12th Imam...

[snoop786]

Other than Shias Muslims who here believe in 12th Imam

[snoop786]

12th IMAM ...

[snoop786]

12th Iman is he reali coming

[Spiky]

y0 momma son. She is

[pachaas Paisa]

what are imams? do they look funny with long beards?

[khanbaba_]

There is no such thing as 12th Imam, just a myth.

[nayeemx33]

Shut Up
I hope you get lamed :neutral:

[PakiRican]

for how many years has the 12th imam been "around"

[snoop786]

There is no such thing as 12th Imam, just a myth.
well Shia muslims believe in 12th Imam

[khanbaba_]

for how many years has the 12th imam been "around"
He was born 1250 years ago and still hiding :rolleyes:

[pachaas Paisa]

I have heard that shia muslims beat the shit out of themselves when its that time of the month. Why? Are they crazy?

[PakiRican]

He was born 1250 years ago and still hiding :rolleyes:
are you sure its 1250?
do i have to go and ask my daadi?

[snoop786]

what are imams? do they look funny with long beards?
Niga at least they are better than your homo catholic priest

[PakiRican]

I have heard that shia muslims beat the shit out of themselves when its that time of the month. Why? Are they crazy?
you need new sources

[PakiRican]

Niga at least they are better than your homo catholic priest
dont do too much
by attacking other religions

btw are you shia?

[pachaas Paisa]

Niga at least they are better than your homo catholic priest

they are homo, I am neither christian or catholic...LOLZ NICE TRY!

[pachaas Paisa]

dont do too much
by attacking other religions

btw are you shia?

of course he has to be, he's too tempered... LOLZ

[Ash_s2002]

There is no such thing as 12th Imam, just a myth.
But you dudes still believe in the Mahdi dont you?

[Spiky]

dont do too much
by attacking other religions

btw are you shia?


Have u ever read his other comments?

[pachaas Paisa]

you need new sources

so they used to and now they stopped?

[snoop786]

I have heard that shia muslims beat the shit out of themselves when its that time of the month. Why? Are they crazy?
Only Paki Shias would do that not the Persians Shias

[PakiRican]

of course he has to be, he's too tempered... LOLZ
"lolz" reminds me of fobs
and being tempered has nothing to do with being shia

[khanbaba_]

are you sure its 1250?
do i have to go and ask my daadi?
Sure go ahead, ask anyone.

[PakiRican]

Only Paki Shias would do that not the Persians Shias
wtf are you saying dummy

[PakiRican]

Have u ever read his other comments?
nope never

[pachaas Paisa]

Only Paki Shias would do that not the Persians Shias

I heard persians dont even take the religion seriously, they must be normal.

[snoop786]

dont do too much
by attacking other religions

btw are you shia?

nah i am not Shia

[PakiRican]

so they used to and now they stopped?
no.

[Ash_s2002]

Only Paki Shias would do that not the Persians Shias
not true

[khanbaba_]

But you dudes still believe in the Mahdi dont you?
But our Mahdi will be born before Qiyamat, he is not the same person you guys say was born 1250 years ago and is in a cave now.

[Ash_s2002]

I heard persians dont even take the religion seriously, they must be normal.
dude Iran is the centre of Shiaism right now

[pachaas Paisa]

no.

so whats the new information miss.source?

[Ash_s2002]

But our Mahdi will be born before Qiyamat, he is not the same person you guys say was born 1250 years ago and is in a cave now.
:neutral: ..fair enuff

[PakiRican]

dude Iran is the centre of Shiaism right now
true

[PakiRican]

so whats the new information miss.source?
im not your source
im just telling you that u need new ones

[Spiky]

so Shiaism != Sunnism?

[Ash_s2002]

so Shiaism != Sunnism?
nopes

[snoop786]

Shias , Sunni we all are muslim period..

[Ash_s2002]

Shias , Sunni we all are muslim period..
whooo good answer

[Spiky]

Shias , Sunni we all are muslim period..


But Ismailis are not Muslims. Khanbaba said.

[snoop786]

But Ismailis are not Muslims. Khanbaba said.
yap true to that Ismalilis is kind of out of control they worship Aga Khan..

[PakiRican]

Shias , Sunni we all are muslim period..
this is true
now if sunnis would have listened to phrophet and followed his words about ali being his successor
we wouldnt have this problem

[Chucky_666]

Niga at least they are better than your homo catholic priest
Aren't you the same one who's a FOB? So why try targeting at other religions?

Idiot.

[Chucky_666]

whooo good answer
Yeah.. He's 1 for 100. Go Snoop! :rolleyes:

[snoop786]

this is true
now if sunnis would have listened to phrophet and followed his words about ali being his successor
we wouldnt have this problem
There is no such thing as Sunni and Shia when Islam came..

[PakiRican]

There is no such thing as Sunni and Shia when Islam came..
and it wouldnt have been created if a certain group would have listened to prophet

[khanbaba_]

this is true
now if sunnis would have listened to phrophet and followed his words about ali being his successor
we wouldnt have this problem
Nope, there was no problem untill 30 years after the death of Prophet s.a.w.Prophet s.a.w appointed Hazrat Abu Bakar to lead the Mulims during his last few days. Its also writtin in your books. Hazrat ALi was close to the first three Calips and he took oath at their hands. He never claimed his right to Caliph-hood, even after the death of Hazrat Usman r,a, people had to beg him to become a Caliph. It says in Al-kafi that the first person to say that Hazrat Ali r.a had the right to Caliph-hood was Abdullah Ibn saba form Yemen.

[nayeemx33]

this is true
now if sunnis would have listened to phrophet and followed his words about ali being his successor
we wouldnt have this problem

He never said that :neutral:

[khanbaba_]

and it wouldnt have been created if a certain group would have listened to prophet
Everyone listened to Prophet s.a.w. Not even 1 Sahabai said anything else.

[PakiRican]

Nope, there was no problem untill 30 years after the death of Prophet s.a.w.Prophet s.a.w appointed Hazrat Abu Bakar to lead the Mulims during his last few days. Its also writtin in your books. Hazrat ALi was close to the first three Calips and he took oath at their hands. He never claimed his right to Caliph-hood, even after the death of Hazrat Usman r,a, people had to beg him to become a Caliph. It says in Al-kafi that the first person to say that Hazrat Ali r.a had the right to Caliph-hood was Abdullah Ibn saba form Yemen.
BLAH im sticking to what i said
this is what i learned in sunday school so :hand:
and my daadi said its true and she is a know it all :hand:

[PakiRican]

He never said that :neutral:
yes he did

[Spiky]

so let me get this straight....Sunnis and shias = Muslims, but they still dont agree on stuff....Some one is not on the right path.....some is going to hell among those two obviously.

But poor Ismailis as a whole are a lost cause right from the start.

Hmm...who else is there in Muslims?

[khanbaba_]

BLAH im sticking to what i said
this is what i learned in sunday school so :hand:
and my daadi said its true and she is a know it all :hand:
Lol ok You can belive what you want. But that wont change the facts.

[PakiRican]

Lol ok You can belive what you want. But that wont change the facts.
im not letting an extremist like you
who types long and meanigless posts change my opinions

[khanbaba_]

so let me get this straight....Sunnis and shias = Muslims, but they still dont agree on stuff....Some one is not on the right path.....some is going to hell among those two obviously.

But poor Ismailis as a whole are a lost cause right from the start.

Hmm...who else is there in Muslims?
Well Islamils are a sect of Shias, Shias have many sects like Twelvers, Zaidias and Ismailis.

[snoop786]

and it wouldnt have been created if a certain group would have listened to prophet
yap ..but sects like Ismailis , Bhaai etc... went out of Islam

[khanbaba_]

im not letting an extremist like you
who types long and meanigless posts change my opinions
Nothings gona get in your empty brain.

[Ash_s2002]

so let me get this straight....Sunnis and shias = Muslims, but they still dont agree on stuff....Some one is not on the right path.....some is going to hell among those two obviously.

