are developing a better mind and leting their kids choose their mates but wat bout those lil cities and Villages? gosh! girlz still get married at 12 wid 30 yrs old MEN!!! ma servant (massi ) in pak got married when she was 12...and daz jus sadddddddd...i kno that is a whole 'notha topic about uneducated people !
but oh well....
SOMEone gotta teach dese people wat da rite thing is!

[ilikecheese]

they do that to give them a "better" life. and it seems weird to us, but thats us, for them its perfectly natural. in america, well mostly americans like to get married around their mid or late 20s or early 30s after they graduate from college and have something stable, but thats not.

[Pardesi_bhai]

A lot of comments said bout Islam here, well all I gotta say is.. and this is a personal opinion, no offense to anybody.......Islam is perfect! Islam is a way of life. I understand you guys saying that it's different in the western world and you gotta make changes or adapt to the changes, but then right there youre tweaking the religion and its not what its suppoed to be, understand what im sayin! I mean minor changes are fine, like lower your gazes when int he public, but if you really started to do that, all i can say is, hope you don't get run over by a car or somethin! So changes like those are fine, afain, this is a personal opinon!

[iamadesifob]

In this forum we have lot of liberal muslims...in my honest opinion i just think it comes down to the way you are raised by your parents...

and i have to agree with pardesi..."islam is the way of life"..it not a lifestyle

and for himynamesmo calling your own culture gay is very "gay upon yourself"

[himynamesmo]

In this forum we have lot of liberal muslims...in my honest opinion i just think it comes down to the way you are raised by your parents...

and i have to agree with pardesi..."islam is the way of life"..it not a lifestyle

and for himynamesmo calling your own culture gay is very "gay upon yourself"

i dont mean the whole culture, i love my culture its hot as hell, i was calling the arranged marriage part gay.

[Gunslinger]

Well I was talking about drinking. Well yeah absolutely nothing is wrong with adopting the western culture but put on the Muslim cap, think about it and then some things about it like drinking become wrong since it's not allowed in Islam. And about the arranged marriage thingy, I agree, arranged marriages shouldn't be forced. Ciao Peace

[fattygirl]

agreeing wid FOB, it's da way out parents raise us....
ma dad, da science wiz and ma mom da religious one in ma family....kinda good cuz i get to chek out both sides, science side and da religious one too...sicne daz was Hazoor(PBUH) said that dun get connected wid one kind of world...like being eithher being JUST religous and not goin along wid science....

[dj XeNo]

The prophet Muhammed (SAW) did not have an arranged marriage, infact he had a love marraige. He got to chose the women he married. Hazrat Qadegia (sp?). .

What are you talkign about? Hazrat Khadija proposed to him after witnessing his honesty as he was an employee in her caravan. You need to read up. This was not a love marriage.

but it wasn't an arranged marriage either. Obviously if she saw him work for him and she saw his honesty she had to have developed feelings for him if she proposed to him.

8)

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

im so gunna reply to this but just so not right now.... peace

[pnp366]

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) married khadija before he was a muslim....second the rest of his marriges were semi arranged...ie brought to him by the parents of the girl....

[dj XeNo]

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) married khadija before he was a muslim....second the rest of his marriges were semi arranged...ie brought to him by the parents of the girl....

how is that so since Khadijah was the first person to convert to Islam ?

8)

[pnp366]

but they were married before islam was there....so love marriges were still ok....

[illomatic]

but they were married before islam was there....so love marriges were still ok....

love marriages are still OK

as long as you get to the "love" marriage part in a halal sort of way

such as... you knew some girl since u were little, grew up at the same school
you like her personality etc, that's Halal

not saying ur gonna go to hell if you two used to date (without sex)
but that's considered haram.

Remember, Allah won't change punishments because of the new culture

Like... wut im saying is... just cuz everyone now is drinking/fucking... dont mean he's going to lessen the polarity of the punishment... so dont even say
"everyone's going it i might as well join"

Yah... it IS fucked up that culture is infused with our religion, when it shouldn't be
but it somewhat goes with it
so it's hard for some people to distinct the two...

[dj XeNo]

but they were married before islam was there....so love marriges were still ok....

so you think "love marriages" are wrong...

it boggles my mind.......what other kind of marriage can you have.....I know in our culture u see the girl and you meet her and blah blah blah you start to fall in love with her AFTER you get married to her.

Which is fine i guess but don't knock the love marriages.

Love is not haraam so a love marriage isn't either. I agree with illomatic as long as you don't fuck and you just talk to a girl and you like her there's no harm in that at all.

