What is this world coming to?!?!

[rdHatingBrit]

I had to post this...

One of the holiest Shia shrines was blown up today

The 'dome of the rock' - which is known for its golden dome..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4740010.stm

:no:

I'm kinda in shock, its one of the most recognized mosques in the world; And a monument for Shia Muslims..

This might be enough to start a civil war between Shia's and Sunni's

:no:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_enl_1140622457/img/1.jpg

The dome is totally destroyed:no:

[hindu_heat]

holy shit... muslims can't even get along with each other...

shame to see such a beautiful structure destroyed.

[ilikecheese]

thats so wrong :(

[rdHatingBrit]

holy shit... muslims can't even get along with each other...

shame to see such a beautiful structure destroyed.
Thats the problem with muslims; We're getting beat up all around the world - and so we take it out on each other:no:.

Iraq has declaired a national week of mourning...

[Aurovon]

That's an interesting question.

"What is the world comming to?"

Let's think about this question and analyze it.

What exactly was the world before? If you look at the bigger picture - This earth pretty much had nothing. So basically the world is comming to nothing.

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

:(

i seriously don't even know how to respond to something like this. The whole world has labelled Muslims and Islam as ppl and a religion of war and violence... yet we try our best to convey how islam is a religion of peace... ehsi harkatoh seh toh achay mussalman parishan hogayeh hain...

watever man.... may Allah give hadayat to the misguided!!!

[Sweet_LiL_Hunnie]

that's soo disgusting to see that someone would destroy such a beautiful mosque that is held in sooo many ppl's hearts

[rdHatingBrit]

That's an interesting question.

"What is the world comming to?"

Let's think about this question and analyze it.

What exactly was the world before? If you look at the bigger picture - This earth pretty much had nothing. So basically the world is comming to nothing.
Some say it looks as if the day of judgement is soon upon us...The signs are there...:S

[rdHatingBrit]

:(

i seriously don't even know how to respond to something like this. The whole world has labelled Muslims and Islam as ppl and a religion of war and violence... yet we try our best to convey how islam is a religion of peace... ehsi harkatoh seh toh achay mussalman parishan hogayeh hain...

watever man.... may Allah give hadayat to the misguided!!!
And if Shia's retailiate to this bombing, civil war could break out...And that would not be good at all...

[hindu_heat]

That's an interesting question.

"What is the world comming to?"

Let's think about this question and analyze it.

What exactly was the world before? If you look at the bigger picture - This earth pretty much had nothing. So basically the world is comming to nothing.

thats a good point, i mean if you look back in history its always been love and hate, extreme situations of both. We've been running in circles for centuries.

[SlitWristTheory]

Thats the problem with muslims; We're getting beat up all around the world - and so we take it out on each other:no:.

Iraq has declaired a national week of mourning...
:no: Comes World War III

[CrazyJoker]

shit like that pisses me off

such beauty gone to the shits...

[Y2K]

Yep its a sad day when ppl have to resort to violence just to get a message across, let alone at a place of worship. :tears:

What is this world coming to when ppl of their own kind & creed are at each others throats? Unity seems to be lost...

Thats some gorgous architecture, what a waste! :no:

[Z4K5T4R]

What made them do such a thing :no: Yes, what is the world coming to? Such a beautiful mosque and what a way to take anger out..

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

And if Shia's retailiate to this bombing, civil war could break out...And that would not be good at all...


:(


how disgusting!!!

[rdHatingBrit]

:no: Comes World War III
Except the world would probably stay out of this.

And let muslims kill each other.

:no:

[hindu_heat]

anyone care to enlighten me on the differences between shia and sunni's?

[bigbrother]

holy shit... muslims can't even get along with each other...

shame to see such a beautiful structure destroyed.
yes they can

these are a minority and who knows its muslims who did it

for all we know it could be the cia

[rdHatingBrit]

anyone care to enlighten me on the differences between shia and sunni's?
This could be a huge can of worms..But theres many...Do you want the quick and dirty way..or the actual historical explination?

