Islam. Some truth against the lies on the forum.

[trustinme]

Someone said Islam used to promote slavery. The Prophet used to have sex with his slave girls etc etc.

I think this short speach shows completely the opposite to those lies. An educated man who is repeating what i've heard from others.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nZHNjzvrAxM



As i have already said to someone on this forum. I am NOT a muslim and NO i do not support Islam. I have my problems with Islam as much as the next person BUT I educate myself first unlike the other idiots.

I am fed up with all these bullshit lies about the religion. If u hate the religion make a good arguement. I protect Islam all the time from fucking Hindu idiots (i am Hindu myself) who dont know shit. They critise every religion in the world and then when i ask them how does any sane person worship a monkey god they can't even answer. They don't even know their own religion which makes me ashamed to even call them hindu.

Once we get these stupid uneducated voices out the way then i will make a thread (of an educated person) why i don't like Islam.

[baliwala]

this is going to be an interesting thread....

[trustinme]

this is going to be an interesting thread....


put it this way. If non muslims act like this and say we eliminate every muslim in the world and they are all gone.

who do u thinks next? and then what? say its hinduism or sikhism. Then those two religions will be crying for the lies that others are putting against their religions. Then we would of wished that we hated something for a real reason, not the lies and bullshit reasons that we are makng against islam.

Believe me. In UK they are already turning hindus and sikhs against muslims and once we get them out they plan to get us out. It's already started.

[jumpn jza]

i think you may be a cool new addition to the RD family...velcome

[huslterking121]

http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=239637

[gkumar]

Believe me. In UK they are already turning hindus and sikhs against muslims and once we get them out they plan to get us out. It's already started.

So who's doing this - this phasing-out?

[_Anarchist]

Bilal Assad is a very talented speaker, Mashallah. and thank you for being a voice of reason. people enjoy hating more than loving.

[trustinme]

So who's doing this - this phasing-out?


the BNP (british national party). They've been getting votes from heavily fortified asian areas by targetting hatred against muslims. Using us like fucking idiots and we're falling for it. they were targetting all asians at one point and then suddenly when its flavour of the month they switched to Islam and using us for support cos they know hindus and sikhs hate muslims. Its a fact loads hate muslims to the core.

[trustinme]

Bilal Assad is a very talented speaker, Mashallah. and thank you for being a voice of reason. people enjoy hating more than loving.


as i said i'm not a fan of islam but i have intellectual reasons, not lies.

[trustinme]

i think you may be a cool new addition to the RD family...velcome


thanks? .................................why u jumping?

[xogirlie girlxo]

Well, this is different!

[Handsome Singh]

Don't you think you're exaggerating the seriousness of the issue ? I highly doubt anyone is gonna be driven out

[CANDY23]

ur weird..ur hindu and one way ur supporting islam and another way ur like ill tell my reason y i dont like it... :sarb:

[jumpn jza]

i watched the whole thing...i like the story about the bird...

[xogirlie girlxo]

I wonder what his previous username is.

[bigkid]

someone who is not even islam giving truth about lies said on forums about islam?

[trustinme]

ur weird..ur hindu and one way ur supporting islam and another way ur like ill tell my reason y i dont like it... :sarb:


i'm trying to show u i'm not a 100% supporter of islam. I have problems with it but come on. Its like people saying that we believe theres a monkey god in the sky waiting for us to give us bananas. IF someone said that i'd be fucking pissed cos its disrespectful.

Hinduism tells us to accept peoples way of life reagrdless. Of course if its barbaric then we can't but islam isn't barbaric. Truth be told if it was then hinduism and sikhism are.

Read the religion and see the similarities. There are loads between the three not saying that any are better or worse.

[trustinme]

Don't you think you're exaggerating the seriousness of the issue ? I highly doubt anyone is gonna be driven out

i'm a doctor and trust me, what white consultants have told my dad about asian males is shocking.

Then definately mean to put us at the bottam of ladder at least, but that'll just cause us to leave, hence being forced out

[trustinme]

I wonder what his previous username is.

sorry isn't one.

I've been reading these forums for years and personally i read about all religions. I love it. Thats why i'm taking this to heart. I know fuck twat muslims who were fucking ripping me for my religion everyday for like 2 yrs.

All i used to think was fuck them just shows how ignorant they are. Now i see people doing the same to muslims and i think exactly the same. Its called being neutral

[trustinme]

i watched the whole thing...i like the story about the bird...


Are u hindu? Now tell me. That whole bird thing, doesnt that sound like hinduism at its best?

[foreverconfused]

I'm not a fan of people who attack religion unprovoked. When there are a bunch of tolerant muslims around, it's wrong to go and bash their religion.

On rd, however, a lot of the people are reacting to ridiculous claims made by fanatical Pakistanis (examples of the extreme claims: rape victims are partially to blame for enticing their rapists, it is acceptable for 9 year olds to have sex with adult men, etc.)

I do not believe non-Muslims are at fault here.

[trustinme]

I'm not a fan of people who attack religion unprovoked. When there are a bunch of tolerant muslims around, it's wrong to go and bash their religion.

On rd, however, a lot of the people are reacting to ridiculous claims made by fanatical Pakistanis (examples of the extreme claims: rape victims are partially to blame for enticing their rapists, it is acceptable for 9 year olds to have sex with adult men, etc.)

I do not believe non-Muslims are at fault here.


Actually what ur saying is partially along the lines why i have a problem with the religion, BUT we should be attacking those members for being idiots not the religion. Also i agree with u but isn't it non-muslims making the threads?

All i know is I didn't have any idea about this 9 yr old thing before. The first i heard of it was on here. So then i went to look at it on the internet. There are many websites explaining the real age of his wife (forgotten her name). Now if i can find it then how come the people who make the threads can't ? Why they have to post it on RD?

Muslims on this website are ignorant as fuck. They know so little and they'll defend their religion at all costs making stupid arguments, but why do we (hindus) and other religions have to go and provoke them and fight them? What if they start bashing hinduism? I'd be pissed off cos a complete lack of respect (which is what we are showing) but you'd have loads of hindus not knowing anything talking shit.

The people who make the threads aren't intrested in answers. If they were they wouldn't come to a place like this to find them, Just intrested in creating problems.


Why cant we all just live and let live. Why all this fighting?

[esotericist]

I am fed up with all these bullshit lies about the religion. If u hate the religion make a good arguement. I protect Islam all the time from fucking Hindu idiots (i am Hindu myself) who dont know shit. They critise every religion in the world and then when i ask them how does any sane person worship a monkey god they can't even answer. They don't even know their own religion which makes me ashamed to even call them hindu.

oh wow.. what an intelligent question!

[trustinme]

oh wow.. what an intelligent question!

yeah but easily answered if u know anything at all about hindism.

[esotericist]

yeah but easily answered if u know anything at all about hindism.
i suppose the sarcasm wasn't evident. but yes, it is indeed easy to answer.

[Space-Cowboy]

I am fed up with all these bullshit lies about the religion. If u hate the religion make a good arguement. I protect Islam all the time from fucking Hindu idiots (i am Hindu myself) who dont know shit. They critise every religion in the world and then when i ask them how does any sane person worship a monkey god they can't even answer. They don't even know their own religion which makes me ashamed to even call them hindu.


It is what Hanuman [aka "monkey god"] symbolizes that is being worshipped rather than the 'monkey god' itself. There's your answer.

[Monica152]

in Hinduism it all started out with om
then there was one god split into 3 main forms
(not choosing my words correctly but hope you get it )
bramha: giver of life
Vishnu: supports your life
and Shiva: gives death
and you said how can hindus worship a monkey god
In hindu religion they say that whenever a great evil comes upon earth
or the world itself comes to a point where theres only destruction
god himself gives birth to himself therefore there is a new god
(i know i could say this better in hindi) by the way the "monkey god"
is Hunuman ji
:o
and no i dont have no problems with Islam
Just you have to remember that there are paki- muslims mostly in these forums - don't have anything against them either just believe that they do not have tolerance to other religions
and if you remember they have destroyed all the mandirs that were in pakistan
its just not right to destroy a place of worship
i know that was a long time ago
but i don't see their mentality changing
and that will only cause more problems with their country and they are taking Islam to an extreme
If you cross a limit to anything you will eventually make it look bad

[trustinme]

It is what Hanuman [aka "monkey god"] symbolizes that is being worshipped rather than the 'monkey god' itself. There's your answer.


lol, yeah i know. I'm hindu (if u read all the posts). I'm just saying that, as muslims cant answer questions, hindus cant as well,but just imagine someone asking that question on the forum and loads of hindus who don't have a clue answering with all their wierd answers.

only difference between islam on this forum and hinduism is that no-ones asking hindus questions in an insulting way, or even making false statements about hindus in an insulting way.

I don't think people should do it cos as i said, if they wanted answers they wouldn't post it they would find them out.

[Space-Cowboy]

lol, yeah i know. I'm hindu (if u read all the posts). I'm just saying that, as muslims cant answer questions, hindus cant as well,but just imagine someone asking that question on the forum and loads of hindus who don't have a clue answering with all their wierd answers.

only difference between islam on this forum and hinduism is that no-ones asking hindus questions in an insulting way, or even making false statements about hindus in an insulting way.

I don't think people should do it cos as i said, if they wanted answers they wouldn't post it they would find them out.

Which is why I should really retire from these forums very soon.

[ewwwww]

Religion was invented as a way to manipulate people and all of you still fall for it. Lame!

[trustinme]

in Hinduism it all started out with om
then there was one god split into 3 main forms
(not choosing my words correctly but hope you get it )
bramha: giver of life
Vishnu: supports your life
and Shiva: gives death
and you said how can hindus worship a monkey god
In hindu religion they say that whenever a great evil comes upon earth
or the world itself comes to a point where theres only destruction
god himself gives birth to himself therefore there is a new god
(i know i could say this better in hindi) by the way the "monkey god"
is Hunuman ji
:o
and no i dont have no problems with Islam
Just you have to remember that there are paki- muslims mostly in these forums - don't have anything against them either just believe that they do not have tolerance to other religions
and if you remember they have destroyed all the mandirs that were in pakistan
its just not right to destroy a place of worship
i know that was a long time ago
but i don't see their mentality changing
and that will only cause more problems with their country and they are taking Islam to an extreme
If you cross a limit to anything you will eventually make it look bad


you're right but i don't know if ur from England or not. If u are i think u should read the independant. Its the best paper cos it tells the truth as it is.

I can't say specifically about the mandirs. I mean it seems like that was completely uncalled for, but i remember one article where they broke buddist temples. It was sick. All the news papers condeming it and rightly so. But the independant also included in their article how many muslim mosques are being broken down everywhere and no one article has been written about them. This was well before september 11th and all. Now i'm not saying it makes it right, but the newspaper (as it does brilliantly) poses the question.

If its not ok for buddist temples to be broken down then why is it ok for mosques to be broken down? And if its not, then how come they aren't being reported in newspapers?

All i could say is, "damn good point". It our temples were being destroyed and no-one said anything then they critisize us for breaking one of theirs then i would be mad.

Whenever i see a critizism of a religion i just turn it around and imagine if hinduism was in that state. That way i understand why theres alot of hatred in the world or how silly and violent people are.

[ewwwww]

lol, yeah i know. I'm hindu (if u read all the posts). I'm just saying that, as muslims cant answer questions, hindus cant as well,but just imagine someone asking that question on the forum and loads of hindus who don't have a clue answering with all their wierd answers.

only difference between islam on this forum and hinduism is that no-ones asking hindus questions in an insulting way, or even making false statements about hindus in an insulting way.

I don't think people should do it cos as i said, if they wanted answers they wouldn't post it they would find them out.
Paradise/heaven is in your head. There is no right or wrong religion. If there is a God, there is only 1 & everyone worships divinity in their own way. At the end of the day it doesnt matter because no person has come back from the dead and proven that the heaven that all these people hope to go to does exist.

[trustinme]

Religion was invented as a way to manipulate people and all of you still fall for it. Lame!


Science was used to try and turn people away from god and come up with an explaination for everything, but sorely failed due to lack of evidence in many fields, and hence use lies with no basis to cover their own deficiencies.


