Vedic Science

[gagan512]

i've always been intrigued by the power of the vedas. im not religious, but i love the agnostic approach of the vedas, iF U remove the whole religious aspect frm it. i knw hindusim as a religion is based off that, but in recent times, its kinda lost that essence.
of all the religions i've been exposed to, i was interested in hinduism because it had the scientific backing of the vedas.
i was wondering if someone here knows a lot abt tHE vedas, but not from a religious point of view. care to educate me anyone ?

i've read stuff abt vedic math, theories of evolution, pythogrean theorems in vedas, vedanta meta physics etc... and am very keen to know more.

[Hindu_Nutcase]

I don't know much...but you may want to read up on stuff by this dude. He's a professor at Louisiana, and has written several books on Vedic sciences. Plus he's main stream - not looked upon as a crank. I'm looking to read some of his books when I finish my current batch.

Subhash Kak
Subhash Kak (born March 26, 1947, Srinagar, Kashmir) is poet, historian of science, and scientist. He has made fundamental contributions to information theory and quantum physics as well as to history of science and Indian studies.
His work on Indian science has transformed the understanding of the nature of Indian civilization and he is one of the prominent figures of the contemporary Indian renaissance.

Information and Quantum Theory
Kak's scientific research is in information theory, artificial intelligence including neural networks, and quantum theory. He is the inventor of a novel protocol for quantum teleportation and on quantum cosmological model of the universe.

Due to the subject-object dichotomy that undergirds science, Kak believes that it can only deal with objects and not with the perceiving subject. Therefore, he thinks it will be impossible to create a formal science of consciousness. Nevertheless, the use of quantum mechanics may provide insights into the nature of mind. He sees brain as a classical machine that is able to reduce the infinite possibilities of a quantum-like universal consciousness. The mind can only think sequentially while reality is simultaneous across countless dimensions. He has argued that such a reduction from a universal consciousness may explain the amazing feats of savants.

His scientific philosophy indicates that a complete science based on the reductionist approach is impossible and thus the scientific enterprise is one without end.


Indic Studies
Kak discovered an astronomy in the altar construction connected with Vedic ritual and showed how these numbers are reflected in the very organization of the Rigveda. This work has opened the way to a proper appreciation of the sciences of ancient India, especially that of Vedic culture. In particular, he has presented new interpretations of Vedic ritual such as the Ashvamedha sacrifice.
The demonstration of an early Indian astronomy means that the astronomical references in the Vedic books cannot be ignored. These references indicate events that go back to the 3rd or the 4th millennium BC. Such early dates mean that the theories of the large-scale movements of the Indo-European people in the 2nd millennium BC are wrong.

Kak has stressed that a consistent cosmology underlies the Vedic view. In this cosmology the central notion is that of connections between the outer (physical) and the inner (subjective) worlds. This cosmology is the common theme running through spirituality, dance, music, temple architecture, and sculpture. The most striking example of these connections is the number 108. In the outer world, it is approximately the distance in terms of their diameters that the sun and the moon are away from the earth. Furthermore, the diameter of the sun is also about 108 times the diameter of the earth. The Natya Shastra, the 400 BC text on Indian arts by Bharata Muni describes 108 dances poses; the Indian rosary has 108 beads; and in Hindu worship one is enjoined to repeat the deitiy's name 108 times.

According to the Vedic cosmology, the gods of the hymns are cognitive centers, or the centers of the inner space of the mind. The Vedic system is a cryptic description of a science of consciousness.

He has shown that the Brahmi script of early classical India is derived from the Indus (or Sarasvati) script of the third millennium BC.


Bibliography
Patanjali and Cognitive Science (1987)
India at Century's End (1994)
In Search of the Cradle of Civilization (1995, 2001)
The Astronomical Code of the Rgveda (2000)
Computing Science in Ancient India (2001)
The Wishing Tree: The Presence and Promise of India (2001)
The Gods Within (2002)
The Asvamedha (2002)

The Nature of Physical Reality (1986)
The Architecture of Knowledge (2003)

The Conductor of the Dead (1974)
The London Bridge (1977)
The Secrets of Ishbar (1996)
Ek Taal, Ek Darpan (1999)

External Links
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/nov/18inter.htm : An Interview on rediff.com
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/india/debate.html : Interview on PBS

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/105/story_10594_1.html : Beliefnet Interview

http://sulekha.com/columninfo.asp?cid=58598 : Essays on Sulekha

[methodman535]

Do hindus claim that the vedic scriptures are divine, like the quran, or is it generally accepted that they are man made today by the vast majority of hindus?

[paulie walnuts]

Do hindus claim that the vedic scriptures are divine, like the quran, or is it generally accepted that they are man made today by the vast majority of hindus?

lol, this is definitely NOT our belief and it is not "accepted" by even a minority of hindus. there is no timestamp on the Vedas, it is believed that the Vedas have no date of "creation" and is an eternal emanation of the lord.

[methodman535]

Do hindus claim that the vedic scriptures are divine, like the quran, or is it generally accepted that they are man made today by the vast majority of hindus?

lol, this is definitely NOT our belief and it is not "accepted" by even a minority of hindus. there is no timestamp on the Vedas, it is believed that the Vedas have no date of "creation" and is an eternal emanation of the lord.

:shock:

[angrynacho]

method: nice sig

[Hindu_Nutcase]

generally Hindus believe that the sages discovered timeless truths about the universe through their intense meditations. Not the same as God deciding to reveal the truth to a certain individual.

However the Vedas have a secular component of down to earth info about human life and ceremonies ect. Therefore obviously I think these components are "man-made", (albeit by humans with expaned consciousness), because i (or other Hindus) don't believe Vedic ceremonies are God given to the expense of ceremonies of other cultures.

