Hinduism & IDOLS...(Quick Question)

[Street_Scholar]

I want to ask my Hindu friends, why do they make idols when it is condemned in their own scriptures.

Please no attacks. This is just a question for Hindu "brothers" ......

Here is the supportive evidence.

Straight from Srimand Bhagvad Gita

Unable to understand my imperishable, exalted and supreem state of being, the spiritually deficient regard me, the unmenifest as coming into existance.
Bhagavad Gita
Chapter 7: Knowledge of the ultimat truth
Verse 24

"The ignorant believe that un-manifest Para Brahma (One God) incarnates or takes manifestations, because they do not completely understand My highest, immutable, incomparable, and transcendental existence."
OR
"I am not menifest to everyone, being veiled by my illusionary potency in the external energy. The ignorant in this world cannot understand me, the unborn and imperishable"
Bhagavad Gita
Chapter 7: Knowledge of the ultimat truth
Verse 25

SOURCE and TRANSLATION: http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-07-24.html

[Street_Scholar]

bump

[Space-Cowboy]

I want to ask my Hindu friends, why do they make idols when it is condemned in their own scriptures.

Please no attacks. This is just a question for Hindu "brothers" ......

Here is the supportive evidence.

Straight from Srimand Bhagvad Gita

Unable to understand my imperishable, exalted and supreem state of being, the spiritually deficient regard me, the unmenifest as coming into existance.
Bhagavad Gita
Chapter 7: Knowledge of the ultimat truth
Verse 24

"The ignorant believe that un-manifest Para Brahma (One God) incarnates or takes manifestations, because they do not completely understand My highest, immutable, incomparable, and transcendental existence."
OR
"I am not menifest to everyone, being veiled by my illusionary potency in the external energy. The ignorant in this world cannot understand me, the unborn and imperishable"
Bhagavad Gita
Chapter 7: Knowledge of the ultimat truth
Verse 25

SOURCE and TRANSLATION: http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-07-24.html


Pretty shitty translation of the word "ignorant".... Basically it's saying those who do not, or choose not, to understand the nature of The Ultimate Reality are given "visual aids" to help them sort it out; to help them realize that what they are really praying to isn't the stone statues, but the fact that they are a PART of this Ultimate Reality.... a PART of Brahman... and all things in existence exist as ONE.

Having said that, yes, I'm absolutely against praying to statues...... or praying at all. Meditation is the Way for me.

[Street_Scholar]

Pretty shitty translation of the word "ignorant".... Basically it's saying those who do not, or choose not, to understand the nature of The Ultimate Reality are given "visual aids" to help them sort it out; to help them realize that what they are really praying to isn't the stone statues, but the fact that they are a PART of this Ultimate Reality.... a PART of Brahman... and all things in existence exist as ONE.

Having said that, yes, I'm absolutely against praying to statues...... or praying at all. Meditation is the Way for me.

Are you lying to me MR? I've been researching. Its for a Uni thesis.

[Bajrang Bali]

I want to ask my Hindu friends, why do they make idols when it is condemned in their own scriptures.

Please no attacks. This is just a question for Hindu "brothers" ......

Here is the supportive evidence.

Straight from Srimand Bhagvad Gita

Unable to understand my imperishable, exalted and supreem state of being, the spiritually deficient regard me, the unmenifest as coming into existance.
Bhagavad Gita
Chapter 7: Knowledge of the ultimat truth
Verse 24

"The ignorant believe that un-manifest Para Brahma (One God) incarnates or takes manifestations, because they do not completely understand My highest, immutable, incomparable, and transcendental existence."
OR
"I am not menifest to everyone, being veiled by my illusionary potency in the external energy. The ignorant in this world cannot understand me, the unborn and imperishable"
Bhagavad Gita
Chapter 7: Knowledge of the ultimat truth
Verse 25

SOURCE and TRANSLATION: http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-07-24.html

http://www.hindusarise.com/faq.htm << my site answers these kinda questions

[southystyle]

i got a question for you..

how come the hindu "sisters" can't answer this...?

[Bajrang Bali]

i got a question for you..

how come the hindu "sisters" can't answer this...?

i kno its sad, im thinking of ways to get them involved, al lthey care about is makeup n material world

[bad_cheque]

Hinduism has different scriptures, interpretations and beliefs.

[Street_Scholar]

i got a question for you..

how come the hindu "sisters" can't answer this...?


Sure they can. I thought they might not know as much as a 'brother' if you get what I mean.

[Street_Scholar]

Hinduism has different scriptures, interpretations and beliefs.

And what is that supposed to mean. Its pretty straight forward what those verses say. Hindus are supposed to worship one god.

[Street_Scholar]

i kno its sad, im thinking of ways to get them involved, al lthey care about is makeup n material world

I thought you were a Sikh?

[Street_Scholar]

SC, The question is correct and the reference is correct too. The website given to you is a Hindu website and there is official translation present in many many languages……
Let me show how you have played with the words or your interpretation is flawed…..