But poor Ismailis as a whole are a lost cause right from the start.

Hmm...who else is there in Muslims?
Its like the hindus basically just castes mostly.....who start changing the message for their purposes.....but basically there are only two proper muslims who are shias or sunnis...because they have been around from the begining anything else is an afterthought

[PakiRican]

yap ..but sects like Ismailis , Bhaai etc... went out of Islam
i dont know about those sects so i cant say anything about them

[PakiRican]

Nothings gona get in your empty brain.
my brain is filled with kheer
what do u know

[Ash_s2002]

Well Islamils are a sect of Shias, Shias have many sects like Twelvers, Zaidias and Ismailis.
they are not proper shias because their message is not the same

[khanbaba_]

they are not proper shias because their message is not the same
They were before you guys, twelvers came at the end. lolz

[Ash_s2002]

They were before you guys, twelvers came at the end. lolz
nopes their message is wrong because an imam invites people to ask them questions to proclaim his imamat..this is not the case for ismailis because their imam never proclaimed he was the imam ever...

[PakiRican]

lol at khanbaba quoting from kr-hcy.com
it is a sipah sahaba website

[khanbaba_]

nopes their message is wrong because an imam invites people to ask them questions to proclaim his imamat..this is not the case for ismailis because their imam never proclaimed he was the imam ever...
None of the Imams ever said they are Imams, not even one.

[Ash_s2002]

None of the Imams ever said they are Imams, not even one.
all of them did...

[PakiRican]

None of the Imams ever said they are Imams, not even one.
u seem to know them personally

[khanbaba_]

lol at khanbaba quoting from kr-hcy.com
it is a sipah sahaba website
I didnt quote from anywhere, its better if you stay quiet, I have done my study. Instead of saying I quoted from here and there, why dont you refute me with proofs.

[PakiRican]

I didnt quote from anywhere, its better if you stay quiet, I have done my study. Instead of saying I quoted from here and there, why dont you refute me with proofs.
u get ur posts from that website
its obvious

[khanbaba_]

all of them did...
Nope they didnt, and first the Shias had the rule that son of present Imam wil beomce the next Imam, then why was Hazrat Hussain made Imam and not the sons of Hazrat Hassan r.a. Why because he took bayat at the hands of Hazrat Ameer Muawiya. You guys broke your rules so many times on the way. Thats why Zaidis and Ismailis broke away from you guys.

[crystalgems2]

12th Imam...
i saw him few hours ago in London tube waiting 4the train :D

[snoop786]

they are not proper shias because their message is not the same
I am glad yall Shias don't accept them coz to me they went out of Islam. I went to Ismalils Jamat kharaz. It was like Hindu temple

[khanbaba_]

u get ur posts from that website
its obvious
Stop repeationg your self and If you dont have anything to say, then stay out of it.

[PakiRican]

i saw him few hours ago in London tube waiting 4the train :D
i believe you
i heard he comes to people sometimes

[Ash_s2002]

I didnt quote from anywhere, its better if you stay quiet, I have done my study. Instead of saying I quoted from here and there, why dont you refute me with proofs.
dude I have read the arguements posted on that site and their words are exactly the same as urs

[PakiRican]

dude I have read the arguements posted on that site and their words are exactly the same as urs
lmao BUSTED

[khanbaba_]

dude I have read the arguements posted on that site and their words are exactly the same as urs
Ok if you say so, now thats all you people have to say? I have made reference to your own books, so why not refute it.

[PakiRican]

I am glad yall Shias don't accept them coz to me they went out of Islam. I went to a Ismalils Jamat kharaz. It was like Hindu temple
lol how?

[PakiRican]

Ok if you say so, now thats all you people have to say? I have made reference to your own books, so why not refute it.
u mean that website made references

[snoop786]

lol how?
They haf pics of Aga Khan and flowers everywhere lol

[khanbaba_]

u mean that website made references
I have your books with me, books like Al kafi, and books by Khomeni. There are Shia websites I go to, you can find this also there. Does it matter where I get my info from as long as its authentic? Good way to change the topic lol

[khanbaba_]

They haf pics of Aga Khan and flowers everywhere lol
Twelvers have pics of Hazrat Ali in their Imam baras and houses.

[PakiRican]

They haf pics of Aga Khan and flowers everywhere lol
realy

[Ash_s2002]

Nope they didnt, and first the Shias had the rule that son of present Imam wil beomce the next Imam, then why was Hazrat Hussain made Imam and not the sons of Hazrat Hassan r.a. Why because he took bayat at the hands of Hazrat Ameer Muawiya. You guys broke your rules so many times on the way. Thats why Zaidis and Ismailis broke away from you guys.
nopes not true.....it doesnt have to be the son....it has to be someone who has enough knowledge who is the most pious who can answer for everything...so basically if you are trying to say the hazrat Qasim son of imam hassan should have lead the shias then u are wrong..it doesnt have to be son..someone from the blood family of ali and fatima who are pure in everything more than the others are imam

[PakiRican]

that makes me angry
this is agaisnt islam
they shouldnt have pics

[Ash_s2002]

Twelvers have pics of Hazrat Ali in their Imam baras and houses.
not true.....they are just artistics representations...and we dont have them in our mosques some people might have them in their house...but we dont pray to them

[crystalgems2]

i believe you, i heard he comes to people sometimes
he was waiting 4the train but sure not 4the ppl.......
(anyway I didn't expect that response :D )

[khanbaba_]

nopes not true.....it doesnt have to be the son....it has to be someone who has enough knowledge who is the most pious who can answer for everything...so basically if you are trying to say the hazrat Qasim son of imam hassan should have lead the shias then u are wrong..it doesnt have to be son..someone from the blood family of ali and fatima who are pure in everything more than the others are imam
Look now you would say that, but that was not the rule at that time. Shias chagned that rule becuse some of your Imams died without off-springs. So they had to change the rules. Now according to the brother of 11th Imam, he died with out any off springs. So Shias came up with this thing that 12th Imam when he was a kid ran away to a cave. This way Shias wont have to worry about all this hassle. Solve the problem all at once. lol

[khanbaba_]

not true.....they are just artistics representations...and we dont have them in our mosques some people might have them in their house...but we dont pray to them
I know so many Shias they have them, even some of you Imam Baras have it. And those pics are sold openly in Pakistan.

[PakiRican]

Look now you would say that, but that was not the rule at that time. Shias chagned that rule becuse some of your Imams died without off-springs. So they had to change the rules. Now according to the brother of 11th Imam, he died with out any off springs. So Shias came up with this thing that 12th Imam when he was a kid ran away to a cave. This way Shias wont have to worry about all this hassle. Solve the problem all at once. lol
ran away to a cave as a kid? lol
wtf wtf

[khanbaba_]

ran away to a cave as a kid? lol
wtf wtf
Yes he was 5 years old, ask ash-2002.

[PakiRican]

I know so many Shias they have them, even some of you Imam Baras have it. And those pics are sold openly in Pakistan.
yes some people have them in their home
but imam baras? i dont think so

and we dont put their pics up in the front and worship it

[PakiRican]

Yes he was 5 years old, ask ash-2002.
why ask him when mr know it all says so

[khanbaba_]

yes some people have them in their home
but imam baras? i dont think so

and we dont put their pics up in the front and worship it
What is saying *ya Ali madad*?Every Shias I have met, he says it. Its written in your Imam Baras that I have checked.

[Ash_s2002]

Look now you would say that, but that was not the rule at that time. Shias chagned that rule becuse some of your Imams died without off-springs. So they had to change the rules. Now according to the brother of 11th Imam, he died with out any off springs. So Shias came up with this thing that 12th Imam when he was a kid ran away to a cave. This way Shias wont have to worry about all this hassle. Solve the problem all at once. lol
nopes we didnt make it that he ran away...get your facts right we say that he stayed with close followers for a while....then after he said his time begin ghaybat had begun and thats when he left..facts get them right...

