Did india screw the sikhs

[proud pun]

Did india screw the sikhs with operation bluestar and the 84 riots and the activity's of groups like rss today.

[Spiky]

Yeah pretty much, Fuck em and Fuck YOU n00b.

[DasJa]

What's India? And who are these "Sikhs" you speak off? :sarb:

[indiangq]

What's India? And who are these "Sikhs" you speak off? :sarb:
haha..

[chicano_desi]

Did india screw the sikhs with operation bluestar and the 84 riots and the activity's of groups like rss today.
23 years ago.
quit living in the past.

[livehard2004]

1984 made Canada n UK Land of Sikhs

[malkeet]

Did india screw the sikhs with operation bluestar and the 84 riots and the activity's of groups like rss today.

We sikhs are the minority in india, and like most minorities we have been targeted since the creation of our religion. Even though we are a minority, no1 whom has ever attacked us has ever been successful in destroying our religion. sikh soldiers are formiddable. infact when the british army invaded and took over all of india, punjab was the last state to be taken, and this was only after the death of maharaja ranjit singh. And the british army was so impressed by the sikh soldier saints that they made a whole regiment of sikhs.

anyways regarding the rss and 1984. sikhs have never really been happy since the partition in 1947 because we werent given khalistan like we were promised. the muslims essentially got pakistan, and the hindus got hindustan, but sikhs got nothing. since then there was a great movement for khalistan.

The 1984 attack on harminder sahib was done because they feared that sant jarnail singh brindanwale might actually succeed in making a sikh holyland in punjab. The government went in with tanks, heavy machine guns to the golden temple and killed thousands of pilgrams whom were attending celebrations for guru arjan martyrdom. however they did succeed in killing brindanwale. (well some wud say they didnt) since then i think most sikhs have accepted khalistan is never going to happen.

Regarding RSS. Many argue that the primarily hindu government feared that sikhisms very appealing and logical principles of equality, rejection of caste system/pilgramages/fasts/idol worship would cause it as a religion to spread throughout india and become the majority.

So the hindu goverment created organisations such as RSS and funded/supported sects such as the nirankaris to prevent this from happening.

So has india screwed us sikhs. i think it has. but i also think that if we as sikhs wish to get khalistan then we must learn to not argue amongst ourselves and be pure khalsa like guru gobind singh ji hoped.

[Spiky]

So has india screwed us sikhs. i think it has. but i also think that if we as sikhs wish to get khalistan then we must learn to not argue amongst ourselves and be pure khalsa like guru gobind singh ji hoped.


so you want a seperate "nation"?

:wtf: Why are people so fucking retarded?

[longjohnsilver]

We sikhs are the minority in india, and like most minorities we have been targeted since the creation of our religion. Even though we are a minority, no1 whom has ever attacked us has ever been successful in destroying our religion. sikh soldiers are formiddable. infact when the british army invaded and took over all of india, punjab was the last state to be taken, and this was only after the death of maharaja ranjit singh. And the british army was so impressed by the sikh soldier saints that they made a whole regiment of sikhs.

anyways regarding the rss and 1984. sikhs have never really been happy since the partition in 1947 because we werent given khalistan like we were promised. the muslims essentially got pakistan, and the hindus got hindustan, but sikhs got nothing. since then there was a great movement for khalistan.

The 1984 attack on harminder sahib was done because they feared that sant jarnail singh brindanwale might actually succeed in making a sikh holyland in punjab. The government went in with tanks, heavy machine guns to the golden temple and killed thousands of pilgrams whom were attending celebrations for guru arjan martyrdom. however they did succeed in killing brindanwale. (well some wud say they didnt) since then i think most sikhs have accepted khalistan is never going to happen.

Regarding RSS. Many argue that the primarily hindu government feared that sikhisms very appealing and logical principles of equality, rejection of caste system/pilgramages/fasts/idol worship would cause it as a religion to spread throughout india and become the majority.

So the hindu goverment created organisations such as RSS and funded/supported sects such as the nirankaris to prevent this from happening.

So has india screwed us sikhs. i think it has. but i also think that if we as sikhs wish to get khalistan then we must learn to not argue amongst ourselves and be pure khalsa like guru gobind singh ji hoped.

the result of many days work by a british civil servent... few were happy with the idea of segregation in the first place apart from fanatics, since it was known it would create nothing but more trouble... (at least by those with more than half a brain cell). Segregation would have found its own path, but when it was created by force, the result is what you see today.

[NdNStaTEofMinD]

Yeah pretty much. ITs quite fucked up really.

[Space-Cowboy]

We sikhs are the minority in india, and like most minorities we have been targeted since the creation of our religion. Even though we are a minority, no1 whom has ever attacked us has ever been successful in destroying our religion. sikh soldiers are formiddable. infact when the british army invaded and took over all of india, punjab was the last state to be taken, and this was only after the death of maharaja ranjit singh. And the british army was so impressed by the sikh soldier saints that they made a whole regiment of sikhs.

anyways regarding the rss and 1984. sikhs have never really been happy since the partition in 1947 because we werent given khalistan like we were promised. the muslims essentially got pakistan, and the hindus got hindustan, but sikhs got nothing. since then there was a great movement for khalistan.

The 1984 attack on harminder sahib was done because they feared that sant jarnail singh brindanwale might actually succeed in making a sikh holyland in punjab. The government went in with tanks, heavy machine guns to the golden temple and killed thousands of pilgrams whom were attending celebrations for guru arjan martyrdom. however they did succeed in killing brindanwale. (well some wud say they didnt) since then i think most sikhs have accepted khalistan is never going to happen.

Regarding RSS. Many argue that the primarily hindu government feared that sikhisms very appealing and logical principles of equality, rejection of caste system/pilgramages/fasts/idol worship would cause it as a religion to spread throughout india and become the majority.

So the hindu goverment created organisations such as RSS and funded/supported sects such as the nirankaris to prevent this from happening.

So has india screwed us sikhs. i think it has. but i also think that if we as sikhs wish to get khalistan then we must learn to not argue amongst ourselves and be pure khalsa like guru gobind singh ji hoped.

Sikhs are quite happy with India. The PM is Sikh, as are top ranking military officials. There are many prosperous Sikh businessmen in India as well. The formation of Khalistan WOULD screw over the population of Punjab both economically and politically. It would furthermore destabilize both India and Pakistan.

[Space-Cowboy]

Yeah pretty much. ITs quite fucked up really.


1984 and the next few years were pretty bad, that's true. But most Sikhs today have looked past that, and currently PM Singh is working to rectify the situation of that day 23 years ago, to bring all guilty parties to justice, but more importantly, working to make sure tragedies like these don't repeat.

[sWeEtnDsOuR]

Did india screw the sikhs with operation bluestar and the 84 riots and the activity's of groups like rss today.

yes...now hush up b4 u say or some other idiot says something dumb and starts another rd bs session

n e who..

hi!!! :wavey:

[Cunard]

at the time yes......but 1984 has very little visual effects in the region anymore....almost everyone has moved on....one of the last chapters of that whole affair is the lack of compensation or justice for the thousands of victims

Khalistan has no place today...perhaps more rights for Punjab such as control over its own resources...but thats really about it.

[106Kn104D]

We sikhs are the minority in india, and like most minorities we have been targeted since the creation of our religion. Even though we are a minority, no1 whom has ever attacked us has ever been successful in destroying our religion. sikh soldiers are formiddable. infact when the british army invaded and took over all of india, punjab was the last state to be taken, and this was only after the death of maharaja ranjit singh. And the british army was so impressed by the sikh soldier saints that they made a whole regiment of sikhs.

anyways regarding the rss and 1984. sikhs have never really been happy since the partition in 1947 because we werent given khalistan like we were promised. the muslims essentially got pakistan, and the hindus got hindustan, but sikhs got nothing. since then there was a great movement for khalistan.

The 1984 attack on harminder sahib was done because they feared that sant jarnail singh brindanwale might actually succeed in making a sikh holyland in punjab. The government went in with tanks, heavy machine guns to the golden temple and killed thousands of pilgrams whom were attending celebrations for guru arjan martyrdom. however they did succeed in killing brindanwale. (well some wud say they didnt) since then i think most sikhs have accepted khalistan is never going to happen.

Regarding RSS. Many argue that the primarily hindu government feared that sikhisms very appealing and logical principles of equality, rejection of caste system/pilgramages/fasts/idol worship would cause it as a religion to spread throughout india and become the majority.

So the hindu goverment created organisations such as RSS and funded/supported sects such as the nirankaris to prevent this from happening.

So has india screwed us sikhs. i think it has. but i also think that if we as sikhs wish to get khalistan then we must learn to not argue amongst ourselves and be pure khalsa like guru gobind singh ji hoped.

Punjab was the last place to taken because the British started taking states from Southeast (Calcutta) and moving West then North.

[NdNStaTEofMinD]

1984 and the next few years were pretty bad, that's true. But most Sikhs today have looked past that, and currently PM Singh is working to rectify the situation of that day 23 years ago, to bring all guilty parties to justice, but more importantly, working to make sure tragedies like these don't repeat.
Oh yeah its improved greatly. Manmohan Singh is a great prime minister and all but sometimes I dont really think that he is really doing anything to bring those involved in the Anti Sikh riots to justice...I dont wanna say this but sometimes I think that he might not really care(I know its a stupid thing to say)? But we'll find out within the next few years...

[Cunard]

Punjab was the last place to taken because the British started taking states from Southeast (Calcutta) and moving West then North.

the british sat on there hands for decades waiting till the sikh empire started to fracture...thus they moved in by throwing out the old peace treaties


two major wars broke out...but in the end the british were victorious

[Cunard]

Oh yeah its improved greatly. Manmohan Singh is a great prime minister and all but sometimes I dont really think that he is really doing anything to bring those involved in the Anti Sikh riots to justice...I dont wanna say this but sometimes I think that he might not really care(I know its a stupid thing to say)? But we'll find out within the next few years...

its not that he doesnt care....but he is helpless to do anything...those who are accused of violence have powerful positions and friends within the govt and chaos at a snap of their fingers...Manmohan Singh has to look at the security of the nation foremost...sadly that is at the expense of the victims

[NdNStaTEofMinD]

Punjab was the last place to taken because the British started taking states from Southeast (Calcutta) and moving West then North.
haha but Ranjit Singhs forces were a lot stronger than the other Indian ones. He had battle hardened Sikhs who had been fighting for a looonng time (along with some other "martial races" haha). And European mitlitarymen training his soldiers with all kinds of new weapons and strategies. Buncha bad asses.

[NdNStaTEofMinD]

its not that he doesnt care....but he is helpless to do anything...those who are accused of violence have powerful positions and friends within the govt and chaos at a snap of their fingers...Manmohan Singh has to look at the security of the nation foremost...sadly that is at the expense of the victims
True, True. That Fuckin Government pisses me off. Guess hes doin what anyone would do in his position..

[Space-Cowboy]

True, True. That Fuckin Government pisses me off. Guess hes doin what anyone would do in his position..

Still, the current govt. is MUCH much better than the one India just had a couple of years ago.... so, it's looking up.

[NdNStaTEofMinD]

Still, the current govt. is MUCH much better than the one India just had a couple of years ago.... so, it's looking up.
Yeah. But those Right wing "Hindu" parties HAVE to go...Now.

[Space-Cowboy]

Yeah. But those Right wing "Hindu" parties HAVE to go...Now.


I don't think we'll have to worry bout them soon.... they've gain some foothold, but only after certain concessions on their platforms, so I've heard.... I think they realize they need to get their act together and put their agenda more in tune with the common public.

Hopefully, they'll just end up dissolving..

