What makes a muslim a muslim?

[pimpkidman828]

i think it's, if u believe in the first kalma, u are muslim. discuss..

[KhanNoonienSingh]

i think it's, if u believe in the first kalma, u are muslim. discuss..

that's the official word on it.

actually the official word is just to RECITE the shahadah...to believe in it is a different story.

[pimpkidman828]

that's the official word on it.

actually the official word is just to RECITE the shahadah...to believe in it is a different story.
yah, preety much, well that what i thought, but others don't agree.

[pathanipakora]

yep just reading the shadah makes u a muslim, rest is up to u wht u do or dont do to be a good muslim

[sub-zero]

actually following the rules set by koran

[pacora]

beleiving in the first kalima makes you a Muslim. good or bad, proper believer or not depends on deeds.

[hindu_heat]

thats like claiming you're a CEO when you work for yourself, to be a muslim, you have to believe and practice.

[pimpkidman828]

thats like claiming you're a CEO when you work for yourself, to be a muslim, you have to believe and practice.
um.. not really, a muslim is sum 1 who belives in Allah and the prophet as his messenger. kinda like to be a hindu u gotta belive in the trillion god's

[pimpkidman828]

actually following the rules set by koran
that's not even a pillar of islam.

[hindu_heat]

um.. not really, a muslim is sum 1 who belives in Allah and the prophet as his messenger. kinda like to be a hindu u gotta belive in the trillion god's

what you assumed about the hindu religion is completely incorrect, just saying you believe in allah and the prophet is one thing, but if your actions are completely un-muslim, are you really a muslim?

[zamhussain]

that's the official word on it.

actually the official word is just to RECITE the shahadah...to believe in it is a different story.

deres no point recitin it if u dnt believe in it dat aint no different story but if u follow or not its up2 u know dats a different story if u dnt believe wat you hav recitied da (kalma) saying dat "theres no god but allah and muhammad is the messenger of allah" den deres no point in sayin dat ur a muslim

[pimpkidman828]

what you assumed about the hindu religion is completely incorrect, just saying you believe in allah and the prophet is one thing, but if your actions are completely un-muslim, are you really a muslim?
YEs u are, that's what islam is, But does that mean u'll go to heaven? no, But atleast u belive in the right faith.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

deres no point recitin it if u dnt believe in it dat aint no different story but if u follow or not its up2 u know dats a different story if u dnt believe wat you hav recitied da (kalma) saying dat "theres no god but allah and muhammad is the messenger of allah" den deres no point in sayin dat ur a muslim

i meant as far as other people are concerned. we can't know what is in people's hearts unfortunately, so if they say shahadah that is good enough for us (fellow people), but they still have to answer to God eventually.

the best we can do is trust Allah and hope the Muslims we encounter are of true heart.

[hindu_heat]

YEs u are, that's what islam is, But does that mean u'll go to heaven? no, But atleast u belive in the right faith.

typical ignorant fundie muslims :no:

[lili420]

what you assumed about the hindu religion is completely incorrect, just saying you believe in allah and the prophet is one thing, but if your actions are completely un-muslim, are you really a muslim?
well you are a Muslim, if you truly believe that, but the rest is really up to Allah to decide who is a good Muslim and who is not, and whose deeds to accept and whose to not..

[Geezer]

typical ignorant fundie muslims :no:

Stop provoking, that's all you have done in this thread.

[selina_786]

well you are a Muslim, if you truly believe that, but the rest is really up to Allah to decide who is a good Muslim and who is not, and whose deeds to accept and whose to not..Yea it's true.. but to believe is to follow?

[lili420]

Yea it's true.. but to believe is to follow?
true, i know what your saying, but if im saying its not our right to call someone a non-Muslim if they dont follow, but we can call someone a non-Muslim if they dont believe at all. Thats the only difference. otherwise, folowing is believing :)

[zamhussain]

The literal meaning of Islam is peace; surrender of one’s will i.e. losing oneself for the sake of God and surrendering one’s own pleasure for the pleasure of God. The message of Islam was revealed to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) 1, 400 years ago. It was revealed through angel Gabriel (on whom be peace) and was thus preserved in the Holy Quran. The Holy Quran carries a Divine guarantee of safeguard from interpolation and it claims that it combines the best features of the earlier scriptures.

The prime message of Islam is the Unity of God, that the Creator of the world is One and He alone is worthy of worship and that Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) is His Messenger and Servant. The follower of this belief is thus a Muslim - a Muslim’s other beliefs are: God’s angels, previously revealed Books of God, all the prophets, from Adam to Jesus (peace be on them both), the Day of Judgement and indeed the Decree of God. A Muslim has five main duties to perform, namely; bearing witness to the Unity of God and Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) as His Messenger, observing the prescribed prayer, payment of Zakat, keeping the fasts of Ramadhan and performing the pilgrimage to Mecca.

Islam believes that each person is born pure. The Holy Quran tells us that God has given human beings a choice between good and evil and to seek God’s pleasure through faith, prayer and charity. Islam believes that God created mankind in His image and by imbuing the attributes of God on a human level mankind can attain His nearness. Islam’s main message is to worship God and to treat all God’s creation with kindness and compassion. Rights of parents in old age, orphans and the needy are clearly stated. Women’s rights were safeguarded 1,400 years ago when the rest of the world was in total darkness about emancipation. Islamic teachings encompass every imaginable situation and its rules and principles are truly universal and have stood the test of time.

In Islam virtue does not connote forsaking the bounties of nature that are lawful. On the contrary one is encouraged to lead a healthy, active life with the qualities of kindness, chastity, honesty, mercy, courage patience and politeness. In short, Islam has a perfect and complete code for the guidance of individuals and communities alike. As the entire message of Islam is derived from the Holy Quran and indeed the Sunnah and Hadith (the traditions and practices of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings on him) it is immutable in the face of change in time and place. It may appear rigid to the casual eye, in actual fact it is most certainly an adaptable way of life regardless of human changes.

Islam teaches that the path to spiritual development is open to all. Any individual who searches the One Creator can seek nearness to God through sincere and earnest worship; it is central to establishing a relationship with the Almighty. This positive message for humanity fills hearts with hope and courage.

[selina_786]

true, i know what your saying, but if im saying its not our right to call someone a non-Muslim if they dont follow, but we can call someone a non-Muslim if they dont believe at all. Thats the only difference. otherwise, folowing is believing :)
I agree.

We have no right to judge. Yup yup.

[pathanipakora]

yep u r still a muslim, even though ur action are non muslim. Every muslim knws wht thry are doing is right or not right. its up up to them, when they wake up from it and follow the right path. Islam is the religion of forgiveness, all u gotta do is ask for forgiveness.

[zamhussain]

Muslim expresses his/her faith (Iman) in the following words:
Ash-hadu anla ilaha illal-Lahu Wahdahu la Sharika Lahu wa-ash-hadu anna Muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu

The English translation of the Shahadah is as follows:
I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah, the One, without any partner. And I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and His Messenger.

The declaration of faith consists of two distinct parts, i.e., the absolute belief in the Unity of Allah (God) and the belief in the Holy Prophet Muhammad as a mortal human being and the Messenger of Allah.

Islam's fundamental belief is the Unity of God. All other beliefs hang on this belief. Therefore the acknowledgement and 'bearing witness' of this is the key to the Muslim faith. Unless this is observed one cannot be a Muslim. A Muslim accepts Allah as the only God, and only Master, Lord and Ruler with no partner sharing in any way His Being, Powers and Attributes. He is One; He is Unique; He is not the father of any one, nor He has or had any father. He is Almighty and Self-Sustaining. He is there forever, and will be there forever.

A Muslim believes in Allah as the Ruler and must not disobey Him. In fact everything that exists in the universe obeys Him. He is the Fashioner of all the Universes that may exist.

The belief in the Prophet Muhammad (on whom be peace) as the servant and Messenger of Allah completes one’s faith. The Holy Prophet was the greatest of all the Prophets of Allah, yet he was only a human being with no share in Divinity. This is a very important belief that keeps Muslims from associating partners with Allah. This part of the Declaration of Faith where reinforces the first part of Allah being the only Supreme Being with no partners also establishes the absolute authority of the Holy Prophet as the Messenger of Allah, who must be obeyed as well in all the matters of faith. The Holy Prophet is the last prophet who brought us the last Book (the Holy Quran) to be followed. He lived among his people for a long time and his life is documented in utmost detail. He lead his followers by example. The way he lived his life and admonished his followers to live their lives is called Sunnah of the Holy Prophet. The second part of the Declaration of Faith makes obeying and following the advice of the Prophet Muhammad equally important to the belief in absolute Unity of Allah. This declaration make one to completely submit to the Will of Allah and that is why one who declares this belief is called a Muslim - one who completely submits to the will of Allah.

[vaz8623]

Allah

[pimpkidman828]

zamhussain - wht u copy and paste is cool, but it's too much and 1 outta 100 people will read that, rather us houdl summarize and write in 2-3 sentences.
pathanipokara- U r correct we have no right to judge, and we shouldn't cuz only ALlah can do that, omg that goes with what vaz said lol.

[desailly]

The literal meaning of Islam is peace

Something has gone disastrously wrong then.

[vaz8623]

zamhussain - wht u copy and paste is cool, but it's too much and 1 outta 100 people will read that, rather us houdl summarize and write in 2-3 sentences.
pathanipokara- U r correct we have no right to judge, and we shouldn't cuz only ALlah can do that, omg that goes with what vaz said lol.
The simplest and the most right answer,whats there to discuss
Allah does everything,plain as!

[adren@line]

um.. not really, a muslim is sum 1 who belives in Allah and the prophet as his messenger. kinda like to be a hindu u gotta belive in the trillion god's

actually Hindus dont *have* to do anything.

There are polytheistic Hindus. Monotheistic Hindus. Monistic Hindus, and atheistic Hindus.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Something has gone disastrously wrong then.

:rofl:

[Arshy]

I dont think a certain thing makes a muslim a muslim....

It's alotta things combined...but Faith is the main one i reckon, along with all the other guides that are set out!

[zamhussain]

Something has gone disastrously wrong then.

its jus a senario

well if u were gonna be attacked upon by sum boyz will u jus stand there n say to dem dnt hurt me or will u stand up n fight them

i rekon dnt hurt will suit u :)

[morning_dew]

a lot of people call themselves a 'muslim' simply because they are blessed with a muslim name and are fortunate enough to have been born into a muslim home....but i reckon that it is for this very reason the word is often misused.
i dont think anyone call call them selves a 'perfect' muslim....as being a muslim is a journey of self-improvement.
but the type of people that kinda offend me are those who engage in haraam (aka FORBIDDEN) activities, eg sleeping around, (sex before marriage is haraam), drinking alcohol, girls that feel the need to resort to degrading levels and feel the need to wear revealing clothing (tight, clingy, cleavage/leg showing ) clothing, popularly termed as the latest 'fashion'.
yet they call themselves a muslim? :dunno:
the least that is expected off a muslim is to comply with those (few) rules that state what is halaal and what is haraam, after all it is these which separate a 'muslim' from a 'kaafir'. but besides that Allah is the ultimate judge.

