The absolute power and control lies in story telling... Jews have realized that.

[BMW-racer]

The easiest way to draw a picture in someone’s head is to tell him/her a
descriptive story. Having said that, there are so many ways to tell the same story, i.e.:

[Story 1]
I got robbed last night. The person took my 100 bucks.

[Story 2]
I was walking down the dark alley that is predominantly Black. Oh it was so scary, these black folks gawking at me as I walk down, their eyes glowed even whiter in the darkness. Then all of the sudden I got hit behind my neck, it was like the whole world came down on me. I fell on the floor right that instant, and tried to drag myself away from whatever hit me… But I couldn’t… something was holding me back… It was this monstrous face that is etched in my head for the rest of my life looking at me with his eyes filled with fierce animosity. He growled and snatched my purse, and looked at me as if he would eat me alive. I closed my eyes, praying to god that he does not rape me or kill me… I open my eyes, and he was gone. I ran home, and thanked god for saving me from this beast. This experience has changed me in a deep and profound way; I will never be able to sleep peacefully as the moment I close my eyes, I see those eyes glaring at me. I am traumatized for the rest of my life.
[/Story 2]

Aforementioned stories have no relevance to any truth or real life, but it just goes to show how the evil is depicted in the second story.
This is what the Jewish community realized when they were going through their establishment phase in North America and other parts of the world. They slowly took over any medium that was responsible for keeping people informed. Most of all the media, i.e. popular newspapers, TV/Radio channels, forums, and etc are owned by the Jewish folks.
Combine the flow of information with the most important thing in anyone’s life, money, and you have the absolute control over whatever you want to accomplish.

The latest example of this phenomenon is Iranian President’s visit to Columbia University. The newspapers declared, “The Evil has landed” the moment he landed in the U.S. This obviously made up minds of the Americans before this guy even got a chance to step out of the airplane.
He was labeled a cruel dictator (despite the fact that he was actually democratically elected) before he even got a chance to speak at the Columbia University. The newspapers’ headlines the next day read “he is a cruel dictator!”, “He denied the holocaust!”, “he caused an outcry in the Jewish Community!”, “Holocaust was real damn it, my parents lived through it!” and etc.
Yep. As sad as it may sound, it is the media that makes up our minds and decides our opinions for the most part. Too bad Jews control it - not because they are Jewish, but because they have mastered the art of story telling and have the power to manipulate thoughts to their advantage.

p.s. I wrote this, so I'd like to hear what people have to say of this.

[FunkyF]

well put, but you can't say it in public, or they will try to label you an anti-semite, bigot, etc

[BMW-racer]

well put, but you can't say it in public, or they will try to label you an anti-semite, bigot, etc
but none of this anti-sematic, it is a fact that most of all the Newspaper/TV News Channels/Radio News Channels/Forums are owned by the Jewish Community - and they know how to make money out of it.
And isn't control over your thoughts ABSOLUTE control? if you can manipulate someone's thoughts and make their decisions for them, I'd say that's pretty much all the control you need to get anything done.

[not-now]

yeah it's true i think alot of people know this but are too afraid to out of fear of being labelled anti-semetic.Just watch I bet you'll get attacked soon for making this thread.

[sweet_redemption]

I'm a student at Columbia and I was there while he gave his little speech, it wasnt as bad as the media has hyped it up to be. Suddenly the whole world has to be some sort of pro-Isrealite and anti-dictatorship comodity in order to suffice as a true American patriot. It's ridiculous. The real reason they are so reluctant and intolerant towards him, is one main reason.. he's Muslim. That's all, the rest are just reasons to justify their rude behavior towards him. I went to a baseball game not to long ago, and was Boo'd by people for not standing up in the 7th ining strecth to sing "God bless America". I was like who cares!!! Where the hell is the individualism and freedom of speech now? When a lot of people want to show animosity towards Muslims they show use the "freedom of speech and press" bit, such as with the whole Rishdie guy, or the man who drew pictures of the Prophet... but when that group in notion wants to express something its like.. "they are not one of us"..

Personally, America is a capitalist prude.. Their main goal, capture any weak country. Counquer and divide.

This nation is nothing but one big Ethnic group with some warfare issues.

[BMW-racer]

yeah it's true i think alot of people know this but are too afraid to out of fear of being labelled anti-semetic.Just watch I bet you'll get attacked soon for making this thread.
haha, i still don't see this being anti-sematic. I am not saying that Jewish folks are evil, and are killing everyone in their paths. or that the holocaust never happened.
I am just stating the truth of how Jewish Community has established itself around the globe.

[BMW-racer]

I'm a student at Columbia and I was there while he gave his little speech, it wasnt as bad as the media has hyped it up to be. Suddenly the whole world has to be some sort of pro-Isrealite and anti-dictatorship comodity in order to suffice as a true American patriot. It's ridiculous. The real reason they are so reluctant and intolerant towards him, is one main reason.. he's Muslim. That's all, the rest are just reasons to justify their rude behavior towards him. I went to a baseball game not to long ago, and was Boo'd by people for not standing up in the 7th ining strecth to sing "God bless America". I was like who cares!!! Where the hell is the individualism and freedom of speech now? When a lot of people want to show animosity towards Muslims they show use the "freedom of speech and press" bit, such as with the whole Rishdie guy, or the man who drew pictures of the Prophet... but when that group in notion wants to express something its like.. "they are not one of us"..

Personally, America is a capitalist prude.. Their main goal, capture any weak country. Counquer and divide.

This nation is nothing but one big Ethnic group with some warfare issues.
this is where the major contrast in my two stories kick in.
if you look at the first story, there's no mention of race/religion. But in the second story, you see a picture of an evil Black guy being drawn (just because it has become a stereotype of blacks being the small-time thugs.).
Check out any newspaper now, and look at the Headlines "Five Muslim terrorists were caught attempting to suicide bomb." They could just label them as terrorists, but they have to mention the part that they're Muslims. Not Saudis, not middle-eastern, not Pakistanis, but MUSLIMS!
please tell me if this isn't the trend.

on the note of Iranian President, the whole reason why he was invited was to paint his picture evil - and it served that exact purpose. Earlier, the common-folks of the US weren't even aware of his name, now they see him as the EVIL!

[sweet_redemption]

this is where the major contrast in my two stories kick in.
if you look at the first story, there's no mention of race/religion. But in the second story, you see a picture of an evil Black guy being drawn (just because it has become a stereotype of blacks being the small-time thugs.).
Check out any newspaper now, and look at the Headlines "Five Muslim terrorists were caught attempting to suicide bomb." They could just label them as terrorists, but they have to mention the part that they're Muslims. Not Saudis, not middle-eastern, not Pakistanis, but MUSLIMS!
please tell me if this isn't the trend.

on the note of Iranian President, the whole reason why he was invited was to paint his picture evil - and it served that exact purpose. Earlier, the common-folks of the US weren't even aware of his name, now they see him as the EVIL!Emperor Justinian of Constantinople, in about the year 500, invited some of his rivals to a Chariot game. After a while he had them slaughtered, with the crowd cheering. He then said " I have now established just law"

Kind of reminded me of what's going on now with Irans president and the US. They invited him then abused him of his presence.
History does repeat itself I guess. It's so funny how people think that we are living in a democracy even though only ONE law of the contitution is still intact, while all others have been violated by the government.

[BMW-racer]

Emperor Justinian of Constantinople, in about the year 500, invited some of his rivals to a Chariot game. After a while he had them slaughtered, with the crowd cheering. He then said " I have now established just law"

Kind of reminded me of what's going on now with Irans president and the US. They invited him then abused him of his presence.
History does repeat itself I guess. It's so funny how people think that we are living in a democracy even though only ONE law of the contitution is still intact, while all others have been violated by the government.
well, how else would you accuse someone that gives no reason to be accused? Before his invitation to Columbia University, he wasn't known as the "Saddam" of Iran. Now he is.
Is he not loyal to his country? Is his country in a state of domestic/political turbulance? Is he invading another country? Is he a threat to the US?
No!
But now the Americans wont blink their eyes if they were to find out that the US has invaded Iran.
You know Syria was attacked on Sept 6th by Isreali planes. How many people know about this covert operation? Not too many! Why not? Well, the newspapers conveniently ignored the news.

[not-now]

haha, i still don't see this being anti-sematic. I am not saying that Jewish folks are evil, and are killing everyone in their paths. or that the holocaust never happened.
I am just stating the truth of how Jewish Community has established itself around the globe.


yeah I know it's not thats my point it's true what you said but if u point this out or say criticize israel they'll label you as anti-semetic you have to careful.Heck sharon himself admitted jews are in control .

[BMW-racer]

yeah I know it's not thats my point it's true what you said but if u point this out or say criticize israel they'll label you as anti-semetic you have to careful.Heck sharon himself admitted jews are in control .
i see your point, and you're right, they are.

[not-now]

you gotta give them credit though they worked hard to ge there it is amazing how such a small minority having such a great amount of influence.

[BMW-racer]

To be fair, ahmadinjenad had his own reasons for coming here in the first place, and they probably weren't the most noble of intentions...

it's all politricks, people need to learn how to sift through the bullshit and take what's really valuable.

To the person who didn't stand for the national anthem...whenever I go to a mets or yankee game, I stand up. I don't put my hand over my heart and sing along, but you have to realize that you are in america, and you are attending a match of what is nationally considered to be "america's game," so, you should be aware of that before you even enter the stadium.
he didn't go to Columbia University on his own, he was invited to be insulted and portayed as anti-semi.
the point isn't about him, it is about the totality of the information control and what is brain-washing the less educated (comprising the majority) of US.

[BMW-racer]

you gotta give them credit though they worked hard to ge there it is amazing how such a small minority having such a great amount of influence.
absolutely!
it is their hard work that paid off.

[not-now]

well, how else would you accuse someone that gives no reason to be accused? Before his invitation to Columbia University, he wasn't known as the "Saddam" of Iran. Now he is.
Is he not loyal to his country? Is his country in a state of domestic/political turbulance? Is he invading another country? Is he a threat to the US?
No!
But now the Americans wont blink their eyes if they were to find out that the US has invaded Iran.
You know Libya was attacked on Sept 6th by Isreali planes. How many people know about this covert operation? Not too many! Why not? Well, the newspapers conveniently ignored the news.

:werd:

lets not forget other shit they tried to pull like "operation trojan horse" or the lavon affair.
Funny how they were never condemmend or punished for those lol and they have the nerve to accuse ahmedinejad of making trouble .

[not-now]

so do koreans, but they don't use their influence to ruin peoples lives and put a strangle-hold on public opinion. the line has to be drawn somewhere.


yep thats true also.I guess it leads back to protection of israel again.

[BMW-racer]

Yeah, but he aint no fool...he knew what was in store for him when he came here...he certainly wasn't going to be portrayed as a saint. Castro and Arafat were treated the same way, if not worse.

It's sad though, because I watched the entire exchange the other day, which is something 90% of americans haven't, and will not do. The greater majority of the people having a fit over his appearance were jews, and virtually every newspaper in the city echoed their sentiments within their headlines...that alone should be an indication of the kind of grip the "jewish lobby" has on public opinion and how current events are portrayed to the general public.
that is exactly the point.
All major Canadian Newspapers are Jewish owned, and each one of them had his picture on the front page with captions of insults thrown at him - if i was to just look at that front page, i'd automatically assume he's some ruthless and cruel dictator that needs to be thrown out.
this whole exercise is just to justify reasons of attacking Iran.

[BMW-racer]

:werd:

lets not forget other shit they tried to pull like "operation trojan horse" or the lavon affair.
Funny how they were never condemmend or punished for those lol and they have the nerve to accuse ahmedinejad of making trouble .
yeah.
there's an article i was reading on some forum that highlighted the panic in Iran since the 6th sept attack. The Indian General recently returned to India and told the media how freaked out Iranians are of how they will soon be attacked.

[Space-Cowboy]

The easiest way to draw a picture in someone’s head is to tell him/her a
descriptive story. Having said that, there are so many ways to tell the same story, i.e.:

[Story 1]
I got robbed last night. The person took my 100 bucks.

[Story 2]
I was walking down the dark alley that is predominantly Black. Oh it was so scary, these black folks gawking at me as I walk down, their eyes glowed even whiter in the darkness. Then all of the sudden I got hit behind my neck, it was like the whole world came down on me. I fell on the floor right that instant, and tried to drag myself away from whatever hit me… But I couldn’t… something was holding me back… It was this monstrous face that is etched in my head for the rest of my life looking at me with his eyes filled with fierce animosity. He growled and snatched my purse, and looked at me as if he would eat me alive. I closed my eyes, praying to god that he does not rape me or kill me… I open my eyes, and he was gone. I ran home, and thanked god for saving me from this beast. This experience has changed me in a deep and profound way; I will never be able to sleep peacefully as the moment I close my eyes, I see those eyes glaring at me. I am traumatized for the rest of my life.
[/Story 2]

Aforementioned stories have no relevance to any truth or real life, but it just goes to show how the evil is depicted in the second story.
This is what the Jewish community realized when they were going through their establishment phase in North America and other parts of the world. They slowly took over any medium that was responsible for keeping people informed. Most of all the media, i.e. popular newspapers, TV/Radio channels, forums, and etc are owned by the Jewish folks.
Combine the flow of information with the most important thing in anyone’s life, money, and you have the absolute control over whatever you want to accomplish.

The latest example of this phenomenon is Iranian President’s visit to Columbia University. The newspapers declared, “The Evil has landed” the moment he landed in the U.S. This obviously made up minds of the Americans before this guy even got a chance to step out of the airplane.
He was labeled a cruel dictator (despite the fact that he was actually democratically elected) before he even got a chance to speak at the Columbia University. The newspapers’ headlines the next day read “he is a cruel dictator!”, “He denied the holocaust!”, “he caused an outcry in the Jewish Community!”, “Holocaust was real damn it, my parents lived through it!” and etc.
Yep. As sad as it may sound, it is the media that makes up our minds and decides our opinions for the most part. Too bad Jews control it - not because they are Jewish, but because they have mastered the art of story telling and have the power to manipulate thoughts to their advantage.

p.s. I wrote this, so I'd like to hear what people have to say of this.


[Story 1]

There are Jewish people in the media.


[Story 2]

Aforementioned stories have no relevance to any truth or real life, but it just goes to show how the evil is depicted in the second story.
This is what the Jewish community realized when they were going through their establishment phase in North America and other parts of the world. They slowly took over any medium that was responsible for keeping people informed. Most of all the media, i.e. popular newspapers, TV/Radio channels, forums, and etc are owned by the Jewish folks.
Combine the flow of information with the most important thing in anyone’s life, money, and you have the absolute control over whatever you want to accomplish.

The latest example of this phenomenon is Iranian President’s visit to Columbia University. The newspapers declared, “The Evil has landed” the moment he landed in the U.S. This obviously made up minds of the Americans before this guy even got a chance to step out of the airplane.
He was labeled a cruel dictator (despite the fact that he was actually democratically elected) before he even got a chance to speak at the Columbia University. The newspapers’ headlines the next day read “he is a cruel dictator!”, “He denied the holocaust!”, “he caused an outcry in the Jewish Community!”, “Holocaust was real damn it, my parents lived through it!” and etc.
Yep. As sad as it may sound, it is the media that makes up our minds and decides our opinions for the most part. Too bad Jews control it - not because they are Jewish, but because they have mastered the art of story telling and have the power to manipulate thoughts to their advantage.

p.s. I wrote this, so I'd like to hear what people have to say of this.

[BMW-racer]

[Story 1]

There are Jewish people in the media.


[Story 2]

Aforementioned stories have no relevance to any truth or real life, but it just goes to show how the evil is depicted in the second story.
This is what the Jewish community realized when they were going through their establishment phase in North America and other parts of the world. They slowly took over any medium that was responsible for keeping people informed. Most of all the media, i.e. popular newspapers, TV/Radio channels, forums, and etc are owned by the Jewish folks.
Combine the flow of information with the most important thing in anyone’s life, money, and you have the absolute control over whatever you want to accomplish.

The latest example of this phenomenon is Iranian President’s visit to Columbia University. The newspapers declared, “The Evil has landed” the moment he landed in the U.S. This obviously made up minds of the Americans before this guy even got a chance to step out of the airplane.
He was labeled a cruel dictator (despite the fact that he was actually democratically elected) before he even got a chance to speak at the Columbia University. The newspapers’ headlines the next day read “he is a cruel dictator!”, “He denied the holocaust!”, “he caused an outcry in the Jewish Community!”, “Holocaust was real damn it, my parents lived through it!” and etc.
Yep. As sad as it may sound, it is the media that makes up our minds and decides our opinions for the most part. Too bad Jews control it - not because they are Jewish, but because they have mastered the art of story telling and have the power to manipulate thoughts to their advantage.

p.s. I wrote this, so I'd like to hear what people have to say of this.
i don't get it...
you quoted me, and then quoted me again. :|

[foreverconfused]

I'm a student at Columbia and I was there while he gave his little speech, it wasnt as bad as the media has hyped it up to be. Suddenly the whole world has to be some sort of pro-Isrealite and anti-dictatorship comodity in order to suffice as a true American patriot. It's ridiculous. The real reason they are so reluctant and intolerant towards him, is one main reason.. he's Muslim. That's all, the rest are just reasons to justify their rude behavior towards him. I went to a baseball game not to long ago, and was Boo'd by people for not standing up in the 7th ining strecth to sing "God bless America". I was like who cares!!! Where the hell is the individualism and freedom of speech now? When a lot of people want to show animosity towards Muslims they show use the "freedom of speech and press" bit, such as with the whole Rishdie guy, or the man who drew pictures of the Prophet... but when that group in notion wants to express something its like.. "they are not one of us"..

Personally, America is a capitalist prude.. Their main goal, capture any weak country. Counquer and divide.

This nation is nothing but one big Ethnic group with some warfare issues.

i think this part of the argument is completely flawed.

[not-now]

yeah.
there's an article i was reading on some forum that highlighted the panic in Iran since the 6th sept attack. The Indian General recently returned to India and told the media how freaked out Iranians are of how they will soon be attacked.


to be honest I don't think iran will be attacked anytime soon but unfortunately there is alot of propoganda thats makes it seem that way.

[BMW-racer]

to be honest I don't think iran will be attacked anytime soon but unfortunately there is alot of propoganda thats makes it seem that way.
i don't think so either, but i wont turn my head away from the possibility either.
but it is how the Iranians are feeling. After the silent attack on sept 6th, all they are concerned about is their turn.

[not-now]

i don't think so either, but i wont turn my head away from the possibility either.
but it is how the Iranians are feeling. After the silent attack on sept 6th, all they are concerned about is their turn.


what exactly happened on sept 6th ? lol case in point the media is always silent about this stuff.

[BMW-racer]

what exactly happened on sept 6th ? lol case in point the media is always silent about this stuff.
- Syria buys the latest and the greatest Russian Anti-Aircraft Technology.
- in the middle of the night, Israelis planes are hovering the skies shooting a specific target marked by Israeli troops on land.
- what was the target? it has not been said.
- how did the Israelis get past the Anti-Aircraft system? Most probably because Russian Technology sucks.
- how did Israeli troops manage to be on foreign land to mark the target? Still a mystery.
- Israel refused to comment on the operation, but only admitted that there was an operation that was carried out on the 6th.
- Middle-eastern newspapers highlighted the assault, but that's as far as the news went.

*edit: my bad.. i've been writing Syria as Libya.

[NdNStaTEofMinD]

US wont attack Iran, They know its gonna turn into another Iraq. It would most likely be worse since They are more united so the underground resistance, after the fall of the conventional armed forces, would be much more stronger and effective.

