Are Hindus Religious?

[Duude]

Hope i aint treading on a tight rope here. But i've come to notice most of the religious-type threads on the forums are from Muslim members, concerning Islamic issues. If i'm correct, the majority of members on here are Muslim or Hindu, so how come there aren't many threads dedicated to the discussion of topics involving Hinduism?

Are most hindus not really that practicing?
If you're Hindu, do you practice your religion? and how often do you visit the mandir etc. Do you have a 'day of rest' like us Muslims have on Friday?
Sorry for the ignorrance. Not really as clued up as i'd like to be on Hinduism, so help me out. I'm curious. :D

[PrOfFaSeE]

hindu is a broad term

[Duude]

hindu is a broad term

:sarb: I don't get you..care to elaborate?

[IPunjabi.Blood]

:sarb: I don't get you..care to elaborate?

He just called you a dumbass.

[PrOfFaSeE]

:sarb: I don't get you..care to elaborate?
ok
well
hinduism is all over the world
and depending on where one or ones ancestrial belief originates the type of hindu may differ

hindus follow vedic scripture obviously
in different ways

im 6th generation south african indian
im a hindu, i dont eat meat on tuesdays and i pray at home

each hindu differs, as we have different means of worship

[Duude]

ok
well
hinduism is all over the world
and depending on where one or ones ancestrial belief originates the type of hindu may differ

hindus follow vedic scripture obviously
in different ways

im 6th generation south african indian
im a hindu, i dont eat meat on tuesdays and i pray at home

each hindu differs, as we have different means of worship

I get you. Why can't or why don't you eat meat on tuedays?

[STUpendous]

I get you. Why can't or why don't you eat meat on tuedays?

arbitrary religious rules with little to no proper justification.. as a muslim, i'm sure you're familiar with the concept

[...Hero...]

Hindu's have less issues :dunno:

[Duude]

arbitrary religious rules with little to no proper justification.. as a muslim, i'm sure you're familiar with the concept

Nah im not with you. Most of the concepts are made clear in Islam. But this thread is meant to be about Hinduism.

[Irreligious Left]

arbitrary religious rules with little to no proper justification.. as a muslim, i'm sure you're familiar with the concept

You are too much, Stu.

[madam_jade]

ok
well
hinduism is all over the world
and depending on where one or ones ancestrial belief originates the type of hindu may differ

hindus follow vedic scripture obviously
in different ways

im 6th generation south african indian
im a hindu, i dont eat meat on tuesdays and i pray at home

each hindu differs, as we have different means of worship

You're the first person I've encountered who also doesn't eat meat on tuesdays. Everyone always gives me a :blink: look when I tell them that. :hug:

[STUpendous]

Nah im not with you. Most of the concepts are made clear in Islam. But this thread is meant to be about Hinduism.

it was meant to be a zinger

you should have shat your pants in anger by now

[Duude]

it was meant to be a zinger

you should have shat your pants in anger by now

Sorry to disappoint you, but my external anal sphincter is not relaxed quite enough for me to defecate just yet. :sarb:

[Space-Cowboy]

Hope i aint treading on a tight rope here. But i've come to notice most of the religious-type threads on the forums are from Muslim members, concerning Islamic issues. If i'm correct, the majority of members on here are Muslim or Hindu, so how come there aren't many threads dedicated to the discussion of topics involving Hinduism?

Are most hindus not really that practicing?
If you're Hindu, do you practice your religion? and how often do you visit the mandir etc. Do you have a 'day of rest' like us Muslims have on Friday?
Sorry for the ignorrance. Not really as clued up as i'd like to be on Hinduism, so help me out. I'm curious. :D


I've made tons of posts on Hinduism, what would you like to know, specifically?

Hinduism as a whole tries to promote spiritual realization over religious routine as a whole. BUT, as a religion, it also allow people to achieve spiritual realization, THROUGH religious routine.

[shamera]

My boyfriend is a Hindu. He's not religious at all...infact, he told me that he'd convert to an Ismaili if him and I got that serious in the future. He goes to a mandir 2 a year, I think on Diwali and some other day that I don't remember.

[shamera]

i made one discussing hindu punjabis! maybe you should search em before making a gay thread like this, and no i don't pratice my religion, and i go like 1 a year to the the mandir and you Muslims sometimes are very relgious. it really annoys me or some pretend they are. like this girl i know, takes off her hijab at school when her mom dosn't know, and then when your suppose to fast she friggin eats.
You should stuff a piece of pepperoni in her face and see if she gobbles it down.

[Duude]

maybe you should search em before making a gay thread like this

Sorry, i didn't realise Hindus themselves would think a topic on their religion to be gay. But if thats how you feel about your faith..fair enough.


it really annoys me or some pretend they are. like this girl i know, takes off her hijab at school when her mom dosn't know, and then when your suppose to fast she friggin eats.

Why are you so angry at her being a bad muslim? Whats up your arse? Thats her problem.

[IwantYou]

Hindu's have less issues :dunno:

yeah if we have a prob we meditate :D

[Space-Cowboy]

My boyfriend is a Hindu. He's not religious at all...infact, he told me that he'd convert to an Ismaili if him and I got that serious in the future. He goes to a mandir 2 a year, I think on Diwali and some other day that I don't remember.


No offense but converting 'for love' is wrong..... and ignorant... the fact is, if he's not 'serious' as a Hindu, and converts to Ismaili, he's probably not gonna be a serious Ismaili either..............


Eitherway, if he converts, he never really understood the message of Hinduism to begin with.....

[selina_786]

Seriously, just tell your mom if you don't wanna wear it but don't take it off in school like that, and your parent's down know. I bet your parents would understand since your living in america.
You say it like its so easy :lol: If everything was this easy in this world, would we ever have any problems?

[shamera]

Seriously, just tell your mom if you don't wanna wear it but don't take it off in school like that, and your parent's down know. I bet your parents would understand since your living in america.
:yes: Sure thang. I'm not a Sunni so I don't wear a hijab but I've got plenty of Sunni friends that are more westernized than me. It's just the lack of communication between kids and parents.

[selina_786]

No offense but converting 'for love' is wrong..... and ignorant... the fact is, if he's not 'serious' as a Hindu, and converts to Ismaili, he's probably not gonna be a serious Ismaili either..............


Eitherway, if he converts, he never really understood the message of Hinduism to begin with.....
Werd and werd.

[longjohnsilver]

ok
well
hinduism is all over the world
and depending on where one or ones ancestrial belief originates the type of hindu may differ

hindus follow vedic scripture obviously
in different ways

im 6th generation south african indian
im a hindu, i dont eat meat on tuesdays and i pray at home

each hindu differs, as we have different means of worship

I used to do the tuesday thing too and my christian polish friends on friday... then I went total vege after I realised I was mutating into some sort of animal

[shamera]

No offense but converting 'for love' is wrong..... and ignorant... the fact is, if he's not 'serious' as a Hindu, and converts to Ismaili, he's probably not gonna be a serious Ismaili either..............


Eitherway, if he converts, he never really understood the message of Hinduism to begin with.....
He knows a lot more about Ismailism than I do. However, the question of him converting is eons from today.

[selina_786]

:yes: Sure thang. I'm not a Sunni so I don't wear a hijab but I've got plenty of Sunni friends that are more westernized than me. It's just the lack of communication between kids and parents.
Ismailis aren't supposed to be wearing Hijabs?

[21cent]

:sarb: :sarb:

[shamera]

Ismailis aren't supposed to be wearing Hijabs?
It's not the question of whether we're "supposed" to or not. It's more of a cultural thing. However, the majority of Ismailis do not wear them.

[selina_786]

It might not be easy, but still if you don't wanna wear it, tell your parents, if they get angry, they will have to accept the fact sooner or later that your living here and you don't wanna wear one.
What if they don't and start physically abusing the child instead. Oh yea, that makes them bad parents and the case closes.

[selina_786]

It's not the question of whether we're "supposed" to or not. It's more of a cultural thing. However, the majority of Ismailis do not wear them.oh but its not a cultural thing according to Muslims.

Anywayz this thread is about hindus and hinduism, lets not be selfish lol.

[Space-Cowboy]

Werd and werd.

:sarb: I just got $30 credited to my account today..... so I thought take part in some productive Karma,.... and actually PRACTICE some Dharma..... donated it all to unicef for Lebanon relief......


yay tax rebate!! :dance3: :p

[shamera]

What if they don't and start physically abusing the child instead. Oh yea, that makes them bad parents and the case closes.
There are legal actions for that. We are all well aware of that.

[shamera]

oh but its not a cultural thing according to Muslims.
No, it really is. :lol: I'm a Muslim, I would know...but then again...so are you? Is this again one of those "let's fight cuz I'm a Sunni and I hate you" sorta deals? I hope not, cuz I like you. :neutral:

[selina_786]

:sarb: I just got $30 credited to my account today..... so I thought take part in some productive Karma,.... and actually PRACTICE some Dharma..... donated it all to unicef for Lebanon relief......


yay tax rebate!! :dance3: :p
I'm just skint :neutral:

[selina_786]

No, it really is. :lol: I'm a Muslim, I would know...but then again...so are you? Is this again one of those "let's fight cuz I'm a Sunni and I hate you" sorta deals? I hope not, cuz I like you. :neutral:
Lol no it isn't... I edited the post.. this is a hinduism thread and no I don't hate on ismailis or even shiites or is it shia muslims :confused:

[Space-Cowboy]

Agreed.


What's with your sig? :sarb:

[shamera]

I mean lots of Muslim girls are pretty and they have the right to show there prettyness. But I mean i just consider it wrong to take your hijab off in school, just to show your parents your religous. Why be ashamed of your religion?
A lot of Muslims are really conservative. The reason why they wouldn't want their daughters to take their hijabs off is for this very reason...they're pretty. Guys look at them, hormones...blah. Really, it's one of those things that should be practiced in Pakistan/India because there are a bunch of pedos there. Here, a girl is lucky if a hot guy looks at her. It's not valid. According to me at least.

[Space-Cowboy]

I'm just skint :neutral:

:slap2:




That slap was not because you're 'skint'... but because I don't know what 'skint' means....

[...Hero...]

You're the first person I've encountered who also doesn't eat meat on tuesdays. Everyone always gives me a :blink: look when I tell them that. :hug:

...First my ass me and RJ dont either :slap:

[selina_786]

I mean lots of Muslim girls are pretty and they have the right to show there prettyness. But I mean i just consider it wrong to take your hijab off in school, just to show your parents your religous. Why be ashamed of your religion?well, they must be forced to wear it by their parents. I don't think they are ahamed of religion, they prolly choose not to follow it.

[shamera]

Lol no it isn't... I edited the post.. this is a hinduism thread and no I don't hate on ismailis or even shiites or is it shia muslims :confused:
Shia Imami Ismaili Nizari Muslims. =) Try saying that three times really fast.

[Felonius Monk]

Its because Hinduism only consists of core philosophical beliefs. There aren't any social or political laws. Only recommendations that facilitate living in accordance with the philosophy.

[Space-Cowboy]

Why does everyone keep asking me that?

...... maybe because there's something wrong with your sig?

:mrhappy:

[Space-Cowboy]

btw, if you people want, I'll gladly post what the crux of Vedic Philosophy entails..

[Sweet Miasma]

i have a friend....and shes a devout hindu..
shes always going to the mandir...very active in all the community projects that take place there...
doesnt eat meat even though some of her friends do it against their religion...
i respect her more cuz of all that..

[shamera]

Oh my gosh, that is very true. I was in India in March I think. I was there with my sister, and my aunt who is like 27 and married and there are a bunch of guys over there and seriously they are perverts. It is very disgusting. Like my aunt is married, and they seriously kept hitting on her. My sister & I pretty much ignored it. It's like they never seen a girl before.
:yes: Sad aint it?

[Space-Cowboy]

Ugh. Pedestrian.

Ugh. Amphibian.

[madam_jade]

...First my ass me and RJ dont either :slap:

I didn't know you creepy creep.

And I thought you were full-out veggie :hand:

[Space-Cowboy]

i have a friend....and shes a devout hindu..
shes always going to the mandir...very active in all the community projects that take place there...
doesnt eat meat even though some of her friends do it against their religion...
i respect her more cuz of all that..


It's not 'against' Hindu religion to eat meat.

[madam_jade]

btw, if you people want, I'll gladly post what the crux of Vedic Philosophy entails..
No, cowboy. Nobody wants. We're all brain-dead and narrow-minded. :ashamed:

[Ac89]

your thread title is a bit off. It's like asking Are Sikh's religious? That all depends on who you talk to...as each person differs :idea:

i'm hindu and we have a mandir in my house...so it's never far from me. i go as often as i can.