[NdNStaTEofMinD]

I don't think we'll have to worry bout them soon.... they've gain some foothold, but only after certain concessions on their platforms, so I've heard.... I think they realize they need to get their act together and put their agenda more in tune with the common public.

Hopefully, they'll just end up dissolving..
Hopefully. These fools hardly know anything about Hinduism and they go around making up bullshit about other religions, mainly Sikhs. And They go around fucking over minorities constantly. They are just Hindu by name, not practice.
Way Too many Indians are actually falling for their bullshit(even some in the West)...makes me sick to my stomach.

[Space-Cowboy]

Hopefully. These fools hardly know anything about Hinduism and they go around making up bullshit about other religions, mainly Sikhs. And They go around fucking over minorities constantly. They are just Hindu by name, not practice.


:werd:

[Lord_Dirty]

1984 made Canada n UK Land of Sikhs

i agree

canada punjabian de nuva des

[Cunard]

1984 made Canada n UK Land of Sikhs

most came way before than...but sure :eek:

hindus, tamils, and others have been the main source of indian immigration for the past 20 years

[Lord_Dirty]

malton = sikh's first canadian pind lol

[chicano_desi]

malton = sikh's first canadian pind lol

all the desi's moved to springdale and the italians moved to woodbridge.
malton is now full of guyanese/trini's and black people.

[Cunard]

malton = sikh's first canadian pind lol

malton was lol....but its losing its "sikhness"....the sidewalks along morning star are getting darker and darker with tamils and west indians creeping in...rexdale is pretty tamil as well

[kudiPaTaKa]

Khalistan zindabad.

[kudiPaTaKa]

Khalistan murdabad.

[malkeet]

Sikhs are quite happy with India. The PM is Sikh, as are top ranking military officials. There are many prosperous Sikh businessmen in India as well. The formation of Khalistan WOULD screw over the population of Punjab both economically and politically. It would furthermore destabilize both India and Pakistan.

i agree that striving for khalistan isnt really worth it anymore, it will juss mess up the region. and its the most successful region in india, so the government would never allow it to become a separate state.

i think sikhs are still unhappy about the 1984 and 1978 incidents.i dont think the government has formally appologised to the sikh community for desicrating the harminder sahib. Also there are still news stories of sikhs being wrongly imprisoned/tortured even today.

i think the biggest threat to sikhism at the moment though is that a lot of youth arent interested anymore in the religion. Amritdharis i speak to tell me that in india hardly any youth are into sikhism, this is because drugs, alcoholism has hit the villages. They say theres more youth in england whom are into sikhi. which is good. but there is still a big majority of youth whom have no concept of there religion, and some are even converting to other religions. theres also a lot of corruption in gurdwaras, they;ve essentially become money making machines, a lot of committe members taking using the money for themselves.

[Space-Cowboy]

i agree that striving for khalistan isnt really worth it anymore, it will juss mess up the region. and its the most successful region in india, so the government would never allow it to become a separate state.

i think sikhs are still unhappy about the 1984 and 1978 incidents.i dont think the government has formally appologised to the sikh community for desicrating the harminder sahib. Also there are still news stories of sikhs being wrongly imprisoned/tortured even today.

i think the biggest threat to sikhism at the moment though is that a lot of youth arent interested anymore in the religion. Amritdharis i speak to tell me that in india hardly any youth are into sikhism, this is because drugs, alcoholism has hit the villages. They say theres more youth in england whom are into sikhi. which is good. but there is still a big majority of youth whom have no concept of there religion, and some are even converting to other religions. theres also a lot of corruption in gurdwaras, they;ve essentially become money making machines, a lot of committe members taking using the money for themselves.


I think what we need to concentrate on right now is just petitioning PM Singh to bring those responsible for that tragic day to justice, and helping the families who've suffered from that event... financial aid, etc.?

[malkeet]

I think what we need to concentrate on right now is just petitioning PM Singh to bring those responsible for that tragic day to justice, and helping the families who've suffered from that event... financial aid, etc.?

i think its very unlikely that compensation will be given. even though the pm is a singh, hes really powerless to do anything, the rest of the government behind him is pulling the strings.

[sikhndconquer]

1984 made Canada n UK Land of Sikhs

yeh foo real man

[proud pun]

I believe the people responsibile for 84 can be brought to justice, politics in india and for sikhs is really confusing on one hand after 47 the indian government thought sikhs would not be noticed in india and yet they went on to become the most wealthiest and most respected ppl in india which led to jealousy which led to walls constantly being put up to slow down the sikhs and put them down, for last couple of decades sikhs have knocked these walls down right now the top positions in the army belong to sikhs the sikhs are still the richest ppl in india and punjab is still the richest state but at the same time india is trying to screw sikhs over and over, khalistan failed because most sikhs were against it they worried about the economy and sikhs were not together. But i believe in more autonomy for the punjab and is something we should fight for but i think it scares the indian government and groups like bjp and rss because it makes them jealous to see sikhs prosper so much no matter how many walls they keep putting in the way, the government constantly to stop sikhs from dominating is what led to sikhs to go angry and call for khalistan this is what gave sant jarnail bhinranwale power. The indian government was scared sant jarnail bhinranwale would lead sikhs into dominating india.

[Lord_Dirty]

I believe the people responsibile for 84 can be brought to justice, politics in india and for sikhs is really confusing on one hand after 47 the indian government thought sikhs would not be noticed in india and yet they went on to become the most wealthiest and most respected ppl in india which led to jealousy which led to walls constantly being put up to slow down the sikhs and put them down, for last couple of decades sikhs have knocked these walls down right now the top positions in the army belong to sikhs the sikhs are still the richest ppl in india and punjab is still the richest state but at the same time india is trying to screw sikhs over and over, khalistan failed because most sikhs were against it they worried about the economy and sikhs were not together. But i believe in more autonomy for the punjab and is something we should fight for but i think it scares the indian government and groups like bjp and rss because it makes them jealous to see sikhs prosper so much no matter how many walls they keep putting in the way, the government constantly to stop sikhs from dominating is what led to sikhs to go angry and call for khalistan this is what gave sant jarnail bhinranwale power. The indian government was scared sant jarnail bhinranwale would lead sikhs into dominating india.


you make valid points veera, but its no use here

theres always gonna be some dickheads talking shit(about us, here) because they are behind a computer screen and not face to face

im surprised none of these cowards have opened their mouth in here yet

[malkeet]

I believe the people responsibile for 84 can be brought to justice, politics in india and for sikhs is really confusing on one hand after 47 the indian government thought sikhs would not be noticed in india and yet they went on to become the most wealthiest and most respected ppl in india which led to jealousy which led to walls constantly being put up to slow down the sikhs and put them down, for last couple of decades sikhs have knocked these walls down right now the top positions in the army belong to sikhs the sikhs are still the richest ppl in india and punjab is still the richest state but at the same time india is trying to screw sikhs over and over, khalistan failed because most sikhs were against it they worried about the economy and sikhs were not together. But i believe in more autonomy for the punjab and is something we should fight for but i think it scares the indian government and groups like bjp and rss because it makes them jealous to see sikhs prosper so much no matter how many walls they keep putting in the way, the government constantly to stop sikhs from dominating is what led to sikhs to go angry and call for khalistan this is what gave sant jarnail bhinranwale power. The indian government was scared sant jarnail bhinranwale would lead sikhs into dominating india.

how can they be brought to justice when the people responsible are the government? nice post btw

[proud pun]

At the same time i don't think anyone should blame hindus i mean their were khalistanis who killed inocent hindus like the guys who were accused for air india they were going out saying they'll kill 50 000 hindus. Why kill the hindus in the punjab when the punjab suffers both sikhs and hindus suffer in the punjab, we are both part of the same race same cultural background.

But their also were khalistanis who protected inocent hindus and wanted to bring a country like ranjit singh once had.

The people who killed rajiv gandhi were hindus. Many hindus protected sikhs during the 84 riots. Many hindus were pissed off to see what type of crimes were commited to the sikhs.

Kps gill and the punjab police which is 90% sikhs are the once who stopped khalistan and killed and tortured inocent sikhs.

I believe more autonomy for the punjab and sikhs shouldn't worry about a seperate country rather focusing on growing more powerfull in india, and sikhs can do it i mean the mughal battalions use to be biggier then the total population of sikhs and look what the sikhs accomplished they were able to make their own country that stretched from new dehli to afganistan, all of present day north india and pakistan was ruled by sikhs heck the british couldn't defeat the pashtans and the sikhs went and conquered 2/3 of their land.

[jumpn jza]

We sikhs are the minority in india, and like most minorities we have been targeted since the creation of our religion. Even though we are a minority, no1 whom has ever attacked us has ever been successful in destroying our religion. sikh soldiers are formiddable. infact when the british army invaded and took over all of india, punjab was the last state to be taken, and this was only after the death of maharaja ranjit singh. And the british army was so impressed by the sikh soldier saints that they made a whole regiment of sikhs.

all indians are a minority in india my freind...india is made up of minorities some larger than others...i mean...26 languages, 6 or 7 religions, multiple ethnicities.... Hell im from a minority group - im a malayalee christian theres only about 10 million of us in India!!...even hindus feel like they are a minority when u divide up their castes!!!...



anyways regarding the rss and 1984. sikhs have never really been happy since the partition in 1947 because we werent given khalistan like we were promised. the muslims essentially got pakistan, and the hindus got hindustan, but sikhs got nothing. since then there was a great movement for khalistan.

Practically speaking, dividing india further would just screw both sides over...in unity there is strength


So has india screwed us sikhs. i think it has. but i also think that if we as sikhs wish to get khalistan then we must learn to not argue amongst ourselves and be pure khalsa like guru gobind singh ji hoped.

imagine if all the indian minorities wanted to get their own land - india would no longer exist and our economy would crumble...

[proud pun]

malkeet i understand what your saying but at the same time how does being in government stop them from being punished, i know sikhs are strong enough to have these guys punished the the prime minister of india is a sikh ppl call him a puppet but he's the one who not only saved india's economy but is the reasion it is growing so fast one of the reasions he was made prime minister and he also made guys like tytler resign, it is really late for justice right now but having justice done is better then having no justice done at all.

[proud pun]

I think what we need to concentrate on right now is just petitioning PM Singh to bring those responsible for that tragic day to justice, and helping the families who've suffered from that event... financial aid, etc.?


Space cowboy i totally 100% agree with you.

[proud pun]

ppl who support rss are usually cowards attacking nuns and little children like cowards but face to face would cry and run for their mommy's. lol i mean you have these RSS supporters in north america and england yet go into hiding when their ppl are being attacked when their women are being converted yet in india they think their really brave because it takes 70 of them to attack one christian nun.

[malkeet]

all indians are a minority in india my freind...india is made up of minorities some larger than others...i mean...26 languages, 6 or 7 religions, multiple ethnicities.... Hell im from a minority group - im a malayalee christian theres only about 10 million of us in India!!...even hindus feel like they are a minority when u divide up their castes!!!......

"Hindu 80.5%, Muslim 13.4%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.1% (2001 census)"

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/in.html

a recent census. out of the 4 major religions listed above, sikhism is the smallest. only 1.9% of the total population!



Practically speaking, dividing india further would just screw both sides over...in unity there is strength

imagine if all the indian minorities wanted to get their own land - india would no longer exist and our economy would crumble...

agreed. i think the partition was very bad for india, especially how punjab was split into 2. nobody really wanted a partition except for that jinnah guy.
and i agree khalistan isnt necessary

[malkeet]

ppl who support rss are usually cowards attacking nuns and little children like cowards but face to face would cry and run for their mommy's. lol i mean you have these RSS supporters in north america and england yet go into hiding when their ppl are being attacked when their women are being converted yet in india they think their really brave because it takes 70 of them to attack one christian nun.

some of them caused trouble at a nagar kirtan here in coventry a few months ago, police stopped singhs from sorting them out.