[PakiRican]

What is saying *ya Ali madad*?Every Shias I have met, he says it. Its written in your Imam Baras that I have checked.
its jsut asking for help
madad=help
its not saying anything like oh ali u are god :no:

[khanbaba_]

why ask him when mr know it all says so
You dont know your own religion, he was 5 when he ran to a cave in Iraq called *man ra*. This is everything written in your authentic books. I am not making it up.

[Ash_s2002]

I know so many Shias they have them, even some of you Imam Baras have it. And those pics are sold openly in Pakistan.
well they would be sold openly there are idiots amongst shia as there amongst sunni people without knowledge trying to show off their religious by buying posters...bullshit weather they are shia or sunni

[khanbaba_]

its jsut asking for help
madad=help
its not saying anything like oh ali u are god :no:
Exactly, this is shirk, now you have admitted. Only you can ask Allah for help.

[fragiledoll]

There is no such thing as 12th Imam, just a myth.

:no: if you will believe it is a myth then you need to go to some islamic institute and learn furthrer instead of guessing something like this.

[PakiRican]

shia and suni are split on the quote " I am leaving behind my quran and sunnah"
what do you think of this khanbaba

[khanbaba_]

nopes we didnt make it that he ran away...get your facts right we say that he stayed with close followers for a while....then after he said his time begin ghaybat had begun and thats when he left..facts get them right...
Nope he was 5 when he ran away to a cave, and it says he went alone, no one was with him. It says in your authentic books that he took the *real Quran* with him. He took many other things with him.

[PakiRican]

Exactly, this is shirk, now you have admitted. Only you can ask Allah for help.
you can ask anyone for help
you ask only allah for forgivness

[Ash_s2002]

Exactly, this is shirk, now you have admitted. Only you can ask Allah for help.
we are asking allah for help.....quote from prophet...you may not believe it...alll stems from the words of the prophets " I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate".....

[Cunard]

this whole idea of the 12th imam showing up is another reason why Iran shouldnt be allowed to have nukes

[khanbaba_]

:no: if you will believe it is a myth then you need to go to some islamic institute and learn furthrer instead of guessing something like this.
Thanks for your advice.

[PakiRican]

we are asking allah for help.....quote from prophet...you may not believe it...alll stems from the words of the prophets " I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate".....
i was just about to bust out that quote

[khanbaba_]

this whole idea of the 12th imam showing up is another reason why Iran shouldnt be allowed to have nukes
You know thats how Khomeni came into power, he used this excuse of 12th Imam and people rallied behind him. Same thing for current president.

[Ash_s2002]

Nope he was 5 when he ran away to a cave, and it says he went alone, no one was with him. It says in your authentic books that he took the *real Quran* with him. He took many other things with him.
dude one fact straight I am the shia here you cant claim to know more about me than my own beliefs...you know more about sunni beliefs for which I congratulate you ...there were two periods of ghaybet e sughra and ghaybet e kubra...in english one meaning small and the other meaning large...during the smaller he satyed in touch with his followers writing them letters and getting his closest followers to deliver messages...after this he disappeard so he was not 5 when he ran off to a cave..

[khanbaba_]

we are asking allah for help.....quote from prophet...you may not believe it...alll stems from the words of the prophets " I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate".....
Lol what does knowledge have to do with asking some one who is not present. That is clearly shirk. Hazrat Ali is laying in his grave and he cant hear you.

[fragiledoll]

What is saying *ya Ali madad*?Every Shias I have met, he says it. Its written in your Imam Baras that I have checked.

Every Shia says Ya Ali Madad.. you don't know what it does if only you have faith in it.. it is similar to saying O rasulullah Guide me. it is just an expression of Love towards The beloved of the Holy Prophet... you know our Hol Prophet (saw) never did anything without Ali (a.s) being near him so imagine if the Prophet loved Ali soooo much then why not we?

[Cunard]

You know thats how Khomeni came into power, he used this excuse of 12th Imam and people rallied behind him. Same thing for current president.

its a great way into scaring people shitless and making them follow your every whim

[Ash_s2002]

You know thats how Khomeni came into power, he used this excuse of 12th Imam and people rallied behind him. Same thing for current president.
dude it was a people revolution they were unhappy with the shah they liked the way imama khomeni preached and his ideas for a nislamic republic thats why they followed...nothing to do with the 12th imam

[PakiRican]

Lol what does knowledge have to do with asking some one who is not present. That is clearly shirk. Hazrat Ali is laying in his grave and he cant hear you.
the quote means that only ali can possibly have knowledge similar to the prophet
they spent so much time together

[crystalgems2]

.........
khanbaba, in reality shia worshiping not compatible with sunni....then why sunnis allowed them to mecca?

[khanbaba_]

its a great way into scaring people shitless and making them follow your every whim
Yup but he doesnt exist and he will never come out. But people will blindly follow everything.

[Ash_s2002]

Lol what does knowledge have to do with asking some one who is not present. That is clearly shirk. Hazrat Ali is laying in his grave and he cant hear you.
so when we ask the prophet for help we are commiting shirk?..

[khanbaba_]

dude it was a people revolution they were unhappy with the shah they liked the way imama khomeni preached and his ideas for a nislamic republic thats why they followed...nothing to do with the 12th imam
It did, actually Khomeni said I am the deputy of the 12th Imam and he has sent me to pave the way for him. This is the reason every Shia was behind him. Now thats why if you read the Kalima of Shias in Iran, they have added his name in the Kalima, it says *Khomeni roohullah*

[Ash_s2002]

khanbaba, in reality shia worshiping not compatible with sunni....then why sunnis allowed them to mecca?
dude our quran is the same our kalima is the same we pray to the same god the whole ideology splits over the guider of islam after the prophet...someone to explain the teachings of quran...shia and sunnis are both muslims....

[khanbaba_]

so when we ask the prophet for help we are commiting shirk?..
Only you ask Allah for help, he is the all powerfull, all knowing and omni-present.

[khanbaba_]

dude our quran is the same our kalima is the same we pray to the same god the whole ideology splits over the guider of islam after the prophet...someone to explain the teachings of quran...shia and sunnis are both muslims....
You Kalima is not same, stop doing taqiya (holy hypocracy)

[Ash_s2002]

It did, actually Khomeni said I am the deputy of the 12th Imam and he has sent me to pave the way for him. This is the reason every Shia was behind him. Now thats why if you read the Kalima of Shias in Iran, they have added his name in the Kalima, it says *Khomeni roohullah*
for gods sakes dude..i respect ur knowledge and all but when u believe such obvious rubbish..I am peersian and shia we say nothing i mean nothing after La ilaha ilallah muhammed ur rusullulah...nothing get it into ur head...you will now say that we say other stuff but we dont i garuntee you...and khomeni never claimed to be anything other than a scholar and to say so is a lie also

[nayeemx33]

Stop arguing and go pray :neutral:

[khanbaba_]

khanbaba, in reality shia worshiping not compatible with sunni....then why sunnis allowed them to mecca?
There were times they were not allowed, but its all up to the Saudi Government. There are political reason behind it also. Like in 1980 Shias tried to destroy the Kabaa, so they were banned to visit Kaba for few years. hey have this thing called taqiya which is called holy hypocracy, and its great reward for Shias to hide their real beliefs. Thats one reason they go to Kaba.

[Ash_s2002]

You Kalima is not same, stop doing taqiya (holy hypocracy)
and doing taqiya will save my life from getting e-killed...:no: get ur knowledge about taqiyah first

[Spiky]

You Kalima is not same, stop doing taqiya (holy hypocracy)


LOL

[PakiRican]

Only you ask Allah for help, he is the all powerfull, all knowing and omni-present.
shia and suni are split on the quote " I am leaving behind my quran and sunnah"
what do you think of this khanbaba


this time answer it

[fragiledoll]

so let me get this straight....Sunnis and shias = Muslims, but they still dont agree on stuff....Some one is not on the right path.....some is going to hell among those two obviously.

But poor Ismailis as a whole are a lost cause right from the start.