..................................and you all still fall for it

[trustinme]

Paradise/heaven is in your head. There is no right or wrong religion. If there is a God, there is only 1 & everyone worships divinity in their own way. At the end of the day it doesnt matter because no person has come back from the dead and proven that the heaven that all these people hope to go to does exist.


there has to be 1 right religion or they can all be wrong.

If they all contradict each other in some way then if one is right then the rest are wrong. If not then they can all be wrong.

Its like saying if u have 1 apple in the bag then there can't be 2 or 3 or 4 cos then you are condradicting the fact of there being one apple in the bag

(if u get what i mean)

[Monica152]

you're right but i don't know if ur from England or not. If u are i think u should read the independant. Its the best paper cos it tells the truth as it is.

I can't say specifically about the mandirs. I mean it seems like that was completely uncalled for, but i remember one article where they broke buddist temples. It was sick. All the news papers condeming it and rightly so. But the independant also included in their article how many muslim mosques are being broken down everywhere and no one article has been written about them. This was well before september 11th and all. Now i'm not saying it makes it right, but the newspaper (as it does brilliantly) poses the question.

If its not ok for buddist temples to be broken down then why is it ok for mosques to be broken down? And if its not, then how come they aren't being reported in newspapers?

All i could say is, "damn good point". It our temples were being destroyed and no-one said anything then they critisize us for breaking one of theirs then i would be mad.

Whenever i see a critizism of a religion i just turn it around and imagine if hinduism was in that state. That way i understand why theres alot of hatred in the world or how silly and violent people are.

nah IM from New York
Im a Hindu
and growing up I was taught god was god no matter if what name you gave him, Ive been to madirs, gurdwaras, and churches i dont mind going to any place of worship because in the end its considered god's house and i think thats just the way most hindus are, we dont take our religion to extreme and any place of worship is considered holy and even though yes they did destroy our mandirs we wouldnt destroy their masjid because in the end we did look above that which is why I particularly don't like Pakis not all ,but some who are still ignorant enough to argue about whos better
That just shows are some still do not know how to be tolerant
But I haven't heard about mosques being broken down but that's just as wrong
and didn't get what you meant by the last part??

[Space-Cowboy]

Science was used to try and turn people away from god and come up with an explaination for everything, but sorely failed due to lack of evidence in many fields, and hence use lies with no basis to cover their own deficiencies.


..................................and you all still fall for it


... Which 'lies' are you talking about? ..... And it's the job of science to come up with explanations for the world around us. If anything it's been much more successful at that than religion. If you want to talk about 'evidence'.... religion by definition of 'blind faith' lacks evidence for pretty much everything it claims, including the existence of "god".

there has to be 1 right religion or they can all be wrong.

If they all contradict each other in some way then if one is right then the rest are wrong. If not then they can all be wrong.

Its like saying if u have 1 apple in the bag then there can't be 2 or 3 or 4 cos then you are condradicting the fact of there being one apple in the bag

(if u get what i mean)

Which shows you don't quite understand Hinduism yourself... And the rest of what you said didn't make any sense.

[Arshy]

Someone said Islam used to promote slavery. The Prophet used to have sex with his slave girls etc etc.

I think this short speach shows completely the opposite to those lies. An educated man who is repeating what i've heard from others.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nZHNjzvrAxM



As i have already said to someone on this forum. I am NOT a muslim and NO i do not support Islam. I have my problems with Islam as much as the next person BUT I educate myself first unlike the other idiots.

I am fed up with all these bullshit lies about the religion. If u hate the religion make a good arguement. I protect Islam all the time from fucking Hindu idiots (i am Hindu myself) who dont know shit. They critise every religion in the world and then when i ask them how does any sane person worship a monkey god they can't even answer. They don't even know their own religion which makes me ashamed to even call them hindu.

Once we get these stupid uneducated voices out the way then i will make a thread (of an educated person) why i don't like Islam.

Just an observation, if you're hindu, how can you question others sanity on worshipping idols, when as a hindu yourself you would be doing the same?

Yes it's a genereal question, Yes i would like a rational reply.

[Arshy]

Having now read other replies in this thread, my question has been answered.

Thank you.

[ewwwww]

Science was used to try and turn people away from god and come up with an explaination for everything, but sorely failed due to lack of evidence in many fields, and hence use lies with no basis to cover their own deficiencies.


..................................and you all still fall for it
You seem very brainwashed.

People did not know how to explain many things, so they attributed it to god.

Are you that stupid to believe in something you have never seen? How do people go to hell if god forgives everyone? why do people die of starvation if god can save them? why do people die fighting over religion when god can put an end to this by revealing himself? Enlighten me.

[ewwwww]

there has to be 1 right religion or they can all be wrong.

If they all contradict each other in some way then if one is right then the rest are wrong. If not then they can all be wrong.

Its like saying if u have 1 apple in the bag then there can't be 2 or 3 or 4 cos then you are condradicting the fact of there being one apple in the bag

(if u get what i mean)
Now if there is a right religion & God exists, why are we fighting about it? God should show the right religion. What the hell is up with all the divisions withing a single religion? And did I mention how blind faith has blinded your sense of being? When all the prohets were around, people belived that the world was a square; now we know that is not true.

[jumpn jza]

Are u hindu? Now tell me. That whole bird thing, doesnt that sound like hinduism at its best?

i really dont know what religion i'am, i was born a catholic though...but i rejected catholicism for being retarded...

[PrOfFaSeE]

20 pages
ok go

[Echelon]

With re: slave girls, are you contesting all accounts of Mohammed having sex with slaves?

[boysfromthesouth]

no one would be a prophet if they were treating women like slaves. That don't make no sense.

[boysfromthesouth]

if you had very straight muslim friends you'd know what does and does not tolerate.

[**bambina**]

I think people should just really mind their own buisness, stick to their own beliefs and get on with life.

It doesnt matter if your muslim/hindu/christian/jewish/sikh/parsi and so on.... No religion is better then the other and no religion is worse.

And the question of sex with minors... its only since people are being educated that they believe its wrong.. Sex with minors happend in EVERY country and in EVERY religion many years ago.

If people were really interested to know as to why/what does one religion do, theres books out there to educate yourself. Dont come on RD and ask a bunch of 14-20 yr olds. They are growing up themself's and they are still educating themself's.

Religion bashing doesnt make a person 'cool'. People should look at themself's first and then comment onto what they should tell others to believe.

[random guy]

Someone said Islam used to promote slavery. The Prophet used to have sex with his slave girls etc etc.

I think this short speach shows completely the opposite to those lies. An educated man who is repeating what i've heard from others.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nZHNjzvrAxM



As i have already said to someone on this forum. I am NOT a muslim and NO i do not support Islam. I have my problems with Islam as much as the next person BUT I educate myself first unlike the other idiots.

I am fed up with all these bullshit lies about the religion. If u hate the religion make a good arguement. I protect Islam all the time from fucking Hindu idiots (i am Hindu myself) who dont know shit. They critise every religion in the world and then when i ask them how does any sane person worship a monkey god they can't even answer. They don't even know their own religion which makes me ashamed to even call them hindu.

Once we get these stupid uneducated voices out the way then i will make a thread (of an educated person) why i don't like Islam.

y do u care? Its not your religion. In every religion you have people who critisise every other religion whether what they say is true or not. Thats life.

[Clueless_uk]

in Hinduism it all started out with om
then there was one god split into 3 main forms
(not choosing my words correctly but hope you get it )
bramha: giver of life
Vishnu: supports your life
and Shiva: gives death
and you said how can hindus worship a monkey god
In hindu religion they say that whenever a great evil comes upon earth
or the world itself comes to a point where theres only destruction
god himself gives birth to himself therefore there is a new god
(i know i could say this better in hindi) by the way the "monkey god"
is Hunuman ji
:o
and no i dont have no problems with Islam
Just you have to remember that there are paki- muslims mostly in these forums - don't have anything against them either just believe that they do not have tolerance to other religions
and if you remember they have destroyed all the mandirs that were in pakistan
its just not right to destroy a place of worship
i know that was a long time ago
but i don't see their mentality changing
and that will only cause more problems with their country and they are taking Islam to an extreme
If you cross a limit to anything you will eventually make it look bad

Dude the guy was not having a bash at Hinduism - read the thread from the beginning. Jeebus.

[Clueless_uk]

I think people should just really mind their own buisness, stick to their own beliefs and get on with life.

It doesnt matter if your muslim/hindu/christian/jewish/sikh/parsi and so on.... No religion is better then the other and no religion is worse.

And the question of sex with minors... its only since people are being educated that they believe its wrong.. Sex with minors happend in EVERY country and in EVERY religion many years ago.

If people were really interested to know as to why/what does one religion do, theres books out there to educate yourself. Dont come on RD and ask a bunch of 14-20 yr olds. They are growing up themself's and they are still educating themself's.

Religion bashing doesnt make a person 'cool'. People should look at themself's first and then comment onto what they should tell others to believe.

Couldn't say it better myself.

[mista nice guy]

y don't y'all just shut tha fuck up, this guy isn't a hindu he's just spitting shit and everyone is swallowing it.

[mad_paki]

I don't care if people hate islam, they will get there punishment on the day of judgement. What pisses me of is muslims hating muslims.

[trustinme]

Just an observation, if you're hindu, how can you question others sanity on worshipping idols, when as a hindu yourself you would be doing the same?

Yes it's a genereal question, Yes i would like a rational reply.


The question wasnt a real one. It was like an example question. I used it cos this is the exact question that people used to shout at me in an abusive way. My point was that if u ask Hindus on the street this question most of them wouldn't know the true answer.

I'm just using it as an example. I'm all for peace between religions because every religion is guilty for hate crimes and killing and torturing innocents. Thats Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Christianity all of them.

and this doesn't mean religions are evil. I think if we add all the numbers killed in the name of religion and put it up against "progression of nations war" where 60,000,000 native americans were slaughtered, then i don't think that they would even come close.

[trustinme]

nah IM from New York
Im a Hindu
and growing up I was taught god was god no matter if what name you gave him, Ive been to madirs, gurdwaras, and churches i dont mind going to any place of worship because in the end its considered god's house and i think thats just the way most hindus are, we dont take our religion to extreme and any place of worship is considered holy and even though yes they did destroy our mandirs we wouldnt destroy their masjid because in the end we did look above that which is why I particularly don't like Pakis not all ,but some who are still ignorant enough to argue about whos better
That just shows are some still do not know how to be tolerant
But I haven't heard about mosques being broken down but that's just as wrong
and didn't get what you meant by the last part??


sorry but ur very missinformed. You think our hindu brothers and sisters don't do anything in retaliation? I think you haven't even heard what the non-hindus (as i call them) did in gujurat.

http://hrw.org/reports/2002/india/India0402-03.htm#P527_94439

this is a report of what happened written by a completely independant source.

and before u bring up the Godra train burning u should read this:

http://communalism.blogspot.com/2005/02/godhra-train-burning-incident-and.html

[trustinme]

You seem very brainwashed.

People did not know how to explain many things, so they attributed it to god.

Are you that stupid to believe in something you have never seen? How do people go to hell if god forgives everyone? why do people die of starvation if god can save them? why do people die fighting over religion when god can put an end to this by revealing himself? Enlighten me.


you seem very brainwashed. People like Richard Dawkins is like the biggest idiot in the world. His arguement is you can't prove anything and then attacks god. Well u can't argue that because its a stupid arguement. He knows that he can't be beaten because he goes on even the thing u see and feel may not be real.

You ask questions like why do people die of starvation? or why they die fighting? Why don't you ask the question well why wouldn't they? Did God say to us, no-one will ever starve? or did he say he will not let anyone die in violence?

Why don't u answer that question? Have u ever thought maybe God neevr wants to get involved? Maybe he wants us to get on with it. If u look at what does these bad things in the world then just have to look at humans. We're the reason and we're the ones who are suffering. I never read anything from anywhere saying that God would come down and stop things like this.

As for belief in god. Let me ask you something. You happily ask all these questions so obviosuly u must be very intelligent and/or knowledgeable on this matter so....... u tell me why don't u believe in god? Where is ur 100% proof god does not exist? explain to me.

