hate-crime shooting at Jewish center by a Pakistani

[NYzNiCCa]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/28/seattle.shooting/index.html

(CNN) -- One person was killed and five others were wounded, three critically, in a shooting at the Jewish Federation in downtown Seattle, Washington, police said.

Police have detained a suspect who is a U.S. citizen of Pakistani descent.

"This is a crime of hate, and there's no place for that in the city of Seattle," Mayor Greg Nickels said. "This was a purposeful hateful act, as far as we know, by an individual acting alone."

The attack promoted Seattle police to increase security at Jewish temples and Islamic mosques around the city, Chief Gil Kerlikowske said.

"We are also protecting mosques, because there is always the concern of retaliatory crime or retaliatory incident," Kerlikowske said.

The suspect walked into the office building just after 4 p.m. Friday armed with a large caliber semi-automatic handgun and opened fire after asking for the manager, Kerlikowske said.

The shooter laid down his handgun and surrendered to SWAT officers about 12 minutes after the shooting began, Kerlikowske said.

The belief that it was a hate crime is based on what the suspect said to a 911 operator and supervisor when he took a phone from an office worker who called the emergency number. Kerlikowske would not say specifically what the man said.

All of the shooting victims -- including the one killed -- were women, he said. Most of the 18 people in the building were female, but there was no indication he was specifically targeting them, the chief said.

The wounded were taken to Seattle's Harborview Medical Center following the shooting, the hospital said. Three of them were in critical condition with injuries to their abdomens.

The other two victims were in satisfactory condition, the hospital said, including a 37-year-old woman who is 20 weeks pregnant. She was shot in the arm, while the other woman sustained a knee injury.

Assistant Police Chief Nick Metz said police had no specific information about any threats, but his department did issue an alert Thursday "reminding officers to be vigilant to monitor synagogues and mosques in the city."

Kerlikowske acknowledged that the suspect was a Muslim, but he did not reveal his name. He said there was no reason to believe more than one person was involved in the attack. Another law enforcement official told CNN the suspect was of Pakistani descent.

FBI Special Agent-in-Charge Laura Laughlin said the suspect was a U.S. citizen, not from Seattle.

Robert Jacobs, Pacific Northwest Regional director for the Anti-Defamation League, told CNN the group has been warning Jewish institutions to be wary and ensure they have adequate security because of the ongoing conflict in the Middle East. If they cannot, he said, it would be better for Jews "not to congregate in one location that might be an obvious site."

[NYzNiCCa]

This is what happens when you watch shit going on around the world and go nuts. :no:

[Gladiator]

man, here we go again...a fucked up pakistani fucking us all up once again, luckily i'm here in canada, feel sorry for you folks in US.

[NYzNiCCa]

man, here we go again...a fucked up pakistani fucking us all up once again, luckily i'm here in canada, feel sorry for you folks in US.

man I never let shit like this get to me...I remember when 911 happened I had bought even a bigger pendent that said ALLAH and wore it in public.

[Gladiator]

man I never let shit like this get to me...I remember when 911 happened I had bought even a bigger pendent that said ALLAH and wore it in public.

nice, where did you buy it from, i remember some ****** wore it once, saw him on tv, nice to have it.

[NYzNiCCa]

nice, where did you buy it from, i remember some ****** wore it once, saw him on tv, nice to have it.

lol u can get it from anywhere in NY. I bought it from a jewelery store.

[zimmy24]

what the fuck is wrong with paki people. such a fuckin disgrace.


if the israelis were attacking Pakistan u would NEVER EVER hear about a lebanese or any other arab getting so worked up and going around shooting jews.

fuckin disgrace.

[NYzNiCCa]

what the fuck is wrong with paki people. such a fuckin disgrace.


if the israelis were attacking Pakistan u would NEVER EVER hear about a lebanese or any other arab getting so worked up and going around shooting jews.

fuckin disgrace.

i guess as a human he got workedup....have u seen images of dead lebanese kids?

[zimmy24]

^i feel for the lebs and i am as anti-israel as possible but seriously arabs wouldnt give a shit if pakistan was under attack. why the fuck do we have to get so concerned?

[NYzNiCCa]

^i feel for the lebs and i am as anti-israel as possible but seriously arabs wouldnt give a shit if pakistan was under attack. why the fuck do we have to get so concerned?

what he did is pretty stupid....hes just adding more fuel to the fire.

[sweet_like_choc]

what he did is pretty stupid....hes just adding more fuel to the fire.

Totally. It is sad though man. See this is why the non-believers hate Muslims even more, due to the minority who do evil things like this. Tauba.

[Gladiator]

what he did is pretty stupid....hes just adding more fuel to the fire.

our repution is already fucked is US, now this....ebev how moderate or secular you are, they wont give a fuck. :no:

[Le_Gendarme]

:mad: why didnt he go to lebanon instead.

[Mz_Newyawk]

what he did is pretty stupid....hes just adding more fuel to the fire.
w3rd :no:

[ThomasMcCabe]

pakis just gotta stop and so do jewish. both races are being very stupid.
I think one of the posters, zimmy, put it very well. You will never find Arabs standing up for desis. I wonder why we care so much for them. Pakistanis and Indians have always bent backwards to accomodate Arab interests. No wonder they think we are dispensible. They look down on us because desis work in the Gulf (for them) too. Crap.

And Jewish idiots like this moron are generally found in Israel, like the one who opened fire near Al-Aqsa. They have a squeaky clean image here. No prizes for guessing why they win support in the US.

[notoriou$punjabi]

attitudes have changed eh.. better than ever

[nayeemx33]

Why do pakis defend arabs when arabs doesn't give even acknowledge their existence :neutral:

[notoriou$punjabi]

Why do pakis defend arabs when arabs doesn't give even acknowledge their existence :neutral:
arabic chicks are the bomb though...

i can sense the culture aswell as the wildness.. you can take lebonese chicks for instance.. they r pretty open minded

[Gladiator]

Why do pakis defend arabs when arabs doesn't give even acknowledge their existence :neutral:

cause we need their oil at cheap prices, other than that no one really gives a fuck about them.

[nayeemx33]

cause we need their oil at cheap prices, other than that no one really gives a fuck about them.

Okay, then why does alot of Pakistani claim to be Arabs? :neutral:

[Gimmeck]

guy obviously is a retard

[notoriou$punjabi]

Quebec has over 100 000 lebonese... not hardliners actually even open than 1 would consider the pakistani community

N they belong in middle east

[ssg03]

Imagine, if the world actually set up a few more wind farms, invested in solar technology and other sustainable energy resources the call for Arab oil would drop significantly (even without converting cars to bioethenol fuel). Cut a very long story short, America would back off from the East because they just wouldn't care.

Israel could then continue bombing, arresting and killing anyone they want - innocent or terrorist. The Muslims could continue killing anyone who didn't agree with their way of life and the rest of us could just live in peace and not have to care.

Seeing poor lil' kiddies dead in Lebanon hurts me as much as the next person but the way each countries' leadership is set up the true voices of the many could never change world events, not really. All in all, it's a lost cause caring anymore about the problems of a land that's been in trouble for thousands of years all due to fanaticism.

[pakichik]

Okay, then why does alot of Pakistani claim to be Arabs? :neutral:

yeah i know alot of pakis that think they r middle eastern .. but w/e its cool.. i have alota lebonese n pali friends n stuff lol

[(outlandish)]

before you all start jumping for the pakistani wannabe arabs, arabs dont care about pakistan, pakis are stupid, pakis are always causing trouble, pakistanis are terrorists.

he was mentally disturbed.. no Islamic fundamentalist extremist would do this:

Haq had a misdemeanor lewd conduct charge pending in Benton County, near Pasco, where he was accused of exposing himself in a public place, his attorney, Larry Stephenson, told The Times.


:wtf: freak

[desailly]

^

but islamic fundamentalists and mental illness are not mutually exclusive.

In fact there is much in common.

[(outlandish)]

and he was U.S. citizen.. why do they have to say his freakin descent.. he's of Pakistani descent.. when some white person attacks anyone .. they don't say he's german-scotch irish decent..

