Islam the religion of peace that lives in conflict

[...Hero...]

...........

[nikefc7]

islams a sensitive issue! making thread about is garuatueed to get the forumns ticking. the same way someone makes a thread about asking people to rate thier looks or one on ugliness! muslims feel it to be duty off theirs to defend their religion whenever a thread is made about them! there are always those who use this level of defence to their own advatantage to work up muslims! at this stage from what ive seen the brain switches off and random click and pasting from sites such a prophetofdoom occur!

[Geezer]

islams a sensitive issue! making thread about is garuatueed to get the forumns ticking. the same way someone makes a thread about asking people to rate thier looks or one on ugliness! muslims feel it to be duty off theirs to defend their religion whenever a thread is made about them! there are always those who use this level of defence to their own advatantage to work up muslims! at this stage from what ive seen the brain switches off and random click and pasting from sites such a prophetofdoom occur!

You really didnt understand the question did you sweetcheeks...

[nikefc7]

You really didnt understand the question did you sweetcheeks...

oh bugger your right!

*hang on let me read it again

[...Hero...]

You really didnt understand the question did you sweetcheeks...

:rofl: I thought it was a good topic :dunno:

[ThomasMcCabe]

I personally feel that any religion can be twisted to provoke acts of violence in its name. In this day and age, it is Islam. During the Crusades it was Chrisitianity. And around the globe, people can be rallied around their religion to start off acts of violence against the 'other'.

The current problem with Islam I think arises not because of the religion, imho. It is because of a kind of disenfranchisement that is felt by most of its followers. It is also a clash between a strong religion based identity (mainly Eastern) and a secular individualistic one (coming from the Wes). The sickening violence apart, it just seems to be some kind of teenage rebellion.

The rabble rousing that you see on the street is not peculiar to Islam. It happens elsewhere too. But the numbers indulging it in the name of Islam are larger.

Christianity and Islam are the two biggest religions in the world. A Christian can look at the West and see some 'glory' that satisfies that innate human requirement for something to look up to, materialistically speaking. All said and done, we all hope for a heaven on earth first - money, good food that sort of thing. What does a Muslim have? In this day and age, nothing much. It is a powder keg - close to 2 billion people. It is easy to blame the West and they do share blame. But Muslims have to look within too.

You can trace the same angst to the rise of militant Hindu nationalism. We are all not that different.

[...Hero...]

There is still a big difference.

The crusades, could be seen as a responce to Islamic expansion. Ofcourse the Islamic armies fought against the Christians, the Islamic people have even been known to fight amongst themselves.

Christianity seperates itself from lets say when teh USA goes to war with any country or England, they dont say its a Christian war, its because the nations are so mixed with so many people.

But Islamic nations, tend to keep to their own. They do not integrate or welcome outsiders, its very closed. Hence if they do anything, say anything, believe anything, its only from the Islamic perspective and not something everyone can understand or support. I think Islam is the one that segregates itself from society and the mainstream and Not society and the rest of the world.

Oh and Hindu nationalism is something that only takes place in India and to a much smaller scale. They stay within their borders of India and India itself is showing signs of moving away from those kind of parties, where as in some Islamic nations, democracy hasnt even started to grow and extremist Islamic laws still apply

[ThomasMcCabe]

What about the height of the Arab Civilization then? Do you think the Arabs would have reached there if what you say about Islam is true?

I think that it is people who decide to segregate themselves. Religion is used to justify the segregation. The reason I brought Hinduism up was that there seems to be a frightening parallel between what you hear from Islamic fundamentalists and the Hindutvawadis. I do not doubt that deep in the American midwest there will be people who spout out something similar for Christianity.

However, yes, so far Hindu extremism has not been exported and Christian fundamentalism appears toothless.

Islamic fundamentalism is a big problem, it is true. My thrust on looking at the social aspects is because of my belief that religion is just an excuse - a rallying cry. Right now the Muslim world is looking for something that will restore pride. Some parity to the days when Muslim countries ruled over most of the civilized/known world.

[The Anti Desi]

The only real serious thing I can say is a George Carlin quote......

"Pacifism is a good idea, but it can get you killed". :|

[Cunard]

The only real serious thing I can say is a George Carlin quote......

"Pacifism is a good idea, but it can get you killed". :|

your pic scares me a little bit :neutral:


interesting comments ThomasMcCabe...like how u tick :)

[ThomasMcCabe]

interesting comments ThomasMcCabe...like how u tick :)
I tick and I talk. LOL

[KhanNoonienSingh]

:squint:

Islam's known for being peaceful. Dar ul-Islam, land of peace, is inside Islam's borders.

However, a brilliant political scientist, Samuel P. Huntington has a famous quote: "Islam has bloody borders." Dar ul-Harb. land of war. the rest of the world outside of islam.

This is not the religion's fault as it is due to the rest of the world and the practicioners of the faith.

"It is my hypothesis that the fundamental source of conflict in this new world will not be primarily ideological or primarily economic. The great divisions among humankind and the dominating source of conflict will be cultural. Nation states will remain the most powerful actors in world affairs, but the principal conflicts of global politics will occur between nations and groups of different civilizations. The clash of civilizations will dominate global politics. The fault lines between civilizations will be the battle lines of the future."