[not-now]

- Libya buys the latest and the greatest Russian Anti-Aircraft Technology.
- in the middle of the night, Israelis planes are hovering the skies shooting a specific target marked by Israeli troops on land.
- what was the target? it has not been said.
- how did the Israelis get past the Anti-Aircraft system? Most probably because Russian Technology sucks.
- how did Israeli troops manage to be on foreign land to mark the target? Still a mystery.
- Israel refused to comment on the operation, but only admitted that there was an operation that was carried out on the 6th.
- Middle-eastern newspapers highlighted the assault, but that's as far as the news went.


I see thx yeah i also head they violated syrian airspace some weeks ago and nobody said anything against them lol how ironic israel accuses it's neighbours of being the aggresors when it pulls stunts like that not to mention their previous affairs.

[BMW-racer]

I see thx yeah i also head they violated syrian airspace some weeks ago and nobody said anything against them lol how ironic israel accuses it's neighbours of being the aggresors when it pulls stunts like that not to mention their previous affairs.
i am sorry man, i've been writing Syria as Libya... i've had a long day.
here's the news in question:

Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’
Secret raid on Korean shipment

Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv, Sarah Baxter in Washington and Michael Sheridan
IT was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria’s formidable air defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from the Iraqi border was under way.

At a rendezvous point on the ground, a Shaldag air force commando team was waiting to direct their laser beams at the target for the approaching jets. The team had arrived a day earlier, taking up position near a large underground depot. Soon the bunkers were in flames.

Ten days after the jets reached home, their mission was the focus of intense speculation this weekend amid claims that Israel believed it had destroyed a cache of nuclear materials from North Korea.

The Israeli government was not saying. “The security sources and IDF [Israeli Defence Forces] soldiers are demonstrating unusual courage,” said Ehud Olmert, the prime minister. “We naturally cannot always show the public our cards.”

The Syrians were also keeping mum. “I cannot reveal the details,” said Farouk al-Sharaa, the vice-president. “All I can say is the military and political echelon is looking into a series of responses as we speak. Results are forthcoming.” The official story that the target comprised weapons destined for Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Lebanese Shi’ite group, appeared to be crumbling in the face of widespread scepticism.

Andrew Semmel, a senior US State Department official, said Syria might have obtained nuclear equipment from “secret suppliers”, and added that there were a “number of foreign technicians” in the country.

Asked if they could be North Korean, he replied: “There are North Korean people there. There’s no question about that.” He said a network run by AQ Khan, the disgraced creator of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, could be involved.

But why would nuclear material be in Syria? Known to have chemical weapons, was it seeking to bolster its arsenal with something even more deadly?

Alternatively, could it be hiding equipment for North Korea, enabling Kim Jong-il to pretend to be giving up his nuclear programme in exchange for economic aid? Or was the material bound for Iran, as some authorities in America suggest?

According to Israeli sources, preparations for the attack had been going on since late spring, when Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad, presented Olmert with evidence that Syria was seeking to buy a nuclear device from North Korea.

The Israeli spy chief apparently feared such a device could eventually be installed on North-Korean-made Scud-C missiles.

“This was supposed to be a devastating Syrian surprise for Israel,” said an Israeli source. “We’ve known for a long time that Syria has deadly chemical warheads on its Scuds, but Israel can’t live with a nuclear warhead.”

An expert on the Middle East, who has spoken to Israeli participants in the raid, told yesterday’s Washington Post that the timing of the raid on September 6 appeared to be linked to the arrival three days earlier of a ship carrying North Korean material labelled as cement but suspected of concealing nuclear equipment.

The target was identified as a northern Syrian facility that purported to be an agricultural research centre on the Euphrates river. Israel had been monitoring it for some time, concerned that it was being used to extract uranium from phosphates.

According to an Israeli air force source, the Israeli satellite Ofek 7, launched in June, was diverted from Iran to Syria. It sent out high-quality images of a northeastern area every 90 minutes, making it easy for air force specialists to spot the facility.

Early in the summer Ehud Barak, the defence minister, had given the order to double Israeli forces on its Golan Heights border with Syria in anticipation of possible retaliation by Damascus in the event of air strikes.

Sergei Kirpichenko, the Russian ambassador to Syria, warned President Bashar al-Assad last month that Israel was planning an attack, but suggested the target was the Golan Heights.

Israeli military intelligence sources claim Syrian special forces moved towards the Israeli outpost of Mount Hermon on the Golan Heights. Tension rose, but nobody knew why.

At this point, Barak feared events could spiral out of control. The decision was taken to reduce the number of Israeli troops on the Golan Heights and tell Damascus the tension was over. Syria relaxed its guard shortly before the Israeli Defence Forces struck.

Only three Israeli cabinet ministers are said to have been in the know � Olmert, Barak and Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister. America was also consulted. According to Israeli sources, American air force codes were given to the Israeli air force attaché in Washington to ensure Israel’s F15Is would not mistakenly attack their US counterparts.

Once the mission was under way, Israel imposed draconian military censorship and no news of the operation emerged until Syria complained that Israeli aircraft had violated its airspace. Syria claimed its air defences had engaged the planes, forcing them to drop fuel tanks to lighten their loads as they fled.

But intelligence sources suggested it was a highly successful Israeli raid on nuclear material supplied by North Korea.

Washington was rife with speculation last week about the precise nature of the operation. One source said the air strikes were a diversion for a daring Israeli commando raid, in which nuclear materials were intercepted en route to Iran and hauled to Israel. Others claimed they were destroyed in the attack.

There is no doubt, however, that North Korea is accused of nuclear cooperation with Syria, helped by AQ Khan’s network. John Bolton, who was undersecretary for arms control at the State Department, told the United Nations in 2004 the Pakistani nuclear scientist had “several other” customers besides Iran, Libya and North Korea.

Some of his evidence came from the CIA, which had reported to Congress that it viewed “Syrian nuclear intentions with growing concern”.

“I’ve been worried for some time about North Korea and Iran outsourcing their nuclear programmes,” Bolton said last week. Syria, he added, was a member of a “junior axis of evil”, with a well-established ambition to develop weapons of mass destruction.

The links between Syria and North Korea date back to the rule of Kim Il-sung and President Hafez al-Assad in the last century. In recent months, their sons have quietly ordered an increase in military and technical cooperation.

Foreign diplomats who follow North Korean affairs are taking note. There were reports of Syrian passengers on flights from Beijing to Pyongyang and sightings of Middle Eastern businessmen from sources who watch the trains from North Korea to China.

On August 14, Rim Kyong Man, the North Korean foreign trade minister, was in Syria to sign a protocol on “cooperation in trade and science and technology”. No details were released, but it caught Israel’s attention.

Syria possesses between 60 and 120 Scud-C missiles, which it has bought from North Korea over the past 15 years. Diplomats believe North Korean engineers have been working on extending their 300-mile range. It means they can be used in the deserts of northeastern Syria � the area of the Israeli strike.

The triangular relationship between North Korea, Syria and Iran continues to perplex intelligence analysts. Syria served as a conduit for the transport to Iran of an estimated £50m of missile components and technology sent by sea from North Korea. The same route may be in use for nuclear equipment.

But North Korea is at a sensitive stage of negotiations to end its nuclear programme in exchange for security guarantees and aid, leading some diplomats to cast doubt on the likelihood that Kim would cross America’s “red line” forbidding the proliferation of nuclear materials.

Christopher Hill, the State Department official representing America in the talks, said on Friday he could not confirm “intelligence-type things”, but the reports underscored the need “to make sure the North Koreans get out of the nuclear business”.

By its actions, Israel showed it is not interested in waiting for diplomacy to work where nuclear weapons are at stake.

As a bonus, the Israelis proved they could penetrate the Syrian air defence system, which is stronger than the one protecting Iranian nuclear sites.

This weekend President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran sent Ali Akbar Mehrabian, his nephew, to Syria to assess the damage. The new “axis of evil” may have lost one of its spokes.

[BMW-racer]

What Happened on September 6, 2007?

On September 6, 2007, something very important may have happened in northern Syria near the Turkish border. It is believed that Israeli Air Force (IAF) F-16s and F-15s attacked a site in Syria that may have had nuclear material. What is alarming is not the increase in tensions from Syria and Israel, but the silence that exists on both sides. Complicating matters is the contention that North Korea is involved in Syrian nuclear ambitions.

There are scattered and unverifiable reports that Israel carried out a strike against a Syrian target. What exactly the target was and what was struck is not yet clear; however, something very important may have occurred, akin to the strike on Osirak in Iraq in 1981. Global Security has constructed a timeline of the events and news reports that have leaked out since the incident occurred.

An unnamed source stated four days after the incident that a pilot nuclear enrichment operation was the target of the strike. The next day, a U.S. government official stated that the target was a Syrian weapons shipment destined for Hezbollah militants in Lebanon. On September 13, 2007, Washington Post reporter Glenn Kessler wrote that "...a former Israeli official said he had been told that it was an attack against a facility capable of making unconventional weapons." On September 15th, Kessler reported that an Israeli official provided the U.S. with evidence of Syrian-North Korean cooperation on a nuclear facility.

On September 16th, the Sunday Times reported that Syria had planned a "devastating surprise" for Israel in response to Israel's attack on the nuclear shipment from North Korea to Syria.

"The paper reported that Israeli sources said planning for the strike began in late spring 2007 when Mossad director Meir Dagan presented Prime Minister Ehud Olmert with evidence that Syria was seeking to buy a nuclear weapon from North Korea."

Then again on September 16th, military intelligence chief Amos Yadlin told the Israeli Foreign Affairs and Defense parliamentary committee that Israel had recovered its "deterrent capability" after the strike on Syria.

These reports may sound like the background for a James Bond movie, but they are real and could have an enormous impact on the strategic reality of the Middle East for years to come. It is also very troubling to think that North Korea may be in the business of selling nuclear weapons to terrorist supporting states. If it is true that North Korea is willing to sell a working nuclear weapon to Syria, they may also be willing to sell one to al Qaeda.

It is also revealing that both Israel and Syria have remained so silent on the subject. Syria certainly knows how to make a fuss in the United Nations when it wants to. Past Israeli strikes on militant camps in Syria have provoked a loud outcry among Arab and Islamic states against Israel. With Syria staying mum after a violation of its airspace by Israeli warplanes, it indicates clearly that Syria does not want to bring attention to itself. It is also likely that Turkey, or elements of the Turkish military, provided IAF jets with a flight corridor to the Syrian site. Drop tanks believed to be from IAF jets were found in Turkey who then asked Israel for clarification on the matter. Turkey and Israel have a longstanding intelligence and defense relationship despite their religious differences.

Shortly after the IAF strike, North Korea cancelled Six-Party talks at the last minute. The talks were scheduled to begin on September 19, 2007 to further negotiations to dismantle North Korea's nuclear program.(source) North Korea may have faced tough questions from U.S. officials over its involvement in Syria's nuclear program. Despite this, a U.S. led team of experts is expected soon to deliver a very positive report on the progress of inspections after visiting Pyongyang.

However, North Korea may be cooperating more openly with the Six Party group because it has outsourced its nuclear program to Syria. North Korea has called allegations of its ties to Syrian nuclear development "a conspiracy".(source) However, it is a verifiable fact that a North Korean flagged freighter was docked at the Syrian port of Tartus on September 3, 2007.(source) "Two Web sites list the Al-Hamad freighter as having docked at Tartus on September 3, flying North Korean colors. A third Web site, run by the Egyptian Transportation Ministry, says the Al-Hamad docked in the Nile Delta one month earlier and later passed by the northern Lebanese port of Tripoli."

Syrian Scud Missile launchers were bought from North Korea or built using North Korean blue prints. It is believed they are stationed at the same port in Syria, Tartus, where the Al-Hamad freighter was spotted. While North Korea appears more cooperative in East Asia, it could be acting far more dangerously with Syria in the Middle East. U.S. officials have confirmed that North Korean nuclear experts were in Syria assisting in its covert nuclear program.(source)

The question for U.S., Israeli, and other Western policy makers is what this all means and what should be done about it? The U.S. has its hands full in Iraq and Afghanistan. European nations appear unenthusiastic, to put it mildly, in dealing with Iran's nuclear ambitions. North Korea appears to be more cooperative, but may be doing so to deflect attention from its involvement with Syria.

It can be assumed that Israel will take the actions that are necessary to protect itself and ensure its survival. The strike on Syria was very likely done to ensure that its nuclear deterrent would remain intact. Should Iran reach a critical point in its nuclear weapons program, it should be assumed that Israel will not hesitate to attack Iranian nuclear sites, even if it involves heavy losses and international condemnation.

Another possibility is that Israel preemptively destroyed a planned nuclear site in Syria and did the world an enormous favor, much like what it did in 1981 when it attacked the Osirak nuclear site in Iraq. In an absurd development, but typical of the United Nations, Syria has been made the co-chair of the International Atomic Energy Association (IAEA)(link), while the eighth anti-Syrian politician in a few years was assassinated in Lebanon. Although the prospect of peace between Syria and Israel looks bleak, Israel's actions may have saved the world from incredible danger and instability in the future.

It is quite clear that the "Axis of Evil" remains in tact, with Syria having taken Iraq's place. The question for American and Western policy makers is how much longer we will remain in a phony war against Iran and Syria?

[not-now]

ahh i see thx man lol u confused me for a bit .Interesting though that syria says the israeli warplanes were forces to retreat after they took aim with anti-aircraft missiles and they didn't destroy anything and only released their fuel tanks in the desert.
I don't think they would pull this with iran though .

[gkumar]

So you're saying this is a giant jewish conspiracy to take over the world?

I call bullshit

[BMW-racer]

ahh i see thx man lol u confused me for a bit .Interesting though that syria says the israeli warplanes were forces to retreat after they took aim with anti-aircraft missiles and they didn't destroy anything and only released their fuel tanks in the desert.
I don't think they would pull this with iran though.
I'd agree with that.
Iran is not an easy target either for the US or Israel.

[aww_skeet_skeet]

So you're saying this is a giant jewish conspiracy to take over the world?

I call bullshit


haha.... you dont even realize whats already happened...

[Space-Cowboy]

haha.... you dont even realize whats already happened...

And you think you do because...?

[aww_skeet_skeet]

And you think you do because...?

ima genius

[SillyKitty]

yeah it's true i think alot of people know this but are too afraid to out of fear of being labelled anti-semetic.Just watch I bet you'll get attacked soon for making this thread.
LOL and the funniest thing is, the people attackin aint even jewish, they usually attack because, they are against muslims.

people bit my head off for sayin ..why cant u just stick to worryin about your own race? cuz i dont really see Jews giving a flyin fuck about poverty in India.

[Echelon]

The only controlled lies that I've been good witness to is islamic propaganda.

[aymish]

The only controlled lies that I've been good witness to is islamic propaganda.

u forgot about ur own posts.

[SillyKitty]

haha.... you dont even realize whats already happened...
Exaclty..

and these people are too dumb and blind to see how true that is..

just look and LISTEN all around you.. its considred "patriotic" to condemn muslims..

BUT, just a word against the jews.. u are being Anti -Sematic.. and make ur life hard, just look at what mel gibson had to go through :no:



So i still dont get WHY this dumb asses over here dont see it.. ^^ its simple

[QTPunjaban]

I found it extremely hypocritical how Columbia University stepped up to invite President Ahmadinejad in the first place in the name of "freedom of speech" and then President Bollinger went on to only insult him in his introduction. That was very typical of the American mindset... all Americans do is talk shit, and if you invite someone to say their peace, you should not open for their speech with hatred and judgement. All President Bollinger should have done was to introduce him. I will tell you verry straight up that I am a Sikh and I honestly do not have any sympathy for Muslims, straight up. But I do see the spark in President Ahmadinejad. He is verry intelligent and charismatic, everything a leader should be... we haven't had that type of a leader in America for sooo long. Honestly, if we get into war with him, America would not know what to do. We should hear him out, respect what he is saying because, from what I have seen, he only tells the truth. If anyone has read "The Art of War", you should know that if we consider Iran a potential threat, the best thing we can do is to listen to him and try to understand him... for the entire U.S. delegate to get up and leave during his speech to the U.N. is STUPID... if one knows his enemy and knows himself, he will know the result of 1000 battles... we can't dismiss President Ahmadinejad. He is a reality in this world that is, dare I say, more clever than the president of our country. He deserves a chance... and if he wants peace, we should do everything in our power to see it through.... the man is straight up gangsta, and our goverment is NOT in the position to deal with it.....

[aww_skeet_skeet]

I found it extremely hypocritical how Columbia University stepped up to invite President Ahmadinejad in the first place in the name of "freedom of speech" and then President Bollinger went on to only insult him in his introduction. That was very typical of the American mindset... all Americans do is talk shit, and if you invite someone to say their peace, you should not open for their speech with hatred and judgement. All President Bollinger should have done was to introduce him. I will tell you verry straight up that I am a Sikh and I honestly do not have any sympathy for Muslims, straight up. But I do see the spark in President Ahmadinejad. He is verry intelligent and charismatic, everything a leader should be... we haven't had that type of a leader in America for sooo long. Honestly, if we get into war with him, America would not know what to do. We should hear him out, respect what he is saying because, from what I have seen, he only tells the truth. If anyone has read "The Art of War", you should know that if we consider Iran a potential threat, the best thing we can do is to listen to him and try to understand him... for the entire U.S. delegate to get up and leave during his speech to the U.N. is STUPID... if one knows his enemy and knows himself, he will know the result of 1000 battles... we can't dismiss President Ahmadinejad. He is a reality in this world that is, dare I say, more clever than the president of our country. He deserves a chance... and if he wants peace, we should do everything in our power to see it through.... the man is straight up gangsta, and our goverment is NOT in the position to deal with it.....\

seriously one of the more intelligent posts if read in a while...

[BMW-racer]

I found it extremely hypocritical how Columbia University stepped up to invite President Ahmadinejad in the first place in the name of "freedom of speech" and then President Bollinger went on to only insult him in his introduction. That was very typical of the American mindset... all Americans do is talk shit, and if you invite someone to say their peace, you should not open for their speech with hatred and judgement. All President Bollinger should have done was to introduce him. I will tell you verry straight up that I am a Sikh and I honestly do not have any sympathy for Muslims, straight up. But I do see the spark in President Ahmadinejad. He is verry intelligent and charismatic, everything a leader should be... we haven't had that type of a leader in America for sooo long. Honestly, if we get into war with him, America would not know what to do. We should hear him out, respect what he is saying because, from what I have seen, he only tells the truth. If anyone has read "The Art of War", you should know that if we consider Iran a potential threat, the best thing we can do is to listen to him and try to understand him... for the entire U.S. delegate to get up and leave during his speech to the U.N. is STUPID... if one knows his enemy and knows himself, he will know the result of 1000 battles... we can't dismiss President Ahmadinejad. He is a reality in this world that is, dare I say, more clever than the president of our country. He deserves a chance... and if he wants peace, we should do everything in our power to see it through.... the man is straight up gangsta, and our goverment is NOT in the position to deal with it.....
haha, awesome!
that you're right, the man's straight up gangsta! people ridicule him for his answers at Columbia, I find them straight hood!

[graphicDESIgner]

[Story 1]

There are Jewish people in the media.


[Story 2]

Aforementioned stories have no relevance to any truth or real life, but it just goes to show how the evil is depicted in the second story.
This is what the Jewish community realized when they were going through their establishment phase in North America and other parts of the world. They slowly took over any medium that was responsible for keeping people informed. Most of all the media, i.e. popular newspapers, TV/Radio channels, forums, and etc are owned by the Jewish folks.
Combine the flow of information with the most important thing in anyone’s life, money, and you have the absolute control over whatever you want to accomplish.