Chapter 7: In chapter seven Lord Krishna gives concrete knowledge of the absolute reality as well as the opulence of divinity. He describes His illusory energy in the material existence called Maya and declares how extremely difficult it is to surmount it. He also describes the four types of people attracted to divinity and the four types of people who are opposed to divinty. In conclusion He reveals that one in spiritual intelligence takes exclusive refuge of the Lord without reservation in devotional service. Thus this chapter is entitled: Knowledge of the Ultimate Truth.

Lets have a look at the verse 24 as provided by the website

Unable to understand my imperishable, exalted and supreem state of being, the spiritually deficient regard me, the unmenifest as coming into existance.
Bhagavad Gita
Chapter 7: Knowledge of the ultimat truth
Verse 24

The next part of #24 says, “the unmenifest as coming into existence”. Now, who is the unmenifest???? It is according to Hindu mythology, PARA BRAHMA, one whom has nobody ever seen. The verse clearly means that that ONE God does not come into existence.

Okay lets take the first translation out as you didn’t like it. May I go to the verse 26 in the same translation? Thank you….. Verse 26 says….

O Arjuna, I know equally the past, present and the future and all living life forms but no one knows me”
Bhagavad Gita
Chapter 7: Knowledge of the ultimat truth
Verse 26

Please note the underlined sentence. “NO ONE KNOWS ME” Compare it with Verse #25 and its underlined sentence.

Krisna is well known in Hindu mythology as a “Shephard”, “a cowboy” and just a character of Hindu Epics. He is said to have 16,000 Gopi girlfriends. How come he is manifest to them? He is well known for stealing the clothes of the women taking bath at the streams who then plea Krishna to return their clothes and then Krishna asks then to come out of the stream naked one by one etc etc? How come Krishna is manifest to those Gopis…….. Who is the 3rd person seeing all this incident happening?
I can clearly see there is some thing wrong here ....

[Bajrang Bali]

I thought you were a Sikh?

no HINDU what made u thnk Sikh?

[Bajrang Bali]

SC, The question is correct and the reference is correct too. The website given to you is a Hindu website and there is official translation present in many many languages……
Let me show how you have played with the words or your interpretation is flawed…..

Chapter 7: In chapter seven Lord Krishna gives concrete knowledge of the absolute reality as well as the opulence of divinity. He describes His illusory energy in the material existence called Maya and declares how extremely difficult it is to surmount it. He also describes the four types of people attracted to divinity and the four types of people who are opposed to divinty. In conclusion He reveals that one in spiritual intelligence takes exclusive refuge of the Lord without reservation in devotional service. Thus this chapter is entitled: Knowledge of the Ultimate Truth.

Lets have a look at the verse 24 as provided by the website



The next part of #24 says, “the unmenifest as coming into existence”. Now, who is the unmenifest???? It is according to Hindu mythology, PARA BRAHMA, one whom has nobody ever seen. The verse clearly means that that ONE God does not come into existence.

Okay lets take the first translation out as you didn’t like it. May I go to the verse 26 in the same translation? Thank you….. Verse 26 says….



Please note the underlined sentence. “NO ONE KNOWS ME” Compare it with Verse #25 and its underlined sentence.

Krisna is well known in Hindu mythology as a “Shephard”, “a cowboy” and just a character of Hindu Epics. He is said to have 16,000 Gopi girlfriends. How come he is manifest to them? He is well known for stealing the clothes of the women taking bath at the streams who then plea Krishna to return their clothes and then Krishna asks then to come out of the stream naked one by one etc etc? How come Krishna is manifest to those Gopis…….. Who is the 3rd person seeing all this incident happening?

I can clearly see there is some thing wrong here ....

i think by "but noone knows me" he means because no human-embodied form is pure except avatars such as Krishna himself

[Street_Scholar]

no HINDU what made u thnk Sikh?


The Orange flag.

[Bajrang Bali]

I want to ask my Hindu friends, why do they make idols when it is condemned in their own scriptures.

i dont see any scriptures condemning it

[Street_Scholar]

i think by "but noone knows me" he means because no human-embodied form is pure except avatars such as Krishna himself

Come on, that doesn't make any sense. READ THE VERSES, I know Hindus can selectively take verses and follow them however I mean if there is an issue here I don't see why a my Hindu brothers are not coming out with the truth?

[Bajrang Bali]

The Orange flag.

sikh flag would have khanda and probably be mroe yellowish, this triangular saffron flags is ancient and represents rightiousness, Krishna's chariot holds it high

[Bajrang Bali]

Come on, that doesn't make any sense. READ THE VERSES, I know Hindus can selectively take verses and follow them however I mean if there is an issue here I don't see why a my Hindu brothers are not coming out with the truth?

stop trying to convert people, if u wuna be able to understand and get Hindu scriptures being a Muslim, u have to temporarily shed your islamic beliefs, otherwise u'll never get it

[Street_Scholar]

Lets get a background.

Chapter one introduces the scene, the setting, the circumstances and the characters involved determining the reasons for the Bhagavad-Gita's revelation. The scene is the sacred plain of Kuruksetra. The setting is a battlefield. The circumstances is war. The main characters are the Supreme Lord Krishna and Prince Arjuna, witnessed by four million soldiers led by their respective military commanders. After naming the principal warriors on both sides, Arjunas growing dejection is described due to the fear of losing friends and relatives in the course of the impending war and the subsequent sins attached to such actions. Thus this chapter is entitled: Lamenting the Consequence of War.

