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106Kn104D
March 24th, 2006, 07:27 PM
NEW YORK - Christian lobby groups are urging President Bush to do more to save a man on trial in Afghanistan for converting from Islam to Christianity.

Anger among American Christians continued to mount against the U.S.-backed government of Afghanistan, where Abdul Rahman, a 41-year-old former medical aid worker, faces the death penalty under Islamic laws for becoming a Christian.

Rahman's trial, which started last week, has fired passions in conservative Muslim Afghanistan and highlighted a conflict of values between Afghanistan and its Western backers — notably American Christians who cheered the Bush administration when it toppled the oppressive Taliban regime.

American Christians have criticized the Bush administration for what they feel is an inadequate response to a fundamental issue of freedom of conscience.

"That there should even be such a trial is an outrage. How can we congratulate ourselves for liberating Afghanistan from the rule of jihadists only to be ruled by radical Islamists who kill Christians?" Family Research Council president Tony Perkins said in a statement.

"Americans will not give their blood and treasure to prop up new Islamic fundamentalist regimes. Religious freedom is not just 'an important element' of democracy; it is its cornerstone. Religious persecution leads inevitably to political tyranny. Five hundred years of history confirm this. Americans have not given their lives so that Christians can be put to death," Perkins said.

Such sentiments are spreading through Christian radio stations, Web sites and blogs, stoked by traditional conservative institutions as National Review magazine.

National Review Online quoted Chuck Colson, a former Nixon White House official, disgraced by Watergate and rehabilitated as a Christian preacher, as saying:

"I have supported the Bush administration's foreign policy because I came to believe that the best way to stop Islamo-fascism was by promoting democracy," Colson said. "But if we can't guarantee fundamental religious freedoms in the countries where we establish democratic reforms, then the whole credibility of our foreign policy is thrown into serious question."

The American Family Association has organized an Internet campaign to e-mail Bush and "ask him to intervene to save the life of Abdul Rahman. Help get others involved in saving the life of this Christian who refuses to deny Christ."

Bush expressed alarm this week, and on Thursday, Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice phoned Karzai, seeking a "favorable resolution" of the Rahman case.

Rice spokesman Sean McCormack said she told Karzai it is important for the Afghan people to know that freedom of religion is observed in their country.

Diplomats have said the Afghan government is searching for a way to drop the case. On Wednesday, authorities said Rahman is suspected of being mentally ill and would undergo psychological examinations to see whether he is fit to stand trial.

If Rahman is executed, political experts agree, Bush will have alienated his most loyal core constituency — Christian conservatives.

"The Bush administration simply cannot let this happen. They have to stop this one way or the other. It would make a mockery of much of what President Bush has about our creation of a new democracy in Afghanistan," said Professor Larry Sabato of the University of Virginia, a keen analyst of American political trends.

"It splits his base, and it will be endless trouble for him if it goes forward, and I'm sure he won't it happen," Sabato said.

The largest Protestant denomination in America, the usually conservative Southern Baptists, also mobilized on the issue:

"The American people are not sending their young men and women to Afghanistan for this definition of freedom," said Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. "Compulsion in the name of any religion is shameful and should be rejected by any sincere professor of any religion. Mr. Rahman should be released immediately.

Christian activists have had strong influence over particular Bush foreign policy issues which they see as morally pivotal.

Christian lobbyists have focused on global trafficking in refugees, especially sex slaves; tried to pacify a two-decade war in Sudan between the Muslim government in the north and Christian and animist groups in the south; and have tried to crack
North Korea's oppressive isolation by sending aid to covert Christian groups and smuggling out refugees.

Republican Congressman Chris Smith wrote to Bush saying that "the arrest of Mr. Rahman indicates that religious freedom and the fundamental human rights of not just this one man, but of each and every Afghan citizen, are still not fully protected in Afghanistan."

The Compass Direct News Agency, a group that monitors the persecutions of Christians worldwide, reported this week that two more Afghan Christians have been arrested and said more are being beaten and harassed by Afghans riled over the Rahman case.