:wtf:

[(outlandish)]

^

but islamic fundamentalists and mental illness are not mutually exclusive.

In fact there is much in common.


same with druggies, sexual deviants, christian fundamentalists, people who commit suicide, murderers, gangsters, and zionists.

[Gladiator]

Okay, then why does alot of Pakistani claim to be Arabs? :neutral:

ROFL

since when to pakis claim to be arabs, you might see some saying that one of their parents are arabs, but that's all.

[notoriou$punjabi]

same with druggies, sexual deviants, christian fundamentalists, people who commit suicide, murderers, gangsters, and zionists.
thus including BUSH BLair OSSAMA Musharraf SAddam .................................................. .......

[nayeemx33]

ROFL

since when to pakis claim to be arabs, you might see some saying that one of their parents are arabs, but that's all.

I met Pakis in real life and pakis in this forum also claim to be arabs :neutral:

[NYzNiCCa]

ROFL

since when to pakis claim to be arabs, you might see some saying that one of their parents are arabs, but that's all.

man a lot of dumb fucks on here are coming out with this shit.....i have yet to meet a paki who claims to be an arab.... :p :p :p

[NYzNiCCa]

I met Pakis in real life and pakis in this forum also claim to be arabs :neutral:

name people from the forums who claim to be arabs!

[pakichik]

man a lot of dumb fucks on here are coming out with this shit.....i have yet to meet a paki who claims to be an arab.... :p :p :p

nah the only reason some pakis think that is cuz of all the war in middle east wit muslims n stuff n pakis r muslims too so they think they part of all that shit. but personally.. i wudnt mind calling myself middle eastern its better then being called indian eww cuz then all these gay ass ppl wud ask y indians wear a red dot on their forehead n dangg i have no idea all i know its part of the hindu religion or something.. i find it a disgrace beign called an indian gahhhh ew lol. but w/e being a paki n punjabi im hella proud :D

[desailly]

and he was U.S. citizen.. why do they have to say his freakin descent.. he's of Pakistani descent.. when some white person attacks anyone .. they don't say he's german-scotch irish decent..

:wtf:

B/c

1) Pakistanis have not lived in US for as long as other groups. Ppl want to know what they are about.

2) Pakistan has a reputation for antisemitism, and brainwashing schools.

So it is fair to mention his origin.

[Gladiator]

I met Pakis in real life and pakis in this forum also claim to be arabs :neutral:

it think my bullshit alarm just went off, care to name people you think pretend to be arabs?


NYzNiCCa haha, no shit man....guess they got too much time on their hands for this kinda crap.

[Cunard]

one isolated incident in a country that has 6-7 million muslims...crap like this is bound to happen......even white evengelical christians shot up sikhs and muslims after 9/11

[ThomasMcCabe]

^

but islamic fundamentalists and mental illness are not mutually exclusive.

In fact there is much in common.


That was kind of retarded you know. :) You can be a fundamentalist and not be mentally ill. Fundamentalism has a variety of hues. Don't oversimplify.

and he was U.S. citizen.. why do they have to say his freakin descent.. he's of Pakistani descent..

It was better than saying he was Muslim though.

[NYzNiCCa]

one isolated incident in a country that has 6-7 million muslims...crap like this is bound to happen......even white evengelical christians shot up sikhs and muslims after 9/11

for the first time I agree with u....

[BUBZZZ]

Lets All Kill These Jews...i Hate Them...they Make Me Sikk

[NYzNiCCa]

Lets All Kill These Jews...i Hate Them...they Make Me Sikk

*calls 911* calm down ***** theres smoke coming out of your nose. :shock:

[ThomasMcCabe]

Lets All Kill These Jews...i Hate Them...they Make Me Sikk
Wow! Go ahead and do it then ....

[Cunard]

for the first time I agree with u....

we've agreed before too :)

[(outlandish)]

B/c

1) Pakistanis have not lived in US for as long as other groups. Ppl want to know what they are about.

2) Pakistan has a reputation for antisemitism, and brainwashing schools.

So it is fair to mention his origin.


pakistanis also have a history of exposing themselves in public.

[(outlandish)]

Lets All Kill These Jews...i Hate Them...they Make Me Sikk

and then let's smoke some weed..

smoking is haram, FYI.

you make me sick

[(outlandish)]

nah the only reason some pakis think that is cuz of all the war in middle east wit muslims n stuff n pakis r muslims too so they think they part of all that shit. but personally.. i wudnt mind calling myself middle eastern its better then being called indian eww cuz then all these gay ass ppl wud ask y indians wear a red dot on their forehead n dangg i have no idea all i know its part of the hindu religion or something.. i find it a disgrace beign called an indian gahhhh ew lol. but w/e being a paki n punjabi im hella proud :D


are you 13 or 14

[notoriou$punjabi]

WOrd.. heres one

[Space-Cowboy]

one isolated incident in a country that has 6-7 million muslims...crap like this is bound to happen......even white evengelical christians shot up sikhs and muslims after 9/11


:rambo: If anyone touches my Sikh brothas I'll eat 'em..

[and, I agree with you]

[notoriou$punjabi]

:rambo: If anyone touches my Sikh brothas I'll eat 'em..

[and, I agree with you]
Mr.Vajpayee calm down

[ThomasMcCabe]

nah the only reason some pakis think that is cuz of all the war in middle east wit muslims n stuff n pakis r muslims too so they think they part of all that shit. but personally.. i wudnt mind calling myself middle eastern its better then being called indian eww cuz then all these gay ass ppl wud ask y indians wear a red dot on their forehead n dangg i have no idea all i know its part of the hindu religion or something.. i find it a disgrace beign called an indian gahhhh ew lol. but w/e being a paki n punjabi im hella proud :D
Atleast you are honest. :)

[NYzNiCCa]

we've agreed before too :)

yeah i know we have....but we disagree a lot more so its hard to keep a count. :D

[Space-Cowboy]

yeah i know we have....but we disagree a lot more so its hard to keep a count. :D


Nah, Cunard's a good guy, he generally tries to stay as objective as I do... You should make an appreciation thread on him ;)

[notoriou$punjabi]

Tag-team champions

[NYzNiCCa]

Nah, Cunard's a good guy, he generally tries to stay as objective as I do... You should make an appreciation thread on him ;)

hahhaa.....all the serious posters will eat my ass alive. :p :p

[Gladiator]

well on india-pakistan issues he's pretty balanced but on israel issues, he's biased and i dont blame him considering his holds israeli passport.

[ThomasMcCabe]

What the fuck? Why would you even need to bring ethnicity into this? It's a shame that you would assume arabs are less concerned about humanity on a whole, than any other ethnic group, but that's your own prejudiced thought. What a stupid fucking question.
I dont think that was a stupid question. I have never seen Arabs standing up for others. Not to say that all Arabs are like that. But desis have too much time on their hands I think. To think of Arabs that is. :)

[asian_guy_786]

:no: Idiots. Brainless idiots.

:werd:

That’s why I don’t bother posting in threads like this or the serious discussions
It’s like your talking to a brick wall. Pointless

[Space-Cowboy]

What the fuck? Why would you even need to bring ethnicity into this? It's a shame that you would assume arabs are less concerned about humanity on a whole, than any other ethnic group, but that's your own prejudiced thought. What a stupid fucking question.


Not that it matters when there's more pressing crisis... but..... what ARE you? I've never asked :sarb: Are you Afghan?

[Space-Cowboy]

hahhaa.....all the serious posters will eat my ass alive. :p :p


Nah, not really, people might disagree with that man, but he still LISTENS to your side of the argument..... unlike guys like bin sheik [or shiahaz? ] who would simply brush off the arguments from the other side without a second's thought...

[notoriou$punjabi]

Nah, not really, people might disagree with that man, but he still LISTENS to your side of the argument..... unlike guys like bin sheik [or shiahaz? ] who would simply brush off the arguments from the other side without a second's thought...
and me.. i wont listen to jack shit


so dont be shy n speak your mind

[pakichik]

are you 13 or 14
no 16.. y?