Hmm...who else is there in Muslims?

i heard the Aga Khan is resigning from Imamat and he has announced the Ismailis to start learning reading Quran and praying the namaaz (salaat)
i don;t know how much this is true.

[Ash_s2002]

Only you ask Allah for help, he is the all powerfull, all knowing and omni-present.
we read his name in the kalima you and me and asking the messenger of god for help is shirk...what rubbish dude...:no:

[khanbaba_]

for gods sakes dude..i respect ur knowledge and all but when u believe such obvious rubbish..I am peersian and shia we say nothing i mean nothing after La ilaha ilallah muhammed ur rusullulah...nothing get it into ur head...you will now say that we say other stuff but we dont i garuntee you...and khomeni never claimed to be anything other than a scholar and to say so is a lie also
Only if you had read his books, you would agree with me. He did say with his own mouth, I am the depurty of 12th Imam and he has sent me to pave the way. The current President of Iran is doign the same thing. He is getting people to rally behind him in the name of 12th Imam. Its different thing if you are in denial.

[khanbaba_]

shia and suni are split on the quote " I am leaving behind my quran and sunnah"
what do you think of this khanbaba


this time answer it
What about it? We follow the Sunnah that was passed through Sahabas while you people have no connection with Prophet s.a.w.

[khanbaba_]

we read his name in the kalima you and me and asking the messenger of god for help is shirk...what rubbish dude...:no:
Lolz ok here we go, why are you trying to change the topic. Do you know the difference between asking someone for help who is not present and saying that Muhammad s.a.w is the last Messenger of Allah.

[fragiledoll]

Nope they didnt, and first the Shias had the rule that son of present Imam wil beomce the next Imam, then why was Hazrat Hussain made Imam and not the sons of Hazrat Hassan r.a. Why because he took bayat at the hands of Hazrat Ameer Muawiya. You guys broke your rules so many times on the way. Thats why Zaidis and Ismailis broke away from you guys.


SHIAS never had any RULE that son of present Imam will become the next Imam..

Imamat is chosen by none other the the Almighty Allah (swt) stop telling stuffs you don't know :spank:
I can send you the link to a very good lecture if you want to know more...
Imamat is only chosen by Allah (swt) this is not some election that people choose or the rules to follow.. Everything happens by the Order or the Almighty. I am Shia i know better.

[Ash_s2002]

Only if you had read his books, you would agree with me. He did say with his own mouth, I am the depurty of 12th Imam and he has sent me to pave the way. The current President of Iran is doign the same thing. He is getting people to rally behind him in the name of 12th Imam. Its different thing if you are in denial.
for gods sakes dude..and the sipah sahaba dont say that nowadays that we are deputies of the shaba and all that...cause they do and i know for a fact that khomeni never would...and the current president is the only standing up for himself..and no other islamic country is backinghim..i got nothing agaisnt him apart from his comments about the holocaust which even i say are wrong

[PakiRican]

SHIAS never had any RULE that son of present Imam will become the next Imam..

Imamat is chosen by none other the the Almighty Allah (swt) stop telling stuffs you don't know :spank:
I can send you the link to a very good lecture if you want to know more...
Imamat is only chosen by Allah (swt) this is not some election that people choose or the rules to follow.. Everything happens by the Order or the Almighty. I am Shia i know better.
word

[khanbaba_]

for gods sakes dude..and the sipah sahaba dont say that nowadays that we are deputies of the shaba and all that...cause they do and i know for a fact that khomeni never would...and the current president is the only standing up for himself..and no other islamic country is backinghim..i got nothing agaisnt him apart from his comments about the holocaust which even i say are wrong
I dont know what you just said, you are keep changing the topic. Did I say anything about Sipah e Sahaba? I am telling you the view point of whole Ahl Sunah Wal Jamat.

[crystalgems2]

There were times they were not allowed, but its all up to the Saudi Government. There are political reason behind it also. Like in 1980 Shias tried to destroy the Kabaa, so they were banned to visit Kaba for few years. hey have this thing called taqiya which is called holy hypocracy, and its great reward for Shias to hide their real beliefs. Thats one reason they go to Kaba.

what is taqiya? what beliefs they hide?
i haven't got your conclusion of last sentence "Thats one reason they go to Kaba".
could u through some light on this?

[Ash_s2002]

Lolz ok here we go, why are you trying to change the topic. Do you know the difference between asking someone for help who is not present and saying that Muhammad s.a.w is the last Messenger of Allah.
no dude what i was implaying was the subject of asking ya ali madad will be something u will not agree upon but we ask the prophet for help i was asking you if asking the prophet for help was wrong..thats why i said our kalima is the same

[PakiRican]

I dont know what you just said, you are keep changing the topic. Did I say anything about Sipah e Sahaba? I am telling you the view point of whole Ahl Sunah Wal Jamat.
he didnt change topic
he responded to what u said

[khanbaba_]

SHIAS never had any RULE that son of present Imam will become the next Imam..

Imamat is chosen by none other the the Almighty Allah (swt) stop telling stuffs you don't know :spank:
I can send you the link to a very good lecture if you want to know more...
Imamat is only chosen by Allah (swt) this is not some election that people choose or the rules to follow.. Everything happens by the Order or the Almighty. I am Shia i know better.
Nope only Prophet-hood is chosen by Allah. This is one more of your deviant belief. This is another way you people elevate the status of your Imams next to the Prophets.

[Ash_s2002]

I dont know what you just said, you are keep changing the topic. Did I say anything about Sipah e Sahaba? I am telling you the view point of whole Ahl Sunah Wal Jamat.
well on this topic i garuntee you khomeni did not make followers by claiming to be the deputy of the imam..it was a political revolution and he was the leader the public chose..

[khanbaba_]

no dude what i was implaying was the subject of asking ya ali madad will be something u will not agree upon but we ask the prophet for help i was asking you if asking the prophet for help was wrong..thats why i said our kalima is the same
And I answered you, if you are paying any attention to my posts. How is asking some one for help who is not present there same as saying a statement *Muhammed s.a.w is the last Prophet ? Is this asking him for help?Tell me?

[khanbaba_]

what is taqiya? what beliefs they hide?
i haven't got your conclusion of last sentence "Thats one reason they go to Kaba".
could u through some light on this?
Taqiya is holy hypocracy. In other words if they hide their real beliefs they get reward. According to them all their Imams did taqiya. Khomeni said in one of his books ( I cant remember the name now) that taqiya is 9/10 of
Iman (belief)

[PakiRican]

Only if you had read his books, you would agree with me. He did say with his own mouth, I am the depurty of 12th Imam and he has sent me to pave the way. The current President of Iran is doign the same thing. He is getting people to rally behind him in the name of 12th Imam. Its different thing if you are in denial.
There are clear grounds to show that Abu Huraira was an unreliable man. Your own ulema have confirmed this fact. One of the reasons for his being cursed is that, according to the words of the Prophet, he was an associate of the cursed son of the cursed Abu Sufyan. Abu Huraira was one of the hypocrites. On some occasions in Siffin he offered prayers led by the Commander of the Faithful, Ali. At other times he sat at the dining table of Mu'awiya to eat his fancy food. As reported by Zamakhshari in Rabiu'l-Abrar and Ibn Abi'l-Hadid in the commentary on Nahju'l-Balagha, when Abu Huraira was asked the reason for his double-dealing policy, he said, "Mu'awiya's food is very rich and savory, and prayers behind Ali are preferable." Your own ulema, like Sheikhu'l-Islam Hamwaini in Fara'id, Chapter 37, Khawarizmi in Manaqib, Tibrani in Ausar, Ganji Shafi'i in Kifayatu't-Talib (and a host of others) quote from this same Abu Huraira and others that the Prophet said, "Ali is with the Truth, and the Truth is with Ali." When he left Ali and courted the favor of Mu'awiya, was he not damnable? If one not only keeps silent at seeing the vicious deeds of Mu'awiya, but actually cooperates with him and helps him in order to advance his own worldly position and to fill his belly, is he not to be condemned?