8)

[reaz]

this is a touchy issue.. i am by no means religious.. but my way of life has been influenced by religion and culture.. (though there is little difference)

love marriages are halal, kosher etc as long as you arent having pre marital sex which is haram i believe.. but if you think about it.. women should be covered.. and if that is the case dating is somewhat out of the question isnt it? cause you dont get to see the girl.. all you get to do is talk to the girl.. you really get to know her.. but you dont get to see her..

some of you have raised good questions and posed some good opinions such as the fact that Allah will not change punishments because of new cultures.. also the fact that there should be a difference between religion and culture..

well having studied cultural anthropology this semester i am beginning to think that culture is a bit pot.. and religion is an ingredient to what's cooking in that pot.. there are other stuff there like kinship, language etc.. but if you look at the big picture religion is a part of the culture.. so there can not be a line between the 2.. religion will always be a part of culture..

arranged marriage.. is that when the parents choose the bride/groom and force you to marry her/him? or is it the one where the parents choose the bride/groom and give you the option to marry her/him? ppl often mistake between the 2.. you might want to think about that..

love marriage.. is that when you see the guy/girl and think he's/she's the one you want to sleep with.. and in the course of time you do.. and then you decide to get married.. ? or is that when you see the guy/girl and get to know them and then get married without asking your parents? or perhaps you do ask your parents.. ??

there are soo many variations and twists.. Islam has an answer for all of them actually but enculturation defines what choice we make.. not religion.. religion provides options.. but the way we are brought up is what determines which choice we make..

i hope this message was clear.. please do provide feedback.. :)

[pnp366]

OK

i am not saying love marriges are bad....in any sense.


i personally think that love happens if you want it to or not.
but i don't think the muslims should date/have bf/gf...if you like a girl or guy who is ur friend...tell your parents to arrange it.

My parents were married like that...they were both firends in college and then my dad asked my mom if she is ok if he sent over a rishtaa.

YOu have to have some feelings or its not a marrige

[BinDaaS_BaBe]

this is a touchy issue.. i am by no means religious.. but my way of life has been influenced by religion and culture.. (though there is little difference)

love marriages are halal, kosher etc as long as you arent having pre marital sex which is haram i believe.. but if you think about it.. women should be covered.. and if that is the case dating is somewhat out of the question isnt it? cause you dont get to see the girl.. all you get to do is talk to the girl.. you really get to know her.. but you dont get to see her..

some of you have raised good questions and posed some good opinions such as the fact that Allah will not change punishments because of new cultures.. also the fact that there should be a difference between religion and culture..

well having studied cultural anthropology this semester i am beginning to think that culture is a bit pot.. and religion is an ingredient to what's cooking in that pot.. there are other stuff there like kinship, language etc.. but if you look at the big picture religion is a part of the culture.. so there can not be a line between the 2.. religion will always be a part of culture..

arranged marriage.. is that when the parents choose the bride/groom and force you to marry her/him? or is it the one where the parents choose the bride/groom and give you the option to marry her/him? ppl often mistake between the 2.. you might want to think about that..

love marriage.. is that when you see the guy/girl and think he's/she's the one you want to sleep with.. and in the course of time you do.. and then you decide to get married.. ? or is that when you see the guy/girl and get to know them and then get married without asking your parents? or perhaps you do ask your parents.. ??

there are soo many variations and twists.. Islam has an answer for all of them actually but enculturation defines what choice we make.. not religion.. religion provides options.. but the way we are brought up is what determines which choice we make..

i hope this message was clear.. please do provide feedback.. :)


whoaa i didnt read most of that.. but that was soo long.. are u gonna be like sweet lil hunnie with LONG msgs!>??

[reaz]

whoaa i didnt read most of that.. but that was soo long.. are u gonna be like sweet lil hunnie with LONG msgs!>??

perhaps.

[samosa321]

I really think a good Muslim is restricted by his religion, he is more susceptible to ignore a culture that proves disrespectful to Islam.

Exactly. If the social norms and the religious guidelines contradict each other, a Muslim is bound to remain faithful to the principles laid down by Islam and not cave to societal pressure.

And in Islam, marriage is not supposed to be forced. In one of the hadiths, it mentions how one needs the girl's permission before giving her into marriage.

[himynamesmo]

my thread owns.

[Gunslinger]

In one of the hadiths, it mentions how one needs the girl's permission before giving her into marriage.

that's true

Quoted from Hadees :-
Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as having said: "A woman without a husband (or divorced or a widow) must not be married until she is consulted, and a virgin must not be married until her permission is sought. They asked the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him): How her (virgin's) consent can be solicited? He (the Holy Prophet) said: That she keeps silence. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3303)"

and in the Quran :-
Allah Almighty said in the Noble Quran: "O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

[maria24]

I really think a good Muslim is restricted by his religion, he is more susceptible to ignore a culture that proves disrespectful to Islam.

Exactly. If the social norms and the religious guidelines contradict each other, a Muslim is bound to remain faithful to the principles laid down by Islam and not cave to societal pressure.

And in Islam, marriage is not supposed to be froced. In one of the hadiths, it mentions how one needs the girl's permission before giving her into marriage.

In the Quran, it is written that no girl can be forced to marry against her will. The girl must be okay with the marriage, and Islam forbids any arrangments against her will.

People usually get the wrong impression of 'arranged marriages', because so many people have made it into something its not. In that sense, culture has blurred the line between what is Islamic and what is not.