The latest example of this phenomenon is Iranian President’s visit to Columbia University. The newspapers declared, “The Evil has landed” the moment he landed in the U.S. This obviously made up minds of the Americans before this guy even got a chance to step out of the airplane.
He was labeled a cruel dictator (despite the fact that he was actually democratically elected) before he even got a chance to speak at the Columbia University. The newspapers’ headlines the next day read “he is a cruel dictator!”, “He denied the holocaust!”, “he caused an outcry in the Jewish Community!”, “Holocaust was real damn it, my parents lived through it!” and etc.
Yep. As sad as it may sound, it is the media that makes up our minds and decides our opinions for the most part. Too bad Jews control it - not because they are Jewish, but because they have mastered the art of story telling and have the power to manipulate thoughts to their advantage.

p.s. I wrote this, so I'd like to hear what people have to say of this.

:lol: :Owned:

[BMW-racer]

:lol: :Owned:
that's actually quite retarded.
you finding it funny and going to an extent of calling it "owned" is even more lame.

[BMW-racer]

The only controlled lies that I've been good witness to is islamic propaganda.
what propaganda is this?
please do enlighten me so i see the light.

[Echelon]

what propaganda is this?
please do enlighten me so i see the light.
LoL, are you serious, the rhetoric in this post itself is propaganda, so naturall you're story-telling yourself and using the same tools as those whom you're trying to bring out.

Islamic propaganda is a one sided point of view which floods these forums consistently, Opposition against israel, denial of 9/11 being a product of extremism/multiple conspiracy theories, illuminati/secret socieities.

[BMW-racer]

LoL, are you serious, the rhetoric in this post itself is propaganda, so naturall you're story-telling yourself and using the same tools as those whom you're trying to bring out.

Islamic propaganda is a one sided point of view which floods these forums consistently, Opposition against israel, denial of 9/11 being a product of extremism/multiple conspiracy theories, illuminati/secret socieities.
wait, so you're saying, referring back to your initial comment, that there's only islamic propaganda you've been subjected to, and that all you see is anti-israel propaganda around you.
deducing from that, you really don't read any newspapers or watch tv news channels, do you?

[BMW-racer]

LoL, are you serious, the rhetoric in this post itself is propaganda, so naturall you're story-telling yourself and using the same tools as those whom you're trying to bring out.

Islamic propaganda is a one sided point of view which floods these forums consistently, Opposition against israel, denial of 9/11 being a product of extremism/multiple conspiracy theories, illuminati/secret socieities.
realistically speaking, all of the conspiracy theories with regards to 9/11 and illuminati are generated by white folks.
the maker of "loose change" isn't muslim, as far as i know.

[Echelon]

realistically speaking, all of the conspiracy theories with regards to 9/11 and illuminati are generated by white folks.
the maker of "loose change" isn't muslim, as far as i know.
It doesn't matter who the creator is, loose change is one of many instances, it's just there is a constant pattern of muslims citing sources to bring logic to their rhetoric.

[Space-Cowboy]

that's actually quite retarded.
you finding it funny and going to an extent of calling it "owned" is even more lame.


Not really, it's quite apt.

[XprtNYYKY]

next time i cant fuck my way through a situation, ill remember your point and tell em' a story.
'

[BMW-racer]

It doesn't matter who the creator is, loose change is one of many instances, it's just there is a constant pattern of muslims citing sources to bring logic to their rhetoric.
wait... you're deviating from the point, dawg.
i don't care what your cat had for breakfast.
you initially indicated that the only propaganda you've been subjected to is pro-muslim. considering the context of this thread, we're talking about the mainstream media, not RD Forums or these documentaries - because if you were to take Internet forums as a whole as an example, you're too shallow to assume that there aren't any anti-muslim/pro-jew forums out there.
getting back to the point, you said you've been subjected to pro-muslim propaganda in the media, i.e. newspapers, tv channels, and etc.
please, give me an example of that and not of what statistic Spork wrote yesterday.

[BMW-racer]

Not really, it's quite apt.
actually, let's analyze that, Cowboy.
in this case, you took the aid of satire because you really had nothing to contribute to the original post.
but even satire has class, your attempt is just lame.
please explain me how it's apt.

[BMW-racer]

next time i cant fuck my way through a situation, ill remember your point and tell em' a story.
'
that's how it's done bro, it's all in the story telling.

[Echelon]

wait, so you're saying, referring back to your initial comment, that there's only islamic propaganda you've been subjected to, and that all you see is anti-israel propaganda around you.
deducing from that, you really don't read any newspapers or watch tv news channels, do you?
I think the media to some extent has the ability to warp things, stigmatize, victimise, stereotype etc. But I think muslims are at fault, with their problematic PR, the way the religion itself is taught and interpreted amongst countries, and the political positions/aspects of islamic nations.

I personally don't think there is a heirarchy of jews who control the world's affairs as they see fit. I think this is just an excuse for islamic bad light.

Jews are very powerful people, only because they know how to be powerful, they are educated, but at the same time they're exclusive introverts who'll keep to themselves. I really do believe this is just another example of "hating the playa, instead of hating the game".

People are continuously trying to attribute fault to jews and how they have control. People try and reach awareness against zionist movements, but at the end of the day, if you ever do realise that you're their puppet, then you're a bitch for a reason: they're simply just smarter than you.

People have always had the chance to be in control, but if they've been out-witted by jews over the last century or so, its partly their own fault for not taking the opportunity to control. I personally think they've obtained these media companies fairly.

Palestine and Israel has always been an ancient quarrel, there is no clear-cut oppressor here as most islamic propaganda claims.

[Space-Cowboy]

actually, let's analyze that, Cowboy.
in this case, you took the aid of satire because you really had nothing to contribute to the original post.
but even satire has class, your attempt is just lame.
please explain me how it's apt.

Explanation: You're using the very same 'methods' you accuse Jews of to demean them. These methods are nothing more than pure conjecture on your part, of course, so you really don't even have much of a leg to stand on to begin with.

[BMW-racer]

I think the media to some extent has the ability to warp things, stigmatize, victimise, stereotype etc. But I think muslims are at fault, with their problematic PR, the way the religion itself is taught and interpreted amongst countries, and the political positions/aspects of islamic nations.

I personally don't think there is a heirarchy of jews who control the world's affairs as they see fit. I think this is just an excuse for islamic bad light.

Jews are very powerful people, only because they know how to be powerful, they are educated, but at the same time they're exclusive introverts who'll keep to themselves. I really do believe this is just another example of "hating the playa, instead of hating the game".

People are continuously trying to attribute fault to jews and how they have control. People try and reach awareness against zionist movements, but at the end of the day, if you ever do realise that you're their puppet, then you're a bitch for a reason: they're simply just smarter than you.

People have always had the chance to be in control, but if they've been out-witted by jews over the last century or so, its partly their own fault for not taking the opportunity to control. I personally think they've obtained these media companies fairly.

Palestine and Israel has always been an ancient quarrel, there is no clear-cut oppressor here as most islamic propaganda claims.
you know what Echelon, i would agree with most of what you've said - not because it may be logical, but because i respect your posts.
however, i am still waiting for you to point out the propaganda you've been subjected to. let's stick to that for now, and discuss the rest later.

[Echelon]

wait... you're deviating from the point, dawg.
i don't care what your cat had for breakfast.
you initially indicated that the only propaganda you've been subjected to is pro-muslim. considering the context of this thread, we're talking about the mainstream media, not RD Forums or these documentaries - because if you were to take Internet forums as a whole as an example, you're too shallow to assume that there aren't any anti-muslim/pro-jew forums out there.
getting back to the point, you said you've been subjected to pro-muslim propaganda in the media, i.e. newspapers, tv channels, and etc.
please, give me an example of that and not of what statistic Spork wrote yesterday.
I'm talking about the propaganda the middle-east is subjected to. Mainstream views about anti-zionist movements etc.

[BMW-racer]

Explanation: You're using the very same 'methods' you accuse Jews of to demean them. These methods are nothing more than pure conjecture on your part, of course, so you really don't even have much of a leg to stand on to begin with.
that again, is absolutely lame with no class.
i am sorry. had you edited what i had written to make it look like a true satire, it would've worked.
but naah, you screwed up, cowboy.

[Space-Cowboy]

that again, is absolutely lame with no class.
i am sorry. had you edited what i had written to make it look like a true satire, it would've worked.
but naah, you screwed up, cowboy.


Why? Because it speaks volumes about the extent you'll go to to make them seem like the "scheming bad guys" you so desperately want them to be?

I haven't distorted anything. The bare facts are that you've got this self-righteous fantasy of Jewish conspiracy you'd like to draw on, completely devoid of any truth what so ever.

[foreverconfused]

wait... you're deviating from the point, dawg.
i don't care what your cat had for breakfast.
you initially indicated that the only propaganda you've been subjected to is pro-muslim. considering the context of this thread, we're talking about the mainstream media, not RD Forums or these documentaries - because if you were to take Internet forums as a whole as an example, you're too shallow to assume that there aren't any anti-muslim/pro-jew forums out there.
getting back to the point, you said you've been subjected to pro-muslim propaganda in the media, i.e. newspapers, tv channels, and etc.
please, give me an example of that and not of what statistic Spork wrote yesterday.

I have never witnessed anything "anti-Islam" in the media.

realistically, freedom of speech does not always apply to topics surrounding the holocaust. But that makes sense in a way, since it allows racists like you to stereotype jews as masterful manipulators, when that's the farthest thing from the truth.

[BMW-racer]

I'm talking about the propaganda the middle-east is subjected to. Mainstream views about anti-zionist movements etc.
well, that isn't really in the context of my initial argument is it?
let's agree on the fact, and do keep in mind that it is a fact, that Jewish Community owns most of the North American media, and holds a strong influence on what is being subjected to its audience.
that's my point.
regardless of whether you agree with me or not, story telling is how one influences thoughts of another of any event.
let's take you for an example, you tell a lot of stories, a lot of people believe in 'em, a lot do not. however, even the lot that does not still read 'em, because you seem to hit their "hot" buttons which provokes negative or positive sentiments.

[Khanverse]

but none of this anti-sematic, it is a fact that most of all the Newspaper/TV News Channels/Radio News Channels/Forums are owned by the Jewish Community - and they know how to make money out of it.
And isn't control over your thoughts ABSOLUTE control? if you can manipulate someone's thoughts and make their decisions for them, I'd say that's pretty much all the control you need to get anything done.

I vanna save you, REALLY I DO!

http://www.myspace.com/khanverse

^everything you need to know about this subject.

[BMW-racer]

I have never witnessed anything "anti-Islam" in the media.

realistically, freedom of speech does not always apply to topics surrounding the holocaust. But that makes sense in a way, since it allows racists like you to stereotype jews as masterful manipulators, when that's the farthest thing from the truth.
i am not racist.
i am not anti-jew. if i was anti-jews, i'd be ridiculing their religion.
i am just pointing out the fact that they hold a grasp on the media and what goes through with it.
kapish?

[Khanverse]

realistically speaking, all of the conspiracy theories with regards to 9/11 and illuminati are generated by white folks.
the maker of "loose change" isn't muslim, as far as i know.

actually jewish, doing damage control, supported by a BILLIONAIRE ZIONIST FAMILY, the simons.. (deborah simon)

check out iamthewitness.com

and of course, www.myspace.com/khanverse

[BMW-racer]

Why? Because it speaks volumes about the extent you'll go to to make them seem like the "scheming bad guys" you so desperately want them to be?

I haven't distorted anything. The bare facts are that you've got this self-righteous fantasy of Jewish conspiracy you'd like to draw on, completely devoid of any truth what so ever.
it doesn't speak of anything.
you're lame for actually putting an effort of explaning something that's utter literary nonsense.
sorry, Cowboy, like i said, you screwed up on this one.

[Echelon]

And if you think western media is free from anti-zionist movements, anti-semitism, you're wrong. In fact, its why I have trouble believing there are jews controlling the media. There are very subtle indications here and there about how jewish people operate, and there is a lot of light on the fact that they are very introverted, mysterious, wealthy and powerful.
This makes people worry because they are afraid of a powerful unknowing force.

[BMW-racer]

actually jewish, doing damage control, supported by a BILLIONAIRE ZIONIST FAMILY, the simons.. (deborah simon)

check out iamthewitness.com

and of course, www.myspace.com/khanverse
well, there you have it.
if Muslims were actually going out of their way spreading pro-muslim propaganda, we'd hear about it.
why haven't we?
Loose Change, Farenheit 9/11, and etc were not funded or produced by the muslims.
If muslims use that as a platform for defending their case, what is so wrong with that?

[Khanverse]

ayyo its me!

why is my post gettin deleted??

http://www.myspace.com/khanverse

[BMW-racer]

And if you think western media is free from anti-zionist movements, anti-semitism, you're wrong. In fact, its why I have trouble believing there are jews controlling the media. There are very subtle indications here and there about how jewish people operate, and there is a lot of light on the fact that they are very introverted, mysterious, wealthy and powerful.
This makes people worry because they are afraid of a powerful unknowing force.
you need to believe the facts, Dawg.
that's how the world works, if you don't believe the facts, you're classified under the crazies.
it is a fact that most of the newspapers in North America, along with popular news/radio channels are owned by the Jewish community.

[foreverconfused]

i am not racist.
i am not anti-jew. if i was anti-jews, i'd be ridiculing their religion.
i am just pointing out the fact that they hold a grasp on the media and what goes through with it.
kapish?

this thread is full of insulting (and untrue) generalizations about jewish people. You don't have to criticize Judaism to be an anti-jew.

[Echelon]

well, that isn't really in the context of my initial argument is it?
let's agree on the fact, and do keep in mind that it is a fact, that Jewish Community owns most of the North American media, and holds a strong influence on what is being subjected to its audience.
that's my point.
regardless of whether you agree with me or not, story telling is how one influences thoughts of another of any event.
let's take you for an example, you tell a lot of stories, a lot of people believe in 'em, a lot do not. however, even the lot that does not still read 'em, because you seem to hit their "hot" buttons which provokes negative or positive sentiments.Just out of curiousity, do you have any evidence of them owning mass media stations?
I'm in the media/marketing industry and personally I've never been subjected to jews controlling the way my partners operate.

In fact, the only right-wing media source that I can easily see as being heavily biased is: FOX, and that's owned by Murdoch who is Australian by birth.

[BMW-racer]

ayyo its me!

why is my post gettin deleted??

http://www.myspace.com/khanverse
which one? all your posts are here.

[Echelon]

you need to believe the facts, Dawg.
that's how the world works, if you don't believe the facts, you're classified under the crazies.
it is a fact that most of the newspapers in North America, along with popular news/radio channels are owned by the Jewish community.
I don't believe in facts, I believe in probability.

[BMW-racer]

this thread is full of insulting (and untrue) generalizations about jewish people. You don't have to criticize Judaism to be an anti-jew.
please quote me once where i've actually insulted the jews.

[BMW-racer]

I don't believe in facts, I believe in probability.
what movie is your signature from?

[BMW-racer]

Just out of curiousity, do you have any evidence of them owning mass media stations?
I'm in the media/marketing industry and personally I've never been subjected to jews controlling the way my partners operate.

In fact, the only right-wing media source that I can easily see as being heavily biased is: FOX, and that's owned by Murdoch who is Australian by birth.
hey, by all means, prove me wrong. google and thorough research is everyone's right.
i used to work for The Ottawa Citizen, i would know who owned the major newspapers in Canada and North America in general.

[foreverconfused]

please quote me once where i've actually insulted the jews.

you've repeatedly implied jews are corrupt manipulators, and the way you're demonizing them is typical of anti-semitists.... therefore also typical of RD.

[Echelon]

hey, by all means, prove me wrong. google and thorough research is everyone's right.
i used to work for The Ottawa Citizen, i would know who owned the major newspapers in Canada and North America in general.
What I'm asking you to do is, if you do have any evidence of Jews numbing freedom of speech so it benefits them?

[Khanverse]

What I'm asking you to do is, if you do have any evidence of Jews numbing freedom of speech so it benefits them?

bro, they stopped a showing of "my name is rachel corrie" a play about a white girl from america getting smashed by an israeli buldozer...

bollyn.com

iamthewitness.com

4 REAL

[BMW-racer]

you've repeatedly implied jews are corrupt manipulators, and the way you're demonizing them is typical of anti-semitists.... therefore also typical of RD.
i call them the maipulators, yes. not corrupt.
manipulators of story telling, yeah?
they're telling the truth, The Iranian President did in fact visit the US. there's no lie about that. how they've told it, is another story.
that's not anti-sematic.
if you think it is, i really can't change your opinion. but i will not accept your accusition that i am anti-sematic, because i am not.

[foreverconfused]

i call them the maipulators, yes. not corrupt.
manipulators of story telling, yeah?
they're telling the truth, The Iranian President did in fact visit the US. there's no lie about that. how they've told it, is another story.
that's not anti-sematic.
if you think it is, i really can't change your opinion. but i will not accept your accusition that i am anti-sematic, because i am not.

I said you've made implications, BMW racer. And you obviously are an antisemitist, because no normal fool would go around making comments like that.

[BMW-racer]

What I'm asking you to do is, if you do have any evidence of Jews numbing freedom of speech so it benefits them?
i never said they're numbing the freedom of speech.
let's go back to my initial post:
- jews own the media.
- obviously, when you own something, you control the flow of it.
- they've mastered the art of story telling, because their news sell and influences the minds of our general public.
that is pretty much the message i've been projecting through this thread, it does not really stipulate or derive any conclusion with regards of limiting freedom of speech.

[BMW-racer]

I said you've made implications, BMW racer. And you obviously are an antisemitist, because no normal fool would go around making comments like that.
like i had said earlier, if that's your opinion, so be it.
so, then for me to say the white folks (majorly christians) in the porn industry are corrupting our generation from porn would mean i am anti-christ?
sure.

[BMW-racer]

bro, they stopped a showing of "my name is rachel corrie" a play about a white girl from america getting smashed by an israeli buldozer...

bollyn.com

iamthewitness.com

4 REAL
i checked out your site.
pretty interesting.

[foreverconfused]

like i had said earlier, if that's your opinion, so be it.
so, then for me to say the white folks (majorly christians) in the porn industry are corrupting our generation from porn would mean i am anti-christ?
sure.

haha, that's such an idiotic comparison.

[BMW-racer]

haha, that's such an idiotic comparison.
i am just using your logic.

[foreverconfused]

i am just using your logic.

you don't have the brains to understand anyone else's logic.

[BMW-racer]

you don't have the brains to understand anyone else's logic.
i guess not man, it seems like you're the only one that's brought this thread to 4 pages.

[Space-Cowboy]

it doesn't speak of anything.
you're lame for actually putting an effort of explaning something that's utter literary nonsense.
sorry, Cowboy, like i said, you screwed up on this one.


The only thing that's "utter literary nonsense" [whatever it is you want that phrase to mean], has been your rather idiotic comments regarding the Jewish people. It doesn't take much effort to shatter your arguments from the inside out.

N7R_YZiRlPs


QTpBAr5tH3c

HKRKOpjuPbw

j0UGrXQgFXk

[BMW-racer]

The only thing that's "utter literary nonsense" [whatever it is you want that phrase to mean], has been your rather idiotic comments regarding the Jewish people. It doesn't take much effort to shatter your arguments from the inside out.


post as much as you want. don't be slighted if i don't waste my time on you.
you've been the weakest poster in this thread, i am sorry, but you'll just have to live with that.
in our case, we're talking about your initial response, not what i had written.
what you wrote was lame, and will remain lame regardless of how many youtube videos you post.

[BMW-racer]

oh, yeah. i can post a few youtube videos as well. but they are beside my initial point.
EW2tujZISvc
NrLH6MlAFko
gV_R9iuP_SQ
ahmGanGudak
search youtube for anti-muslim, you'll come across quite a few. :)

[Space-Cowboy]

post as much as you want. don't be slighted if i don't waste my time on you.
you've been the weakest poster in this thread, i am sorry, but you'll just have to live with that.
in our case, we're talking about your initial response, not what i had written.
what you wrote was lame, and will remain lame regardless of how many youtube videos you post.


Only to you, because it laid your initial argument to rest.