[KurtaPyjama]

a lot of people call themselves a 'muslim' simply because they are blessed with a muslim name and are fortunate enough to have been born into a muslim home....but i reckon that it is for this very reason the word is often misused.
i dont think anyone call call them selves a 'perfect' muslim....as being a muslim is a journey of self-improvement.
but the type of people that kinda offend me are those who engage in haraam (aka FORBIDDEN) activities, eg sleeping around, (sex before marriage is haraam), drinking alcohol, girls that feel the need to resort to degrading levels and feel the need to wear revealing clothing (tight, clingy, cleavage/leg showing ) clothing, popularly termed as the latest 'fashion'.
yet they call themselves a muslim? :dunno:
the least that is expected off a muslim is to comply with those (few) rules that state what is halaal and what is haraam, after all it is these which separate a 'muslim' from a 'kaafir'. but besides that Allah is the ultimate judge.

everyone sins.

[zamhussain]

a lot of people call themselves a 'muslim' simply because they are blessed with a muslim name and are fortunate enough to have been born into a muslim home....but i reckon that it is for this very reason the word is often misused.
i dont think anyone call call them selves a 'perfect' muslim....as being a muslim is a journey of self-improvement.
but the type of people that kinda offend me are those who engage in haraam (aka FORBIDDEN) activities, eg sleeping around, (sex before marriage is haraam), drinking alcohol, girls that feel the need to resort to degrading levels and feel the need to wear revealing clothing (tight, clingy, cleavage/leg showing ) clothing, popularly termed as the latest 'fashion'.
yet they call themselves a muslim? :dunno:
the least that is expected off a muslim is to comply with those (few) rules that state what is halaal and what is haraam, after all it is these which separate a 'muslim' from a 'kaafir'. but besides that Allah is the ultimate judge.


ameen!!!!!!! tru sayin

[(sic)]

a lot of people call themselves a 'muslim' simply because they are blessed with a muslim name and are fortunate enough to have been born into a muslim home....but i reckon that it is for this very reason the word is often misused.
i dont think anyone call call them selves a 'perfect' muslim....as being a muslim is a journey of self-improvement.
but the type of people that kinda offend me are those who engage in haraam (aka FORBIDDEN) activities, eg sleeping around, (sex before marriage is haraam), drinking alcohol, girls that feel the need to resort to degrading levels and feel the need to wear revealing clothing (tight, clingy, cleavage/leg showing ) clothing, popularly termed as the latest 'fashion'.
yet they call themselves a muslim? :dunno:
the least that is expected off a muslim is to comply with those (few) rules that state what is halaal and what is haraam, after all it is these which separate a 'muslim' from a 'kaafir'. but besides that Allah is the ultimate judge.
to be a muslim means to submit to one God i.e. 'mumeen'...how do you know all those you just spoke of wouldnt submit to their God?

[zamhussain]

everyone sins.


you will be dealt wit ur sins justly on da day of judgement (every1)

[KhanNoonienSingh]

to be a muslim means to submit to one God i.e. 'mumeen'...how do you know all those you just spoke of wouldnt submit to their God?

its not really our job to know...if someone says shahadah we trust them on it. even if they commit crimes and must be executed for something under an islamic government, you can't call them a non-muslim.

however, you don't have to trust them personally...and in that case, you can trust your heart and Allah. not to mention its blatantly obvious where someone's heart may lie when Islam clearly orders some things as submission to Allah (prayer and certain behaviour) and when people clearly contradict it, you have every right to wanna stay away. just don't discriminate beyond the personal level.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

that's not even a pillar of islam.


well it actually is , because if you understand the meaning of the word "Ilah" it doesnt merely mean "God" but rather "being to be obeyed and worshipped". So the kalimah already entails the concept within the word.The word Muslim is a past tense verbal noun of Islam which is an action.

In a legal sense of Shari'ah we dont call someone a disbeliever on account of sins alone. However this does not rule out the possibility that they are in reality unbelievers. It is possible a person is not a believer while claiming to be Muslim.

[FTJfag]

Virginity for the women.
Chopped foreskin for the men.

[(sic)]

and crushing on johir like whoa isn't haraam? :sarb:
aaaaaaaahhahaahha

[KurtaPyjama]

you will be dealt wit ur sins justly on da day of judgement (every1)

yes but my point is sins are based on halaal and haraam classifications. so if everyone sins, then what does it really mean for a true muslim to be adhering to, as she puts it "the few" rules that she purports to separate the kaafir from the muslim?

[KhanNoonienSingh]

well it actually is , because if you understand the meaning of the word "Ilah" it doesnt merely mean "God" but rather "being to be obeyed and worshipped". So the kalimah already entails the concept within the word.The word Muslim is a past tense verbal noun of Islam which is an action.

In a legal sense of Shari'ah we dont call someone a disbeliever on account of sins alone. However this does not rule out the possibility that they are in reality unbelievers. It is possible a person is not a believer while claiming to be Muslim.

hey man where you been :wavey:

[morning_dew]

to be a muslim means to submit to one God i.e. 'mumeen'...how do you know all those you just spoke of wouldnt submit to their God?true, true, true! i agree with you totally.
i re-read through that post and it does kinda sound extremish-y, or as though it makes out im some kinda patronising cow. so sorry if i did manage to offend anyone i didnt mean to :). though i stand by what i said, that we should atleast stick to what is haraam and halaal, and no i dont think they're not the most exhaustive set of rules to follow.
my fault for not expressing it in a better way.

[morning_dew]

listen people. i saw the title of the thread, and i gave an honest response. sorry if it wasnt the usual arse kissing crap you most often get in this place.

[PakiPoet]

An interesting question indeed. Two posssibilities:

1) To simply say the first Kalma and believe what you are saying.

2) To not only say the first Kalma but to live up to the requirements of God (who you acknowledged in reciting the Kalma) as presented to his messenger (whom you also acknowledged in reciting the Kalma) in the Quran.

One of my favorite verses from the Quran, related to thos requirements:

It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

listen people. i saw the title of the thread, and i gave an honest response. sorry if it wasnt the usual arse kissing crap you most often get in this place.

:rofl:

[FTJfag]

listen people. i saw the title of the thread, and i gave an honest response. sorry if it wasnt the usual arse kissing crap you most often get in this place.


Your response to the question was disgraceful. You mentioned nothing about circumcised penises. In fact, you didn't even mention a penis, hell, not even a left nutsack.

You know nothing about being a Muslim!

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

One thing we should remember is that there are degrees of sins.
Each degree has different ramification, which to some extent depends on intentions.

So all those people who think having a boyfriend or drinking alcohol with "good intentions", sorry but "Homey dont Play That".Good intentions ONLY count when you do something out of true necessity and that you were sincerely trying to serve Allah(swt) but because of some limitations could not fulfill your duty.

there are saghirah and kabirah and amongst kabirah there are various forums

like fasuq, fasad, faheshat and so on. Things which are Fahishat or Fasuq are considered tantamount to Kufr, although do not bring one to becoming a outright kafir, for example we dont know if these people are possessed by Jinn or under a dark spell. Thats probably a strong degree why we cannot label them kafirs despite the fact their act is kufr.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

hey man where you been :wavey:

School caught up to me :wavey:

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Virginity for the women.
Chopped foreskin for the men.

Wow strange, you get ass hurt when Muslims enter your threads and that religion should stay separate from it, yet you feel obliged to interupt a religious oriented thread.

[morning_dew]

its not really our job to know...if someone says shahadah we trust them on it. even if they commit crimes and must be executed for something under an islamic government, you can't call them a non-muslim.

however, you don't have to trust them personally...and in that case, you can trust your heart and Allah. not to mention its blatantly obvious where someone's heart may lie when Islam clearly orders some things as submission to Allah (prayer and certain behaviour) and when people clearly contradict it, you have every right to wanna stay away. just don't discriminate beyond the personal level.thank you! thats all i meant! of course Allah is the one to judge our conscience, our intentions and how much we submit to Him. but i cant help but feel pity for those (and as a muslim feel offended) when you hear of girls/guys getting drunk, sleeping around, but then every Friday they're at the mosque for Jummuah? yes, i acknowledge the fact that as humans we can very often be hypocrits our contradict ourselves...but actions like that are uncalled for...where was your Islam, your faith, your fear, when you were pissed and 'grinding' a girl/guy. :no:

[zamhussain]

yes but my point is sins are based on halaal and haraam classifications. so if everyone sins, then what does it really mean for a true muslim to be adhering to, as she puts it "the few" rules that she purports to separate the kaafir from the muslim?

The real difference between the two is due to Islam and Kufr. The meaning of Islam is obediences to God while he meaning of Kufr is disobedience to God. Muslim and Kafir are both humun beings; both are slaves of God. But one human being becomes superior for the reason that he recognizes his Master, obeys His orders and fears the consequences of disobeying Him, while the other human being falls from the high rank because he does not recognize his Master and does not carry out His orders. This is why God is pleased with Muslims and displeased with unbelievers. He promises award of Heaven to Muslims and warns unbelievers that they will be consigned to Hell.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

its not really our job to know...if someone says shahadah we trust them on it. even if they commit crimes and must be executed for something under an islamic government, you can't call them a non-muslim.

however, you don't have to trust them personally...and in that case, you can trust your heart and Allah. not to mention its blatantly obvious where someone's heart may lie when Islam clearly orders some things as submission to Allah (prayer and certain behaviour) and when people clearly contradict it, you have every right to wanna stay away. just don't discriminate beyond the personal level.

well said so true, In fact its a Muslims duty to not keep close ties to corrupt Muslims, as it is highly possible they are not believers.

[Sweet Miasma]

thank you! thats all i meant! of course Allah is the one to judge our conscience, our intentions and how much we submit to Him. but i cant help but feel pity for those (and as a muslim feel offended) when you hear of girls/guys getting drunk, sleeping around, but then every Friday they're at the mosque for Jummuah? yes, i acknowledge the fact that as humans we can very often be hypocrits our contradict ourselves...but actions like that are uncalled for...where was your Islam, your faith, your fear, when you were pissed and 'grinding' a girl/guy. :no:
i agree with you....things like that really piss me off...
and then i also see those that do haraam stuff, dont take devote time to Allah and then call themselves muslims at the end of the day just because they think that believing that Allah exists is enough...

[morning_dew]

Your response to the question was disgraceful. You mentioned nothing about circumcised penises. In fact, you didn't even mention a penis, hell, not even a left nutsack.

You know nothing about being a Muslim!ssssh! not in this thread! :neutral:

[morning_dew]

at the same time i know i've got a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooong way to go to call myself the muslim i want/should be.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

yep u r still a muslim, even though ur action are non muslim. Every muslim knws wht thry are doing is right or not right. its up up to them, when they wake up from it and follow the right path. Islam is the religion of forgiveness, all u gotta do is ask for forgiveness.


not exactly, Islam offers oppurtunities for forgiveness, but you dont truly have any guarantees of forgiveness, how does one know for sure our tawbah is maqbul? thats why people should think twice before acting.

[FTJfag]

Wow strange, you get ass hurt when Muslims enter your threads and that religion should stay separate from it, yet you feel obliged to interupt a religious oriented thread.

Dawg, quit talking shit.

Any individual is welcome in my threads, regardless of their religious beliefs. However, narrow-minded idiots such as you are frowned upon. I have no problem with "Muslims" per'se.

Moreover, you're the one that gets butt hurt over religion. You're a fanatic, a psycho, a bottom of the barrel follower. You're the least respected, even by your own kind.

I personally don't give a shit about religion, so I really don't get butt hurt over the issue.

[morning_dew]

:roflbow:thank you! its nice to see there are some people who aren't taking my posts to the extreme, or taking them to heart! i didn't intend for people to take them like that :neutral: (this is a mere web forum afterall!)

[morning_dew]

Lets all try and convert ftj to Islam!!! :roflbow: hahahaaaaaaaa!

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

i think it's, if u believe in the first kalma, u are muslim. discuss..