Point 1: This means there were 4 million soldiers witnessing Lord Krishna and Prince Arjun.....I see serious problems here bud, very serious problems.

Point 2: Moreover, if Lord Krishna was only visible to Arjun, then why does the style of writting seems to be as if a 3rd person is watching all this???????????? In that case, Bhagwad geeta would have been written by Arjun in this following manner, " Then Lord Krishna asked/told me" Then I saw Lord Krishna....." It should have been written in second person gramatically............

Read the translation yourself here: http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/chapter-01.html

[Street_Scholar]

stop trying to convert people, if u wuna be able to understand and get Hindu scriptures being a Muslim, u have to temporarily shed your islamic beliefs, otherwise u'll never get it

I've been reading and comprehending. I invite you my Hindu brother to read the Qu'ran. ;)
http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation_index.php

[bad_cheque]

And what is that supposed to mean. Its pretty straight forward what those verses say. Hindus are supposed to worship one god.
There are many scriptures and it is not mandatory to follow everyone of them.

We are not bound by a book or a set of books.

What is your aim? To prove that Islam is the real Hinduism?

Getouttahere!

[Bajrang Bali]

Lets get a background.

Chapter one introduces the scene, the setting, the circumstances and the characters involved determining the reasons for the Bhagavad-Gita's revelation. The scene is the sacred plain of Kuruksetra. The setting is a battlefield. The circumstances is war. The main characters are the Supreme Lord Krishna and Prince Arjuna, witnessed by four million soldiers led by their respective military commanders. After naming the principal warriors on both sides, Arjunas growing dejection is described due to the fear of losing friends and relatives in the course of the impending war and the subsequent sins attached to such actions. Thus this chapter is entitled: Lamenting the Consequence of War.

Point 1: This means there were 4 million soldiers witnessing Lord Krishna and Prince Arjun.....I see serious problems here bud, very serious problems.

Point 2: Moreover, if Lord Krishna was only visible to Arjun, then why does the style of writting seems to be as if a 3rd person is watching all this???????????? In that case, Bhagwad geeta would have been written by Arjun in this following manner, " Then Lord Krishna asked/told me" Then I saw Lord Krishna....." It should have been written in second person gramatically............

Read the translation yourself here: http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/chapter-01.html

4million army-men meaning they witnessed the war led by Arjun/Krishna, not their conversation

the 3rd person is apauruseya, no it shouldnt of been written in 2nd person, that would mean Arjuna wrote it!

[Street_Scholar]

There are many scriptures and it is not mandatory to follow everyone of them.

We are not bound by a book or a set of books.

What is your aim? To prove that Islam is the real Hinduism?

Getouttahere!

Something like, I want to prove that even true Hindus worship Allah. Just get rid off those idols, believe in Mohammad (pbuh) and you'll all be good Muslims. Let go of this primitive belief system of Idol worship. Wake up look at your own scriptures comprehend them understand then and then look at Islam, and I tell you, you'll see the reality. Islam is the ultimate truth. Truth is universal you can't confine it, and if you try to confine it or hide it it will always come out eventually.


Note you say, you're not bound by any verse, then what is the problem if you convert to Islam? as you don't take your verse literally? or selectively use them?

[Street_Scholar]

4million army-men meaning they witnessed the war led by Arjun/Krishna, not their conversation

the 3rd person is apauruseya, no it shouldnt of been written in 2nd person, that would mean Arjuna wrote it!

Wait a second. Krishna shows Arjun his manifested form, encompassing all the galaxies and the universe (Para Brahma), all others are blinded by it. Only Arjun was fortunate to see it. So what are you talking about? they must have heard the conversation if not then that is a contradiction in the scriptures. My brother try to see sense.

[Bajrang Bali]

I've been reading and comprehending. I invite you my Hindu brother to read the Qu'ran. ;)
http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation_index.php

ive already read from every chapter of quran, to be honest it made me furious and was a huge turn off to Islam

[Street_Scholar]

ive already read from every chapter of quran, to be honest it made me furious and was a huge turn off to Islam

OK, can you be more specific rather then just saying that. Tell me which verses which parts which chapters, frankly I think you're lying and have not read it.

[misspathani.]

ive already read from every chapter of quran, to be honest it made me furious and was a huge turn off to Islam

Give an example

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Ya know as a Muslim myself I find it absolute DISPICABLE people put so much effort in trying to MAKE people from other religions Muslims. WHILE people who are already Muslims are NOT followers of Islam.

[Bajrang Bali]

OK, can you be more specific rather then just saying that. Tell me which verses which parts which chapters, frankly I think you're lying and have not read it.

haha believe me I have and in essence it taugh me nothing that Hinduism hasn't already taugh me, it also teaches ONE GOD, ONE TRUTH, but not MANY PATHS

Islam talks about a material salvation with wines silk virgins mutton etc, this is not divine, soul was never created and will never die.. if you're to learn anything about Hinduism, learn the concept of moksha, eteernal means never created AND never will die

[Street_Scholar]

Ya know as a Muslim myself I find it absolute DISPICABLE people put so much effort in trying to MAKE people from other religions Muslims. WHILE people who are already Muslims are NOT followers of Islam.