[Gunslinger]

In one of the hadiths, it mentions how one needs the girl's permission before giving her into marriage.

that's true

Quoted from Hadees :-
Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as having said: "A woman without a husband (or divorced or a widow) must not be married until she is consulted, and a virgin must not be married until her permission is sought. They asked the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him): How her (virgin's) consent can be solicited? He (the Holy Prophet) said: That she keeps silence. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3303)"

and in the Quran :-
Allah Almighty said in the Noble Quran: "O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

[ignitedfury86]

Ok this comes back to the drinkin.
"Thats where Islam gets all messed up. When they combine culture and relgion. Culture and reglion are two totally differen't things" - MO

Obviously you have not heard, or comprehended the phrase "Islam is not just a religion, its a complete way of life"
There is a reason by religion that we are not supposed to drink. In Islam, it indicates that when you become intoxicated, you lose your inhabilities, and you are being drawn from your focus of prayer, focus on Allah, and good deeds. That is why we dont drink, because it leads us astray from what we need to do as muslims. That has nothing to do with what culture is surrounding you, what the new generation does, or anything, religion is religion, and it doenst make exceptions as to where you are culturally or regionally, it still pertains nonetheless.
For muslims, drinking should be an established fact as a "dont-do-thang"
I hate it when muslims these days say "oh, well look at the culture around us, we are in America, everyone drinks..."

its a different thing if your not religious, but its clearly stated what Islams view is on drinking. You should know by now that Islam emcompasses an outlook on everything you should and shouldnt do. you shouldnt look at culture and religion as being two differnet things. Religion always overrides what the present culture is in your neck of the woods

[Vision350z]

Ok but my main focus was on the arranged marriage issue. Why do we incorportate culutral ideas into the quran and making them part of our religion? Seriously it makes me mad as hell when people do this. Theres a huge line between culture and relgion.
sup mo? haven't seen or talked to you in ages? what's goin on bro?

about your discussion, i totally agree wit u man. i've been sayin that SAME exact shit for so long. and then when you try and prove it to your parents that they're wrong by finding it in the Qur'an, they'll STILL have the odacity to ignore it. now my parents are incredibly open-minded and are ready to accept that some of the beliefs they grew up with could be wrong just as long as they are proved wrong. but shit like arranged marriages is such bs. it's even stated in the Qur'an that if a man and woman love each other, then you're SUPPOSED to get them married. but people, not just Muslims, pick out whatever they feel comfortable with in their religion and choose to follow those, ignoring many other parts in their religion that may contradict them.

[mr$ lloyd bank$]

Thats where Islam gets all messed up. When they combine culture and relgion. Culture and reglion are two totally differen't things. For example, the arranged marriage. Where is the quran does it say that you must have an arranged marriage. Our culture (which is very gay) instills the fact that it is mandiotry because of our religon that we must get an arranged marriage. Now here's something that contradicts the whole thing. Look back in history. The prophet Muhammed (SAW) did not have an arranged marriage, infact he had a love marraige. He got to chose the women he married. Hazrat Qadegia (sp?). That is what boggles my mind. How the king of prophets got to marry someone who he wanted but we as the followers of Prophet Muhammed (SAW) still have to have arragened marriages, because its "part of our religion". WRONG, part of our CULTURE. Now one argument that can go agasnt this is that when the PM (saw) got married, there was so Islam, he wrote the quran through revletaion of god later in life. But does this really change anything? Aren't we as the followers of PM (SAW) suppose to try and be like him? He was the perfect human, he had achieved everything in life that one could hope for. His life was perfect, and we as muslims are suppose to follow his way of life as best as possible. Now this is obviously impossible, were not prophets and we make mistakes. But the arranged marriage is one thing that doesn't fall into the mistakes category.

I Totally Agree!!! I Really Hate When Ppl Say" Well Dats a Part Of Ma Religion", When Its NOT!!!!!! Muslims Shouldnt Follow Their Culture But Only Their Religion!!!!!!

[reaz]

I Totally Agree!!! I Really Hate When Ppl Say" Well Dats a Part Of Ma Religion", When Its NOT!!!!!! Muslims Shouldnt Follow Their Culture But Only Their Religion!!!!!!

ahhh.. here is the problem though.. a lot of Islam that we know about these days is "Arab culture". This is normal since our prophet (pbuh) was sent to the Arabs. Does that mean the whole world have to become Arab or that all muslims have to adopt arabic cultural values?

[desi_shawrty]

I agree thats true and i always thought that the cutlre is mre hard then the religion like the diffrence between the girl and guy islam says they all even but a guy in our cultre gets to do alot more

[SholaShabnam]

you seem to be so knowledgeable about the holy Prophet Muhammad SAW's love life but you do not know how to spell Hazrat Khadija's name? and when someone gets to choose who they want to marry it is not called a "love marraige". i can choose to marry you, but i don't know you, so how can it be a love marriage? for it to be a love marriage you have to kind of love the person, or get to kno them by datin and other means which ARE forbidden by islam. the holy prophet SAW's marriage to Hazrat Khadija wasn't an arranged marriage, obviously because Hazrat Khadija knew the Holy Prophet (SAW) and wanted to marry him. i agree with you 100% about arranged marriages being a part of desi culture and not necessarily Islam, and i agree 200% on the part about drinking, but i don't see how you are calling the Holy Prophet SAW's marraige(s) a "love marriage".