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

no ones takn responsibility for this though,

what if it wasn't sunni's n a third party desiring conflict to further arise between muslims, taking the heat off of the whole cartoon bit ???

:dunno:

[Z4K5T4R]

no ones takn responsibility for this though,

what if it wasn't sunni's n a third party desiring conflict to further arise between muslims, taking the heat off of the whole cartoon bit ???

:dunno:Why would a Sunni destroy a mosque though? I mean if there is a religious conflict then how does a mosque come into this? Yes, i know it's a shia mosque but end of it all it's a mosque - there must be more to it hena?

[xxxplicit chica]

no ones takn responsibility for this though,

what if it wasn't sunni's n a third party desiring conflict to further arise between muslims, taking the heat off of the whole cartoon bit ???

:dunno:
exactly...

[rdHatingBrit]

no ones takn responsibility for this though,

what if it wasn't sunni's n a third party desiring conflict to further arise between muslims, taking the heat off of the whole cartoon bit ???

:dunno:
I acutally thought that it may be another source; attempting to create a civil war between Muslims in Iraq. But I cant think of anyone who would start something like this.

In any light; the Shia's think the Sunni's did it....:dunno:

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

zak n chica... :werd:

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

I acutally thought that it may be another source; attempting to create a civil war between Muslims in Iraq. But I cant think of anyone who would start something like this.
In any light; the Shia's think the Sunni's did it....:dunno:

:rofl: ohhhhhhh helll i could list a few!!!!! :D

sorry this is no joking matter :neutral:

[rdHatingBrit]

Why would a Sunni destroy a mosque though? I mean if there is a religious conflict then how does a mosque come into this? Yes, i know it's a shia mosque but end of it all it's a mosque - there must be more to it hena?
Its the burial site of the 10th and 11th Imams;

Shia's put alot of emphesis on the family of the Prophet, especially the 12 Imams..

And this is the site where they are burried, and where the 12th Imam is thought to have gone into hidding.

Why they'd want to destroy it? I dont know, but Sunni/Wahabi fundamentalists have blown up mosques in the past.

Even recently; there was a Shia relgious procession in Pakistan (on the most holy of day's for shia's).

And a sunni suicide bomber blew himself up in the middle of the procession, killing many...

So the tension and threat has always been there..

[rdHatingBrit]

:rofl: ohhhhhhh helll i could list a few!!!!! :D

sorry this is no joking matter :neutral:
haha, if you are thinking of americans; why would they want a civil war in IRAQ.

In Iran, i could understand, but why Iraq...?

[hindu_heat]

This could be a huge can of worms..But theres many...Do you want the quick and dirty way..or the actual historical explination?

well do they have any fundamental doctrinall differences in their beliefs? or is it just a historical split over trivial bullshit?

[rdHatingBrit]

well do they have any fundamental doctrinall differences in their beliefs? or is it just a historical split over trivial bullshit?
It's mostly historical. Fundamentally they're the same.

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

haha, if you are thinking of americans; why would they want a civil war in IRAQ.

In Iran, i could understand, but why Iraq...?


n e one wanting to disgrace the religion of Islam, or n e one who wants to lift tensions from the whole cartoon controversy, has motive to do something like this... but agian Allah hu Alam, Allah knows best. Again may Allah guide the misguided... Ameen.

[rdHatingBrit]

n e one wanting to disgrace the religion of Islam, or n e one who wants to lift tensions from the whole cartoon controversy, has motive to do something like this... but agian Allah hu Alam, Allah knows best. Again may Allah guide the misguided... Ameen.
hmm true true;

The next few weeks could be interesting.

I think Judgement day is coming:|, there are many signs to indicate so..

*starts reading namaz*

[hindu_heat]

i kind of hope ww3 comes around, i'd rather go to war then finish college, im bored of studying :neutral:

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

i kind of hope ww3 comes around, i'd rather go to war then finish college, im bored of studying :neutral:


:rofl: u crazy ass!!!

i've got two sons, seriosuly at the rate shits happening in this world right now, i fear for their future.... i dunno

scary n sad when u hear n read about this stuff, but as soon as u get bak to normal life u forget all about it!!!

until sumthing else goes wrong... tsunami... earthquake... cartoon riots... destruction of a mosque?

astaghfurrullah

i need motivation to pray, this shoul dbe it but unfortunately its not.