[jumpn jza]

"Hindu 80.5%, Muslim 13.4%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.1% (2001 census)"

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/in.html

a recent census. out of the 4 major religions listed above, sikhism is the smallest. only 1.9% of the total population!



my point is that your only a minority if you feel like a minority...many south indians look at north india as one massive majority...see we can divide ourselves up in many different ways...and create different minorities everywhere!!!

U wanna talk about a really screwed over minority - check the adyavasis of india - they have no say in anything...

India is a land full of minorities and the problem is that everyone feels like they are under threat!!!

[proud pun]

some of them caused trouble at a nagar kirtan here in coventry a few months ago, police stopped singhs from sorting them out.

What lol hahaha so why didn't they smash them after the police left. Man i wish these guys would come to canada they usually exsist in america and england but in canada especially were i live they would get their brains blown out.

[proud pun]

some of them caused trouble at a nagar kirtan here in coventry a few months ago, police stopped singhs from sorting them out.


What were they trying to do.

[malkeet]

my point is that your only a minority if you feel like a minority...many south indians look at north india as one massive majority...see we can divide ourselves up in many different ways...and create different minorities everywhere!!!

U wanna talk about a really screwed over minority - check the adyavasis of india - they have no say in anything...

India is a land full of minorities and the problem is that everyone feels like they are under threat!!!

ok. i understand what your saying. its a shame different minorities cant live together with respect and tolerance for each other, but i guess thats something you see around the world..it seems a universal human trait to band together with similar people, and to hate/despise all those different.

[jumpn jza]

ok. i understand what your saying. its a shame different minorities cant live together with respect and tolerance for each other, but i guess thats something you see around the world..it seems a universal human trait to band together with similar people, and to hate/despise all those different.

I've always considered sikhs to be quite well represented in india anyway...i believe sikhs punch well above their weight in the way they are represented so you guys dont really count as a minority...

Adyavasis and Dalits - now theres an oppressed minority

[Cunard]

I believe the people responsibile for 84 can be brought to justice, politics in india and for sikhs is really confusing on one hand after 47 the indian government thought sikhs would not be noticed in india and yet they went on to become the most wealthiest and most respected ppl in india which led to jealousy which led to walls constantly being put up to slow down the sikhs and put them down, for last couple of decades sikhs have knocked these walls down right now the top positions in the army belong to sikhs the sikhs are still the richest ppl in india and punjab is still the richest state but at the same time india is trying to screw sikhs over and over, khalistan failed because most sikhs were against it they worried about the economy and sikhs were not together. But i believe in more autonomy for the punjab and is something we should fight for but i think it scares the indian government and groups like bjp and rss because it makes them jealous to see sikhs prosper so much no matter how many walls they keep putting in the way, the government constantly to stop sikhs from dominating is what led to sikhs to go angry and call for khalistan this is what gave sant jarnail bhinranwale power. The indian government was scared sant jarnail bhinranwale would lead sikhs into dominating india.

Bhindranwale was a congress party tool for years...he was used to garner support for Congress friendly allies for years...till he turned the tables on Indira Gandhi.....in the end the man led thousands of sikhs into the slaughter house and for what? In the end it was a Sikh general of the Indian Army that led the charge into the Golden Temple Complex which had its defenses set up by another sikh general...a war hero infact from the 1971 War in Bangledesh....the entire thing only ended up dividing sikhs...which inturn fell right into the hands of right wing hindus

[Space-Cowboy]

Bhindranwale was a congress party tool for years...he was used to garner support for Congress friendly allies for years...till he turned the tables on Indira Gandhi.....in the end the man led thousands of sikhs into the slaughter house and for what? In the end it was a Sikh general of the Indian Army that led the charge into the Golden Temple Complex which had its defenses set up by another sikh general...a war hero infact from the 1971 War in Bangledesh....the entire thing only ended up dividing sikhs...which inturn fell right into the hands of right wing hindus

I'd like to argue that these right wingers were acting as un-Hindu-like as possble... I'm even ashamed to call them Hindus, they certainly weren't following proper Dharma.

[proud pun]

some of them caused trouble at a nagar kirtan here in coventry a few months ago, police stopped singhs from sorting them out.


I did they do when they caused trouble at a nagar kirtan.

[Desi MC]

1984 made Canada n UK Land of Sikhs
WORD

[Punjabi_Link]

What lol hahaha so why didn't they smash them after the police left. Man i wish these guys would come to canada they usually exsist in america and england but in canada especially were i live they would get their brains blown out.

Word.

Don't fuck with Sikh Canadians.
:)

[olive]

here we go again :rolleyes:

[Space-Cowboy]

Yeah right!

^^^See, this is what's wrong with India, if anything.

Do you live in Punjab? No? I didn't think so.

I have both friends and family that live there, Sikhs btw, and THEY have a better feel for the atmosphere than you ever will.

:idea:

[DasJa]

^^^See, this is what's wrong with India, if anything.

Do you live in Punjab? No? I didn't think so.

I have both friends and family that live there, Sikhs btw, and THEY have a better feel for the atmosphere than you ever will.

:idea:
Don't worry about MnM there, his comments and general outlook on life have been quite retarded from the beginning.

[Space-Cowboy]

Don't worry about MnM there, his comments and general outlook on life have been quite retarded from the beginning.

:rofl: Another reason for me to leave this site as quickly as possible.

[DasJa]

Flatter yourself with that gibberish. You have friends and family who live there. I'm a sikh and I hail from punjab. My mom made 2 pony tails out of my hair back in '84 for even 3 year old kids were not spared.

:idea:
Don't sweat it out boy! We've all faced death sometime in our life.

[DasJa]

:rofl: Another reason for me to leave this site as quickly as possible.
:werd:

RD's gettin boring and too...how shall I best put it... ":no:"

[Space-Cowboy]

Flatter yourself with that gibberish. You have friends and family who live there. I'm a sikh and I hail from punjab. My mom made 2 pony tails out of my hair back in '84 for even 3 year old kids were not spared.

:idea:


Flatter yourself with pseudo intelligence, I've seen your posts, they're anything but well thought out. You don't LIVE in Punjab anymore, I talk DIRECTLY to people in Punjab, .... just the other day in fact. Now, I can tell you without a doubt, your metal-angst, is very much in the minority as far as today's Sikh youth in Punjab is concerned [you're not even Sikh, you're a self proclaimed atheist]..... I've talked to people who've lived in Punjab long before you were born. And guess what, despite the past, they are quite happy living there.

:idea:

[Space-Cowboy]

:werd:

RD's gettin boring and too...how shall I best put it... ":no:"

He's like every other one of RD's self proclaimed e-hero as he thinks he knows the low down on Punjabi youth's mentality.

[DasJa]

He's like every other one of RD's self proclaimed e-hero as he thinks he knows the low down on Punjabi youth's mentality.
lol...that's true.

Someone whose views are somewhat right-wing Sikh, but still admirable, is Cunard. He speaks with knowledge, while most of these ABCD's whose only touch with Punjab's been the yearly trip to Punjab, some TV serials, and gentle chat with old uncles and aunties. And armed with all that "experience" and "knowledge", they're earned the right to lecture true desi's (ppl who still carry an INDIAN passport), about how bad India's been to them. Neeeegur please :hand:

[Miz Jatti]

shalom guys, we're all injuns :mrhappy:



pssst.... abhiSHAKE u have an INDIAN passport? :love:

[Space-Cowboy]

Exactly! You sit here to live upto your cowboy persona and THINK about what to write while I just write what i KNOW. Attacking my posts won't get you far. A self proclaimed agnostic - atleast read correctly! I gave up on my religion for my own reasons. But i'm talking generally about the condition of sikhs post '84, whereas you have nothing but personal attacks.

I've nothing else to say to you for it would be a sheer waste of time.

No, I don't have 'nothing but personal attacks', I don't claim to 'know', or even to 'think'; I claim that I talk to people who DO know, because the live there right now and have lived there for their whole life.

Agnostic, Atheist, w/e.

[Space-Cowboy]

lol...that's true.

Someone whose views are somewhat right-wing Sikh, but still admirable, is Cunard. He speaks with knowledge, while most of these ABCD's whose only touch with Punjab's been the yearly trip to Punjab, some TV serials, and gentle chat with old uncles and aunties. And armed with all that "experience" and "knowledge", they're earned the right to lecture true desi's (ppl who still carry an INDIAN passport), about how bad India's been to them. Neeeegur please :hand:


Well no, one thing I'll say though. And I meant what I said: the modern Punjabi Sikh youth really just don't care. They [exact quote]: 'can't be bothered with the past, their eye is on making money and making a name for themselves'.

While I don't doubt the importance of this, I absolutely oppose the fact that they don't care about the past. I certainly want them to push PM Singh harder to issue a national apology and bring the guilty parties of '84 to justice. I mean, yes, PM Singh is working on it, but the Sikh youth in Punjab should be pressing harder for it.

They really just don't care, they're happy as is. <--- Again this I don't agree with, I mean yes, they are happy in India, but I think they should still be aware and still actively seek Justice from the govt. through petitions/letters/etc. As it stands, I'm encouraging both my friends and family in Punjab to write more letters to the govt. on this...

[DasJa]

shalom guys, we're all injuns :mrhappy:



pssst.... abhiSHAKE u have an INDIAN passport? :love:
Ofcourse!! Allegiance to the tri-color...ALWAYS :salut:

[DasJa]

Well no, one thing I'll say though. And I meant what I said: the modern Punjabi Sikh youth really just don't care. They [exact quote]: 'can't be bothered with the past, their eye is on making money and making a name for themselves'.

While I don't doubt the importance of this, I absolutely oppose the fact that they don't care about the past. I certainly want them to push PM Singh harder to issue a national apology and bring the guilty parties of '84 to justice. I mean, yes, PM Singh is working on it, but the Sikh youth in Punjab should be pressing harder for it.

They really just don't care, they're happy as is. <--- Again this I don't agree with, I mean yes, they are happy in India, but I think they should still be aware and still actively seek Justice from the govt. through petitions/letters/etc. As it stands, I'm encouraging both my friends and family in Punjab to write more letters to the govt. on this...
I understand what you're saying, my point is this:
To the Sikh youth,
If you've given up ur identity as Indian, only refer to urself as punjabi, want nothing to do with India, etc etc...you have no right to say anything to India. It's how outsiders call on America and sh*t. Like USA gives a flying f*ck what some ahmadijihad in Afghanistan or Iran thinks about them.

And I definitely agree with your point about getting a national apology on the 1984 issue. As well as reimbursement, and justice to all the wrong doers. And if the elder Sikh gentlemen and women demand it, then we should support and stand by them every step! But that's totally different from the sikh youth of today, mouthing off absolute gibberish.

[Gimmeck]

at the time yes......but 1984 has very little visual effects in the region anymore....almost everyone has moved on....one of the last chapters of that whole affair is the lack of compensation or justice for the thousands of victims

Khalistan has no place today...perhaps more rights for Punjab such as control over its own resources...but thats really about it.
DOT DOT DOT

[Miz Jatti]

Ofcourse!! Allegiance to the tri-color...ALWAYS :salut:


:salut: wow, thats so qualityyyyyyyyy!



:ashamed: saalay wouldnt let me keep dual nationality.

[Hevan]

Sikhs are quite happy with India. The PM is Sikh, as are top ranking military officials. There are many prosperous Sikh businessmen in India as well. The formation of Khalistan WOULD screw over the population of Punjab both economically and politically. It would furthermore destabilize both India and Pakistan.