Saying Kalimah means you ENTER into Islam , what you think, say, do and act keeps you a Muslim. Reciting something alone does not make someone a believer. If that was the case then anyone who merely reads something becomes a believer in it. Islam requires logic too not just arbitrary remarks

[selina_786]

Lets all try and convert ftj to Islam!!! :roflbow: hahahaaaaaaaa!
He was actually born as a Muslim. :neutral:

[FTJfag]

Well, AFGHAN_ZMARAI certainly wins the most boring and most repetitive poster awards.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Dawg, quit talking shit.

Any individual is welcome in my threads, regardless of their religious beliefs. However, narrow-minded idiots such as you are frowned upon. I have no problem with "Muslims" per'se.

Moreover, you're the one that gets butt hurt over religion. You're a fanatic, a psycho, a bottom of the barrel follower. You're the least respected, even by your own kind.

I personally don't give a shit about religion, so I really don't get butt hurt over the issue.


No you have a problem with us bringing up religion into your topics , yet you feel its ok to be invasive on religious topics. There you go with your nerdy defense mechanism motivated labeling "narrow minded". A Truly open minded person doesnt put definitions on whats narrow and whats open.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Moreover, you're the one that gets butt hurt over religion. You're a fanatic, a psycho, a bottom of the barrel follower. You're the least respected, even by your own kind.

not really...there's been threads about him before. most of the muslims here appreciate him. respect certainly isn't an issue.

[KurtaPyjama]

The real difference between the two is due to Islam and Kufr. The meaning of Islam is obediences to God while he meaning of Kufr is disobedience to God. Muslim and Kafir are both humun beings; both are slaves of God. But one human being becomes superior for the reason that he recognizes his Master, obeys His orders and fears the consequences of disobeying Him, while the other human being falls from the high rank because he does not recognize his Master and does not carry out His orders. This is why God is pleased with Muslims and displeased with unbelievers. He promises award of Heaven to Muslims and warns unbelievers that they will be consigned to Hell.

yes that is my point. that her classification is not a TRULY valid determinant of who is a muslim or not.

[FTJfag]

I don't think you can be born into a religion- it's not a biological gene. No one can determine your religious beliefs for you. You either embrace the religion that is preached around you, or you don't...

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

I don't think you can be born into a religion- it's not a biological gene. No one can determine your religious beliefs for you. You either embrace the religion that is preached around you, or you don't...


You obviously have issues with religion , what happened the Qari touched your no no spot when you were little?

[FTJfag]

not really...there's been threads about him before. most of the muslims here appreciate him. respect certainly isn't an issue.

Oh. I stand corrected.

I didn't realise a handful of Muslims on this forum thought he was the shit. That changes everything!!

[morning_dew]

He was actually born as a Muslim. :neutral::shock: daaaaamn! what happened!
:neutral: if he was still a muslim, i sooooooooooooooooooooo would've married him and um :rolleyes: ....y'know.....:Oops: done those things husband and wife do, after marriage....kinda things. :anxious:

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Oh. I stand corrected.

I didn't realise a handful of Muslims on this forum thought he was the shit. That changes everything!!

not a handful. most.

[morning_dew]

I don't think you can be born into a religion- it's not a biological gene. No one can determine your religious beliefs for you. You either embrace the religion that is preached around you, or you don't...agreed!

[morning_dew]

The real difference between the two is due to Islam and Kufr. The meaning of Islam is obediences to God while he meaning of Kufr is disobedience to God. Muslim and Kafir are both humun beings; both are slaves of God. But one human being becomes superior for the reason that he recognizes his Master, obeys His orders and fears the consequences of disobeying Him, while the other human being falls from the high rank because he does not recognize his Master and does not carry out His orders. This is why God is pleased with Muslims and displeased with unbelievers. He promises award of Heaven to Muslims and warns unbelievers that they will be consigned to Hell.exactly! which is reflected by obeying what is halaal and haraam.

[misspathani.]

Believing in Allah and worshiping Allah only
Not associating him with anyone/anything else
Believing that there is no other God but him

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Oh. I stand corrected.

I didn't realise a handful of Muslims on this forum thought he was the shit. That changes everything!!


Well Muslims who actually reflect belief in their religion have high regards for me on account that my statements are cogent and I can back up whatever I say both textually and logically. I can bridge the sacred and the secular.

if you really had any feasible rebuttle against me then the majority of your writings wouldnt consist of neo-liberal whining with generic phrases like "narrow minded" and goofy abstract comments like that.

[selina_786]

:shock: daaaaamn! what happened!
:neutral: if he was still a muslim, i sooooooooooooooooooooo would've married him and um :rolleyes: ....y'know.....:Oops: done those things husband and wife do, after marriage....kinda things. :anxious:
I worded it incorrect, I realised.

LOL........ I think he finds marriages gay :scratch:

[selina_786]

not a handful. most.Yup.

[FiStiK]

not a handful. most.
I have to second this.

[FTJfag]

You obviously have issues with religion , what happened the Qari touched your no no spot when you were little?

Stop assuming, you dumb piece of shit!

I have no quarrel with religion. I like religion. I think religion is a beautiful thing. Religion carries a lot of positive attributes. However, religion is only beautiful if you treat it (all of it) with respect- which is where you fail...miserably.

I don't believe there is ONE right religion. Most importantly, I believe we should be able to believe in a different religion from YOU without you having a mental break down. I believe we shouldn’t have to hear you cry about how your religion is the best, and why all other religions are oh-so wrong.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Stop assuming, you dumb piece of shit!

I have no quarrel with religion. I like religion. I think religion is a beautiful thing. Religion carries a lot of positive attributes. However, religion is only beautiful if you treat it (all of it) with respect- which is where you fail...miserably.

I don't believe there is ONE right religion. Most importantly, I believe we should be able to believe in a different religion from YOU without you having a mental break down. I believe we shouldn’t have to hear you cry about how your religion is the best, and why all other religions are oh-so wrong.


oooh I've struck a nerve , something I said must be the truth then. you're a typical generic murtadd who's mad because some Third Rate village Molwi played hide the salami with you, just what I suspected.

[morning_dew]

Stop assuming, you dumb piece of shit!

I have no quarrel with religion. I like religion. I think religion is a beautiful thing. Religion carries a lot of positive attributes. However, religion is only beautiful if you treat it (all of it) with respect- which is where you fail...miserably.

I don't believe there is ONE right religion. Most importantly, I believe we should be able to believe in a different religion from YOU without you having a mental break down. I believe we shouldn’t have to hear you cry about how your religion is the best, and why all other religions are oh-so wrong.:applause:

[morning_dew]

ftj, afgan...c'mon boys. :no: lets pack it in and call it a day. eh?

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

ftj, afgan...c'mon boys. :no: lets pack it in and call it a day. eh?


awww but I'm having fun exposing the origins of FTJ's neurotic anxieties.

[morning_dew]

hmmmm :think: i still think we should try and convert the ftj into islam.

[Sweet Miasma]

Believing in Allah and worshiping Allah only
Not associating him with anyone/anything else
Believing that there is no other God but him
u must also believe in the Prophet....and follow his sunnah

[selina_786]

ftj, afgan...c'mon boys. :no: lets pack it in and call it a day. eh?
Watching 'tamasha' is also very unislamic , especially stirring yo...


:p

[zamhussain]

Stop assuming, you dumb piece of shit!

I have no quarrel with religion. I like religion. I think religion is a beautiful thing. Religion carries a lot of positive attributes. However, religion is only beautiful if you treat it (all of it) with respect- which is where you fail...miserably.

I don't believe there is ONE right religion. Most importantly, I believe we should be able to believe in a different religion from YOU without you having a mental break down. I believe we shouldn’t have to hear you cry about how your religion is the best, and why all other religions are oh-so wrong.


whats ur religion?

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Stop assuming, you dumb piece of shit!

I have no quarrel with religion. I like religion. I think religion is a beautiful thing. Religion carries a lot of positive attributes. However, religion is only beautiful if you treat it (all of it) with respect- which is where you fail...miserably.

I don't believe there is ONE right religion. Most importantly, I believe we should be able to believe in a different religion from YOU without you having a mental break down. I believe we shouldn’t have to hear you cry about how your religion is the best, and why all other religions are oh-so wrong.

i honestly can't recall the last time zmarai got into a posting contest over islam vs. any other religion...he's usually just been talking to other muslims about their own religion.

:sarb:

[FTJfag]

oooh I've struck a nerve , something I said must be the truth then. you're a typical generic murtadd who's mad because some Third Rate village Molw played hide the salami with you, just what I suspected.

You _honestly_ haven't hit a nerve. In fact, I can swear to your precious Allah that I'm laughing at you right now.

Don't be fooled by my cursing, I swear ALL the fucking time, regardless of my mood.

Your ignorance is transparent throughout your personality, not only when it concerns religion.

[morning_dew]

Watching 'tamasha' is also very unislamic , especially stirring yo...


:p:ashamed:

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

hmmmm :think: i still think we should try and convert the ftj into islam.

Well I think WE should convert to Islam first in the TRUE sense. I hate when Muslims prozyletize but ignore the fact that Muslims themselves are so deviantly immoral and satanic. What use is merely "reciting" a statement with nothing else to back it up?

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

You _honestly_ haven't hit a nerve. In fact, I can swear to your precious Allah that I'm laughing at you right now.

Don't be fooled by my cursing, I swear ALL the fucking time, regardless of my mood.

Your ignorance is transparent throughout your personality, not only when it concerns religion.


Thats just defense mechanism laughter, it's what people do to feel reassured when mentally they're getting tense and agitated.

[FTJfag]

i honestly can't recall the last time zmarai got into a posting contest over islam vs. any other religion...he's usually just been talking to other muslims about their own religion.

:sarb:

Why the fuck do you keep commenting on everything I say?

Shiiit.

[misspathani.]

u must also believe in the Prophet....and follow his sunnah
Of course I believe in prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him)

..but believing in Allah and putting him first before anything else is the most important.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

i honestly can't recall the last time zmarai got into a posting contest over islam vs. any other religion...he's usually just been talking to other muslims about their own religion.

:sarb:


Exactly, In fact I HATE HATE HATE when Muslims try and prosyletize non Muslims while they do absolutely NOTHINg to rectify the already existing Muslim population.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Why the fuck do you keep commenting on everything I say?

Shiiit.


LOL FTJ is getting emotional :D

[FTJfag]

hmmmm :think: i still think we should try and convert the ftj into islam.
Try it, and I'll drown your leader's (AFGHAN_ZMARAI) face in pig fat.

[misspathani.]

You _honestly_ haven't hit a nerve. In fact, I can swear to your precious Allah that I'm laughing at you right now.

Don't be fooled by my cursing, I swear ALL the fucking time, regardless of my mood.

Your ignorance is transparent throughout your personality, not only when it concerns religion.

U is gonna burn in hell if u don't revert :D

[FTJfag]

LOL FTJ is getting emotional :D
Stop laughing. Laughter is a defence mechanism!

[PakiPoet]

not a handful. most.


:yes:

[FTJfag]

U is gonna burn in hell if u don't revert :D

Amen, sister.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Islam doesnt mean peace, actually Islam means Salamah actually means "to set things arright". To say peace literally is Sakanah which means tranquility. Islam leads to peace, but sometimes aggression and force are used to attain them. Just wanted to make that clarification to Zamhussain.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Stop laughing. Laughter is a defence mechanism!

no your laughter is a defense mechanism. My laughter is joyful :D

[zamhussain]

Stop laughing. Laughter is a defence mechanism!