[shamera]

like somethings that i don't believe in hindu relegion is those days you can't get a haircut and wash your hair, but sometimes i prey, i mean i have a murti in my room. before i have to take a test, i always prey.
:rofl: Prey on what?!

Pray*** :slap:

[madam_jade]

:roflwtf:

Ugh. Chipkali.
That's a serious :ugh: moment right there.

:ugh:

[hakaanpathan]

like somethings that i don't believe in hindu relegion is those days you can't get a haircut and wash your hair, but sometimes i prey, i mean i have a murti in my room. before i have to take a test, i always prey.

you only pray when you need/want something?

[EverBlazinGyal]

Why are you so angry at her being a bad muslim? Whats up your arse? Thats her problem.

the hindus in this thread could say the same thing to you eh.

[EverBlazinGyal]

btw, if you people want, I'll gladly post what the crux of Vedic Philosophy entails..
please do!

[EverBlazinGyal]

like somethings that i don't believe in hindu relegion is those days you can't get a haircut and wash your hair, but sometimes i prey, i mean i have a murti in my room. before i have to take a test, i always prey.

really? you prey? on what?

[shamera]

really? you prey? on what?
I beat you to it! HA!

[...Hero...]

I didn't know you creepy creep.

And I thought you were full-out veggie :hand:

Well that kinda changed recently ...blaaaa

[EverBlazinGyal]

I beat you to it! HA!

LOL

:ashamed:

[shamera]

LOL

:ashamed:
There there. Hota hai. :gayfight:

[:::knockout:::]

Hindus are religious, however, they are not fanatics who go around trying to convert the world through mental/physical force. Hinduism is a way of life that poeple find themselves.

As for the poeple on this site... If youre Muslim, you probably shouldnt be here since the majority of this site is focused on External Beauty, sex, alcoholism, etc. In addition, Ive noticed that there are quite a few retards that try to claim that they are religious Muslims, however, they enjoy being penetrated by Hindu Boyfriends while getting drunk on wine/bacardi (this is in reference to what is displayed on the mainsite).

PS - Reading the Quoron doesnt make you a "good" Muslim, following the priciples of humanity does.

[shamera]

Hindus are religious, however, they are not fanatics who go around trying to convert the world through mental/physical force. Hinduism is a way of life that poeple find themselves.

As for the poeple on this site... If youre Muslim, you probably shouldnt be here since the majority of this site is focused on External Beauty, sex, alcoholism, etc. In addition, Ive noticed that there are quite a few retards that try to claim that they are religious Muslims, however, they enjoy being penetrated by Hindu Boyfriends while getting drunk on wine/bacardi (this is in reference to what is displayed on the mainsite).

PS - Reading the Quoron doesnt make you a "good" Muslim, following the priciples of humanity does.
If onli all Muslims had the sort of mentality you do. The world would be a better place.

[sikhsta]

Hindus are religious, however, they are not fanatics who go around trying to convert the world through mental/physical force. Hinduism is a way of life that poeple find themselves.

As for the poeple on this site... If youre Muslim, you probably shouldnt be here since the majority of this site is focused on External Beauty, sex, alcoholism, etc. In addition, Ive noticed that there are quite a few retards that try to claim that they are religious Muslims, however, they enjoy being penetrated by Hindu Boyfriends while getting drunk on wine/bacardi (this is in reference to what is displayed on the mainsite).

PS - Reading the Quoron doesnt make you a "good" Muslim, following the priciples of humanity does.


yes they do not try to force- convert, but the indian government is vast majority Hindutva, or extremist Hindu.

[Spiky]

yes they do not try to force- convert, but the indian government is vast majority Hindutva, or extremist Hindu.

are u referring to BJP, coz last i read, itz a congress party in power and a sikh prime minister. and I have read that congress has the highest majority of muslim / christian population support, over that of any other contending party..so I completely fail what u meant by extremist hindu in power.

[sikhsta]

are u referring to BJP, coz last i read, itz a congress party in power and a sikh prime minister. and I have read that congress has the highest majority of muslim / christian population support, over that of any other contending party..so I completely fail what u meant by extremist hindu in power.


i was referring to the previous administration in india's gov't during the 70's

[hindu_heat]

hinduism is more about spirituality where answers are not black and white unlike islam.

it would be fun to discuss matters of spirituality, but most people are too immature/incapable

[:::knockout:::]

If onli all Muslims had the sort of mentality you do. The world would be a better place.
huh? Im not suicidal.

[sikhsta]

hinduism is more about spirituality where answers are not black and white unlike islam.

it would be fun to discuss matters of spirituality, but most people are too immature/incapable


"unlike islam"?

im sure if you looked into the quran, it'll have more content than your assumption.

No religion is bad, all preach the simple basic values of humanity if u take all the "meat" out of it and keep the skeleton of religion.

[:::knockout:::]

yes they do not try to force- convert, but the indian government is vast majority Hindutva, or extremist Hindu.
So what if they majority are Hindu? What does that have to do with anything? Theyre letting all the Christians/Sikhs/etc live in Peace.

Most Islamic countries wipe out anyone who does not believe in the myth of Allah.

[:::knockout:::]

Jesus was black.

[Sweet Miasma]

It's not 'against' Hindu religion to eat meat.
well...i dont knw...but she's not allowed to eat it because of her religion....so if her friends eat meat ....arent they going against religion?? :dunno:
enlighten me

[sikhsta]

So what if they majority are Hindu? What does that have to do with anything? Theyre letting all the Christians/Sikhs/etc live in Peace.

Most Islamic countries wipe out anyone who does not believe in the myth of Allah.


from the early 80's to this very day, the indian government is responsible of massacring over 100,000 Sikhs, around 75,000 Muslims, and 50,000 other minorities including Dalits and Christians..

go to the villages in Punjab, u will see how terrible the situation is

[RacingSoul]

Jesus was black.

no he wasnt :hand:

he was a mullatto.

[Space-Cowboy]

Already sent this to GND but here goes:

Vedic Philosophy revolves around the idea that we are all One;…. and that there is no distinguishing between Creator and Creation. Brahman [ what you call God], is the Sum Total of all Existence. But it doesn’t stop there….. our existence, is very much finite, but Brahman is Infinite. And so, in the Ultimate Reality, we as our selves, don’t exist, but are a part of said Ultimate Reality…… all our souls are a part of said Reality.

Essentially, God, Brahman, Heaven, Moksha, Nirvana, Ultimate Reality, The One….. are all One and the Same thing. It is the very foundation of Vedic Philosophy that the ONLY thing that TRULY Exists, IS God.

Us, this Universe that we live in, this life, these are all Illusions, including us, ourselves…., hiding the very Principle of the Ultimate Reality that we are a part of……

Through the process of meditation, and positive Karma, and focusing our Devotional Energy [the best way to describe the last one would be ‘praying’ and ‘loyalty’ towards the faith in the existence of the Divine Reality, and the One-ness principle], we begin to achieve Nirvana……. a state of Total Enlightenment….. Buddha for example reached this…. And I personally believe Krishna for example reached this….. as did many other great preachers of our world. Through Nirvana, we are able to achieve Moksha.

On Karma [cause/effect, action/reaction, deed/consequence]:
Positive Karma: through positive actions, we also begin to become Self aware of the One-ness principle, through various good deeds, whether in this life, or another.

On Reincarnation: our Soul-Energy [what you call ‘soul’], is immortal, moving from one life to the next through a process of birth, life, death, and rebirth, and so forth. Our hope is to break free of this cycle, and achieve Moksha.

On life: Life involves SUFFERING…… that’s what we’re doing here, we’re suffering…. And there’s plenty of it in the world. Through good Karma, we can alleviate suffering, .. the ‘cause and effect’ principle dictates…. Basically, do good, and good will happen for you…. [this is very simplistic, but you get the idea]. Through good deeds [good Karma], we realize our ”Selfless-ness” and are able to achieve Moksha.
---On Happiness: We believe… as this ties in with Nirvana, Enlightenment would dictate, that to be truly HAPPY in life, one must reduce/give up worldly desires.. Happiness is inversely proportional to desires.

On Moksha: Upon achieving Nirvana [whether in mid life, through meditation, …. Or at the end of one’s life, through good Karma], we are Enlightened to the Existence of Brahman…. And REALIZE the full extent of what It truly entails. We are at peace with ourselves, and our surroundings, and others…. And the Universe in general. We shed the mortal coil indefinitely, and cease to exist as individuals [which, of course, we never really were.. and never really existed as such, according to Vedic Philosophy] and flow back unto the Ultimate Reality and Exist solely as The One.

^^^ This is the goal of EVERY Hindu, not just the Vedic followers.
There have been some complaints that Hinduism’s version of God is impersonal. We see “impersonal” as a very human emotion….. emotions we ourselves are trying to detach….. emotions are elements of life, and again, life involves suffering. BUT, having said that… we DO see the need for humans to be able to LATCH onto something that IS very much “personable” in nature, to get our strength from. This is where we feel men like Buddha come in. Where as, say a Christian looks to Jesus and God Through Jesus as support, the ‘average Joe’ Hindu might look to Buddha, or to Krishna… These are Men, who we believe, ON EARTH, in their lives, achieved Nirvana, and as exceptional human beings as they were, were able to become an embodiment…… or …… an ‘agent’ of The One. They were…… ‘focused’ from the Ultimate Reality…. Into the Men… into the visual manifestations we saw them in History. Furthermore, we don’t limit ourselves to saying that ONLY Buddha or Krishna was able to do this, we believe ALL great founders of religion were ones who had achieved Nirvana, so we believe All Paths lead to The One. And it is our DUTY to protect this very believe as well [among others].

There’s so much more I can talk about…. But if there’s something specific you want to know, just ask.

[:::knockout:::]

from the early 80's to this very day, the indian government is responsible of massacring over 100,000 Sikhs, around 75,000 Muslims, and 50,000 other minorities including Dalits and Christians..

go to the villages in Punjab, u will see how terrible the situation is
Not bad, considering most Islamic countries would torment 10x that many poeple in an hour.

[PrOfFaSeE]

I get you. Why can't or why don't you eat meat on tuedays?
thats a day of prayer for me

[Felonius Monk]

well...i dont knw...but she's not allowed to eat it because of her religion....so if her friends eat meat ....arent they going against religion?? :dunno:
enlighten me
No. Like a person might wear a hijab and say its because of their religion. Doesn't mean those who dont are going against it.

Hinduism has zero social or political laws. Those laws/practices are formed by communities as what they believe to be in accordance with Hindu philosophy.

[sikhsta]

Not bad, considering most Islamic countries would torment 10x that many poeple in an hour.


you are right about that tho, ill give you that much

but its rather interesting that a Sikh Gurdwara, that had been near the scene of a bombing in Iraq by US troops is being rebuilt by Sunni Muslims whom respect the Sikh ideals as well as Guru Nanak Dev Ji's teachings.

[Space-Cowboy]

yes they do not try to force- convert, but the indian government is vast majority Hindutva, or extremist Hindu.


There is peace amongst Hindus and Sikhs now in India, they generally consider each other brothers.... and there's quite a bit of intermarriages between Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Jains... Most Sikhs in Punjab are generally happy with the current government.

The PM is Sikh, and he's quite possibly the best PM India has had, I wish to see him remain the PM.

well...i dont knw...but she's not allowed to eat it because of her religion....so if her friends eat meat ....arent they going against religion??
enlighten me

There are some subgroups of Hinduism that don't eat meat, but over all there's nothing that says 'it's not allowed'.


from the early 80's to this very day, the indian government is responsible of massacring over 100,000 Sikhs, around 75,000 Muslims, and 50,000 other minorities including Dalits and Christians..

go to the villages in Punjab, u will see how terrible the situation is

That happened back in the 80s, the govt. was different back then, it's not happening that way anymore. I have Sikh friends living in India.... in Punjab... if it was so bad, they would have told me.

[:::knockout:::]

you are right about that tho, ill give you that much

but its rather interesting that a Sikh Gurdwara, that had been near the scene of a bombing in Iraq by US troops is being rebuilt by Sunni Muslims whom respect the Sikh ideals as well as Guru Nanak Dev Ji's teachings.

Are these the same Sunni Muslims that were starting wars and killing millions of Hindus/Christians/Jews/etc throughout time?

[Felonius Monk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

[hakaanpathan]

Hindus are religious, however, they are not fanatics who go around trying to convert the world through mental/physical force. Hinduism is a way of life that poeple find themselves.