People dont understand the socio-economic impact of "Khalistan"

[Sher E Punjab]

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KHALISTAN ZINDBARD

Khalistan is the Sikh homeland. By definition it means land of pure people. Currently it is under Indian government's control. Some people support it, some don't. Many people have different opinions about how to free Khalistan. Some people are just totally confused. So the purpose of this article is to explain why Khalistan is needed, how to free it and what free Khalistan will be like etc.

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First, it is important to talk about why Khalistan is needed. Khalistan is not a destiny, it is a necessity. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said: "Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain" which literally means that sovereignty is a MUST in order for a religion to survive; otherwise religion perishes. Now you can understand that even Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself has said it. There are many reasons why we (Sikhs) need Khalistan. I will give you some reasons starting from the beginning.

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We shouldn't live with Hindus for many reasons. Hindus have always betrayed Sikhs. From the time of Gurus, Hindus have always been against Sikhs. You can't find a single name of a Hindu who was loyal to Sikhs. During two holocausts in the 18th century and many wars against Mughals, Sikhs did not receive any help from Hindus, not even from Rajputs and Marathas. It was Hindus who betrayed Sikhs and helped British army to take over Punjab, Khalistan which included all of Pakistan and some of the Indian states like Kashmir, Haryana and Himachal Pardesh. For doing this Hindu Dogras got Kashmir and the rest of the country became part of the British empire. Sikhs had fought for helpless Hindus and freed their women from Muslim invaders for two hundred years and this is how Hindus returned the favor.

(((((((((((((((Even Punjabi Muslims fought against British from the side of the Sikhs))))))))))))))))))


but not the Hindus. Punjab was never part of India. Name "India" didn't even come until the east India company. British had occupied the whole of India but then Punjab was not part of British empire. It was a separate country. British ruled over India for more than 200 years and for 92 years over Punjab, Khalistan. After British took over Punjab it became part of British empire and when India gained independence it was handed over to the Indian government to be ruled. It was because of Hindus that Sikhs lost their country.

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Before India became independent the Hindus leaders of the new nation Nehru and Gandhi promised that Sikhs would be given full rights in India and that no law would be passed without consulting Sikhs.

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"...in future, the Congress shall accept no constitution which does not meet with the satisfaction of the Sikhs" (The Lahore session of the Congress Party. December 31, 1929)

"...the brave Sikhs of Punjab are entitled to special considerations. I see nothing wrong in an area set up in the North of India wherein, the Sikhs can also experience the glow of freedom." (Jawahar Lal Nehru, Lahore Bulletin, January 9, 1930)

"I ask you to accept my word and the Resolution of the Congress that it will not betray a single individual much less a community. Let God be the witness of the bond that binds me and the Congress with you (the Sikhs). When pressed further Gandhi said that Sikhs would be justified in drawing their swords out of the scabbards as Guru Gobind Singh had asked them to, if Congress would renege on its commitment." (Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, Young India, March 19, 1931)
"You (Sikhs) take my word that if ever the Congress or I betray you, you will be justified to draw the sword as taught by Guru Gobind Singh" (M. K. Gandhi).

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After the British left India, Sikhs were fired from their jobs and Hindus were hired. Then Indian constitution was written but Sikhs refused to sign it in the house of parliament because under Amendment (Dhara) 25 it declared Sikhism as part of Hinduism. When Sikhs talked to Nehru about their rights, he said "The time has changed now. If you wanted to live freely then why didn't you demand for a separate country from British?" Look at some more quotes that explain the real attitude of Hindus towards Sikhs.

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" To preserve the unity of India, if we have to eradicate 2-kror [ 20 millions ] Sikhs, we will do so. (Balram Jhakhar, a colleague of P.V. Narsimharao, the former Indian Prime Minister)

" The Sikhs are a lawless people and a menace to the law abiding Hindus ... The [Government] should take strict measures against them." (Pandit Nehru, Indian Prime Minister, on Sikhs)

"Kya main taqat dushman (the enemy -the Sikhs) ke haath main de dun (How can I entrust power into the hands of the enemies)." (Jawahar Lal Nehru, 1961)

" I hate the very physique of a Sikh because of the turban and beard. " (Vallabh Bhai Patel, late Indian top politician)

"I don't give a damn if the Golden Temple and whole of Amritsar are destroyed, I want Bhindranwale dead." (Indira Gandhi, Indian Prime Minister, communicating with Gen. Vaidya during "Operation Blue Star")

"We have broken the back of the Sikhs and we will get them elsewhere." (M. M. K. Wali, Indian Foreign Secretary, June 7, 1984, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Radio 740, As It Happens)

"Let us teach these bastards (the Sikhs) a lesson." (Rajiv Gandhi, October 31, 1984)

"... a threat to the villagers that all males would be killed and their women taken to army camps to breed a new race if there was any militant activity in their village." (Brig. R. P. Sinha, Indian Army, March 8, 1991)

"You do not know the might of our armed forces. We will eliminate 10,000 Sikh youths and the world will know nothing about it." (Chander Shekhar, former Prime Minister of India, CK, 21st October, 1991)

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When China attacked India from the side of Nepal and Kashmir, coincidentally, Nehru was near Nepal. When he heard the news of war, he forgot all about his peaceful speeches and called for the army. The military didn't arrive there for a few days. There were only 500 Sikhs who fought China and held Chinese army back. Nehru was saved by Sikhs and he came back to Delhi. As soon as he came back he said "How can I entrust power into the hands of the enemies?" Nepal's side was saved but China took over some of Kashmir which is still under their rule.

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In India all states were created on the language basis but Punjab was not declared a Punjabi State. Sikhs started demanding for a Punjabi state and Sikhs launched a peaceful morcha. More than 100,000 Sikhs were arrested but the government paid no attention to this matter. Nehru said "If there ever be a Punjabi state then all Sikhs will have to move to Punjab and the government will not be responsible for their safety." The morcha went on. During this morcha, Indian police walked in Darbar Sahib with their shoes on and tear gas was thrown inside the main building. In 1965 the war broke out between India and Pakistan. It was Sikhs who fought bravely and defeated Pakistan. Hindus couldn't stand in front of Pakistan's army

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After seeing loyalty of Sikhs, Indian government decided to create a Punjabi state but it was divided into three parts Haryana, Himachal Pardesh and whatever left was became Punjab. Other two parts became Hindi states and Punjab was declared a Punjabi state. Punjab was divided on purpose because Indian government had seen bravery of Sikhs and the government was afraid that if Sikhs turn against Indian government, they will take over or if they by any chance demand for a free Punjab then they won't have much land. Indian government also divided the Sikh army into many battalions. Indian government always wanted to divide Sikhs and it did by walking on the steps of British and adapting their theory called "divide and rule."

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The Indian government says Punjab was divided on the basis of language . The government says Sikhs did not occupy the majority in Punjab and Punjabi was not spoken in all parts of Punjab. But the fact is, the Indian government didn't want Sikhs to become majority which would make Hindu majority the leader of Punjab. In Patiala, when Sikhs outnumbered Hindus by 14,000, Nehru and Patel moved about 30 thousand Hindus in Patiala to show that Sikhs were a minority. Hinduism is a caste religion. Low caste people didn't have any rights in India. So they started converting to Sikhism because Sikhism gives equality to all people.

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Number of these low caste people were about 140 to 150 million and they were from 34 different castes. Seeing this Nehru and Patel gave more rights to low caste people and said only Hindus will have these rights. This stopped their conversion. Only 4 out of those 34 castes were considered Sikhs. Others claimed themselves as Hindus. Today, low caste people like Harijans have more rights. They even have reserved seats in colleges regardless of their grades. This was because of Patel.

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There is no high court in Punjab. Punjab has no control over its water, electricity and dams. All the electricity produced in Punjab is sent to Haryana, Rajasthan, Himacham Pardesh and Delhi. These states are given hydro projects which is affordable and cheap. The electricity that Punjab is given comes from the thermal plant which is more expensive. Don't think its better for Punjab. Instead it is worse because most of the electricity will be used by farmers who happen to be Sikhs. This means they will have to pay more than others. It doesn't effect Hindus because they live in cities and work in other professions. Cheap electricity which belongs to Punjab and which could save Sikh farmers some money is given to the other Indian states.

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The government increased its activities against Sikhs in late the 70s which led to massacre of thirteen Sikhs in 1978 who were peacefully protesting against an Indian agent who was preaching anti Sikh material. When Sikhs filed a case in the supreme court in Punjab, it was heard in Haryana because the majority was Hindus in that state. Those majority people (Hindus) accused Sikhs for causing the trouble and the agent and his followers were released. This really outraged Sikhs. At that time a person named Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale started preaching Sikhism in Punjab and all over India. He spoke against Indian activities against Sikhs. His speeches made Sikhs realize that they were not free in India. They were being treated like second class citizens. Sikhs started demanding more rights and wanted to be treated like first class citizens.

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((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Sikhs launched a peaceful march.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) A band of 51 Sikhs would go to protest peacefully and would get arrested by the police. But Indian government didn't care and more than 150,000 Sikhs were arrested. This lasted for more than two years. In between this time, the police burnt copies of Sri Guru Granth Sahib at Mehta Choank, killed many Sikhs in fake encounters. But not a single case was filed. On the other hand when a Hindu was killed by police, prime minister Indira Gandhi herself came over to his house and gave his family money. His case was filed within hours. But police and the government did not do anything when copies of Sri Guru Granth Sahib were burnt. Many Sikhs were killed but their families didn't receive anything from the government. Indian government completely showed that one Hindu's life was more important than not only 150 Sikhs that were killed but also Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.



((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((instructed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji to get freedom. Seeing this Indian government launched a sudden attack on Golden Temple and killed thousands of Sikhs. Other 45 Gurdwaras were also attacked by the army.))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

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((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Women were dishonored. Many innocent children were killed. After the attack was over all Sikhs inside the Golden Temple were taken out, lined up and then shot dead.:@:@:@:@:@:@:@:@ WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?.)))))))))))))))))))))) ))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Reference library which included many hand written scriptures and priceless antiques was burnt. One bullet had gone through Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Indian troops walked inside Golden Temple with their shoes on. They smoked cigarettes, drank alcohol inside the Gurdwara which was highly disrespectful to the Sikh faith. If there was Khalistan, there would have been no attack on the Golden Temple.

After Indira Gandhi was killed, Hindus killed more than 5,000 Sikhs within five days and these riots were led by the congress. Sajjan Kummar (still alive), Lalat Makan and Arjan Das (killed by Sukhdev Singh and Harjinder Singh) were congressmen who played a major role in these riots. They were gives orders by Rajiv Gandhi, Narsima Rao and Attal Bihar Vaajpai (Indian prime minister now). Many Hindu criminals were released from jails to kill Sikhs and each was given 500 rupees and one bottle of liquor. Congressmen gave Hindus the list of Sikhs' properties and their home addresses. Hindus went from house to house, dragged Sikhs, especially young males, out of their homes and burnt them alive. Their properties were looted and destroyed. Hindus' target was to kill Sikh males from age 10 to 40. Women above age of 14 were dishonored. This went on without any interruption from the police. In fact, the police was helping these mobs. Every bus on the road was stopped and checked if there were any Sikhs traveling in it. If they found any Sikh, he was killed on the spot. Police was motivating the mobs by saying "If Sikhs were given even one day to kill Hindus, they would've killed all Hindus in India. You, on the other hand are too slow." These brutal things happened to Sikhs in India. If there was Khalistan there would've been no riots and Hindus wouldn't have dared to attack Sikhs.

Sikhs are being killed in fake encounters. There is disappearance of Sikh youth in Punjab. Indian government has killed from 1 to 1.2 million Sikhs and about 70 thousand Sikhs are in jail. Here are some of the methods of torture, humiliation and atrocities used by Indian Government against the Sikhs. These are taken from www.saintsoldiers.net

To interrogate the Sikhs, a round log of wood is placed on their legs, and after putting heavy weight on the log it is rotated on the legs.