Am trying to understand something. And at the same time inviting my Hindu brothers to read the Qu'ran, just like I am reading their scriptures. And If I don't understand something I ask my Hindu brothers, and then I debate them on some of the things, however I would like Hindu brothers and sisters to do the same rather then just dismissing Islam for the reason that they do no understand a concept of it.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

http://www.hindusarise.com/faq.htm << my site answers these kinda questions

This one gave me a chuckle VVVVVV

5. Is Hinduism based only in India or that only Indians can be Hindus?

ANSWER
=======
Anyone and Everyone is a Hindu. Hinduism is all-encompassing and non-exclusive. As a Hindu, one is not restricted to practicing only Hinduism alone, as a Hindu is allowed to practice other religions. Although Hinduism is primarily based in India it is also practiced all over Indonesia, and was the official religion of the Khmer and Champa Empires of Cambodia and Vietnam respectively. Many westerners adopted Hindu beliefs also, including John Lennon, Henry David Thereau, and Anne Bessant. Hinduism is for everyone


I guess the Varna Dharma stuff that lasted a few thousand years was just a myth :sarb:

[Street_Scholar]

haha believe me I have and in essence it taugh me nothing that Hinduism hasn't already taugh me, it also teaches ONE GOD, ONE TRUTH, but not MANY PATHS

Islam talks about a material salvation with wines silk virgins mutton etc, this is not divine, soul was never created and will never die.. if you're to learn anything about Hinduism, learn the concept of moksha, eteernal means never created AND never will die

OK tell me something, you do believe the universe was created right? Also tell me this we all know the earth is not going to exist for ever (eternity) eventually the sun will die (about 5 Billion years time) and the sun will expand and engulf the planets. Then what? reincarnation goes out of the window, there will be nothing left to reincarnate into.

Also bro I don't agree with this many paths, if you take a journey you can't take any route to get to a specific destination, you have to take the correct route.

[Bajrang Bali]

This one gave me a chuckle VVVVVV




I guess the Varna Dharma stuff that lasted a few thousand years was just a myth :sarb:

8. Why is there a caste system? Doesn't it promote in equality?

ANSWER
=======
The caste system was created not based on hereditary but on actual duty. The caste system itself was nothing more than a way to divide labor based on the individual's ability. Unfortunately, this system was abused by the brahmins and kshatriyas to ensure that their progeny would maintain the same caste.

[Geezer]

'quick question' eh?

[Street_Scholar]

'quick question' eh?

I thought SC, didn't answer the question very well. If you think, the topic is breaking the rules, then feel free to lock the topic.

[Bajrang Bali]

OK tell me something, you do believe the universe was created right? Also tell me this we all know the earth is not going to exist for ever (eternity) eventually the sun will die (about 5 Billion years time) and the sun will expand and engulf the planets. Then what? reincarnation goes out of the window, there will be nothing left to reincarnate into.

ur missing the concept of divinity, worlds for on forever and ever, they are infinite in number.. according to hinduiosm when this earth is destroyed, the same matter will evolve into another world, meanwhile souls float around or go to another world i forget which or if it's both, this is explained in great detail in vedanta how worlds are recycled

[Street_Scholar]

ur missing the concept of divinity, worlds for on forever and ever, they are infinite in number.. according to hinduiosm when this earth is destroyed, the same matter will evolve into another world, meanwhile souls float around or go to another world i forget which or if it's both, this is explained in great detail in vedanta how worlds are recycled


Give me some links...

[Geezer]

Ok so mr righteous, since you're inviting everyone to the truth...why did you post that thread about the girl you are 'dating' in GC and instead in the VIP area? Afraid that you might look like a hypocrite?

[misspathani.]

One of the greatest attributes of Allaah is wisdom, and one of His greatest names is al-Hakeem (the most Wise). It should be noted that He has not created anything in vain; exalted be Allaah far above such a thing. Rather He creates things for great and wise reasons, and for sublime purposes. Those who know them know them and those who do not know them do not know them. Allaah has stated that in His Holy Book, where He says that He has not created mankind in vain, and He has not created the heavens and the earth in vain. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?”


116. So Exalted be Allaah, the True King: Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Lord of the Supreme Throne!”
[al-Mu’minoon 23:115, 116]

“while those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat as cattle eat; and the Fire will be their abode”
[Muhammad 47:12]

“Leave them to eat and enjoy, and let them be preoccupied with (false) hope. They will come to know!”
[al-Hijr 15:3]

“And surely, We have created many of the jinn and mankind for Hell. They have hearts wherewith they understand not, and they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones”
[al-A’raaf 7:179]

What's the puropse of life? To worship statues?