[trustinme]

... Which 'lies' are you talking about? ..... And it's the job of science to come up with explanations for the world around us. If anything it's been much more successful at that than religion. If you want to talk about 'evidence'.... religion by definition of 'blind faith' lacks evidence for pretty much everything it claims, including the existence of "god".



Which shows you don't quite understand Hinduism yourself... And the rest of what you said didn't make any sense.


I understand hinduism. Hinduism never says all religions are right. It calls for acceptance of all religions. You accept them but you believe in hinduism.That doesnt detract from the fact that if they are all apparently from god and they contradict each other then either they are all wrong or 1 of them is the pure path.

again like i said to the other poster, wheres ur proof that u talk about for god not existing. You have no proof either so ur arguement is neither here or there.

[Space-Cowboy]

I understand hinduism. Hinduism never says all religions are right. It calls for acceptance of all religions. You accept them but you believe in hinduism.That doesnt detract from the fact that if they are all apparently from god and they contradict each other then either they are all wrong or 1 of them is the pure path.

Actually, yes it does say that all traditions will lead to the Ultimate. You need to do a lot more research before you make such ignorant claims.


again like i said to the other poster, wheres ur proof that u talk about for god not existing. You have no proof either so ur arguement is neither here or there.

It's up to you, the believer and the one who made the claim to prove that God exists... not the other way around. The burden of proof is on you. This is how basic science and logic works.

[trustinme]

Now if there is a right religion & God exists, why are we fighting about it? God should show the right religion. What the hell is up with all the divisions withing a single religion? And did I mention how blind faith has blinded your sense of being? When all the prohets were around, people belived that the world was a square; now we know that is not true.


This is something i do not understand but in the end of the day i'm human. I mean how can i even start to know everythign god has planned. We as humans are too arrogant to think they must know everything god has planned (for those who believe in god)

as for blind faith. BLind faith is for idiots. Blind faith is ok BUT it must be based on a facts and intelligent thinking foundation. Anyone who only has blind faith alone is an idiot cos they could believe in anything even 100 gods all looking like the teletubbies.

If you use intelligent thought and deep personal unbiased thoughts then u can see how there is more to religion than just a bunch of made up words to get people to follow blindly.

[trustinme]

With re: slave girls, are you contesting all accounts of Mohammed having sex with slaves?


u need to watch the video that started this thread. It will explain the whole way of thinking in Islam on this matter.

and from what i know (and i have limited knowledge) and from what i have read.

He never had sex with anyone who wasn't his wife and you cannot take slaves as wives until you have released them from their slave duties. Hence they failed to be slaves and then if they wanted they could marry their past owners, i they wanted.

[trustinme]

I think people should just really mind their own buisness, stick to their own beliefs and get on with life.

It doesnt matter if your muslim/hindu/christian/jewish/sikh/parsi and so on.... No religion is better then the other and no religion is worse.

And the question of sex with minors... its only since people are being educated that they believe its wrong.. Sex with minors happend in EVERY country and in EVERY religion many years ago.

If people were really interested to know as to why/what does one religion do, theres books out there to educate yourself. Dont come on RD and ask a bunch of 14-20 yr olds. They are growing up themself's and they are still educating themself's.

Religion bashing doesnt make a person 'cool'. People should look at themself's first and then comment onto what they should tell others to believe.


Wow, will you marry me...... :kiss:

pweaseeeeeeeeeee :blue:

[trustinme]

y do u care? Its not your religion. In every religion you have people who critisise every other religion whether what they say is true or not. Thats life.


its cos i wanna stand up for whats right. and i hope one day out of all the muslims reading this thread, i hope they see a different side to hinduiam. One of tolerance and also standing up for the truht even if it is against other hindus.

Hopefully one day one of those muslims will stand up for a hindu and think "i'm muslim and so i want to stand up for what is right and what is true, even if it means i go against my fellow muslims"

[trustinme]

y don't y'all just shut tha fuck up, this guy isn't a hindu he's just spitting shit and everyone is swallowing it.


thanks. I assure u i am hindu. Again its people like u i hate. You're saying i'm not hindu because i'm telling the truth?

anything i've said about Islam tell me i'm wrong. Go on. i know u can't cos why the fuck would i say anything, if i didnt know it was the truth about another religion

Read all the posts and then u'll understand why i'm doing this and if u don't your just another racist bitch who causes problems for others.


Every religion is responsible to bad acts. (including atheists). Dont just look at other religions and judge them. Also look at ur own and realise the truth.

[Clueless_uk]

its cos i wanna stand up for whats right. and i hope one day out of all the muslims reading this thread, i hope they see a different side to hinduiam. One of tolerance and also standing up for the truht even if it is against other hindus.

Hopefully one day one of those muslims will stand up for a hindu and think "i'm muslim and so i want to stand up for what is right and what is true, even if it means i go against my fellow muslims"

A logical thing to do in order to live togther in harmony.

[Clueless_uk]

y don't y'all just shut tha fuck up, this guy isn't a hindu he's just spitting shit and everyone is swallowing it.

Don't you have a slightly Ironic username?

[trustinme]

Actually, yes it does say that all traditions will lead to the Ultimate. You need to do a lot more research before you make such ignorant claims.



It's up to you, the believer and the one who made the claim to prove that God exists... not the other way around. The burden of proof is on you. This is how basic science and logic works.


really? it says all religions are right? just cos it says all religions will lead to the ulitamte it doesnt meant the same thing and if u read the last sentence instead of waiting for ur turn to speak, I said PURER PATH.

What your saying is is that all religions are exactly the same and all of them are equal in good and bad and all religions believe in the same god (even though christianity speaks of the trinity and others speak of one god and no other). They are all different but this just means there are better paths than others.

[Space-Cowboy]

really? it says all religions are right? just cos it says all religions will lead to the ulitamte it doesnt meant the same thing and if u read the last sentence instead of waiting for ur turn to speak, I said PURER PATH.

Again, if you knew anything about Hinduism you'd know there's no such thing as "purer path". And, the fact that all religions will lead to the Ultimate Truth means that all religions can be the 'correct path'. Which goes against what you said initially:

"Hinduism never says all religions are right."

Which is clearly wrong on your part.


What your saying is is that all religions are exactly the same and all of them are equal in good and bad and all religions believe in the same god (even though christianity speaks of the trinity and others speak of one god and no other).

I didn't say all religions are the same, I said all religions are equal and can be 'True'. Again, there's no such thing as 'pure path'.


They are all different but this just means there are better paths than others.

Hinduism never says that one path is better than another. It says it is up to the individual to choose a path that best suits them, while still knowing that all paths are equally valid. Again, this shows me you lack a basic knowledge of Hinduism. Instead of wasting time here, it would be best if you went and actually did the research.

[Echelon]

u need to watch the video that started this thread. It will explain the whole way of thinking in Islam on this matter.

and from what i know (and i have limited knowledge) and from what i have read.

He never had sex with anyone who wasn't his wife and you cannot take slaves as wives until you have released them from their slave duties. Hence they failed to be slaves and then if they wanted they could marry their past owners, i they wanted.I think my main criticism with Mohammed's conduct is shown here:
Some scholars criticise the Islamic world for allegedly having allowed slavery to persist for some time after it was abolished in the West. Rodney Stark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Stark) points to the example set by Muhammad as a possible reason for this, saying that "the fundamental problem facing Muslim theologians vis-a-vis the morality of slavery is that Muhammad bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves." Although he does admit that Muhammad "advise(d) that slaves be treated well," he contrasts Islam with Christianity, implying that Christian theologians wouldn't have been able to "work their way around the biblical acceptance of slavery" if Jesus had owned slaves like Muhammad did.[53] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#_note-42)
Muhammad is criticised for apparently having had a child by a slave girl called Maria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_al-Qibtiyya) or Mariyah, who was a present from the Byzantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire) ruler of Egypt. By some accounts Muhammad did not marry her because she would not convert to Islam,[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#_note-43) though other Islamic researchers claim that Muhammad was indeed married to Mariyah.[55] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#_note-44)
Whether he married her or not isn't conclusive as to her treatment and function on the initial. She was initially a slave, and she did give birth to a child that was his -- evidence of his actions.

[Z4K5T4R]

I think my main criticism with Mohammed's conduct is shown here:

Whether he married her or not isn't conclusive as to her treatment and function on the initial. She was initially a slave, and she did give birth to a child that was his -- evidence of his actions.
I think my main criticism with Mohammed's conduct is shown here:

Whether he married her or not isn't conclusive as to her treatment and function on the initial. She was initially a slave, and she did give birth to a child that was his -- evidence of his actions.
As far as Islam is aware Umm Maria Al-Qabtiyya(May Allah be pleased with her) was married to Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) and had a child Ibrahim that died at a young age. She was a hand maid servant from the King of Egypt our Hazrat married her, if you notice he married many Women from different backgrounds some divorced.. widows..

[Clueless_uk]

I think my main criticism with Mohammed's conduct is shown here:

Whether he married her or not isn't conclusive as to her treatment and function on the initial. She was initially a slave, and she did give birth to a child that was his -- evidence of his actions.

I have not looked this up myself...but I remember someone telling me that back then in order for a female slave to be set free she must have a child.

I don't know how true this is but it's something I have been meaning to look into.

[Echelon]

As far as Islam is aware Umm Maria Al-Qabtiyya(May Allah be pleased with her) was married to Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) and had a child Ibrahim that died at a young age. She was a hand maid servant from the King of Egypt our Hazrat married her, if you notice he married many Women from different backgrounds some divorced.. widows..The question is, did he have sex with her before/after she was set free?

[Z4K5T4R]

The question is, did he have sex with her before/after she was set free?
Obviously.. not before.

[Echelon]

Obviously.. not before.
Where's the evidence?

[Z4K5T4R]

Where's the evidence?I'm sure given the time i can pull out something for you babes.

Talking about evidence - depends what sort you want either a written biased information or actually go back 1400 years.

[Echelon]

Please show me anything so I can give your prophet more cred.

[Echelon]

Why is that, SugarHillSides? Is it because he is the obvious exception to the rule and he can do whatever he wants?

[Z4K5T4R]

Please show me anything so I can give your prophet more cred.
Well if you start off with an ignorant mind you finish off being an ignorant.

I could be here days on having an argumentative conversation trying to convince that Hazrat Muhammad (Peace be Upon him) was not a Peadophile nor was he involved in pre-marital relationships that involves a illigetimate child being born.

[Z4K5T4R]

Why is that, SugarHillSides? Is it because he is the obvious exception to the rule and he can do whatever he wants?Everyone does whatever they want, however, his actions were not negative such as gambling, pre-marital sx, deceiving people etc etc. That's why there is an exception to what he did because he was near to perfection as a Human being. Obviously, he is a human being and human beings have faults. The way he thought was not of a being that is nowadays.

[Z4K5T4R]

Why are you even wasting your time? The Prophet(swt) didn't have to live according to the the standards of other people.
Yeh you're right.

[Echelon]

Well if you start off with an ignorant mind you finish off being an ignorant.

I could be here days on having an argumentative conversation trying to convince that Hazrat Muhammad (Peace be Upon him) was not a Peadophile nor was he involved in pre-marital relationships that involves a illigetimate child being born.No, I'm asking you whether you can support your claims with schloarly arguments. You've already admitted that your conviction is through your feeling and faith and saying it's 'obvious' to you that he acted in a particular way.

I'm a little bit more objective minded, in that I'd assume that he'd have sex with a slave which was traded to him before his marriage to her (which is arguable), granted a child was born.

If it was so 'obvious' to you and to us, then why don't you provide us with sufficient evidence to support your view.

[Echelon]

All I'm saying is that it's pointless to sit here and try and dig something up about the Prophet(saw) that may or may not change your opinion of him, and what he brought. You are obviously set in your thinking, so it doesn't matter what she brings forth, or what I bring forth...you aint about to change your mind, so this is all a waste of time. All we can do is convey the message, which we've already done, time and time again...anything beyond that would be proslytizing...and muslims don't proslytize.
No, I'm asking you to provide sufficent arguments for your convictions. Althought I have crticisms against islaam as with any other religion, I also see its beauty. You on the other hand appear to be more mentally pre-disposed than I am about Islaam, because you're a follower. I'm neither a follower or a contester. just a critique in judgement.