:)
its also wen ones feelin down knwin inside dat dey r wrng n wanna cheer demselves up pretendin dat dey r rite

[morning_dew]

Well I think WE should convert to Islam first in the TRUE sense. I hate when Muslims prozyletize but ignore the fact that Muslims themselves are so deviantly immoral and satanic. What use is merely "reciting" a statement with nothing else to back it up?amen brother!
another point.... i reckon we should 'covert'* those who want to convert to islam.
*and when i say the word convert here i mean to provide them with guidance and information, not brainwashing them (! lol)
i had to put that in a disclaimer, too often the media takes things waaaaay outta context :no:

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

I dont care what FTJ does I dont even try and determine whether he will stay in hell , just as long as He and those like him keep their ideologies amongst themselves, sort of like a leper colony, and not try and propogate them. Then leave him be.

[FTJfag]

:)
its also wen ones feelin down knwin inside dat dey r wrng n wanna cheer demselves up pretendin dat dey r rite


Sorry, I'm not familiar with your dialect...

If you ask Islam's greatest follower (AFGHAN_ZMARAI) to pray to Allah for you tonight, maybe you'll wake up with the ability to converse coherently.

[zamhussain]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with your dialect...

If you ask Islam's greatest follower (AFGHAN_ZMARAI) to pray to Allah for you tonight, maybe you'll wake up with the ability to converse coherently.


well let me clarify it to u its wen you knowing inside urself dat wat u sayin is wrng about islam, dat dnt make sense you jus laff on da outside to make ur self happy n to boost ur confidence

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with your dialect...

If you ask Islam's greatest follower (AFGHAN_ZMARAI) to pray to Allah for you tonight, maybe you'll wake up with the ability to converse coherently.


you know the only reason I commented was because you seem to have some issue with Muslims making religious comments in your threads. Yet you try and promote your ideology in Islamic oriented threads. If Islam doesnt bother you, then you wouldnt be here to promote your ideals. As for the content, no one cares for the content of what you say, your actual message falls on deaf ears.

[zamhussain]

ftjfag wat religion do you follow does this make sense to u

[zamhussain]

ftjfag wat religion do you follow does this make sense to u

[FTJfag]

well let me clarify it to u its wen you knowing inside urself dat wat u sayin is wrng about islam, dat dnt make sense you jus laff on da outside to make ur self happy n to boost ur confidence

Sorry, that _really_ wasn't any better.

I didn't ask for you to elaborate your point, since I can't even understand the language you're typing in.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Ok people I said what I needed to say and I made FTJ sore as usual , So I'm out, enjoy your evening. :wavey:

[FTJfag]

you seem to have some issue with Muslims making religious comments in your threads.

No, I don't.

I have a problem with ANYONE who drags religion (any religion) into an issue where it isn't required. You see, someone like you would raise a religious issue in a thread related to the bacteria festering on my toilet seat. That's just the kind of chump you are.

[zamhussain]

FTJfag what religion do you follow. Could you let me know.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

No, I don't.

I have a problem with ANYONE who drags religion (any religion) into an issue where it isn't required. You see, someone like you would raise a religious issue in a thread related to the bacteria festering on my toilet seat. That's just the kind of chump you are.


So then you should have an equal amount of problem when people drag irreligion into threads oriented towards religion. Yet you dont. Therefore you're just trying to cover your own tail, nothing more. All this liberalism, humanism rubbish is just a facade. I've debated induviduals like you all my life, they always lose. In reality what motivates them isnt some quest for enlightenment , tolerance or open mindedness, no rather it's just some need to cope with their degeneracy. They dont disregard morality because morality is untrue, they do so to console their failures.

[FTJfag]

Ok people I said what I needed to say and I made FTJ sore as usual , So I'm out, enjoy your evening. :wavey:

Right.

You seem to think that just because you repetitively type, "I made you angry" it becomes gospel.

People who don't give a shit about religion don't get angered over religious issues; hence "we don't give a shit about religion"

It's the believers that will bleed willingly.

Logicistics, it's so...I'd like to "easy", but it's clearly not. It’s so beautiful!

[zamhussain]

No, I don't.

I have a problem with ANYONE who drags religion (any religion) into an issue where it isn't required. You see, someone like you would raise a religious issue in a thread related to the bacteria festering on my toilet seat. That's just the kind of chump you are.

This thread is on islam and i dont see the problem here of anyone making comments of islam. And if you dont like it you shouldnt be replying in this thread.

[FTJfag]

So then you should have an equal amount of problem when people drag irreligion into threads oriented towards religion. Yet you dont. Therefore you're just trying to cover your own tail, nothing more. All this liberalism, humanism rubbish is just a facade. I've debated induviduals like you all my life, they always lose. In reality what motivates them isnt some quest for enlightenment , tolerance or open mindedness, no rather it's just some need to cope with their degeneracy. They dont disregard morality because morality is untrue, they do so to console their failures.

"Ok people I said what I needed to say and I made FTJ sore as usual , So I'm out, enjoy your evening."

You've already said you're leaving...

You just can't walk away, can you?

Shit, I really did anger a zit, didn't I, hun?

[FTJfag]

This thread is on islam and i dont see the problem here of anyone making comments of islam. And if you dont like it you shouldnt be replying in this thread.

Every thread is open for discussion, kid. Now get the fuck off me.

[FTJfag]

Ok, so this is another religious thread down the shitter. Lovely!

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Right.

You seem to think that just because you repetitively type, "I made you angry" it becomes gospel.

People who don't give a shit about religion don't get angered over religious issues; hence "we don't give a shit about religion"

It's the believers that will bleed willingly.

Logicistics, it's so...I'd like to "easy", but it's clearly not. It’s so beautiful!


Well you think when you type "narrow minded" , and other liberal horse manure that you're some sort of free thinker. So why would it be invalid to do something comparable? If you were trully indifferent , you wouldnt have to respond to me. you could just ignore me. You dont because it strikes a nerve naturally.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

"Ok people I said what I needed to say and I made FTJ sore as usual , So I'm out, enjoy your evening."

You've already said you're leaving...

You just can't walk away, can you?

Shit, I really did anger a zit, didn't I, hun?


Lame now you're just copying me, so much for being a free thinker.

[FTJfag]

Well you think when you type "narrow minded" , and other liberal horse manure that you're some sort of free thinker. So why would it be invalid to do something comparable? If you were trully indifferent , you wouldnt have to respond to me. you could just ignore me. You dont because it strikes a nerve naturally.

Still here? It's not like you're making your responses snappy either.

Dayam! You must be PISSED!

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Still here? It's not like you're making your responses snappy either.

Dayam! You must be PISSED!


Again copying me, the fact you highlight my assertions shows its burning you inside and now you're over compensating. :D

[FTJfag]

Lame now you're just copying me, so much for being a free thinker.

So, let me get this right, hun. Your arguments can only work one way? If your own point is used against you, by default it becomes "lame"?

Shit, you're not putting up a good show today, are you, hun?

[pimpkidman828]

Islam doesnt mean peace, actually Islam means Salamah actually means "to set things arright". To say peace literally is Sakanah which means tranquility. Islam leads to peace, but sometimes aggression and force are used to attain them. Just wanted to make that clarification to Zamhussain.
yah, i was gonan say that right now, good job :Pelvic2:

[zamhussain]

Every thread is open for discussion, kid. Now get the fuck off me.


LOL, :p your right every thread is open for discussion as you side know what is your problem if anyone brings religion into it.

[misspathani.]

Again copying me, the fact you highlight my assertions shows its burning you inside and now you're over compensating. :Dlol

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

So, let me get this right, hun. Your arguments can only work one way? If your own point is used against you, by default it becomes "lame"?

Shit, you're not putting up a good show today, are you, hun?


Well since I'm the aggressor in this campaign, your response is naturally defensive. Just how it works. :D

[FTJfag]

Again copying me, the fact you highlight my assertions shows its burning you inside and now you're over compensating. :D

Unfortunately the :D icon doesn't mask your anger, babe. It just makes it more transparent that you're trying to cover up your anger with happy icons.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

yah, i was gonan say that right now, good job :Pelvic2:


tankoo :dance3:

[pimpkidman828]

Unfortunately the :D icon doesn't mask your anger, babe. It just makes it more transparent that you're trying to cover up your anger with happy icons.
dawg, she is not gonan get angry with a degenerate, just let her be.

[pimpkidman828]

tankoo :dance3:
hahaha, i like sum of ur posts tho. I read alot of em, just don't answer them, cuz they say exactly what i wanan say hehe.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Unfortunately the :D icon doesn't mask your anger, babe. It just makes it more transparent that you're trying to cover up your anger with happy icons.


LOL all you're doing is saying what I said, did my remark sear into you so badly that it's whats on your mind now?

[pathanipakora]

it seems like afghan zamari u know alot abt islam but the way u reply to ppl is totally wrong. now wonder no 1 pays attention to u. ppl just have opinions if u wanna correct them say it in a nice way tht they will actually pay attention. it seems to me u like to show off????? abt my comment u r right it not guranteed tht u will be forgiven but u still pray and ask for fogiveness.

[zamhussain]

FTJfag whats your religion if you follow one, it shouldnt take you years to figure that one out. this does make sense hopefully you should have a answer to this. :D

[FTJfag]

You're still here...

It's a psychological Internet fact that when someone says they're logging off, but actually hangs around to respond to every damn post 15mins later....it's just another way of saying, "I can't leave, because i'm angry and I give a shit!"

Save yourself from further embarrassment and log off. I’m cringing from just sitting here, watching you struggle to get the fuck off your computer.

[pimpkidman828]

it seems like afghan zamari u know alot abt islam but the way u reply to ppl is totally wrong. now wonder no 1 pays attention to u. ppl just have opinions if u wanna correct them say it in a nice way tht they will actually pay attention. it seems to me u like to show off????? abt my comment u r right it not guranteed tht u will be forgiven but u still pray and ask for fogiveness.
nice nice, real nice. I used to be like afgan zamaira, and then i learned what u said and it works. :dance3: :dance3:

[Geezer]

FTJfag whats your religion if you follow one, it shouldnt take you years to figure that one out. this does make sense hopefully you should have a answer to this. :D

I think he's ignoring you, just a friendly hint :p

[selina_786]

FTJfag whats your religion if you follow one, it shouldnt take you years to figure that one out. this does make sense hopefully you should have a answer to this. :DDude, shut up... you keep going on about the same thing..

He doesnt have a religion.. dammit.

[FTJfag]

hahaha, i like sum of ur posts tho. I read alot of em, just don't answer them, cuz they say exactly what i wanan say hehe.

Plus, I don't think you'd be able to type it even if you tried to...

[Geezer]

Dude, shut up... you keep going on about the same thing..

He doesnt have a religion.. dammit.

:rofl: I didnt have the heart to say that

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

it seems like afghan zamari u know alot abt islam but the way u reply to ppl is totally wrong. now wonder no 1 pays attention to u. ppl just have opinions if u wanna correct them say it in a nice way tht they will actually pay attention. it seems to me u like to show off????? abt my comment u r right it not guranteed tht u will be forgiven but u still pray and ask for fogiveness.


You have to separate what I say to FTJ's utter contradiction of separating religion from secularity yet jumping in to try and promote his secularism. With my remarks on Islam. Thats the thing , people arent ignoring me. In fact the way I write is so psychologically potent they cant ignore me. I'm very adept at it alhamdulilah.

Well it seems to you that I like to show off? Well arent you of the school of thought, that believes a person's "intentions" can only be known by God?So how can that "seem" to you. I am obviously not of the same school of thought. Whatever I have said so far in this thread, has no explicit restriction, so cannot be said to be "wrong way of saying things".In fact I dare you to even find one shred of evidence that it is. I just said what needed to be said.