As for the poeple on this site... If youre Muslim, you probably shouldnt be here since the majority of this site is focused on External Beauty, sex, alcoholism, etc. In addition, Ive noticed that there are quite a few retards that try to claim that they are religious Muslims, however, they enjoy being penetrated by Hindu Boyfriends while getting drunk on wine/bacardi (this is in reference to what is displayed on the mainsite).

PS - Reading the Quoron doesnt make you a "good" Muslim, following the priciples of humanity does.

It's the book of Truth. It's proof that there is only one God.

Reading the quran does make you a better person. It's made a lot of people become a better person- unlike those being completley brainwashed and thinking its ok to kill innocent lives. It's God telling us how to live in this life, how to give charity, how to feed the poor, how to be good to parents and people in general.

[sikhsta]

Are these the same Sunni Muslims that were starting wars and killing millions of Hindus/Christians/Jews/etc throughout time?


yes, but the hate against any person and/ or group does not start with religion at all.

that is just an excuse to rally the people to support your cause if you're a leader.

its all politics and land-related greed

[Space-Cowboy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

:slap2: I went through all that trouble of posting and all you do is bring this wiki site!

[Geezer]

http://blogster.com/host/images/67660649390.jpg

wtf that's a boob tube and a half right there

[Felonius Monk]

:slap2: I went through all that trouble of posting and all you do is bring this wiki site!
Lol. Its a little more detailed and explains the preliminary concept of monism, which a lot of people dont get. Most of what you posted is useless unless you understand monism.

[Space-Cowboy]

Lol. Its a little more detailed and explains the preliminary concept of monism, which a lot of people dont get. Most of what you posted is useless unless you understand monism.


What do you mean? .... If you read my post... maybe in a round about way..... I believe I actually explained Monism. Hence The One-ness principle.

[Walktheline]

Lol. Its a little more detailed and explains the preliminary concept of monism, which a lot of people dont get. Most of what you posted is useless unless you understand monism.


omg your sig confuses me. omg. omg.

[Felonius Monk]

What do you mean? .... If you read my post... maybe in a round about way..... I believe I actually explained Monism. Hence The One-ness principle.
Yeah. Just saying it needs to be a little more explicit. Like people have pre conceptions of the various deities as individual gods, not manifestations of aspects. They dont readily grasp the concept when you say "everything is one". Most religions say God is one/God is everywhere. There is a distinction here and I just thought it needed to be stressed. Hinduism believes in an all-pervasive god/force/spirit. Not a conscious all knowing God who watches and judges as an entity seperate from you.

[Space-Cowboy]

Yeah. Just saying it needs to be a little more explicit. Like people have pre conceptions of the various deities as individual gods, not manifestations of aspects. They dont readily grasp the concept when you say "everything is one". Most religions say God is one/God is everywhere. There is a distinction here and I just thought it needed to be stressed. Hinduism believes in an all-pervasive god/force/spirit. Not a conscious all knowing God who watches and judges as an entity seperate from you.

Yup :D....... Creation and Creator are One and the Same :idea:

[Felonius Monk]

omg your sig confuses me. omg. omg.
Cool eh. Roughly indicative of my playing style. All wrong.

[Walktheline]

Cool eh. Roughly indicative of my playing style. All wrong.


you still owe me a recording.
Yes, you do.

[Felonius Monk]

you still owe me a recording.
Yes, you do.
Yes I do. I still have to pick up a USB interface and cables though. I only have a laptop and it only has a mic in. No line in.

You'll get it though. I promise.

[Walktheline]

Yes I do. I still have to pick up a USB interface and cables though. I only have a laptop and it only has a mic in. No line in.

You'll get it though. I promise.


sweet.

[Sikh4Lyfe]

So you want Hindu's to make topics about if its ok to have threesomes or if eating Mcdonalds will send them to hell?

Yeah...thats CARING..

[Indian1986]

yes they do not try to force- convert, but the indian government is vast majority Hindutva, or extremist Hindu.

Indian government has never been hindutva or extremist hindu.The fact is indian government is corrupt and it does not care about anyone be it hindu,sikh,muslim or christian.....It is all vote bank politics.Our country is governed on the bases of vote bank politics. Indian Government has become so selfish, that for commercial gain its willing to forget about the millions of people who are dying of poverty every day.Congress driven by their hidden agendas and selfish motives are now seeking to assuage (win votes)the sentiments of the Sikh community that's why we have a sikh prime minister now. Every one in india knows that we didn't elect Manmohan, he was nominated as a compromise after sonia backed down. Operation Bluestar and the carnage of 1984 was done by congress which claims to be a secular party...The same party that introduced caste based job reservations for "backward" castes, regardless of merit and even after 59 years of Independence neither the government could uplift the downtrodden .The result is that you have a lot of upper caste hindus from poor backgrounds who are unemployed and illiterate...anything as high as 50% is not reservation but exploitation.For a country that has adopted secularism, any practice still based on religion/caste, isn’t it against the very principle they adopted ?In places like bihar the upper caste hindus have fled that place because of the threats they used to recieve from the government.That's why bihar is in shambles today. What is more funny is that some upper caste "liberal" Hindus in congress, too, support the policy of reservation...If it was a extremist hindu government it would have done something for the millions of kashmiri pandits that got slaughtered in kashmir or the ones who got displaced.....Now what has the "hindu" government done for these hindus ?

[foreverconfused]

Indian government has never been hindutva or extremist hindu.The fact is indian government is corrupt and it does not care about anyone be it hindu,sikh,muslim or christian.....It is all vote bank politics.Our country is governed on the bases of vote bank politics. Indian Government has become so selfish, that for commercial gain its willing to forget about the millions of people who are dying of poverty every day.Congress driven by their hidden agendas and selfish motives are now seeking to assuage (win votes)the sentiments of the Sikh community that's why we have a sikh prime minister now. Every one in india knows that we didn't elect Manmohan, he was nominated as a compromise after sonia backed down. Operation Bluestar and the carnage of 1984 was done by congress which claims to be a secular party...The same party that introduced caste based job reservations for "backward" castes, regardless of merit and even after 59 years of Independence neither the government could uplift the downtrodden .The result is that you have a lot of upper caste hindus from poor backgrounds who are unemployed and illiterate...anything as high as 50% is not reservation but exploitation.For a country that has adopted secularism, any practice still based on religion/caste, isn’t it against the very principle they adopted ?In places like bihar the upper caste hindus have fled that place because of the threats they used to recieve from the government.That's why bihar is in shambles today. What is more funny is that some upper caste "liberal" Hindus in congress, too, support the policy of reservation...If it was a extremist hindu government it would have done something for the millions of kashmiri pandits that got slaughtered in kashmir or the ones who got displaced.....Now what has the "hindu" government done for these hindus ?

thank you.

[bad_cheque]

So you want Hindu's to make topics about if its ok to have threesomes or if eating Mcdonalds will send them to hell?

Yeah...thats CARING..
:rofl:

Anyway, I'm Hindu and that's all I need to know.

Maybe its because we are not a religion that tries to convert people with thousands of justifications and incentives.

[Space-Cowboy]

:rofl:

Anyway, I'm Hindu and that's all I need to know.

Maybe its because we are not a religion that tries to convert people with thousands of justifications and incentives.

On top of which, people NEED [I can't stress this enough], to differentiate between Hinduism the Religion, and Vedism, the Philosophy.

For the Hindu practictioner, one looks to the Gita [I would suggest so]. For the Sage/Rishi/Monk.... they would consult the Vedanta..... The Vedas and The Upanishads.

[paulie walnuts]

Its because Hinduism only consists of core philosophical beliefs. There aren't any social or political laws. Only recommendations that facilitate living in accordance with the philosophy.co-sign.

[paulie walnuts]

On top of which, people NEED [I can't stress this enough], to differentiate between Hinduism the Religion, and Vedism, the Philosophy.

For the Hindu practictioner, one looks to the Gita [I would suggest so]. For the Sage/Rishi/Monk.... they would consult the Vedanta..... The Vedas and The Upanishads.though well-intentioned, you strike me as desperately seeking of abrahamist approval for your religion.

why is that?

[Space-Cowboy]

though well-intentioned, you strike me as desperately seeking of abrahamist approval for your religion.

why is that?

How so? It's not their 'approval', I seek, it's their understanding...... and to shed certain myths certain westerners have of eastern faiths, out of sheer ignorance...... dubbing them as pagans.. [and yes, that STILL goes on, in the minds of western hardliners, long after the arrival of Christian missionaries to the shores of India]...

I'm not out here to seek approval, I'm out here to kill ignorance.

[fratty]

How so? It's not their 'approval', I seek, it's their understanding...... and to shed certain myths certain westerners have of eastern faiths, out of sheer ignorance...... dubbing them as pagans.. [and yes, that STILL goes on, in the minds of western hardliners, long after the arrival of Christian missionaries to the shores of India]...

I'm not out here to seek approval, I'm out here to kill ignorance.

Only Christians see hindus as pagans what about muslims do they see us as brothers?

[paulie walnuts]

How so? It's not their 'approval', I seek, it's their understanding...... and to shed certain myths certain westerners have of eastern faiths, out of sheer ignorance...... dubbing them as pagans.. [and yes, that STILL goes on, in the minds of western hardliners, long after the arrival of Christian missionaries to the shores of India]...

I'm not out here to seek approval, I'm out here to kill ignorance.you are trying to propagate your customized, abrahamist-friendly version of hinduism...which i find to be wholly unrepresentative of reality and equally misleading.

at least 95% of hindus would be rightly considered to be heathenous and idolatrous pagans by a religious abrahamist. i don't know why you are so ashamed of this conspicuous reality.

the fact is that the term "hinduism" homogenizes a great variety of distinct, and often contradictory, religious philosophies and practices....and any given criticism is potentially both applicable and non-applicable to various religions within the hindu fold.

[ThomasMcCabe]

you are trying to propagate your customized, abrahamist-friendly version of hinduism.......and any given criticism is potentially both applicable and non-applicable to various religions within the hindu fold.co-sign

You should educate Indian1986 too.

[Space-Cowboy]

you are trying to propagate your customized, abrahamist-friendly version of hinduism...which i find to be wholly unrepresentative of reality and equally misleading.at least 95% of hindus would be rightly considered to be heathenous and idolatrous pagans by a religious abrahamist. i don't know why you are so ashamed of this conspicuous reality.

the fact is that the term "hinduism" homogenizes a great variety of distinct, and often contradictory, religious philosophies and practices....and any given criticism is potentially both applicable and non-applicable to various religions within the hindu fold.


And what is this 'abrahmist-friendly' version? There is no 'customization' going on, if anything, the way I've described Hinduism goes very much opposite of what IS being propagated by western faiths. I've clearly outlined the Monism principle. I've VERY clearly, in all my posts, outline the non-dualistic philosophy, and the non differentiation of Creator and Creation, which westerners are VEHEMENTLY against. There's nothing 'misleading' an any of the information I've given. And you're right.... 95% of Hindus WOULD be 'heathenous'. But then again, I highly doubt, 95% of Hindus understand the Philosophy behind the religion in the first place.

And I'm not 'ashamed' of anything, in relation to our 'image'.... What I AM ashamed of is the fact that there ARE people who DON'T understand the Philosophy behind the religion...... that is a FACT. And to not know, and not appreciate the full extent of Vedic philosophy is a great dis-service to our way of life.

In terms of 'contradictory practices'... the fact is, each and every one of those practices, and the reasonings behind them, will find their true roots in the Philosophy..... The Vedic Philosophy is the same throughout.



I mean for godsakes, the fact that me and adren shared the same insights on Monism should be enough for you to understand that I'm not catering to the west by any stretch. I'm just 'telling it like it is'

and any given criticism is potentially both applicable and non-applicable to various religions within the hindu fold.

'religions' yes.... but the criticisms that go towards the philosophy behind the 'sects' are very much unfounded, and I'm here to unravel those myths.

[Space-Cowboy]

And I still want to know what you think an 'Abrahmist friendly' version of Hinduism is.

You mean that I don't pray to deities, and acceptance of the pantheon?.... You're right I personally don't..... I don't find it useful, but I see nothing wrong with others doing it. The 'abrahmic' version would be if I outright called it 'idolatry' which I don't.

And when the west does, I correct them because, while I don't agree with the Pantheon, I do see the need for others to do so, and I explain to westerners who don't know better, the theory, and the implication of what it truly means. Not because I want them to accept it in judgment, but because I believe that if they ARE going to judge it, they should do so, wholly in its principle merits, and not what THEY 'perceive' it to be.

[Irreligious Left]

And you're right.... 95% of Hindus WOULD be 'heathenous'. But then again, I highly doubt, 95% of Hindus understand the Philosophy behind the religion in the first place.