[notoriou$punjabi]

lol. I'm pakistani.
if i was 1 id wanna marry you... atleast bang you for real!

[Space-Cowboy]

lol. I'm pakistani.


But....... but......... you're so WHITE.... :geek:




Anyway, I think Cunard put it best.

[desi_uk]

damnnnnnn

[Space-Cowboy]

That's great that you're bringing your personal observations into this, as I could do the same - they'd be quite different from what you stated.

The main concern here was that the man went in there and made it know that he was Muslim, before opening fire. The anger he felt was on a level of relation to the people of his religion; ethnic divides clearly weren't much of a concern for him. Anyway, his doing so disgraces Muslims on a whole - not just Pakistanis.


And you could make the argument on both sides I suppose.... the actions of Israelis.... at least to the eyes of the unwary, .... disgraces the beauty that is Judaism.

[Gladiator]

lol. I'm pakistani.

werdddd homie!

[notoriou$punjabi]

whats with the ha ha... id wanna really bang you on an intellectual level

[(outlandish)]

no 16.. y?

its rude.. saying indians are "ewwww"

and i thought someone more mature would refrain from childish behavior.

[Space-Cowboy]

Most of the Jews I know, especially my fathers co-workers, have expressed that view.


Of course they have, because I imparted my wisdom unto them!! :idea:



keke :mrhappy:

[notoriou$punjabi]

I'm a brain-sex virgin.
stop bullshitting

[ThomasMcCabe]

That's great that you're bringing your personal observations into this, as I could do the same - they'd be quite different from what you stated.

The main concern here was that the man went in there and made it know that he was Muslim, before opening fire. The anger he felt was on a level of relation to the people of his religion; ethnic divides clearly weren't much of a concern for him. Anyway, his doing so disgraces Muslims on a whole - not just Pakistanis.
:) Fair enough. To a point.

Ethnic divides were not of a concern for him, that I agree with. I was asking if Arabs in the US would ever shoot up someone if Pakistanis were at the receiving end? I have not come across any such instance.

Whom this action disgraces? Well Muslims certainly because of this guy. Pakistanis, yes because of this guy and news channels that are broadcasting his ethnicity. But imho, it disgraces all of us.

[(outlandish)]

I think one of the posters, zimmy, put it very well. You will never find Arabs standing up for desis. I wonder why we care so much for them. Pakistanis and Indians have always bent backwards to accomodate Arab interests. No wonder they think we are dispensible. They look down on us because desis work in the Gulf (for them) too. Crap.

all Arabs arent the same.. the Gulf Arabs make up maybe 5% of the entire Arab population.

the Gulf Arabs could care less for the other Arabs... did they care that Iraq is being bombed... theyre bases were used in the first Gulf War and the continued bombing of Iraq in the 1990's...as well as the latest war.

[ThomasMcCabe]

And you could make the argument on both sides I suppose.... the actions of Israelis.... at least to the eyes of the unwary, .... disgraces the beauty that is Judaism.

It does. In a round about way.

Just as this guy's action disgraces Islam. In a round about way.

More than the religion, actions such as these disgrace the followers.

[foreverconfused]

:) Fair enough. To a point.

Ethnic divides were not of a concern for him, that I agree with. I was asking if Arabs in the US would ever shoot up someone if Pakistanis were at the receiving end? I have not come across any such instance.

Whom this action disgraces? Well Muslims certainly because of this guy. Pakistanis, yes because of this guy and news channels that are broadcasting his ethnicity. But imho, it disgraces all of us.

this is totally off-topic, but you put tons of smilies in your posts.

[ThomasMcCabe]

all Arabs arent the same.. the Gulf Arabs make up maybe 5% of the entire Arab population.

the Gulf Arabs could care less for the other Arabs... did they care that Iraq is being bombed... theyre bases were used in the first Gulf War and the continued bombing of Iraq in the 1990's...as well as the latest war.

Agreed. In the over all scheme of things, if they really cared for each other, then they would have sorted Saddam on their own without allowing the US into the Gulf.

You are right. All Arabs are not the same. But when I say they dont care, I am also admiring their pragmatism. Arabs are not going to go and fire bomb the Indian embassy because of Kashmir.

[ThomasMcCabe]

this is totally off-topic, but you put tons of smilies in your posts.
I should tone that down huh? Point taken.

[notoriou$punjabi]

but they did fund pakistans nuclear program Big Time..

using Pakistan as BAIT

[foreverconfused]

I should tone that down huh? Point taken.

no no, it's fine.. i was just making a random observation - you use loads of smilies. :p

[Gladiator]

but they did fund pakistans nuclear program Big Time..

using Pakistan as BAIT

well, they needed us and we needed their money and oil, but we didnt provide them with nuclear umbrella. so, we're even now with them.

[ThomasMcCabe]

no no, it's fine.. i was just making a random observation - you use loads of smilies. :p
Yeah. I do. :neutral:

[notoriou$punjabi]

well, they needed us and we needed their money and oil, but we didnt provide them with nuclear umbrella. so, we're even now with them.
how did they need you? rest i agree with

[tamil_desi]

i guess as a human he got workedup....have u seen images of dead lebanese kids?

I'm sorry...but this is exactly what is wrong with....

How could you defend this?

[notoriou$punjabi]

aye aye Whatap Denzel ?

[tamil_desi]

aye aye Whatap Denzel ?

:salut: My internet was messed up this morning and I just got it back :neutral:

I feel naked with out the news!

[Gladiator]

how did they need you? rest i agree with

basically to protect them from any threats like israel or any other country in the region, you know pretty well that saudis cant defend themselves even if their life depended on it. :p

[notoriou$punjabi]

lets kidnap you n ask Denzels manager for a ransom

[notoriou$punjabi]

basically to protect them from any threats like israel or any other country in the region, you know pretty well that saudis cant defend themselves even if their life depended on it. :p
rubbish

[ThomasMcCabe]

rubbish
No actually he is correct. The Saudis bankrolled the Pakistani nuke program because at that time they wanted to counter balance Israel. Now with Iran developing nukes, they must be shitting in their abayas.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

sometimes people just snap. maybe he wasn't as desensitized to all the pictures as we were.

this is a tragedy in more than one way. innocent death. inflaming of tensions between communities. and another person with a heart corrupted and weeded out by the 'system'.

there seems to be nothing in the way of therapy in the muslim community at all. every other new yorker needed to see a shrink after 9/11. i sometimes wonder what osama would have done if he had someone to talk to.

when all is said and done, the only people that will be left will prolly be those that just don't give a damn.

[notoriou$punjabi]

come on now... by the time they sail a nuke on a boat towards Saudi Arabia half of it would be conquered n the rest destroyed....

Saudis have ADT -- in other words american protection already.. pakistan was more of a political venture id say to balance the power in our region

but hey if a war errupts you know damn sure the counter attack aint going much past the border ..heck not even balochistan forget about middle east

[Space-Cowboy]

basically to protect them from any threats like israel or any other country in the region, you know pretty well that saudis cant defend themselves even if their life depended on it. :p


ohhh yes they could ;) [vicariously]..... Saudi family, and their oil is U.S.'s investment........... they're just as much U.S.'s baby as Israel is ;)... U.S. WOULD go in to protect that investment if necessary :p In reality, U.S. doesn't give a shit about the Saudi family.... but since the oil is their property, U.S. is forced to care....

[KhanNoonienSingh]

sometimes people just snap. maybe he wasn't as desensitized to all the pictures as we were.

this is a tragedy in more than one way. innocent death. inflaming of tensions between communities. and another person with a heart corrupted and weeded out by the 'system'.

there seems to be nothing in the way of therapy in the muslim community at all. every other new yorker needed to see a shrink after 9/11. i sometimes wonder what osama would have done if he had someone to talk to.

when all is said and done, the only people that will be left will prolly be those that just don't give a damn.
i hate it when i fucking reply at the bottom of a page and everyone misses my post. :mad:

[tamil_desi]

lets kidnap you n ask Denzels manager for a ransom

We can split it!