Chilly powder is sprinkled in the eyes and sex organs of the Sikhs.

Sikhs are hung upside down from the ceilings till they became unconscious.

The body joints are battered.

Electric shocks are administered to the genitals making most of the youth impotent

Sikh women, during interrogation, are hurt in their sex organs. Filthy abuse is showered on them.

Violence is inflicted on the parents in presence of their sons and daughters and vice-versa.

Brothers are forced to beat sisters and vice versa. violence is inflicted on adult girls after stripping them naked and their sex organs are damaged. They are sexually assaulted, pregnancies are terminated of the expectant females.

Crotchets are pulled apart.

The victims of inhuman violence are made to sit naked in winter, and under the sun in summer, kept sleepless for days in solitary cells.

Sikhs are subjected to severe beatings and filthy abuse in the presence of their village folks.

Dead bodies of Sikhs killed in fake encounters are not handed over to their parents to conceal marks of excessive violence

The state manipulates tailored post mortem reports from the doctors, and burns the dead bodies of the Sikhs after falsely declaring them unclaimed.

All sorts of excesses are made on the parents of underground Sikh youths.

Indiscriminate atrocities are committed on the parents of the underground youth of the area where some militant action takes place.

Atrocities are committed without caring for one's age, health, life or death. If some one luckily survives such brutal excesses, it is well and good But if one dies while under "interrogation", then such a dead body is taken out, pierced with some bullets, and a news item is sent that a dreaded terrorist has been shot dead in an encounter

Houses of underground Sikh youths are demolished, their belongings are looted, crops destroyed, their tube well motors are taken away, and they are prevented from sowing crops.

Even animals of the families of underground Sikh youth are subjected to police anger. After summoning the families to the police station, villagers are told not to take care of the animals of the families of the underground youth. Generally the animals starve to death.

False cases are registered against innocent Sikh youths, later they are let off taking fat bribes.

Reporters giving true reports are arrested, an undeclared censorship is imposed on them to stop them from exposing police atrocities.

Peaceful protests by the Human rights organizations are prohibited.

Press is used to launch vicious and false propaganda against the Sikhs.

Hardened criminals are inducted into Sikh movement to help in arresting the Sikh revolutionaries and sabotage the movement. Such criminals are inducted to tarnish the fair name of the Sikh revolutionaries are now called the "Black Cats" in the Punjab. Under SSP Izhar Alam, such criminal gangs were named the "Alam Sena." Besides, such police sponsored bands of criminals also operated under the name of Panthic Tiger Force and "Red Brigade." The director general of the police himself admitted about the "Black Cats" bands. In his interview to the India Today on Sept. 15, 188, KPS Gill had announced without an iota of shame that the security forces in Punjab cannot do anything without the help of secret bands (Black Cats).

Thousands of innocent pilgrims, children, females, aged people, who got encircled in the Golden Temple during Operation Bluestar were made to die through starvation and thirst. The whole of Punjab was converted into a vast jail by clamping curfew on the entire area. The army bulletin branded all Amritdhaaree's as terrorists.

Indian army desecrated the Gurdwaras and committed such atrocities on the Sikhs that even the soul of Ahmed Shah Abdali might have felt ashamed of.

The targets of army guns were none else but religious persons, devotees, pilgrims, ladies, old people, children or some militants whom the Indian government deemed as terrorists.

No neutral observer was allowed to take stock of the situation.

The injured during the attack on the Golden Temple were subjected to extreme partiality. Whereas every assistance and facility was made available to the injured army personnel, there was no such provision for the wounded belonging to the other side.

The number of prisoners taken was rather small. There is ample scope for doubt that the Indian army had thought it better to eliminate the thousands of people seized in the Golden Temple instead of taking them prisoners or having to provide them with medical assistance.

No need was felt to perform religious rites for the dead pilgrims and devotees.

Before consigning the dead bodies to flames, no effort was made to identify them. No relatives were informed.

No dead bodies were handed over to the next of kin. In such a situation only the dead or those wishing to be dead could be present at the last rites.

All dead bodies were placed in heaps and then con- signed to flames. IT was never insured that among the dead there could also be some Muslim devotees. To cremate is against the tenets of Islam.

No need was felt to give a list of the dead to the Red Cross or any other International Agency

Despite such atrocities, no commission was appointed to go into this dark episode. Even the British, the foreign rulers, had cared to appoint the Hunter commission to inquire into the Jallianwalla Massacre which was of a much less magnitude on the other hand. The Indian government, on the other hand, took all steps to hide the excesses of the army.

These days, Indian government has flooded Punjab with Dehdhari Gurus (human fake Gurus) who preach against Sikhism. RSS, Shiv Sena and Bajrang Dal with the support of Indian government are distributing drugs in colleges. Sikhs are being humiliated in newspapers, on televisions and in movies. Anti-Sikh books are being published by the government to prove that Sikhism is part of Hinduism and Sikhs are Hindus although they will never succeed. If there was Khalistan, there would be no bars in Punjab, no anti Sikh propaganda, no humiliation of Sikh character by the media, and no drug distribution on the land of the Gurus.

Some people have many different questions on Khalistan. So I will try to answer those question to the best of my knowledge. First lets look at what American Sikhs of Sikhnet.com say about Khalistan.

"The Gurus believed in creating harmony between people of different faiths, so that we could all live together as children of the same God. Khalistan, to me, doesn't support that mission. It creates even more divisions in the name of religion when the Khalsa are here to protect and serve so that religions don't divide people any more. If all of the money, time and energy different people spent on trying to create Khalistan were instead channeled into securing true freedom of religion for all people, the Sikhs would be loved, honored and admired. Sikhs are here to serve the interests of the entire humanity, not just their own interests. This is what a sovereign does. Remember, the Khalsa are the spiritual royalty of the world. We are here to rule-not through power and politics, but through love and service. We are here to protect-not ourselves, but all people. We are here to secure that every human being has a chance to enjoy his or her life the way God intended. That is our duty. Khalistan distracts us from that duty."

Yes, Gurus did believe in creating harmony between people of different faiths but what if those faiths turn against us and don't let us fulfill our mission which is Khalsa's mission, then what? Shouldn't we fight for our rights as instructed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji? What is the meaning of the Kirpan if we don't fight for freedom? It is not about land, it is about freedom of religion, speech and everything else. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that Khalsa should live a free life, but how can we live a free life under someone else's rule especially Hindu rule? Guru Gobind Singh Ji taught Sikhs to stay away from "Bipran Ki Reet". The only way to stay away from it is by having the freedom to fully practice our religion. Since 1947, more and more Sikhs have started following Bipran Ki Reet but not a single Sikh followed Bipran Ki Reet in 18th century. When Sikhs had their own country (1799-1849), it was the best era in Sikhism. Look at all the good things Sikhs did. Sikh population increased significantly. People from America and many European countries lived in the Sikh Kingdom. Did Sikhs not serve the humanity then? Who was not happy in the Sikh country? Not a single person was unhappy and no one was given a death sentence. At the fall of Sikh kingdom Hindus and Muslims both shed tears. This shows that Khalsa treated everyone equally. That's why people of all faiths cried from their hearts when British annexed Punjab.

In order to serve the humanity you need lots of money and power. To get money you need a country that would back you up. For example, how did Christian missionaries serve the humanity? They had many countries behind them which gave them all the money they needed. In India, Christian schools were opened by missionaries but the money was provided by England and America. If we have Khalistan, we can do better job in preaching the message of truth. Without political power, it is impossible because there will always be people against you and your religion. Indian government and Brahmins are well aware of Gurus' message but they are doing their best job to destroy it because they are jealous of it. After learning the truth about Sikhism, the British tried to make many conflicts between Sikhs and tried to destroy the Sikh religion. Why were there no converts from English people after they learned the truth? Simple, its because they were jealous because Sikhism preaches the message of truth which conflicts with Christianity.

If we have Khalistan, it is a lot easier to do the job. Khalistan will provide money for preachers who would preach the truth. People will only hear you when you have the power, otherwise they will crush you. For example, famous scientist Galileo discovered the truth but did anyone listen to him? He didn't have any political power, so he was killed. Those Christian priests didn't listen to him even though he was telling the truth. If we send a Sikh preacher to preach to any country like Afghanistan, he would be killed because Muslims would not tolerate anything that conflicts with Islam. Then who would be responsible for his death? No country would put force on Afghanistan's government to punish the murderers. But if the same preacher is sent from Khalistan, he has political power behind him which means its less likely that he would be killed. There will a country behind him that supports him. Khalistani government would put pressure on Afghanistan's government to hand over the murderers so they could meet the justice. People will listen to Sikhs if Sikhs have power. Through power we can teach that people shouldn't fight in the name of religion and should live together. We should be worried about our safety first. By living in Khalistan, we can set an example for the people. Who would listen to you if you have no recognition in the world?

People would have better knowledge about Sikhism. If people see a person with a turban, they would say he is a Sikh from Khalistan. But today if a Sikh is seen, he is misunderstood to be a Muslim or Hindu. If a Sikh says he is from India, most people automatically assume he is a Hindu. How many people really know about the Sikh religion? Sikhism is more than 500 years old and yet only some 30 million people know the message of the Gurus. WHY? If there is Khalistan, the message of Gurus can be preached in better ways. Think about it. We can teach people how to rule with love and humility if we have Khalistan. Because Khalistan will set an example for them. Khalistan means freedom of religion for the Sikhs. Why would Sikhs ask for freedom of religion if there was no interference in Sikhism by the Indian government? Without Khalistan we can hardly survive let alone having the responsibility of preaching to others. We can't even solve our own issues and Sikhnet is talking about solving world issues and serving the humanity. Thousands of Sikhs were killed in 1984 and their families received no support from anyone. Shouldn't we take care of our people first and then set an example for others and teach them how to do it? For example, If I drink alcohol and tell someone else not to drink it, would he listen to me? It will be all in vain. We need to do it first which means taking care of those orphans whose parents sacrificed for the Sikh faith. Have Sikhnet people served those people yet? They live in America. What do they know about situation of Punjab and Sikhs living there? They are definitely not serving people living in many third world countries. Besides, they have already separated themselves from the rest of the world by living in America. If Khalistan divides people then they are divided already because America is also separated from other countries. American government sent air force to Afghanistan that bombed many cities and killed many innocent people. Have Sikhnet people taught anything to their own government yet? Their own government divided them and separated them from the rest of the world. How can we preach freedom of religion if we are not free and don't have freedom of religion. As I have stated in beginning that Guru Gobind Singh Ji said in his own words "Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain" means sovereignty is a MUST in order for a religion to survive otherwise religion perishes. Now should we listen to Sikhnet people and anti Khalistan people or Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sikhism is a way of life which says religion, science and politics are together. That's why Akaal Takhat Sahib stands in front of Darbar Sahib. I just don't know how can Khalistan distract them from doing anything that Sikhi requires.

"All Sikhs-regardless of what their cultural background-recognize the line as saying, "Khalsa shall rule." The question is-in what manner will they rule? The ruler ship of Khalsa is not one of physical might, but one of spiritual sovereignty."