[FTJfag]

Thanks Geezer & Selina.

Shit, I was starting to doubt the power of my hints.

[selina_786]

:rofl: I didnt have the heart to say that
:kekeke: It had to be done...

the discussion here is heated, and he keeps poking his nose in like 'morning dew' :p :p

[morning_dew]

I think he's ignoring you, just a friendly hint :pya think? :razz:

[morning_dew]

:kekeke: It had to be done...

the discussion here is heated, and he keeps poking his nose in like 'morning dew' :p :plike everyone else whose viewing/posting in this thread! :razz:

[FTJfag]

You have to separate what I say to FTJ's utter contradiction of separating religion from secularity yet jumping in to try and promote his secularism. With my remarks on Islam.

Well it seems to you that I like to show off? Well arent you of the school of thought, that believes a person's "intentions" can only be known by God?So how can that "seem" to you. I am obviously not of the same school of thought. Whatever I have said so far in this thread, has no explicit restriction, so cannot be said to be "wrong". I just said what needed to be said.
Fuck, you're still going on...

Are you going to be ok after you actually manage to get off the computer? Actually, we should tackle issue A first- will you be able to get off?

I'm sorry, but this seems to have affected you WAY more than me. Religion is both your candy and your kryptonite, huh? You love that shit, but it kills you at the same time.

[selina_786]

like everyone else whose viewing/posting in this thread! :razz:
Including moi :yes:

Hehehe...

[Sweet Miasma]

Of course I believe in prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him)

..but believing in Allah and putting him first before anything else is the most important.
oh i know you do...
theres just some ppl that dont lay importance on sunnah...and think that following the Quran is enough...

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Fuck, you're still going on...

Are you going to be ok after you actually manage to get off the computer? Actually, we should tackle issue A first- will you be able to get off?

I'm sorry, but this seems to have affected you WAY more than me. Religion is both your candy and your kryptonite, huh? You love that shit, but it kills you at the same time.


FTJ is what I said still ringing inside you? Gosh I'd figure the 10 minutes rest would have let all the seething simmer down. Are you still trying to compensate for things by reflecting my comments back at me? Be creative Mister Free Thinker.

[selina_786]

OK now this is some sort of personal battle.... everything is offtopic..


You are butthurt... no no but you are butthurt.. no but you keep repeating what I said.. bla bla....

Need some spice?

:p

[morning_dew]

Including moi :yes:

Hehehe...now i really am off to bed :wavey: toodles sel and errbody else!
and ftj and afghan zmarai leave it and just agree to disagree, eh? :dunno:

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

OK now this is some sort of personal battle.... everything is offtopic..


You are butthurt... no no but you are butthurt.. no but you keep repeating what I said.. bla bla....

Need some spice?

:p


True I just decided to stay on to see FTJ feel the need to reassure Himself

He's all like "HAA HAAA EUREKA!, Informing him that I dont care will make me feel redeemed!".

[selina_786]

now i really am off to bed :wavey: toodles sel and errbody else!
and ftj and afghan zmarai leave it and just agree to disagree, eh? :dunno:
Sweet dreams... :wave:

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

now i really am off to bed :wavey: toodles sel and errbody else!
and ftj and afghan zmarai leave it and just agree to disagree, eh? :dunno:


Morning Dew but we're not "disagreeing" or "agreeing" on anything right now I'm just psychologically instigating FTJ just for kicks.

[FTJfag]

Fuck, I don't even care, I know i'm hotter and smarter than this guy. That's all that really matters to me.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Fuck, I don't even care, I know i'm hotter and smarter than this guy. That's all that really matters to me.


awwww, thats right FTJ self affirmation , last stand of the defeated ;)

[FTJfag]

Morning Dew but we're not "disagreeing" or "agreeing" on anything right now I'm just psychologically instigating FTJ just for kicks.

Nah, you're still here because you can't leave- you care too much. You probably have a angry vein pulsating on your penis.

You said you were leaving 30mins ago. You even used this icon :wavey: to highlight your departure. But your dumb ass is still here.

Get the fuck off.

[FTJfag]

awwww, thats right FTJ self affirmation , last stand of the defeated ;)
Dawg, you're STILL here. You lost fucking ages ago =]

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Nah, you're still here because you can't leave- you care too much. You probably have a angry vein pulsating on your penis.

You said you were leaving 30mins ago. You even used this icon :wavey: to highlight your departure. But your dumb ass is still here.

Get the fuck off.


Sure I care I didnt say I'm indifferent, I care because I'm enjoying seeing you writhe and saying whatever you can to make yourself feel reconciled. It's really amusing it's almost like playing Duck Hunt. I feel like whatever I say will get you going. :D

[zamhussain]

OK now this is some sort of personal battle.... everything is offtopic..


You are butthurt... no no but you are butthurt.. no but you keep repeating what I said.. bla bla....

Need some spice?

:p


well i spouse your only her to heat things up :p
well you need to say sumthin dat will flame up da heat keep the arugment goin so far you aint said anythin major apart from buttin your nose in

[FTJfag]

Right, i'm bored of this thread. It's just accumulated into mindless dribble.

I'm going to show you how to leave a thread.

Give Allah my regards.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Right, i'm bored of this thread. It's just accumulated into mindless dribble.

I'm going to show you how to leave a thread.

Give Allah my regards.


Yes FTJ leave with your last shred of dignity

haa haa I have the last word , LOL :D that must tear at you.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Salaam 'Alaikum Selina , Morning Dew and whoever else. Sorry for deteriorating the thread. :p

[misspathani.]

Right, i'm bored of this thread. It's just accumulated into mindless dribble.

I'm going to show you how to leave a thread.

Give Allah my regards.

About flippin time.

[pathanipakora]

You have to separate what I say to FTJ's utter contradiction of separating religion from secularity yet jumping in to try and promote his secularism. With my remarks on Islam. Thats the thing , people arent ignoring me. In fact the way I write is so psychologically potent they cant ignore me. I'm very adept at it alhamdulilah.

Well it seems to you that I like to show off? Well arent you of the school of thought, that believes a person's "intentions" can only be known by God?So how can that "seem" to you. I am obviously not of the same school of thought. Whatever I have said so far in this thread, has no explicit restriction, so cannot be said to be "wrong way of saying things".In fact I dare you to even find one shred of evidence that it is. I just said what needed to be said.

y do u knw wht my intentions are??? only allah knws wht iam thinking. i have never said u r wrong abt anything so iam not gonna argue abt anything with u cuz its a waste of time. its not lik it will get through to u. u seem lik a person who thinks he is the only 1 right and thts it. BTW wht r u pusto speaking afghan or farsi speaking afghan

[misspathani.]

Salaam 'Alaikum Selina , Morning Dew and whoever else. Sorry for deteriorating the thread. :p

:no:

[selina_786]

Salaam 'Alaikum Selina , Morning Dew and whoever else. Sorry for deteriorating the thread. :p
Walaikum Aslaam.

It's kewl :lol:

[misspathani.]

y do u knw wht my intentions are??? only allah knws wht iam thinking. i have never said u r wrong abt anything so iam not gonna argue abt anything with u cuz its a waste of time. its not lik it will get through to u. u seem lik a person who thinks he is the only 1 right and thts it. BTW wht r u pusto speaking afghan or farsi speaking afghan

That's the problem...people can't take it when he posts...because when he is giving da'wa..he says it how it is, simple. What he says is right.. take it in and learn. May Allah forgive us if we have not pleased him..and reward us for our good deeds if he wills.

[misspathani.]

oh i know you do...
theres just some ppl that dont lay importance on sunnah...and think that following the Quran is enough...
I agree

[pathanipakora]

That's the problem...people can't take it when he posts...because when he is giving da'wa..he says it how it is, simple. What he says is right.. take it in and learn. May Allah forgive us if we have not pleased him..and reward us for our good deeds if he wills.


i knw he is right, actually iam sure we all know tht... but if u wanna pass a point to some1 u gotta act listen to thm too. these days u gotta compramise, every 1 has there own ideas, u gotta actually listen to thm too. anyway i gotta gove to him 4 doing da'was here eventhough this is not a right place to do it :D

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

y do u knw wht my intentions are??? only allah knws wht iam thinking. i have never said u r wrong abt anything so iam not gonna argue abt anything with u cuz its a waste of time. its not lik it will get through to u. u seem lik a person who thinks he is the only 1 right and thts it. BTW wht r u pusto speaking afghan or farsi speaking afghan


Pushto speaking Afghan, but I can speak Farsi very minutely. And I dont recall ever talking about your intentions can you fill me in?

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

anyway i gotta gove to him 4 doing da'was here eventhough this is not a right place to do it :D

LOL ok then educate me what is the right place for daw'ah bhai jaan? :D

[misspathani.]

i knw he is right, actually iam sure we all know tht... but if u wanna pass a point to some1 u gotta act listen to thm too. these days u gotta compramise, every 1 has there own ideas, u gotta actually listen to thm too. anyway i gotta gove to him 4 doing da'was here eventhough this is not a right place to do it :D

We should give da'wa everywhere. Talk about Islam to the non believers.. it can make a difference. Speaking from experience.

lol I like ur username

[pathanipakora]

go figure it out urself u seem lik a smart guy, iam not gonna go on with u 4 hourz. y dont u strt somewhere small first maybe the area u live in. i dont knw y u r wasting so much time online replying to ppl, who r trying to piss u off haha on a site iam sure its prolly 60 percent non muslim who doesnt give a crap wht u say. so if u r really intrested in dawah thn put it 4 good use rather here. anyway iam done with this topic, i gotta work have fun

[pathanipakora]

We should give da'wa everywhere. Talk about Islam to the non believers.. it can make a difference. Speaking from experience.

lol I like ur username


thanks i got tht from bunch a doctors in PESH who coudnt find a job so they open a shop calling it "Dr Pakora" yea we should... some place where some 1 can actually c u and take u is an example tht yea u r great muslim and whtever u say there must be truth to it. most of the non beleivers who become muslims, thy have some muslim friends by whom thy r impress and thy wanna learn more abt islam. no 1 is gonna pay attention whn u r arguing with other muslims abt some ideas they have.....

[misspathani.]

go figure it out urself u seem lik a smart guy, iam not gonna go on with u 4 hourz. y dont u strt somewhere small first maybe the area u live in. i dont knw y u r wasting so much time online replying to ppl, who r trying to piss u off haha on a site iam sure its prolly 60 percent non muslim who doesnt give a crap wht u say. so if u r really intrested in dawah thn put it 4 good use rather here. anyway iam done with this topic, i gotta work have fun

come on man. He's a muslim brother..why beef.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

go figure it out urself u seem lik a smart guy, iam not gonna go on with u 4 hourz. y dont u strt somewhere small first maybe the area u live in. i dont knw y u r wasting so much time online replying to ppl, who r trying to piss u off haha on a site iam sure its prolly 60 percent non muslim who doesnt give a crap wht u say. so if u r really intrested in dawah thn put it 4 good use rather here. anyway iam done with this topic, i gotta work have fun


I see LOL so you're mad because I corrected you on something? All this time I thought it was about what I was saying to FTJ. Well I havent said anything to any Muslim on this thread at least in the "wrong way". If you can show us the right way than please do.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

come on man. He's a muslim brother..why beef.


I'm honestly not sure what he's upset about anymore. I originally thought it was because I was skinning FTJ alive. Now it seems like something else?