[yussi]

Yeah the Media totally mess with our heads over all this kind of stuff, Thank God I chose NOT to go into the Media for a career

[BMW-racer]

Only to you, because it laid your initial argument to rest.
haha, and you keep trying to redeem yourself.
giddi up!

[aww_skeet_skeet]

tW1-_JmXQt0




ynWjYHP91gA




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU


wake up and realize what the fuck is going on in the world outside of your own....

and dont try to say this is propoganda... cause this is the real shit thats going on over there... and this is what those people have to live through everyday...

when your whole family is killed by the isreali army... and u have nothing else left in the world... I can understand why those people do suicide bombings....

[not-now]

LOL and the funniest thing is, the people attackin aint even jewish, they usually attack because, they are against muslims.

people bit my head off for sayin ..why cant u just stick to worryin about your own race? cuz i dont really see Jews giving a flyin fuck about poverty in India.


lol looks like your right it seems to be happening right now.

[Cunard]

this is where the major contrast in my two stories kick in.
if you look at the first story, there's no mention of race/religion. But in the second story, you see a picture of an evil Black guy being drawn (just because it has become a stereotype of blacks being the small-time thugs.).
Check out any newspaper now, and look at the Headlines "Five Muslim terrorists were caught attempting to suicide bomb." They could just label them as terrorists, but they have to mention the part that they're Muslims. Not Saudis, not middle-eastern, not Pakistanis, but MUSLIMS!
please tell me if this isn't the trend.

on the note of Iranian President, the whole reason why he was invited was to paint his picture evil - and it served that exact purpose. Earlier, the common-folks of the US weren't even aware of his name, now they see him as the EVIL!

probably because those 5 terrorists were fighting in the name of islam...just a guess


usually nationalist terrorists are labeled as well such as the farc or the basque...so naming religious based terrorists isnt wrong since calling a person who commits terrorism in the name of islam a muslim terrorist would be the correct term

as for the Iranian president being elected democraticaly...LOL...yeah if u consider banning pretty much the entire opposition from running....what was it like 3000 candidates from the opposition banned from running in the election :rolleyes:

[Cunard]

I'm a student at Columbia and I was there while he gave his little speech, it wasnt as bad as the media has hyped it up to be. Suddenly the whole world has to be some sort of pro-Isrealite and anti-dictatorship comodity in order to suffice as a true American patriot. It's ridiculous. The real reason they are so reluctant and intolerant towards him, is one main reason.. he's Muslim. That's all, the rest are just reasons to justify their rude behavior towards him. I went to a baseball game not to long ago, and was Boo'd by people for not standing up in the 7th ining strecth to sing "God bless America". I was like who cares!!! Where the hell is the individualism and freedom of speech now? When a lot of people want to show animosity towards Muslims they show use the "freedom of speech and press" bit, such as with the whole Rishdie guy, or the man who drew pictures of the Prophet... but when that group in notion wants to express something its like.. "they are not one of us"..

Personally, America is a capitalist prude.. Their main goal, capture any weak country. Counquer and divide.

This nation is nothing but one big Ethnic group with some warfare issues.


im sure defending a tyrant like the Iranian president....refusing to sing God Bless America.....while at the same time living in America, attending one of Americas top schools, and pretty much taking for granted everything America has to offer isnt helping to bridge borders between americans and muslims...but hey...its not your fault for being a stuck up bitch....or the Iranians Presidents fault even though there was that whole wipe another country off the face of the earth bit..............its the Jews fault :lol:

[Space-Cowboy]

haha, and you keep trying to redeem yourself.
giddi up!


Redeem? ... Do you even know what that word means?

[paulie walnuts]

politrickscool manipulation, gopal.

i like that.

[Irreligious Left]

like i had said earlier, if that's your opinion, so be it.
so, then for me to say the white folks (majorly christians) in the porn industry are corrupting our generation from porn would mean i am anti-christ?
sure.

Your analogy fails for making several truly unwarranted assumptions.

Lol @ "Christians" in porn.

[Pandora]

The easiest way to draw a picture in someone’s head is to tell him/her a
descriptive story. Having said that, there are so many ways to tell the same story, i.e.:

[Story 1]
I got robbed last night. The person took my 100 bucks.

[Story 2]
I was walking down the dark alley that is predominantly Black. Oh it was so scary, these black folks gawking at me as I walk down, their eyes glowed even whiter in the darkness. Then all of the sudden I got hit behind my neck, it was like the whole world came down on me. I fell on the floor right that instant, and tried to drag myself away from whatever hit me… But I couldn’t… something was holding me back… It was this monstrous face that is etched in my head for the rest of my life looking at me with his eyes filled with fierce animosity. He growled and snatched my purse, and looked at me as if he would eat me alive. I closed my eyes, praying to god that he does not rape me or kill me… I open my eyes, and he was gone. I ran home, and thanked god for saving me from this beast. This experience has changed me in a deep and profound way; I will never be able to sleep peacefully as the moment I close my eyes, I see those eyes glaring at me. I am traumatized for the rest of my life.
[/Story 2]

Aforementioned stories have no relevance to any truth or real life, but it just goes to show how the evil is depicted in the second story.
This is what the Jewish community realized when they were going through their establishment phase in North America and other parts of the world. They slowly took over any medium that was responsible for keeping people informed. Most of all the media, i.e. popular newspapers, TV/Radio channels, forums, and etc are owned by the Jewish folks.
Combine the flow of information with the most important thing in anyone’s life, money, and you have the absolute control over whatever you want to accomplish.

The latest example of this phenomenon is Iranian President’s visit to Columbia University. The newspapers declared, “The Evil has landed” the moment he landed in the U.S. This obviously made up minds of the Americans before this guy even got a chance to step out of the airplane.
He was labeled a cruel dictator (despite the fact that he was actually democratically elected) before he even got a chance to speak at the Columbia University. The newspapers’ headlines the next day read “he is a cruel dictator!”, “He denied the holocaust!”, “he caused an outcry in the Jewish Community!”, “Holocaust was real damn it, my parents lived through it!” and etc.
Yep. As sad as it may sound, it is the media that makes up our minds and decides our opinions for the most part. Too bad Jews control it - not because they are Jewish, but because they have mastered the art of story telling and have the power to manipulate thoughts to their advantage.

p.s. I wrote this, so I'd like to hear what people have to say of this.

I don't know what you're trying to achieve in your post. I do believe the media presents it's own exaggerated "truth" and isn't so innocent in their information flow but how is that partial to fault of the Jewish?

The Jews/Jewish Heritage also own/make up a significant part of Hollywood. I'm guessing they try to manipulate us through movies/music too; through Katie Holmes, Alicia Silverstone, Winona Ryder, Seth Green, Zac Efron, Ben Stiller, Jake Gyllenhaal, Scarlett Johanson, Rachel Bilson, Amanda Bynes, Mandy Moore, Bob Dylan, Natalie Portman, Neve Campbell, Adam Brody, Tori Spelling, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Shia LaBeouf, Jennifer Connelly, Daniel Radcliffe, Jerry Seinfeld, Harrison Ford, Brooke Burke, Olivia Newton-John, Kate Hudson, David Duchovny, Lisa Kudrow, Rachael Weisz, Gwyneth Paltrow, Ali G and Woody Allen. Plus many more I can't be bothered to name- they are all must be spawns to your conspiracy theory because they are Jewish/Jewish heritage and wealthy with some sort of power in the media.

[Khanverse]

i'm surprised people are actually debating this,

yes pandora, jews promote their own... if you look @ the zeitgeist and what is considered morally okay now compared with before you can see the disgusting talmudic influence... "they" wanna destroy human morality and continue making us go towards Asfallasafileen...

this is what ahmadinejad was talkin about @ the UN when he talked about objectification of women:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Ycf4dF2ew8"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Ycf4dF2ew8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

^around 4 Min

btw,

watch that new movie superbad, yea it's funny but do you notice how truly sick it is? look @ all the actors, ALL, i mean it's crazy people don't even notice.... it's extremely depraved and that's the talmud in action...

check this out:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/whois.html

and check out my blogs here:

http://www.myspace.com/khanverse

[Pandora]

Jeez. The thread maker and you do sound anti-semitic.

If the Jews are in positions of wealth and power, it is only because they have earned their own right through their hard work to get where they are now. The thread maker has stereotyped an entire race with characteristics that are independent of race and creed.

What Ahmadinejad had said in the past about an obviously Jewish-oriented country, was hasty, unnecessary [in his self proclaimed goal for peace in Palestine] and is easily viewable as anti-semitic. He quoted a man who has questionable anti-semitic/biased views. He stated that Israel should be wiped off the map and Jews relocated to Europe and not to mention stupidly denying the Holocaust based on the scientific principle we should question everything even notable events from the past which should be open for interpretation. I can only imagine what type of response the Islamic community would give if Ariel Sharon said similar things about Palestine/Iran, then denied the war in Iraq and the "60 years sufferings" that Palestine has faced based on the same scientific principle.

All this didn't strengthen his point for peace for Palestine or prove that he has equal respect for Israel in such comments. His convictions are testimony to his poor words.

[BMW-racer]

Jeez. The thread maker and you do sound anti-semitic.

If the Jews are in positions of wealth and power, it is only because they have earned their own right through their hard work to get where they are now. The thread maker has stereotyped an entire race with characteristics that are independent of race and creed.

What Ahmadinejad had said in the past about an obviously Jewish-oriented country, was hasty, unnecessary [in his self proclaimed goal for peace in Palestine] and is easily viewable as anti-semitic. He quoted a man who has questionable anti-semitic/biased views. He stated that Israel should be wiped off the map and Jews relocated to Europe and not to mention stupidly denying the Holocaust based on the scientific principle we should question everything even notable events from the past which should be open for interpretation. I can only imagine what type of response the Islamic community would give if Ariel Sharon said similar things about Palestine/Iran, then denied the war in Iraq and the "60 years sufferings" that Palestine has faced based on the same scientific principle.

All this didn't strengthen his point for peace for Palestine or prove that he has equal respect for Israel in such comments. His convictions are testimony to his poor words.
i respect your opinions. but please, leave me out of this anti-semitic bit.
my initial post is all facts, please prove me wrong otherwise.
i welcome your opinions, but what i will not tolerate is me being called an anti-semi when i mean no malice towards the Jewish Community as a whole.
just prove my initial post wrong, i'll welcome it. i instigated this debate so i can learn from it, as well.

[BMW-racer]

You're proving the point of this thread with your opening statement. Why must he be an anti-semetic because he disagrees, no matter how vehemently, with jewish policies? This isn't about how they established themselves within these positions of power so much as it is what they do with the power that they have.

and Ariel Sharon and his ilk have a long record of anti-semetic slurs directed towards palestinians, and arabs in general. and I say anti-semetic because arabs are semites too, in fact, they are more "semetic" than the bulk of worldwide jewry. BUT, you wouldn't know that, because you think the only semite on earth is the JEW. it's not hard to figure out why that is.
word! this alone just proves how people just take things for granted and not learn anything beyond the scope of what's given to them on a platter.

[Space-Cowboy]

You're proving the point of this thread with your opening statement. Why must he be an anti-semetic because he disagrees, no matter how vehemently, with jewish policies? This isn't about how they established themselves within these positions of power so much as it is what they do with the power that they have.

and Ariel Sharon and his ilk have a long record of anti-semetic slurs directed towards palestinians, and arabs in general. and I say anti-semetic because arabs are semites too, in fact, they are more "semetic" than the bulk of worldwide jewry. BUT, you wouldn't know that, because you think the only semite on earth is the JEW. it's not hard to figure out why that is.

Just for the record then, I/we can criticize Shariah [Islamic 'policies'] all I/we want and not be labelled "Islamophobe"? Correct?

[BMW-racer]

Just for the record then, I/we can criticize Shariah [Islamic 'policies'] all I/we want and not be labelled "Islamophobe"? Correct?
correction: this is not an islamic thread - you cannot ride on the back of DasJa here and go on with your racist views but put on a neutral front at the same time.
please show yourself out, and wait for another opportunity to "act" intelligent.

[aww_skeet_skeet]

tW1-_JmXQt0




ynWjYHP91gA




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU


wake up and realize what the fuck is going on in the world outside of your own....


when your whole family is killed by the isreali army... and u have nothing else left in the world... I can understand why those people do suicide bombings....


that right there proves..... bmw racers whole point...

[Space-Cowboy]

correction: this is not an islamic thread - you cannot ride on the back of DasJa here and go on with your racist views but put on a neutral front as the same time.
please show yourself out, and wait for another opportunity to "act" intelligent.

Calling me a racist after your anti-semetic rant, yea that's rich. Anyway, I was of course speaking about future threads. I'm not riding anyone's 'back'. I'm revealing to you your own hipocrisy.

[Pandora]

i respect your opinions. but please, leave me out of this anti-semitic bit.
my initial post is all facts, please prove me wrong otherwise.
i welcome your opinions, but what i will not tolerate is me being called an anti-semi when i mean no malice towards the Jewish Community as a whole.
just prove my initial post wrong, i'll welcome it. i instigated this debate so i can learn from it, as well.

I left out a lot of other stuff for brevity but I wanted to just address the point that he has caused this poor reception upon himself. I'm not sure if what I have to say is what you would like to hear.

It may not of been your intention but it has definitely come out that way in your original post and especially, the other guy who is babbling about some rubbish and speculating on Jews as a whole race. Everyone knows the past tensions of Islam and Judaism and how much animosity they have towards each other.

Yes, there are facts but you are placing these loose facts and applying it ridiculously to a whole cultural group. You are claiming speculation as facts - which is entirely wrong. You also fail to see what the man has originally said in haste, the newspapers aren't really exaggerating much, although I do believe it was unfair how they nailed him before he had a chance to speak. However, I don't blame them BASED on his past hasty words. It was expected.

My point was the fact that he has said such comments in such a degree in the past, is what has branded him those headlines concerning the Jewish. Yes the media sensationalises stories, which jew/non-jew media company doesn't? You can go back to his original speeches and see what he has said yourself. It's open for anyone's interpretation.

Now to his seemingly liberal and intelligent demur in his latest speech @ Columbia University. Here are also little facts on Iran, the government is corrupt. His people have no rights as he claims they have and should have. His people can't even celebrate a fucking birthday or wedding nor do they have the right to drink alcohol. I have been told by a reliable source who has lived there all their life, that the people pay the Police to shut their mouths so they can enjoy festivities.

My source also claims how hard it is to gain a higher education. Just look at the the population of Iran and look at how many people are accepted into Universities there? Not to mention look at how many students do the Universities cater for? Does that sound like a government of a country that is fair and liberal to you and who allows people to succeed and gain knowledge for themselves?

I saw the whole speech for myself instead of reading a few newspaper articles.

When Ahmadinejad was asked , "Do you believe Israel should be wiped off the whole map" He replied "We in Iran love all people." When pressed to answer yes or no, he failed to give a simple answer of no.

When asked about the rights of gays and the persecution of gays in Iran. His ridiculous reply was "We don't have gays in Iran."

Now tell me, why should I listen to Ahmadinejad? He has contradicted himself in his own speech.

People also tend to think their own shit doesn't smell. Ahmadinejad is just another finger pointer, like any other Politician. He maybe just a mere puppet/face of this whole situation.

Now tell me how are these so called Jewish-owned Newspapers are manipulating what he said and done to a gross amount that deters the facts at hand?

With all that said I am not cheering on the American government [who have been bullies and greedy] for what they have done in this whole catastrophe nor Israel for their equal part in this.

Israel and Palestine are equally to blame for their quarrels, they both can't let the past go and move on in peace.

People have paid the price in both Israel and Palestine, this however doesn't give anyone the right to marginalise a whole racial group, Islamic or Jew whether that is intentional or not. I don't do it with Muslims and what has happened in 9/11 nor should you say such things about Jews.

[Pandora]

You're proving the point of this thread with your opening statement. Why must he be an anti-semetic because he disagrees, no matter how vehemently, with jewish policies? This isn't about how they established themselves within these positions of power so much as it is what they do with the power that they have.

and Ariel Sharon and his ilk have a long record of anti-semetic slurs directed towards palestinians, and arabs in general. and I say anti-semetic because arabs are semites too, in fact, they are more "semetic" than the bulk of worldwide jewry. BUT, you wouldn't know that, because you think the only semite on earth is the JEW. it's not hard to figure out why that is.

The so called power they are using to manipulate and lie to us is only HIS speculation based on weak facts which automatically makes him seem anti-jew. It's a very weak point when you consider all the cold hard facts from the words of Ahmadinejad.

Show me what has Ariel Sharon said? I want his original speeches. I think there would be as much out cry if Ariel Sharon said such slurs in that degree to wipe out a whole country and to mock a significant historical event that has affected many peoples families and lives.

You can't give me this childish notion "I said it because he said it first so therefore it's right." What you have inferred by that notions proves what Ahmadinejad said was indeed a slur and also does prove that the Newspapers have presented some truth in their convictions of the man.

[BMW-racer]

Calling me a racist after your anti-semetic rant, yea that's rich. Anyway, I was of course speaking about future threads. I'm not riding anyone's 'back'. I'm revealing to you your own hipocrisy.
hypocrisy*
listen mang, i made a monkey outta you in the past few threads.
this trend will only continue, yet you keep coming back for more.
you messed up, everyone does... get over it!
your useless input isn't working here.

[King Ghidra]

I'm a student at Columbia and I was there while he gave his little speech, it wasnt as bad as the media has hyped it up to be. Suddenly the whole world has to be some sort of pro-Isrealite and anti-dictatorship comodity in order to suffice as a true American patriot. It's ridiculous. The real reason they are so reluctant and intolerant towards him, is one main reason.. he's Muslim. That's all, the rest are just reasons to justify their rude behavior towards him. I went to a baseball game not to long ago, and was Boo'd by people for not standing up in the 7th ining strecth to sing "God bless America". I was like who cares!!! Where the hell is the individualism and freedom of speech now? When a lot of people want to show animosity towards Muslims they show use the "freedom of speech and press" bit, such as with the whole Rishdie guy, or the man who drew pictures of the Prophet... but when that group in notion wants to express something its like.. "they are not one of us"..

Personally, America is a capitalist prude.. Their main goal, capture any weak country. Counquer and divide.

This nation is nothing but one big Ethnic group with some warfare issues.

So you planning on getting out of america?

[BMW-racer]

I left out a lot of other stuff for brevity but I wanted to just address the point that he has caused this poor reception upon himself. I'm not sure if what I have to say is what you would like to hear.

It may not of been your intention but it has definitely come out that way in your original post and especially, the other guy who is babbling about some rubbish and speculating on Jews as a whole race. Everyone knows the past tensions of Islam and Judaism and how much animosity they have towards each other.

Yes, there are facts but you are placing these loose facts and applying it ridiculously to a whole cultural group. You are claiming speculation as facts - which is entirely wrong. You also fail to see what the man has originally said in haste, the newspapers aren't really exaggerating much, although I do believe it was unfair how they nailed him before he had a chance to speak. However, I don't blame them BASED on his past hasty words. It was expected.

My point was the fact that he has said such comments in such a degree in the past, is what has branded him those headlines concerning the Jewish. Yes the media sensationalises stories, which jew/non-jew media company doesn't? You can go back to his original speeches and see what he has said yourself. It's open for anyone's interpretation.

Now to his seemingly liberal and intelligent demur in his latest speech @ Columbia University. Here are also little facts on Iran, the government is corrupt. His people have no rights as he claims they have and should have. His people can't even celebrate a fucking birthday or wedding nor do they have the right to drink alcohol. I have been told by a reliable source who has lived there all their life, that the people pay the Police to shut their mouths so they can enjoy festivities.

My source also claims how hard it is to gain a higher education. Just look at the the population of Iran and look at how many people are accepted into Universities there? Not to mention look at how many students do the Universities cater for? Does that sound like a government of a country that is fair and liberal to you and who allows people to succeed and gain knowledge for themselves?