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

"In the emerging world of ethnic conflict and civilizational clash, Western belief in the universality of Western culture suffers three problems: it is false; it is immoral; and it is dangerous...Imperialism is the necessary logical consequence of universalism." (The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order, P. 310)

"Islam has bloody borders."

the only thing at fault is people. people should be held accountable for their own actions. :no:

[ThomasMcCabe]

the only thing at fault is people. people should be held accountable for their own actions. :no:
Even if the religion promotes violence, it is in the end the fault of people. Religion can be twisted, but if the basic goodness is missing from peoples' hearts, then God help us. Wait a minute I am agreeing with you.

[bad_cheque]

:squint:

Islam's known for being peaceful. Dar ul-Islam, land of peace, is inside Islam's borders.

However, a brilliant political scientist, Samuel P. Huntington has a famous quote: "Islam has bloody borders." Dar ul-Harb. land of war. the rest of the world outside of islam.

This is not the religion's fault as it is due to the rest of the world and the practicioners of the faith.



the only thing at fault is people. people should be held accountable for their own actions. :no:
Where are/were the borders of Islam?

Are you blaming non-Muslims only for violence?

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Where are/were the borders of Islam?nowhere now. :) they used to be the borders of the various caliphates/sultanates/emirates. that's what he (Huntington) meant.

Are you blaming non-Muslims only for violence?
...This is not the religion's fault as it is due to the rest of the world and the practicioners of the faith...
:idea:

[reaz]

Even if the religion promotes violence, it is in the end the fault of people. Religion can be twisted, but if the basic goodness is missing from peoples' hearts, then God help us. Wait a minute I am agreeing with you.


That's what I believe as well. However, some people blame the religion for the actions of people.

[bad_cheque]

nowhere now. :) they used to be the borders of the various caliphates/sultanates/emirates. that's what he (Huntington) meant.



:idea:
Soviet Union was peaceful from inside. :idea:

The Caliphs were not really great people. Weren't they the aristocrats of pre-Islamic Arabia who initially refused to convert but later converted and took over the religion?

[Fallen-Angel]

A lot of people think Islam means "peace" , not true. It actually means "Submission to Allah" (swt)

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Soviet Union was peaceful from inside. :idea:

The Caliphs were not really great people. Weren't they the aristocrats of pre-Islamic Arabia who initially refused to convert but later converted and took over the religion?
eventually yeah. and nobody said they were all great. people have some they liked (the ones that were Muhammad(pbuh)'s best friends) and the ones they disliked.

[(outlandish)]

conflict is a consequence of oppression. get rid of oppression and there won't be conflict. if oppression is repeated over and over again .. the conflict will continue. islam teaches to fight oppression so thats why there are so many wars committed by muslims against aggressors.

[bad_cheque]

conflict is a consequence of oppression. get rid of oppression and there won't be conflict. if oppression is repeated over and over again .. the conflict will continue. islam teaches to fight oppression so thats why there are so many wars committed by muslims against aggressors.
Yup always blame non-Muslims.

[counter strike]

Islam in arabic = submission

My viewpoint of Islam is: Submission to Muhammad's 7th century Arabic ideology

Enuff said.

[NdNStaTEofMinD]

I just think Muslims should take their religion back from the Terrorists, because they both promote two different belief systems....The first one promotes Islam, the Latter, Terrorism.

Its just taht 90 percent of these Terrorists are illiterate, these fuckers cant see for themselves what Islam is all about....I know many muslims, I have been a guest in their homes and they have been guests in mine and none of them support the radical uneducated groups.

[Indian_Eyess]

I cant think of any other religious group that hasnt been involved in some form of conflict, I think Christianity, more than Islam has been involved in conflict longer than any other group.

[(outlandish)]

Yup always blame non-Muslims.


hey dummy.. most of the oppression in the Muslim world is done by "Muslim" tyrants..

[(outlandish)]

Yup always blame non-Muslims.


most of the oppression in the Muslim world is done by "Muslim" tyrants who rose to power after the colonialists left.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

they were put into power by those same colonialists.

[(outlandish)]

yep. most of them are/were supported by the Western Powers..

[paulie walnuts]

^and the western powers are all non-muslim nations led by non-muslims, right?

so then what was the point in you denying that you're programmed to assign blame to non-muslims?

[Indian_Eyess]

^and the western powers are all non-muslim nations led by non-muslims, right?

so then what was the point in you denying that you're programmed to assign blame to non-muslims?
because that claim is well founded :idea:

[Indian_Eyess]

The blame falls on Muslims, many of the former and present leaders in the Muslim world have sold out on Muslims in general, they've created a vaccum in which the Western powers have taken advantage of the situation, it was the strategy of the British Empire to 'divide and conquer'

[...Hero...]

You guys never stick to topic! :neutral:

[NYzNiCCa]

You guys never stick to topic! :neutral:

Yes Islam is the religion of peace. :D

[NYzNiCCa]

There is still a big difference.