What I AM ashamed of is the fact that there ARE people who DON'T understand the Philosophy behind the religion...... that is a FACT. And to not know, and not appreciate the full extent of Vedic philosophy is a great dis-service to our way of life.

Are saying that you are ashamed of this 95% of Hindus (several hundred million people!) who don't understand the philosophy?

What should some subsistence farmer in Bihar be expected to know "non-dualism" and "non-differentiation between the Creator and creation" anyway?

[ThomasMcCabe]

And I still want to know what you think an 'Abrahmist friendly' version of Hinduism is.
A version that refuses to realize the fact Hinduism is open to interpretation to a very large degree and that in Hinduism, there are different versions of the truth.

[Space-Cowboy]

Are saying that you are ashamed of this 95% of Hindus (several hundred million people!) who don't understand the philosophy?
Obviously it's an exaggeration..... But they [who are capable] should atleast take the time to KNOW what the philosophy is. The sad sad fact is, that rural dwellers [many not all] actually think 'Ganesh' is a real, tangible thing. When deities were NEVER meant to be this way. No one's asking you to be a scholar/philosopher.... but a basic understanding could go a long way.


What should some subsistence farmer in Bihar be expected to know "non-dualism" and "non-differentiation between the Creator and creation" anyway?

And THAT is why the Gita was brought to the farmer.... to use the Analogy within the Gita to explain the broader science of the Vedas and Upanishad. But, they should at least have some idea in the back of their minds that enlighten them to the fact that the story of Mahabharata shouldn't be taken literally, but on the otherhand, be dissected to unravel the moral truths that lie within.

And like I said, believe me at how you'd be surprised of people who ACTUALLY think Ganesh exist. And, no, I'm not holding it against them, but the fact is, they ONLY take this at face value without any care to the broader imlications.

[Space-Cowboy]

A version that refuses to realize the fact Hinduism is open to interpretation to a very large degree and that in Hinduism, there are different versions of the truth.

I never said Hinduism the Religion wasn't, that's the basis of the beauty that IS Hinduism. But all these interpretations DO have one clear message of the Vedanta behind it. This message in itself is a VERY complicated one, but it is ONE Philosophy.... ONE thought.

[Irreligious Left]

Obviously it's an exaggeration..... But they [who are capable] should atleast take the time to KNOW what the philosophy is. The sad sad fact is, that rural dwellers [many not all] actually think 'Ganesh' is a real, tangible thing. When deities were NEVER meant to be this way. No one's asking you to be a scholar/philosopher.... but a basic understanding could go a long way.



And THAT is why the Gita was brought to the farmer.... to use the Analogy within the Gita to explain the broader science of the Vedas and Upanishad. But, they should at least have some idea in the back of their minds that enlighten them to the fact that the story of Mahabharata shouldn't be taken literally, but on the otherhand, be dissected to unravel the moral truths that lie within.

And like I said, believe me at how you'd be surprised of people who ACTUALLY think Ganesh exist. And, no, I'm not holding it against them, but the fact is, they ONLY take this at face value without any care to the broader imlications.


If they have bhakti, then isn't that all that matters?

[ThomasMcCabe]

This message in itself is a VERY complicated one, but it is ONE Philosophy.... ONE thought.
I am not so sure. There are still tribes in the India which follow religions very similar to the 'Earth Mother' types of religions that flourished during the dawn of civilization. What will you call these people? Hindus or not?

[Space-Cowboy]

If they have bhakti, then isn't that all that matters?

A while back, someone once asked me [someone from the forums, a nonHindu]: What do the Hindus believe in..... I don't want a complicated answer, just give me the jist.

I said: Peace, Love, and Happiness for all.




Which is fine.... ......but it pains me to see that they, [the farmers] will never understand the beauty BEHIND is bhakti. And yes, I suppose going his entire life without knowing the Vedas isn't exactly the end of the world.... but MY argument has always been that Knowledge and Wisdom is and End in itself. And yes..... I DO want them to at least experience the All Encompassing nature of the Philosophy...... a glimpse of which, is given in the Vedas.

^^^And that's not me as a person who's deeply religious..... I've said many times I'm not religious, I'm spiritual [something very much in tune with what the Philosophy is trying to convey]...... BUT, I DO speak as a person proud of my HINDU [the religion and the ensuing culture] heritage. And it's important in that respect, to glance at the Gita.... if even for a little bit, to understand WHAT our culture is all about. The farmer LIVES the culture everyday...... but at somepoint, I'm sure... even the farmer might be curious about what our tradition entails.

[Space-Cowboy]

I am not so sure. There are still tribes in the India which follow religions very similar to the 'Earth Mother' types of religions that flourished during the dawn of civilization. What will you call these people? Hindus or not?

They are Vedic. That's what I've been trying to say all along. And the VEDAS recognize that these PEOPLE may not see themselves as Vedic. But the Vedas recognize them so. This 'all encompassing, all paths, leading to the same Source'.

So: Within the worship of that Earth Mother........ through 'Gaia' [the earth mother? :sarb: ] They find the Spiritual Balance..... as to Christians through Christ, and so on. The Spiritual Balance is the crux of the Philosophy..... the path to Brahman, The One.

[Space-Cowboy]

I am not so sure. There are still tribes in the India which follow religions very similar to the 'Earth Mother' types of religions that flourished during the dawn of civilization. What will you call these people? Hindus or not?


off topic: And I'm not sure how that bit is important... but Vedic Philosophy was around since the dawn of civilization as well.

[ThomasMcCabe]

off topic: And I'm not sure how that bit is important... but Vedic Philosophy was around since the dawn of civilization as well.Well that is something I cannot believe to be true. :)

[ThomasMcCabe]

They are Vedic. I dont think that they see themselves as so. They most probably dont know what the Vedas are. :)

[Space-Cowboy]

Well that is something I cannot believe to be true. :)

Why not? Vedic Philosophies, as sighted by many archeologists, anthropologists, and historians alike, as one of the world's OLDEST 'Thoughts'. Arguably THE oldest. There have been scripts dating back well over 6000 years, with an oral tradition MUCH older.


Now.... the oldest 'form of worship' in the world is neither the worship of 'Earth Mother' nor Brahman. I'd imagine it would be something along the lines of 'Nature'....... or some 'Great Spirit' guiding volcanos and hurricanes, and storms and fertility, etc.



But There is STRIKING similarities between Vedism and Wiccan, and Native American faiths, which, many believe all drew from ONE Vedic sources well over 10,000 years ago.

[Space-Cowboy]

I dont think that they see themselves as so. They most probably dont know what the Vedas are. :)


Well I just said that THEY may not..... just like a Christian wouldn't see himself as a Vedic. But the VEDAS see them as so.

[Space-Cowboy]

And btw, if we want to get down the the basics of.... say... what should be practiced by children everywhere... I don't think I've said anything contradictory to 'Peace, Love, and Happiness for all'... Which I believe is one of the goals of spirituality in THIS life, this miniscule Universe..... in THIS form,

[fratty]

Maybe Ganesh is real? Why deny someone right to believe that?

[bad_cheque]

though well-intentioned, you strike me as desperately seeking of abrahamist approval for your religion.

why is that?
Agreed!

[bad_cheque]

If they have bhakti, then isn't that all that matters?
You answered the thread in one simple sentence. :salut:

[Space-Cowboy]

Maybe Ganesh is real? Why deny someone right to believe that?

1) No, Ganesh isn't.

2) I'm not denying anyone the right to believe anything. Quite opposite, infact.

Agreed!

You answered the thread in one simple sentence.

Maybe you should read my responses first and tell me what part you didn't understand.

[bad_cheque]

1) No, Ganesh isn't.

2) I'm not denying anyone the right to believe anything. Quite opposite, infact.



Maybe you should read my responses first and tell me what part you didn't understand.
This guy should be excommunicated.

[Space-Cowboy]

This guy should be excommunicated.

:salut: I speak ONLY the Truth. [p.s, 'excommunication' is not an element of the Vedas ;) .... so you're stuck with me.]

[bad_cheque]

:salut: I speak ONLY the Truth. [p.s, 'excommunication' is not an element of the Vedas ;) .... so you're stuck with me.]
Yeah but you are still getting excommunicate O' Truthful Vedic Master. I'm going to bring a Brahmin and proceed with your excommunication.

[paulie walnuts]

And what is this 'abrahmist-friendly' version? There is no 'customization' going on, if anything, the way I've described Hinduism goes very much opposite of what IS being propagated by western faiths. I've clearly outlined the Monism principle. I've VERY clearly, in all my posts, outline the non-dualistic philosophy, and the non differentiation of Creator and Creation, which westerners are VEHEMENTLY against. There's nothing 'misleading' an any of the information I've given. And you're right.... 95% of Hindus WOULD be 'heathenous'. But then again, I highly doubt, 95% of Hindus understand the Philosophy behind the religion in the first place.

And I'm not 'ashamed' of anything, in relation to our 'image'.... What I AM ashamed of is the fact that there ARE people who DON'T understand the Philosophy behind the religion...... that is a FACT. And to not know, and not appreciate the full extent of Vedic philosophy is a great dis-service to our way of life.

In terms of 'contradictory practices'... the fact is, each and every one of those practices, and the reasonings behind them, will find their true roots in the Philosophy..... The Vedic Philosophy is the same throughout.


I mean for godsakes, the fact that me and adren shared the same insights on Monism should be enough for you to understand that I'm not catering to the west by any stretch. I'm just 'telling it like it is'



'religions' yes.... but the criticisms that go towards the philosophy behind the 'sects' are very much unfounded, and I'm here to unravel those myths.dude, i've seen you constantly shouting about "ONE GOD" and "ONE BELIEF" and all that shit in defense against mussalman onslaughts. it's a crock.

the religion of an advaita-vedantist guru in rishikesh is not that of, say, a standard-issue bhopali chaiwallah.

our chaiwallah doesn't give half a shit about realizing the atman, penetrating the maya, or purging desire from the mind...he simply offers fruits and flowers to his household deity a few times a week and lovingly asks for enough good fortune to pay off his loans and feed his kids. that is the beginning and end of his religion.

i think his religion is just fine, and i am not ashamed of it. i haven't made it my mission to convince westerners that his religion doesn't exist (or is not the real deal), and that the rishikesh guru's impressive and intellectually-rich philosophical outlook is the real hinduism.

there is nothing to be embarrassed about. the very people you seek approval from believe in all kinds of silly ass shit - often moreso than the stuff that our ignorant hindu villagers believe in. i certainly can't that say i view creationist beliefs to be more rational than even the goofiest of hindu beliefs.

[Walktheline]

peace the funk out. smoke a joint.

[bad_cheque]

peace the funk out. smoke a joint.
That's not very Hinduistic or even Vedic :rolleyes:

[Walktheline]

That's not very Hinduistic or even Vedic :rolleyes:


yeah it is.

[ThomasMcCabe]

Why not? Vedic Philosophies, as sighted by many archeologists, anthropologists, and historians alike, as one of the world's OLDEST 'Thoughts'. Arguably THE oldest. There have been scripts dating back well over 6000 years, with an oral tradition MUCH older.
One of the finest oldest thoughts? Yes. The pinnacle of Indian philosophical thought? More probable than not. 6000 years? You are losing me there. Dawn of civilization? Errr no. And the Vedas were not around during the time of the beginning of the Indus Valley civilization. Atleast not in their present form. That is what I know.

[ThomasMcCabe]

That's not very Hinduistic or even Vedic :rolleyes:
Oh, you should visit the Kumbh mela. LOL

[bad_cheque]

Oh, you should visit the Kumbh mela. LOL
That's for tourism.

[ThomasMcCabe]

That's for tourism.
Rubbish.

[Space-Cowboy]

dude, i've seen you constantly shouting about "ONE GOD" and "ONE BELIEF" and all that shit in defense against mussalman onslaughts. it's a crock.
Then YOU'VE missed my entire point then.... Yes, there's ONE Philosophy.... but where have I used it against this 'onslaught' as you call it. ..... if you mean to educate.... the quote: mussalman /quote then, yes, it's my right and duty to inform them of what our Spirituality is about....... or would you rather they go on thinking the land of Bharat is one giant cesspool of 'cow urine drinkers' <--- That's an exact quote, I'm not even joking.


the religion of an advaita-vedantist guru in rishikesh is not that of, say, a standard-issue bhopali chaiwallah.

our chaiwallah doesn't give half a shit about realizing the atman, penetrating the maya, or purging desire from the mind...he simply offers fruits and flowers to his household deity a few times a week and lovingly asks for enough good fortune to pay off his loans and feed his kids.