I saw the whole speech for myself instead of reading a few newspaper articles.

When Ahmadinejad was asked , "Do you believe Israel should be wiped off the whole map" He replied "We in Iran love all people." When pressed to answer yes or no, he failed to give a simple answer of no.

When asked about the rights of gays and the persecution of gays in Iran. His ridiculous reply was "We don't have gays in Iran."

Now tell me, why should I listen to Ahmadinejad? He has contradicted himself in his own speech.

People also tend to think their own shit doesn't smell. Ahmadinejad is just another finger pointer, like any other Politician. He maybe just a mere puppet/face of this whole situation.

Now tell me how are these so called Jewish-owned Newspapers are manipulating what he said and done to a gross amount that deters the facts at hand?

With all that said I am not cheering on the American government [who have been bullies and greedy] for what they have done in this whole catastrophe nor Israel for their equal part in this.

Israel and Palestine are equally to blame for their quarrels, they both can't let the past go and move on in peace.

People have paid the price in both Israel and Palestine, this however doesn't give anyone the right to marginalise a whole racial group, Islamic or Jew whether that is intentional or not. I don't do it with Muslims and what has happened in 9/11 nor should you say such things about Jews.
that's pretty much how it is in every muslim country.
with that logic, the whole middle-east (with the exception of few), Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan should all be U.S.'s target for liberation.

[BMW-racer]

My source also claims how hard it is to gain a higher education. Just look at the the population of Iran and look at how many people are accepted into Universities there? Not to mention look at how many students do the Universities cater for? Does that sound like a government of a country that is fair and liberal to you and who allows people to succeed and gain knowledge for themselves?

not every country has a luxury of higher education. it is unfortunate, but that is how it is.
countries in the middle-east as rich as Saudia Arabia do not have enough "credible" institutions of higher learning. you are considered a gift if you are qualified from an international institution.
so really, getting a higher education anywhere in that region, with the exception of few countries, is a luxury.

[BMW-racer]

that right there proves..... bmw racers whole point...
don't bother bro.
they'll call you anti-semi for pointing out the obvious.

[Pandora]

that's pretty much how it is in every muslim country.
with that logic, the whole middle-east (with the exception of few), Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan should all be U.S.'s target for liberation.

America should stay out of it, that's what I believe. They butt in too many things. That is a separate issue and still that doesn't even deter the prejudiced words Ahmadinejad has said against Jews. Defending him and his words is like me defending Hitler's persecution of Jews and then denying I have anti-jew Nazi/Hitler sympathies.

The point of highlighting that is that show his speech @ Colombia is contradictory. He speaks lavishly about truth, freedom and the quest for either but his own people are suppressed. It makes his character even more unbelievable to add to his previous slurs.

He wants to help Palestine and wants to promote peace? Why doesn't he want to help Lebanon where Muslims and Christians alike are getting killed by the Hezbollah?

[Arshy]

Why do most people get so anal about muslims having a view?

I mean they try to airbrush their own views to defend themselves and jews at the same time, and when this juggling tends to fail, they jump on the ever so popular bandwagon of "let's hate the muzzies".

Just accept the fact that muslims and views can go hand in hand, and not all muslims act out the zionist fantasies.

[Pandora]

not every country has a luxury of higher education. it is unfortunate, but that is how it is.
countries in the middle-east as rich as Saudia Arabia do not have enough "credible" institutions of higher learning. you are considered a gift if you are qualified from an international institution.
so really, getting a higher education anywhere in that region, with the exception of few countries, is a luxury.

We are talking about IRAN, please tell me why are there no credible institutions of higher learning at least in Iran [as you claim there isn't]?

He admitted in his speech that Iran has had to invest in billions of dollars unnecessarily because of UN sanctions on "their quest to develop nuclear arms and further their so called scientific technologies". So funds is not an issue. What about giving the freedom of education for his own people? Why is he making it hard for them to obtain it?

If he truly believes that education and freedom of knowledge = truth, why is he suppressing his own people?

[Pandora]

How is it "speculation" when there are numerous books that have been written on the subject with massive documentation. Are you dismissing these assertions based on intelligent analysis, or are you just parroting what you hear on the media? again, there is a book that just hit the the shelves during the week prior which deals with exactly this...it's called "the israel lobby," and it wasn't written by an arab, or a muslim, it was written by two american academics.

and why do you keep bringing this back to ahmadinjenad? he doesn't represent me, and I highly doubt he represents the threadstarter either. by bringing up ariel sharon, I was just making a point. I'll give you a few quotes to defend:

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

there are tons more, I but I only like to quote with sources, and my books are at home. But honestly, can you defend those statements?

You have not presented any of them to me nor has the thread maker. I do not judge what is not presented to me but only the words I have read myself and what you have presented with sources, so please don't put words in my mouth. There are a thousand books on UFOs and conspiracy theories, should I believe in aliens purely because they were published by scholars/scientists?

The fact the thread maker has used the news on Ahmadinjenad as a means to convey his speculation that Jews apparently control our thoughts through the media is what I'm basing it on. Have you even read what the man has said for yourself, before you looked into those conspiracy theories/so intelligent analysis against Jews.

It makes no sense that the threadmaker claims the newspapers belittled Ahmadinjenad because he was Muslim and they were Jewish. I can even be so rash and point out that the majority of people defending Ahmadinjenad and this conspiracy against Jews are only Muslims.

When you quote and defend a racist it's quite obvious to many people that you share the same/similar ideology.

I'm not here to defend Israel, I'm not defending and quoting Sharon and marginalising the Islamic people of Palestine. I'm here to dismantle the unnecessary prejudices that people are trying to present as fact when it defies logic and the truth of the matter. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You people keep acting defensive and keep trying to infer Palestine is so innocent and is a pure victim in all this. The people of both Israel and Palestine are innocent victims in this religious and political war, BOTH governments are corrupt and are to blame.

Israel is not the only offender, they didn't fight themselves. You have no right to point blame at the whole Jewish race based on what has happened in Palestine same goes for the Jews when it comes to the Islamic community.

Iran probably has its own agenda, if it had cared about the peace of its brothers and sisters they would of helped Lebanon.

[BMW-racer]

We are talking about IRAN, please tell me why are there no credible institutions of higher learning at least in Iran [as you claim there isn't]?

He admitted in his speech that Iran has had to invest in billions of dollars unnecessarily because of UN sanctions on "their quest to develop nuclear arms and further their so called scientific technologies". So funds is not an issue. What about giving the freedom of education for his own people? Why is he making it hard for them to obtain it?

If he truly believes that education and freedom of knowledge = truth, why is he suppressing his own people?
it's a different system though, you have to understand different countries put different value on different things. it has nothing to do with freedom, i don't think anyone is putting a gun to any iranian's head for going to school. people are "free" to be educated. if the education is not readily available, it does not mean it is deterring anyone's freedom of education.
p.s. i was speaking of saudia arabia and that whole region in general - not Iran specifically.
i don't know enough about Iran's academic infrustructure to speak on behalf of it.
i am sure there are plenty of credible institutions of higher learning in Iran, but your argument is that there aren't enough to cater to whole Iran's population. well, that's just unforunate that there aren't, perhaps this will change in the future, just as it did for other countries in the east of that region, i.e. India and Pakistan.

[Pandora]

it's a different system though, you have to understand different countries put different value on different things. it has nothing to do with freedom, i don't think anyone is putting a gun to any iranian's head for going to school. people are "free" to be educated. if the education is not readily available, it does not mean it is deterring anyone's freedom of education.
p.s. i was speaking of saudia arabia and that whole region in general - not Iran specifically.
i don't know about Iran's academic infrustructure to speak on behalf of it.
i am sure there are plenty of credible institutions of higher learning in Iran, but your argument is that there aren't enough to cater to whole Iran's population. well, that's just unforunate that there aren't, perhaps this will change in the future, just as it did for other countries in the east of that region, i.e. India and Pakistan.

I really do think you are selectively piecing together what you want to hear instead of the whole picture.

My argument is that they have the resources [$$$] and infrastructure yet still make it unnecessarily difficult for the qualified Iranian people to have access to higher education. Instead, he has his own agenda in funding his quest for making nuclear arms.

I mentioned the population [approximately 70 million] so you can tie in how many people are able to attend top universities in Iran [each has only a few thousand people]. Don't tell me that a majority of them are dumb and couldn't make the mark to get in.

In the president's speech he is talking about people thinking for themselves through education which is a vehicle for freedom and truth? Completely contradictory.

You haven't even touched upon the things he said about gays in Iran.

[BMW-racer]

I really do think you are selectively piecing together what you want to hear instead of the whole picture.

My argument is that they have the resources [$$$] and infrastructure yet still make it unnecessarily difficult for the qualified Iranian people to have access to higher education. Instead, he has his own agenda in funding his quest for making nuclear arms.

I mentioned the population [approximately 70 million] so you can tie in how many people are able to attend top universities in Iran [each has only a few thousand people]. Don't tell me that a majority of them are dumb and couldn't make the mark to get in.

In the president's speech he is talking about people thinking for themselves through education which is a vehicle for freedom and truth? Completely contradictory.

You haven't even touched upon the things he said about gays in Iran.
again, not to single this out, but if you think Iranians are being forced not to attend schools, i would think that's false conception.
i do not think Iran would be in 1 piece rightnow if that was the case.
my co-worker is Persian, and i walked upto her to discuss this.
she claims that she got her degree in Engineering through a University in Iran. i asked her whether her freedom of being educated was restricted in any sense or whether the government is making it harder for the common-folks to be educated, and she said i've been watching too much television. lol

[BMW-racer]

You haven't even touched upon the things he said about gays in Iran.
there is nothing to be said about gays. gays are frowned upon in Islam, and in Christianity too for that matter. Western societies are finally embracing homosexuality as a norm, that's fine and dandy for the homosexuals. but just because it is accepted here as a norm, do not expect it to be a norm everywhere else.
every country has its own set of values that defines its culture. Iran is an Islamic Republic and if the laws do not permit homosexuality, then it cannot be projected outwardly.
him saying that there are no homos in Iran simply means no one would dare to step up as a homosexual. his answer was in response of the accusition of him presecuting the gay community with cruel punishments. And you know what? a lot of the times, where there are constraints put in place, people do not want to think outside their sexual orientation - mostly because of the societal norms.
Elton John had to come to Canada to get married, I believe.. or one of those celebrity homos. it was just because they couldn't get married in the UK.
well, what have you to say about that? isn't that limiting the freedom of the homo-sexuals?

[Space-Cowboy]

hypocrisy*
listen mang, i made a monkey outta you in the past few threads.
this trend will only continue, yet you keep coming back for more.
you messed up, everyone does... get over it!
your useless input isn't working here.

Correcting a typo certainly doesn't put you in any position to make a 'monkey' out of anyone. The fact is, I've shattered your posts time and again, and now everything you're saying is sounding more and more pathetic.
Fact: You're doing everything you're accusing Jews of doing.
Fact: You don't actually have any real FACTS to back up your argument of what you think Jews are doing.
Fact: Your can't seem to understand that your argument contains a plethora of holes.


At this point, you essentially don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.

[BMW-racer]

Correcting a typo certainly doesn't put you in any position to make a 'monkey' out of anyone. The fact is, I've shattered your posts time and again, and now everything you're saying is sounding more and more pathetic.
Fact: You're doing everything you're accusing Jews of doing.
Fact: You don't actually have any real FACTS to back up your argument of what you think Jews are doing.
Fact: Your can't seem to understand that your argument contains a plethora of holes.


At this point, you essentially don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.
you haven't.
you never have, and you never can.
i made a monkey out of you in the other Iranian President thread, and I've done the same here by calling you out on your lame attempts.
now stop talking to me man! don't you get the idea, you're not wanted. jeez!
please... wait for another opportunity to make anti-muslim remarks riding DasJa's back.

[Space-Cowboy]

you haven't.
you never have, and you never can.
i made a monkey out of you in the other Iranian President thread, and I've done the same here by calling you out on your lame attempts.
now stop talking to me man! don't you get the idea, you're not wanted. jeez!
please... wait for another opportunity to make anti-muslim remarks riding DasJa's back.

Would you like to point out the exact post and exact line where I made an anti-Muslim remark? If you can't, kindly shut up.

And I've always owned your arguments, and I always will. You don't know how to argue, and you never will learn because you seem to have the comprehension capabilities of a two year old.

[*vag*]

i dont understand how were only pertaining to the Jewish community, every community tends to do that.

[BMW-racer]

Would you like to point out the exact post and exact line where I made an anti-Muslim remark? If you can't, kindly shut up.

And I've always owned your arguments, and I always will. You don't know how to argue, and you never will learn because you seem to have the comprehension capabilities of a two year old.
haha, let me jut end this by your famous pathetic but predictable:
DasJa :cheers:

now, please get the message. i'd think with your age, a person would pick up the idea that he's not wanted and will be ridiculed further for coming back.
you're becoming like a bad smell that follows everywhere.

[BMW-racer]

If you, as you say, reserve judgement until you have read things yourself, then perhaps you are engaging in selective reading. You are comparing aliens and ufo's to real-life "earthly" issues, and things which can be observed and experienced first-hand, and I'm sorry, but I find that a bit absurd.

I am not one of those who deny the holocaust -I'm of the opinion that it did happen, and yes, there was a movement that existed in germany with the aim of ultimately exterminating the european jewish population...the number of victims, whether it was 6,000,000, 4,000,000, 10,000,000,etc. makes no difference to me, because a genocide is a genocide, no matter how you slice it. NOW, since you just made this statement:

There are a thousand books on UFOs and conspiracy theories, should I believe in aliens purely because they were published by scholars/scientists?

...my question to you is, why do YOU accept the holocaust as a historical fact? Is it because "scholars/scientists" have proven it to be so? Of course, and I highly doubt you set aside a large chunk of your free-time to delve deeper into the matter - you've just accepted the issue on face value, right or wrong. Now, let's take this same statement of yours and substitute "ufo's and conspiracy theories," and "aliens" with "the jewish holocaust:"

There are a thousand books on the jewish holocaust, should I believe in the jewish holocaust purely because they were published by scholars/scientists?

This is essentially Ahmadinejad's position on the matter, and while I disagree with his views, I don't think it's fair to call him an "anti-semite," or the "next hitler," simply because of these views. Do you think this is fair? If you do, then please present a clear reason outlining exactly WHY you feel that way. You also said:

I can even be so rash and point out that the majority of people defending Ahmadinjenad and this conspiracy against Jews are only Muslims.

Yes, that is rash, and wholly innacurate to boot. What basis do you have to make such an accusation?

When you quote and defend a racist it's quite obvious to many people that you share the same/similar ideology.

What proof do you have that ahmadinjenad is a racist? Before you answer that question, please define the term "racism" for us, if you don't mind.

I'm not here to defend Israel, I'm not defending and quoting Sharon and marginalising the Islamic people of Palestine. I'm here to dismantle the unnecessary prejudices that people are trying to present as fact when it defies logic and the truth of the matter.

No offense, but you aren't dismantling anything but your own position in this thread by using skewed logic. You say you aren't defending Israel, but it's painfully obvious that that is exactly what you're doing...if somebody made a thread "attacking" palestinians, would you be so quick to chime in, come to their aid, and offer all kinds of arguments as to why that particular threadstarter is a "racist," like you are doing here? I highly doubt it. I don't mind you stating your views, but don't be dishonest, it isn't very befitting.

You people keep acting defensive and keep trying to infer Palestine is so innocent and is a pure victim in all this. The people of both Israel and Palestine are innocent victims in this religious and political war, BOTH governments are corrupt and are to blame.

Whenever you begin to analyze a problem or disease, you first seek out to identify the ROOT CAUSE of that problem or disease...and the root cause of the particular problem in question is the establishment of the zionist regime in palestine, and all of the illegal occupying that went on/goes on along with it. Unfortunately, people like YOU choose to skip the CAUSE and go right into the effects and then throw labels on people any way you see fit...sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
that was great read.
or shall i... SugarHill :cheers:

[BMW-racer]

lol word....spacey you cool with me, but what were you thinking co-signing the hogwash your man was trying to spread in that other thread?
that's his technique mang. he wants to pose as neutral because he thinks he's up in line to be a next mod.
yet, he cannot control his anti views, so he rides on DasJa's back.
i give props to DasJa for being straight up and not hypocritical... hey, you hate muslims, be open and straight up about it. hiding behind someone's back and shooting from someone else's shoulder isn't attractive. it's just lame!

[Space-Cowboy]

haha, let me jut end this by your famous pathetic but predictable:
DasJa :cheers:

now, please get the message. i'd think with your age, a person would pick up the idea that he's not wanted and will be ridiculed further for coming back.
you're becoming like a bad smell that follows everywhere.


I'm still waiting for where you point out *I* made an anti-Muslim remark. None? Didn't think so. Kindly consider yourself owned yet again.

[not-now]

lol to the people accusing the thread maker of being anti-semetic do you guys think ariel sharon is anti-semetic too ? because he's said the same thing.
Oh and btw an american politician recently said she HATES ALL IRANIANS why are you people keeping quiet about that ? oh wait you didn't know because it wasn't given much attention since you probably don't know anything other than what the media tells you ,guess bmw racer is being proven right.

[BMW-racer]

I'm still waiting for where you point out *I* made an anti-Muslim remark. None? Didn't think so. Kindly consider yourself owned yet again.
ewww. go away already, you old creepo.

[Space-Cowboy]

lol word....spacey you cool with me, but what were you thinking co-signing the hogwash your man was trying to spread in that other thread?


He's a brotha. But my own comments are my own. I have not made any anti-Muslim remarks.

[BMW-racer]

lol to the people accusing the thread maker of being anti-semetic do you guys think ariel sharon is anti-semetic too ? because he's said the same thing.
Oh and btw an american politician recently said she HATES ALL IRANIANS why are you people keeping quiet about that ? oh wait you didn't know because it wasn't given much attention since you probably don't know anything other than what the media tells you ,guess bmw racer is being proven right.
there wasn't anything wrong with what i said initially.
facts are facts, if people want to look away from 'em. well, it aint changing nothin'.

[Space-Cowboy]

lol to the people accusing the thread maker of being anti-semetic do you guys think ariel sharon is anti-semetic too ? because he's said the same thing.
Oh and btw an american politician recently said she HATES ALL IRANIANS why are you people keeping quiet about that ? oh wait you didn't know because it wasn't given much attention since you probably don't know anything other than what the media tells you ,guess bmw racer is being proven right.

I think Sharon is racist and corrupt, I always have. However, two wrongs don't quite make a right in this case.

[Space-Cowboy]

ewww. go away already, you old creepo.

Creepo? Proof again that you're two years old.

[not-now]

I think Sharon is racist and corrupt, I always have. However, two wrongs don't quite make a right in this case.


fair enough

[BMW-racer]

poor space-cowboy had to msg mods to junk this thread to save his face.
tsk. tsk.

[Space-Cowboy]

poor space-cowboy had to msg mods to junk this thread to save his face.
tsk. tsk.


I actually msged no one. Again you clutch at straws. Again you fail miserably.

[Pandora]

If you, as you say, reserve judgement until you have read things yourself, then perhaps you are engaging in selective reading. You are comparing aliens and ufo's to real-life "earthly" issues, and things which can be observed and experienced first-hand, and I'm sorry, but I find that a bit absurd.

The only reason why I compared UFO's with your Jewish conspiracy theory is because they fall in the same boat under speculation NOT FACTS. Hahaha, an “earthly issue” is your only excuse to back up your poor logic? Please, people have claimed first hand accounts of UFO and aliens too. The PROBABILITY of these facts being true with other evidence is dismally weak as is yours.

You have not provided me any FACTS/SOURCES on this Jewish conspiracy except telling me a few books have been written by SCHOLARS to back up the threadmaker’s poor argument he presented with the use of the racist Ahmadinjenad. Hence why I pointed out the silly logic you used to persuade me.