[Ash_s2002]

And I answered you, if you are paying any attention to my posts. How is asking some one for help who is not present there same as saying a statement *Muhammed s.a.w is the last Prophet ? Is this asking him for help?Tell me?
i didnt imply that in the kalima we are asking him for help...i said thatwe both agree on the prophet as u dont agree with imam ali..therefore if we ask the prophet for help(not in the kalima but as in for example Ya muhammed rusuallah madad) would that be shirk?

[fragiledoll]

its a great way into scaring people shitless and making them follow your every whim

someone got scared?

[khanbaba_]

There are clear grounds to show that Abu Huraira was an unreliable man. Your own ulema have confirmed this fact. One of the reasons for his being cursed is that, according to the words of the Prophet, he was an associate of the cursed son of the cursed Abu Sufyan. Abu Huraira was one of the hypocrites. On some occasions in Siffin he offered prayers led by the Commander of the Faithful, Ali. At other times he sat at the dining table of Mu'awiya to eat his fancy food. As reported by Zamakhshari in Rabiu'l-Abrar and Ibn Abi'l-Hadid in the commentary on Nahju'l-Balagha, when Abu Huraira was asked the reason for his double-dealing policy, he said, "Mu'awiya's food is very rich and savory, and prayers behind Ali are preferable." Your own ulema, like Sheikhu'l-Islam Hamwaini in Fara'id, Chapter 37, Khawarizmi in Manaqib, Tibrani in Ausar, Ganji Shafi'i in Kifayatu't-Talib (and a host of others) quote from this same Abu Huraira and others that the Prophet said, "Ali is with the Truth, and the Truth is with Ali." When he left Ali and courted the favor of Mu'awiya, was he not damnable? If one not only keeps silent at seeing the vicious deeds of Mu'awiya, but actually cooperates with him and helps him in order to advance his own worldly position and to fill his belly, is he not to be condemned?

Copy paste and totally irrelevant lolz

[Ash_s2002]

Taqiya is holy hypocracy. In other words if they hide their real beliefs they get reward. According to them all their Imams did taqiya. Khomeni said in one of his books ( I cant remember the name now) that taqiya is 9/10 of
Iman (belief)
only when ur life is in danger....

[khanbaba_]

i didnt imply that in the kalima we are asking him for help...i said thatwe both agree on the prophet as u dont agree with imam ali..therefore if we ask the prophet for help(not in the kalima but as in for example Ya muhammed rusuallah madad) would that be shirk?
Yes I have answered that few times before, only you can ask Allah for help. Not any human being. They are not present here.

[khanbaba_]

only when ur life is in danger....
Thats why its 9/10 of Iman? lolz :rolleyes:

[PakiRican]

Copy paste and totally irrelevant lolz
the man whose quote you base you religion upon was a liar

[Ash_s2002]

Yes I have answered that few times before, only you can ask Allah for help. Not any human being. They are not present here.
we say his name in the kalima to become a muslim yet we cannot ask him for help...another quote u will have heard before " to praise muhammed SAW is to praise allah" but to ask muhammed the last prophet the greatest and last for help is shirk...:no:

[fragiledoll]

Nope, there was no problem untill 30 years after the death of Prophet s.a.w.Prophet s.a.w appointed Hazrat Abu Bakar to lead the Mulims during his last few days. Its also writtin in your books. Hazrat ALi was close to the first three Calips and he took oath at their hands. He never claimed his right to Caliph-hood, even after the death of Hazrat Usman r,a, people had to beg him to become a Caliph. It says in Al-kafi that the first person to say that Hazrat Ali r.a had the right to Caliph-hood was Abdullah Ibn saba form Yemen.

which books


the first person to know that ALI (a.s) is going to be the right Caliph was the Holy Prophet's wife (the one who used to interfere when the Imam and The Prophet were engaged in their talks) i dont remmebr her name but i can find out by tomoro..she came in the room where the Holy Prophet (saw)was sitting and Ali (a.s) was stitching/repairing Prophet's shoes... and asked the prophet who is going to be the Imam? then the Holy Prophet pointed to Imam Ali (a.s)

[Ash_s2002]

Thats why its 9/10 of Iman? lolz :rolleyes:
no its not..dude all the info u have on shiaism is gossip...you know the likes the laymen has for example the shias quran is different fact its not ask crayzee hes sunni he came to my house and we prayed together and he read the tilawat after....all gossip

[crystalgems2]

Taqiya is holy hypocracy. In other words if they hide their real beliefs they get reward. According to them all their Imams did taqiya. Khomeni said in one of his books ( I cant remember the name now) that taqiya is 9/10 of Iman (belief)

u mean to say shia go to kabba to destroy it? if so, why? am confused a bit here!!!!!!!

[PakiRican]

no its not..dude all the info u have on shiaism is gossip...you know the likes the laymen has for example the shias quran is different fact its not ask crayzee hes sunni he came to my house and we prayed together and he read the tilawat after....all gossip
he is living a lie dude

[khanbaba_]

There are clear grounds to show that Abu Huraira was an unreliable man. Your own ulema have confirmed this fact. One of the reasons for his being cursed is that, according to the words of the Prophet, he was an associate of the cursed son of the cursed Abu Sufyan. Abu Huraira was one of the hypocrites.
First of all may Allah curse you for cursing the Sahabas. Abu Huraira was one of the close associates of Prophet s..aw. He is one of the Ashab e sufa who were present in the mosque of Prophet s.a.w and learing all the time. Abu Sufyan was in Makka and not Medina. So stop copy pasting this b.s.
And Hazrat Abu Sufyan accepted Islam later on so he was one of the Sahabis. What does saying Ali is knowledge of gate have to do with asking him for help and committing shirk.?

[fragiledoll]

You know thats how Khomeni came into power, he used this excuse of 12th Imam and people rallied behind him. Same thing for current president.

it wasn't any excuse it was the truth..

[PakiRican]

u mean to say shia go to kabba to destroy it? if so, why? am confused a bit here!!!!!!!
dude this guy is making up fairytales
just ignore him

[Ash_s2002]

u mean to say shia go to kabba to destroy it? if so, why? am confused a bit here!!!!!!!
we never went to the kaba to destroy it we go for the same purpose as sunnis...as all muslims..the saudi government being wahhbais hate us thus there occur the difficulties fighting for your right to pray in the house of god..khanbab will refute the claim but there you go

[khanbaba_]

the man whose quote you base you religion upon was a liar
I quote form your books, so you are implying that your books are written by liars?

[khanbaba_]

we say his name in the kalima to become a muslim yet we cannot ask him for help...another quote u will have heard before " to praise muhammed SAW is to praise allah" but to ask muhammed the last prophet the greatest and last for help is shirk...:no:
No matter how hard you try, you are stuck now. Do you know the difference between praising some one and asking them for help?

[Ash_s2002]

First of all may Allah curse you for cursing the Sahabas. Abu Huraira was one of the close associates of Prophet s..aw. He is one of the Ashab e sufa who were present in the mosque of Prophet s.a.w and learing all the time. Abu Sufyan was in Makka and not Medina. So stop copy pasting this b.s.
And Hazrat Abu Sufyan accepted Islam later on so he was one of the Sahabis. What does saying Ali is knowledge of gate have to do with asking him for help and committing shirk.?
abu sufyan accepted islam later because he was too busy fighting the muslims when the proper shabas abu bakar umar usman rs were beside the prophet when islam ruled arabia and beyond and abu sufyan had no choice thats when he accepted

[PakiRican]

I quote form your books, so you are implying that your books are written by liars?
usman had abu huraira whipped for lying
that man was such a lyer dude

[Ash_s2002]

No matter how hard you try, you are stuck now. Do you know the difference between praising some one and asking them for help?
yeh i do...so asking the prophet of islam for help is shirk...thats just not clicking with me..hes the prophet the quran flows off his tongue....yet if we ask him for help the messenger of allah we are commiting shirk :no:

[fragiledoll]

Lol what does knowledge have to do with asking some one who is not present. That is clearly shirk. Hazrat Ali is laying in his grave and he cant hear you.

have you ever visitted the grave? i thought you are a good muslim with brain... i really feel sorry to know you express in this way..
but don't worry i am here i want to give you good knowledge and make you realise your thinking is wrong.