And I've never said that there's anything wrong with that.. I'm stating what the Vedas say about it, is that, whether or not bhopali chaiwallah believes it, is that it flows to the same source.


i think his religion is just fine, and i am not ashamed of it. i haven't made it my mission to convince westerners that his religion doesn't exist (or is not the real deal), and that the rishikesh guru's impressive and intellectually-rich philosophical outlook is the [i]real hinduism.

Where did I say it 'wasn't' ? ..... All I'm saying is, perhaps he might want to learn about the deeper issues surrounding the Vedas, in the CONTEXT of his religion...... if he so chose.


there is nothing to be embarrassed about. the very people you seek approval from believe in all kinds of silly ass shit - often moreso than the stuff that our ignorant hindu villagars believe in. i certainly can't that say i view creationist beliefs to be more rational than even the goofiest of hindu beliefs.

Well I've never agreed with Adam and Eve, if that's what you're referring to....
... but I've already stated, I'm not here to seek approval, I'm here to correct misguided westerners about how they view us. In terms of being embarrassed.... it's not so much embarrassment as it is bewilderment that there aren't that many that are willing to go beyond the 'worship' stage, into the 'contemplation' stage. I'm not saying everyone should turn into a guru....... But shouldn't they at least try to see 'what lies beyond' the literal stage?

[I]The analogy that I'd draw is Shakespeare's plays....... as stories, they're very beautiful and visually inspiring..... but don't they become EVEN MORE inspiring when one reads between the lines of every verse, every act, every scene, to unravel some of the hidden truths?

We as humans are curious by nature...... so shouldn't it naturally follow, that we should be curious about things such as this?

[bad_cheque]

Rubbish.
Ask Walktheline.

[Space-Cowboy]

One of the finest oldest thoughts? Yes. The pinnacle of Indian philosophical thought? More probable than not. 6000 years? You are losing me there. Dawn of civilization? Errr no. And the Vedas were not around during the time of the beginning of the Indus Valley civilization. Atleast not in their present form. That is what I know.

Nope. :idea:

Indus Valley: 3000 B.C. Vedas [lets assume, with AMT, that they came out of India], even then, sources will cite them of having an oral history of thousands of years prior.

The people whom we now call Indo-Aryans that migrated in, have had the philosophies with them for quite some time. .... The most prominent theory is that they were developed in the Steppes, many thousands of years prior.

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2006/1-3/17_vedas.shtml

The Vedas are the divinely revealed and most revered scriptures, sruti, of Hinduism, likened to the Torah (1,200 bce), Bible New Testament (100 ce), Koran (630 ce) or Zend Avesta (600 bce). Four in number, Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharva, the Vedas include over 100,000 verses. Oldest portions may date back as far as 6,000 bce.

[foreverconfused]

dude, i've seen you constantly shouting about "ONE GOD" and "ONE BELIEF" and all that shit in defense against mussalman onslaughts. it's a crock.

the religion of an advaita-vedantist guru in rishikesh is not that of, say, a standard-issue bhopali chaiwallah.

our chaiwallah doesn't give half a shit about realizing the atman, penetrating the maya, or purging desire from the mind...he simply offers fruits and flowers to his household deity a few times a week and lovingly asks for enough good fortune to pay off his loans and feed his kids. that is the beginning and end of his religion.

i think his religion is just fine, and i am not ashamed of it. i haven't made it my mission to convince westerners that his religion doesn't exist (or is not the real deal), and that the rishikesh guru's impressive and intellectually-rich philosophical outlook is the real hinduism.

there is nothing to be embarrassed about. the very people you seek approval from believe in all kinds of silly ass shit - often moreso than the stuff that our ignorant hindu villagars believe in. i certainly can't that say i view creationist beliefs to be more rational than even the goofiest of hindu beliefs.

i agree with absolutely everything you've said, especially that last part.

[rex_maximus]

This guy should be excommunicated.

sure hope you're kidding. that kind of non-tolerant tone is the last thing we need in hinduism.

I think space cowboy is pointing out that there exists a distinction between Hinduism, the religion...and its precursor, the Vedic philosophy. As such, it is fairly accurate to say that a good % of present day Hindus have little understanding of the Vedic teachings.

Does that make them any less spiritual...or disconnected with the core ideals?

Depends.

On the one hand, the very reason for the evolution of the Vedic philosophy into the largely mytholgical religion of Hinduism...was comprehensibility for the common masses. As such, a truly devout Hindu is able to access the teachings of the Vedas 'via' Hinduism...albeit in an indirect way.

For the average joe Hindu such as the Bihari chaiwala paulie taked about earlier...there is clearly a huge gap in his understanding of deep level Hindu ideology, let alone Vedic philosophy. Of course, his poverty and limited acumen restrict him from learning more...but that still doesn't rule out the fact that he is not well aware of his religion, or its base philosophy.

Fact remains...majority of the Hindus do not probe deeper than Hindu mythos and culture. That is by definition what makes them 'Hindus'....since they subscribe to the religious offspring of the Vedic philosophy. This is not to say that they are 'inferior' to those who posses knowledge and understanding of the Vedic teachings. However, it is true that the Vedic teachings are far more detailed and esoteric than the Hindu doctrine. Indeed, Vedism is the source, Hinduism is the derivitive.

[Space-Cowboy]

i agree with absolutely everything you've said, especially that last part.

Well like I said, I'm not seeking 'approval' of the west [as he's accusing me of] by any means.

[foreverconfused]

Well like I said, I'm not seeking 'approval' of the west [as he's accusing me of] by any means.

i don't think you're trying to seek approval from the west.. but it annoys me when people with creationist beliefs poke fun at hindu mythology, as if their understanding of the world is any more logical.

you do make a good point - a lot of hindus are excessively ritualistic. study of the vedas should be encouraged, but at the end of the day, prayer to ganesh by a poor farmer is just as valid a method of reaching god as meditation..

[bad_cheque]

sure hope you're kidding. that kind of non-tolerant tone is the last thing we need in hinduism.

I think space cowboy is pointing out that there exists a distinction between Hinduism, the religion...and its precursor, the Vedic philosophy. As such, it is fairly accurate to say that a good % of present day Hindus have little understanding of the Vedic teachings.

Does that make them any less spiritual...or disconnected with the core ideals?

Depends.

On the one hand, the very reason for the evolution of the Vedic philosophy into the largely mytholgical religion of Hinduism...was comprehensibility for the common masses. As such, a truly devout Hindu is able to access the teachings of the Vedas 'via' Hinduism...albeit in an indirect way.

For the average joe Hindu such as the Bihari chaiwala paulie taked about earlier...there is clearly a huge gap in his understanding of deep level Hindu ideology, let alone Vedic philosophy. Of course, his poverty and limited acumen restrict him from learning more...but that still doesn't rule out the fact that he is not well aware of his religion, or its base philosophy.

Fact remains...majority of the Hindus do not probe deeper than Hindu mythos and culture. That is by definition what makes them 'Hindus'....since they subscribe to the religious offspring of the Vedic philosophy. This is not to say that they are 'inferior' to those who posses knowledge and understanding of the Vedic teachings. However, it is true that the Vedic teachings are far more detailed and esoteric than the Hindu doctrine. Indeed, Vedism is the source, Hinduism is the derivitive.
Yes Genius.

Also great to see you accepting Hinduism as a monotheistic religion.

Please excuse my lack of acumen and intolerance.

[ThomasMcCabe]

Ask Walktheline.
lol

[Space-Cowboy]

i don't think you're trying to seek approval from the west.. but it annoys me when people with creationist beliefs poke fun at hindu mythology, as if their understanding of the world is any more logical.

you do make a good point - a lot of hindus are excessively ritualistic. study of the vedas should be encouraged, but at the end of the day, prayer to ganesh by a poor farmer is just as valid a method of reaching god as meditation..

Oh I agree,


and about your second paragraph, [I personally don't believe in methodical rituals and the sort] but I have no problem with others doing so. And I am not even saying 'excessive' either, by any stretch... I just think, at some point, maybe the farmer, ALONG WITH, his rituals, might want to learn of the concepts behind the practices...

[rex_maximus]

Yes Genius.

Also great to see you accepting Hinduism as a monotheistic religion.

Please excuse my lack of acumen and intolerance.

interesting. i don't believe i typed the word 'monotheistic', or alluded to it anywhere in my post. perhaps it was subliminal.

[Space-Cowboy]

Yes Genius.

Also great to see you accepting Hinduism as a monotheistic religion.

Please excuse my lack of acumen and intolerance.


Vedic Philosophy is 'Monistic' in nature. Hinduism as a religion is "Monotheistic" AND "Pantheistic" [sp?] [not Polytheistic].

Polytheism implies 'different gods'. Pantheism implies 'different aspects of the same God'.... which, as follows, also allows for Monotheism.

[bad_cheque]

Vedic Philosophy is 'Monistic' in nature. Hinduism as a religion is "Monotheistic" AND "Pantheistic" [sp?] [not Polytheistic].

Polytheism implies 'different gods'. Pantheism implies 'different aspects of the same God'.... which, as follows, also allows for Monotheism.
You don't know what you are talking about.

[rex_maximus]

Vedic Philosophy is 'Monistic' in nature. Hinduism as a religion is "Monotheistic" AND "Pantheistic" [sp?] [not Polytheistic].

Polytheism implies 'different gods'. Pantheism implies 'different aspects of the same God'.... which, as follows, also allows for Monotheism.

agreed.

[Space-Cowboy]

You don't know what you are talking about.


Um, actually, I do :idea:


http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1863/faq.html#not%20polytheistic

Hinduism says that there is one God. Just as a man is called "father" by this son, "husband" by his wife, "son" by this father, and so on, God is called by various names and worshipped in various forms depending on the mood and approach of the devotee. When God is worshipped to remove hurdles, He is worshipped as "Ganesha". When God is worshipped to bless with good understanding of art and science, He is worshipped as "Saraswathi", and so on. Similarly, when a devotee wants to worship God as mother, he may worship as "Kali". When a devotee wants to worship God as a child, he may worship as "Krishna". If a devotee wants to worship God as the formless, attributeless, transcedent being, he may worship as "Brahman". These are all to suit the various temperaments of the devotees. By all these various forms and names, the devotee very well knows that He is worshipping God only. So Hinduism is monotheistic

[foreverconfused]

Oh I agree,


and about your second paragraph, [I personally don't believe in methodical rituals and the sort] but I have no problem with others doing so. And I am not even saying 'excessive' either, by any stretch... I just think, at some point, maybe the farmer, ALONG WITH, his rituals, might want to learn of the concepts behind the practices...

well, i do think ritualism in some hindu communities is a bit excessive, especially in the rural areas. i have no problem with harmless rituals... but IMO there are some (a minority of course) that have no basis in hindu philosophy and may have harmful effects for both practitioners and society. i think more education should be provided.

[bad_cheque]

Um, actually, I do :idea:


http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1863/faq.html#not%20polytheistic
With respect to hinduism, you are mixing up everything and providing your own spin. There is nothing wrong with that. You can believe what you want to and I'll believe what I think is right.

I was only joking around earlier. Peace!

[Space-Cowboy]

With respect to hinduism, you are mixing up everything and providing your own spin. There is nothing wrong with that. You can believe what you want to and I'll believe what I think is right.
I was only joking around earlier. Peace!

I haven't mixed anything up at all, I can cite sources for everything I've state, which by the way, spin or no spin [I believe 'no spin'] pretty much agrees with you just said there that I bolded. In fact, it is one of the BEAUTIES of our faith..... pluralism in its practice. *I'm* merely bringing forth to the table [and this I DEFINITELY can cite sources] is that your belief, and mine, while superficially and seemingly different.... on a higher level, are VERY much, the same.

And yes, I knew you were joking ;)

[paulie walnuts]

Then YOU'VE missed my entire point then.... Yes, there's ONE Philosophy.... but where have I used it against this 'onslaught' as you call it. ..... if you mean to educate.... the quote: mussalman /quote then, yes, it's my right and duty[I personally feel, my DHARMA] to inform them of what our Spirituality is about....... or would you rather they go on thinking the land of Bharat is one giant cesspool of 'cow urine drinkers' <--- That's an exact quote, I'm not even joking.ok, so wouldn't the appropriate response be something along the lines of...."india is not a giant cesspool of cow-urine drinkers".

and that would be a true statement.
And I've never said that there's anything wrong with that.. I'm stating what the Vedas say about it, is that, whether or not bhopali chaiwallah believes it, is that it flows to the same source.right...and as with the vast majority of hindus, vedantic hinduism is not the religion of the chaiwallah.

if you want to portray the more profound hindu belief systems as the real hinduism, then be prepared to shed around 800 million from the hindu population count.