[Z4K5T4R]

No, I'm asking you whether you can support your claims with schloarly arguments. You've already admitted that your conviction is through your feeling and faith and saying it's 'obvious' to you that he acted in a particular way.

I'm a little bit more objective minded, in that I'd assume that he'd have sex with a slave which was traded to him before his marriage to her (which is arguable), granted a child was born.

If it was so 'obvious' to you and to us, then why don't you provide us with sufficient evidence to support your view.Not really to do with feelings alot of things i might mention is to do with pure reading about Islam. yes, you can be a follower, but thats something that my parents put me on track - but to have to follow the religion within, you have to learn about it.


If he had bad intentions and negative actions then the Man himself wouldn't of had so many people reverting to Islam in those days. Yes, he would have been called ''The Liar'' so on, however how can you convince people that this is the way forward if he had bad deeds? Thats' why i say isn't it ''obvious''?

[Echelon]

Not really to do with feelings alot of things i might mention is to do with pure reading about Islam. yes, you can be a follower, but thats something that my parents put me on track - but to have to follow the religion within, you have to learn about it.


If he had bad intentions and negative actions then the Man himself wouldn't of had so many people reverting to Islam in those days. Yes, he would have been called ''The Liar'' so on, however how can you convince people that this is the way forward if he had bad deeds?
People of a culture back in those days will perceive him differently. They may have seen some rationale in his actions. But actions of a prophet should be timeless.

Hypoethetically, if we lived in a world where it was reasonable to kill a man, do you think a prophet who kills without any compelling reason, justifiable in his actions?

Anyways, you're trying to avoid answering my request, so how do you know he had sex with her after marriage?

[Echelon]

Yes, and that's what makes me a muslim(one who submits), and that's ultimately what it's all about at the end of the day.

Bottom line, slavery was embedded into the fabric of every society at that time, to do away with it completely at that point wouldn't be a realistic scenario. Regardless, slavery in those days was an economic institution that wasn't NEARLY as de-humanizing as what you and I know as slavery thanks to european racialists. I mean look, out of all the things Islaam is about, and out of every episode of the Prophets(saw) life, why are we even dwelling on this?
So you're going to admit that mohammed had slaves? It's not about whether it was perfectly okay for a man to have slaves back in those days. This is a prophet, not just any man, he should be enlightened with timeless knowledge, not knowledge and action which is perverted by the worldly fashions and fads of the status-quo.

[Z4K5T4R]

People of a culture back in those days will perceive him differently. They may have seen some rationale in his actions. But actions of a prophet should be timeless.

Hypoethetically, if we lived in a world where it was reasonable to kill a man, do you think a prophet who kills without any compelling reason, justifiable in his actions?

Anyways, you're trying to avoid answering my request, so how do you know he had sex with her after marriage?A Man who had great Power over his followers, and he did such thing without it being notified? There were alot of People that were against him am sure such a thing would have been spreading around faster than news nowadays.

Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) was accused of Adultry with a Man called Safwan that merely helped her reach home. Rumours spread so fast about her actions that even Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) had doubts. Therefore, if rumours can fly sky high for Aisha (May Allah be Please With her) then imagine the story of Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh)

Like I said before I don't have solid evidence (physical evidence) only written words if they help. And it is also common sense and a open mind to understand certain things.

[Clueless_uk]

Title:
If Islam Wanted to Discourage Slavery, then Why did the Prophet Keep a Slave Girl

Question/Comments:

In your answer to "Slave girls as wives" you had stated that "Islam accepted slavery as a social vice and gave directives for its gradual removal and ultimate extinction". If this was the case, then why is it reported that the Prophet (pbuh) had sexual relations with his Coptic Christian slave girl and did not marry her until she delivered his child? Please clarify the authenticity of this report. If this were true, then the example of the Prophet is surely counter to the statement you made about Islam considering slavery as a social vice!



Answer:

To answer your question, it seems necessary that two separate aspects of the corrective measures taken by Islam, for the gradual abolition of the institution of slavery be clearly understood.

Firstly, the fact that Islam considered the institution of slavery a social vice is the obvious corollary of the various directives of Islam regarding freeing of slaves. Had Islam not considered slavery to be a social vice, there was no reason to promote freeing of slaves as a great virtue.

Secondly, the words 'Islam accepted slavery as a social vice' clearly imply that even though Islam considered slavery to be a vice against humanity, yet due to its deep roots in the world society, at the time, and due to the extra-ordinary social implications that could have followed any drastic measures of the complete and immediate abolition of the institution, Islam tolerated its existence till the time that the world was emotionally and psychologically prepared for its abolition. During this intermediary time, it was equally essential for the Prophet (pbuh) to promote the moral value of treating one's slaves with respect, honor, love and justice.

Mr. Amar Ellahi Lone, in his answer to a question regarding the marriages of the Prophet (pbuh) writes:

As far as the slave girl Hadhrat Maria Qibtia (ra) is concerned, the Prophet (pbuh) kept her as a slave girl because he was barred from marrying those slave girls who were not part of the booty of war, in the same verse that governed his marriage regulations. Hadhrat Maria Qibtia (ra) was presented to the Prophet (pbuh) by the ruler of Egypt[1]. He loved her very much and treated her very well, in order to set an example for the Muslims in treatment of their slaves.

It should be kept in mind that although Islam condemned slavery, it did not abolish it instantly. The institution of slavery was so deep rooted in the society that it was not possible to do away with it at once. In fact Islam adopted a gradual approach towards it by giving incentives to free slaves in return for reward in the hereafter or by treating them fairly and respectably. It was during this intermediary period that the Prophet (pbuh) set an example of good treatment of the slaves, in the case of Hadhrat Maria Qibtia (ra), for the Muslims to follow. The other example that he set in relation to slaves was in the case of Hadhrat Zayed (ra), whom he freed and made his adopted son. There is no strong evidence of any other slave girl in the household of the Prophet (pbuh).

It is clear from the accounts of the historians that the Prophet (pbuh) treated Maria Qibtia (ra) in a manner that was truly a socio-moral example for the society to follow. No difference can be seen in his treatment of Maria Qibtia (ra) and the rest of his wives (ra). She was given a separate living quarter, like the other wives and was never treated in a derogatory way by the Prophet (pbuh) or any one of his spouses.

The Prophet (pbuh) did not marry Maria Qibtia (ra) even after the birth of her child.

It should be remembered that the correction of all such social vices that are as deeply rooted in a society as was slavery in the world of old, clearly need a two faceted approach in their correction. Firstly, the society should be psychologically, emotionally and physically prepared to relieve itself of such vices - which can sometimes translate into a long-term corrective process. Secondly, during this intermediary time, the society should also be taught to deal with the prevalent situation in the best possible manner.

This may answer your questions.

[Echelon]

A Man who had great Power over his followers, and he did such thing without it being notified? There were alot of People that were against him am sure such a thing would have been spreading around faster than news nowadays.

Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) was accused of Adultry with a Man called Safwan that merely helped her reach home. Rumours spread so fast about her actions that even Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) had doubts. Therefore, if rumours can fly sky high for Aisha (May Allah be Please With her) then imagine the story of Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh)

Like I said before I don't have solid evidence (physical evidence) only written words if they help. And it is also common sense and a open mind to understand certain things.
Show me the written evidence.

[Z4K5T4R]

Show me the written evidence.No Problem baby once i have time - becuase im not going to pull out any information form the internet as most people find this to be the easiest way.

Also, alot of my knowledge comes from books not internet sources - i can send you some books maybe?

[sexxichic2envy]

Something tells me you're a Muslim posing as a Hindu :google:

[DasJa]

Something tells me you're a Muslim posing as a Hindu :google:
Captain Obvious has arrived :kekeke:

[sexxichic2envy]

Captain Obvious has arrived :kekeke:
Only 4 pages too late :kekeke:

[DasJa]

Only 4 pages too late :kekeke:
youz a woman. We understand :Paper:

[Irreligious Left]

The OP is such a bullshitter.

[sexxichic2envy]

youz a woman. We understand :Paper:
:hand: Prove it!


:Paper:

[trustinme]

I think my main criticism with Mohammed's conduct is shown here:

Whether he married her or not isn't conclusive as to her treatment and function on the initial. She was initially a slave, and she did give birth to a child that was his -- evidence of his actions.


so whats ur point. I mean your basically saying that he had a child by a girl who was very possibly his wife. That fact that we can't prove if she was isn't really a issue. As for the whole idea of promoting slavery, i don't think uv seen the video in the beginning of this thread. This attitude of slavery has been told to me exactly the same by (trustworhy) religious people

[jasleen_yo_mom]

Someone said Islam used to promote slavery. The Prophet used to have sex with his slave girls etc etc.

I think this short speach shows completely the opposite to those lies. An educated man who is repeating what i've heard from others.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nZHNjzvrAxM



As i have already said to someone on this forum. I am NOT a muslim and NO i do not support Islam. I have my problems with Islam as much as the next person BUT I educate myself first unlike the other idiots.

I am fed up with all these bullshit lies about the religion. If u hate the religion make a good arguement. I protect Islam all the time from fucking Hindu idiots (i am Hindu myself) who dont know shit. They critise every religion in the world and then when i ask them how does any sane person worship a monkey god they can't even answer. They don't even know their own religion which makes me ashamed to even call them hindu.

Once we get these stupid uneducated voices out the way then i will make a thread (of an educated person) why i don't like Islam.

Very true.

I have a lot of respect for Islam but what about the Muslims who are always on the Hindu peoples' cases ?

[foreverconfused]

Actually what ur saying is partially along the lines why i have a problem with the religion, BUT we should be attacking those members for being idiots not the religion. Also i agree with u but isn't it non-muslims making the threads?

All i know is I didn't have any idea about this 9 yr old thing before. The first i heard of it was on here. So then i went to look at it on the internet. There are many websites explaining the real age of his wife (forgotten her name). Now if i can find it then how come the people who make the threads can't ? Why they have to post it on RD?

because some muslims evidently believe she was 9 years old, and will defend acts of pedophilia when the topic is brought up.



Muslims on this website are ignorant as fuck. They know so little and they'll defend their religion at all costs making stupid arguments, but why do we (hindus) and other religions have to go and provoke them and fight them? What if they start bashing hinduism? I'd be pissed off cos a complete lack of respect (which is what we are showing) but you'd have loads of hindus not knowing anything talking shit.

The people who make the threads aren't intrested in answers. If they were they wouldn't come to a place like this to find them, Just intrested in creating problems.


Why cant we all just live and let live. Why all this fighting?

I've observed people making anti-islam comments in retaliation to derogatory remarks made by muslims about other religions.

all of this is probably immature, but it's all a little more complex than you're implying.

[DasJa]

:hand: Prove it!


:Paper:
I'm pullin up ur noodz lady. And not even the photoshopped ones, i'm pulling the pindu ones where u got hair on ur tits and a unibrow :evil_lau:

[lamborghini]

Someone said Islam used to promote slavery. The Prophet used to have sex with his slave girls etc etc.

I think this short speach shows completely the opposite to those lies. An educated man who is repeating what i've heard from others.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nZHNjzvrAxM



As i have already said to someone on this forum. I am NOT a muslim and NO i do not support Islam. I have my problems with Islam as much as the next person BUT I educate myself first unlike the other idiots.

I am fed up with all these bullshit lies about the religion. If u hate the religion make a good arguement. I protect Islam all the time from fucking Hindu idiots (i am Hindu myself) who dont know shit. They critise every religion in the world and then when i ask them how does any sane person worship a monkey god they can't even answer. They don't even know their own religion which makes me ashamed to even call them hindu.

Once we get these stupid uneducated voices out the way then i will make a thread (of an educated person) why i don't like Islam.