[notoriou$punjabi]

anyways back to tamil desi.... man you got some looks

[notoriou$punjabi]

We can split it!
thats my man... id give 5 % to RD Welfare Fund outta my own cut

[ThomasMcCabe]

come on now... by the time they sail a nuke on a boat towards Saudi Arabia half of it would be conquered n the rest destroyed....
You do not need a boat dude. All you need is a plane.

Who do you think bought those gleaming F-16s for Pakistan? Why do you think Pakistani pilots flew for Arab Air Forces. Arabs have the money. Desis have the brains. LOL

[King786]

damn, pakis are the craziest muslims forreal..

[ThomasMcCabe]

ohhh yes they could ;) [vicariously]..... Saudi family, and their oil is U.S.'s investment........... they're just as much U.S.'s baby as Israel is ;)... U.S. WOULD go in to protect that investment if necessary :p In reality, U.S. doesn't give a shit about the Saudi family.... but since the oil is their property, U.S. is forced to care....
You use too many smilies.

[ThomasMcCabe]

damn, pakis are the craziest muslims forreal..
WTF was that for?

[tamil_desi]

thats my man... id give 5 % to RD Welfare Fund outta my own cut

yeah :p


Gotta give back to RD...it's done so much for us :rolleyes: :p :p

[notoriou$punjabi]

You do not need a boat dude. All you need is a plane.

Who do you think bought those gleaming F-16s for Pakistan? Why do you think Pakistani pilots flew for Arab Air Forces. Arabs have the money. Desis have the brains. LOL
of course... An american made f16 flyin with a nuclear payload to be used against ISrael can never even take off from any air strip in pakistan...

These operations are better undetected n unnoticed

[Space-Cowboy]

You use too many smilies.


pot calling kettle black... :|

[ThomasMcCabe]

of course... An american made f16 flyin with a nuclear payload to be used against ISrael can never even take off from any air strip in pakistan...

These operations are better undetected n unnoticedThe pilots would be in KSA. As would the planes and the bomb. Besides the bomb is generally for psychological effect rather than actual use.

[ThomasMcCabe]

pot calling kettle black... :|
There you go again.

[notoriou$punjabi]

yeah :p


Gotta give back to RD...it's done so much for us :rolleyes: :p :p
no jokes intended... you are a good looki man

some fools say oh he is black he is dark he isnt fair... Fairness in all fairness gets dirty too easily

[ThomasMcCabe]

yeah :p


Gotta give back to RD...it's done so much for us :rolleyes: :p :pYou use too many smilies.

[notoriou$punjabi]

The pilots would be in KSA. As would the planes and the bomb. Besides the bomb is generally for psychological effect rather than actual use.
Bandar de hath vich maachis

[Space-Cowboy]

There you go again.


No :rolleyes:


:idea:


:firedevi:

:kekeke:

:sarb:

:p

:D

:squint:

:squintFa:

:nervous:

[tamil_desi]

no jokes intended... you are a good looki man

some fools say oh he is black he is dark he isnt fair... Fairness in all fairness gets dirty too easily


Haha...this is true. I mean I could go 2 weeks without showering and you wouldn't be able to tell...of course you would need to wear a gas mask.

:p :p :neutral: :p :p :)


Too many smilies...right! :no:

[the_dark_drag0n]

LOL@it being some Paki guy, and not an Arab dude who would be more "appropriate" to react this way.

I hope it ends here, like it doesn't stretch into something bigger OUTSIDE of the Middle East.

There was nicer protesting in Montreal, where Jewish people and Lebanese people protested TOGETHER. The dumbest shit gets turned into a big deal though. Like our mayor assisted this mixed one, organized by Jewish people, and not the one organized by Lebanese people earlier because he was at Church praying as told by the Pope instead, and people were making a fuss about him showing bias. He was just there because the whole demonstration was FOR PEACE. Who the fuck cares who organized it.

[notoriou$punjabi]

and if im not wrong was it hezbollah who declared chechnya as Russias internal conflict

[Gladiator]

No actually he is correct. The Saudis bankrolled the Pakistani nuke program because at that time they wanted to counter balance Israel. Now with Iran developing nukes, they must be shitting in their abayas.

exactly

[Gladiator]

of course... An american made f16 flyin with a nuclear payload to be used against ISrael can never even take off from any air strip in pakistan...

These operations are better undetected n unnoticed

nope cant do it, to do that you need source codes to fire missiles, and america makes sure that the codes they put in, if PAF flies F-16 and tries to fire missile at an american jer or an israeli, it wont do it.

[the_dark_drag0n]

and if im not wrong was it hezbollah who declared chechnya as Russias internal conflictYeah but then again Hezbollah didn't exist prior to the creation of Israel, I think. I packed up my books, or I coulda checked. So if you want to really argue, you could always say that the Jews created Hezbollah. It all comes down to what you want to argue in the end, and how you see the situation.

[notoriou$punjabi]

Haha...this is true. I mean I could go 2 weeks without showering and you wouldn't be able to tell...of course you would need to wear a gas mask.

:p :p :neutral: :p :p :)


Too many smilies...right! :no:
if you really was my friend id have you ridin a Limo 2night in downtown... get 4 bodyguards n have bitches goin Crazy

[ThomasMcCabe]

I've seen it go both ways. I've seen Egyptians who couldn't care less about Palestinians, let alone Pakistanis. And I've seen Pakistanis who detest Arabs for reasons unknown to them; simply because that's the ignorance they've seen their parents display.

Fair enough.

But when you look at how far the conflict has escalated, ..... is on the receiving end.

Massacres happen. But that is no reason to kill. I think the Arabs are pragmatic enough to realize that.

What I'm worried about now as well, is a retaliation crime.

Dont worry, the Jews are too clever for that.
:neutral:

[KhanNoonienSingh]

damn, pakis are the craziest muslims forreal..
nation founded in the name of Islam. :cool2:


"Allah, save this country! Pakistan zindabad!"
-Liaquat Ali Khan , first Prime Minister of Pakistan, after being shot.

:love:

[ThomasMcCabe]

No :rolleyes:


:idea:


:firedevi:

:kekeke:

:sarb:

:p

:D

:squint:

:squintFa:

:nervous:
You should be banned.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Stigma.

Muslims are too badass to see shrinks. =P
hahaha, if i saw a shrink now i'd be reported to the FBI after the first session. :p its really not an option sometimes. after the threads yesterday, i wanted to go out and commit some hate crimes myself against all males.

the religion is very therapeutic though. i think scholars should start emphasizing more about the personal spirituality inherent within it. usually they say a lot about it, but don't make it accessible to the normal population. [/suficrackpot]

[notoriou$punjabi]

nope cant do it, to do that you need source codes to fire missiles, and america makes sure that the codes they put in, if PAF flies F-16 and tries to fire missile at an american jer or an israeli, it wont do it.
"they needed us"

[lovestick]

Hilarious.

[lovestick]

nation founded in the name of Islam. :cool2:


"Allah, save this country! Pakistan zindabad!"
-Liaquat Ali Khan , first Prime Minister of Pakistan, after being shot.

:love:

To be fair, Pakistan was found more in the name of representational rather than religious reasons.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

To be fair, Pakistan was found more in the name of representational rather than religious reasons.
yeah. to represent Muslims. a religious denomination. i mean its certainly not an islamic state or anything, i didn't mean that.

[notoriou$punjabi]

Yeah but then again Hezbollah didn't exist prior to the creation of Israel, I think. I packed up my books, or I coulda checked. So if you want to really argue, you could always say that the Jews created Hezbollah. It all comes down to what you want to argue in the end, and how you see the situation.
you are right but this was very recent... i guess about a year max

hezbollah disregarding chechan rebels

Russia backs Iran backs Hezbollah

To me Hezbollah is nothing more than a Social organisation .. they have plenty of volunteers i believe n thats why there is such extra ordinary support for them among the general population...