Where did I say it 'wasn't' ? ..... All I'm saying is, perhaps he might want to learn about the deeper issues surrounding the Vedas, in the CONTEXT of his religion...... if he so chose.if this is your intention, then it clearly lends itself to alternate interpretation...the basic premise of which being that those ignorant villagers have got it all wrong and that the true (and far more impressive) hinduism is actually _____."

that is apologetic nonsense. the more accurate clarification would be to say that most hindus follow simplified religions that do not encompass the profound philosophies espoused in vedic and upanishadic scriptures.

Well I've never agreed with Adam and Eve, if that's what you're referring to....
[I'm sure swarms of Abrahamists are going to raid this thread now,...] ... but I've already stated, I'm not here to seek approval, I'm here to correct misguided westerners about how they view us. In terms of being embarrassed.... it's not so much embarrassment as it is bewilderment that there aren't that many that are willing to go beyond the 'worship' stage, into the 'contemplation' stage. I'm not saying everyone should turn into a guru....... But shouldn't they at least try to see 'what lies beyond' the literal stage?hinduism does not lend itself to such rumination. during the time when the brahmin community was chiefly involved in religious administration, the rest of the population was not encouraged (read allowed) to study the vedas and other scriptures. since then, particularly as the brahmins have embraced alternative pursuits and professions, the religion has evolved into a tradition-based belief system that requires little to no knowledge of any major scripture. i agree that it is tragic, but what to do?

also, i think you are grossly overestimating the relationships between various hindu belief systems. it's not accurate to claim that all those simplistic hindu belief systems are rooted in vedanta and were consciously designed for layman consumption....but that is an entirely different discussion involving aryan vs. indigenous religions, their intertwining, etc.

We as humans are curious by nature...... so shouldn't it naturally follow, that we should be curious about things such as this?again, priorities for college kids with time to waste thinking about this stuff are very different from those of chaiwallahs and bonded laborers struggling to survive.

[rukus9]

And I still want to know what you think an 'Abrahmist friendly' version of Hinduism is.

You mean that I don't pray to deities, and acceptance of the pantheon?.... You're right I personally don't..... I don't find it useful, but I see nothing wrong with others doing it. The 'abrahmic' version would be if I outright called it 'idolatry' which I don't.

And when the west does, I correct them because, while I don't agree with the Pantheon, I do see the need for others to do so, and I explain to westerners who don't know better, the theory, and the implication of what it truly means. Not because I want them to accept it in judgment, but because I believe that if they ARE going to judge it, they should do so, wholly in its principle merits, and not what THEY 'perceive' it to be. the west does, I correct them because, while I don't agree with the Pantheon, I do see the need for others to do so, and I explain to westerners who don't know better, the theory, and the implication of what it truly means. Not because I want them to accept it in judgment, but because I believe that if they ARE going to judge it, they should do so, wholly in its principle merits, and not what THEY 'perceive' it to be.


Anywho I'm a johnny come lately on this forum and frankly I havent really read most of this thread but might aswell add a couple cents even if I restates stuff already said.
So hinduism can be seen as monotheistic...the patheon as space-cowboy talks about is really just one god brokendown into different forms mainly to allow people to relate and help them progress spiritually. Cause God is seen like this shapeless formless being and really can such a being be comprehended by our simple human minds? Anyways I'm a proud hindu and was brought up with the gita, guru granth shab ji, koran and bible in the house. God is one we just call him by a different name and see him in a different forms be it Krishna, Jesus, Bhudda or whatever or whoever. As for hindu not be religous... i don't think that is the case. Hinduism I feel allows for more diversity and such people express themselves differently. That also occurs in other religion but i think rules are more rigid in other religions so people can be more like he you don't do such and such so your not a good whatever... or something like that. I also thing a big prob with hinduism is a cultural thing were for many generation they were all about do as told and didn't question things and now with a generation that questions parents alot about stuff they are unable to answer. People get caught up to much in the show and ritualisitc side of things without know the real reason for it or whats the real dealio.. Anyways in conclusion hindus are religious they may not just be as boisterous of it on the forums and such. anyways thats about worth 5 cents... keep the change.. haha later

[Space-Cowboy]

ok, so wouldn't the appropriate response be something along the lines of...."india is not a giant cesspool of cow-urine drinkers".

and that would be a true statement.

Cuz that's worked so well with some of the haters on this site? You get frustrated too, don't deny it. It's this frustration that led adren@line's drive to post the many threads that he did too.


right...and as with the vast majority of hindus, vedantic hinduism is not the religion of the chaiwallah.

if you want to portray the more profound hindu belief systems as the real hinduism, then be prepared to shed around 800 million from the hindu population count.

I never said it WAS the belief of the chaiwallah.... what I'm saying is that the Philosophy states that the Chaiwallah's religion, and the Earth Worshipper's religion flow from the same source. ....When I'm asked to explain our Way on this site... it IS Vedic Philosophy that the others want explained. I'm COMFORTABLE with that because I'm a direct follower of that Philosophy... And when I'm being asked to explain my Way, why WOULDN'T I want to explain it in the 'profound belief system' regardless of what the 'practiced' version is. Now, I can go to appreciate the fact that you're trying to say, that while the Philosophy is all encompassing... it's not reflected in how it's practiced [I'm hoping that's what you're trying to say]...... my dilemma there is that to explain all the different 'practices..... i.e. sub groups' that exist, it would take me forever. So in that sense, I find it more efficient....... and infact, more fulfilling for myself, to go straight to the Philosophy. And finally to add to that, the average chaiwallah MAY have some idea that what the practice goes MUCH deeper, even though they may not know what it would be. I hope I've made myself clear in this regard with this paragraph, if not, ask and I'll explain further. In fact, I WANT you to ask so that I can explain further.

if this is your intention, then it clearly lends itself to alternate interpretation...the basic premise of which being that those ignorant villagers have got it all wrong and that the true (and far more impressive) hinduism is actually _____."

that is apologetic nonsense. the more accurate clarification would be to say that most hindus follow simplified religions that do not encompass the profound philosophies espoused in vedic and upanishadic scriptures.

I didn't say 'they got it all wrong'.... ..... I believe I WAS trying to say what you said in the second paragraph. But that still doesn't deny the fact that the simple villager may want to learn more. Go back to my Shakespeare example.

hinduism does not lend itself to such rumination. during the time when the brahmin community was chiefly involved in religious administration, the rest of the population was not encouraged (read allowed) to study the vedas and other scriptures. since then, particularly as the brahmins have embraced alternative pursuits and professions, the religion has evolved into a tradition-based belief system that requires little to no knowledge of any major scripture. i agree that it is tragic, but what to do?

Well that's one of my angers of Brahmins... directly rooted from their corruption of the Philosophy and the creation of a heirarchical and hereditary caste system-- When in reality The Varnas were NOT hereditary at all, and were synonomous with 'occupation'... i.e. designed to help the masses with 'karma and dharma'... [in the sense of 'action and duty']. --As an example of an accountant doing his DUTY.... [doing your taxes].... but his work is no less important than that of a doctor's. <-- And corrupt Brahmin factions TWISTED this INTO a heirarchical scheme..... quite unjustly. Again, an argument for another day.

also, i think you are grossly overestimating the relationships between various hindu belief systems. it's not accurate to claim that all those simplistic hindu belief systems are rooted in vedanta and were consciously designed for layman consumption....but that is an entirely different discussion involving aryan vs. indigenous religions, their intertwining, etc.

Argument for another day, but I doubt that I'm overestimating it at all. Sure they have taken mythological elements from indigenous and outside influences.... but the crux of the Vedas have remained intact within.


again, priorities for college kids with time to waste thinking about this stuff are very different from those of chaiwallahs and bonded laborers struggling to survive.

? :sarb:
I think that too is a different argument.... as we're introducing a whole new can of worms.... namely Marx's "Opiate of the masses". But even so.... I'm sure said chaiwallah IS curious... AND has the time to go to a temple every now and then... so why can't they 'teach' him some of the stuff at the temple that he might be curious about? Unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't cost anything to enter a temple and ask the priests a few questions the next time Durga Puja comes around... he's gonna be at the temple anyway.

[aditya]

Vedic Philosophy is 'Monistic' in nature. Hinduism as a religion is "Monotheistic" AND "Pantheistic" [sp?] [not Polytheistic].

Polytheism implies 'different gods'. Pantheism implies 'different aspects of the same God'.... which, as follows, also allows for Monotheism.
only advaita vedanta and abhaida shiva are monistic traditions.. dvaitic traditions are not completly monistic but only partially.

[Space-Cowboy]

most hindus follow simplified religions that do not encompass the profound philosophies espoused in vedic and upanishadic scriptures.

The other thing I want to note is that, if I were to delve into every single one of the simplified religions....... it would take me HOURS and HOURS and Pages and pages to explain each one.................... more importantly, I don't even KNOW about the stances of each groups. My family is Bengali..... all I'd be able to do is give the perspective of that which is generally practiced around West Bengal and BD.

[Felonius Monk]

dude, i've seen you constantly shouting about "ONE GOD" and "ONE BELIEF" and all that shit in defense against mussalman onslaughts. it's a crock.

the religion of an advaita-vedantist guru in rishikesh is not that of, say, a standard-issue bhopali chaiwallah.

our chaiwallah doesn't give half a shit about realizing the atman, penetrating the maya, or purging desire from the mind...he simply offers fruits and flowers to his household deity a few times a week and lovingly asks for enough good fortune to pay off his loans and feed his kids. that is the beginning and end of his religion.

i think his religion is just fine, and i am not ashamed of it. i haven't made it my mission to convince westerners that his religion doesn't exist (or is not the real deal), and that the rishikesh guru's impressive and intellectually-rich philosophical outlook is the real hinduism.

there is nothing to be embarrassed about. the very people you seek approval from believe in all kinds of silly ass shit - often moreso than the stuff that our ignorant hindu villagars believe in. i certainly can't that say i view creationist beliefs to be more rational than even the goofiest of hindu beliefs.
Werd. Even at the more 'sophisticated' practice of the religion, monism doesnt equate to monoethism in any way. The term is misleading. In fact the only people I've heard argue monoethism are the right wing RSS types.

[Space-Cowboy]

only advaita vedanta and abhaida shiva are monistic traditions.. dvaitic traditions are not completly monistic but only partially.

But that's the aspect of Hinduism that is Pluralism. What do you mean by 'partially'? They [Dvaitic] too make references to the One in that regard. They may apply a more dualistic approach.... but Advaita merely consolidates that under the Monistic principle.

[desipari4eva]

im hindu and i respect my religion im a vegetarian... and during festivals i always go to the temple does that help?

[Space-Cowboy]

Werd. Even at the more 'sophisticated' practice of the religion, monism doesnt equate to monoethism in any way. The term is misleading. In fact the only people I've heard argue monoethism are the right wing RSS types.

:sarb:
I don't believe I've EVER argued for a dualistic Monotheistic principle. I've always argued in favour of Monism.

[Space-Cowboy]

im hindu and i respect my religion im a vegetarian... and during festivals i always go to the temple does that help?

Yes.


edit: Certainly practice what's right for you... what you feel comfortable with..... all I'm saying is, there's definitely a deeper meaning that lies to all this..... if you're ever curious in persuing that aspect of it, that is.

[foreverconfused]

I think that too is a different argument.... as we're introducing a whole new can of worms.... namely Marx's "Opiate of the masses". But even so.... I'm sure said chaiwallah IS curious... AND has the time to go to a temple every now and then... so why can't they 'teach' him some of the stuff at the temple that he might be curious about? Unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't cost anything to enter a temple and ask the priests a few questions the next time Durga Puja comes around... he's gonna be at the temple anyway.

but not everyone is curious. many people, even the highly intelligent, don't care about the advanced philosophical aspects of their religion..

i'd even go so far as to say most people don't care.

[Space-Cowboy]

but not everyone is curious. many people, even the highly intelligent, don't care about the advanced philosophical aspects of their religion..

I'll concede to that fact... and I'm sure, this can be found in every religion. But the highly educated/rich, at some point...... possibly after retirement... may want to. Obviously, I'm not saying it's a definite... but I am possibility on the table.

[Vagrant]

it was meant to be a zinger

you should have shat your pants in anger by now

FYI ---> Anger is Haram (not allowed) in Islam, if you get angry and you are sitting down stand up, if you are standing up sit down, drink a glass of water.(references on that Hadith and the Quranic Verse on anger can be arranged upon request)

Oh and to answer the post the followers of any religion can be Judged based on their own individual actions so your question is a slippery slope to begin with.