:rofl:

You do not sound like a Hindu, Muslim guy ;)

[sexxichic2envy]

I'm pullin up ur noodz lady. And not even the photoshopped ones, i'm pulling the pindu ones where u got hair on ur tits and a unibrow :evil_lau:
Don't make me expose to RD the video of you having sexy time with the rickshaw driver on your tractor. Billo became Billa :no:

That unibrow was my trademark, son. :afro:

[SeXy^Shorty]

Very true.

I have a lot of respect for Islam but what about the Muslims who are always on the Hindu peoples' cases ?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[trustinme]

Something tells me you're a Muslim posing as a Hindu :google:


not at all. Just because Echelon is saying something else to what i'm saying and then saying that i'm wrong and he is right means nothing.

What hes said in his posts is something i've neer heard before as a hindu and its 100% not what i've been taught as a hindu. So i'm just trying to find any hindus that live as Echelon says they are meant to.

He's talking about the theory behind hinduism but he thinks thats also mixes into reality. This is 100% not true and the reality of what people do is what makes hinduism what it is. This is where hinduism is greatly different to other religions.

[Echelon]

What are you on about? My posts had nothing to do with Hinduism.

[Lord Jigar]

.yah, man, you keep mentioning, hinduism. The Title Reads ISLAM. IF your going to teach me something, now is your chance.

[DasJa]

Don't make me expose to RD the video of you having sexy time with the rickshaw driver on your tractor. Billo became Billa :no:

That unibrow was my trademark, son. :afro:
:shhh:


That unibrow was the scariest thing since pickled pig feet :Ohno:

[Echelon]

Title:
If Islam Wanted to Discourage Slavery, then Why did the Prophet Keep a Slave Girl

Question/Comments:

In your answer to "Slave girls as wives" you had stated that "Islam accepted slavery as a social vice and gave directives for its gradual removal and ultimate extinction". If this was the case, then why is it reported that the Prophet (pbuh) had sexual relations with his Coptic Christian slave girl and did not marry her until she delivered his child? Please clarify the authenticity of this report. If this were true, then the example of the Prophet is surely counter to the statement you made about Islam considering slavery as a social vice!



Answer:

To answer your question, it seems necessary that two separate aspects of the corrective measures taken by Islam, for the gradual abolition of the institution of slavery be clearly understood.

Firstly, the fact that Islam considered the institution of slavery a social vice is the obvious corollary of the various directives of Islam regarding freeing of slaves. Had Islam not considered slavery to be a social vice, there was no reason to promote freeing of slaves as a great virtue.

Secondly, the words 'Islam accepted slavery as a social vice' clearly imply that even though Islam considered slavery to be a vice against humanity, yet due to its deep roots in the world society, at the time, and due to the extra-ordinary social implications that could have followed any drastic measures of the complete and immediate abolition of the institution, Islam tolerated its existence till the time that the world was emotionally and psychologically prepared for its abolition. During this intermediary time, it was equally essential for the Prophet (pbuh) to promote the moral value of treating one's slaves with respect, honor, love and justice.

Mr. Amar Ellahi Lone, in his answer to a question regarding the marriages of the Prophet (pbuh) writes:

As far as the slave girl Hadhrat Maria Qibtia (ra) is concerned, the Prophet (pbuh) kept her as a slave girl because he was barred from marrying those slave girls who were not part of the booty of war, in the same verse that governed his marriage regulations. Hadhrat Maria Qibtia (ra) was presented to the Prophet (pbuh) by the ruler of Egypt[1]. He loved her very much and treated her very well, in order to set an example for the Muslims in treatment of their slaves.

It should be kept in mind that although Islam condemned slavery, it did not abolish it instantly. The institution of slavery was so deep rooted in the society that it was not possible to do away with it at once. In fact Islam adopted a gradual approach towards it by giving incentives to free slaves in return for reward in the hereafter or by treating them fairly and respectably. It was during this intermediary period that the Prophet (pbuh) set an example of good treatment of the slaves, in the case of Hadhrat Maria Qibtia (ra), for the Muslims to follow. The other example that he set in relation to slaves was in the case of Hadhrat Zayed (ra), whom he freed and made his adopted son. There is no strong evidence of any other slave girl in the household of the Prophet (pbuh).

It is clear from the accounts of the historians that the Prophet (pbuh) treated Maria Qibtia (ra) in a manner that was truly a socio-moral example for the society to follow. No difference can be seen in his treatment of Maria Qibtia (ra) and the rest of his wives (ra). She was given a separate living quarter, like the other wives and was never treated in a derogatory way by the Prophet (pbuh) or any one of his spouses.

The Prophet (pbuh) did not marry Maria Qibtia (ra) even after the birth of her child.

It should be remembered that the correction of all such social vices that are as deeply rooted in a society as was slavery in the world of old, clearly need a two faceted approach in their correction. Firstly, the society should be psychologically, emotionally and physically prepared to relieve itself of such vices - which can sometimes translate into a long-term corrective process. Secondly, during this intermediary time, the society should also be taught to deal with the prevalent situation in the best possible manner.

This may answer your questions.
This part is confusing with the rest.

[sexxichic2envy]

not at all. Just because Echelon is saying something else to what i'm saying and then saying that i'm wrong and he is right means nothing.

What hes said in his posts is something i've neer heard before as a hindu and its 100% not what i've been taught as a hindu. So i'm just trying to find any hindus that live as Echelon says they are meant to.

He's talking about the theory behind hinduism but he thinks thats also mixes into reality. This is 100% not true and the reality of what people do is what makes hinduism what it is. This is where hinduism is greatly different to other religions.
:-s lol I didnt read any of Echelon's posts. lol lol.

I was just making a silly joke based on your initial post. :hs:

[Irreligious Left]

It's fine that you want to defend Islam, but why do you think posing as a Hindew will give you more cred? It doesn't.

[Echelon]

so whats ur point. I mean your basically saying that he had a child by a girl who was very possibly his wife. That fact that we can't prove if she was isn't really a issue. As for the whole idea of promoting slavery, i don't think uv seen the video in the beginning of this thread. This attitude of slavery has been told to me exactly the same by (trustworhy) religious peopleIt's arguable, and as the previous post indicated not all islamic scholars are in favour of that view.
Secondly, its not merely about promoting slavery, its going beyond that, and having sex slaves, having a female submit to you, powerless in her desire, to give her entire body to you without reason. And her body traded and used for political reasons. Any human nowadays can see how this is (both in action and in theory) wrong.

It's not a good method of argument for people to say that things were different back then, because morality and action should be timeless. Anyone with a higher mode of enlightenment to be claimed a prophet should see beyond this.
This is my main point.

[sexxichic2envy]

It's fine that you want to defend Islam, but why do you think posing as a Hindew will give you more cred? It doesn't.
:werd:

[foreverconfused]

Do you even know the definition of "pedophilia?"

any grown man who fucks a 9 year old is committing an act of pedophilia.


thus, anyone who defends that man's actions is defending an act of pedophilia.

[longjohnsilver]

This thread is haram.

[foreverconfused]

Pedophilia or pædophilia (see spelling differences) is a preferential or exclusive sexual attraction by adults to prepubescent youths. A person with this attraction is called a pedophile or paedophile.[1] The ICD-10 and DSM IV, which are standard medical diagnosis manuals, currently describe pedophilia as a paraphilia and mental disorder of adults or older youths, if it causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

The term pedophile is also used colloquially to denote an adult who is sexually attracted to adolescents or youths below the local age of consent,[2] as well as those accused or convicted of child sexual abuse or child pornography related offences.

Obviously, you DON'T know the defintion pedophilia. Um, aren't you in medical school, or something?

Dude, even if a 9 year old has started her period, she still hasn't necessarily completed puberty.

And it is still unlikely she would he able to give birth safely.

A person is a pedophile if they are attracted to girls who normally are prebuescent. 9 year olds are usually pre-pubescent and do not magically start looking like 25 year olds even if they start their period.

they are mentally, emotionally, and physically children.

[Echelon]

Also, if you're that quick to label Muhammad(saw) a pedophile, then you should be ready to label all of the semetic tribes (including the ISRAELITES) of that time and prior to as pedophiles as well, since this was COMMON PRACTICE, NOT ONLY AMONGST THE ARABS.

It's amazing how you peons are so quick to judge a man who lived 1400 years ago by present-day standards...wow.
Again this is besides the point. Morality shouldn't have such circumstantial appeal, it should be universal.

[foreverconfused]

Also, if you're that quick to label Muhammad(saw) a pedophile, then you should be ready to label all of the semetic tribes (including the ISRAELITES) of that time and prior to as pedophiles as well, since this was COMMON PRACTICE, NOT ONLY AMONGST THE ARABS.

It's amazing how you peons are so quick to judge a man who lived 1400 years ago by present-day standards...wow.

who cares if it was a common practice? sexual relationships generally very bad for 9 year olds to be involved in.

[Street_Scholar]

Dude, even if a 9 year old has started her period, she still hasn't necessarily completed puberty.

And it is still unlikely she would he able to give birth safely.

A person is a pedophile if they are attracted to girls who normally are prebuescent. 9 year olds are usually pre-pubescent and do not magically start looking like 25 year olds even if they start their period.

they are mentally, emotionally, and physically children.


Are you utterly stupid or something? She was not 9 years old. How man times do I have to explain this? The hadith writers lowered Aisha age to debunk shia claims, that's all it was. Aisha was actually 19 - 21 when she married Mohamed, in fact Aisha was engaged to another man, before the engagement to Mohamed. The engagement was broken because Asiahs father, Abu Baker had converted to Islam.

[DasJa]

:rofl:

You do not sound like a Hindu, Muslim guy ;)
Yeah, he's already been called out. All this posts have (btw i'm hindu), everytime he disses hindu's or hinduism...so it was kinda obvious!

[Echelon]

And on the pedophillia issue,

The APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition, Text Revision gives the following as its "Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia":[24]

* A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger);
* B. The person has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty;
* C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.


With re: puberty, puberty is something involved in stages, typically a female is considered to have undergone full-stages on a pubic angle by the age of 14.

You cannot say a boy is past his pre-pubescent stage because he has pubic hairs. Boys experience pubic growth when they're 6 years old.

So if someone has a fascinationf or a 6 year old boy, he isn't a pedophile? Heh.

Stop skewing logic for your purpose.

[Street_Scholar]

And even if she was 9, she had reacher her menses and was a young woman. You can't fucking argue with nature.

[foreverconfused]

someone mentioned in that other thread the trend involving the declining age at menarche. 9 is young in our current time for girls to be starting their period. most start it later.

girls may not have had the same amount of body fat 1400 years ago, making it even more unlikely they would have had their period at age 9.

[Echelon]

Are you utterly stupid or something? She was not 9 years old. How man times do I have to explain this? The hadith writers lowered Aisha age to debunk shia claims, that's all it was. Aisha was actually 19 - 21 when she married Mohamed, in fact Aisha was engaged to another man, before the engagement to Mohamed. The engagement was broken because Asiahs father, Abu Baker had converted to Islam.
I think both her and I aren't going to defend the fact that she was 9, 19, or 100. This is irrelevant to me.
The point in the making is there are a lot of muslims who'll present logical arguments IF she was 9.

[foreverconfused]

Are you utterly stupid or something? She was not 9 years old. How man times do I have to explain this? The hadith writers lowered Aisha age to debunk shia claims, that's all it was. Aisha was actually 19 - 21 when she married Mohamed, in fact Aisha was engaged to another man, before the engagement to Mohamed. The engagement was broken because Asiahs father, Abu Baker had converted to Islam.

I'm arguing with people claiming 9 year olds who have started their period are ready to have sex. That is wrong.

[Echelon]

And even if she was 9, she had reacher her menses and was a young woman. You can't fucking argue with nature.
You are despicable.

Refer to the post on the other page. This sort of logic makes me cringe.

[Street_Scholar]

someone mentioned in that other thread the trend involving the declining age at menarche. 9 is young in our current time for girls to be starting their period. most start it later.

girls may not have had the same amount of body fat 1400 years ago, making it even more unlikely they would have had their period at age 9.

Its documented in the hadith, the same hadith which ,state she was nine, those same hadith state she also had reached her menses. So why pick and choose? why can you accept the claim she was nine by the same sources and yet not accept she had reached her menses. Seems to me is you have ulterior motives for your arguments.