[Leon 007]

Ya know as a Muslim myself I find it absolute DISPICABLE people put so much effort in trying to MAKE people from other religions Muslims. WHILE people who are already Muslims are NOT followers of Islam.
he's not forcing anyone to become muslim just showing the evidence theres nothing wrong wi that

[Street_Scholar]

Ok so mr righteous, since you're inviting everyone to the truth...why did you post that thread about the girl you are 'dating' in GC and instead in the VIP area? Afraid that you might look like a hypocrite?

Thats totally different. Not everyone is prefect. Even if I am a bad Muslim that doesn't mean I shouldn't tell others about Islam or tell them to have a look. Its not about being a hypocrite its about hiding your sins. Also, I have my own concepts of some of the things.

[Geezer]

Thats totally different. Not everyone is prefect. Even if I am a bad Muslim that doesn't mean I shouldn't tell others about Islam or tell them to have a look. Its not about being a hypocrite its about hiding your sins. Also, I have my own concepts of some of the things.

Hiding your sins eh, allah is all knowing and all seeing and Im sure your 'concepts' wouldnt necessarily comply with the religion you claim to be so smitten with. Your sword is doublesided.

Also, stop harassing members via PM.

[Street_Scholar]

Hiding your sins eh, allah is all knowing and all seeing and Im sure your 'concepts' wouldnt necessarily comply with the religion you claim to be so smitten with. Your sword is doublesided.

Also, stop harassing members via PM.

Obviously not. Its about hiding your sins from people not god. Its about not going around and propagating them or proliferating them. Its about keeping them low-key.

Lol at harassing I only sent one PM. lol But yeah sure!

Anyway I didn't make this topic to create offense at Hindus, am going a Uni thesis and I need some info on some things.

[Bajrang Bali]

Give me some links...

http://www.metanexus.net/metanexus_online/show_article2.asp?id=8021

http://www.johndobson.org/articles/physicsvedanta.html

http://www.vedanta-newyork.org/articles/cosmology_in_vedanta.htm

http://www.bikramyoga.com/Yoga/PhysicsVedanta.htm

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Big_Bang_Theory/id/221192

http://www.indiaoz.com.au/hinduism/articles/quantum_physics_bells.shtml

http://www.atributetohinduism.com/articles_hinduism/193.htm

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

haha believe me I have and in essence it taugh me nothing that Hinduism hasn't already taugh me, it also teaches ONE GOD, ONE TRUTH, but not MANY PATHS

Islam talks about a material salvation with wines silk virgins mutton etc, this is not divine, soul was never created and will never die.. if you're to learn anything about Hinduism, learn the concept of moksha, eteernal means never created AND never will die

you have a misunderstanding regarding Islam's position of salvation. In Islam we believe the deeds we render on earth become take different forms beyond the life of this realm. This is taken from the Prophetic Saying.

"Good deeds take beautiful shapes".

Allah(swt) does grant rewards of pleasures in heavan. However there are also different stages of heavan and each stage is granted to people depending on how much the strived and what their intentions were.

The People who strive to seek Allah(swt), will be able to become engrossed in the Wonder of Allah(swt)'s Being in Heavan. This is revealed in the Quran as well as the ahadith.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

8. Why is there a caste system? Doesn't it promote in equality?

ANSWER
=======
The caste system was created not based on hereditary but on actual duty. The caste system itself was nothing more than a way to divide labor based on the individual's ability. Unfortunately, this system was abused by the brahmins and kshatriyas to ensure that their progeny would maintain the same caste.


So this means that the Scriptures which are considered Holy, which reflect the disparities of the Varna Dharma system were forged? :D

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Hiding your sins eh, allah is all knowing and all seeing and Im sure your 'concepts' wouldnt necessarily comply with the religion you claim to be so smitten with. Your sword is doublesided.

Also, stop harassing members via PM.


IN Islam , we're not supposed to reveal our sins TO OTHERS , Allah(swt) knows your sins, He Knows everything. We should not openly reveal our sinful actions is because the Day of Judgement will be Somewhat Like a Trial, and the people who witnessed you doing someone sinful or heard you confessing that you did something sinful or participated with you, will be summoned and they will affirm your guilt and that will be what God shows you he evaluated your worthiness for Punishment.

[Bajrang Bali]

So this means that the Scriptures which are considered Holy, which reflect the disparities of the Varna Dharma system were forged? :D

lol, im a Hindu religious freak and never even heard of the term "varna dharma" its fabricated bs.. if u wish to learn about Indian caste and it's connection with Vedas, read it from the source

[misspathani.]

Mahshallh my brother's friend who was a hindu before reverted to Islam. It's been a week and a half now. He saw the truth. May Allah reward him for that. It's made him a much better person.

[Bajrang Bali]

Mahshallh my brother's friend who was a hindu before reverted to Islam. It's been a week and a half now. He saw the truth. May Allah reward him for that. It's made him a much better person.

lol, now he wont go to hell :gay:

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

lol, im a Hindu religious freak and never even heard of the term "varna dharma" its fabricated bs.. if u wish to learn about Indian caste and it's connection with Vedas, read it from the source


http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/sep96/0086.html

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

he's not forcing anyone to become muslim just showing the evidence theres nothing wrong wi that


It's not about forcing its about PRIORITIES.