106Kn104D
March 24th, 2006, 07:28 PM
These extremist (and those who support them) needs to be killed for putting a man on trial due to converting out their religion. Not trying to take a jab at Islam but isnt it supposed to be a tolerant religion? And we have people complaining here about how West isnt fair.

adren@line
March 24th, 2006, 07:40 PM
third or fourth time this has been posted.

and listen you westernized moderates:

stop trying to say that youre western-influenced, college-learned, starbucks version of Islam is the "right" Islam and that the form of Islam as practice for over 1000 years in the middle east (the birthplace of Islam) is wrong.

it wont fly. This "kill people who convert to Christianity" type of Islam has been present for over 1000 years. This "Our religion means peace and we love everyone" version of Islam has only been around for 50 years or so, and is the product of liberalized moderates who are influenced by humane kaffir ideologies in western nations.

1000 years > 50 years.

:D

jihadthisfilth
March 24th, 2006, 07:47 PM
1000 years > 50 years.

Most stupid quote of the day...

saxakali
March 24th, 2006, 07:54 PM
wasn't an arab christian family murdered a couple years ago in New Jersey for probably a similar reason? :sarb: ....

Down with religious extremists!!!!

jihadthisfilth
March 24th, 2006, 07:55 PM
These extremist (and those who support them) needs to be killed
hahahaha what a contradiction... oh I do love children.

arbigooner
March 24th, 2006, 08:27 PM
third or fourth time this has been posted.

and listen you westernized moderates:

stop trying to say that youre western-influenced, college-learned, starbucks version of Islam is the "right" Islam and that the form of Islam as practice for over 1000 years in the middle east (the birthplace of Islam) is wrong.

it wont fly. This "kill people who convert to Christianity" type of Islam has been present for over 1000 years. This "Our religion means peace and we love everyone" version of Islam has only been around for 50 years or so, and is the product of liberalized moderates who are influenced by humane kaffir ideologies in western nations.

1000 years > 50 years.

:D
you just never stop do you. bullshit.

thebrownone
March 24th, 2006, 08:37 PM
third or fourth time this has been posted.

and listen you westernized moderates:

stop trying to say that youre western-influenced, college-learned, starbucks version of Islam is the "right" Islam and that the form of Islam as practice for over 1000 years in the middle east (the birthplace of Islam) is wrong.

it wont fly. This "kill people who convert to Christianity" type of Islam has been present for over 1000 years. This "Our religion means peace and we love everyone" version of Islam has only been around for 50 years or so, and is the product of liberalized moderates who are influenced by humane kaffir ideologies in western nations.

1000 years > 50 years.

:D
look just because the traditional version has been there has little to do with the implementing of the newer version..

christianity was also just as hostile but it leveled out.....

just because a version has been around for 1000 or so years doens nessecarraly mean its right, take a sociological veiw of it, the hunting and gathering groups way back when human society was in its prenatal stage lasted for way more than a 1000 years, however we would all agree that the next stage, the agrarian society, was much better.....

time fixes all things wrong eventually, so if this islam has been around 1000 years time is just fixing it now

adren@line
March 24th, 2006, 08:45 PM
look just because the traditional version has been there has little to do with the implementing of the newer version..

christianity was also just as hostile but it leveled out.....

just because a version has been around for 1000 or so years doens nessecarraly mean its right, take a sociological veiw of it, the hunting and gathering groups way back when human society was in its prenatal stage lasted for way more than a 1000 years, however we would all agree that the next stage, the agrarian society, was much better.....

time fixes all things wrong eventually, so if this islam has been around 1000 years time is just fixing it now

that is a rational, logical approach to Islam.
And in the realm of a rational and logical person, I would agree.

The problem is, however, that Islam places little importance on rational and logic and more on blindly following the Quran. IF a Muslim does not agree with the Quran, then tuff shit. They have to follow it.

In-fact, innovation in Islam is considered a sin.

Muslims take pride in the fact that their religion has been exactly the same for over 1000 years. Religious evolution and Islam are polar opposites.

Altleast they are supposed to be.
Whether or Muslims will end up like Christians and "ease-up" on religion due to secular, democratic tendencies and rationale, logic, and humanity is a different story, as Islam does not place importance on secularism, democracy, logic, rationale, or humanity towards non-Muslims.

thebrownone
March 24th, 2006, 09:00 PM
that is a rational, logical approach to Islam.
And in the realm of a rational and logical person, I would agree.

The problem is, however, that Islam places little importance on rational and logic and more on blindly following the Quran. IF a Muslim does not agree with the Quran, then tuff shit. They have to follow it.