[Felonius Monk]

:sarb:
I don't believe I've EVER argued for a dualistic Monotheistic principle. I've always argued in favour of Monism.
First, the minor point. The term monoetheism has come to acquire dualist connotations itself.

But anyway, monistic as the philosophy may be, even people who understand it rarely 'worship' the One as you call it. And all that continues to ignore the fact that the vast majority of Hindus worship multiple deities. The character of a religion is not determined solely by its scriptures and core beliefs. Its also determined by its practice. It could even be argued that vedism isnt theology at all. The term hinduism as an organized religion is meaningless without the plethora of gods/godesses. I don't know why this is so distasteful to people. Its no more idiotic than believing in one God (capital G).

[bad_cheque]

First, the minor point. The term monoetheism has come to acquire dualist connotations itself.

But anyway, monistic as the philosophy may be, even people who understand it rarely 'worship' the One as you call it. And all that continues to ignore the fact that the vast majority of Hindus worship multiple deities. The character of a religion is not determined solely by its scriptures and core beliefs. Its also determined by its practice. It could even be argued that vedism isnt theology at all. The term hinduism as an organized religion is meaningless without the plethora of gods/godesses. I don't know why this is so distasteful to people. Its no more idiotic than believing in one God (capital G).
I would blame it on a colonised mind.

[foreverconfused]

First, the minor point. The term monoetheism has come to acquire dualist connotations itself.

But anyway, monistic as the philosophy may be, even people who understand it rarely 'worship' the One as you call it. And all that continues to ignore the fact that the vast majority of Hindus worship multiple deities. The character of a religion is not determined solely by its scriptures and core beliefs. Its also determined by its practice. It could even be argued that vedism isnt theology at all. The term hinduism as an organized religion is meaningless without the plethora of gods/godesses. I don't know why this is so distasteful to people. Its no more idiotic than believing in one God (capital G).

but some practices may arise from misinterpretations of scriptures and core beliefs. they are not always a good way to measure the character of a religion.

[ThomasMcCabe]

Vedic Philosophy is 'Monistic' in nature. .... Monotheism.
Even if Hinduism is Polytheistic, so what?

If anyone has a problem with that, they can f*ck off. I think you are sub consciously trying to apologize for the beliefs of close to a billion people who call themselves Hindu. Stop it.

[aditya]

But that's the aspect of Hinduism that is Pluralism. What do you mean by 'partially'? They [Dvaitic] too make references to the One in that regard. They may apply a more dualistic approach.... but Advaita merely consolidates that under the Monistic principle.
there are many branches of advaita vedanta. 5 to be precise. there is shankra advaita, vashishta advaita, abhaida shiva, shakta advaita and vishnu advaita. these three are subtly different in there views on brahman athman and maya.... although all are advaitic traditions they are subtly different in ways that are much too deep to be described in a short online converstaion it takes intense study to understand.

[Space-Cowboy]

First, the minor point. The term monoetheism has come to acquire dualist connotations itself.
I agree, I was just articulating what Monotheism implied.


But anyway, monistic as the philosophy may be, even people who understand it rarely 'worship' the One as you call it.
I agree again. I have never tried to 'worship' The One..... .........in the most blunt and crudest sense of the word.... how would you "worship Yourself". <--- I think you know what I'm talking about there, in the Monistic [All Encompassing] context. What one DOES hope to do is to Self Actualize and affirm their wholly wrought Realization of The One. .... what is done through meditation and martial arts, by Monks for example [Nirvana if you will].


And all that continues to ignore the fact that the vast majority of Hindus worship multiple deities. The character of a religion is not determined solely by its scriptures and core beliefs. Its also determined by its practice. It could even be argued that vedism isnt theology at all.
Vedanta ISN'T Theology............. by ANY means..... and ... maybe my little quirk, but I personally get offended when people refer to it as a Theology, when it's not. It is an All Encompassing Philosophy...... literally means 'Knowledge'. And in no way implies to form a religious shell.


The term hinduism as an organized religion is meaningless without the plethora of gods/godesses. I don't know why this is so distasteful to people. Its no more idiotic than believing in one God (capital G).

There's so many reasons for this. Well, first off......... Hinduism's Pantheism is reflected in the gods .... as seen as different aspects of the one.

And, on religion in general.... I think people feel more secure about having God [capital G] as opposed to god[s]. Because gods can be readily disproven... there is no Valhalla in the clouds, there is no Zeus's palace atop Olympus, and there is no Indira's Kingdom atop the Himalayas. ..... where as God [G].... is far beyond that.... and has yet to be [visibly disproven]... [if possible]

ANOTHER reason, is that people feel more secure with ONE autherative figure sitting On High, rather than various different gods, squabbling with each other..... A sense of security, of a Divine plan.... of the fact that a Heaven with 'many gods' may [possibly] be more susceptable to chaos..... and that chaos can spill over unto earth.

[Space-Cowboy]

Even if Hinduism is Polytheistic, so what?

If anyone has a problem with that, they can f*ck off. I think you are sub consciously trying to apologize for the beliefs of close to a billion people who call themselves Hindu. Stop it.

Did you or did you not read the source that I cited?

[aditya]

there are also non advaitic traditions. Sankya yoga, nyaayka, nava nyaya ,vashishka to name a few each with its own particularites... these are just as "hindu" as advaitic traditions and are dvaitic in nature... then there are also nastic and anastic traditions of hinduism in which anastic traditions question even the authority fo the vedas such as the charvakas and to an extent budhism....

[ThomasMcCabe]

Did you or did you not read the source that I cited?
No I did not. I dont want to.

But what I am trying to tell you is that, dont most people dont care. Neither should you. If some one tries to belittle Hinduism on stupid grounds, then they are idiots. That's it.

[aditya]

im gonna go eat dinner.... i'll be back

[aditya]

No I did not. I dont want to.

But what I am trying to tell you is that, dont most people dont care. Neither should you. If some one tries to belittle Hinduism on stupid grounds, then they are idiots. That's it.
werd

[Space-Cowboy]

there are many branches of advaita vedanta. 5 to be precise. there is shankra advaita, vashishta advaita, abhaida shiva, shakta advaita and vishnu advaita. these three are subtly different in there views on brahman athman and maya.... although all are advaitic traditions they are subtly different in ways that are much too deep to be described in a short online converstaion it takes intense study to understand.


I'll concede to that... but only to the point that Brahman IS seen as a consolidating force in all of them. And, if we go by interpretation [of not just myself, but of people who HAVE devoted a lifetime's study] each one lends itself to describe this Metaphysical aspect to lead towards the same Truth, much in the same way of say Krishna to Arjun. But again, it doesn't 'GIVE' you the answers so much as merely showing you how you can go about doing what you need to do to find out the answers yourself.

[Felonius Monk]

but some practices may arise from misinterpretations of scriptures and core beliefs. they are not always a good way to measure the character of a religion.
They're not a good way to judge the scriptures. I'm sorry, but religion includes people, simply because religion is often ambiguous and people are responsible for the form it takes.

[bad_cheque]

there are also non advaitic traditions. Sankya yoga, nyaayka, nava nyaya ,vashishka to name a few each with its own particularites... these are just as "hindu" as advaitic traditions and are dvaitic in nature... then there are also nastic and anastic traditions of hinduism in which anastic traditions question even the authority fo the vedas such as the charvakas and to an extent budhism....
Good call!

Also each Veda has its own take on the universe.

[Space-Cowboy]

there are also non advaitic traditions. Sankya yoga, nyaayka, nava nyaya ,vashishka to name a few each with its own particularites... these are just as "hindu" as advaitic traditions and are dvaitic in nature... then there are also nastic and anastic traditions of hinduism in which anastic traditions question even the authority fo the vedas such as the charvakas and to an extent budhism....

I'm well aware of the existance of those as well.... But I don't think the Vedas have ever claimed themselves as 'the authority'... All they've done is given a glimpse of the truth... and given us certain suggestions on how we might go about finding the rest. And I find that to be another beauty of Hinduism....... a 'school of thought' within the philosophies, that question the philosophies themselves.....

*My personal belief is that they too will lead to the same Source anyway.

But what I am trying to tell you is that, dont most people dont care. Neither should you. If some one tries to belittle Hinduism on stupid grounds, then they are idiots. That's it.

... That's a passive attitude I'm not willing to take. I'm not going to badger them.... I'll only offer them a chance to shed themselves of the misconception... what they do from there is up to them. It doesn't have to be Hinduism, it can be anything........... If someone said "India ONLY has poor people"... I'd try an offer them a chance to see that while there are tons of poor people, India is making progress and urbanizing as well.... whether they accept my information is up to them. It's all about trying to correct people's misconceptions.....




And, to add to the 'questioning' of the Vedas..... I find that a great beauty of the Vedas. The Vedas don't say "this is right". The Vedas say "find out for yourself".

[Vagrant]

I don't think so. Anger itself cannot be considered haraam, as it's a natural human emotive reaction. Acting upon that anger, and losing one's self-control is how a person could possibly enter haraam territory.

Your right my apologies GND acting upon your anger is Haraam.

[Felonius Monk]

... That's a passive attitude I'm not willing to take. I'm not going to badger them.... I'll only offer them a chance to shed themselves of the misconception...
I think his point was that saying Hindus are polyetheistic idolators is neither a (complete) misconception nor an attack, although they might think it is.

[ThomasMcCabe]

... That's a passive attitude I'm not willing to take. ...... It's all about trying to correct people's misconceptions.....
Enjoy ....

[ThomasMcCabe]

I think his point was that saying Hindus are polyetheistic idolators is neither a (complete) misconception nor an attack, although they might think it is.
Not exactly. What I was saying was that even if Hindus are polytheistic idolators, it's no ones business trying to criticize Hinduism or Hindus. And if they do, then they are idiots.

[aditya]

I'm well aware of the existance of those as well.... But I don't think the Vedas have ever claimed themselves as 'the authority'...
".

hmm... well there is a classification of texts in hindu traditions.. there are 4 types of texts shruti(vedas) smriti(manu smriti etc...) ithihas(mahabharat and ramayan) and another one that i alwasy forget... among these shruti are to be taken as truth or revelations of truth. BTW i havent even read this whole thread and have no idea why you are being attacked. I personally think you are doing a great job but had a small problem with some statements that come across overgeneralizing phillosophies yet i understand this HAS to be done when people are not familiar with the traditions.

[aditya]

Not exactly. What I was saying was that even if Hindus are polytheistic idolators, it's no ones business trying to criticize Hinduism or Hindus. And if they do, then they are idiots.

i agree with this. It is nobodys right who has not understood hinduisms depth to criticize it any level wether this level is shallow or deep

[Space-Cowboy]

hmm... well there is a classification of texts in hindu traditions.. there are 4 types of texts shruti(vedas) smriti(manu smriti etc...) ithihas(mahabharat and ramayan) and another one that i alwasy forget... among these shruti are to be taken as truth or revelations of truth. BTW i havent even read this whole thread and have no idea why you are being attacked. I personally think you are doing a great job but had a small problem with some statements that come across overgeneralizing phillosophies yet i understand this HAS to be done when people are not familiar with the traditions.


Don't get me wrong I fully understand the complexity of what we're presented with.... My idea has been to try and consolidate it into something the westerners might appreciate. So a little bit of overgeneralizing does come into play.... but I do understand what you're saying.

In terms of revelations of truth... well.... my personal stance has always been that the Vedas, in and of themselves, don't contain the Absolute Truth. What they DO contain [I believe] is a guide for oneself to go FIND the absolute truth. .... The analogy I could draw would be.. math problems. We're presented with a random math problem... The Math TEXTBOOK beside us won't tell us the answer to this problem..... but it will give us the 'tools' WE need to solve the problem ourselves.

The attack came when Paulie said I was an apologist. My counter argument has been that I'm actually quite the opposite of an apologist.

Not exactly. What I was saying was that even if Hindus are polytheistic idolators, it's no ones business trying to criticize Hinduism or Hindus. And if they do, then they are idiots.

I think his point was that saying Hindus are polyetheistic idolators is neither a (complete) misconception nor an attack, although they might think it is.

But don't you two see... it's BECAUSE they're idiots that it really IS an attack on us. It is for that reason that I'm VEHEMENT in fighting the 'idiots'. Because often times it's these very 'idiots' that look to convert us. And BECAUSE they [the idiots] have an agenda to convert us, it's NECESSARY for us to fight back. .... The fighting that *I* personally do on the forums is to correct their misconceptions. And you're right... if Hindus were idolators, they should still show us respect as it is none of their business. But the sad fact is, that they DON'T show us respect and they DO make it their business.... and so I'm left with Square One..... to stand and fight BACK.

