Why is outsourcing frowned upon?

[reaz]

I've read and heard a lot of opposition to outsourcing but when I try to discuss it further the reactionaries don't offer much of a debate.

The most common argument is that you're displacing employment from one nation to another for greater profits. Another argument is that the involved company is ruining the foreign country's economy as well by robbing labour from the country.

What are your opinions on this matter?

[Adnan786]

I get evry frustrated at the indians that attend calls. I have to repeat myself a couple of times, i should speak in hindi next time. Some are evry good and professional thou. Ok they arnt too bad. Its funny because when ever you ask them something personal they be like 'ok Mr ****** i am not allowed to answer aqny personal details, it is against our company policies'. Outsourcing is good for some, bad for others. Depends what side your on and whether you have something to lose or gain, or like me-neither.

[reaz]

Well how is it bad. That's what I want to read.

[bender]

Well how is it bad. That's what I want to read.

Outsourcing is not bad. The reason outsourcing is such a hot topic is that white collar jobs can and are being outsourced. If it were crappy low wage jobs, people would not be complaining.

[Adnan786]

It initially puts people out of jobs and makes them redundant, which could mean thousands of job cuts, depending on the size of the company.

[scorpio_]

its bad because it punishes americans for having a higher standard of living (as a result of higher average wages, a minimum wage, etc.) than those where outsourced jobs end up

some consider it an efficient way to do business, others cosider it essentially a socialist economic concept and it inherently unamerican

[Shaz2sxy]

I've read and heard a lot of opposition to outsourcing but when I try to discuss it further the reactionaries don't offer much of a debate.

The most common argument is that you're displacing employment from one nation to another for greater profits. Another argument is that the involved company is ruining the foreign country's economy as well by robbing labour from the country.

What are your opinions on this matter?

The main reaso is that companies are only doing it for profit, it is saving them a ton of cash, BUT customer service has gone down the toilet. Take Apples call centre, they cannot speak standard english. It is hard for them to understand us and for us to udnerstand ther FOB accents.

There are not that many indian call centres that have someone who speaks standard english.

[Mz_exotic]

I've read and heard a lot of opposition to outsourcing but when I try to discuss it further the reactionaries don't offer much of a debate.

The most common argument is that you're displacing employment from one nation to another for greater profits. Another argument is that the involved company is ruining the foreign country's economy as well by robbing labour from the country.

What are your opinions on this matter?

cus u get people callin u 4rm india at all times of the day called brian adams and victoria beckham trying to sell you mobile phone contracts :mad:

[bender]

I saw an episode on 60 minutes where people are going overseas for medical examinations and surgery. That's a good thing because if there is a lot fo doctors in the market the cost of medical care will go down. So, if hospitals are outsourcing medical billing, and x-ray reading. The benefit is being felt by consumers.

[reaz]

I saw an episode on 60 minutes where people are going overseas for medical examinations and surgery. That's a good thing because if there is a lot fo doctors in the market the cost of medical care will go down. So, if hospitals are outsourcing medical billing, and x-ray reading. The benefit is being felt by consumers.

Yes. A direct benefit of outsourcing is that the gross margin on products will go up so companies will be less reluctant to lower product costs which translates to lowered pricing on items.

[dj XeNo]

2 days a week we have a conf call with a team in india, they repeat the same shit over and over and over again, and can never seem to get to the point. a 20 min call sometimes goes over an hour. They don't seem to have any common sense at all. IF we keep outsourcing jobs, what jobs are we gonna keep here?

[reaz]

2 days a week we have a conf call with a team in india, they repeat the same shit over and over and over again, and can never seem to get to the point. a 20 min call sometimes goes over an hour. They don't seem to have any common sense at all. IF we keep outsourcing jobs, what jobs are we gonna keep here?

well new jobs are created all the time if there is an increase in production or expansion. So basically if the company is allowed to expand or increase their production they will have more profits. the more profits they have the more they will spend which will create more jobs.

[dj XeNo]

well new jobs are created all the time if there is an increase in production or expansion. So basically if the company is allowed to expand or increase their production they will have more profits. the more profits they have the more they will spend which will create more jobs.

yeah but they will create more jobs in India, not here.

[reaz]

yeah but they will create more jobs in India, not here.

No they will create more jobs here as well. Here's an example:


I own ABC company. I outsource 1000 jobs in India. I hire 1000 workers in India for really cheap. I hire 50 managers to take care of them. Here I keep 5 of my best workers to manage them. I lay off the 995 other workers.. (perhaps)..

Because of the increased profits (due to cheap labour) I have more capital than I started with. I can do the following things with this money:

1. Reinvest the capital in my company to expand it.
2. Spend all the money indulging in my lavish expenses
3. Upgrade equipment in my company to improve production efficiency

In all 3 cases I am creating more employment by stimulating the economy. And chances are I am creating jobs here as well as in India.