[pathanipakora]

neh i got no beef, haha and no u corrected me right, its just defference of opinion and i agree with u so notin 4 me to be mad. all i said if u r so into this, u can put it for a good use somewhere else and act help ALOT more ppl

[misspathani.]

I'm honestly not sure what he's upset about anymore. I originally thought it was because I was skinning FTJ alive. Now it seems like something else?

bro.. at first I thought pathanipak was a girl.. :neutral: I think hes mad cos he thinks u r 'showing off' instead he shud be happy, or wanting to learn from wat u say about Islam. Thats the problem nowadays..they dont wanna listen.

[adren@line]

We should give da'wa everywhere. Talk about Islam to the non believers.. it can make a difference. Speaking from experience.

lol I like ur username

A Muslim has still yet to try to convert me yet.

Im looking forward to that day.

Arguing with them, eventually embarrassing them, and giving them hell will be fun.

:D

[FiStiK]

A Muslim has still yet to try to convert me yet.

Im looking forward to that day.

Arguing with them, eventually embarrassing them, and giving them hell will be fun.

:D
1. You embarrass no one but yourself.
2. No one tries to convert you, they merely try to correct the flawed and ridiculous information you try to pass as truth.
3. Don't flatter yourself. You have nothing on Hell.

:idea:

[adren@line]

i honestly can't recall the last time zmarai got into a posting contest over islam vs. any other religion...he's usually just been talking to other muslims about their own religion.

:sarb:


Afghani Z and I went at it when he first joined, mostly over semantics of the "self".

:D

[adren@line]

1. You embarrass no one but yourself.
2. No one tries to convert you, they merely try to correct the flawed and ridiculous information you try to pass as truth.
3. Don't flatter yourself. You have nothing on Hell.

:idea:

I dont pass off flawed and ridiculous information as truth.

If I did that, my arguments would basically come down to "this is what I believe , regardless if I can prove it or not...if you dont agree, then tuff shit".

The fact is that I use logic and rationale in my arguments. I also use historical facts which are sourced from Muslim texts.

And yes, I will embarrass the living hell out of the first Muslim that tries to convert me. Hopefull when they try, there will be alot of people around.

Should be fun.
:D

[adren@line]

hell, maybe ill video tape it and post in you youtube and title it

"Muslim stumped by Hindu".


:D

[misspathani.]

hell, maybe ill video tape it and post in you youtube and title it

"Muslim stumped by Hindu".


:D
Calm down.
Pathetic.

[Muslima786]

So then you should have an equal amount of problem when people drag irreligion into threads oriented towards religion. Yet you dont. Therefore you're just trying to cover your own tail, nothing more. All this liberalism, humanism rubbish is just a facade. I've debated induviduals like you all my life, they always lose. In reality what motivates them isnt some quest for enlightenment , tolerance or open mindedness, no rather it's just some need to cope with their degeneracy. They dont disregard morality because morality is untrue, they do so to console their failures.
:salut:

lol the pwnage of ftj by Afghan ZMarai is the best of the kind Ive encountered on these forums to date.

[adren@line]

Calm down.
Pathetic.

why dont you calm down about me calming down?

[misspathani.]

why dont you calm down about me calming down?
Calm down.

[adren@line]

Calm down.

or else what?

[misspathani.]

or else what?
Calm down.

[adren@line]

Calm down.

why dont you give me dawah?

[pathanipakora]

bro.. at first I thought pathanipak was a girl.. :neutral: I think hes mad cos he thinks u r 'showing off' instead he shud be happy, or wanting to learn from wat u say about Islam. Thats the problem nowadays..they dont wanna listen.


noo the prob is u jumping to conclusion haha i listeneddto him, there was noting to be impress abt :D

[Vixenator]

when a muslim finds a leaf clover in their snow cone .

[FTJfag]

:salut:

lol the pwnage of ftj by Afghan ZMarai is the best of the kind Ive encountered on these forums to date.

haha. Your fucking username is "Muslim" of course you're going to suck his cock.

[FiStiK]

I dont pass off flawed and ridiculous information as truth.

If I did that, my arguments would basically come down to "this is what I believe , regardless if I can prove it or not...if you dont agree, then tuff shit".

The fact is that I use logic and rationale in my arguments. I also use historical facts which are sourced from Muslim texts.

And yes, I will embarrass the living hell out of the first Muslim that tries to convert me. Hopefull when they try, there will be alot of people around.

Should be fun.
:D

Your interpretation of Muslim texts is based on your own flawed theories and baseless prejudices. They are thus compromised at the outset. There is nothing more logical or rational than that.
Your MO is to tell other people what they believe. There is nothing you can do or say to prove that they believe what you say they have to believe. It doesn't work, hon. Unless you can find one Muslim that agrees with what you are saying about their own religion, your information is baseless, ridiculous, and flawed. You tell us that we believe X, Y, Z, and then we tell you no, we actually believe 1, 2, 3.

I have repeatedly stated that I could care less if you agree with Islam or not. Just don't try to paint the shit you spout some other colour, k? It still smells like shit, you dig?

Islam has a designation for people like you. We aren't evangelical Chrisitans or Mormons who have to convert people like you. We tell you what Islam is, what it stands for, you have your own beliefs, bang, that's it.
We are actually advised not to continue conversation/discussion with such people. If you know the Quran as you claim, you would know what I'm referring to.

On that note, adios.

[pathanipakora]

I dont pass off flawed and ridiculous information as truth.

If I did that, my arguments would basically come down to "this is what I believe , regardless if I can prove it or not...if you dont agree, then tuff shit".

The fact is that I use logic and rationale in my arguments. I also use historical facts which are sourced from Muslim texts.

And yes, I will embarrass the living hell out of the first Muslim that tries to convert me. Hopefull when they try, there will be alot of people around.

Should be fun.
:D


no 1 is trying to convert u so take a chill pill...

[FiStiK]

:salut:

lol the pwnage of ftj by Afghan ZMarai is the best of the kind Ive encountered on these forums to date.
Word.
It's pwnage to the max.

[FTJfag]

Unless you can find one Muslim that agrees with what you are saying about their own religion, your information is baseless, ridiculous, and flawed.

Find me one member of the KKK that thinks racism is wrong.

[FTJfag]

It's a given that every Muslim is going to think I got owned. Shiiit.

[zeeweed]

i think it's, if u believe in the first kalma, u are muslim. discuss..


YESSSSS!


tht and ur sister marrying me, as wife #3,

fo sho!!!!!! ;)

[FiStiK]

Find me one member of the KKK that thinks racism is wrong.
What does that have to do with anything? Members of the KKK may not say that racism is wrong, but they will still tell you that they practice it :idea:
So more than a billion of us are that brainwashed?

Adrenaline has a habit of claiming that that it is within Islam and the Quran to kill people and invade and commit monstrous acts of violence and terror.
He believes that Islam condones this.

Even the terrorists will tell you that that is not true.
Do you honestly believe that within the fastest growing religion in the world, with more converts than any other, people will say that they agree that the Quran tells them to do the above? People convert to this religion, apparently, and can align themselves to these purported values? One fifth of the world's population?

Does that make any sense to you?

[FiStiK]

I'm out.
I don't wish to pursue worthless argument.

[pacora]

No one cares to try to convert your sorry ass adrenaline. so your purpose in this thread in trying to embarrass anyone has failed. go get a life now.

[adren@line]

here we go again...round 5000....


:D


Your interpretation of them is based on your own flawed theories and baseless prejudices. They are thus compromised at the outset. There is nothing more logical or rational than that.
ofcourse there is.

I interpret the Quran literally, word-for-word.
I believe that "real" Muslims do the same thing.
Therefore, real Muslims would be people like Al-Queda.

There is nothing illogical about that.

Those are my beliefs on Islam, which I back up with historical proof and a literal interpretation of the Quran.

Ask Khan Noonien Singh. It basically comes down to what each individual consideres "real" Islam.

I (as well as all of these terrorists and Jihadis) consider real Islam to be the violent, literal strain.

Many, many other Muslims (like Khan) believe otherwise.
There is supporting evidence for both, and arguments can be made for both.

In the end, everything you throw at me I can throw back at you.

Your MO is to tell other people what they believe. There is nothing you can do or say to prove that they believe what you say they have to believe. It doesn't work, hon. Unless you can find one Muslim that agrees with what you are saying about their own religion, your information is baseless, ridiculous, and flawed. You tell us that we believe X, Y, Z, and then we tell you no, we actually believe 1, 2, 3.


my MO is not to tell others what they believe.
Im not trying to change any of the Muslims minds here.

Theyll keep believing "Islam means peace...yadda yadda yadda" and ill keep believing in the opposite.

I come here to argue.
Thats it. That isnt a secret.
Everyone knows that.

I dont really give a crap if Muslims change their beliefs because of me.

Unless you can find one Muslim that agrees with what you are saying about their own religion, your information is baseless, ridiculous, and flawed. You tell us that we believe X, Y, Z, and then we tell you no, we actually believe 1, 2, 3.
ofcourse there are Muslims who agree with my interpretations of Islam.
They are from the same group who flew two airplanes into the world trade towers.

I have repeatedly stated that I could care less if you agree with Islam or not. Just don't try to paint the shit you spout some other colour, k? It still smells like shit, you dig?
Its called logic.

You simply stating that "what you say is bullshit" doesnt really refute anything.

at all.

You simply disagree with what I say as based on your version of Islam and then assume that any alternative interpretations are false.

Well, that is subjective .
You cant pass off something that is based on opinion as fact.

You can only pass it off as a belief.

Islam has a designation for people like you. We aren't evangelical Chrisitans or Mormons who have to convert people like you. We tell you what Islam is, what it stands for, you have your own beliefs, bang, that's it.
We are actually advised not to continue conversation/discussion with such people. If you know the Quran as you claim, you would know what I'm referring to.

On that, adios.
Ofcourse Islam has a designation for people like me.
Mohhamed knew that people would argue against Islam and expose its flaws (something that is easy), so he designated all kinds of derogatory names for people like me to appease the Muslim concious that they really follow "the" truth, and that some "idolotrous infidel" such as myself doesnt realllyyyyyyyy know what he is talking about.

whatever helps you sleep at night, I suppose.

:D

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

neh i got no beef, haha and no u corrected me right, its just defference of opinion and i agree with u so notin 4 me to be mad. all i said if u r so into this, u can put it for a good use somewhere else and act help ALOT more ppl


You confused me , I dont even know what you're talking about anymore. Are you talking about my comments to FTJ or my other comments? Because if it was the latter I explained that, if its about the other stuff , how did I say things the "wrong" way. Please do educate me.

[FTJfag]

What does that have to do with anything?

You said:

Unless you can find one Muslim that agrees with what you are saying about their own religion, your information is baseless, ridiculous, and flawed.

You’re saying that his opinion is flawed because he can’t find a believer to defy his/her own belief. Talk about oxymoron….

That’s precisely like someone telling you to find a KKK member that believes racism is wrong.

So are you telling me, that just because we can’t find a KKK member that defies racism, my information is baseless, ridiculous, and flawed?

I ain't buying that, kid.

[adren@line]

No one cares to try to convert your sorry ass adrenaline. so your purpose in this thread in trying to embarrass anyone has failed. go get a life now.

you seem to have trouble in distinguishing between real life and ratedesi.

I was obviously reffering to real life.

You all should say prayers for the first Muslim that tries to spread his or her "dawah" to me. Pray that no Muslim is un-fortunate to cross my path with his attempt to convert this "lowly Hindu" to the "Arab religion of truth".

the intellectual slaughter that will commence will be a sight to behold.

:D

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

here we go again...round 5000....

ofcourse there is.