In-fact, innovation in Islam is considered a sin.

Muslims take pride in the fact that their religion has been exactly the same for over 1000 years. Religious evolution and Islam are polar opposites.

Altleast they are supposed to be.
Whether or Muslims will end up like Christians and "ease-up" on religion due to secular, democratic tendencies and rationale, logic, and humanity is a different story, as Islam does not place importance on secularism, democracy, logic, rationale, or humanity towards non-Muslims.


yes but there seems to be now "cooler heads" in the islamic world...well globally speaking...the only problem is a lack of education, possibally due to the strictness of the clerics...i dont thing the quran has much to hand in that department, but what would i know im not muslim,.....but i blame the clerics for twisting what is taught and spewing out lies and propaganda...

is innovation in islam is a sin then islam would have died out years ago...adaptation must occur otherwise good bye, and for poeple who practice different aspects of islam are sinners because logically there is one islam and no other way to interpret it....

and of course people take pride in their religion, otherwise they wouldnt be that religion, and being around 1000 years isnt a bad thing but never changing to fit the worldyou are in is....

i doupt that allah would commend the murdering of someone for thier beliefs, again however i am not muslim, but god, in many major faiths, is loving and caring...and a god like that isnt one to enforce killing just out of difference in beliefs.....

also many religions had sanctions on them, like christianity in the middle ages, judiesm in time of jesus, hinduism before ghandi..etc etc...

wether or not evolution of religion is a sin in islam, it will happen...otherwise the religion is doomed

wiNk wiNk ....
March 24th, 2006, 09:04 PM
These extremist (and those who support them) needs to be killed for putting a man on trial due to converting out their religion. Not trying to take a jab at Islam but isnt it supposed to be a tolerant religion? And we have people complaining here about how West isnt fair.

kidaaa .. get da fuck outta ere ..

jihadthisfilth
March 24th, 2006, 09:04 PM
does not place on logic, rationale,

Yeah... pretty much the same with all organised religions.

It's funny... if now someone came up to you on the streets claiming to be from god.. you'd laugh at the guy... but just because these stories of prophets have been passed down century to century... they have become "fact" and more importance is placed on them...

We cannot prove or disprove that there is a god... just like we cannot prove or disprove that there are more than one gods... or that there is a giant dead money revolving around the sun... but people might laugh at the idea of the giant dead monkey... yet they carry on believing in god just because we have been spoon fed the idea since we were born...

adren@line
March 24th, 2006, 09:05 PM
wether or not evolution of religion is a sin in islam, it will happen...otherwise the religion is doomed


agree 100%.

......But, the idea of religious evolution as a sin is ingrained into the Muslim psyche.

whether or not that trend dies out is a different story.

jihadthisfilth
March 24th, 2006, 09:06 PM
i doupt that allah would commend the murdering of someone for thier beliefs, again however i am not muslim, but god, in many major faiths, is loving and caring...and a god like that isnt one to enforce killing just out of difference in beliefs.....

ever hear the story of moses and the 10 plagues... muslims christians and jews are all required to believe it.

Well god pretty much kills off the first born child of every egyptian family. Not the evil pharoh... not his generals... but innocent little children.

A kind loving god indeed.

thebrownone
March 24th, 2006, 09:17 PM
ever hear the story of moses and the 10 plagues... muslims christians and jews are all required to believe it.

Well god pretty much kills off the first born child of every egyptian family. Not the evil pharoh... not his generals... but innocent little children.

A kind loving god indeed.
i am sorry this is the new version of god......only has been around for 300-400 years or so

adren@line
March 25th, 2006, 05:37 AM
i am sorry this is the new version of god......only has been around for 300-400 years or so


you mean the Semitic (hatefull, emotional, judgmental) version of God?

its been around for a looooong time.
close to 3,000 years.

And yes, sadly people believe in "that" version of God.

thebrownone
March 26th, 2006, 12:16 AM
you mean the Semitic (hatefull, emotional, judgmental) version of God?

its been around for a looooong time.
close to 3,000 years.

And yes, sadly people believe in "that" version of God.
that version isnt much different then what humans were like back then, they were hateful, emotional, judgemental and vengeful.....maybe theres a correlation between what type of god you believe in and how primitive your religion is