The crusades, could be seen as a responce to Islamic expansion. Ofcourse the Islamic armies fought against the Christians, the Islamic people have even been known to fight amongst themselves.

Christianity seperates itself from lets say when teh USA goes to war with any country or England, they dont say its a Christian war, its because the nations are so mixed with so many people.

But Islamic nations, tend to keep to their own. They do not integrate or welcome outsiders, its very closed. Hence if they do anything, say anything, believe anything, its only from the Islamic perspective and not something everyone can understand or support. I think Islam is the one that segregates itself from society and the mainstream and Not society and the rest of the world.

Oh and Hindu nationalism is something that only takes place in India and to a much smaller scale. They stay within their borders of India and India itself is showing signs of moving away from those kind of parties, where as in some Islamic nations, democracy hasnt even started to grow and extremist Islamic laws still apply

are you forgetting after 911 bush said its a CRUSADE against talibans! :p :p it was funny how that shit was all over the media, like wtf is this CHRISTIANS vs MUSLIMS again?

[NYzNiCCa]

That's what I believe as well. However, some people blame the religion for the actions of people.

i think u meant to say MOST PEOPLE. Especially in the western media...somehow Islam had created all these terrorists....what a bunch of bullocks.

[Cunard]

Soviet Union was peaceful from inside. :idea:

The Caliphs were not really great people. Weren't they the aristocrats of pre-Islamic Arabia who initially refused to convert but later converted and took over the religion?


didnt millions upon millions die in siberia?

[hussa16]

So Islam I am led to believe means "Peace" or some form of it.

But since even the beginning of this religion, it has seen conflict throughout the ages non-stop.

In todays world this has grown even more so, aswell as the amount of Islamic people.

I put it to you that Islam is a religion that cannot escape conflict.

For example. Take the threads in the serious discussion forum, notice how many of them are about Islam, or an Islamic nation linked to some kind of conflict.

This is a discussion as to the reasons why this has occured, so everyone play nicely.

Does Islam the religion of peace only cause conflict?

Let the discussion proceed.


Does a Islam cause conflict? NO! It gives people hopes and strength to fight oppressors and injustice. A myth spread by ignorant people as well as people who hate Islam that is oftened mentioned is how islam got spread by the sword. Any historian will tell you that it is not true. Islam's first couple of years were filled with conflict because Prophet Muhummad (PBUH) was tyring to establish a home base for the religion of God. He tried peacefully until the kafirs attacked him and threated HIM. THEY THREATENED THE MUSLIMS and when the muslims fought back they realized the truth.

Now an example of more recent times. Kashmir....oh yes I'm bringing it up. Why are there miltant groups fighting for the indepence of Kashmir...because the majority are muslims. Pakistan has proposed several times that India have a referendum on whether the Kashmiri people want to join India or Pakistan but India always refused. Why is there fighting there? Because the damn Indian army is occupying Muslim land. You dont know want anymore dead Indian soldiers and government officails...give Kashmir to Pakistan or independence.

Islam has not always been surrounded by conflict. Maybe if you were a little more educated you'd realize that when the Muslims controlled Spain it was the most peaceful, advanced, and prized area in the world. English students from Royality would come to learn from Muslims scientists and professors in Spain. While Europe was in a big black hole...Spain was still shining.

Please...everyone who likes to post of anti-Islam posts just stop. You'll never win an argument. Realize the truth and either accept it or walk away. If you have questions ask them in an educated way and don't make up bs that is clearly groundless.

[ThomasMcCabe]

Pakistan has proposed several times that India have a referendum on whether the Kashmiri people want to join India or Pakistan but India always refused. Why is there fighting there? Because the damn Indian army is occupying Muslim land. You dont know want anymore dead Indian soldiers and government officails...give Kashmir to Pakistan or independence.Obviously this would mean Indian Muslims are in Hindu land. Your argument is dangerous.

[hussa16]

Yea they are and I'd advise them to get out after what happened to them in Gujrat. Its called Hindustan for a reason.

[ThomasMcCabe]

Yea they are and I'd advise them to get out after what happened to them in Gujrat. Its called Hindustan for a reason.
I dont know about Gujaratis, but the majority of Indians dont think that way. :)

[ShahQ]

Kashmir isn't a religious battle, so much as a political one. But again, it falls on the same social cleavages of religion. This political aspect is the reason why Islam always finds itself in struggle. People vie for power, and idological systems take power away from some and give it to others, people's feathers are ruffled. This is of course a large and broad generalisation, but this is the crux of the situation. It's valid not to Islam, but to all macro groups.

[WildWolfdog]

Now an example of more recent times. Kashmir....oh yes I'm bringing it up. Why are there miltant groups fighting for the indepence of Kashmir...because the majority are muslims. Pakistan has proposed several times that India have a referendum on whether the Kashmiri people want to join India or Pakistan but India always refused. Why is there fighting there? Because the damn Indian army is occupying Muslim land. You dont know want anymore dead Indian soldiers and government officails...give Kashmir to Pakistan or independence.

i now believe that war is land based, not religion based. Pakistan doesn't care whether kashmir has more muslims, they want the land, it has many resources and advantages.