I am not one of those who deny the holocaust -I'm of the opinion that it did happen, and yes, there was a movement that existed in germany with the aim of ultimately exterminating the european jewish population...the number of victims, whether it was 6,000,000, 4,000,000, 10,000,000,etc. makes no difference to me, because a genocide is a genocide, no matter how you slice it. NOW, since you just made this statement:

Oh I see… you personally don't deny the Holocaust [and show no solid proof why you do so] and yet you're asking me why I believe it's true? You’re paralleling the same illogical behaviour the Iranian president has undertaken to cover up his racist slurs. This is hypocrisy on your part and it dismantles your entire contradictory argument concerning that point. It’s weak.

...my question to you is, why do YOU accept the holocaust as a historical fact? Is it because "scholars/scientists" have proven it to be so? Of course, and I highly doubt you set aside a large chunk of your free-time to delve deeper into the matter - you've just accepted the issue on face value, right or wrong. Now, let's take this same statement of yours and substitute "ufo's and conspiracy theories," and "aliens" with "the jewish holocaust:"

There is well-documented proof that the Holocaust has happened and a significant amount of people who are from that era [from both sides, Nazi and Jew] of time. Both sides have given 1st hand accounts that are consistent with events which grant it probable enough to be certain. I’ve seen documentaries on Jewish concentration camps and read quite a bit of literature for myself to see how inflammatory Ahmadinjenad ‘comments’ are. Please don’t question me on that ridiculous point any further. We both agree it’s true.


This is essentially Ahmadinejad's position on the matter, and while I disagree with his views, I don't think it's fair to call him an "anti-semite," or the "next hitler," simply because of these views. Do you think this is fair? If you do, then please present a clear reason outlining exactly WHY you feel that way.

You said:
When you quote and defend a racist it's quite obvious to many people that you share the same/similar ideology.

What proof do you have that ahmadinjenad is a racist? Before you answer that question, please define the term "racism" for us, if you don't mind.




A legal definition:
According to UN International Conventions, "the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

Source: http://www.hri.org/docs/ICERD66.html

Even when man landed on the moon people have made up a range of bullshit conspiracy theories to deny the fact that event happened. Your Jewish one seems to me no less/more in logic as this conspiracy. Should we challenge that man actually went to the moon because a bunch of people claim it never happened, no matter how stupid and ridiculous it sounds? That is in par with Ahmadinjenad words. It was unnecessary on his part to even bring up which adds to the malice in his words further.

His words were not innocent, his words were inflammatory and racist. It was basically a backhanded insult. He stated he wanted to eradicate a country full of Jews and then denied a significant historical event that is partial towards the suffering and prejudiced of Jews. His words may have been seemingly innocent out of context if his true purpose was to question the notion of historical events being fact but his former comment puts it in a context of malice and racism towards Jews. I need not prove this further. If you fail to see this, I’m sure we can all see your prejudices and see why your logic fails.

Your only defence is finger pointing, that Ariel Sharon said similar things which irregardless does NOT make Ahmadinjenad right.

The threadmaker’s defence is that all Jews control and manipulate in newspapers and his proof is that they are labelling Ahmadinjenad all sorts of names because based on the fact they’re Jewish and he’s Muslim. Not the case, people have gone back to his original words and have found it no less than the truth, the man is a racist. Talk about selectiveness on the threadmaker's and your parts.

You also said: I can even be so rash and point out that the majority of people defending Ahmadinjenad and this conspiracy against Jews are only Muslims.

Yes, that is rash, and wholly innacurate to boot. What basis do you have to make such an accusation?

I’m pointing out a simple RASH fact in this thread, as others have cheered on their RASH fact that only Non-Muslims are ONLY defending Jews therefore all our comments and opinions are flawed. It seems some of you people are presenting that the rest of who don’t agree, in a light of some sort of ridiculous, overly defensive, anti-islamic conspiracy. Thus only leading them to cover their eyes to the weak points of their arguments.

The fact all of you [namely Muslims] came to the threadmakers defence by overlooking the reasons why I called him anti-jew is rash too as it was probably a derivative of that original rash statement of that only "non-muslims defending are Jews". You people didn’t even read what I and others have detailed to explain why I find this inflammatory and anti-jew.

He is defending a racist and agreeing to Ahmadinjenad’s prejudiced views, therefore that comment about both of them being anti-jew holds for them both.

You said: I'm not here to defend Israel, I'm not defending and quoting Sharon and marginalising the Islamic people of Palestine. I'm here to dismantle the unnecessary prejudices that people are trying to present as fact when it defies logic and the truth of the matter.

No offense, but you aren't dismantling anything but your own position in this thread by using skewed logic. You say you aren't defending Israel, but it's painfully obvious that that is exactly what you're doing...if somebody made a thread "attacking" palestinians, would you be so quick to chime in, come to their aid, and offer all kinds of arguments as to why that particular threadstarter is a "racist," like you are doing here? I highly doubt it. I don't mind you stating your views, but don't be dishonest, it isn't very befitting.

Seems you can take your own advice.

By those comments to rely on, I think your skrewed logic and prejudices are making you blind even though you are trying very hard to seemingly dispose logic in your poor arguments. Your logic is very weak that you must put false words in my mouth and hypothesise my personality and prejudices in non-existent situations, which are purely, and only based your own self-deceptions. The next low for you would be insulting me.

I have stated this war is both parties fault. I would criticise in the same manner if the criteria presented to me were in the same form given by the opposition.

You people keep acting defensive and keep trying to infer Palestine is so innocent and is a pure victim in all this. The people of both Israel and Palestine are innocent victims in this religious and political war, BOTH governments are corrupt and are to blame.

Whenever you begin to analyze a problem or disease, you first seek out to identify the ROOT CAUSE of that problem or disease...and the root cause of the particular problem in question is the establishment of the zionist regime in palestine, and all of the illegal occupying that went on/goes on along with it. Unfortunately, people like YOU choose to skip the CAUSE and go right into the effects and then throw labels on people any way you see fit...sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

Oh please, that is purely your biased view. The Jewish people have rights to live on their own homeland, who are you or anyone else to say what is illegal and illegal land for the Jews? Talking about root causes. The Palestinians/Arabs have disagreed to give the Jews any land, even today’s Israel, from Day 1 probably a valid reason why they “illegally occupied.” Hence this is also why idiotic racists like Ahmadinjenad deny Israel as even a country. Hence the past wars, hence the hostility, hence what both sides keep fighting for. The Zionist Regime was set up for that cause of the rights of Jews and their homeland. The Jews are known survivors they had to fight for the rights for everything.

Jerusalem plays an equal important part in both cultures and religions.

We all know the ROOT CAUSE of this problem is because of the Islamic vs Judaism tensions that has existed for centuries even though both religions are closely related.

I’m looking at the over all picture and concentrating for the latter half of the century which only consists of finger pointing/shifting blame, bullshit conspiracies. The Jewish people didn’t fight themselves to this point; both countries played dirty tactics with each other because both governments/religious groups are greedy and fail to see the importance of human lives over politics/land/religion. The victims of this are the people of both lands who are both suffering.

Either side can stop but they don’t want to. Both are equally to blame.

I guess you need to selectively filter what you want to hear to persecute the Jews further based on screwed logic that you claim is valid. I'm not going to explain myself further on this topic as now I deem it fruitless.

[Pandora]

again, not to single this out, but if you think Iranians are being forced not to attend schools, i would think that's false conception.
i do not think Iran would be in 1 piece rightnow if that was the case.
my co-worker is Persian, and i walked upto her to discuss this.
she claims that she got her degree in Engineering through a University in Iran. i asked her whether her freedom of being educated was restricted in any sense or whether the government is making it harder for the common-folks to be educated, and she said i've been watching too much television. lol

I don't believe that's the case based on the other facts leading to suppressed human rights. There are hardly a few thousand students in each university

there is nothing to be said about gays. gays are frowned upon in Islam, and in Christianity too for that matter. Western societies are finally embracing homosexuality as a norm, that's fine and dandy for the homosexuals. but just because it is accepted here as a norm, do not expect it to be a norm everywhere else.
every country has its own set of values that defines its culture. Iran is an Islamic Republic and if the laws do not permit homosexuality, then it cannot be projected outwardly.
him saying that there are no homos in Iran simply means no one would dare to step up as a homosexual. his answer was in response of the accusition of him presecuting the gay community with cruel punishments. And you know what? a lot of the times, where there are constraints put in place, people do not want to think outside their sexual orientation - mostly because of the societal norms.
Elton John had to come to Canada to get married, I believe.. or one of those celebrity homos. it was just because they couldn't get married in the UK.
well, what have you to say about that? isn't that limiting the freedom of the homo-sexuals?

That's rubbish, the President clearly said "We do not have gays in Iran" that is ridiculous. Homosexuality although frowned upon in religions and cultures does not change the fact that homosexuality is independent from race and creed.

Killing and persecuting a life is not right based on that account.

Yes I believe that is suppressing the rights, but suppressing the right for them to BE gay itself is even more backward. You can't stop homosexuality it was even existent in Caesar's days.

[Pandora]

What exactly is the "conspiracy" here? Are we seeing "jews" in our soup? No, we're not, but you're claiming that Jewish influence, and power to influence public opinion through their hold on the media is nothing more than "speculation," when these facts can be researched and verified at the drop of a dime, then, you start to run off absurd analogies involving "ufo's," and "aliens" which nothing to do with anything we're talking about

I used the UFO analogy not on the basis of the subject matter of space [which you are irrelevantly picking on to criticise] but the fact that it is also a "conspiracy theory/speculation" that is written and supported by SOME scholars as well.

I used it to ONLY parallel the way you stated "since SOME scholars have written about the certain subject about the Jewish manipulating us through media = to me automatically having believe you." Not the way it goes.

That is not enough proof to convince to me its validity as the probability of your claims seem absurd. To further prove my point, you have not presented any facts and figures and sources to back up your claims, so your claims are still stand as speculation/conspiracy theories.

Interestingly enough, you conceded earlier in this thread that Jews do in fact possess a significant amount of power, and that they reached that level through nothing other than hard work and perseverance...well, which is it? Do they have power or not? You can't conveniently flip-flop your position on the matter as you see fit. I don't think the issue here ever was HOW Jews got into the positions that they are in, it's HOW they UTILIZE these positions to their advantage.

Interestingly you have stated that you don't blame the Iranian's President's poor reception based on his prior comments but declare the comments that he said is not racist or derogatory in any way?

Yes they possess power but just because they do possess the power doesn't mean they manipulate or censor newspapers to sympathise with Jews and marginalise Islam/Arabs.

What part of that don't you get? I even stated how many Jewish people/with Jewish heritage are in Hollywood making a good living for themselves, am I to believe Queen Armadala [Played by Natalie Portman, a Jew from Israel] in Star Wars is manipulating my mind because she is Jewish and in a place of power in the media? Entirely idiotic when unbacked and unproven -this can be seen as prejudiced.

Do you read the papers, or do you just watch the news? It's no secret that the jewish lobby is currently pressuring the United States to attack Iran directly, which would explain the furor that resulted from ahmadenijad's coming to the U.S. in the first place, and all the of the newpaper headlines which ran as a result - even though the greater majority of the U.S. population (which is non-jewish, of course) would vehemently oppose any such attack on Iran at the present-time considering the predicament that is being faced in iraq. Why is this so? because Iran is the only middle-eastern country that poses a threat to Israel, and can stare them down face-to-face. Combine that with the fact that the US has INCREASED it's aid to Israel over the course of the next 10 years, when Israel already recieves the most US aid out of any other country...that said, how can you sit here and deny the influence that Jews hold over our foriegn policy abroad?

USA has its own agenda, I don't side with them or back them up in interfering themselves into this, they are aggravating the situation. Israel is desperate enough for a powerful ally like USA to help them fight. I guess that is given, there is a significant population of Jews in America as well which could be another reason for America's sympathy towards Israel but this is by no means attributed to Jews controlling the minds/being manipulative of people through the media to gain that sympathy. USA made it's choice.

Iran have no right in interfering either as I think Ahmadenijad also has his own ADDITIONAL agenda/prejudice against the USA that is also independent from Palestine-Israel [obviously with their restriction of arms and past American bullying + UN sanctions].

FUNNILY enough, No Arab country to this date is giving the people [Muslim as well as the Christians] of Lebanon peace from the terrorist group Hezbollah who are also funnily prejudiced against Jews and Israel [have attacked them].

Interestingly, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the leader of the Islamic Revolution in Iran is this terrorist group's mentor, who is FUNNILY enough also supported by Ahmadenijad. FUNNILY enough this man's ideology was prejudiced against Jews and we can see it in Ahmadenijad as well. Let's not be intelligently dishonest here with why Iran is trying to involve itself.

Don't tell me the Jewish people in the media made all these facts up.


What the hell are you talking about? Show no solid proof of what? Proof that I don't deny the holocaust?

Yes I found it contradictory that you ask me a dumb question about why I believe the Holocaust happened as it a fruitless point when you yourself for one obviously agree with me that it did in fact happened without extensive research.

I'm asking you why YOU believe the holocaust is a historical truth, because you've maintained that you don't believe in certain things simply because a few scholars have done some research on the subject...well, why don't you treat the holocaust on the same merits?

Why I don't question it? Because it's fucking stupid and insulting to. It's even more stupid you promote that point when you even agree that it's an historical event that has persecuted Jews.

The probability it happened is certain based on extensive EVIDENCE. Living people have documented historical events from both the Jewish + Nazi side, diaries, proof of concentration camps, bodies. There is still a little girl of that time who was only spared her life to work as housemaid for a Nazi household. The Nazis killed all her family infront of HER, she was brought to work in the house for one of Hitler's leading wing man who was in charge of the slaughtering of Jews. She is still living with the scars. And you're telling me an idiot like Ahmadenijad is telling the world it did not happen and it's his right to? Maybe it is you who should open yours eyes for your blindness and injustice and insensitivity in his comments.

regardless, you STILL HAVEN'T provided a legitmate reason why Ahmadenijad's views on the holocaust qualifies him as an anti-semite. His stance is mainly:

A)that further research about the holocaust shouldn't be discouraged, and those that support this research shouldn't be bullied, slandered, and have their reputations ruined simply because a certain group of people "don't like it."

and

B) That even if the holocaust were an inarguable fact..what does this tragedy have to do with the Palestinians, and why should they have to pay for crimes which were committed against the jews by european germans?

Please outline a CLEAR reason why these statements are "anti-semetic" in your view. Until you can do this, you have no leg to stand on here.


Please you are twisting his words, the speech is there for everyone to see and that's not what his intentions were. I've given you a clear cut answer that you just don't what to hear for obvious reasons.

Why would he state that Israel [a land of Jews] should be wiped off the map and also state that Israel is not even a country AND THEN bring up something hurtful to the Jews to ridicule them further? Don't you find very convenient that he has to claim his right to question such a thing in such a context.

His intentions were not pure and is viewable as obvious prejudice against Jews. Don't be intelligently and emotionally dishonest to his obvious racism/prejudice against Jews.

How would you like it if I had an argument with you.
Then tell you I would like to eradicate you and others of your race from a certain location, off the map. Then bring up a fact that is hurtful to you and your RACE from your past. This hurtful event epitomises racism to the highest degree where there was mass murdering of your family and others just BASED on your race. Please tell me then, when I deny that it happened and question it, it gives me auto immunity to being called a racist?

Please when you can answer that to me honestly, come back, till then don't even bother arguing conveniently twisted points.


Anyway, even if somebody were to question the validity of our moon-landings, who are we to dismiss what they have to say "just because," isn't that what happened to galileo when he affirmed that that earth, contrary to popular belief, is NOT the center of the universe? If we want to credibly dismiss their claims, then what we must do is destroy their arguments by showing and proving with actual facts brought about through RESEARCH. Ahmadenijad is calling for RESEARCH, and if that is his opinion on the matter, then so be it, what does it matter to you? 10 years ago if you tried to tell somebody that pluto wasn't a planet, you'd get laughed at, correct? Now lo and behold, we've just re-written every one of our science books, and our solar system is now said to have 8 planets instead of 9. With that said, why are you so anti-research?

Refer to previous comments I'm not going to delve into any of this stupidity. Some things frankly and obviously don't need to be questioned, like the fact gravity exists, like the fact Israel and Palestine are in a war with each other.

You said that his words were not "innocent," why do you say that, and WHY ARE YOU SOOOOO CONCERNED with what jews have gone through? why do their tragedies touch you so much, while the tragedies of others touch you so little? Is there a reason why? Is a jewish life worth more than a palestinian life, in your opinon?

lol more speculation. I'm concerned that many people defending a racist and posting racist claims are forgetting the value of life of a Jew is one of equal value to any one else.

He never said that he wanted to wipe Israel off the map, he called Israel an illegal regime that needs to be eradicated from the middle east, and guess what, MOST OF THE WORLD agrees with him. He never said that the Jews don't have the right to live on their own land, he repeatedly stated that they DO, but that it shouldn't have to come at the expense of an entire people. When racist apartheid ended in South Africa, did South Africa "cease to exist" on the african continent? No, it didn't, so what makes you think that this is any difference?

Oh, and since you've been kind enough so as to provide us with a precise definition for racial discrimination, it's interesting to note that Israel and the US always sided with South Africa during the apartheid era, this is an undisupted FACT. what do you think of that? I'm just curious.

Rubbish. He stated he cannot compromise the issue of Palestine after he quoted and affirmed a man with anti-jew prejudices which stated the country of Israel as an "occuping regime" to be wipped off the map.

Iman =Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the leader of the Islamic Revolution in Iran he is Ahmadenijad and the Hezbollah terrorist groups mentor also previously proven anti-jew. Let's not be intelligently dishonest here.

Part of his speech:

"Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime [Israel] has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world. But we must be aware of tricks."

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/weekinreview/30iran.html?_r=1&ex=1161230400&en=26f07fc5b7543417&ei=5070&oref=slogin

You asked for a definition and I gave you one.

Yes the Jews/Whites were racist to the Africans and people of colour in a certain era. It's pretty freaking disgusting but the racism in this thread is no different even if it's a defensive sort. Makes none the better.

Now, please tell me why is there so much racism in Saudi Arabia and Arab countries towards non-muslims?


LOL @ you thinking RATEDESI is the only place where people defend ahmadenijad's right to believe whatever he wants...are you being serious? Ahmadenijad recieved a standing ovation when he spoke at the UN, what does that tell you? Is the WHOLE WORLD anti-semetic, then, according to you? Is the WHOLE WORLD racist? India recently refused to cut diplomatic ties with Iran in the face of pressure from the united states, so is India anti-semetic and racist as well? Please...you haven't provided a reason to call ahmadenijad a racist, other than the fact that you, and a small group of people (jews) disagree with what he has to say on a particular issue. SORRY, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

No, I'm just using your retarded logic that you accused me of by stating that I'm only calling the threadmaker and the other guy anti-jew without backing it up, inferring that I'm only doing it because I'm non-muslim and it's expected because we are prejudiced.

Although the facts stare you in the face, you want to continually deny his guilt, so be it whatever helps you sleep at night.

India has its own agenda against USA because of their bullying tactics.

Racist remarks = you are racist.
Quoting a racist who makes a racist remark and agreeing with it = you're a racist.

Proof of the standing ovation and speech please although that doesn't convince me as it's a weak statement but I read earlier in this thread by Punjabi girl's post she stated she found it rude that people walked out in his UN speech. OOH?

you can call my logic poor all you want, but there have been numerous threads here where palestinians, their right to self-determination, and their right to statehood have been attacked repeatedly, and GUESS WHAT, I didn't see YOU, space-cowboy, or anybody else here come to their defense in the same way that you coming to the defense of Jews in THIS thread. I call em' how I see em,' and I'm sorry, but you just aren't being honest...and you know it.