Ali - the Imam Ali (a.s) is not an ordinary man who is LAYING in his GRAVE. if this is the case the the Holy Prophet (saw) is laying in his grave too so why care? let us all forget about the prophets and imams because they r dead laying in their grave.... let us all care who are alive and i guess you know better represented by your molvis and as a shia i will believe in the so called imams...lets forget about the holy prophet saw.. lets not arrange mauluds and perform zaafa whatever it is...


happy?

[khanbaba_]

which books


the first person to know that ALI (a.s) is going to be the right Caliph was the Holy Prophet's wife (the one who used to interfere when the Imam and The Prophet were engaged in their talks) i dont remmebr her name but i can find out by tomoro..she came in the room where the Holy Prophet (saw)was sitting and Ali (a.s) was stitching/repairing Prophet's shoes... and asked the prophet who is going to be the Imam? then the Holy Prophet pointed to Imam Ali (a.s)
Nope, Prophet s.a.w odered Hazrat Abu Bakar r.a to lead the Muslims in prayer duting his last few days. Hazrat Ali was present there but Prophet s.a.w chose Hazrat Abu Bakar over Hazrat Ali. Hazrat Ali prayed behind him. Its written in one of your *authentic* tafseer, Tafseer e safi that Prophet s.a.w told his wife Hazrat Hafsa, after me Hazrat Abu Baka will be the Caliph (pge 523)

[khanbaba_]

u mean to say shia go to kabba to destroy it? if so, why? am confused a bit here!!!!!!!
Well they tried to do it in the 80s, there is a video and I shall post it later. Saudi forces killed all those Shias.

[Ash_s2002]

Well they tried to do it in the 80s, there is a video and I shall post it later. Saudi forces killed all those Shias.
from hcy i already seen it...not worth it

[PakiRican]

Nope, Prophet s.a.w odered Hazrat Abu Bakar r.a to lead the Muslims in prayer duting his last few days. Hazrat Ali was present there but Prophet s.a.w chose Hazrat Abu Bakar over Hazrat Ali. Hazrat Ali prayed behind him. Its written in one of your *authentic* tafseer, Tafseer e safi that Prophet s.a.w told his wife Hazrat Hafsa, after me Hazrat Abu Baka will be the Caliph (pge 523)
he chose ali! not bakar!!!! seriously dude
you are reading books in ur imagination

people voted bakar against prophets will

[khanbaba_]

abu sufyan accepted islam later because he was too busy fighting the muslims when the proper shabas abu bakar umar usman rs were beside the prophet when islam ruled arabia and beyond and abu sufyan had no choice thats when he accepted
It doesnt matter when he accepted Islam, when Prophet s.aw. enterted Makka, he said anyone who will enter the house of Abu Sufan, he will be protected.

[Ash_s2002]

It doesnt matter when he accepted Islam, when Prophet s.aw. enterted Makka, he said anyone who will enter the house of Abu Sufan, he will be protected.
thats why it says treat your friends well but treat your enemies better...but you will again sya off topic and say it means nothing read dude and think

[khanbaba_]

yeh i do...so asking the prophet of islam for help is shirk...thats just not clicking with me..hes the prophet the quran flows off his tongue....yet if we ask him for help the messenger of allah we are commiting shirk :no:
Look this is the last time I will say, only Allah is omni-present that he is all hearer and he sees everything. Prophet s.a.w is resting in his roza and asking anyone except Allah is shirk who is not present there. So when Shias say *ya Ali madad*, this is a clear statement of shirk.

[Ash_s2002]

Look this is the last time I will say, only Allah is omni-present that he is all hearer and he sees everything. Prophet s.a.w is resting in his roza and asking anyone except Allah is shirk who is not present there. So when Shias say *ya Ali madad*, this is a clear statement of shirk.
no it is not...ali is a friend of allah...ali is waliyun waliullah...saying ya ali madad is not asking ali for help it asking allah through his closest friend after the prophet

[khanbaba_]

from hcy i already seen it...not worth it
It is worth it, it was made by Saudi government, every thing was taped, how Irani Shias tried to take over Kabaa, now you are going to say, oh tehy are Wahabis and they hate us* lol. At that time Pakistani forces were present and they were called in to crush those rebels.

[PakiRican]

Look this is the last time I will say, only Allah is omni-present that he is all hearer and he sees everything. Prophet s.a.w is resting in his roza and asking anyone except Allah is shirk who is not present there. So when Shias say *ya Ali madad*, this is a clear statement of shirk.
you can ask anyone for help
only allah forgivness

[khanbaba_]

no it is not...ali is a friend of allah...ali is waliyun waliullah...saying ya ali madad is not asking ali for help it asking allah through his closest friend after the prophet

Ok I have made my point, keep doing it. Atleast Sunni here are reading it and they will know the real Shia beliefs.

[Ash_s2002]

It is worth it, it was made by Saudi government, every thing was taped, how Irani Shias tried to take over Kabaa, now you are going to say, oh tehy are Wahabis and they hate us* lol. At that time Pakistani forces were present and they were called in to crush those rebels.
false...it is because of wahaabis that event happened why would we try to suddenyl take over if we had not tried for more than 100 years...not even when our imam ali was present?.....why not?

[khanbaba_]

you can ask anyone for help
only allah forgivness
Thank you, we only ask Allah for help, and you can call anyone. For us this is shirk and this seperate Sunnis and Shias.

[crystalgems2]

Well they tried to do it in the 80s, there is a video and I shall post it later. Saudi forces killed all those Shias.
why they want to destroy kabba?
is it just because sunnis don't consider them as equal? i guess kabba sacred to them too

[khanbaba_]

false...it is because of wahaabis that event happened why would we try to suddenyl take over if we had not tried for more than 100 years...not even when our imam ali was present?.....why not?
Look its a clear fact they tried to take over Kaaba, no need to deny it.

[khanbaba_]

why they want to destroy kabba?
is it just because sunnis don't consider them as equal? i guess kabba sacred to them too
I dont know ask them.

[Ash_s2002]

Ok I have made my point, keep doing it. Atleast Sunni here are reading it and they will know the real Shia beliefs.
i will keep doing it because i have to get it over to my sunnis brothers that we are NOT asking ali for help we are using him as a path to get our message..waliyun waliullah

[fragiledoll]

Nope only Prophet-hood is chosen by Allah. This is one more of your deviant belief. This is another way you people elevate the status of your Imams next to the Prophets.

you think i care what you believe? or what Sunni's believe? i dont i will only try to show the truth and in the end if you dont then i dont waste my energy because when the truth is in front of your eyes it will be too late for you to do a thing about it.. Prophethood is chosen by Allah swt so is Imaamat. yeah what do you know the status about the Imams? do you know that the Imam is none other than than the grandchildrens of the Holy Prophet? what are you talking ? The Imams are not some cousins or neighbours they are the GRANDCHILDREN of the H.Prophet... and yes they have their own special powerful status which cannot be compared to the Holy prophet.

[PakiRican]

why they want to destroy kabba?
is it just because sunnis don't consider them as equal? i guess kabba sacred to them too
what the heck
destroy kaaba?
they wernt real shia

[fragiledoll]

But our Mahdi will be born before Qiyamat, he is not the same person you guys say was born 1250 years ago and is in a cave now.


he is the same Mahdi... and no he is not in the cave...

[Ash_s2002]

I dont know ask them.
yeh we would destroy t so we can make alis grave our qiblah when we pray ...were like that innit :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ...thats was sarcasm for the idiots.....anyone destroying the hosue of allah mayy god punish them all

[khanbaba_]

Ali - the Imam Ali (a.s) is not an ordinary man
So he has some special powers that He can hear people from thousands of mile away and help million of people at the same time? Interesting. :rolleyes:

[khanbaba_]

he is the same Mahdi... and no he is not in the cave...
Ok every Shias has a different story but I will go with one thats written in your authentic books.