[notoriou$punjabi]

America has 11 million illegals in order to deal with labour related problems. To provide them a work permit and to be monitored during 5 to 7 years directly by immigration. In the meanwhile they pay taxes, maintain a record with the govt. and be granted status within 7 years.

They have labour for the next 20 years that can start at the bottom of the ladder or be employed directly for govt. related projects. The higher paying jobs outsourced to India dont make that big of a dent in the American economy.

[notoriou$punjabi]

The companies not only move offshore for cheaper employment but to lower standards and government regulations.

For instance a pharmacuetical company tested a drug in India with most patients coming from Kerela. However the drug according to US standards had not passed the testing stage. A drug to be used on animals, tested on humans who were then left with severe conditions and nobody to be held accountable for.

This is only one loop-hope in the system full of flaws.

[reaz]

The companies not only move offshore for cheaper employment but to lower standards and government regulations.

For instance a pharmacuetical company tested a drug in India with most patients coming from Kerela. However the drug according to US standards had not passed the testing stage. A drug to be used on animals, tested on humans who were then left with severe conditions and nobody to be held accountable for.

This is only one loop-hope in the system full of flaws.

Yes. This lowered standards and regulations bit is definitely a flaw. I wonder if there are any policies in place to prevent fraud. I don't see outsourcing a problem unless the same business principles are maintained. But to move out of the country in order to mislead the public is a problem.

But that makes me wonder. Are the regulations in place just? Or are they flawed as well?

[notoriou$punjabi]

Yes. This lowered standards and regulations bit is definitely a flaw. I wonder if there are any policies in place to prevent fraud. I don't see outsourcing a problem unless the same business principles are maintained. But to move out of the country in order to mislead the public is a problem.

But that makes me wonder. Are the regulations in place just? Or are they flawed as well?
Its over a 10 year phase that the regulations and Govt. inteventions will be totally modernised. Right now its the introductory phase and with time proper measures will be taken.

During this time however the carelessness will take its toll with companies taking bigger piece of the cake. They save in every manner possible and increase investments in the western hemisphere. They are simply moving offshore to compete in the same western league with more assets.

Anti-fraud agencies cannot so far deal with large scale activites new to the country. India can not only gain through privatisation but investing in manufacturing and exporting on a larger scale. To even imagine an India where half the population starts doing its taxes is incredible. The mentality needs to settle in & so will the counter-intelligence.

[reaz]

Its over a 10 year phase that the regulations and Govt. inteventions will be totally modernised. Right now its the introductory phase and with time proper measures will be taken.

During this time however the carelessness will take its toll with companies taking bigger piece of the cake. They save in every manner possible and increase investments in the western hemisphere. They are simply moving offshore to compete in the same western league with more assets.

Anti-fraud agencies cannot so far deal with large scale activites new to the country. India can not only gain through privatisation but investing in manufacturing and exporting on a larger scale. To even imagine an India where half the population starts doing its taxes is incredible. The mentality needs to settle in & so will the counter-intelligence.

I don't seem to have a problem with what you have said in the second paragraph. I hold the belief that profits and losses are necessary to stimulate the economy. Larger assets will eventually get injected into the economy as I mentioned before.

[notoriou$punjabi]

Socio-economic problems need to be dealt with a bit constructively. Not everyone benefits from call centres and customer service jobs. The poor survive on smaller means of earning bread and need to be looked after just as effectively.

[I_uLLu]

How is it bad? People loose their jobs because of it. Why else? Of course the company is doing it for greater profits, what other motive is there? Since when was it so hard to figure out why outsourcing is bad/good?

[jus_me]

from what i have experienced, the only reason it is frowned upon is because of the language barrier and the confusion that ensues.

none of my mates are annoyed that people in this country are being bypassed for jobs etc..

i dont blame the companies for outsourcing either, they have to think of their profits and revenue too, if they didnt want to make any money they would have become a voluntary organisation.

the problem i personally have with call centre people is that they are always very rude, when they dont understand your problem (Even though you have explained to them in the clearest english what it is), they start to get rude and say that you are the problem as they have had no other complaints (i speak from experience). also, when you ask them a simple question and they dont have the answer, they dont tell you this, they try and speak their way out of it by using the floweriest language they can, knowing that whilst they are confusing you, they are also confusing themselves.

[JayJai]

Its nothing but headaches!

Ive worked with many of the Outsourcers in India, TCS, Infosys, Satyam, etc etc..and there all the same.

* They do exactly as there told and dont think ahead

* they will nod there head to everything and say they can do everything and then deliver some crap

* If you tell them to design an Application to run on max of 100 Web Servers they will do that! BUT, god forbid the infrastructure has 101 servers the whole shite will fall to bits!

* When you make things clear on what you want, and then go mad why its not done, they apologise and say theyll fix it!...ITS NOT THE FUCKING POINT!!! We have dead lines you thick fucking Indian!

* The cost you save its not that much in term of Net Value. Do a search on many Outsourcing papers and you will see exactly what I mean!