Bump up the thread, it's possible that we just did not see it and possibly the fact that the threads did not state "ALL PALESTINIANS + ARABS ARE SKILLED LYING MANIPULATORS THAT CONTROL THE WORLDZ BECAUSE THEY HAVE POWER AND OWNZ ALL THE OILZ".

I tend to ignore this Muslim Vs the World debates because they all ended up into bullshit slurs and obvious prejudices and come to the most annoying bottom line: Religion.

The Jewish people have rights to a homeland, yes, but Arabs shouldn't be obliged to pay for it. LOL, look at what you just said: "The arabs have disagreed to give the jews any land..." SO WHAT? It's THEIR LAND. They've been on that land since the dawn of civilization, what right do some people from europe have to come and DEMAND something from them, simply off the strength of what they endured on ANOTHER CONTINENT, and at the hands of ANOTHER PEOPLE?

I don't like this attitude that this is only Arab land. So I will defend the Jews on this point.

lol so you're telling me no abundance of Jews/Hebrews existed during vicinity and the time of Christ and prior at the locations that Palestine is claiming as their lands? BULLSHIT.

The Jews originated from the ancient middle east which covers a wide area that includes today's Israel/Palestine/Iran/Syria/Egypt/Turkey. They bear Jerusalem/now Israel as a significant part of their religion and cultural identity. Who the fuck are the Arabs to decide and take that away from them in the first place?

They were forcefully driven from place to place because people persecuted them and they moved where they could be freed from persecution and to have the right to practice their own religion and way of life. They have learnt to survive. So you can't accuse them of taking a "holiday" and coming back to wrongfully demand THEIR land too.

They have been disposed of a homeland their plea for land and an identity is NOT because of what they suffered in Germany. It's because they finally had a chance to be free post-Hitler. The world's disgusting prejudices against Jews were altering and they had a chance to finally to be seen as human beings and have a chance to voice their past sufferings that has driven them from their home and to also reclaim their cultural identity.

They just wanted fucking land that is close to their tradition/religion/holy place to call home without persecution any further and neither Palestinians/Israelis cannot live peacefully with Jews they divided their land. We both know the religious quarrels between Judaism and Islam.

It's more like me being driven out of my homeland based on my beliefs/religion and being homeless, enduring persecution, then seeing the fact the world has changed just a little and has finally opened its fucking eyes towards it's racism towards me and then me having the guts to go back to my homeland and being who I want to be without being persecuted because of my religion/beliefs.

So let me get this straight, just say for arguments sake that some idiot in your family of ancestors/community killed someone/betrayed someone thousand years ago and was a terrible person, should you, your family and your entire race be shunned upon and killed/abused/your freedom restricted?

Should you be forced from your homeland because of your beliefs and then denied to come back when to it even if you bear so much cultural and religious identity with your homeland? The Jews saw a chance to reunite their community and they took it, I don't blame them.

Please answer that.

The war now is futile bs based on greed of land and religious bs.



LOL, sweetie, during the reign of the caliphate, the Jews FLOCKED to muslim lands in droves to escape European persecution. If it weren't for the protection and asylum that Arab muslims offered the jews, there wouldn't even be a holocaust because they would have been exterminated somewhere during by 10th century or so, or maybe even before that. Compare the situation in that part of the world when muslims were ruling it, to the situation it's in now...no comparison.

Muslim lands? explain which lands exactly?
Sure the Arabs helped them out in the 10th century, then in the 21st century they marginalised them for claiming part of their right to live on their owns lands. Check out the fleeing of Jews from Iran as well.

Um, no you're not, you just tried to backtrack hundreds of years, the fuck are you talking about?

You talked about ROOT causes.. therefore I was pointing out valid ROOT causes that go back in history.

I just believe now the war is futile and greed from both parties.

You say that both are equally to blame, but I don't see you making ONE CRITICAL point of significance directed towards Israel/Zionism...hmmm, I wonder why that is. Could it be because you are being intellectually dishonest?

Present all the evil the Zionists have done unless it's this "all jews in power are zionists and manipulating people" thing. I've already pointed equal blame on Israel but you're failing to see Palestinians own involvement in this.

All I've seen is that Jews got some of their land back, and Palestine/Arab world is still crying over the fact they got it back and trying to reason as fact that the Jews don't deserve their land they got back and think it's not rightfully theirs. When in actual fact its both their lands yet they're still using that false pretense that it is only their land so they have self-justified to fuel today's war.

Israel also greedily wants more land having the same Palestinian mentality that is theirs and you are claiming they are using past suffering for more land. Palestine doesn't want to give anymore land because they greedily think it's their land so both countries are fighting stupidly at the costs of innocents because neither does not want to back down and give up.

They are now both wanting to seek allies Palestine with Iran and the Arab World Vs Israel and America to fuck up the world more and escalate this stupid war, destroy the very land they are fighting for and killing off their own peoples.

You have not even given one point of significance to defend the Jews either.

As I said the war now is both parties fault for not letting go of the past. I believe in independent Jerusalem but that won't sit well for either party because of religious and political greed which seem to come hand in hand.

[BMW-racer]

I don't believe that's the case based on the other facts leading to suppressed human rights. There are hardly a few thousand students in each university



That's rubbish, the President clearly said "We do not have gays in Iran" that is ridiculous. Homosexuality although frowned upon in religions and cultures does not change the fact that homosexuality is independent from race and creed.

Killing and persecuting a life is not right based on that account.

Yes I believe that is suppressing the rights, but suppressing the right for them to BE gay itself is even more backward. You can't stop homosexuality it was even existent in Caesar's days.
you don't believe, because you don't *want* to believe. I would believe a true persian rather than some fictional media.
on thenote of homos:
in saudia arabia, they cut the hands of the folks that steal. *shrug*
is that really justified? they behead people in public for serious crimes, is that justified? no. but that's what they have been practicing.
if Iran is prosecuting gays, well... they're doing it because they believe in it. Too bad for the Gay Community. they have no choice but to NOT exist like the President said, or leave the Country.
whether homosexuality existed from earlier years or not, it is wrong in their ideals. simple as that.

[not-now]

why are people still arguing over this ? it's true jews do have significant power over the media even non-muslims including jews themselves have said this people must be very naive to think jews don't influence on media headlines or american foreign policy in any way .
Also criticism of israel does not make someone anti-semetic theres orthodox jews against israel how can they be anti-semetic ? The fact that people here think anti-israel means you hate jews shows bmw racer has a point.

[aww_skeet_skeet]

lets see here the presidents of nbc, cbs, and abc are all jewish....

[Pandora]

Okay a few people have been ACCUSED of abusing their power in the past, so therefore ALL JEWISH people to this day with power, all manipulate. LOL. Let me play on this retarded logic and reverse it to your end.

Just like how the Arabs manipulate people to get what they want since they have power over OIL. OIL > Media in terms of levels of "power." Therefore all Arabs are manipulative and good story tellers.

USA has its own tensions with the Arab world, especially since post 9-11.

Slandering a racist? Wow that's a first. I find it funny how you don't even take into consideration what was said by him in context. Not to mention him quoting a man Khomeini, who had anti-jew prejudices. I wonder why the Jew were mad, hmmmmm.

The Iranian Presdient's statements:
Getting rid of the Israeli 'regime' off the map? Stating Israel is not even a country? Unnecessarily bringing up the Holocaust and denying it happened to inflame the WHOLE Jewish community? Oh wow he didn't talk about the regime there,but it's all okay because he was talking in the anme of SCIENCE. lol you are clearly ignorant and prejudiced you didn't even put the last point together or address it at all.

We'll see what type of figure the President of Iran will turn out.
Please don't yap shit for the sake of justification for Iran Vs America. I have not criticized him challenging America but the racist words he has said. Entirely unnecessary.

lol @ Hezbollah creating peace for Lebanon/World. I'm guessing you have Hezbollah sympathies so I won't bother arguing with you.

lmao @ you telling me it's a JEWISH people problem not a IRANIAN/PALESTINIAN people problem when I ONLY merely corrected your retarded supporting statement of the President of Iran's words of questioning the holocaust. Utter rubbish with the rest of your bullshit that you're trying to justify in his words, yes they suffered in Europe. They also suffered in Arab countries too. Your point is? The only point you have is prejudiced -that Jews have no right to the land in Israel/Ancient Middle East. I and many others don't share your view.

I've seen his speech but go ahead. He has not redeemed himself. He deserves the poor reception he receives.

Hahah they originated in old Arabia as slaves, they were pushed into Europe to escape persecution. Yes perhaps some converted but many of them fled, you are just justifying Palestinian greed for land.

They are also much considered Arabs as the Palestinians are, that is their homeland they didn't land there from Europe. So don't give me anymore Palestinian/Arab bullshit to convince me they all came/originated from Europe. You even admitted there were Palestinian Jews.

Everything else is your self confessed prejudice towards the Jews or should I make this more politically correct, "the regime of Israel".

I wonder what a Jewish person would think of your claims to deny their cultural/religious ties with a land of their ancestors.

Why don't we challenge your statement that the Arabs in Palestine rightfully own all the land because they were there first? WHY should I believe they claim native rights. I'm just using the Iranian president's questioning style for historical events- It's all in the name of Science :lol:

Thank you Ahmadenijad.

[aww_skeet_skeet]

UGXAj2LSbKY




and u wonder why they would want the israeli regime gone

[aww_skeet_skeet]

I was keeping a close eye on your flawed argument and this is what interested me the most. Not that the rest of it is any better, but this is the worst piece of jibberish that you could come up with. What palestinian homeland do you speak of? Please guide me. If I was pushed out of my house by you; I lived in exile for centuries, and finally got the opportunity to return, then this is exatly what I would say. “man, this is my house and you’re sitting on my land. Please move to the part of the house that belongs to you (in this case Gaza which is the only land of the Philisties). The entire house isn’t yours; it’s mine”. Now if you believe Jesus was a Jew and walked the land of Israel, then I’m sure you will agree that the land at the time (and always) belonged to the Jews since Jesus was a jew himself. I know you’re living in denial because you aren’t being true to yourself. You see, I’m not a Jew, but I still sustain the Jews, because I know for a fact that the land that you claim belongs to Palestine (and there are Palestinian Christians) in fact, does not belong to Palestine, never did. You on the other hand only sustain Palestinians because you feel they are Muslims suffering in the hands of the “evil jews”. But what is the ultimate truth? You very well know the truth here, but won’t accept it, my friend. This entire argument makes no sense

BTW, Its good to back after a month behind RD bars. Namestai beta :)


but the fact the most european jews did not live in palestine/isreal area ever.. doesnt bother you?



so you think it would be alright... if the native americans came knockin on your door and asked you to get the fuck out and take over all your land and your homes and shit....

[aww_skeet_skeet]

My dad owns a huge piece of land in pakistan given to him by his dad/ grand dad. He has lived 35 years of his life out of pakistan, going back and forth ofcourse. I've lived my entire life in Europe and America. Now are you telling me that since I have not lived on that piece of land, it does not belong to me anymore? My ancestors are the rightful owners, are they not? If you come and grab that land since I have been away means it becomes your land? Your argument is baseless, my friend.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews

[aww_skeet_skeet]

What?????? What was the purpose of an article concerning ashkenazi jews? What did you manage to prove with this article? Please guide me. I dont think you know what you're talking about, but for the sake of arguement, guide me to what you managed to prove with an ashkennazi jew article.


the fact that these askenazi jews were the ones that were placed into isreal... but they never lived in isreal..... so how can they say that the land belonged to them... the askenazi jews originiated in europe.. and stayed in europe....

[Pandora]

UGXAj2LSbKY




and u wonder why they would want the israeli regime gone

I've seen that news video. I feel for the Palestinian people I have not denied their suffering and the unfair tactics Israel is employing to terrorise and inflict pain to locals but what do you expect in a war like this that is caused by both sides?

The Jews have right their lands also, so you can't dismantle Jewish occupation easily.

Both sides that want to claim their rights to land they both equally deserve. All that has been claimed is that not enough of it is being presented in the media for Palestinian suffering, I don't believe that is attributed to the fact Jews in power control the media and manipulate.

The suicide bombings and everything else Palestine has done does not help. Israeli's have suffered, but I see why they do it in a war like this. Doesn't make it right either.

Still doesn't change the Iranian president's racial comments, still doesn't justify this war.

Read this story:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1153291988269

[Pandora]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews

What does it matter what type of Jew lives in Israel? We are talking predominately about the Hebrew/Jews that were clearly existent in the ancient arab world. These people also have been FORCED to flee their homeland from persecution to Europe.

It's a dumb fact to state, when you have a guy like the Iranian President a Muslim Iranian [who bears no real ties with the land that Palestine/Israel are claiming] is fighting for the Palestinian rights for "their" land.

[aww_skeet_skeet]

What the heck are you on about, my friend? I lived my life in the west, but that does not mean my dad is not a paki. That does not mean that the land that belonged to my paki dad is no longer mine cause I was born in the west. The bottom line is; jews are the rightful owners of that land and not palestinians. Palestinians are the rightful onwers of Gaza, that's it. They have no right over Jerusalem, which is what they want. But jerusalem was always israeli city, and shall always remain.

if you wouldve read the link...

fact most of the jews placed into isreal were azkenazi jews... and if you wouldve read the link.. you wouldve figured out that the azkenazi jews originated in europe......




if someone came up to you.. and said that they owned the land before your ancestors got there...and its rightfully theirs you would just give it back to them....

[aww_skeet_skeet]

I've seen that news video. I feel for the Palestinian people I have not denied their suffering and the unfair tactics Israel is employing to terrorise and inflict pain to locals but what do you expect in a war like this that is caused by both sides?

The Jews have right their lands also, so you can't dismantle Jewish occupation easily.

Both sides that want to claim their rights to land they both equally deserve. All that has been claimed is that not enough of it is being presented in the media for Palestinian suffering, I don't believe that is attributed to the fact Jews in power control the media and manipulate.

The suicide bombings and everything else Palestine has done does not help. Israeli's have suffered, but I see why they do it in a war like this. Doesn't make it right either.

Still doesn't change the Iranian president's racial comments, still doesn't justify this war.

Read this story:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1153291988269



so u think its just a mere coincidence... and the suicide bombings are because of the way that the palestinain people are treated everyday and what hell they have to go through......

are you saying that its a military necessity that isreal is treating the palestinains this way....

because thats what the nazis said of the jews.. that its a military necessity...

[aww_skeet_skeet]

I skimmed through the article you provided and I haven't found anything that refutes my point. We're are talking about jews and that has nothing to do with the fact that one is a freakin ashkenazi or a pakisnazi. :idea:

Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or Ashkenazim (Standard Hebrew: sing. אַשְׁכֲּנָזִי, pl. אַשְׁכֲּנָזִים; pronounced sing. [ˌaʃkəˈnazi] pl. [ˌaʃkəˈnazim], with [z] rather than with [ʦ] as in Tzar; also יְהוּדֵי אַשְׁכֲּנָז Yehudei Ashkenaz, "the Jews of Ashkenaz"), are descended from the medieval Jewish communities of the Rhineland. "Ashkenaz" is the Medieval Hebrew name for Germany.

Many later migrated, largely eastward, forming communities in Germany, Hungary, Poland, Russia, Eastern Europe and elsewhere between the 10th and 19th centuries. From medieval times until the mid-20th century





they originiated in EUROPE as in they had never lived in isreal/palestine area....

they were the ones that were placed in isreal....... how does that not refute your agumment....

[aww_skeet_skeet]

I don't sustain any violence, never did, but the problem is that palestinian gunmen have this huge fan following in palestine who are aiding them in their anti israeli activities all the time. If palestinian brethren stop feeding their little newborn kids with hate towards Israel, I'm sure this ordeal will end. Both sides need to compromise but it seems palestinian gunmen aren't ready for any sort of compromise. They want all their demands be fullfilled or they would continue with their terrorist activities in israeli civilian areas. I mean are they nuts? Why do they want their innocent women and children to suffer? Beggers can't be choosers; you very well know you can not win this game with guns, which is why you need to drop those guns and play this game with your brain. Its a game of chess, mate.

one mans terrorist is anothe rmans freedom fighter... yes they have a huge following why.. because that is their only defense against the isreali army that terrorizes them every single day...

if you were living theyre you would hate isrealis too..

the isreali soldiers are commiting a lot more terrorist activities in palestinian civilians areas.. thats the reason why palestinian gunmen do what they do...

[aww_skeet_skeet]

This is something I fail to understand. What do you mean by 'they originated in Europe'???????? I said, I originated in the west meaning I have never lived on the land that my father has in pakistan. Does that mean the land does not belong to me cause I have never lived their?????? Lets imagine my dad gives me all his land and I decide never go back to the land. My kids (lets imagine they were from a mixed race) will originate in the west; they are the legal heirs to the thrown. Now they decided to return back to the land which belonged to their ancestors. Now that means the land which belonged to their great great grand dad is no longer theirs because they originated in America? Or Europe????? or heaven???????????? I tried to keep it as simple as possible.

its not the same thing...

the jews were placed in that area.. after centuries and centuries....


like I said earlier... if someone comes on your dads land and says that this land belonged to them waay before your ancestors got there would u be willing to just let them take over just cause theyre ancestors lived a hundreds of thousands of years before...

[aww_skeet_skeet]

There are bad apples on every tree my friend. There maybe israeli soldiers that are fucked in the head but the palestinian gunmen are are worse. I dont buy the crap that israeli army is terrorising palestinians, because I know several jews and Indians living in Israel. Israel is a democracy with no lawlessness on the loose.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's suicide bomber. You can't compromise with terrorists. Israeli army only targets those palestinians who they believe are behind terrorist activities, whereas palestinian gunmen are targeting innocent israeli civilians. Heck, they even target palestinian christians all the time.

u dont need to be in the debate then...... since u obviously have no idea what the fuck is happening around the world...

i have a friend whos lives in palestine.. and is here as a student... her brother was shot by the israeli soldiers because he was out after the curfew...



37MFa7ZKQWo

0bdbA2Ka3Bo


l0aEo59c7zU

please take the time to look through theese... well atleast the last one...

[aww_skeet_skeet]

WHat???? Jews were placed in that area after centuries? Centuries of what? Where were they before that? In lala land???????


Thats exactly what I'm trying to say. If those people rightfully owned the land and come to me claiming that they are the rightful onwers of the land of my dad; and how they got forced out of that land, then yes. If some one tells me that my house is built illegally on someone elses property then yes, I have to get the heck out of there, or reach some sort of agreement allowing another house to be built on that land. We can't build homes on illegal property, my friend.


they were placed back into isreal after centuries and centuries....of living in europe....


you cant just come back after living in a whole another continent for centuries and then decide cause hitler did this to us we gotta go takeover the land...

how did those people know that the land was illegal.. if no ones there... why come back without a deed.. or anything why not just go back to their homes that they were kicked out of becuase of hitler...


with your logic the americans should be able to go back to europe and kickoff whoever is living there because their ancestors onces lived on that land...

[aww_skeet_skeet]

Do you honestly think they came back because of what hitler did to them? Returning back to their homeland was on their agenda since the day they were pushed out of Israel. They knew they will return one day, and they did.

Are you telling me that since I've lived my entire life abroad, my future generation is no longer eligible to return back to the land that belongs to their ancestors? You're not making any sense, but you keep coming back. We're moving in circles, my friend.

he was out getting bread.... and he was only 13 at the time...

but it was in palestine.. they are being controlled by the isrealis everyday....

if your future generation hasnt gone back.... in about couple 100s of years from now.....they are eligible to return.. but not forcefully take back the land...


so you think it would be right for the americans to go back to europe and rightfully claim the land they once lived on... even though there are people now living on that land...

[aww_skeet_skeet]

:lol: Yes, only if Europe was better than America. Why would Americans wanna do that when Americans know America is far more superior than Europe???? Your immature arguments are cracking me up.


righhht.....
so why would u wanna go back to pakistan.. when u know the west is far more superior????