[PakiRican]

yeh we would destroy t so we can make alis grave our qiblah when we pray ...were like that innit :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ...thats was sarcasm for the idiots.....anyone destroying the hosue of allah mayy god punish them all
seriously who ever thinks
shia tried to destroy kaaba needs to go to a coocoo house

[fragiledoll]

word

get a life

[Ash_s2002]

Look its a clear fact they tried to take over Kaaba, no need to deny it.
anyone can claim to be anyone...they were not shia...no reason to takeover or destroy kabaa

[PakiRican]

So he has some special powers that He can hear people from thousands of mile away and help million of people at the same time? Interesting. :rolleyes:
and u have specail powers to know what happened thousands of years ago

[khanbaba_]

what the heck
destroy kaaba?
they wernt real shia
Hhaha now they were not real Shias, ok they had the backing of Irani Govnt and Khomeni. One guy is denying it and atleast you have admitte, only they were not *real* Shias. Oh my taqiya lolz

[PakiRican]

get a life
what the heck

[Ash_s2002]

So he has some special powers that He can hear people from thousands of mile away and help million of people at the same time? Interesting. :rolleyes:
he is the gate to the city of knowledge...to understand him...is to try to understand the prophet....and understanding the word of the prophet is the word of allah thus it is ibadat

[khanbaba_]

and u have specail powers to know what happened thousands of years ago
You are just making your self look stupid. I am just quoting yor books, not that I believe in the myth of the 12th Imam.

[PakiRican]

Hhaha now they were not real Shias, ok they had the backing of Irani Govnt and Khomeni. One guy is denying it and atleast you have admitte, only they were not *real* Shias. Oh my taqiya lolz
the are not real shias means they were not even muslim
anyone who tries to attack kaaba isnt muslim
shut up you fool

[Ash_s2002]

Hhaha now they were not real Shias, ok they had the backing of Irani Govnt and Khomeni. One guy is denying it and atleast you have admitte, only they were not *real* Shias. Oh my taqiya lolz
dude you can only do taqiya when ur life is in danger why would we do it now..are you going to kill us over the net get that thought out ur head....

[*most_wanted*]

usman had abu huraira whipped for lying
that man was such a lyer dude
The source of this incident is taken from a Shee'ee text by the Shiite Mu'tazilite Ibn Abi al-Hadid who quotes Abu Ja'far al-Iskafi. Abu Ja'far al-Iskafi is a third century, Shiite Mu'tazalite. Al-Iskafi relates this incident with no chain or authorities


How could Umar accuse him of lying against the Messenger of Allah, and at the same time place him in charge of important posts??

Also the statement you just stated was an unverified historical incident that appears centuries after the deaths of Umar and Aboo Hurayrah and found in the works of those who harbor religious animosities against Aboo Hurayrah and adverse theological positions toward the Sunna.

[Ash_s2002]

You are just making your self look stupid. I am just quoting yor books, not that I believe in the myth of the 12th Imam.
dude how many of our books have you read? serious question

[fragiledoll]

There are clear grounds to show that Abu Huraira was an unreliable man. Your own ulema have confirmed this fact. One of the reasons for his being cursed is that, according to the words of the Prophet, he was an associate of the cursed son of the cursed Abu Sufyan. Abu Huraira was one of the hypocrites. On some occasions in Siffin he offered prayers led by the Commander of the Faithful, Ali. At other times he sat at the dining table of Mu'awiya to eat his fancy food. As reported by Zamakhshari in Rabiu'l-Abrar and Ibn Abi'l-Hadid in the commentary on Nahju'l-Balagha, when Abu Huraira was asked the reason for his double-dealing policy, he said, "Mu'awiya's food is very rich and savory, and prayers behind Ali are preferable." Your own ulema, like Sheikhu'l-Islam Hamwaini in Fara'id, Chapter 37, Khawarizmi in Manaqib, Tibrani in Ausar, Ganji Shafi'i in Kifayatu't-Talib (and a host of others) quote from this same Abu Huraira and others that the Prophet said, "Ali is with the Truth, and the Truth is with Ali." When he left Ali and courted the favor of Mu'awiya, was he not damnable? If one not only keeps silent at seeing the vicious deeds of Mu'awiya, but actually cooperates with him and helps him in order to advance his own worldly position and to fill his belly, is he not to be condemned?


do you read nahjul balagha?

[khanbaba_]

he is the gate to the city of knowledge...to understand him...is to try to understand the prophet....and understanding the word of the prophet is the word of allah thus it is ibadat
Ok you have not answered me. You keep coming up with more excuses. How many times I have to say that knowledge has nothing to do with asking someone not present for help.

[Ash_s2002]

The source of this incident is taken from a Shee'ee text by the Shiite Mu'tazilite Ibn Abi al-Hadid who quotes Abu Ja'far al-Iskafi. Abu Ja'far al-Iskafi is a third century, Shiite Mu'tazalite. Al-Iskafi relates this incident with no chain or authorities


How could Umar accuse him of lying against the Messenger of Allah, and at the same time place him in charge of important posts??

Also the statement you just stated was an unverified historical incident that appears centuries after the deaths of Umar and Aboo Hurayrah and found in the works of those who harbor religious animosities against Aboo Hurayrah and adverse theological positions toward the Sunna.
well if you say this were bukhari & muslim....were they present during the time of the prophet or did they write the things as the happened

[Ash_s2002]

do you read nahjul balagha?
I do

[PakiRican]

I do
so do i

[Ash_s2002]

Ok you have not answered me. You keep coming up with more excuses. How many times I have to say that knowledge has nothing to do with asking someone not present for help.
dude ure acting thick..stop pretending to read and read properly to ask ali for help is asking allah for help ali is his friend..wali....and allah holds his friends dear

[PakiRican]

dude ure acting thick..stop pretending to read and read properly to ask ali for help is asking allah for help ali is his friend..wali....and allah holds his friends dear
khan baba says that he reads our books
any fool can read
but he dont understand them

and thinks what he wants to think

[PakiRican]

do you read nahjul balagha?
dude those were quotes from sunni scholars not shia ones

[Ash_s2002]

khan baba says that he reads our books
any fool can read
but he dont understand them

and thinks what he wants to think
precisely why we have our imams ... anyone can learn a book i can ready masters maths and memorize but unless someon explains I am lost

[PakiRican]

precisely why we have our imams ... anyone can learn a book i can ready masters maths and memorize but unless someon explains I am lost
exactly
they were made to guide us

[Ash_s2002]

dude those were quotes from sunni scholars not shia ones
from commentaries on the naijlbalagha by sunni scholars

[fragiledoll]

Nope, Prophet s.a.w odered Hazrat Abu Bakar r.a to lead the Muslims in prayer duting his last few days. Hazrat Ali was present there but Prophet s.a.w chose Hazrat Abu Bakar over Hazrat Ali. Hazrat Ali prayed behind him. Its written in one of your *authentic* tafseer, Tafseer e safi that Prophet s.a.w told his wife Hazrat Hafsa, after me Hazrat Abu Baka will be the Caliph (pge 523)

who is the author of this book?

[fragiledoll]

There were times they were not allowed, but its all up to the Saudi Government. There are political reason behind it also. Like in 1980 Shias tried to destroy the Kabaa, so they were banned to visit Kaba for few years. hey have this thing called taqiya which is called holy hypocracy, and its great reward for Shias to hide their real beliefs. Thats one reason they go to Kaba.

i wil definately find out about this issue...

[PakiRican]

from commentaries on the naijlbalagha by sunni scholars
yes i know this

[khanbaba_]

dude how many of our books have you read? serious question
Enough books, dont keep the count. =)

[crystalgems2]

I dont know ask them.
in my opinion, destroying kabba was not their aim. if that is the case, still they can do it by sending missiles from Iran.
they might have tried to takeover Kabba to enforce their way of thinking on sunnis.
this could be a logical explanation for that event

[Ash_s2002]

Enough books, dont keep the count. =)
did u understand any or did u ask shia people to explain their point of view on them face to face....or ask a proper sunni scholar to explain?...