But to fund these social programs its running a criminal organisation based across the middle east

Which is good and bad at the same time

[lovestick]

yeah. to represent Muslims. a religious denomination. i mean its certainly not an islamic state or anything, i didn't mean that.

right. : )

[asian_guy_786]

I don't mean to sound patronising,but EVERYONE who posts on this subject seems severly misguided. did it ever occur to you people, that reading and research alone cannot provide you with answers you require?

It's the company you keep that reveals the true dictatorship of the world people.


Holla@hotmail.com for any questions.

(Bored of hosting online seminars)

*Exits thread* :p

[the_dark_drag0n]

I agree. Many of these supposedly Islamic terrorist groups are not what they were meant to be anymore. They've turned into criminal groups, more than terrorist/freedom-fighters (whatever they try to advertize themselves as). Many sell drugs and stuff to finance themselves, and IMO since Islam doesn't want its people to use drugs, I bet it wouldn't want them to support others in doing so. That's not teaching kafirs the right path at all, nor does it bring them closer to Allah.

They just seem to use Islam when it advantages them (like telling civilians how they're fighting for Islam, or opprosed Muslims and getting their sympathy that way) and then disregard the religion when it's a handicap.

[the_dark_drag0n]

I was agreeing with the punjabi boy, for the record*

[asian_guy_786]

lol. Sorry, do guide us then.


holla_holla@hotmail.com :p

[ThomasMcCabe]

As far as his intentions, his reasoning (or lack thereof), his lack of perception into the consequences of his actions is concerned - I think he loses most of us there. Bloody fool.
Thats what I was trying to point out. People feel anger. If they did not they would not be human. Muslims get angry about Palestine and Lebanon. Christians get angry about E Timor and Sudan. Hindus get angry about Fiji.

But most angry people dont go and kill. I mean for heaven's sake if a Lebanese had gone to kill those people, it was still understandable. What was this dude getting so worked up for? Why do desis have to do all the crazy stuff.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

lmao, sufi, ruuuun!

We reviewed a sufi book in the latest issue of Inspire. I saw a lady pick up a copy, mouth the word "sufi" in horror, put it down, and walk away. lolzclosedminded.
oh yeah, i remember that. you still write for it? is it online? liiiink.

stupid woman. :mad: islam starts and ends with spirituality. :squint: even the sunni revivalist movements in pakistan/india like the deobandi are based around incorporating the basic sufi element of tasawuf along with the principles of western/greek logic and hadith study.

heh, that's what all the bigger madrassas in pakistan actually teach. it is mainstream islam. unfortunately mainstream muslims don't even know mainstream islam. :rolleyes:

even the shariah will fail and not work if it there isn't a beating heart keeping it running. and tasawuf is like the beating heart of islam.

i had an awesome lecture/speech on it by Maulana Manzoor Numani explaining all the basics of it if any muslims are curious. hollaar.

[Gladiator]

"they needed us"

sorry man, my bad..i didnt read clearly what you said, i'm trying to multi task here, work and posting :p

[notoriou$punjabi]

you see this i can claim without any problems...

Muslims posting in this thread prolly are just as religious as all the hindus posting here right now intheir respective ways

but its just that if muslims tend to indulge themselves too much in another countries business it creates a misconception that you guys are all after the same thing..

Nowdays nothing is done based upon what religion is dominant in a particular country but its all about Business... Now playing with the bigdog i'd say Iraq Iran or Syria really were ruled by blind leaders if they handnt seen this coming

Iraq n Iran have just enough oil to be one of the richest n developed countries in the world just like the saudis or the kuwaitees ... If they would have run a democratic country n do things according to the book all this would never happen... ...

some might claim we have Russia on our side ? so whats that gonna do for Iran if they really happen to be the next ones in line ? Nothing.. yeah the russians might supply enough arsenal they have built anyway from all these years but they wont be bombarded.. Iran will be destructed n lets say the war does get over then how many years are you willing to spend to rebuild >? In the mean time the next generations prospects of leading a good life are fucked so they will end up living in hatred n thus carrying on this tradition

its all worthless

[notoriou$punjabi]

sorry man, my bad..i didnt read clearly what you said, i'm trying to multi task here, work and posting :p
i forgive you

[asian_guy_786]

oh yeah, i remember that. you still write for it? is it online? liiiink.

stupid woman. :mad: islam starts and ends with spirituality. :squint: even the sunni revivalist movements in pakistan/india like the deobandi are based around incorporating the basic sufi element of tasawuf along with the principles of western/greek logic and hadith study.

heh, that's what all the bigger madrassas in pakistan actually teach. it is mainstream islam. unfortunately mainstream muslims don't even know mainstream islam. :rolleyes:

even the shariah will fail and not work if it there isn't a beating heart keeping it running. and tasawuf is like the beating heart of islam.

i had an awesome lecture/speech on it by Maulana Manzoor Numani explaining all the basics of it if any muslims are curious. hollaar.

:werd:licious true story.

[Gladiator]

just for the recordm do you know that the F-16s block 80, the most advanced F-16 in the world that UAE is getting, some of the software for those jets is being made in israel.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

No I see your point.

Dude, I'm telling you. Gene flow and directional selection pwned us somehow; pakistanis lack the ability to cope with their anger properly. I think I'm on to something here.
reeeeepost.

they all got thyroid problems and become emotionally unstable.

[ThomasMcCabe]

No I see your point.

Dude, I'm telling you. Gene flow and directional selection pwned us somehow; pakistanis lack the ability to cope with their anger properly. I think I'm on to something here.
There is something retarded about Indians too. Sub continental angst. We try to relive past glories, but find the world doesn't give a fuck.

[asian_guy_786]

No I see your point.

Dude, I'm telling you. Gene flow and directional selection pwned us somehow; pakistanis lack the ability to cope with their anger properly. I think I'm on to something here.

lollllll you make me laugh.

:werd:

[dutsqg]

There is something retarded about Indians too. Sub continental angst. We try to relive past glories, but find the world doesn't give a fuck.
yeah dude

all these mother fuckers were born gay

and they will stay gay

[ThomasMcCabe]

lmao @ sub-continental angst.

And yeah, Pakistanis do that too... Muslims in general actually.

"remember when we OWNED you!"
"no"
"but we-"
"no"
"come ON. back in the day. holla!"
All desis do that.

All desis drive big cars. LOL

[notoriou$punjabi]

lmao @ sub-continental angst.

And yeah, Pakistanis do that too... Muslims in general actually.

"remember when we OWNED you!"
"no"
"but we-"
"no"
"come ON. back in the day. holla!"
thats when ppl try to gain happiness from something they werent even part of.. how sad

[notoriou$punjabi]

Well honestly, it makes no sense to me how some people are still stuck in the "glory days" of yestercenturies. It perpetuates this strange sort of arrogance which really shouldn't be there. Concentrate on now. But that hurts too much.
sometimes one does need to dewel in the past in order to bring another back to his senses..but yeah truth is bitter

[asian_guy_786]

There is no point mulling and contemplating what you really not know of and just glamorising political discussion. If we really had some true sense in who we really are we wouldn't even be discussing this because we would already know.

P.S "America has a 51st state, registered and deeded some 146 years ago....Israel"...


Some knowledge is rather left internal, because if you delve too much into the reasons why something happens...your whole general perspective on life becomes irreversably negative.

:werd:

[ThomasMcCabe]

Well honestly, it makes no sense to me how some people are still stuck in the "glory days" of yestercenturies. It perpetuates this strange sort of arrogance which really shouldn't be there. Concentrate on now. But that hurts too much.
It is just a means of running away. Coming to terms with the fact that one is not as important as one thinks is tough.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Yeah I still write for it. The link is on my ex-blog. :squint: Btw, I've started a new blog.