I interpret the Quran literally, word-for-word.
I believe that "real" Muslims do the same thing.
Therefore, real Muslims would be people like Al-Queda.

There is nothing illogical about that.


Actually thats not true, I recall recently you were discussing several verses from the Quran which have the phrases "kill them wherever you find them". I revealed the related verses and your response was something to the effect "it can be interpreted to mean kill any and all unbelievers irregardless of the context. This means you do in fact read what you choose to read in it, rather then the Quranic text itself.

[FiStiK]

You said:

Unless you can find one Muslim that agrees with what you are saying about their own religion, your information is baseless, ridiculous, and flawed.

You’re saying that his opinion is flawed because he can’t find a believer to defy his/her own belief. Talk about oxymoron….

That’s precisely like someone telling you to find a KKK member that believes racism is wrong.

So are you telling me, that just because we can’t find a KKK member that defies racism, my information is baseless, ridiculous, and flawed?

I ain't buying that, kid.
Find me a believing Christian who will say that Christ would condone burning non believers, let alone other professing Christians, at the stake. (Ie, Catholics burning Protestants, Protestants killing Catholics).

Does that make it a little clearer?


I'm telling you that your comparison to the KKK is not applicable.

[adren@line]

What does that have to do with anything? Members of the KKK may not say that racism is wrong, but they will still tell you that they practice it :idea:
So more than a billion of us are that brainwashed?

Adrenaline has a habit of claiming that that it is within Islam and the Quran to kill people and invade and commit monstrous acts of violence and terror.
He believes that Islam condones this.

Even the terrorists will tell you that that is not true.
Do you honestly believe that within the fastest growing religion in the world, with more converts than any other, people will say that they agree that the Quran tells them to do the above? People convert to this religion, apparently, and can align themselves to these purported values? One fifth of the world's population?

Does that make any sense to you?
the teachings of a religion such as Islam are not verified by the common consensus or the popular opinion.

They are verified by what is in the Quran and in the basic beliefs of Islam.

Your argument is basically:

"Since alot of people agree with my viewpoint and disagree with yours, then I must be right, regardless of literary evidence".

[pacora]

you seem to have trouble in distinguishing between real life and ratedesi.

I was obviously reffering to real life.

You all should say prayers for the first Muslim that tries to spread his or her "dawah" to me. Pray that no Muslim is un-fortunate to cross my path with his attempt to convert this "lowly Hindu" to the "Arab religion of truth".

the intellectual slaughter that will commence will be a sight to behold.

:D
omg. your e-scaring me :Ohno:. just shut the fuck up. why are you trying to brag about it on ratedesi. and your porbably never going to be in taht situaton anyway.

[adren@line]

Actually thats not true, I recall recently you were discussing several verses from the Quran which have the phrases "kill them wherever you find them". I revealed the related verses and your response was something to the effect "it can be interpreted to mean kill any and all unbelievers irregardless of the context. This means you do in fact read what you choose to read in it, rather then the Quranic text itself.

I gave two (or three) plausible interpetations as based on a very literal interpretation of those Quranic passages, and as based on the succession of each passage and how they tied in togethor.

All of the options fit the scripture, and both condoned the killing of "any" idolater, just under slightly different circumstances.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

the teachings of a religion such as Islam are not verified by the common consensus or the popular opinion.

They are verified by what is in the Quran and in the basic beliefs of Islam.

Your argument is basically:

"Since alot of people agree with my viewpoint and disagree with yours, then I must be right, regardless of literary evidence".


Well then please lets discuss the opinion of the consensus of Scholars(Ulemah) regarding the matters that concern you.

[adren@line]

omg. your e-scaring me :Ohno:. just shut the fuck up. why are you trying to brag about it on ratedesi. and your porbably never going to be in taht situaton anyway.


why are you telling me to "shut the fuck up"?

Am I making you mad?

...over ratedesi?


you shouldnt get so mad.

Im just a dumb "kaffir".

:D

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

I gave two (or three) plausible interpetations as based on a very literal interpretation of those Quranic passages, and as based on the succession of each passage and how they tied in togethor.

All of the options fit the scripture, and both condoned the killing of "any" idolater, just under slightly different circumstances.


You didnt do that because I showed you in the related verses this relates to the context of Unbelievers who are directly engaged in conflict with Muslims.I caught you slanting the verses, you're just covering your own hide. If you want we can revisit that discussion and we can have the audience decide if you slanted the context of the verses or not.

[pacora]

why are you telling me to "shut the fuck up"?

Am I making you mad?

...over ratedesi?


you shouldnt get so mad.

Im just a dumb "kaffir".

:D
no im not mad at all. its just that you are annoying because you are very hard headed and have no clue what you are babbling about most of the time thats all. :D e-brag on dear. its very good for your ego.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

It's a given that every Muslim is going to think I got owned. Shiiit.


Earlier you were claiming I'm of the bottom of the barrel and most of the Muslims look down upon me. tooting a new flute now huh? :D

[adren@line]

Well then please lets discuss the opinion of the consensus of Scholars(Ulemah) regarding the matters that concern you.

been there done that... a million times.

the common consensus is that chapter 9 refers to a specific time and place and musnt be taken literally. it comes down to historical context.

my refutation is

1. the historical context isnt mentioned in the quran, therefore it isnt the word of God.

2. even if you assumed historical context, that would mean that chapter 9 is obsolete and unapplicable to modern times, thus negating the Islam belief that "islam is for all men and for all times" , when chapter 9 is considered obsolete by the "common consensus".

[FTJfag]

Find me a believing Christian who will say that Christ would condone burning non believers, let alone other professing Christians, at the stake. (Ie, Catholics burning Protestants, Protestants killing Catholics).

Does that make it a little clearer?




Do we live in the same world?

You're saying there is not one Christian out there who would condone the slaughtering of non-believers? I don't know which rock you've been living under, but in the real world, you get fanatics from EVERY religion that believes in the slaughtering of non-believers, in respect to their religious "leader"

People kill every day for their God thinking they’re doing God’s work. What do you think the majority of modern day wars are based on?

[adren@line]

You didnt do that because I showed you in the related verses this relates to the context of Unbelievers who are directly engaged in conflict with Muslims.I caught you slanting the verses, you're just covering your own hide. If you want we can revisit that discussion and we can have the audience decide if you slanted the context of the verses or not.


well, find the topic and we can look at my replies.
I dont feel like re-typing all of that again.

I didnt slant them.
I interpreted them as literally as I could.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

been there done that... a million times.

the common consensus is that chapter 9 refers to a specific time and place and musnt be taken literally. it comes down to historical context.

my refutation is

1. the historical context isnt mentioned in the quran, therefore it isnt the word of God.

2. even if you assumed historical context, that would mean that chapter 9 is obsolete and unapplicable to modern times, thus negating the Islam belief that "islam is for all men and for all times" , when chapter 9 is considered obsolete by the "common consensus".

The circumstantial context was explained in the Quran thats what my post dealt with. You're looking for diversions now. Would you like to revisit the that debate so I can show you once again where your contextual error was based on the Qu'ranic verses themselves?

[adren@line]

no im not mad at all. its just that you are annoying because you are very hard headed and have no clue what you are babbling about most of the time thats all. :D e-brag on dear. its very good for your ego.

what I do with my ego isnt of your concern.
But yeah, its good to smile.

:D

[FiStiK]

the teachings of a religion such as Islam are not verified by the common consensus or the popular opinion.

They are verified by what is in the Quran and in the basic beliefs of Islam.

Your argument is basically:

"Since alot of people agree with my viewpoint and disagree with yours, then I must be right, regardless of literary evidence".

Sigh.
My argument is that your interpretation of the Quran is wonderfully individual, in that no one who actually follows the religion would agree with it. :idea:
That's why there is so much argumentation.

So you see, it's your opinion of what we believe, but it's not what we believe. I actually do not really care about discussing semantics with you, seriously, the point of my post to you was to try to let you know that no one cares enough to convert you. You either get it or you don't. I honestly could care less.
Again, it stems from personal prejudice. Some people have a virulent hatred for Christianity and hate on it like there is no tomorrow, you have a similar hatred for Islam. The underlying point here is that it would cloud any objective analysis.

I have no argument with you. I just think that within these forums Adrenaline vs. Most Other Muslims should give you a clue.

Please, please do not respond to this. There is no point.

[adren@line]

The circumstantial context was explained in the Quran thats what my post dealt with. You're looking for diversions now. Would you like to revisit the that debate so I can show you once again where your contextual error was based on the Qu'ranic verses themselves?


sure go ahead.

[FTJfag]

Earlier you were claiming I'm of the bottom of the barrel and most of the Muslims look down upon me. tooting a new flute now huh? :D

Every Muslim on RD will agree with you, I was implying.

People in the real world, the one's that have balanced lives, and are open to a life beyond purely religion; they'll consider you the chump at the bottom of the barrel =x

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

well, find the topic and we can look at my replies.
I dont feel like re-typing all of that again.

I didnt slant them.
I interpreted them as literally as I could.


As Literally as you could isnt good enough because that delineates subjectivity. You Just basically confirmed subjectivity and therefore slanting. Your replies were simply were essentially that "it could be interpreted another way". Which means you werent looking at it literally in the first place. Nice Try Adrenaline.

[FiStiK]

Do we live in the same world?

You're saying there is not one Christian out there who would condone the slaughtering of non-believers? I don't know which rock you've been living under, but in the real world, you get fanatics from EVERY religion that believes in the slaughtering of non-believers, in respect to their religious "leader"

People kill every day for their God thinking they’re doing God’s work. What do you think the majority of modern day wars are based on?

Sigh.
Please read what I wrote again.

Is there anything that Christ did, or anything in his teachings, that would support such actions? Could any Christian claim that Christ burnt people at the stake? You are clearly unable to understand the nuance of the argument I am making.

People can do anything and say it is the name of religion. I thought we were past this. Look at the teachings, dude. That's the point.

PS: The two greatest wars in the history of the world (WWI and WWII) had absolutely nothing to do with religion. Neither did the Cold War, for that matter. :idea:

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

sure go ahead.


“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever you catch them and drive them out from whence they drove you out, for oppression is worse than killing. But do not engage in combat with them at the sacred mosque unless they engage you in combat there. But if they combat against you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And combat them on until there is no more oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. But if they cease, don't let there be hostility except to those who practice oppression.”
[Surah al-Baqarah: 190-193]


:D

[adren@line]

Sigh.
My argument is that your interpretation of the Quran is wonderfully individual, in that no one who actually follows the religion would agree with it. :idea:
That's why there is so much argumentation.



wrong.

There are plenty of Muslims who agree with it.
Hell, one of the late Ayatollahs of Iran agrees with my opinion.

The Muslims who blew up the London underground agree with my interpretation.

The Muslims who were involved in the 3000+ terrorist acts since 9/11 agree with me, otherwise they would be running around killing people (which "good Muslims" arent apparantly supposed to do").

The Iraqi, Afghan, Turk, and Iranian Muslims who routinely invaded India and slaughtered Hindus agreed with my interpretation.

Al-Hajjaj Bin Yusef, who lived a mere 70 years after the Prophet insisted that Hindus and those who werent People of the Book be killed or enslaved. This was merely 70 years after the death of Mohhamed.

so dont give me that shieet.

Maybe in your moderate, westernized Islamic circle, people dont agree with me.

but I can guarantee that if you go to the "heart" of the Islamic world (the middle east), there will be plenty of people who agree with what I state.