Very true, but Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Ji, Baba Nand Singh Ji, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranwale and many other saints have said that Khalsa Rule of the world shall come through humility. A Khalsa rules over his five thieves and maya which makes him a spiritual ruler. This means there is a spiritual sovereignty. If we look at Sikhs of 18th century, we find that each and every one of them was a real Sikh and Khalsa. They were real Sikhs who had total control over five thieves because they had reached the highest level of spirituality. So they were ruling spiritually already. The problem with the above interpretation is that it implies that no Khalsa has been capable of spiritual sovereignty because it says Khalsa will rule spiritually. Another question rises from this interpretation. It also implies that Sikhs have been reading "Raj Karega Khalsa" for over 300 years and they had been unable to understand its true meanings until these "White Sikhs" came along. This is very wrong. All Sikhs knew what it meant. Only Khalsa is qualified for sovereignty. Now, if we look at the Shabad clearly, we find that "Khalsa" is referred to the whole Panth not a single person. Because a Khalsa who becomes one with the Guru and has total control over five thieves has spiritual sovereignty already. So it must be referring to the whole Panth. When the whole Panth gets together and wakes up in the morning to do Naam Simran, Khalsa Raj will come and there is no doubt about it. I don't say it, many respected Saints in the Panth have said it. Bhai Rama Singh Ji from England has said the same thing and it is well written in his book. Guru Ji has given us the Raj but are we well qualified or capable of ruling? The only way Khalsa is qualified to rule is when Khalsa does Naam Simran and follows the Rehat Maryada of Guru Ji. Today Sikhs are not doing that. Most of Sikhs do not even take Amrit. So are we qualified? No we are not. Sikhnet people have no understanding about the Sikh history of 18th century.

"Being a Sikh in Northern India is both a cultural ethnicity and a spiritual identity. Because of that-there are a lot of issues that you face in the Punjab related to politics, society and culture. Those of us who have become Sikhs in the West already have a cultural and political identity. However, Sikhs in the Punjab have political, social and economic challenges to face. Because of that, you connect very strongly with Guru Gobind Singh's message of standing up to tyranny and becoming sovereign over your own life. We firmly believe that when people are willing to live in tune with the Will of God, then all these social, political and economic injustices will automatically come back into balance. But as long as people do not live surrendered to the Will of God, the imbalances will continue. If it God's will that the Sikhs have an independent state, then all you need to do is meditate and learn how to surrender yourself to God's Will and by His hand, without any effort from your ego, it shall happen."

There are many problems with the above statements. First they say they don't support dividing people but now they say "It is not their issue that Punjabi Sikhs are being killed in India." When a person takes Amrit he loses his own identity and his caste. After taking Amrit he/she belongs to Anandpur Sahib and his father is Guru Gobind Singh Ji and mother Mata Sahib Kaur Ji. Anandpur Sahib is in Punjab. So either you belong to Punjab or you belong to America. According to the above statement Sikhnet people do not want to belong to Anandpur Sahib. They say they already have a culture but American culture is so anti-Sikh. Just look at it. Does American culture fit in Sikh religion? Not at all. When you become a Sikh your identity either political or spiritual becomes one. So there is no point in saying that they have different political identity. There is no political system better than Akal Takhat's Sahib which was set up by Guru Ji. By saying they already have a political identity they mean that they don't belong to political system of Guru Gobind Singh instead they belong to American politics which is created by humans. Once you are 21 you can legally buy drugs and smoke tobacco in America. This is the American law. Is this the identity they belong to???? Use of tobacco and drugs is prohibited in Sikhi and is against Sikh principles but American political laws legalized it. If you are a Sikh, you belong to Anandpur Sahib and the highest political authority for you becomes Akaal Takhat Sahib. Did Panj Pyare not tell them this or they are sticking with American political system on purpose? Sikhs are connected with Akaal Takhat Sahib just as the Catholics are connected with the Vatican.

Sikhs are not fighting because they want to rule over others. They are fighting for the truth because Indian government attacked Golden temple and killed thousands of Sikhs. Khalsa is fighting against oppression. Khalistan is not about political issues. It is about religious freedom. Guru Ji taught us to fight for the truth and for justice. Did Guru Ji not fight for justice? He did and so is His Khalsa. Sikhs in the 18th century fought for truth and the right cause. Did they not live in tune with will of God? Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought against oppression because Guru Ji said "When all other means have failed, it is your right to raise arms and fight for your rights." This is exactly what Sikhs are doing. We have to be both Saints and Warriors. Practicing Naam Simran and fighting against oppression at the same time is what Guru Ji has taught us. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that sovereignty is a MUST for a religion otherwise it perishes. Do they have different interpretation of this? If the only purpose of Sikhi is to meditate and accept the will of God then what was the point of building Akaal Takhat Sahib?

The whole point is to fight for the truth while doing Naam Simran and following Sikhi. Besides, fighting for justice and righteousness is part of Sikhi which they are not following. A Khalsa should fight his inner thieves and outer thieves. If you don't fight then anyone can take over you. If everything is only about meditating then Guru Nanak Dev Ji wouldn't speak against Babur. Babur didn't do anything to Guru Ji but Guru Ji spoke for human rights and the truth. Why didn't Guru Ji just say "these are not my issues. I am not being harmed. If others are being harmed then its not my problem?" Why didn't Guru Ji say this if this is the right way? Why didn't Guru Nanak Dev Ji wait for God to end the whole oppression? Why did Guru Ji have to speak for the people?

Why should we wait for God to do something? "God helps those who help themselves" (Benjamin Franklin-an American politician and forefather). This is very true. If we should wait for God to do something then why didn't Guru Ji wait for God to do something? Why did Guru Ji fight? Why did Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji sacrifice to save the Hindu religion? He could've waited for God to fix the whole problem but He didn't because Guru Ji knew it was not the right way. If we just sit back and start doing Naam Simran then anyone would be able to crush us. Guru Ji made us Saint-Warriors. So where is the warrior spirit in Sikhnet people? God gave us two hands and Kirpan is given by Guru Gobind Singh Ji and we have to fight for our rights with our hands if it comes to it. Sikhs are instructed to make their own destiny not to just sit back and wait for God to do it. Then what would be the purpose of God given hands? For example, look at Jews. They are accepting the will of God but there are less Jews in the world than Sikhs. Did they not accept will of God in WW2 in which they lost 6 million of their people? Had they fought using their hands, the outcome of the holocaust may be different. They have suffered for over 5000 years but if they had fought against oppression it would have been a lot different.

The Indian government's plan was to go to every village to kill Sikhs which was called Operation Wood Rose but the Sikh army rebelled and government's attention turned to rebellions, otherwise they would've killed all Sikhs. I speak for human rights whether it be Sikhs or Jews or Christians. I think the Sikhnet people are missing the whole point. By the time they realize the truth, it will be too late but Khalsa Shall Rule. Punjab belongs to us and we will rule it. I want to ask them one question: If the whole American government turns against them (Sikhnet people) and their children are killed in the streets, men are burnt alive, women are dishonored and the government doesn't punish the criminals, would they still say that they are proud to be Americans or would they rather support a separate country? Would they still live among those who killed them? Would they raise a sword and fight like Guru Gobind Singh Ji has taught us or they rather spend their time in serving the criminals and not fight for justice? Or would they just forget about the whole thing, get themselves killed and wait for God to do something? Guru Ji said "Soora So Pehchaniye Jo Lare Deen Ke Haith" which literally means "Brave are those who fight for truth and justice with honor and valor." So why shouldn't we fight to protect our faith? If we should wait for God to do it then why did Guru Ji say these lines? Just for the heck of it? Think about it. Perhaps they should get themselves out of the trap of pacifist thinking and think about the teaching of Gurus only for a moment. We are responsible for our own actions and for doing good and bad things.

The Sikhnet people say they belong to America but their own government doesn't recognize them. September 11 was a very bad disaster for Sikhs. How many Americans know about Sikhi? These Americans killed Sikhs. Sikhs were attacked all over the country (look at attacks on Sikhs http://www.attacksonsikhs.com/viewreports.cfm). If there was a Sikh country to back up the foreign Sikhs and to give them support, this wouldn't have happened. Sikhs should always wear a Kirpan but Sikhs are not allowed to wear Kirpans on airplanes, and other government places. Not even in most schools. Sikhs have been living in America for over 100 years and yet American government hasn't understood the significance of Kirpan and they never will until there is a country that represents Sikhs. Sikhs are not admitted in the army and police. In America, which is the most democratic country in the world, Sikhs are being discriminated. In Khalistan Sikhs will be allowed to wear Kirpans everywhere and only then the world would learn about the true message of Sikhi.

If there was a Sikh country, no one would have attacked Gurdwaras and killed Sikhs. If there was a Sikh country, the situation would have been different and Punjab wouldn't be stuck between the nuclear war of India and Pakistan. If there is a war, the whole of Punjab will be destroyed. How does their community service help solving the real problems of Sikhs? The Indian government is spending billions of rupees to bring Sikhism into the fold of Hinduism. How does their community service help Sikhs to stop Indian government, RSS and Noormahals from attacking their Sikh brothers in Punjab and India? How?

Sikhs are fighting to keep their distinction and appearance, to save their religion and to keep Sikhi alive. If that means a separate country then why not? It doesn't mean we want to divide the world but shouldn't we think about securing Sikh faith first and all the virtues it stands for? If the Indian government doesn't like us and doesn't want to live with Sikhs, then why shouldn't we just be separated? When we gain power we can promote Sikhi and teach the message of the Gurus and universal brotherhood. Can this not be done? Khalistan is not for bad purpose. When I ask any non-Punjabi Sikh about Khalistan, the vast majority have the same answer that they don't want to be separated or wouldn't want to move to Khalistan. But who says you have to move. Sikhs will still live in other countries. But most of Sikhnet people reply in exactly the same words. Sounds like they need to learn the true purpose of fighting. Perhaps they are sticking with community service a whole lot but what if those people we want to help turn against us, should we not fight to defend ourselves? If yes, then that's exactly what Sikhs are doing. If no, then that is not Sikhi.

Now some general questions from Punjabi people. These are the people who are not Amritdhari. They don't practice Sikhism at all. They eat meat, drink alcohol, smoke and do everything that is prohibited by Gurus and yet they call themselves Sikhs. Before I go into their questions, I want to say that only an Amritdhari person is a Sikh. One who follows Guru's teaching is a Sikh and Khalistan is for Sikhs. Everyone will have religious freedom but people who commit adultery, smoke, drink alcohol etc. will not be allowed to live there because not only Sikhism but also all religions prohibit these things.

How would Khalistan survive economically?

Well, how did India and Pakistan survive after independence? UAE gained its independence in 1971 and it is surviving. Same way Khalistan will survive but it will not be a third world country because Sikhs are very hard working people. Punjab is a cultivated land and it provides most of the food for India. Punjab produces corn, wheat, sugarcanes, sporting goods, clothing, industrial material and many other commodities. Khalistani government will keep this stuff as much as it needs and the rest will be shipped out to other countries as a trade and in return oil and other necessities will be bought. No one in Khalistan will die out of hunger because if Punjab can provide food for 90% of the Indian population then it surely can provide food for everyone in Khalistan because the population in Khalistan will be a lot less than Indian population.

Who will be the leader of Khalistan?

Panj Pyare will be the leaders of Khalistan. Elections will be held every four years and people will choose Panj Pyare. These Panj Pyare will rule under the authority of Akaal Takhat Sahib. Every city will have Panj Pyare as its leader. There will be no bad leaders in Khalistan because when Khalsa Panth starts doing Naam Simran in the morning, it will gain spiritual power which no one will be able to destroy. Foundation of Khalistan will be laid upon the power of Naam Simran. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said "When Khalsa starts following the true path of the Guru Granth Sahib and abandons all the bad things, I will give them sovereignty." So when the time for Khalistan comes, every Sikh will be a true Sikh and there will be no bad people in Sikhism. Guru Ji said "Raaj Karega Khalsa Aakki Rahe Na Koe" which means Khalsa shall rule and there will be no one against Khalsa. Khalsa Raj (Khalistan) shall come for sure. Khalistan will be a true Khalsa Raj.