I know - sufis do tend to push the envelope a bit too far at times, that's obviously what scares most people. But god, they bring so much beauty back into it - beauty which was always there. But of course, just say the word "sufi" and... :lalala:

I will hollAr at you for that lecture in a bit.
alright, coolio. gimme link later. :squint: and i updated mine with the details of the interview.

i don't think the real sufis necessarily pushed the envelope. i think what happened was that there was a breakdown once again in communication between the advanced and the student masses. people started ritualizing things that the 'masters' would experiment with.

ibn sina, the guy who wrote the first medical textbook, went mad when he tried to prove God's existence in formal logic.

ibn arabi wrote an existential interpretation of spirituality that brought it on par with even buddhism or hinduism, imho, and his influence remains to this day similar to works like 'The Tao of Physics' and a lot of his concepts were forerunners to similar concepts in Western philosophy of science.

a lot of the time, the conclusions they came out with sounded similar to ideas in hinduism which freaked people out, but that's just stupid. within islam, everyone believes the first humans were muslim of course. so of course hinduism, judaism, everything has roots in truth. and all spirituality in all religions is identical. the process of self-realization. all roads lead to rome. that philosophy got the sufis in a lot of trouble, even though they were fully endorsing shariah and sunni government/islamic fiqh.

Allama Iqbal, the guy who engineered the creation of Pakistan (and not for representational reasons, although that's what Jinnah turned it into), was the last major guy on par with those sufi greats. he tried to come full circle by bringing back the disparate parts of the deen. as Ali Shariati, a sociology professor from Iran who critiqued a lot of the Sufis said... Iqbal was just as much Caesar as he was Socrates. the creation of Pakistan is up there with any poetry or discourse on the reconstruction of islam he has ever written. he actually did shit. that's why i always say Pakistan is the home of Sunni Islam. Wahabi/Salafi came out of Arabia and kinda messed with shit there. Sunni Islam in Pakistan is also going to be what tames the runaway 'fundamentalist' movements. The Taliban officially prescribe to the same deobandi school i mentioned earlier though they're criticized for having a narrow interpretation of it (i.e, Wahabis perpetrating as Sunnis).

if MIXED-UP GIRL is reading this, i know she's gonna yell at me in a PM so i'm just gonna say i'm not judging them :p just being critical.

[ThomasMcCabe]

a lot of the time, the conclusions they came out with sounded similar to ideas in hinduism which freaked people out, but that's just stupid. within islam, everyone believes the first humans were muslim of course. so of course hinduism, judaism, everything has roots in truth. and all spirituality in all religions is identical. the process of self-realization. all roads lead to rome. that philosophy got the sufis in a lot of trouble, even though they were fully endorsing shariah and sunni government/islamic fiqh.
........
that's why i always say Pakistan is the home of Sunni Islam. Wahabi/Salafi came out of Arabia and kinda messed with shit there. Sunni Islam in Pakistan is also going to be what tames the runaway 'fundamentalist' movements. The Taliban officially prescribe to the same deobandi school i mentioned earlier though they're criticized for having a narrow interpretation of it (i.e, Wahabis perpetrating as Sunnis).

Few interesting points there. But what caused the Sufi movement to start anyway?

[asian_guy_786]

Right, well, not one of us is perfect. We're all tainted with bias. Discussion sheds light, sometimes rids us of ignorance if we're willing to accept criticism on our own viewpoints.

Delving into knowledge that you'd rather leave untouched can leave you spiralling into a train of pessimistic thought, yes. I'd rather do that, than choose to ignore it. It can keep one grounded.

:werd: I just got pwned by the supper girl :p

knowing too much can be devastating while speakin of it openly.Thats how people go insane.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Few interesting points there. But what caused the Sufi movement to start anyway?
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

[ThomasMcCabe]

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
Interesting. But the prophet was the founder of Islam. And Sufism is the mystical branch of Islam. What started that school of thought?

[notoriou$punjabi]

Dwell on the past only to understand it, so that you may stop yourself from making the same mistake twice. Unfortunately, history still repwns itself.
If you embark on a quest to research each and every source of why India and Pakistan havent worked out the regional differences you will have to go over the wars, the tough talk and several other disputes we've had since independence. The leaders who choose to command our countries into the same tough spot again would be entirely right because the citizens are still just as stupid as they were back in 60's. Ammasing stockpiles of missles, bombs, bullets and we are still very much busy collecting as much destructive material as possible. Why so ?

I say because the citizens let it happen out of laziness. Take US for instance where there arent any social problems faced by third world countries. They chose a leader and even though he came in with 50 % support he is still doing what he thinks is right. People were against him when he took them into Iraq, now backing Israel and soon fighting Iran will be a reality. So Are we saying all this cannot be stopped ? Just cos the man we chose that day 8 years ago is making these efforts even though it has been prooved americans were decieved into war by the same man we choose to go along with it. This very guy has endangered the whole population and open to attacks at any given day any given time and when he himself retires he will be residing at a place half the countrymen havent dreamnt of living in. Whats he got to loose? The mans going out with a legacy !

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Interesting. But the prophet was the founder of Islam. And Sufism is the mystical branch of Islam. What started that school of thought?
Sufism originates in the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad. Almost all traditional Sufi schools (orders) trace their "chains of transmission" back to the Prophet, either via his cousin and son-in-law Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib or caliph Abu Bakr. From their point of view, the esoteric teaching was given to those who had the capacity to contain the direct experiential gnosis of God, and then passed on from teacher to student through the centuries.

Some scholars believe that Sufism was essentially the result of Islam evolving in a more mystic direction. For example, Annemarie Schimmel proposes that Sufism in its early stages of development meant nothing but the interiorization of Islam. And Louis Massignon states: "It is from the Qur’an, constantly recited, meditated, and experienced, that Sufism proceeded, in its origin and its development."


The Great masters of Sufism
The Sufis dispersed throughout the Middle East, particularly in the areas previously under Byzantine influence and control. This period was characterised by the practice of an apprentice (murid) placing himself under the spiritual direction of a Master (shaykh or pir).

Schools were developed, concerning themselves with the topics of mystical experience, education of the heart to rid itself of baser instincts, the love of God, and approaching God through progressive stages (maqaam) and states (haal). The schools were formed by reformers who felt their core values and manners had disappeared in a society marked by material prosperity that they saw as eroding the spiritual life.

Uwais al-Qarni, Harrm Bin Hian, Hasan Ul-Basri and Sayid Ibn Ul Mussib are regarded as the first mystics among the "Taabi'een" in Islam. Rabia was a female Sufi and known for her love and passion for God. Junayd was among the first theorist of Sufism; he concerned himself with ‘fanaa’ and ‘baqaa’, the state of annihilating the self in the presence of the divine, accompanied by clarity concerning wordly phenomena.



Formalization of Philosophies of Sufism
Al Ghazali's treatises, the "Reconstruction of Religious Sciences" and the "Alchemy of Happiness," argued that Sufism originated from the Qur'an making it compatible with mainstream Islamic thought and theology. It was around 1000 CE that the early Sufi literature, in the form of manuals, treatises, discourses and poetry, became the source of Sufi thinking and meditations.

after that point happened what i mentioned earlier. the movement became large and started spinning off in various directions. that's why i don't think Sufism itself exists as a viable alternative anymore, but there are plenty of things from within it that are important.

There are three ways of knowing a thing. Take for instance a flame. One can be told of the flame, one can see the flame with his own eyes, and finally one can reach out and be burned by it. In this way, we Sufis seek to be burned by God.

[ThomasMcCabe]

after that point happened what i mentioned earlier. the movement became large and started spinning off in various directions. that's why i don't think Sufism itself exists as a viable alternative anymore, but there are plenty of things from within it that are important.
I had actually read that. :) But thanks anyway. I think Sufism is a viable thought process even today. Not just for Muslims.

Why do you say it is not a viable alternative? And what is it supposed to be an alternative to?

[KhanNoonienSingh]

I had actually read that. :) But thanks anyway. I think Sufism is a viable thought process even today. Not just for Muslims.

Why do you say it is not a viable alternative? And what is it supposed to be an alternative to?
do you know any sufis? i don't. and those that are around are devoted to the middle-latter stages of it, with the singing/dancing and all that. most of them are really liberalish muslims who disagree with the other branches. traditionally sufism has not been that.