[foreverconfused]

According to WHOSE STANDARDS? The same people who have determined these "standards," are the same people whose societies are plagued by illlegitmate children, divorce, debauchery,etc. So, with that said, what credentials do you really have to judge people who lived 2,000+ years ago? You're acting like the people back then went around fucking every little kid they could get their paws on. NO, that's not what it was about....as a matter of fact that's what goes on TODAY...leave the past out of it.

So, are you going to retract your statement calling our Prophet(saw) a "pedophile," in light of the DEFINTION OF THE TERM proving you WRONG, or what?

by any standard. 9 year olds are underdeveloped for child birth even if they have started their period. it is not safe even today.

[Street_Scholar]

I think both her and I aren't going to defend the fact that she was 9, 19, or 100. This is irrelevant to me.
The point in the making is there are a lot of muslims who'll present logical arguments IF she was 9.

Its was common most people didn't live that long back then, they had to marry young girls. Aisha was a young woman, not a prepubescent girl. If Mohamed was a pedophile he would have had sex with her when she was six not waited until she turned nine, thats according to the hadith. It makes your whole argument absurd.

[Echelon]

Its was common most people didn't live that long back then, they had to marry young girls. Aisha was a young woman, not a prepubescent girl. If Mohamed was a pedophile he would have had sex with her when she was six not waited until she turned nine, thats according to the hadith. It makes your whole argument absurd.I'm confused, you're saying she's 9 now? Others were saying she was 19 or 21?
I really am confused.

It's not whether she had a pube on her body or whether she had her period, thats a stupid technicality to go by. If you expect people to believe she had the ability to consent to sex or any relationship for that matter at that age then you're asking for something irrational. And thats what the main issue is. I, personally, couldn't give two-shits about whether mohommed was going to be labelled a pedophile or not. The label itself is irrelevant. It's just there is a lack of equality in the relationship and the power to choose.

[sexxichic2envy]

And even if she was 9, she had reacher her menses and was a young woman. You can't fucking argue with nature.
You don't have to reply to this. I'm just randomly posting and I have no interest in going through a page to page post for post battle... however,

that's like saying it's ok to fuck a girl today in 2007 who has reached her menses despite her being only 10 or 11...

How do you even begin to justify that? (just thinking out loud)

[Lord Jigar]

And, since there is nothing to suggest, obviously, that our Prophet(saw) had a "fetish" for PRE-PUBESCENT girls SPECIFICALLY and/or EXCLUSIVELY, he was NOT A PEDOPHILE.

The slander is getting out of hand, seriously...

:werd:

In self defense, I will strongly agree with this.

No argument.

[Street_Scholar]

According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.

[Echelon]

Regardless, the definition of the term works AGAINST you, not FOR you in calling people of the past "pedophiles," simply because of their customs. 2000+ years ago, once a girl had her menses, she was considered to have hit puberty. Period, end of story. You can quote whatever medical journal you want.

And, since there is nothing to suggest, obviously, that our Prophet(saw) had a "fetish" for PRE-PUBESCENT girls SPECIFICALLY and/or EXCLUSIVELY, he was NOT A PEDOPHILE.

The slander is getting out of hand, seriously...Heh, well, dude, you tried to debunk's foreverconfused's definition of a pedophile with your apparent objective argument and now you're trying to present 2000 year old logic towards your defence when i've just shown how irrational your definition is?
Okay.

Again, its not a matter of whether it was customary to have sex with someone, it's just there is some universal etiquette and power-distribution between a man and a woman.
I'm not going to support this view simply because customary rational views of the past are now rendered to be irrational.

Humans are swayed by fads and customs.
A prophet should be swayed by universal truth not the actions of others. And having sex with a 9 year old child is definitely not pleasing to the eye.

Would you support your prophet if it was customary to have sex with a baby? You probably will and for that, I feel sorry for you.

[Street_Scholar]

You don't have to reply to this. I'm just randomly posting and I have no interest in going through a page to page post for post battle... however,

that's like saying it's ok to fuck a girl today in 2007 who has reached her menses despite her being only 10 or 11...

How do you even begin to justify that? (just thinking out loud)

Its morally not acceptable, so you don't don't it. Ethics and morals are not universal. They change over time, thats the problem. Back then 1400s ago it was morally and ethically acceptable, we would have no knowledge of it meaning wrong, it would be as normal for us as a 20 year old guy marrying a 16 year old girl. We wouldn't have thought much of it.

[random guy]

its a crime to fuck 9 year olds.

[Echelon]

You are doing nothing but parroting yourself now, just give up. For the umpteenth fuggin' time, you are using fairly recent criteria to judge a man who lived 1400 years ago for nothing more than the purpose of SLANDER. This is nothing more than FOLLY.

If you disagree with the SEMETIC CUSTOMS of the time, then thats fine, and that is your personal opinion. BUT, you should RETRACT your statements here, and in the other forum where you were/are accusing our Prophet(saw) of being a "pedophile." Are you ready to do this, or NO?
If a man had anal intercourse with another man, would you not dub him a homosexual? You people really are confused.

[DasJa]

Heh, well, dude, you tried to debunk's foreverconfused's definition of a pedophile with your apparent objective argument and now you're trying to present 2000 year old logic towards your defence when i've just shown how irrational your definition is?
Okay.

Again, its not a matter of whether it was customary to have sex with someone, it's just there is some universal etiquette and power-distribution between a man and a woman.
I'm not going to support this view simply because customary rational views of the past are now rendered to be irrational.

Humans are swayed by fads and customs.
A prophet should be swayed by universal truth not the actions of others. And having sex with a 9 year old child is definitely not pleasing to the eye.

Would you support your prophet if it was customary to have sex with a baby? You probably will and for that, I feel sorry for you.
Quoting to make sure what the point here is!!

[Lord Jigar]

Does Pedophilia involve the use of sexual instruments?

[foreverconfused]

Regardless, the definition of the term works AGAINST you, not FOR you in calling people of the past "pedophiles," simply because of their customs. 2000+ years ago, once a girl had her menses, she was considered to have hit puberty. Period, end of story. You can quote whatever medical journal you want.

And, since there is nothing to suggest, obviously, that our Prophet(saw) had a "fetish" for PRE-PUBESCENT girls SPECIFICALLY and/or EXCLUSIVELY, he was NOT A PEDOPHILE.

The slander is getting out of hand, seriously...

who cares about the customs back then? that's irrelevant, since child marriage is a bad custom and a prophet should not be involved in it.

either argue she was 19 or just don't bother. having sex with a 9 year old does not only cause physical harm. as echelon said, she wouldn't have been capable of giving consent or understanding the consequences of sex.

[Echelon]

Quoting to make sure what the point here is!!
They still don't get it. They're granting their prophet an excuse, by presenting him as a domino which will do things and fall to irrational actions of others.

[Street_Scholar]

I'm confused, you're saying she's 9 now? Others were saying she was 19 or 21?
I really am confused.

It's not whether she had a pube on her body or whether she had her period, thats a stupid technicality to go by. If you expect people to believe she had the ability to consent to sex or any relationship for that matter at that age then you're asking for something irrational. And thats what the main issue is. I, personally, couldn't give two-shits about whether mohommed was going to be labelled a pedophile or not. The label itself is irrelevant. It's just there is a lack of equality in the relationship and the power to choose.

According to the hadith, (which have internal and external contradictions) she was 6 years old when engaged and 9 years old when the marriage was consummated. Now, the information comes 200 years after the death of Mohamed and Aisha. This was documented 200 years later when the Muslims where having a civil war. The sunni hadith compilers had lowered the age of Aisha in the hadith to debunk shia claims. Today there is loads of evidence proving some well meaning Muslims had tampered with the age of Aisha.

According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma (ra) died in the 73rd year after hijrah[2] when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra) - if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

[desidancer]

I have not looked this up myself...but I remember someone telling me that back then in order for a female slave to be set free she must have a child.

I don't know how true this is but it's something I have been meaning to look into.

hey only educated muslims know that! haha but yea thats the truth... and thats why the prophet did. **editt.. i dont think she has to have a child.. she has to be married.. usually to someone of higher status*

i was gonna mention that in the thread about that.. but those threads full of islamically illiterate muslims and nonmuslims that saying the truth can be of no use. ignorant people.

[foreverconfused]

You are doing nothing but parroting yourself now, just give up. For the umpteenth fuggin' time, you are using fairly recent criteria to judge a man who lived 1400 years ago for nothing more than the purpose of SLANDER. This is nothing more than FOLLY.

If you disagree with the SEMETIC CUSTOMS of the time, then thats fine, and that is your personal opinion. BUT, you should RETRACT your statements here, and in the other forum where you were/are accusing our Prophet(saw) of being a "pedophile." Are you ready to do this, or NO?

I already said the customs of the time were irrelevant.

[Echelon]

According to the hadith, (which have internal and external contradictions) she was 6 years old when engaged and 9 years old when the marriage was consummated. Now, the information comes 200 years after the death of Mohamed and Aisha. This was documented 200 years later when the Muslims where having a civil war. The sunni hadith compilers had lowered the age of Aisha in the hadith to debunk shia claims. Today there is loads of evidence proving some well meaning Muslims had tampered with the age of Aisha.

According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma (ra) died in the 73rd year after hijrah[2] when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra) - if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.
That's superb news for your prophet, however you should try and avoid the argument of making his actions look rational IF she was 9 years.

[DasJa]

They still don't get it. They're granting their prophet an excuse, by presenting him as a domino which will do things and fall to irrational actions of others.
I know. There's no explaining that statement, so they're skirting around it with statements like, "in 1400s so n so"...or "till 100 years ago the law was such-n-such". I KNOW they're getting the point, but they choose to ignore the basis of it, instead justify it by some vague illogical comparison.

[Street_Scholar]

Did you know Noah was 900 years old? these ages were just randomly pulled out of any-place.

and also much of the confusion lies in the calender also, the Muslims use a moon calender, the westerners used a sun based calender. Hence why ages were so messed up. Some girls in India and Pakistan today wouldn't even know their accurate age.

[Echelon]

I know. There's no explaining that statement, so they're skirting around it with statements like, "in 1400s so n so"...or "till 100 years ago the law was such-n-such". I KNOW they're getting the point, but they choose to ignore the basis of it, instead justify it by some vague illogical comparison.
Right now they're googling for pre-written templated answers on various 1001 islamic arguments. But they're so stupid in arguing and ignorant in addressing the issues which are important, because their convictions are so deep. They'll turn a blind eye and chop away blindly at something totally irrelevant.

It kinda reminds me of the black knight from Monty Python.
2eMkth8FWno

It's a shame that half of these people are driven by devotion more than reason.

[Echelon]

Did you know Noah was 900 years old? these ages were just randomly pulled out of any-place.

and also much of the confusion lies in the calender also, the Muslims use a moon calender, the westerners used a sun based calender. Hence why ages were so messed up. Some girls in India and Pakistan today wouldn't even know their accurate age.
Thats brilliant.

[Street_Scholar]

That's superb news for your prophet, however you should try and avoid the argument of making his actions look rational IF she was 9 years.

Am not saying she is nine, the hadith state this, you don't have to believe in the hadith, these are just dumb ass documents one hadith states that mohammed had the sexual power of 100 men. I mean come on, it was just well meaning Muslims embellishing the truth. They thought what they were right was good, some of the stuff was completely made up.

Its Muslims who are uneducated who accept the hadith as true factual documents who do damage to Islam and try to justify a man sleeping with a nine year old girl. if this was true I would have left Islam long time ago. We need to challenge this unethical martial logically and prove to the Imams and uneducated Muslims that the hadith are full of contradictions and there's evidence proving Aisha was not nine years old.

[Arshy]

The prophet Muhammad (PBUH) would say: “ Each prophet had been given the miracle that suited the prevailing conditions of this people. But my miracle is an inspiration from Allah to me. I pray that I should have more and more followers on the Day of Judgment.”