[gagan512]

generally Hindus believe that the sages discovered timeless truths about the universe through their intense meditations. Not the same as God deciding to reveal the truth to a certain individual.

However the Vedas have a secular component of down to earth info about human life and ceremonies ect. Therefore obviously I think these components are "man-made", (albeit by humans with expaned consciousness), because i (or other Hindus) don't believe Vedic ceremonies are God given to the expense of ceremonies of other cultures.

....cuz they are more scientific than anything else, rite ?

the knowledge of the vedas was supposedly passed down thru' genrerations by 'enlightened' saints,gurus,sages,etc... these ppl imo, were just very bright philosophers/scientists (back in those days, philosophy and science was probably one field, not seggregated). only a few records of the vedas were put down on paper,but i 'think' they date back to the 3rd century BC.
a lot of 'modern scientific' facts have been believed to be proven / talked abt in the vedas. some of these include:
quantam physics, theory of evolution, geometry, surgical bio/chem, etc...

[methodman535]

Do hindus claim that the vedic scriptures are divine, like the quran, or is it generally accepted that they are man made today by the vast majority of hindus?

lol, this is definitely NOT our belief and it is not "accepted" by even a minority of hindus. there is no timestamp on the Vedas, it is believed that the Vedas have no date of "creation" and is an eternal emanation of the lord.

:shock:


I heard someone refer to the vedas as having an agnostic element to them.

[coolsitara_45]

a few verses from Vedas shedding light into the theories would be good to read. who is willing to find those?

[methodman535]

Whoever wants to find them you can count on me to try and analyse them and show them to be manmade.

[coolsitara_45]

^^ what's with the attitude? :shock:

[methodman535]

Theres no attitude. Its just a desire to break down the old and bring in the new.

[coolsitara_45]

^ hopefully your desire doesn't scare people away into posting the verses cause i would really like to see them.

[gagan512]

manmade or not, i think their philosophical/scientific/agnostic nature (how ever u want to put it) puts it ahead of several other 'books' of wisdom that i would choose to follow, and abide by.
the vedas are a source of knowledge and enlightenment, not a book of regulations to be followed.

im trying to find credible sources to post some verses up here...

[Hindu_Nutcase]

a few verses from Vedas shedding light into the theories would be good to read. who is willing to find those?

yeh i'll try and locate some when I get the time. I don't know much
on this but i'll c what can be done

[Hindu_Nutcase]

I heard someone refer to the vedas as having an agnostic element to them.

I think this piece may explain or at least indicate what one may mean by an agnostic element in Hinduism:

7
Starting Point of Universal Spirituality

Hindu seers and sages could tap the sources of universal spirituality because they did not start with an a priori assumption of an Almighty God whom man had to fear and obey in awe and objection. Nor did they fortify this a priori assumption with a framework of deductive inferences drawn from an observed order in the workings of the outer world. They never asserted that an Almighty God had to be accepted as a matter of faith as the creator and controller of the cosmos. Nor did they dogmatise that faith in an Almighty God could not and should not be subjected to the test of human experience and reflective reason.

The starting point of Hindu sages and seers was not God but man. Their testing ground for what they divined was not fanatical faith but direct perception (pratyakSa pramãNa). Whether it is the Mahabharata of a very distant date, or the songs of Chandidas who came quite late, the refrain has always been, sabãr ûpar mãnuSa satya, that is, the highest truth is man, the ultimate mystery (paramam guhyam) above all other mysteries.

Man is neither an a priori assumption nor an abstract concept like God. On the contrary, man is a concrete reality accessible to direct (pratyakSa) perception which is the only valid evidence (pramãNa) recognised by Hindu spirituality. The first question which a Hindu seeker puts to himself, therefore, is: “Who am I (ko’ham)?” This is the question asked again and again in the Upanishads. This is the question which Raman Maharshi asked himself in the twentieth century, only to reaffirm the ancient answer: “I am That (aham brahmo’smi).”

Lest this starting point of Hindu spirituality be mistaken for modern humanism, it may be made clear that the former does not stop short at the first few faculties of knowledge possessed by man. It searches for and finds some other and more powerful human faculties of higher and wider knowledge. Modern humanism views man mostly as a rational, or a social, or a tool-making (homo fabricus) animal, or, at best, as a scientist, or an artist, or a seeker of ethical and aesthetic values. Hindu spirituality does not deny or discount these definitions of man. Man can indeed be placed in all these categories. What Hindu spirituality has discovered specifically is that man is very much more than his body, his mind, and his intellect. His reach is far beyond his inventive, his imaginative, and his intuitive genius. Hindu spirituality proclaims that man in his innermost being is eternal auspicious consciousness, Shivo’ham, as the Adi Shankaracharya sang.

[ThreeFiddy]

I'm also interested in reading these theories regarding quantam physics, geometry, biology, etc.

[adren@line]

unless proven otherwise,

EVERY religious text is man made.

thats just the fact of the matter.

What people actually believe is a different story.

[gagan512]

unless proven otherwise,

EVERY religious text is man made.

thats just the fact of the matter.

What people actually believe is a different story.

I agree

[methodman535]

Do hindus claim that the vedic scriptures are divine, like the quran, or is it generally accepted that they are man made today by the vast majority of hindus?

lol, this is definitely NOT our belief and it is not "accepted" by even a minority of hindus. there is no timestamp on the Vedas, it is believed that the Vedas have no date of "creation" and is an eternal emanation of the lord.

I find it hard to believe that it is not accepted even by a minority of hindus that the vedas are man written documents. hindu here meaning a person of hindu background who may be a rationalist or agnostic or even an atheist. Of course, Im not sure if that is an official hindu any more though even though he would identify more with being a hindu than with any other faith.