What about sea ports?

There are 42 landlocked countries in the world that are surviving. To say or think that just because of lack of seaport Khalistan will not survive is irrational. There are many third world countries that have sea ports such as Sri Lanka, and Brazil. Landlocked countries are helped by their neighboring countries that have seaports. In return these countries get money and/or something else in exchange. There are numerous possibilities in business. We can use Pakistan’s and/or India’s seaports. I don’t think there is any country that does not want to do business and make profit. How exactly would this work depends on the future, circumstances and situations. Oil can also be imported through India or Pakistan. United Nations is working on passing a treaty that would help landlocked countries get access to seaports. We can survive without a seaport.

What would happen if there is war between Pakistan and India?

Khalistan will be a neutral country and will be a buffer state between the two countries. With Khalistan as a buffer state both countries will feel safe from each other. Neither Pakistan nor India would dare to step on Khalistan's boundaries. India has fought two wars with Pakistan and every time Pakistan was defeated because only Sikhs fought on the boundaries of Punjab. Sikhs are a martial race. British recognized that soon after Punjab was annexed. Guru Gobind Singh Ji made Sikhs saint-warriors. Sikhs in Khalistan will be true saints and warriors. They will have power of Naam Simran because they will free Khalistan on the power of Naam Simran and one who has this power is never afraid of anyone other than God. By doing Nam Simran one never fears death. We have numerous example from the 18th century. Sikh country will be very powerful and Pakistan would not try to mess with it. Hindus can't fight, so there is no question that Indian government will ever dream of attacking Khalistan. If there is war between India and Pakistan, they will have to fight it outside of Sikh territory.

What about control over Gurdwaras outside of Khalistan?

Well, all the Gurdwaras will be directly controlled by the Khalistani government run under Akaal Takhat Sahib. Currently, Indian government is not doing anything about the Gurdwaras in Pakistan, Afghanistan and other countries because the Indian government doesn't want Sikhs to be attached with their Gurdwaras. Indian government thinks the only way to destroy Sikhism is to keep Sikhs away from Guru Granth Sahib's message and the Gurdwaras. Gurdwaras outside of India are still standing without the support of Indian government but when there is Khalistan, the government will do its best to take care of these holy places and agreements will be made with the other countries that would give us the direct control over the Gurdwaras. We can negotiate with Pakistani government and have control over our Gurdwaras and they can have control over their mosques. We will negotiate with Pakistani government to give us the control over Sikh Gurdwaras. Committees will be established to manage these Gurdwaras. Monthly reports will be submitted to the officials (not necessarily to the federal government). The money of the Gurdwaras will be spent in managing the Gurdwaras, Sikh schools, parchaar, helping the poor and needy.


There is no constitution?

Yes, there is but people just never search for it. Khalistan will be totally based on the principles of Sikhi. Gurbani is the constitution. There is not and can never be a better constitution than Gurbani. Guru Ji wrote this constitution more than 400 years ago. But look at the reality. Constitution of the USA was written ten years after thirteen colonies gained independence. Constitution of India was written three years after it gained independence. If these countries can write their constitution after independence then why can't we? No country is perfect. Every country has loopholes in its laws and policies so expecting flawless plans and policies from Khalistanis is not realistic. Laws can be changed. India has amended its constitution many times. So, do not expect a perfect constitution and policies from Khalistan.

We should free it peacefully?

Guru Gobind Singh Ji said "Koi Kisi Ko Raaj Na Dehain, Jo Lehain Nij Bal Se Lehain" which means "no one gives one freedom and sovereignty, the only way to gain independence is by through power." So is Guru Ji wrong? No definitely not. Thousands Sikhs were killed because they did not have arms and weapons to defend them from mobs. Had they had weapons they would have protected themselves just like couple of Sikhs protected Sees Ganj Sahib Gurdwara in Delhi from four thousand Hindus by taking up arms. Power is not just war with weapons but also war with the pen, intellect, diplomacy and justice. Sikhs lack these today which is why Sikhs need Khalistan.

Some people say that their families were killed on the name of Khalistan so they don't support it. But they should look at the facts. If there was Khalistan their families would have never gotten killed. Also, their families were killed because they were Sikhs. Five thousand Sikhs didn't support Khalistan when they were killed in the streets. They were killed because they were Sikhs. Indian government just used the name of Khalistan as an excuse but in reality Indian government never liked any Sikh whether he was Khalistani or Indian.

Some people ask What does Khalistan mean for Sikhs in foreign countries? Well, the answer is simple. Khalistan will play a great role in the lives of foreign Sikhs. A strong country will represent them and will preach Sikhi. Foreign countries will understand the true meaning of Kirpan and Sikhs will be allowed to wear Kirpans at all places. Now, Sikhs can't wear Kirpans on airplanes, immigration office, courts and even jails. Governments will never understand the true meaning of Kirpan unless a country represents Sikhi and supports this idea. People think of Sikhi as just a sect because there is no representation of Sikhi in world's politics. Jews thought Christianity was a sect but this changed when Christians took over some countries and they became a separate religion. Khalistan will represent all Sikhs living anywhere in the world. After 9/11 a Sikh was killed in Arizona and many were attacked but the government didn't do much about it. No one even remembers that Sikh now. Khalistan will preach Sikhi and will represent Sikhi and will force the foreign governments to take control and punish the criminals. There will be less discrimination, killing and misunderstanding about Sikhi. In fact, there will be no more misunderstanding and discrimination when there is Khalistan. You will see, Khalistan will be the most powerful country in the world. I can go on but I think you understand what I mean.

Also, I think the Panthic Rehat Maryada should be one before there is Khalistan because Sikhs should be connected to each other spiritually. If we drop our differences and keep our own different Rehat Maryada then we won't become a single family. Even if we assume that after keeping our differences we manage to free Khalistan then which Rehat Maryada will be issued from Akaal Takhat Sahib? Sikhs will end up fighting with each other. Example of the thirteen colonies is a perfect example to look at. The thirteen colonies dropped their difference and defeated British. After they gained independence, they became so weak because there was no central government. They started fighting each other internally to gain more power. So I personally think we should become one first and have one Rehat Maryada. Besides, Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us one Rehat Maryada not many.

According to the book of Bhai Rama Singh "Roop Gobind Ka, Raj Khalse Da, Sikka Sone Da" the Khalsa Raj will come for sure. He was a great person with very high spirituality. He has written many things about Khalistan. I recommend everyone to read it because it explains the true concept of Khalistan. It also explains how Khalistan will be free and how Indian government will be defeated. So if you want to learn the real truth read this book, otherwise you will miss a lot about the concept of Khalistan.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji gave the sacrifice and we became victorious. Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji gave the sacrifice, and we became victorious. Guru Gobind Singh’s entire family gave the sacrifice and we became victorious. Today, our Akal Takhat has chosen to offer itself as a sacrifice, and we shall not lose. We will get our Khalistan.


So get those doubts about Khalistan out of your minds. Khalistan will come. Sikhs will rule Punjab because Punjab belongs to Sikhs and it is their birthright. Finally I want to say Khalistan is needed for some of the following reasons:

A central government that represents Sikhs

All Sikhs of all races need a homeland

It is the duty of all Sikhs to protect Sikhi

To keep Sikhi alive by promoting it in other countries in better ways and offer PhDs of Guru Granth Sahib in Sikh universities

A peaceful life for all Sikhs which Sikhs haven't enjoyed since 1849

Freedom to wear Kirpan at all places

Complete break off from the Hindus and Bipran Ki Reet

No more discrimination, injustice and lies to Sikhs

No more oppression, holocausts and attacks on Golden Temple

No more disappearance of Sikhs in Punjab

No more killing of Sikhs in fake encounters

No more of insults of Sikh women, turban and Sikh principles

No more attacks on Sikh Gurus by Indian government's agents and many more reasons but I hope you understand now.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Khalistan Zindabad

[olive]

oh mah god..... :rolleyes:

[DasJa]

#1)I'm sure you must've looked for even longer essay's, and eventually settled for the biggest one.

#2)it's 2007, start living in it!

[Gimmeck]

Its Fkng history, learn from it and move on.

[Cunard]

When China attacked India from the side of Nepal and Kashmir, coincidentally, Nehru was near Nepal. When he heard the news of war, he forgot all about his peaceful speeches and called for the army. The military didn't arrive there for a few days. There were only 500 Sikhs who fought China and held Chinese army back. Nehru was saved by Sikhs and he came back to Delhi. As soon as he came back he said "How can I entrust power into the hands of the enemies?" Nepal's side was saved but China took over some of Kashmir which is still under their rule.


i remember hearing about this from my dad...the number was bigger than 500, but the first troops to engage the Chinese were the sikh light infantary.

my old man flewduring the sino-indo war and even saw Nehru on the tarmack leaving.....what Nehru said was published in the national papers and drew outcrys from Indians in general and specifically the army....a leader shouldnt be venting personal views during a war no matter what they are or how wrong or right they are.

its was under nehrus orders as well that the army was told not to bring the bodies of the dead sikh soliders home....most were left in the mountains lying where they fell....dad was saying that it nearly made him cry seeing solidiers lying in the snow with there hair spread out and just rotting in the sun

perhaps the congress of yesterday is not the same one of today...but elements of such mentality that Nehru had still exist in the party

[Cunard]

DOT DOT DOT

at least somone agreed :p

[proud pun]

Thing i don't agree with sant jarnail bhindranwale is that he should of never brought weapions into the harmandar sahib and should of never let his ego get to him and start a fight with thousands of inocent bystandards in the cross fire. Harmandar sahib is a place of peace and prayer not politics were you arm the place with weapions.

[proud pun]

But i hope indira gandhi had a painfull death and ks brar dies a slow painfull death that cowardly trader. How the hell can he call himself a sikh and lead the attack on the harmandar sahib and worste of all when i watch documantry's about operation bluestar you see sikh soilders helping clean up the blood from the ground.

[Bengal!z]

:roflbow:

whats with the essays on this thread.

[Bengal!z]

But i hope indira gandhi had a painfull death and ks brar dies a slow painfull death that cowardly trader. How the hell can he call himself a sikh and lead the attack on the harmandar sahib and worste of all when i watch documantry's about operation bluestar you see sikh soilders helping clean up the blood from the ground.

this idiot signed up jus to stirr shit no doubt. feeling a little insecure about who u are..so u start posting about how good u are cos your sikh.
reality check, sikhs being great doesnt mean youre great u internet nerd. go and get yourself an identity and the basis for some self pride.

[proud pun]

groups like RSS need to be taken out and the guys from congress in the 84 riots are brougt to justice. But it can be easily done. If sikhs were passionate about these issues.

[proud pun]

What it comes down to is, sikhs make up 1.8% of the population and the bhamins in the indian government thought sikhs are such a big minority no one will even notice that they exsist little did they know sikhs though in small numbers would make such a big impact, they had become the richest ppl in india, at one point in the 50s and 60's the sikhs were the most respected people in india and known as the bravest people in india many hindus in india looked at sikhs as protectors of india, this led to jealousy among bhamin in government and they started putting up brick walls and attacking sikhs out of jealousy because in 1947 they believed india belonged to the bhamins and were jealous and scared of the sikhs and their success. So this led them to start putting up brick walls to stop sikhs from prospering and from being very well respected their goal was to destroy the sikh image so they could have the respect the sikhs had, they wanted to destroy sikhs economically so the bhamins could be the wealthiest in india at the end of the day the bhamins in government in india felt inferior to sikhs which led to all this, and after all the brick walls put up against sikhs and all the attacks on sikhs the sikhs make up the majority of the top rankings of the indian army showing they are the strongest in india and the bravest yes make up less then 2% of the indian population and also on top of that make up 10% of the indian military showing they are indeed the bravest in india. The sikhs are still the richest even though the indian government tried destroying and pushing back the sikh community.