[ThomasMcCabe]

do you know any sufis? i don't. and those that are around are devoted to the middle-latter stages of it, with the singing/dancing and all that. most of them are really liberalish muslims who disagree with the other branches. traditionally sufism has not been that.
I see Sufi influence around me whenever I am in India. The qawwalis at the dargah, the calm and the peace on the faces of the older people, that quaint way of looking at life that is Islamic, but yet so desi (or can I say non-Arabic, I dont know what words I can put there). I have never seen anyone dancing though.

If you are a person who goes by the book, then yeah maybe Sufism will not be all that satisfying. Kind of telling a Christian to explore Gnosticism.

[ThomasMcCabe]

Well, if by the book you mean literal interpretation, then yes.
Thats exactly what I meant. :)

[hussa16]

The guy did a stupid thing and who knows maybe he was mentally insane or something. Everyone is just speculating this and that.

Let me make something clear to the non-muslims on this site. Other muslim people - doesnt matter if they're Arab, BLack, Chinese, whatever - our considered our brothers/sisters. So if something hurts them it hurts us. So thats why Pakis are obsessed with Arabs. Do you get it now? Or would you like to come up with more stupid theories?

[notoriou$punjabi]

beautiful

[ThomasMcCabe]

Other muslim people - doesnt matter if they're Arab, BLack, Chinese, whatever - our considered our brothers/sisters. So if something hurts them it hurts us.
So Pakis > Arabs. :)

But yeah goes a long way explaining certain things.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

and no, not even a literal interpretation. islam is built upon spirituality, and reciting the qur'an itself is the first form of meditation or step towards God-consciousness.

so technically, the literal interpretation is the first step of tasawuf.

the goal is to become like Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). when all else fails, what would Muhammad(pbuh) do? they need to make a sticker for that instead of WWJD, heh.

and yeah, you can't just mimic him on the outside. you need to mimic him on the inside. unfortunately, free trips to see Heaven and Hell aren't in our itinerary. :p

Agreed.


That was very well put. Though I'm not so sure about the part in bold. Runaway fundamentalists movements are self-perpetuating. When nothing is being done to uproot feudal culture (which bought-out mullahs thrive on to preach what suits them), those movements will be hard to tame, don't you think?
"Islam is itself destiny and will not suffer destiny."
-Muhammad Iqbal.

when all else fails, never ever forget that.

it doesn't matter how hard it is or isn't. it's going to be done. if we weren't ordered to stay out of it, i'd do it myself.

these movements are not self-perpetuating, imho. islam is self-perpetuating. its like an organic system. these movements that rise up, clash, and transform again... they're like immune system functions. they're going to transform from the inside out, and uproot the culture themselves like lots of fundamentalist movements do.

a scab forming. one extreme shifts momentum like a pendulum to the other end, before things even out.

the thing is, this involves human lives. so its terrible to watch. its like a red blood cell watching what goes on after you just got a gaping wound, and its staring in abject horror.

the situation is compounded by the fact that these are really dire times for muslims. and its been called out thousands of years ago by Muhammmad(pbuh) himself. the same prophetic hadith about the day of judgement which reference Muslims coming out of the east carrying black banners to save everyone. the Taliban therefore, use black banners like a bunch of posers. but who knows what might evolve from this movement. the creation of Pakistan is one of the most curious things in history, imho. and so is its history. just like how Iran's foreign policy right this moment is to kick-start the apocalypse.

and regarding that:

Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman said, "People used to ask the Prophet (S) about good things, but I used to ask him about bad things because I was afraid that they might overtake me. I said, 'O Messenger of Allah, we were lost in ignorance (Jahiliyyah) and evil, then Allah brought this good (Islam). Will some evil come after this good thing?' He said, 'Yes'. I asked, 'And will some good come after that evil?' He said, 'Yes, but it will be tainted with some evil.' I asked, 'How will it be tainted?' He said, 'There will be some people who will lead others on a path different from mine. YOu will see good and bad in them.' I asked, 'Will some evil come after that good?' He said, 'Some people will be standing and calling at the gates of Hell; whoever responds to their call, they will throw him into the Fire.' I said, 'O Messenger of Allah, describe them for us.' He said, 'They will be from our own people, and will speak our language.' I asked, 'What do you advise me to do if I should live to see that?' He said, 'Stick to the main body (Jamah) of the Muslims and their leader (Imam).' I asked, 'What if there is no main body and no leader?' He said, 'Isolate yourself from all of these sects even if you have to eat the roots of the trees until death overcomes you while you are in that state.'" (Bukhari, Kitab al-Fitan, 9/65)

'Abdallah Ibn Masud said: "The Prophet (S) said, 'Islam began as something strange, and it will revert to being strange as it was int he beginning, so good tidings for the strangers.' Someone asked, 'Who are the strangers?' He said, 'The ones who break away from their people (literally, 'tribes') for the sake of Islam.'" This hadith was narrated by Ibn Majah on the authority of Anas and Abu Hurairah. (Muslim, Kitab al-Iman, 1/90; Ibn Majah, Kitab al-Fitan 2/1320 (3988))

Hazrat Ahban bin Saifi has narrated that the Holy Prophet (pbuh) has said:
"Very shortly some differences and disputes are going to arise. When you come upon such a time break your sword and hold in your hand a wooden sword and sit quietly in your house, lest some mischievous hand or calamity should fall upon you." (Tirmizi)

"No doubt trials and disorders will soon occur. A man lying during the period of these disorders will be better than the man sitting and the man sitting will be better than the man standing; the man standing will be better than the man running. Then listen! when these trials and disorders begin to descend, then he who possesses camels should take refuge with his camel. He who has cattle, should take refuge with his cattle; he who has land should take refuge with his land; he who has nothing should turn his attention to his sword and strike it against stone. He should try to seek security and shelter as best as possible."
these are all from the most authentic hadith books too, all Sunni/Shi'a believe in their authenticity. Shi'a prophetic hadith only get different with regards to Imam Mahdi (the guy who shows up just before Jesus(as)).

[hussa16]

Very good post but what do you think the Hadiths are saying?

[arbguy562]

[QUOTE=hussa16]The guy did a stupid thing and who knows maybe he was mentally insane or something. Everyone is just speculating this and that.

Let me make something clear to the non-muslims on this site. Other muslim people - doesnt matter if they're Arab, BLack, Chinese, whatever - our considered our brothers/sisters. So if something hurts them it hurts us. So thats why Pakis are obsessed with Arabs. Do you get it now? Or would you like to come up with more stupid theories?[/QUOTE

For the most part Arabs dont care about other Muslims. Arabs dont care much about what happens in Kashmir, Indonesia, Phillippines. They dont protest when something bad goes down in a non arab muslim state.

[notoriou$punjabi]

We've already gone over this.
there isnt much left for you to master but one

[hussa16]

How do you know that? If they didn't care about other muslims why do they send aid to so many other muslim countries. Yes I know there is alot of racism in the Middle-East towards foreign workers but thats due to ignorance. My dad was in Kuwait during the first Gulf War. When the war started he left immediately. The Iraqi were letting all the foreign workers out. Also, when he was travelling through Iran to get to Pakistan he said he could believe how helpful the people in Iran were. They were giving people food, places to stay, etc. So I have first hand knowlege on how strong this bond is.

[ThomasMcCabe]

How do you know that? If they didn't care about other muslims why do they send aid to so many other muslim countries. This argument is going round in circles. Of course people help each other. And they should, whether the others are of the same religion or not.

But you dont help your people by going out and killing some one else.

[hussa16]

Yea which was stated before already. Its just that people are making weird shit and I'm tired of hearing people attacking my religion and my people. If one muslim does something bad its like every muslim should be punished. If one person from ANY OTHER religion does soemthing its seens as a regular crime.

[ThomasMcCabe]

Yea which was stated before already. Its just that people are making weird shit and I'm tired of hearing people attacking my religion and my people. If one muslim does something bad its like every muslim should be punished. If one person from ANY OTHER religion does soemthing its seens as a regular crime.
I dont think anyone said that mate. Anyway, this thread should be closed now I guess.