[aww_skeet_skeet]

:lol: Yes, only if Europe was better than America. Why would Americans wanna do that when Americans know America is far more superior than Europe???? Your immature arguments are cracking me up.


so u think it would be alright if the arabs go back to spain and kickoff those people... because their ancestors once lived there....

[aww_skeet_skeet]

They are controlled for security puposes but not treated like animals.

So my future generation is eligible to return, but if they are denied the rights on their land; the land that belongs to their forefathers, then I don't see why they can't forcefully take back what was once theirs.

hitler also kept the jews in control for security purposes......he had concentration camps... the israelis have refugee camps...

[aww_skeet_skeet]

Dude, Arabs already did travel to spain to take over a land that did not even belong to them. :lol: This is what I was talking about in my previous post. Arabs conquered the land and converted people to islam. The land is not theirs. Dude you're dumb. King david conquered Gaza 3000 years ago and claimed it for Israel, but that land belongs to philisties. So no, Arabs have no right over Spain.


but dont u realise... thats how most civilizations form....everyone has stolen land back and forth throughout history...just not as much in modern history...mad people have lived off and on...


what about the muslims who were once jews that lived in israel and later on converted to islam... and that stayed there.. why are they also being kicked off.. shouldnt they be able to go back to israel and claim it now?

[aww_skeet_skeet]

Dude I can understand why you prefer comparing jews to hitler but that is utter bullshit. Jews posed no security threat to germans. Palestinians do pose a threat, especially when you can't tell whether the dude next door is coming over to you to convert you , himself and several others, into tiny pieces of raw meat with a click of a button. Hitler was a pure racist butthurt cause jews were much more intelligent than himself, and his fellow country men at the time.

I dont know why u keep thinking that isreali government isnt the one terrorizing the palestinian people even in places that are now palestenian.. why do they have checkpoints in every palestenian city.. why do they go and kill innocent people...


the reason those dudes go around with bombs is because they are fighting back to the oppressors....



and why dont the jews go back to egypt..... cause thats technically their homeland.....

there were people living on the land that moses brought them to ya know...

[aww_skeet_skeet]

Why don't you use common sense this time? Do the descendents of those who converted out of judaism know they were jews?Do they come out and openly declare their jewish heritage? They are free to live in israel but the problem is that you cant tell, cause the descendents of former jews who converted, maybe the ones employed by hamas.


so how are people to know... that the jews comming back after centuries of living in europe are the ones that owned the land before them.....how do they know theyre not making it up... how would they know which one of them owned which part...


mBSM1Wvlpxc

please realise what the fuck is going on.......

[aww_skeet_skeet]

Checkpoints are there to protect the interests of israeli civilians. Its their to prevent suicide bombers from slipping into israeli territory -its happened in the past - to commit terrorist acts.

LOL dude do you study before typing, or do you rant for nothing? Moses brought jews out of Egypt where they lived in bondage for centuries. It seems you know nothing about anything. time to call it quits, my friend.

im saying the jews lived in egypt before they moved.....

so why not go back there....

when the jews got israel there were people already living there.....

[gammagoblin]

Oh yeah, and all the findings in Israel point out to just one fact; the original inhabitants of Israel were the jews. Do some research on this my friend. Its their god promised land and moses led them out of egypt to the virgin land of israel before anyone else.

oh look, the pagan boy returns

[Pandora]

so u think its just a mere coincidence... and the suicide bombings are because of the way that the palestinain people are treated everyday and what hell they have to go through......

are you saying that its a military necessity that isreal is treating the palestinains this way....

because thats what the nazis said of the jews.. that its a military necessity...

Stop putting words in my mouth. Israel is suffering, look at all the suicide bombings, think of how many families/homes are disposed because of them too yet I don't see you people showing how much care to the people of Israel suffer because you're only partial to Palestinian suffering. This is all because you claim not much of it is shown on TV. How does that change the suicide bombings? I know they do it to retaliate, Palestinians have done other shit too that they shouldn't be proud of, this is fucking war what do you expect?

You fail to even see that The Israelis the Jews of Arabia deserve a right to their homeland too, so you can't point blame at Israeli's being there stealing homes based on the your claim they don't deserve the land. If the Jews don't the Palestinians don't either.

However, it doesn't change the fact the Israeli's are playing brutally in this war which should be definitely be seen as war crimes as the people are innocent in this which should be stopped.

I feel for the people of both sides but you can't give me this bullshit "the Palestinians are suffering because Jews from Europe want all their land" or telling me that "Jews don't have rights to their homeland". Based on that account it's bullshit.

Truth has made very interesting points, Israel definitely was the promised land to the Jews. The Jews didn't leave on their free will. Jesus was a Galilean Jew.

Who are the Palestinians to tell them that their homeland is not theirs when there is significant history?

Both of the sides now are fighting for greed. You can't have me believe this is all Israel's fault and this illegal occupation bullshit.

[not-now]

Which people were living their? moses brought them to the promised land. Moses, in judaism, is the perfect man that has ever walked the earth; he who brought them to israel, the god given promised land of the jews.

I'm tired and will get back to this tomorrow. I need to get some sleep.


uh so if i came to your home and said i'm gonna live here because my ancestors were here first and god promised it to me you would be ok with that ?

[aww_skeet_skeet]

uh so if i came to your home and said i'm gonna live here because my ancestors were here first and god promised it to me you would be ok with that ?

dont waste your time... he already said hed be fine with it....

[not-now]

dont waste your time... he already said hed be fine with it....


lol i can't believe that :rofl:

[not-now]

Stop putting words in my mouth. Israel is suffering, look at all the suicide bombings, think of how many families/homes are disposed because of them too yet I don't see you people showing how much care to the people of Israel suffer because you're only partial to Palestinian suffering. This is all because you claim not much of it is shown on TV. How does that change the suicide bombings? I know they do it to retaliate, Palestinians have done other shit too that they shouldn't be proud of, this is fucking war what do you expect?

You fail to even see that The Israelis the Jews of Arabia deserve a right to their homeland too, so you can't point blame at Israeli's being there stealing homes based on the your claim they don't deserve the land. If the Jews don't the Palestinians don't either.

However, it doesn't change the fact the Israeli's are playing brutally in this war which should be definitely be seen as war crimes as the people are innocent in this which should be stopped.

I feel for the people of both sides but you can't give me this bullshit "the Palestinians are suffering because Jews from Europe want all their land" or telling me that "Jews don't have rights to their homeland". Based on that account it's bullshit.

Truth has made very interesting points, Israel definitely was the promised land to the Jews. The Jews didn't leave on their free will. Jesus was a Galilean Jew.

Who are the Palestinians to tell them that their homeland is not theirs when there is significant history?

Both of the sides now are fighting for greed. You can't have me believe this is all Israel's fault and this illegal occupation bullshit.

well according the UN and pretty much the whole world except israel it is illegal occupation and the creation of israel itself is against judaism they weren't supposed to go there until the messiah came thats why theres orthodox jews against israel.

[Pandora]

well according the UN and pretty much the whole world except israel it is illegal occupation and the creation of israel itself is against judaism they weren't supposed to go there until the messiah came thats why theres orthodox jews against israel.

Okay so I will play with this theory, they were not supposed to go there till their Messiah came, how does that change the fact that Jews did not originate from those lands?

[King Ghidra]

well according the UN and pretty much the whole world except israel it is illegal occupation and the creation of israel itself is against judaism they weren't supposed to go there until the messiah came thats why theres orthodox jews against israel.

Actually it was until they re-bulit King Solomans temple, but that's impossible now considering how muslims built a mosque on top of that :idea:

[not-now]

Okay so I will play with this theory, they were not supposed to go there till their Messiah came, how does that change the fact that Jews did not originate from those lands?


doesn't matter to palestinians they've been living in that land for generations why should they give it up ?
ok i'm muslim and i'm guessing your not lets say my great,great,great,great grandparents once lived in your house but were forced out for reasons nothing to do with you then your family moved in and lived there for some generations.
One day i turn up at your house and say i'm moving in because my ancestors lived here but don't worry i'll still let your keep your bedroom and you aren't allowed to go in some parts of the house because they're "muslim only" rooms I will also have control of the electricity and water in your bedroom and bathroom so i can turn it off whenever i want aswell as the changing the locks on your door and caging up your window so only I have control over entry/exit of your own room ,your telling me you would be fine with that ? because thats exactly what israel has done to the palestinians.

[Pandora]

doesn't matter to palestinians they've been living in that land for generations why should they give it up ?
ok i'm muslim and i'm guessing your not lets say my great,great,great,great grandparents once lived in your house but were forced out for reasons nothing to do with you then your family moved in and lived there for some generations.
One day i turn up at your house and say i'm moving in because my ancestors lived here but don't worry i'll still let your keep your bedroom and you aren't allowed to go in some parts of the house because they're "muslim only" rooms I will also have control of the electricity and water in your bedroom and bathroom so i can turn it off whenever i want aswell as the changing the locks on your door and caging up your window so only I have control over entry/exit of your own room ,your telling me you would be fine with that ? because thats exactly what israel has done to the palestinians.

The Jews only left their homelands because they were being persecuted. Do you honestly think that is fair in the first place and that they shouldn't be able to live on their original land?

The Jews are basically brothers and sisters of Arabia and you people treat them like they were from a different race and state they all came from "Europe."

The Jews were never from Europe. Perhaps Judaism spread like the way Islam spread over countries but it does not change the fact Jews originated in Arabia.

I'll give you another hypothetical story.

Say you lived on a piece of land for all your life, you come from the same type of race as the other inhabitants there with similarly long history. You also share a religious/cultural connection with the same lands as these people and one of your Muslim prophets was also born there but to other idiotic racist people, they treated you like dirt/abused you/tried killing you/your family/friends off because they hated you based on the fact they looked down on/disagreed about Islam and your practices. They considered you peasants. You had to escape your homeland to survive and live like human beings. You had no choice.

Generation after generation these idiotic racist people cultured the same racial and religious hatred towards Islam, killed you off for your beliefs. You suffered so much in the hands of many assholes. You finally have a chance to return to your homeland and retie with your cultural and religious roots because people started accepting you as human beings after knowing the bloodshed you suffered was inhumane and stupid, people wanted to help you.

Once you arrive back to your homeland, the other inhabitants there deny your cultural roots and your religious ties and tell you to fuck off because they also were there when you were and have taken over your lands.
Now you're telling me that is okay? I strongly disagree.

The rest I highlighted in your argument is wrong by the Israelis, they have to learn to share but the fact that Palestine denies them any land* in first place is very unfair and unnecessary.

[not-now]

The Jews only left their homelands because they were being persecuted. Do you honestly think that is fair in the first place and that they shouldn't be able to live on their original land?

The Jews are basically brothers and sisters of Arabia and you people treat them like they were from a different race and state they all came from "Europe."

The Jews were never from Europe. Perhaps Judaism spread like the way Islam spread over countries but it does not change the fact Jews originated in Arabia.

I'll give you another hypothetical story.

Say you lived on a piece of land for all your life, you come from the same type of race as the other inhabitants there with similarly long history. You also share a religious/cultural connection with the same lands as these people and one of your Muslim prophets was also born there but to other idiotic racist people, they treated you like dirt/abused you/tried killing you/your family/friends off because they hated you based on the fact they looked down on/disagreed about Islam and your practices. They considered you peasants. You had to escape your homeland to survive and live like human beings. You had no choice.

Generation after generation these idiotic racist people cultured the same racial and religious hatred towards Islam, killed you off for your beliefs. You suffered so much in the hands of many assholes. You finally have a chance to return to your homeland and retie with your cultural and religious roots because people started accepting you as human beings after knowing the bloodshed you suffered was inhumane and stupid, people wanted to help you.

Once you arrive back to your homeland, the other inhabitants there deny your cultural roots and your religious ties and tell you to fuck off because they also were there when you were and have taken over your lands.
Now you're telling me that is okay? I strongly disagree.

The rest I highlighted in your argument is wrong by the Israelis, they have to learn to share but the fact that Palestine denies them any land* in first place is very unfair and unnecessary.


nobody's denying the jewish connection to israel there were jews living peacefully alongside palestinians nobody had a problem it's when european and russian jews started arriving and they decided to declare independence as a jewish state is when the problems started what did you expect the native population to just magically disappear to make way for jews ? and If they were driven out in the first place well thats is not the palestinians problem now is it ? they didn't persecute the jews.
As for the bold part wtf ???? do you even know whats happening in the ME ? have you even heard of the 6 day war or the pre-67 borders ? it's israel thats building JEWISH ONLY ROADS and JEWISH ONLY settlements and refusing to dismantle them ,it's israel demolishing palestinians homes,it's israel holding hundreds of innocent palestinians without charge,it's israel fencing the palestinians in.
The israelis are the ones that have control of the vast majority of the land much of it ILLEGALLY it's beyond me how you can say palestinians are the ones at fault :rolleyes:
The threadmaker is absolutely right i mean look at it why are you siding with israel when they've been condemmed by everyone except zionists ? probably because you've only been shown one side.
I really can't believe your double standards your bashing ahmedinejad for merely questioning something, an event that his country had no part in while your keeping quiet even protecting a country that unlike iran has been accused of war crimes and known to have killed innocent people like crushing humans rights protesters,shooting journalists and bombing UN peacekeepers yes iran has also done some bad stuff but nowhere near on the same scale and not shown as the "good guys" like when israel does something.
Israeli leaders would even be arrested for war crimes in some places and these are non-muslim countries btw do you know why ariel sharon was nicknamed the "butcher of beirut" ?

[aww_skeet_skeet]

The Jews only left their homelands because they were being persecuted. Do you honestly think that is fair in the first place and that they shouldn't be able to live on their original land?

The Jews are basically brothers and sisters of Arabia and you people treat them like they were from a different race and state they all came from "Europe."

The Jews were never from Europe. Perhaps Judaism spread like the way Islam spread over countries but it does not change the fact Jews originated in Arabia.

I'll give you another hypothetical story.

Say you lived on a piece of land for all your life, you come from the same type of race as the other inhabitants there with similarly long history. You also share a religious/cultural connection with the same lands as these people and one of your Muslim prophets was also born there but to other idiotic racist people, they treated you like dirt/abused you/tried killing you/your family/friends off because they hated you based on the fact they looked down on/disagreed about Islam and your practices. They considered you peasants. You had to escape your homeland to survive and live like human beings. You had no choice.

Generation after generation these idiotic racist people cultured the same racial and religious hatred towards Islam, killed you off for your beliefs. You suffered so much in the hands of many assholes. You finally have a chance to return to your homeland and retie with your cultural and religious roots because people started accepting you as human beings after knowing the bloodshed you suffered was inhumane and stupid, people wanted to help you.

Once you arrive back to your homeland, the other inhabitants there deny your cultural roots and your religious ties and tell you to fuck off because they also were there when you were and have taken over your lands.
Now you're telling me that is okay? I strongly disagree.

The rest I highlighted in your argument is wrong by the Israelis, they have to learn to share but the fact that Palestine denies them any land* in first place is very unfair and unnecessary.


actually the palestinians first welcomed them there... but soon the israeli jews started taking over everything and started kicking them off... how can u seriously say that the palestenians are the greedy ones.. considering they barley even have any land.. and the land tht they do have is being controlled by the israelis....

[not-now]

actually the palestinians first welcomed them there... but soon the israeli jews started taking over everything and started kicking them off... how can u seriously say that the palestenians are the greedy ones.. considering they barley even have any land.. and the land tht they do have is being controlled by the israelis....

:werd:

[aww_skeet_skeet]

6RjnvQHWyLE


watch maybe youll learn somthing...

[aww_skeet_skeet]

I wanna refrase this.. its not the jews... its the Zionists

[not-now]

6RjnvQHWyLE


watch maybe youll learn somthing...


thx great video unfortunately these people don't get too much attention.

[Khanverse]

some major cognitive dissonance in this thread.

http://www.myspace.com/khanverse

[Khanverse]

not to mention:


http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com

http://www.iamthewitness.com

http://jewishracism.blogspot.com

[not-now]

Read the post above.


I did you didn't answer my question why should palestinians care god promised jews the land ? they weren't the ones that drove them out they've been living there for generations they're not gonna give it up .

[not-now]

But that is what islamic armies did when they started war against non muslims in Egypt and neighboring Arab countires as well as European states.

Who said they were living peacefully? No nation or people want to remain under another especially when you have no rights in your holy land. Jews had no rights in their holy city under palestinian rule.

No one said jews have 'some sort of connection' to israel; we're saying they are the only ones who connected to the land.

Finally, the only one with double standards is you. You wouldn't want to hand over you holy city mecca to the jews, but you want their holy city of jerusalem? Exellent, bra freakin vo.


what a load of of rubbish be honest the only reason your supporting israel is probably because your just wanna go against muslims it's pretty obvious because everything you said in your post is false when the hell were jews living under palestinian rule ? it was the british before israel and even then I've never heard anywhere about palestinians persecuting jews why don't you find me a source ? and no jews are not the only ones connected to the land it belongs to ALL the abrahamic faiths ,
and as for the last part what a stupid argument ofcourse we wouldn't give em mecca are israelis handing back land they're holding ILLEGALLY ? would you hand over christian land ? no.
oh and btw i see you've conveniently skipped over the video ;)

[umair1234566]

What makes a home 'home'? This is the most contested real estate in the world. It is sacred to the 3 major religions.

Personally, I think that it should be made into an international zone (or Jerusalem with a separate state for each, anyways). But thats just my crazy ideas.

As for Isreal, I don't blame them. I blame the world for not foreseeing and trying to prevent this when the British mandate expired. Both parties want the same thing. A"home'" However, the Isreali 'walls' are completely unacceptable. Of course so are the suicide bombers, but the current strategy is not the right one. I think it was wrong to remove Palestinians from their land. They both need to learn to live together.

This problem has had so much impact on me that I am majoring in Political Science and International relations. Before I die, I want to see a peace there. Its like my life's goal to see it.

Anyways, just my 2 cents.

[umair1234566]

The real problem is not about whats illegal and whats not. Whats happened has happened and nothing that you say or do will help. This has been going on for so long that the world has begun to take all the bloodshed for granted. The thing is, a lot of innocent people are dying and no one cares. My sympathies are with the Palestinians, and will always remain cause as a human being, I can’t swallow the fact that a lot of kids and women are suffering. If I were in place of the Palestinians, I would have droped the toy guns I carry around, and sit with the jews in a table top meeting. I won’t let my women and children suffer and even if I have to get down my high horse, I would do so for the sake of my women and children. If I know I’m not in a position to fight with the fist (in this case the cheap toy guns), I would try and use my brain. These guys just carry out attacks, and when israelies strike back, and innocents get killed, the Palestinians are seen shouting and crying on television trying to gain sympathy. But the thing is Why do you want peoples sympathy??? Why???? Is that going to help your cause? No one cares, not even your Arab neighbors. The only ones that can make a difference is Palestinians. Sit around the table and negociate. In a situation that you are in, even if you get 30% of the land, be happy and start anew. Build up from there; train your people in technology and sutff, and become a strong nation. This is how great civilizations were formed including the jews you hate.

After second world war, Germany was fucked; all their resources were fucked by neighboring countires. They were penniless. They started from scratch and you can see where they are today. Show the world that you want a resolution; you want to end the bloodshed and you will see the west jumping in. You’re not showing any interest in peace. Take what you can get; once you have the funds; start building stuff that would help you become independent. Drop those guns and think with a brain. Your people have been suffering for generations, don’t let that trend continue cause that makes you a real loser. Your goal should be to become a powerful influential Palestine, and not the one seen on telly trying to gain sympathy. No one cares, and Palestinians are the only ones that can make a difference. Whats happened has happened. If you want to win the game, then its time you think like your enemy.

I like you more now.