WE dont say ANYTHING when Muslims are doing shameful things yet we're out trying to convert others?

thats ridiculous.

[Bajrang Bali]

http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/sep96/0086.html

this is a good messege, do u understand what he's saying?

[Street_Scholar]

Topics gone a little 'off topic' I want Adrenaline and Space-Cowboy to answer my questions.

[misspathani.]

lol, now he wont go to hell :gay:

What makes you think all muslims will go straight ot heaven?
If he is successful in this life then inshallah he will go to heaven if Allah wants him to.

I've seen more muslims revert others to Islam than any other person from a different religion trying to convert someone into their religion.
Islam-The truth.

[Bajrang Bali]

What makes you think all muslims will go straight ot heaven?
If he is successful in this life then inshallah he will go to heaven if Allah wants him to.

I've seen more muslims revert others to Islam than any other person from a different religion trying to convert someone into their religion.
Islam-The truth.

not more than southern baptists, lol

[Street_Scholar]

not more than southern baptists, lol

Allah decides who goes to hell and who doesn't, based on his deeds its like a Karma concept.

[Bajrang Bali]

Allah decides who goes to hell and who doesn't, based on his deeds its like a Karma concept.

no it is NOT like the karma concept

[Space-Cowboy]

SC, The question is correct and the reference is correct too. The website given to you is a Hindu website and there is official translation present in many many languages……
Let me show how you have played with the words or your interpretation is flawed…..

Chapter 7: In chapter seven Lord Krishna gives concrete knowledge of the absolute reality as well as the opulence of divinity. He describes His illusory energy in the material existence called Maya and declares how extremely difficult it is to surmount it. He also describes the four types of people attracted to divinity and the four types of people who are opposed to divinty. In conclusion He reveals that one in spiritual intelligence takes exclusive refuge of the Lord without reservation in devotional service. Thus this chapter is entitled: Knowledge of the Ultimate Truth.

Lets have a look at the verse 24 as provided by the website



The next part of #24 says, “the unmenifest as coming into existence”. Now, who is the unmenifest???? It is according to Hindu mythology, PARA BRAHMA, one whom has nobody ever seen. The verse clearly means that that ONE God does not come into existence.

Okay lets take the first translation out as you didn’t like it. May I go to the verse 26 in the same translation? Thank you….. Verse 26 says….



Please note the underlined sentence. “NO ONE KNOWS ME” Compare it with Verse #25 and its underlined sentence.

Krisna is well known in Hindu mythology as a “Shephard”, “a cowboy” and just a character of Hindu Epics. He is said to have 16,000 Gopi girlfriends. How come he is manifest to them? He is well known for stealing the clothes of the women taking bath at the streams who then plea Krishna to return their clothes and then Krishna asks then to come out of the stream naked one by one etc etc? How come Krishna is manifest to those Gopis…….. Who is the 3rd person seeing all this incident happening?
I can clearly see there is some thing wrong here ....

Not sure what you're getting at, show me the EXACT line that says THOU SHALT NOT WORSHIP IDOLS..

There is none. The fact that "Krishna" is referenced shows the fact that it's ok to worship Avatars..

[Space-Cowboy]

Lets get a background.

Chapter one introduces the scene, the setting, the circumstances and the characters involved determining the reasons for the Bhagavad-Gita's revelation. The scene is the sacred plain of Kuruksetra. The setting is a battlefield. The circumstances is war. The main characters are the Supreme Lord Krishna and Prince Arjuna, witnessed by four million soldiers led by their respective military commanders. After naming the principal warriors on both sides, Arjunas growing dejection is described due to the fear of losing friends and relatives in the course of the impending war and the subsequent sins attached to such actions. Thus this chapter is entitled: Lamenting the Consequence of War.

Point 1: This means there were 4 million soldiers witnessing Lord Krishna and Prince Arjun.....I see serious problems here bud, very serious problems.

Point 2: Moreover, if Lord Krishna was only visible to Arjun, then why does the style of writting seems to be as if a 3rd person is watching all this???????????? In that case, Bhagwad geeta would have been written by Arjun in this following manner, " Then Lord Krishna asked/told me" Then I saw Lord Krishna....." It should have been written in second person gramatically............

Read the translation yourself here: http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/chapter-01.html


You need to learn to differentiate between Hindu MYTHOLOGY and Hindu PHILOSOPHY.

[Space-Cowboy]

Something like, I want to prove that even true Hindus worship Allah. Just get rid off those idols, believe in Mohammad (pbuh) and you'll all be good Muslims. Let go of this primitive belief system of Idol worship. Wake up look at your own scriptures comprehend them understand then and then look at Islam, and I tell you, you'll see the reality. Islam is the ultimate truth. Truth is universal you can't confine it, and if you try to confine it or hide it it will always come out eventually.


Note you say, you're not bound by any verse, then what is the problem if you convert to Islam? as you don't take your verse literally? or selectively use them?


True Hindus don't worship Allah.... True Hindus realize that they, and all their surroundings, and all of Universe, is ONE with Brahman [what you call Allah].