[FiStiK]

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever you catch them and drive them out from whence they drove you out, for oppression is worse than killing. But do not engage in combat with them at the sacred mosque unless they engage you in combat there. But if they combat against you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And combat them on until there is no more oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. But if they cease, don't let there be hostility except to those who practice oppression.”
[Surah al-Baqarah: 190-193]


:D

Thank you Sensei.
This will save me the response for the other post.
God bless you.

[adren@line]

As Literally as you could isnt good enough because that delineates subjectivity. You Just basically confirmed subjectivity and therefore slanting. Your replies were simply were essentially that "it could be interpreted another way". Which means you werent looking at it literally in the first place. Nice Try Adrenaline.

ofcourse its subjective, but to a much , much, much , much smaller degree than the "average" interpretation as based on outside texts such as the hadith.


“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever you catch them and drive them out from whence they drove you out, for oppression is worse than killing. But do not engage in combat with them at the sacred mosque unless they engage you in combat there. But if they combat against you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And combat them on until there is no more oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. But if they cease, don't let there be hostility except to those who practice oppression.”
[Surah al-Baqarah: 190-193]
sorry buddy.

that isnt one of the three mainstream accepted english translations, as evidenced from USC"s website http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html

nice trick though.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

wrong.

There are plenty of Muslims who agree with it.
Hell, one of the late Ayatollahs of Iran agrees with my opinion.

The Muslims who blew up the London underground agree with my interpretation.

The Muslims who were involved in the 3000+ terrorist acts since 9/11 agree with me, otherwise they would be running around killing people (which "good Muslims" arent apparantly supposed to do").

The Iraqi, Afghan, Turk, and Iranian Muslims who routinely invaded India and slaughtered Hindus agreed with my interpretation.

Al-Hajjaj Bin Yusef, who lived a mere 70 years after the Prophet insisted that Hindus and those who werent People of the Book be killed or enslaved. This was merely 70 years after the death of Mohhamed.

so dont give me that shieet.

Maybe in your moderate, westernized Islamic circle, people dont agree with me.

but I can guarantee that if you go to the "heart" of the Islamic world (the middle east), there will be plenty of people who agree with what I state.

Thats not true in fact Afghans such as Sher Shah Suri and Bahlol Lodhi(may Allah be pleased with both of them) used to actually facilitate and fortify the Indian subcontinent and improved their trade, for example building The Grand Trunk Road. Largely because of them India became very wealthy in the middle ages. The standard of living of Indians Hindu and Non-Hindu improved extensively.

[FiStiK]

The distinction to be made here is between what Islam teaches and what people do.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

ofcourse its subjective, but to a much , much, much , much smaller degree than the "average" interpretation as based on outside texts such as the hadith.



sorry buddy.

that isnt one of the three mainstream accepted english translations, as evidenced from USC"s website http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html

nice trick though.

LOL thats pathetic the University of Southern California's MSA isnt the official consensus on Which translations are accepted and which ones are not. Thats a really corny excuse. Shall I accept that as a unofficial conceding on your part? :D

[adren@line]

Thats not true in fact Afghans such as Sher Shah Suri and Bahlol Lodhi(may Allah be pleased with both of them) used to actually facilitate and fortify the Indian subcontinent and improved their trade, for example building The Grand Trunk Road. Largely because of them India became very wealthy in the middle ages. The standard of living of Indians Hindu and Non-Hindu improved extensively.

there are exceptions ofcourse.

like Akbar.

Either way, both Sher Shah an the Lodhis did not belong on Indian land.

at all. They were foreigners ruling over a different people.

Kind of like what the US is doing today in Iraq or Afghanistan.
They may be re-building each country to an extent, but obviously most Muslims dont give a shit.

They dont belong there.

same concept.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

wrong.

There are plenty of Muslims who agree with it.
Hell, one of the late Ayatollahs of Iran agrees with my opinion.

The Muslims who blew up the London underground agree with my interpretation.

The Muslims who were involved in the 3000+ terrorist acts since 9/11 agree with me, otherwise they would be running around killing people (which "good Muslims" arent apparantly supposed to do").

The Iraqi, Afghan, Turk, and Iranian Muslims who routinely invaded India and slaughtered Hindus agreed with my interpretation.

Al-Hajjaj Bin Yusef, who lived a mere 70 years after the Prophet insisted that Hindus and those who werent People of the Book be killed or enslaved. This was merely 70 years after the death of Mohhamed.

so dont give me that shieet.

Maybe in your moderate, westernized Islamic circle, people dont agree with me.

but I can guarantee that if you go to the "heart" of the Islamic world (the middle east), there will be plenty of people who agree with what I state.

they actually don't. i go there all the time :p they sympathize with al-qaeda because they're Muslim, and they're doing something. but they themselves don't agree on religious grounds with al-qaeda. not even the leading sunni scholars of the time endorse al-qaeda. even tho they might condemn the same things al-qaeda condemns. osama has badly needed their endorsement, and has not gotten it.

and historical context doesn't mean it would make it unapplicable to modern times. the historical context helps shed light on the meaning, since the Qur'an goes hand in hand with Muhammad's life since he revealed it over the process of 20 years. and then the overall meaning or IDEA behind the verses can be applied to any similar situation.

that's like saying...julius caesar cannot be paralleled again ever... because its history. that's just silly. of course someone could come to power in a similar manner, and get knocked off the same way.

[FTJfag]

Sigh.
Please read what I wrote again.

Is there anything that Christ did, or anything in his teachings, that would support such actions? Could any Christian claim that Christ burnt people at the stake? You are clearly unable to understand the nuance of the argument I am making.

People can do anything and say it is the name of religion. I thought we were past this. Look at the teachings, dude. That's the point.

PS: The two greatest wars in the history of the world (WWI and WWII) had absolutely nothing to do with religion. Neither did the Cold War, for that matter. :idea:

Sigh,
Please reread what you wrote.

You asked me to find you a Christian that believes in the burning of non-believers. Whether Christ encourages or frowns upon that movement is redundant. I'm pretty confident I can find you a Christian that believes in the slaughtering of non-believers. Just like I can find you a thousand Muslims who support the slaughtering of non-believers. They still call themselves Muslims, and they're still called Muslims.

Yes, exactly, people can do anything and say it's in the same of religion. Just like a Muslim can consume Alcohol or buy a lottery ticket and still be labelled a Muslim, but that's not taught, aye?

P.s I said "modern day" wars.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

there are exceptions ofcourse.

like Akbar.

Either way, both Sher Shah an the Lodhis did not belong on Indian land.

at all. They were foreigners ruling over a different people.

Kind of like what the US is doing today in Iraq or Afghanistan.
They may be re-building each country to an extent, but obviously most Muslims dont give a shit.

They dont belong there.

same concept.

They belonged there , in fact it was the rulers that preceded the Khaljis , Sayyids , Lodhis and Suris which didnt belong there considering that they used to squander your peoples livlihood nonsensically. The Lodhis and Suris did great things for you and your people, and unlike Akbar were ORTHODOX Muslims.

[adren@line]

LOL thats pathetic the University of Southern California's MSA isnt the official consensus on Which translations are accepted and which ones are not. Thats a really corny excuse. Shall I accept that as a unofficial conceding on your part? :D

well, I use those three translations. Always have. Thats no secret.

Ill trust USC over the junk you posted, which isnt even sourced.

I have the feeling its from some crappy Muslim website, and not an academic source.

so no im not conceding.
im stating that we both refer to the three translations from a highly respected establishment such as USC, as opposed to www.e-mullah.net or whatever.

[FTJfag]

The distinction to be made here is between what Islam teaches and what people do.

That wasn't really the initial point you were raving at me about. But I guess it was foolish of me to take your words literally and not comprehend what you intended to be self-implied!

[adren@line]

They belonged there , in fact it was the rulers that preceded the Khaljis , Sayyids , Lodhis and Suris which didnt belong there considering that they used to squander your peoples livlihood nonsensically. The Lodhis and Suris did great things for you and your people, and unlike Akbar were ORTHODOX Muslims.

I doubt it.
I beleive that people like Aurangzeb were orthodox Muslims (different argument though).

anyways, the same logic can be applied to the Iraq war.

do YOU support the Iraq war?

Do you support the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq by foriegners?

I highly doubt it.

They dont belong there.

[FiStiK]

Sigh,
Please reread what you wrote.

You asked me to find you a Christian that believes in the burning of non-believers. Whether Christ encourages or frowns upon that movement is redundant. I'm pretty confident I can find you a Christian that believes in the slaughtering of non-believers. Just like I can find you a thousand Muslims who support the slaughtering of non-believers. They still call themselves Muslims, and they're still called Muslims.

Yes, exactly, people can do anything and say it's in the same of religion. Just like a Muslim can consume Alcohol or buy a lottery ticket and still be labelled a Muslim, but that's not taught, aye?

P.s I said "modern day" wars.
No, but you clearly do not understand what Adrenaline is all about.
Adrenaline likes to go on about that fact that Islam and Muhammed (PBUH) CONDONE this. This is what the problem is. Not that people don't do it, duh of course they do. They can back it up however they like. But to actually believe that Islam or any religion propogates this is stupidity.

That's the nuance, babe. What you are saying is common sense.
I don't care what people say or do in the name of religion. That's not what the religion advocates.

The Americans, for example, have caused widespread havoc all over the world basically, in the name of capitalist forces, 'freedom', 'democracy', and fighting Communism (Ie, Contras, Lumumba, Chile, etc).

Did Adam Smith detail anywhere in his writings that to spread market forces one would have to go around doing what the Americans have done? Do the concepts of freedom and democracy (as broad and overarching as they are) entail that?

[adren@line]

And Afghan, since when do orthodox Muslims fight with other Muslims to defend idolaters?

thats laughable at best.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Ok It's safe to say that Adrenaline has been wildly clobbered, he's diverted his original argument of interpreting the Quran literally to a totally inconsequential decision of the University of Southern California's choice to show only a particular 3 translations of the Quran.

Shall I say PWNED now? Or should I wait till his sissy theatrics are over? :D

[FTJfag]

No, but you clearly do not understand what Adrenaline is all about.
Adrenaline likes to go on about that fact that Islam and Muhammed (PBUH) CONDONE this. This is what the problem is. Not that people don't do it, duh of course they do. They can back it up however they like. But do actually believe that Islam or any religion propogates this is stupidity.

That's the nuance, babe. What you are saying is common sense.
I don't care what people say or do in the name of religion. That's not what the religion advocates.

The Americans, for example, have caused widespread havoc all over the world basically, in the name of capitalist forces, 'freedom', 'democracy', and fighting Communism (Ie, Contras, Lumumba, Chile, etc).

Did Adam Smith detail anywhere in his writings that to spread market forces one would have to go around doing what the Americans have done? Do the concepts of freedom and democracy (as broad and overarching as they are) entail that?

Yeah, you're changing the issue on me, boss.

I merely responded to what you directly said to me. I can't be bothered to get tangled in the "he said that, and I said that" web.

I'm bored of this anyways.

[pacora]

I doubt it.
I beleive that people like Aurangzeb were orthodox Muslims (different argument though).

anyways, the same logic can be applied to the Iraq war.

do YOU support the Iraq war?

Do you support the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq by foriegners?

I highly doubt it.

They dont belong there.
if you bellieve that aurangzeb was orthodox muslim, than we might as well be arguing with a wall. no one has anythign to argue with you than since you dont even agree with the very basic point that almost every muslim here is trying to make.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

And Afghan, since when do orthodox Muslims fight with other Muslims to defend idolaters?

thats laughable at best.


Since Sher Shah Suri(ra) and Bahlol Lodhi(ra) went to India and deposed the Rajas who were exploiting your people :D