[Street_Scholar]

here is an excellent website from progressive Muslims such as myself you should check it out:

http://www.free-minds.org/

[Echelon]

Am not saying she is nine, the hadith state this, you don't have to believe in the hadith, these are just dumb ass documents one hadith states that mohammed had the sexual power of 100 men. I mean come on, it was just well meaning Muslims embellishing the truth. They thought what they were right was good, some of the stuff was completely made up.

Its Muslims who are uneducated who accept the hadith as true factual documents who do damage to Islam and try to justify a man sleeping with a nine year old girl. if this was true I would have left Islam long time ago. We need to challenge this unethical martial logically and prove to the Imams and uneducated Muslims that the hadith are full of contradictions and there's evidence proving Aisha was not nine years old.
That's all good, we're not suggesting that he actually did have sex with a 9 year old. It's just we're slightly disguted that a lot of muslims will contend to do anything to preserve their prophet's good name, even if it means making immoral things like having sex with a 9 year old look rational at the time.

[ilyas@!!oops!!]

here we go again on Islam!!!!! :no:

[Lord Jigar]

Would you support your prophet if it was customary to have sex with a baby? You probably will and for that, I feel sorry for you.



Tells the Prophet to give her time. Make her see her world the way it is. Know her, understand her, Have her want you. Than truuly would he learn, resulting to teach nothing but the truth

[sax2k6]

Someone said Islam used to promote slavery. The Prophet used to have sex with his slave girls etc etc.

I think this short speach shows completely the opposite to those lies. An educated man who is repeating what i've heard from others.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nZHNjzvrAxM



As i have already said to someone on this forum. I am NOT a muslim and NO i do not support Islam. I have my problems with Islam as much as the next person BUT I educate myself first unlike the other idiots.

I am fed up with all these bullshit lies about the religion. If u hate the religion make a good arguement. I protect Islam all the time from fucking Hindu idiots (i am Hindu myself) who dont know shit. They critise every religion in the world and then when i ask them how does any sane person worship a monkey god they can't even answer. They don't even know their own religion which makes me ashamed to even call them hindu.

Once we get these stupid uneducated voices out the way then i will make a thread (of an educated person) why i don't like Islam.


goood on u..................this thrread needs more intellident people like yourself!!!! :thumleft:

[Echelon]

Look at y'all, this is unbelievable. Is this how y'all get your rocks off, I mean seriously? I didn't "TRY" to debunk anything she said, she debunked herself, and the way she's meekly replying to my rebuttal to her erroneous statements is proof enough of that fact. YOU, however are obviously a little more intelligent then she is, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in your attempt to continue this nonsense...

Let's take this step by step:

A) 2,000 years ago, according to semetic custom, a girl was considered to have hit puberty once she had her menses.

B) Pedophilia, regardless of the debate over when puberty actually occurs in totality, is defined as having an EXCLUSIVE ATTRACTION TO CHILDREN WHO HAVEN'T YET REACHED PUBERTY. Ayeesha(ra), disregarding your opinion on the matter, was considered to have hitten puberty at the time of the consumation of the marriage.

C) Our Prophet(saw) was first married to Khadijaah(ra) EXCLUSIVELY, a woman who was over 20 years OLDER then him, and being that there is nothing in our Prophets(saw) recorded life to suggest that he had an exclusive "fetish" for little girls, or teenaged girls even, HE CANNOT LOGICALLY BE CALLED A PEDOPHILE. If you have evidence that testifies otherwise, then please bring it forth. Show and Prove, or shut the fuck up, honestly.

You said:

it's just there is some universal etiquette and power-distribution between a man and a woman.

obviously this "etiquette" that you are over here lauding over isn't so "universal" at all, if the customs of an entire group of people obviously disagree with it, at least at that time. How recently was this "etiquette" that you are referencing developed, and by whom?

Would you support your prophet if it was customary to have sex with a baby? You probably will and for that, I feel sorry for you.

Why are you asking me questions if you've already answered them yourself to your own liking? I know you like to hear yourself talk (or in this case, see), but please, don't ask me stupid questions, it doesn't help you at all.
A) It doesn't matter, a prophet shouldn't be swayed to act on semetic customs, he should be beyond that.
B) That's incorrect. Pedophillia isn't an exclusive attraction. Fetishes can be coupled. For instance, a man who has a fetish for men and little children is classified as a homosexual and a pedophile. It's a preferential attraction.
C) I don't need evidence, nor do I want to state that he is a pedophile. However if he did have sex with a 9 years old girl then my contention would be that he is a pedophile. Pedophile is a fetish of the mind. You aren't born with it, it is nurtured. You can become a pedophile through circumstance, for eg) you can be slowly conditioned with the psychological belief that you are inferior to a woman and therefore you can only go for beings who are mentally/physically inferior ie) children.

Etiquette is as follows:
"the code of ethical behavior regarding professional practice or action among the members of a profession in their dealings with each other".

Read up on universal morality or jus cogens. You might better yourself in
knowing that there is a thing out there which lays out the underlying fabric of what constitutes a basic right and a human right.
http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Humphrey-Bogart-Photograph-C11840160.jpeg

[Lord Jigar]

A)
http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Humphrey-Bogart-Photograph-C11840160.jpeg

HB,
Another animal in the forest.
:Pelvic2:

[soladylike]

We're not scholars of religion here so we don't have access to documents that properly answer questions about Islam. From what I have learned, there is only one hadith narrated by one person in Bukhari that marks Hazrat Aisha's age as 9 when her marriage was consummated. There are other hadith by many eyewitnesses that mark her age as higher. However, the Quran supersedes the ahadith and it says to marry someone only if they are mentally and physically able, and consent to the marriage. That should be enough. And that is enough for most Muslims. If it were hard and fast rule that we must follow all the particulars of the Prophet's practices, then I'm sure the religion would have lost following a long time ago.
Slavery is not allowed in Islam. After Islam, people who were originally slaves ended up becoming servants by our definition since their owners/ masters were supposed to provide them with shelter, food, clothing, and an education if necessary. The slaves of the time were also allowed to pay off their owner and be free. If you haven't read the Quran, then there is no way you would know that slavery is not condoned by Islam. You'll see a progression of commandments concerning slaves which starts out by first telling owners to treat their slaves humanely and it ends by telling owners that their slaves are like their brothers who deserve to be treated the same way as them.
Sex with slaves is not allowed in Islam either. The Prophet never had sex with any of his female slaves outside of wedlock. Majority of Islamic scholars agree that even though she was given to the Prophet as a slave, he choose to marry Hazrat Maria and make her his wife.
A simple education of Islam and common sense will show that Islam doesn't order us to do inhumane things, and neither did the Prophet do such actions.

[random guy]

Actually no, because homosexual activity itself is not enough to label someone a homosexual. If someone is attracted to a person of the same sex exclusively, and has absolutely no interest in members of the opposite sex whatsoever, then that person would rightly be called a homosexual.

have u heard the phrase?: u can walk the walk but can u talk the talk.
doin homosexual activities further proves ur homosexual

[Echelon]

Actually no, because homosexual activity itself is not enough to label someone a homosexual. If someone is attracted to a person of the same sex exclusively, and has absolutely no interest in members of the opposite sex whatsoever, then that person would rightly be called a homosexual.
A person who does it occassionally, has comitted homosexual acts.
A person who prefers to be attracted to the same sex is homosexual, hence sexual preference.

So analogously if the prophet mohammed comitted sexual acts against a child, he'd be comitting paedophilic acts.
And if he'd prefer children over older girls, then he'd be a pedophille.

[Lord Jigar]

have u heard the phrase?: u can walk the walk but can u talk the talk.
doin homosexual activities further proves ur homosexual

Taken the other way around, No? this could just make you an asshole.

[Echelon]

We're not scholars of religion here so we don't have access to documents that properly answer questions about Islam. From what I have learned, there is only one hadith narrated by one person in Bukhari that marks Hazrat Aisha's age as 9 when her marriage was consummated. There are other hadith by many eyewitnesses that mark her age as higher. However, the Quran supersedes the ahadith and it says to marry someone only if they are mentally and physically able, and consent to the marriage. That should be enough. And that is enough for most Muslims. If it were hard and fast rule that we must follow all the particulars of the Prophet's practices, then I'm sure the religion would have lost following a long time ago.
Slavery is not allowed in Islam. After Islam, people who were originally slaves ended up becoming servants by our definition since their owners/ masters were supposed to provide them with shelter, food, clothing, and an education if necessary. The slaves of the time were also allowed to pay off their owner and be free. If you haven't read the Quran, then there is no way you would know that slavery is not condoned by Islam. You'll see a progression of commandments concerning slaves which starts out by first telling owners to treat their slaves humanely and it ends by telling owners that their slaves are like their brothers who deserve to be treated the same way as them.
Sex with slaves is not allowed in Islam either. The Prophet never had sex with any of his female slaves outside of wedlock. Majority of Islamic scholars agree that even though she was given to the Prophet as a slave, he choose to marry Hazrat Maria and make her his wife.
A simple education of Islam and common sense will show that Islam doesn't order us to do inhumane things, and neither did the Prophet do such actions.Okay so was the child born before or after marriage? I'm not so sure the "majority" of islamic scholars agree she was married.

[random guy]

Taken the other way around, No! this could just make you an asshole.

lol... i was just checkin to c if anyone noticed!

[Lord Jigar]

lol... i was just checkin to c if anyone noticed!


: patsonback: good job asshole :p

[soladylike]

Okay so was the child born before or after marriage? I'm not so sure the "majority" of islamic scholars agree she was married.

After the marriage.
No, majority of scholars do agree that she was his wife. A verse of the Quran can't be interpreted in a way so that it violates another verse of the Quran. The rule of "what your right hand possesses" was pretty much void by then since verses that said slaves were meant to be treated as any other individual of society had been revealed.

[Angelno15]

A person who does it occassionally, has comitted homosexual acts.
A person who prefers to be attracted to the same sex is homosexual, hence sexual preference.

So analogously if the prophet mohammed comitted sexual acts against a child, he'd be comitting paedophilic acts.
And if he'd prefer children over older girls, then he'd be a pedophille.

Wait...are you trying to say if a person has killed somebody then they have committed a murderous act. But if he likes to kill hes a murderer? ;)

[Echelon]

Wait...are you trying to say if a person has killed somebody then they have committed a murderous act. But if he likes to kill hes a murderer? ;)
Murder isn't a fetish, its an act. Murderous act is a series of acts eventuating in murder.
If you enjoy murder then you have a fetish to kill and inflict pain.

[Echelon]

YOUR definition of what a Prophet "should be" is absolutely useless, as are your definitions of "right" and "wrong," "deceny" and "indecency." This is nothing more than a convenient cop-out, which thereby enables you to slander our prophet(saw) any way you wish, and from any angle you choose. Clever Echelon, very clever, but I see through your little game.

Lets look up three separate defintions of "pedophilia." Here's the first one I quoted initially:

1) Pedophilia or pædophilia (see spelling differences) is a preferential or exclusive sexual attraction by adults to prepubescent youths. A person with this attraction is called a pedophile or paedophile.(wikipedia)

2) Main Entry: pe·do·phil·ia
Pronunciation: "pe-d&-'fi-lE-&, 'pE-
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin
: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object (merriam/webster)

3) Pedophilia

Definition
Pedophilia is a paraphilia that involves an abnormal interest in children. A paraphilia is a disorder that is characterized by recurrent intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies generally involving: nonhuman objects; the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner (not merely simulated); or animals, children, or other nonconsenting persons. Pedophilia is also a psychosexual disorder in which the fantasy or actual act of engaging in sexual activity with prepubertal children is the preferred or exclusive means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification. It may be directed toward children of the same sex or children of the other sex. Some pedophiles are attracted to both boys and girls. Some are attracted only to children, while others are attracted to adults as well as to children.
(healthline.com)

You said:

I don't need evidence, nor do I want to state that he is a pedophile. However if he did have sex with a 9 years old girl then my contention would be that he is a pedophile. Pedophile is a fetish of the mind.