[Space-Cowboy]

So this means that the Scriptures which are considered Holy, which reflect the disparities of the Varna Dharma system were forged? :D


The MAIN scriptures of Hinduism, the Vedas, makes no mention of hereditary based caste system. Vedas are flawless, some of its followers [i.e. Brahmins] however necessarily weren't.

[adren@line]

dude, your understanding of Hinduism is amateur at best.

To begin with, Krishna himself was a supposed incarnate of God.
Did Krishna refute himself in the Gita?


Two, our "One God" is different from the Islamic "One God".

Your dualistic creator God is considered just as illusionary as polytheism and is considered a product of ignorance.

Islam= dualistic.
"One" God, that is seperate from creation. A seperate entity.

This is considered a form of ignorance in Monistic Hinduism, which is what the Gita fundamentally teaches.

Hindu thought = Monism.
ALL is God.
God is all that exists.
There is nothing else.

What we percieve as reality as an illussion.

I direct you to an image I have found that explains this well:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9845/5manlevelgod9sm.png
the "materialistic monism" represents the low-end of spiritual development while non-dualism represents the high end (this is where enlightend Buddhists are).

Hindus use the practices that appear to be materialistic monism to acheive a very, very, very high degree of spirituality and state of being that supercedes Islam and its monotheism. Its using one method of worship on one end of the scale to acheive something that is very complex and abstract.

Its kind of like how Buddhists use a candle to meditate.

a Hindu who converts to Islam is downgrading in their sprititual evolution, as Islam usually exists only at the "soul" level. Its dualistic.

Dualism = ignorance.

The only Muslims who get to the "self" level are Sufis, who believe in the same ideas as Hindus and Buddhists (atleast many of the ideas) , but attach the Quran to it.

The problem with that is that Sufis came to the same realizations that Hindus and Buddhists did nearly 3000+ years later.

As far as idol worshipping, see this:
http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=116916

Hinduism isnt a linear tradition.
It has many texts and many traditions, depending on time and place.

[adren@line]

that post ^ was for Street Scholar.


I didnt read any of the other posts in this topic.

:D

[adren@line]

I also direct you to this http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=145649&highlight=atheists+argument

which compares the Dualistic God to the Monistic/non-Dualistic God.

[Space-Cowboy]

Mahshallh my brother's friend who was a hindu before reverted to Islam. It's been a week and a half now. He saw the truth. May Allah reward him for that. It's made him a much better person.


To each his own, I guess. One of my Mom's friend, who was Muslim before, started reading Vedic scriptures a couple of years ago, and has "converted" and taken on Hindu beliefs... and remains a devout Hindu to this day, and has become a much better as a result [her family of course disowned her, but that's a different story].

[adren@line]

yeah people convert OUT of Islam all the time:


Some 1,000 Malays renounce Islam a month.
http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/malaysia.htm

[Space-Cowboy]

yeah people convert OUT of Islam all the time:


Some 1,000 Malays renounce Islam a month.
http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/malaysia.htm



hurry up and get un-lamed already... ;)

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

Why da fuk do u desis do nuttin but debate about religion all da damn time, ye okay if ur proud of who you are then fine, believe what you wanna believe, i hate seein all these dumb ass threads started by everyone, yes everyone, hindus, muslims, sikhs and you all talk the same shit, about how u dont want to offend anyone and jus wanna ask a question, shut da fuk up already!

This is why so many desis cant move forward cuz even when the whitemans not dividing you all up, you all still find religion to argue about, shame on you, and to think that the god for whom your arguin is one!

When you look at it, everyone worships one god, be it the muslims, sikhs, christians and yes the hindus too!

I bet god laughs at u ignorant fukz and cant wait to chuck all u trouble causin fools in hell!!!!

[Space-Cowboy]

Why da fuk do u desis do nuttin but debate about religion all da damn time, ye okay if ur proud of who you are then fine, believe what you wanna believe, i hate seein all these dumb ass threads started by everyone, yes everyone, hindus, muslims, sikhs and you all talk the same shit, about how u dont want to offend anyone and jus wanna ask a question, shut da fuk up already!

This is why so many desis cant move forward cuz even when the whitemans not dividing you all up, you all still find religion to argue about, shame on you, and to think that the god for whom your arguin is one!

When you look at it, everyone worships one god, be it the muslims, sikhs, christians and yes the hindus too!

I bet god laughs at u ignorant fukz and cant wait to chuck all u trouble causin fools in hell!!!!


White-man has been 'dividing' us since the time of the British, this is nothing new.... ? :sarb:

[Street_Scholar]

dude, your understanding of Hinduism is amateur at best.

To begin with, Krishna himself was a supposed incarnate of God.
Did Krishna refute himself in the Gita?


Two, our "One God" is different from the Islamic "One God".

Your dualistic creator God is considered just as illusionary as polytheism and is considered a product of ignorance.

Islam= dualistic.
"One" God, that is seperate from creation. A seperate entity.

This is considered a form of ignorance in Monistic Hinduism, which is what the Gita fundamentally teaches.