Now this was the bhamins in congress who tried doing this now the new threat are the rss they are a small minority of hindus who also feel inferior to sikhs so now they try saying sikhs are hindus to stop this feeling of feeling inferior to sikhs. Heck the rss is scared of all minority's in india including sikhs and muslims and christians and their our more hindu terrorist groups then just rss who all contain this fear but make up small percentage of the hindu population.

[m0narch]

*edit

oh nothing.

[bobby124]

sikhs did sccare the congress party and they scare rss groups i guess they feel inferior to sikhs but yea found this neat article about how sikhs keep rising to the top in india and with walls always being put up against sikhs some how sikhs always rise to the top.


http://www.nriinternet.com/NRIsikhs/News_2004/3_120504_SIKH_Raj.htm


The period of nightmare is over’
Looks like it’s Sardar season

Calcutta, Dec.05, 2004
The Telegraph


Looks like it’s Sardar season. In the handling of the nation and its economy — and now with the appointment of its army chief — the Sikh community is enjoying its place in the sun. Avijit Ghosh reports


At the top: (Clockwise from top left) Khushwant Singh (pic: Rajesh Kumar); J.J. Singh; Manmohan Singh; Montek Singh Ahluwalia


Bitter memories are like festering sores. But sometimes, the slate is wiped clean: the old order is altered, the forbidden becomes the preferred and hope comes calling in renewed vigour.

Last week, when Lt Gen. Joginder Jaswant Singh was named the new army chief, the first Sikh to hold the position in India’s 57 years of Independence, the effect on the community was similar. Many Sikhs nursed an emotional grievance that the turban was discriminated against when it came to the army’s top job.

But the new turn of events has changed all that. As senior Akali leader Kanwaljit Singh puts it, “The development carries the message that the suspicion on the loyalty of the Sikh community towards the nation since 1984 has finally been demolished.”

This is the Sardar’s season. Be it governing the nation, handling its economy or protecting its frontiers — the community is enjoying its finest moment in two decades. So what if he has no political base, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is a Sikh. So is Montek Singh Ahluwalia, the deputy chairman of the Planning Commission. And when J.J. Singh becomes India’s army chief early next year, the triangle will be complete. Sitting on his favourite chair in his Sujan Singh Park residence, writer Khushwant Singh smiles and says, “It’s a sea change. I think the period of nightmare is over.”

Twenty years ago, the Sikhs were an alienated people. Punjab was ravaged by militant killings and army bullets. But as the army’s attempt to rid the Golden Temple of militants led to the killing of thousands, extremism gathered deeper roots. On October 31, 1984, when Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her Sikh bodyguards, thousands of Sikhs were massacred. Says the 90-year-old writer, “It was not spontaneous but organised. It took place only in the Congress-governed states. Then the sense of alienation became acute.”

Slowly over the years, peace has returned to Punjab. And the 20-million-strong community spread in all corners of India is now making a return journey to the mainstream. The signs are there for everyone to see. Hindi cinema, that unfailing barometer of the popular pulse, shows a distinct approval of the Sikh ways. Who would have imagined a passionate Sardar lover — beard, turban and all — in a Hindi film? But Sunny Deol — in the superhit Gadar of 2001 — caught the change in the air.

Over 10 per cent of the dialogues in this year’s biggest Bollywood hit, Veer Zaara, is in Punjabi with Amitabh Bachchan playing a Sikh character. And, though Daler Mehndi doesn’t sell a million albums anymore, Bhangra pop continues to thrive. Rabbi is the new bearded hot thing in Sufi-pop. “The turban,” says satirist Jaspal Bhatti, “has gained both acceptance and approval like never before.”

The transition was tough. The feeling of alienation had only increased in the post-1984 years. Many poor and helpless Sikhs were often picked up by the lawmen for questioning. “Whenever there was a Delhi blast, the police used to harass us. The logic seemed to be: since these guys survived the riots, they must be working on revenge,” says riot victim Surjit Singh.

Even in 1987, a Sikh was often looked at with suspicion. Playwright Gursharan Singh recalls fellow passengers discussing his bag during a train journey from Delhi to Lucknow. “Is he carrying bombs, they were wondering aloud,” he recalls.

A community’s return to the mainstream — the ebbing away of alienation — is not so much an event as a process. But lawyer H.S. Phoolka, who is still fighting the cases of 1984 riot victims, believes that the tide started turning in the early Nineties. “For the first time, during V.P. Singh’s tenure as Prime Minister, the government admitted to wrongs which needed to be rectified. Even during Chandrashekhar’s brief regime some cases were reopened,” he says. These were the first hesitant beginnings in a long quest for justice which continues even today.

But Kanwaljit, who has also served as Punjab’s finance minister, believes that the change came about with the emergence of coalition politics and by reverting the focus of policy-making to the region; thereby giving it its due importance.

A minority community often looks out for signals and messages which underscore a government’s intent towards it and which make or break its collective perceptions. To a greater or lesser degree, depending on their own personal experiences, most Sikhs are thrilled with the recent developments.

And the feeling holds good even for the NRI Sikh, many of whom migrated during the peak of Punjab militancy and who continue to be vocal critics of the Indian state. During a visit to the US last July after Manmohan Singh became Prime Minister, Gursharan Singh was surprised at the change of tenor in most Sikh newspapers published there.

“Their usual tone is that the Sikhs are having a bad time in India. There was a change in that trend this time. Now with J.J. Singh all set to be the army chief, it is likely to get more positive,” he says.

But Patwant Singh, author of the seminal work, The Sikhs, believes that wounds cannot heal until the guilty are punished. He has a direct query: “Why has nobody been convicted so far?”

It is a question many riot victims are asking as well. For men like Surjit Singh, who lost 13 family members, forgetting is impossible. For him, as for those who have been through the worst of the killings, little has changed.

Yet, undeniably, for most Sikhs the past few months have rung in hope and promise. Having the Prime Minister and the Chief of Army Staff from their own community has filled them with a sense of community pride and given them the feeling of being an integral part of the Indian mainstream. As literateur Ajeet Cour says, “History is full of such wounds. Life demands that one reconciles. It is important to forgive, even if one cannot forget. And move on.”

And those left out...

Bereft: Women who lost their families in the 1984 anti-Sikh riots; lawyer H.S. Phoolka; Photos: Prem Singh
The boys of Garhi, a resettlement colony for the 1984 riot victims in south Delhi, call themselves free. Free is their word for being unemployed. Those who were barely four years old or less — a couple even in their mother’s womb — when their grandfathers, fathers and uncles were slaughtered have grown up to be tall, gawky men.

Most of them dropped out of school early and grew up playing in the bylanes of these humblest of DDA flats their mothers received after spending months in the relief camps. But you can’t blame the mothers for their lack of education. Before their lives changed so dramatically following the anti-Sikh riots, they were homemakers for mechanical engineers, ex-armymen and shopkeepers.

Suddenly, with every grown-up man in the family dead, they had to go out on work even though the job wasn’t much to be pleased about. They worked, and still do, as errand women, dais, gardeners and cleaners. Any job that keeps the home fires burning. At daytime on weekdays, you will not find any middle-aged woman in the colony.

Young Jagjit Singh knows how he grew up. “I grew up standing in the queue for water,” he says. The C-block, where these victims live, has an acute water problem. Pots and pails lie in dozens outside every flat; everyone queues up when the water-tanker comes. Like him, his 24-year-old friend, Gurpreet — with a Salman Tere Naam Khan hairstyle — never finished school. A few months ago, he bought a second-hand Maruti van on loan. But the boys from the bordering mohalla keep breaking its glass. He doesn’t know much about J.J. Singh, all set to become the first Sikh army chief. But he knows that when there is a fight, sometimes those boys taunt him with the question, Bhool gaye kya?

The widows of Garhi are not eagerly waiting for justice, though each one will welcome it with open arms. They just want to get out of this endless cycle of misery that circumstance has thrust on them. “We lost our men,” says Bakshish Kaur, “but today the government should be thinking about our kids”.

One of the boys points out the irony of their existence. “Sometimes they make fun of us and say, you have a Prime Minister but you still have to stand in queue for water,” he

[bobby124]

in that article when it talks about how ppl still take cheap shots at sikhs its funny that they have to cowardly gang up on sikhs to do it, but then again i guess these ppl must feel inferior to sikhs and feel ashamed when comparing their own history to the history of the sikhs and should clearly know they should respect sikhs because if it wasn't for the sikhs india's ass would of belonged to pakistan,every time india about to get its ass kicked the sikhs have to save their asses, and its sad that sikhs who make under 2% of the indian population had to provide majority of the freedom fighters against the british.

[jumpn jza]

all i know is that the bombings in delhi which were blamed on sikh militants were actually carried out by the indian government to provide a pretext for operation blue star...

Yo Cunard...can u comment on this??

[sexxichic2envy]

I demand reparations. :mad:

[darichyabitch]

We sikhs are the minority in india, and like most minorities we have been targeted since the creation of our religion. Even though we are a minority, no1 whom has ever attacked us has ever been successful in destroying our religion. sikh soldiers are formiddable. infact when the british army invaded and took over all of india, punjab was the last state to be taken, and this was only after the death of maharaja ranjit singh. And the british army was so impressed by the sikh soldier saints that they made a whole regiment of sikhs.

anyways regarding the rss and 1984. sikhs have never really been happy since the partition in 1947 because we werent given khalistan like we were promised. the muslims essentially got pakistan, and the hindus got hindustan, but sikhs got nothing. since then there was a great movement for khalistan.

The 1984 attack on harminder sahib was done because they feared that sant jarnail singh brindanwale might actually succeed in making a sikh holyland in punjab. The government went in with tanks, heavy machine guns to the golden temple and killed thousands of pilgrams whom were attending celebrations for guru arjan martyrdom. however they did succeed in killing brindanwale. (well some wud say they didnt) since then i think most sikhs have accepted khalistan is never going to happen.

Regarding RSS. Many argue that the primarily hindu government feared that sikhisms very appealing and logical principles of equality, rejection of caste system/pilgramages/fasts/idol worship would cause it as a religion to spread throughout india and become the majority.

So the hindu goverment created organisations such as RSS and funded/supported sects such as the nirankaris to prevent this from happening.

So has india screwed us sikhs. i think it has. but i also think that if we as sikhs wish to get khalistan then we must learn to not argue amongst ourselves and be pure khalsa like guru gobind singh ji hoped.


No fuck that.

[darichyabitch]

im sikh. im tired of all of us complaining about everything that is going wrong and that people are against us. its fucking old. the whole '78 thing that happened in amritsar is a fucking lie, we sikhs were lied too and we believe something that really didnt happen. We werent protesting we started the riots..

[Curz786]

No wonder Sikhs are crying for Khalistan hmm..

[jumpn jza]

I demand reparations. :mad:

ummm....not when punjab is the wealthiest place in india...i mean srsly....u guys have a temple made of gold...how modest of you ppl...

jks...victims families should get something for the shit that happened...

[bobby124]

Punjab is the best state in india.

[DasJa]

I demand reparations. :mad:
40 acres n a donkey?

[jat_jatt_sardar]

Thing i don't agree with sant jarnail bhindranwale is that he should of never brought weapions into the harmandar sahib and should of never let his ego get to him and start a fight with thousands of inocent bystandards in the cross fire. Harmandar sahib is a place of peace and prayer not politics were you arm the place with weapions.

sikhs supposed to carry weapons at all times. We even put weapons in front of Guru Granth Sahib Ji in respect. True sikh of Guru Gobind Singh alwauys has weapons. Seriously what are you on?