[khanbaba_]

dude ure acting thick..stop pretending to read and read properly to ask ali for help is asking allah for help ali is his friend..wali....and allah holds his friends dear
Thats what the Mushriks of Makka said, they believed in ALLAH but they said we pray to these idols, they take our duas and prayers to ALLAH. Same concept borrowed from the Mushrisk of Meccha.

[fragiledoll]

What about it? We follow the Sunnah that was passed through Sahabas while you people have no connection with Prophet s.a.w.

follow the wajibats from the Qura'n and then follow the Sunnas... the Shia's follow the Quran morethan sunnis. End of the story.

[Ash_s2002]

Thats what the Mushriks of Makka said, they believed in ALLAH but they said we pray to these idols, they take our duas and prayers to ALLAH. Same concept borrowed from the Mushrisk of Meccha.
but we dont have any idols so how si it the same you implying ali is an idol when i already explained we do not even ask him for help..it is asking allah for help ali is his friend....

[fragiledoll]

he chose ali! not bakar!!!! seriously dude
you are reading books in ur imagination

people voted bakar against prophets will


true. yeah people voted bakr against prophets will. true.

[khanbaba_]

in my opinion, destroying kabba was not their aim. if that is the case, still they can do it by sending missiles from Iran.
they might have tried to takeover Kabba to enforce their way of thinking on sunnis. this appears logical
Same thing, they tried to take it over, but can you take over peacefully, no?
Its not the first time, during the 3rd century Shias of Egypt ( I believe) attacked Kaba and took the hijre aswad(its a stone from Heaven) with them.

[fragiledoll]

So he has some special powers that He can hear people from thousands of mile away and help million of people at the same time? Interesting. :rolleyes:

his powers are super powers....................................... :dance3: ask the angel JIBRAEL.... do you know how? pray for 40 nights and 40 days i am sure you will see light!

[Whizkid786]

The 12th Imam is none other than........























































Bobby Brown
http://www.mtv.es/mtv.es/img/nws3/bobby_browngr.jpg

[fragiledoll]

Ok every Shias has a different story but I will go with one thats written in your authentic books.

author author author kaun hai?

[PakiRican]

true. yeah people voted bakr against prophets will. true.
after they voted for 3 corrupt people
they finally realized they should vote for imama ali

[khanbaba_]

follow the wajibats from the Qura'n and then follow the Sunnas... the Shia's follow the Quran morethan sunnis. End of the story.
Lol you follow Quran when you dont even believe this Quran is real. You believe real Quran is with your hidden Imam.

[Ash_s2002]

The 12th Imam is none other than........

Bobby Brown
http://www.mtv.es/mtv.es/img/nws3/bobby_browngr.jpg
:p :p :p

[Ash_s2002]

Lol you follow Quran when you dont even believe this Quran is real. You believe real Quran is with your hidden Imam.
dude have you read any of my posts today...I said we have the samer quran the same prophet the same kalima no difference

[khanbaba_]

author author author kaun hai?
Al kafi = kulayani,
Other books written by Khomeni, books written by Mullah Baqir Majlasi, and others

[khanbaba_]

dude have you read any of my posts today...I said we have the samer quran the same prophet the same kalima no difference
Do you believe that Al kafi is authentic, do you believe that books by Mullah baqir majlasi are authentic?

[Ash_s2002]

Do you believe that Al kafi is authentic, do you believe that books by Mullah baqir majlasi are authentic?
dude I calim to be no scholar...of too many books...but I know what our beliefs are if something is wrong i will tell you about it

[fragiledoll]

I do Mashallah


so do i
Mashallah..
i need to finish it.. i am too lazy..


dude ure acting thick..stop pretending to read and read properly to ask ali for help is asking allah for help ali is his friend..wali....and allah holds his friends dear

Naare Haidery.. you have expressed so beautifully i am just out of words.... Mashallah ...

[khanbaba_]

after they voted for 3 corrupt people
they finally realized they should vote for imama ali
For saying that first three Calips were corrupt, you have commited kufar.

[fragiledoll]

seriously who ever thinks
shia tried to destroy kaaba needs to go to a coocoo house

rofl
expressing anger is not right ...

[fragiledoll]

dude those were quotes from sunni scholars not shia ones

oh ok .. :) im not dude :( im dudette

[PakiRican]

For saying that first three Calips were corrupt, you have commited kufar.
its true!
they came to imam ali after seeing how they were

[fragiledoll]

Enough books, dont keep the count. =)

can i have the list of the names of the authors please i am asking u for the thrd time

[PakiRican]

oh ok .. :) im not dude :( im dudette
sorry dudette

[khanbaba_]

can i have the list of the names of the authors please i am asking u for the thrd time
I just told you if you are paying any attention.

[crystalgems2]

Same thing, they tried to take it over, but can you take over peacefully, no?
Its not the first time, during the 3rd century Shias of Egypt ( I believe) attacked Kaba and took the hijre aswad(its a stone from Heaven) with them.

3rd century AD no islam in egypt........is it 3rd century islamic calander?
whats the percentage of shia population in egypt? may be few thousands now?

[khanbaba_]

"Some people of knowledge mentioned that Abdullah bin Saba' was a Jew, who embraced Islam and supported Ali. While he was still a Jew, he used to go to extremism in calling Yousha' bin Noon as the appointee (successor) of Moses, thus after embracing Islam - after the demise of the Messenger of Allah [pbuh&hf] - he said the like about Ali. It was him who first publicly announced the mandatory Imamah for Ali, rejected and disowned his enemies, debated his opponents and called them Kafirs. Hence, those who oppose the Shi'ites often say: The Shi'ites and Rejectors (Rafidah) have their roots in Judaism"

[Rijaal al-Kash-shi, p.101; Al-Mamaqaani, author of Tanqeeh al-Maqaal, who is an authoritative Shi'i biogrophist quoted the like in page 184 his said book]
Abdullah Ibn Saba founder of Shia-ism.

[khanbaba_]

3rd century AD no islam in egypt........is it 3rd century islamic calander?
whats the percentage of shia population in egypt? may be few thousands now?
Come on you know I was referring to 3rd century of Islam and well at present there are not many Shias in Egypt. During the crusades, Shias sided with the crusaders agasint Salahudeen Ayubbi, so he had them expellded from North Africa.

[nikefc7]

was this another stunt to liven RD up a little???

[Whizkid786]

http://www.stardreamz.com/bbrown.jpg

[khanbaba_]

its true!
they came to imam ali after seeing how they were
Hazrat ALi r.a gave his daughter Hazrat Kulsoom to Hazrat Umer r.a. All that time they were closed friend and he was like a vizer to first three Caliphs. Also Hazrat Ali married to one of the widow of HAZRAT Abu Bakar. Hazrat Hassan and Hussain named their sons after the names of first three Caliphs.

[Ash_s2002]

[Rijaal al-Kash-shi, p.101; Al-Mamaqaani, author of Tanqeeh al-Maqaal, who is an authoritative Shi'i biogrophist quoted the like in page 184 his said book]
Abdullah Ibn Saba founder of Shia-ism.
dude all shia scholars condemn ibn saba if an idiot pretends to be a friend of a learned one doesnt make him a learned man..all i got to say on this read between the lines..or make it clear for you IBN SABA WAS A HYPOCRITE WHO ALL SHIAS HATE WITH A PASSION

[Spiky]

[img]


BAN FOR TROLLING!!!

[Ash_s2002]

Hazrat ALi r.a gave his daughter Hazrat Kulsoom to Hazrat Umer r.a. All that time they were closed friend and he was like a vizer to first three Caliphs. Also Hazrat Ali married to one of the widow of HAZRAT Abu Bakar. Hazrat Hassan and Hussain named their sons after the names of first three Caliphs.
false statement...shias dont agree with this as it is false slander..whatever book u quote it from