LOL@ you "dont need evidence," get the fuck outta here man...I've already proved you to be wrong, so me looking up and researching "universal morality" is not, and has never been the issue here. The issue here is that you and the rest of your filthy contingent here seem to be hellbent on labeling our Prophet(saw) with vile names and accusations with absolutely NO BASIS. Why don't you go attack Socrates, Aristotle, and all those other greek personalites whom you most doubt revere for fucking little boys in the ass ON A REGULAR BASIS. Where are your objections to that? I don't see them, hmmmmmm, could it be because they weren't founders of a certain religion called "ISLAAM?" Well gee, I think so...

What the fuck more do you need, Mr. Echelon? If you want to etch your own definitions of already established truths and principles, then that's your business. But please, don't sit here and run off your own personal opinions and tout them as fact.
You accidently mis-quoted the definition for paraphilia over pedophillia and then used that to debunk my logic. I'll give you the opportunity to re-edit your arguments before I reply, since I'm so sympathetic.

http://www.libertyfilmfestival.com/libertas/wp-content/bogart_rick.jpg

[Echelon]

And by the way, your posts are extremely emotionally charged, it's not helping your cause.

[soladylike]

Why do you keep putting up Bogart's picture with each reply, Echelon?

[Echelon]

After the marriage.
No, majority of scholars do agree that she was his wife. A verse of the Quran can't be interpreted in a way so that it violates another verse of the Quran. The rule of "what your right hand possesses" was pretty much void by then since verses that said slaves were meant to be treated as any other individual of society had been revealed.
Can you give me any instances of scripture which suggests that he married her off? If you read the post by Clueless uk, the Q & A website appears to suggest he "did not marry her".

[Echelon]

LMAO, no shit. A pedophila is a paraphilia. A paraphilia is _________

All you have to do is say that the Prophet(saw) can't possibly be called a "pedophile," in light of the meaning of the term itself, and what pedophilia actually entails.

Was Socrates a pedophile Echelon? If so, was he more of a pedophile than Muhammad(saw), according to your standards? Please explain.
I'm not much of a fan of Socrates.

If at the time mohammed prefered her, then at the time he was a pedophille.
Considering for an adult human being to have sex with a 9 year old, its not just a quick absence of the mind which led to the action. It takes something of consideration for a man to have sex with a being that is under-developed.
A girl at that age would be entirely different psychologically and physically to a fully matured young-adult. It'd take some persuasion on his part to be sexually attracted to her.

[Lord Jigar]

Can you give me any instances of scripture which suggests that he married her off? If you read the post by Clueless uk, the Q & A website appears to suggest he "did not marry her".

I think it is true that he made an attempt to marry her soon after he was found by her in a circle

[soladylike]

Can you give me any instances of scripture which suggests that he married her off? If you read the post by Clueless uk, the Q & A website appears to suggest he "did not marry her".

I saw her post. But I have no idea which website she got it from, and the man quoted there is a Mr. Amar Ellahi Lone. I have no idea who this man is and the title of Shaykh is not attached to his name which shows he's not a scholar.
Quranic scripture doesn't contain names of the Prophet's wives so I can't provide holy scripture for it. I'm pasting a link to a website I trust because I know some of the scholars who answer questions on there personally.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996015510

[Echelon]

I saw her post. But I have no idea which website she got it from, and the man quoted there is a Mr. Amar Ellahi Lone. I have no idea who this man is and the title of Shaykh is not attached to his name which shows he's not a scholar.Quranic scripture doesn't contain names of the Prophet's wives so I can't provide holy scripture for it. I'm pasting a link to a website I trust because I know some of the scholars who answer questions on there personally.http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996015510I'm personally having trouble believing he was born after marriage, because he 'became' his son and wasn't 'born' his son.

[soladylike]

I'm personally having trouble believing he was born after marriage, because he 'became' his son and wasn't 'born' his son.

Where does it say Ibrahim 'became' his son? I don't see it in the link I posted. I can't trust Clueless's link because it's not written by a Shaykh.

[x_desigal_xx]

Yes, this guy is Hindu. :p


LOL. I hate liars.

[Echelon]

Where does it say Ibrahim 'became' his son? I don't see it in the link I posted. I can't trust Clueless's link because it's not written by a Shaykh.
Well either way:
Many Muslim sources say that Muhammad later freed and married Maria, but it is not clear if this is historical fact or historical apology. Some Muslim traditions claim that Muhammmad offered to free Maria, but that she chose to remain a slave.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] To further complicate matters, slaves were to be automatically freed upon conversion to Islam, so it is not clear why Maria would have to be explicitly freed if she had already converted.
The fact that Maria was not housed with Muhammad's other wives argues that she was a concubine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubine). Muhammad lived in a mud-brick dwelling next to the Medina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina) mosque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque), and each of his wives had her own mud-brick room, built in a line next to his. Maria, however, was lodged in a house on the edge of Medina. Maria is also not listed as a wife in some of the earliest sources, such as Ibn Hisham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hisham)'s notes on Ibn Ishaq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Ishaq)'s Sira (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sira) (Guillaume 691 – 798).

[Monica152]

Dude the guy was not having a bash at Hinduism - read the thread from the beginning. Jeebus.
i know i was just correcting him
what i can even share the facts

[soladylike]

Well either way:

If you look at it through the light of Quranic verses then it's obvious that he married her.
Her house being further away might have had to do with how the other wives treated her rather than the Prophet's attitude towards her. They didn't like her because she was very beautiful (more than them) and she was an outsider (not from the Arabian tribes). I forget which Surah it was but a verse in it was revealed warning the Prophet's wives not to heed rumors or spread them. Hazrat Maria was a part of these rumors.
I'll have to ask my mom about the Surah's name and post it later.

[supremed]

soladylike promotes slavery

[soladylike]

soladylike promotes slavery

Just because you're my slave willingly doesn't mean I promote slavery :rolleyes:

[supremed]

Just because you're my slave willingly doesn't mean I promote slavery :rolleyes:
that i am...but you promote it...you bloody moose limb

[Echelon]

If you look at it through the light of Quranic verses then it's obvious that he married her.
Her house being further away might have had to do with how the other wives treated her rather than the Prophet's attitude towards her. They didn't like her because she was very beautiful (more than them) and she was an outsider (not from the Arabian tribes). I forget which Surah it was but a verse in it was revealed warning the Prophet's wives not to heed rumors or spread them. Hazrat Maria was a part of these rumors.
I'll have to ask my mom about the Surah's name and post it later.From brief reading ive been given the impression that she was considered under the same esteem as a wife of mohammed, but whether the marriage was formal as per others, is another question entirely. I think it seems rather wierd to me, that he'd be given a concubine and marry her before fornicating with her, granted the circumstances and her origins.

[soladylike]

From brief reading ive been given the impression that she was considered under the same esteem as a wife of mohammed, but whether the marriage was formal as per others, is another question entirely. I think it seems rather wierd to me, that he'd be given a concubine and marry her before fornicating with her, granted the circumstances and her origins.

It might have been weird according to Arab customs but not according to Islamic guidelines.
When she was given to him Muslims were to marry before they had sex. As I said before the rule of "what your right hand possesses" as pertaining to slaves was no longer applicable by then since Allah had declared that you can only have sex with your wives.

[soladylike]

that i am...but you promote it...you bloody moose limb

Baseless accusations :hand:

[not-now]

nah IM from New York
Im a Hindu
and growing up I was taught god was god no matter if what name you gave him, Ive been to madirs, gurdwaras, and churches i dont mind going to any place of worship because in the end its considered god's house and i think thats just the way most hindus are, we dont take our religion to extreme and any place of worship is considered holy and even though yes they did destroy our mandirs we wouldnt destroy their masjid because in the end we did look above that which is why I particularly don't like Pakis not all ,but some who are still ignorant enough to argue about whos better
That just shows are some still do not know how to be tolerant
But I haven't heard about mosques being broken down but that's just as wrong
and didn't get what you meant by the last part??


lol@ your ignorance don't act like your all innocent.I guess you missed it when extremist hindus demolished the oldest mosque of india live on TV causing one of the worst riots in indian history :rolleyes:

[The Tush]

Paradise/heaven is in your head. There is no right or wrong religion. If there is a God, there is only 1 & everyone worships divinity in their own way. At the end of the day it doesnt matter because no person has come back from the dead and proven that the heaven that all these people hope to go to does exist.

WOW!

[The Tush]

Science was used to try and turn people away from god and come up with an explaination for everything, but sorely failed due to lack of evidence in many fields, and hence use lies with no basis to cover their own deficiencies.


..................................and you all still fall for it

Not a wow .. as a Wtf?

[Clueless_uk]

I saw her post. But I have no idea which website she got it from, and the man quoted there is a Mr. Amar Ellahi Lone. I have no idea who this man is and the title of Shaykh is not attached to his name which shows he's not a scholar.
Quranic scripture doesn't contain names of the Prophet's wives so I can't provide holy scripture for it. I'm pasting a link to a website I trust because I know some of the scholars who answer questions on there personally.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996015510

I am not sure if I quoted a Shaykh but here is the website I got it from: http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=371

I just vaguely remember my Teacher telling me...that at that era...female slaves had to give birth to a child before they can free themselves of a slave status. And I do not remember her telling me that he married her...possibly he did so after she gave him a child. Personally I found the whole subject hard to digest - I am still unsure about this whole subject area...I certainly need to look into it more...as I can't find any hadiths on it.

[HeAvYmAcHiNeGuN]

Someone said Islam used to promote slavery. The Prophet used to have sex with his slave girls etc etc.

I think this short speach shows completely the opposite to those lies. An educated man who is repeating what i've heard from others.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nZHNjzvrAxM



As i have already said to someone on this forum. I am NOT a muslim and NO i do not support Islam. I have my problems with Islam as much as the next person BUT I educate myself first unlike the other idiots.

I am fed up with all these bullshit lies about the religion. If u hate the religion make a good arguement. I protect Islam all the time from fucking Hindu idiots (i am Hindu myself) who dont know shit. They critise every religion in the world and then when i ask them how does any sane person worship a monkey god they can't even answer. They don't even know their own religion which makes me ashamed to even call them hindu.

Once we get these stupid uneducated voices out the way then i will make a thread (of an educated person) why i don't like Islam.

nobody has da right to hate any other religion
i would advice all of u to JUST LOVE AND RESPECT UR OWN RELIGION
and please stop hating

[a4m4r]

First of alll nuff respect going out to the guy who med dis thread

second of all im a muslim and yes im a paki 2 i dont giv a fuk abw a hindu, sikh or a christian hating on me jus cuz am a muslim. Most people are fucking thick they believe wot they see on the tv and not realising before they broadcast the news they have to let the goverment know what they are broadcasting so obviously the dont broadcast the truth do they?

i had a family until a bunch of hindus and sikhs attacked us and shot my brother da dont mean i go round critisising hindusim and sikism or it dont mean i go and judge evry1 the same cz dats agains my religion to critisise another religion. I tink you should all go n check out the meaning of islam which means peace not fukin war thats wot pisses me off is people spread shit you tell some1 1 story da piece of shit will go and telll sum1 else and will exagerate the story abit more. Most ppl critisise my religion over the net and its da holy month 4 us muslims but if i ever get any1 tekin the piss out of my religion infront of my face i swear2 god i wouldnt giv a fuk who they are i will cut the fukin throat. There are thousands of muslims dyin everyday in iraq and wen ders 1 fukin british or american gora die its all over the fukin papers and the news dont believe wot you dont see.

So im fed up of ppl puting some of us muslims in the same category as the fucked up young muslim youths were not all the same so go out there and see the truth rather den sitting at home wv a drink or a burger in your hand watching the tv and letting the shitty goverment brainwash you.

Im a muslim and im proud hate me as much as you want i just dont giv a fuck!!!!!

[HeAvYmAcHiNeGuN]

i really love u for posting dis---------> http://youtube.com/watch?v=nZHNjzvrAxM

[Space-Cowboy]

Has anyone noticed that it's usually the guys who say "once you got your period, you're already a young woman." It's like those guys who say "Girls shouldn't get abortions." Let the ladies decide how their own bodies and sexuality work, since they're the onex experiencing it..not you fellas.


Once guys get their first grey hair, they're already gramps. :(