Hindu thought = Monism.
ALL is God.
God is all that exists.
There is nothing else.

What we percieve as reality as an illussion.

I direct you to an image I have found that explains this well:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9845/5manlevelgod9sm.png
the "materialistic monism" represents the low-end of spiritual development while non-dualism represents the high end (this is where enlightend Buddhists are).

Hindus use the practices that appear to be materialistic monism to acheive a very, very, very high degree of spirituality and state of being that supercedes Islam and its monotheism. Its using one method of worship on one end of the scale to acheive something that is very complex and abstract.

Its kind of like how Buddhists use a candle to meditate.

a Hindu who converts to Islam is downgrading in their sprititual evolution, as Islam usually exists only at the "soul" level. Its dualistic.

Dualism = ignorance.

The only Muslims who get to the "self" level are Sufis, who believe in the same ideas as Hindus and Buddhists (atleast many of the ideas) , but attach the Quran to it.

The problem with that is that Sufis came to the same realizations that Hindus and Buddhists did nearly 3000+ years later.

As far as idol worshipping, see this:
http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=116916

Hinduism isnt a linear tradition.
It has many texts and many traditions, depending on time and place.

I don't know why you posted that, that doesn't have anything to do with my questions. And no way does it answer them either.

[Street_Scholar]

Why da fuk do u desis do nuttin but debate about religion all da damn time, ye okay if ur proud of who you are then fine, believe what you wanna believe, i hate seein all these dumb ass threads started by everyone, yes everyone, hindus, muslims, sikhs and you all talk the same shit, about how u dont want to offend anyone and jus wanna ask a question, shut da fuk up already!

This is why so many desis cant move forward cuz even when the whitemans not dividing you all up, you all still find religion to argue about, shame on you, and to think that the god for whom your arguin is one!

When you look at it, everyone worships one god, be it the muslims, sikhs, christians and yes the hindus too!

I bet god laughs at u ignorant fukz and cant wait to chuck all u trouble causin fools in hell!!!!


What ever man.

[Space-Cowboy]

What ever man.


He's got a point tho, however off topic it is, White Man has always been a dividing force. Anyway, I believe I've answered your question briefly, and Adren and Paulie and Bali have gone into greater detail.

[Street_Scholar]

4million army-men meaning they witnessed the war led by Arjun/Krishna, not their conversation

the 3rd person is apauruseya, no it shouldnt of been written in 2nd person, that would mean Arjuna wrote it!


Chapter one introduces the scene, the setting, the circumstances and the characters involved determining the reasons for the Bhagavad-Gita's revelation. The scene is the sacred plain of Kuruksetra. The setting is a battlefield. The circumstances is war. The main characters are the Supreme Lord Krishna and Prince Arjuna, witnessed by four million soldiers led by their respective military commanders. After naming the principal warriors on both sides, Arjunas growing dejection is described due to the fear of losing friends and relatives in the course of the impending war and the subsequent sins attached to such actions. Thus this chapter is entitled: Lamenting the Consequence of War.

Compare the quoted text with the one you wrote. Do you feel any difference??? To me there is a big big difference So you are confirming that the claim of Lord Krishna was wrong in saying that NOBODY HAS SEEN HIM.

So you are confirming that 4 million people did witness Lord Krishna and Arjun...... RGHT?

the 3rd person is apauruseya, no it shouldnt of been written in 2nd person, that would mean Arjuna wrote it!

Compare the colored text. Do you see any difference? I see Big Big difference

What do you mean "that would mean Arjuna wrote it" ?

Why don't you say YES, For sure Arjuna wrote it?

Who is the author of Bhagavad Gita? Do you understand the difference between "writting" something and "reveletion" ?

Probably the one who translated this text needs to be sent to an English School. Poor Hindu translator .

You are the worst debator I have ever seen. One who digs a ditch for himself.

[Street_Scholar]

He's got a point tho, however off topic it is, White Man has always been a dividing force. Anyway, I believe I've answered your question briefly, and Adren and Paulie and Bali have gone into greater detail.

Look I would not have made this topic. But its for a uni thesis. I don't want to offend anyone. I can understand where you're coming from though...

Adrenaline could have answer the question yet he posted something totally irrelevant to the topic, I was actually humorous when I was reading what he posted.

[Space-Cowboy]

Look I would not have made this topic. But its for a uni thesis. I don't want to offend anyone. I can understand where you're coming from though...

Adrenaline could have answer the question yet he posted something totally irrelevant to the topic, I was actually humorous when I was reading what he posted.


Why don't you go into further detail to exactly what this thesis is about then.... what you plan as your thesis statement, your argument, and what you ultimately plan to derive from this writing piece. And what course is this for? If you want help from the forums, you've got to give full disclosure.

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

What ever man.

I've seen ya post on here b4, most of the times its to do with religion, all i'm sayin i dont see the point, what are u supposed to be a messenger ?

Well dont quit ya day job!
And remember jus cuz ur muslim don't mean ya have to speak about nothing but that, get over it!

[Geezer]

Well Street_Scholar has been lamed now(you'll have your money refunded too) so he wont be trolling around anymore.

Topic locked.