* Whilst India has the highest rate of Degree holders, there about as good as a Chocalate Teapot as the syllabus over there is still teh same from over 30 years ago!! LOL...not many realise this when they talk about India and the number of graduates (same for Pakistan).

Indian Indians are ok for Call Centre etc, but god forbid that you give them something that requires a little lateral thinking as itll all get screwed!!

JJ

[bad_cheque]

I will give you a more general case against the kind of outsourcing that goes on. Firstly, it creates a massive displacement in societies where the workers lose their jobs. The social consequences are not easily manageable. Never in the history of mankind has such changes been wrought through man-made means for economic gain (excepting wars and revolutions). Most people plan their lives with some exceptation of how the future will be. Thats why people are ready to spend thousands of dollars to go to grad schools. They have a certain hope. Others have kids in school. If they are not fulfilled there will be social disruption that will eventually bring down the whole polity and economy wiping away whatever monetary savings/gains that were made.

Secondly, many jobs that have been outsourced are low-level jobs that require lesser skills and before outsourcing were positioned as entry-level jobs. These are the jobs at the bottom where new entrants into the job market learnt skills, were groomed and identified for future successes. These skills are getting rapidly lost so that slowly experienced workers from other countries are having to be brought over to man jobs that require a higher level of expertise.

Thirdly, the monetary savings and gains that you speak of need not be reinvested in the country where the jobs were orignally lost to outsourcing. Even if reinvestment happens it would be for projects that involve more complicated skills that don't need as many people who were rendered jobless and cannot be imparted to such people very easily. A good amount of reinvestment goes to other countries. The only gainers are the investors who may already be rich. This increases inequality.

I can't think of any more but I would say that outsourcing and capital migration to countries like India, China and the countries of South-east Asia is an inevitability. India and China used to account for 50% of the world GDP before European colonialism excercised its deleterious effects on these two countries. They are simply gaining back their wealth. They will never enjoy the standards of livng that Europeans and Americans have enjoyed but in absolute terms Europeans and especially Americans will see a large decline in their standard of living in absolute terms. This will have deep social effects.

As the Chinese curse says, "May you live in interesting times."

[jumpn jza]

Its frowned upon because it's probably one of the few aspects of globalization which are actually helping the third world develop...

[bad_cheque]

Its frowned upon because it's probably one of the few aspects of globalization which are actually helping the third world develop...
lol!

[naughtyness]

Outsourcing is bad because it relocates and also eliminates potential jobs. America is runnin outta jobs for its people. Also, when an organization outsources its labor, its methods of labor are unjust (sweat shops w/e etc.)

plus i get sick of those dell dudes calling me up and being like "hullo my name is bob" and its like.uh no..more like kirpar.

[EverBlazinGyal]

its bad because it punishes americans for having a higher standard of living (as a result of higher average wages, a minimum wage, etc.) than those where outsourced jobs end up

some consider it an efficient way to do business, others cosider it essentially a socialist economic concept and it inherently unamerican

hmmm

i never thought about it that way...

[bad_cheque]

hmmm

i never thought about it that way...
:rofl:

[EverBlazinGyal]

:rofl:

i don't understand why you felt the need to laugh :ugh2:

[paulie walnuts]

its bad because it punishes americans for having a higher standard of living (as a result of higher average wages, a minimum wage, etc.) than those where outsourced jobs end upemployees sell their services to employers.

american employees are being punished for severely overpricing their services without offering enough of a quality advantage to justify the price premium.

obviously nobody expects american employees to work for $5-10k per year. if they don't want to work for those wages, they need to figure out how to establish competitive advantage over third-world coolies. either move up the value chain or find another profession. lobbying politicians for legislation that artificially preserves their employment is not the way.

some consider it an efficient way to do business, others cosider it essentially a socialist economic concept and it inherently unamericanlol...outsourcing is a socialist concept? that's a first.

outsourcing is free-market to the core...and shitting on free market economics is what's unamerican.

[Aurovon]

employees sell their services to employers.

american employees are being punished for severely overpricing their services without offering enough of a quality advantage to justify the price premium.

obviously nobody expects american employees to work for $5-10k per year. if they don't want to work for those wages, they need to figure out how to establish competitive advantage over third-world coolies. either move up the value chain or find another profession. lobbying politicians for legislation that artificially preserves their employment is not the way.

lol...outsourcing is a socialist concept? that's a first.

outsourcing is free-market to the core...and shitting on free market economics is what's unamerican.


:clap:

[tinman]

i saw on cnn 2 days ago that there are parents in north america outsourcing math tutors to india. there's a business that has indians tutoring math to kids online.

pretty crazy stuff.

[bad_cheque]

i saw on cnn 2 days ago that there are parents in north america outsourcing math tutors to india. there's a business that has indians tutoring math to kids online.

pretty crazy stuff.
A book claimed that at the turn of the last century (around the 1890s to 1910s)
people in California used to send clothes for washing and dry-cleaning to China. Now that is crazy!