[Space-Cowboy]

To give a brief overview, refer to post # 91. I don't think I've said anything in that post which a Hindu would blatantly protest against...


And to add to that post, the philosophy of "All is Nothing, Nothing is All"....

[aditya]

space cowboy,
i am happy to find a somewhat likeminded indian and think u are diong a good job on the forums... but anyway as for vedas being like math books and teaching you how to solve the problems this is there also but i do believe that they also have personal accounts of revelations these also occur in the upanisads... but at teh end of the day it is supposed to be experiantial rather than merely understood. But i am sure you know this

[Space-Cowboy]

space cowboy,
i am happy to find a somewhat likeminded indian and think u are diong a good job on the forums... but anyway as for vedas being like math books and teaching you how to solve the problems this is there also but i do believe that they also have personal accounts of revelations these also occur in the upanisads... but at teh end of the day it is supposed to be experiantial rather than merely understood. But i am sure you know this


Oh absolutely.... that's why I believe Vedic faiths [I truly consider Hinduism, Skhism, Buddhism, Jain, all part of the same Vedic Philosophy] to be so fulfilling. For us, the Vedic based faiths.... it's not about 'religious code'... it's about Spiritual awakening.... which IS experiential.... a very PERSONAL touch, instead of a 'cookie cutter' approach that the westerners have. But at the same time, I must appreciate the fact that the Philosophy is giving me the TOOLS to find this out myself.... :D

[NdNStaTEofMinD]

Most Hindus use idols, some dont. However none of them see the idols as God, They use the Idols as something to concentrate on while worshipping or praying to the Almighty.

Hinduism is Polytheistic or Monistic. Hinduism is whatever you make of it. This is the beauty of our religion: Our religion is how ever you interpret it to be.

There are a million and a half routes to explore the forest and reach the other side...Everyone has there own trail that they follow, but at the end of the day they travel the same forest to get to the same destination......Sorry, That was my desperate attempt to be deep.


But to us as Hindus, we shouldnt be arguing over who is right and who is wrong when it comes to relgious matters, because one thing we have learned(as hindus) is that there is no wrong way to attain salvation. DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

[Brown Siren]

There is peace amongst Hindus and Sikhs now in India, they generally consider each other brothers.... and there's quite a bit of intermarriages between Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Jains... Most Sikhs in Punjab are generally happy with the current government.

The PM is Sikh, and he's quite possibly the best PM India has had, I wish to see him remain the PM.



There are some subgroups of Hinduism that don't eat meat, but over all there's nothing that says 'it's not allowed'.




That happened back in the 80s, the govt. was different back then, it's not happening that way anymore. I have Sikh friends living in India.... in Punjab... if it was so bad, they would have told me.


I just wanted to point out, that we could argue that the concept of ahinsa is where and how the not eating meat comes from. A lot of beliefs and customs of Hindu's aren't written anywhere, but what is right and wrong regarding certain ordeals has been interpreted from existing texts.

I mean, you wouldn't go to the mandir after you've eaten meat, would you?

I also don't eat meat on Monday's, Tuesday's, and Friday's. I really don't eat much meat anyways, so whatever.

[Space-Cowboy]

I just wanted to point out, that we could argue that the concept of ahinsa is where and how the not eating meat comes from. A lot of beliefs and customs of Hindu's aren't written anywhere, but what is right and wrong regarding certain ordeals has been interpreted from existing texts.

I mean, you wouldn't go to the mandir after you've eaten meat, would you?

I also don't eat meat on Monday's, Tuesday's, and Friday's. I really don't eat much meat anyways, so whatever.

Why not? :sarb: I'm pretty sure I've done it.... [not purposefully/conciously]

And Vedic Philosophy isn't about 'right/wrong' as much as they are 'cause/effect'... Action/Consequence. [refer to post # 91]

[Brown Siren]

Gah, sorry, I didn't mean right/wrong. It's hard to sum up what I want to say without going into essays.

But, about the not eating meat before going to mandir's: I believe that when you pray or go to do puja, your body and mind should be clean, or pure. Meaning, no meat (since animals had been harmed), and even to the extent of plants( so a fast)... and your mind should be free of anger, lust, etc.

It's not like god will smite us for having eaten food or meat before entering a place of worship... but I think it shows that we respect life and all living forms.

[Space-Cowboy]

Gah, sorry, I didn't mean right/wrong. It's hard to sum up what I want to say without going into essays.

But, about the not eating meat before going to mandir's: I believe that when you pray or go to do puja, your body and mind should be clean, or pure. Meaning, no meat (since animals had been harmed), and even to the extent of plants( so a fast)... and your mind should be free of anger, lust, etc.

It's not like god will smite us for having eaten food or meat before entering a place of worship... but I think it shows that we respect life and all living forms.

No no, I understand what you're saying...... but, I'm merely suggesting [my personal view], that as an 'average joe' Hindu.... I don't feel that I'm disrespecting life any less by eating said meat/killing said animal. Now, I already know this might seem contradictory, but believe me, I've thought long about this....... It would require me writing an essay to explain...... but [personal 'interpretation'] I stand by it... :p

[aditya]

Gah, sorry, I didn't mean right/wrong. It's hard to sum up what I want to say without going into essays.

But, about the not eating meat before going to mandir's: I believe that when you pray or go to do puja, your body and mind should be clean, or pure. Meaning, no meat (since animals had been harmed), and even to the extent of plants( so a fast)... and your mind should be free of anger, lust, etc.

It's not like god will smite us for having eaten food or meat before entering a place of worship... but I think it shows that we respect life and all living forms.
all of that is a relatively recent phenomena which has come about after ashoke budhism and jainism... this is easily shown by looking at any of the ashwameda or rajasugya ceremonies, in both cases invited guests of all backgrounds were fed meat, and it is well documented, and remember htis is all part of a yagna.

[foreverconfused]

all of that is a relatively recent phenomena which has come about after ashoke budhism and jainism... this is easily shown by looking at any of the ashwameda or rajasugya ceremonies, in both cases invited guests of all backgrounds were fed meat, and it is well documented, and remember htis is all part of a yagna.

although i am a proud hindu, i've never understood the necessity of these ceremonies. :neutral:

[aditya]

although i am a proud hindu, i've never understood the necessity of these ceremonies. :neutral:

i am not taking the stand that tey are or are not necessary however "hindus" have preformed them for centuries. Krishna was at the rajasugya ceremony of yudhishter and it is documented that he ate meat, actually even beef at the ceremony. Kashmiri pandits eat lamb as part of their diet, adn infact on their most holy day of shivratri fish is always prepared.

[ThomasMcCabe]

i am not taking the stand that .... is always prepared.
That is the beauty of Hinduism and of India.

[Space-Cowboy]

That is the beauty of Hinduism and of India.


You wanna know why I have to constantly fight?

Here's why:
http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=178458

[foreverconfused]

i am not taking the stand that tey are or are not necessary however "hindus" have preformed them for centuries. Krishna was at the rajasugya ceremony of yudhishter and it is documented that he ate meat, actually even beef at the ceremony. Kashmiri pandits eat lamb as part of their diet, adn infact on their most holy day of shivratri fish is always prepared.

the inclusion of meat (fish especially) in the diets of many brahmin communities i understand... i've been told protein sources were rarer in bengal, for example. i don't know how true this is, but if it is true, obviously the medical/nutritional factors should take precedence over adherence to total ahimsa...

obviously i don't have extensive knowledge about the vedas, but what i have never udnerstood is why ashwamedha sacrifices were carried out when there are far more peaceful ways of praying to god.. :sarb:

[aditya]

the inclusion of meat (fish especially) in the diets of many brahmin communities i understand... i've been told protein sources were rarer in bengal, for example. i don't know how true this is, but if it is true, obviously the medical/nutritional factors should take precedence over adherence to total ahimsa...

obviously i don't have extensive knowledge about the vedas, but what i have never udnerstood is why ashwamedha sacrifices were carried out when there are far more peaceful ways of praying to god.. :sarb:
what you need to realize that the ENTIRE CONCEPT of vegetarianism is Relativly new to hinduism. I am not saying either is RIGHT or WRONG. All i am pointing out is that it is WRONG to say that hinduism as a whole says one shouldnt eat meat or beef or whatever... yes tehre are sects now adays taht follow these traditions, but i maintain that that is what they are, traditions. And these traditions were obviously not there during the times of our forefathers when Rama would go huntnig int eh forest with his father. Or when krishna ate beef at the yajna... THere are hundreds of such cases that show it wasnt a concern back in the day but it has become one today.

[foreverconfused]

what you need to realize that the ENTIRE CONCEPT of vegetarianism is Relativly new to hinduism. I am not saying either is RIGHT or WRONG. All i am pointing out is that it is WRONG to say that hinduism as a whole says one shouldnt eat meat or beef or whatever... yes tehre are sects now adays taht follow these traditions, but i maintain that that is what they are, traditions. And these traditions were obviously not there during the times of our forefathers when Rama would go huntnig int eh forest with his father. Or when krishna ate beef at the yajna... THere are hundreds of such cases that show it wasnt a concern back in the day but it has become one today.

i agree with this. but i was not trying to dispute whether vegetarianism is an old or new concept...

never mind.

[ThomasMcCabe]

You wanna know why I have to constantly fight?

Here's why:
http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=178458No. I still don't know why you have to fight. You are not going to change their beliefs, so why bother? There are tonnes of Muslims and Christians who spew out shit like that about Hinduism. On the other hand there are Hindus too who belive that Mecca and Medina were once Hindu. Come on dude, there are better things to fight about than religion.

Politics for instance. Or girls. Or whether my car is better than yours.

[aditya]

i agree with this. but i was not trying to dispute whether vegetarianism is an old or new concept...

never mind.
lol k

[aditya]

No. I still don't know why you have to fight. You are not going to change their beliefs, so why bother? There are tonnes of Muslims and Christians who spew out shit like that about Hinduism. On the other hand there are Hindus too who belive that Mecca and Medina were once Hindu. Come on dude, there are better things to fight about than religion.

Politics for instance. Or girls. Or whether my car is better than yours.
but there are alot of ignorant hindus who read these threads and i think by showing why things like that are ludacris it if anything doesnt weaken the resolve of these other hindus.

[cunninglinguist]

but there are alot of ignorant hindus who read these threads and i think by showing why things like that are ludacris it if anything doesnt weaken the resolve of these other hindus.
oh
my
god

[aditya]

oh
my
god

perhaps ludacris was the wrong word? what i was trying to get it as that spacecowboy does a good job educating or atleast putting information uot there about hinduism and this can benefit if no one else atleast other hindus.

[cunninglinguist]

perhaps ludacris was the wrong word? what i was trying to get it as that spacecowboy does a good job educating or atleast putting information uot there about hinduism and this can benefit if no one else atleast other hindus.
ludacris is a rapper my love

[ThomasMcCabe]

ludacris is rapper my love
Ludacris is a rapper, my love.

[cunninglinguist]

Ludacris is a rapper, my love.
thank you

[ThomasMcCabe]

thank you
You are welcome. Actually it should be 'rap artist' rather than 'rapper'. 'Rapper' sounds gay. :)

[Indian1986]

Im not trying to project hinduism as a abrahimic faith because it is not...

What's wrong if Im telling something that's written in hindu holy books ??I see muslims and christians doing it all the time on this website..

the problem is some haters here just want to hear and ridicule the bad aspects of hinduism...they are just not going to accept that there can be good things in hinduism. Trying to push their doctrine down the throats of anyone not aligned with their doctrine.I never knock off any other faith...To each member of any given faith, their path is the right one.All are equal on their own merits.All are from the same source: the human species.

[mr ajnabi]

ok
well
hinduism is all over the world
and depending on where one or ones ancestrial belief originates the type of hindu may differ

hindus follow vedic scripture obviously
in different ways

im 6th generation south african indian
im a hindu, i dont eat meat on tuesdays and i pray at home

each hindu differs, as we have different means of worship

I see where your coming from i have hindu friends. :p

I believe a faith is for the person himself so he can communicate with God. Not to advertise !

[mr ajnabi]

I mean lots of Muslim girls are pretty and they have the right to show there prettyness. But I mean i just consider it wrong to take your hijab off in school, just to show your parents your religous. Why be ashamed of your religion?

Thats called Hypocrisy . A muslim should pray with their dear heart to get rid of that illness. I pity the hypocrites !!!

[ThomasMcCabe]

Im not trying to project hinduism as a abrahimic faith because it is not....
Oh but you do seem to be doing that when you post about it. But if you are not, then don't worry.