[zimmy24]

What the fuck? Why would you even need to bring ethnicity into this? It's a shame that you would assume arabs are less concerned about humanity on a whole, than any other ethnic group, but that's your own prejudiced thought. What a stupid fucking question.

first of all, Pakistani is a nationality not an ethnicity.

and secondly, shut the fuck up

i bet all those ppl going on those "SAVE LEBANON" walks are pakis :ugh:
but in "SAVE KASHMIR" walks theres NEVER EVER ANY non desi there. ok maybe a few lost white ppl but no arabs at all.

stupid pakis take this "muslim brotherhood" thing wayyy to seriously.

[zimmy24]

on a side note i just read this on wikipedia.

I;m gonna go mourn now and maybe shoot some Pakis(non mohajirs of course preferably punjabis)

Massacre of Alighar
On December 14, 1986, a group of armed Afghans, seized the Alighar, Orangi and Qasba colonies and adjacent areas of Karachi and killed innocent Muhajirs, burnt shops and houses, and raped women. The total no of Muhajirs killed was 286 the pakistan army which was stationed at asghar ali shah stadium that is just half a mile away did not intervine at the time but came six hours after the massacre had started. The Government to failed to take any action on time. This era has been dubbed the "Engineered Sectarian Chaos of Zia-ul-Haq"

:( Massacre of Alighar
On December 14, 1986, a group of armed Afghans, seized the Alighar, Orangi and Qasba colonies and adjacent areas of Karachi and killed innocent Muhajirs, burnt shops and houses, and raped women. The total no of Muhajirs killed was 286 the pakistan army which was stationed at asghar ali shah stadium that is just half a mile away did not intervine at the time but came six hours after the massacre had started. The Government to failed to take any action on time. This era has been dubbed the "Engineered Sectarian Chaos of Zia-ul-Haq"

Massacre of Alighar
On December 14, 1986, a group of armed Afghans, seized the Alighar, Orangi and Qasba colonies and adjacent areas of Karachi and killed innocent Muhajirs, burnt shops and houses, and raped women. The total no of Muhajirs killed was 286 the pakistan army which was stationed at asghar ali shah stadium that is just half a mile away did not intervine at the time but came six hours after the massacre had started. The Government to failed to take any action on time. This era has been dubbed the "Engineered Sectarian Chaos of Zia-ul-Haq"

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[ThomasMcCabe]

Hey lay off the profanities dude!

[zimmy24]

oh wait i mean afghans :(

[zimmy24]

Hey lay off the profanities dude!


u remind me of my ex boyfriend ADRENALINE. :love: he was really good in bed

RIP ADRENOOOO :(

[khanbaba_]

first of all, Pakistani is a nationality not an ethnicity.

and secondly, shut the fuck up

i bet all those ppl going on those "SAVE LEBANON" walks are pakis :ugh:
but in "SAVE KASHMIR" walks theres NEVER EVER ANY non desi there. ok maybe a few lost white ppl but no arabs at all.

stupid pakis take this "muslim brotherhood" thing wayyy to seriously.

80000 Kashmiris have been killed by the Indian army since 1989 and I see no one talking about it.

[ThomasMcCabe]

u remind me of my ex boyfriend ADRENALINE. :love: he was really good in bed

RIP ADRENOOOO :(
:neutral: Now what was that for?

[ThomasMcCabe]

80000 Kashmiris have been killed by the Indian army since 1989 and I see no one talking about it.
The Sunni warrior cometh.

[zimmy24]

80000 Kashmiris have been killed by the Indian army since 1989 and I see no one talking about it.

exactly! go on dcpersia or dc arabs whatever. would they EVER fly kashmir or paki flags? no way


Massacre of Alighar
On December 14, 1986, a group of armed Afghans, seized the Alighar, Orangi and Qasba colonies and adjacent areas of Karachi and killed innocent Muhajirs, burnt shops and houses, and raped women. The total no of Muhajirs killed was 286 the pakistan army which was stationed at asghar ali shah stadium that is just half a mile away did not intervine at the time but came six hours after the massacre had started. The Government to failed to take any action on time. This era has been dubbed the "Engineered Sectarian Chaos of Zia-ul-Haq"

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[hussa16]

Yo just shut the hell up.....you dont know what your talking about. People like you are the damn problem.

"Pakis take this muslim brotherhood shit too seriously"

What do you care anyway? Dont take it seriously...we'll see you has ur back.

[arbguy562]

first of all, Pakistani is a nationality not an ethnicity.

and secondly, shut the fuck up

i bet all those ppl going on those "SAVE LEBANON" walks are pakis :ugh:
but in "SAVE KASHMIR" walks theres NEVER EVER ANY non desi there. ok maybe a few lost white ppl but no arabs at all.

stupid pakis take this "muslim brotherhood" thing wayyy to seriously.

i agree. one should feel pity and anger for all those that are misfortuned be it muslim, christian, jewish, etc. some people take that muslim brotherhood stuff way too seriously. i feel a lot of the advocates of the muslim brotherhood promote an us vs. them mentality.

[zimmy24]

Yo just shut the hell up.....you dont know what your talking about. People like you are the damn problem.

"Pakis take this muslim brotherhood shit too seriously"

What do you care anyway? Dont take it seriously...we'll see you has ur back.


run along, go shoot some jews

[hussa16]

We dont advocate any shit. People put us in that position. When you dont drink and you can't eat out you'll know how it feels. Then you naturally end up hangning out with other muslims. Its not like we do it because we're racist. Its because we're more comfortable around our own ppl.

[hussa16]

run along, go shoot some jews

LOL your funny...a real muslim would never kill someone....and if he/she did he better have a good reason. Go ahead...make another stupid comment. I know I'll be able to refute it.

[arbguy562]

We dont advocate any shit. People put us in that position. When you dont drink and you can't eat out you'll know how it feels. Then you naturally end up hangning out with other muslims. Its not like we do it because we're racist. Its because we're more comfortable around our own ppl.

our own people? ask an arab or a persian if he like desis? ask a desi if he likes african muslims? besides islam these peoples dont share much culturally. islam is a multiethnic religion. arabs dont see persians, turks, desis, africans, bosnians, malays as their people. i doubt those groups see arabs as their people.

what the hell do you mean "when you dont drink and you cant eat out"?

[hussa16]

nm....anyway i'm done wasting time on you RD idiots...peace out fags

[mezaros]

nah the only reason some pakis think that is cuz of all the war in middle east wit muslims n stuff n pakis r muslims too so they think they part of all that shit. but personally.. i wudnt mind calling myself middle eastern its better then being called indian eww cuz then all these gay ass ppl wud ask y indians wear a red dot on their forehead n dangg i have no idea all i know its part of the hindu religion or something.. i find it a disgrace beign called an indian gahhhh ew lol. but w/e being a paki n punjabi im hella proud :D


LOL you see thats what im talking about, and I applaud this person for being honest, there is just something about India and Indians its I dunno I cant describe it, but its there.

Also yeah, the thing with you Pakis is you guys give all muslims a bad name, cause your all loud and extremist and Paki dominated mosques smell, they cant just relax and keep a low profile they have to stink up everything.

[(outlandish)]

Despite his Islamic upbringing, he studied the Bible and was baptized in a Christian church last year. His erratic behavior, and the shooting rampage, left friends grasping for answers


-Seattle Post


HE WAS A CHRISTIAN!

[(outlandish)]

our own people? ask an arab or a persian if he like desis? ask a desi if he likes african muslims? besides islam these peoples dont share much culturally. islam is a multiethnic religion. arabs dont see persians, turks, desis, africans, bosnians, malays as their people. i doubt those groups see arabs as their people.

what the hell do you mean "when you dont drink and you cant eat out"?


I disagree..

[(outlandish)]

LOL you see thats what im talking about, and I applaud this person for being honest, there is just something about India and Indians its I dunno I cant describe it, but its there.

Also yeah, the thing with you Pakis is you guys give all muslims a bad name, cause your all loud and extremist and Paki dominated mosques smell, they cant just relax and keep a low profile they have to stink up everything.


shut up