[rdHatingBrit]

i kind of hope ww3 comes around, i'd rather go to war then finish college, im bored of studying :neutral:
haha I dont think Canada would be involved in much of a war..:P

[rdHatingBrit]

:rofl: u crazy ass!!!

i've got two sons, seriosuly at the rate shits happening in this world right now, i fear for their future.... i dunno

scary n sad when u hear n read about this stuff, but as soon as u get bak to normal life u forget all about it!!!

until sumthing else goes wrong... tsunami... earthquake... cartoon riots... destruction of a mosque?

astaghfurrullah

i need motivation to pray, this shoul dbe it but unfortunately its not.
You have kids?

Whoa auntie.

Yeah i havent made a thread in ages(im the jackass teahatingbrit obviously)

But this news totally killed my day.

[hindu_heat]

haha I dont think Canada would be involved in much of a war..:P

hey hey, we got hockey sticks and moose....its a deadly combo.

[rdHatingBrit]

hey hey, we got hockey sticks and moose....its a deadly combo.
Beavers and maple syrup.

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

You have kids?

Whoa auntie.

Yeah i havent made a thread in ages(im the jackass teahatingbrit obviously)

But this news totally killed my day.


:rofl: naaaa ya dun say!!! :P

i understand what ur saying about it messing ur day.

yeh i have kids n yaar dont call me auntie... sirf 24 ki houn lekin zehniyat 17 year old ki hai.... if u dont know urdu/hindi that meant im only 24 n stopped maturing at 17.

:)

[P4ki4Lyf]

thats so sad :no:

[rdHatingBrit]

:rofl: naaaa ya dun say!!! :P

i understand what ur saying about it messing ur day.

yeh i have kids n yaar dont call me auntie... sirf 24 ki houn lekin zehniyat 17 year old ki hai.... if u dont know urdu/hindi that meant im only 24 n stopped maturing at 17.

:)
haha I call sneha auntie. SO you can be auntie as well:p

Theres so many emails bein thrown around my family; as to what happened.

My uncle was going to go to the middle east to do ziarat(visit some shrines) In a few weeks; but he doesnt know if he can go anymore.

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

hey hey, we got hockey sticks and moose....its a deadly combo.


RCMP

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Feature_Story/2005/07/15/baseball_37.jpg

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

haha I call sneha auntie. SO you can be auntie as well:p

Theres so many emails bein thrown around my family; as to what happened.

My uncle was going to go to the middle east to do ziarat(visit some shrines) In a few weeks; but he doesnt know if he can go anymore.


tell uncle ji to let things cool down before he makes travel plans.

serious, u don't want him to go at a time where there might be civil feuds.

[rdHatingBrit]

Yeah i know; we dont want him to go ..

But I think his plan was to go to syria...there are alot of holy sites there as well...

[AnGel_PyAr]

rd hating brit??
are u shibbs??

[jardras]

It was that damn cia I bet, they created the cartoons, they did 9/11, they blew up mosks, they blow themselves up in israel everyday.

They are a clever bunch.

[rdHatingBrit]

rd hating brit??
are u shibbs??
shhh obviously

[rdHatingBrit]

dutty

that pic is huge

its taking so long to load

[rdHatingBrit]

It was that damn cia I bet, they created the cartoons, they did 9/11, they blew up mosks, they blow themselves up in israel everyday.

They are a clever bunch.
Thats a bit over the top, dont ya think?

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

dutty

that pic is huge

its taking so long to load


sorry its just a picture of canadian mounted police... n if u wait two seconds itll come up :D

sholly

[rdHatingBrit]

sorry its just a picture of canadian mounted police... n if u wait two seconds itll come up :D

sholly
lol k i see it, it took like 5 minutes to load:|

O Canada..

They play Russia in 30 minutes..

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

play wat?

[rdHatingBrit]

play wat?
mens olympic hockey.

quarterfinals.

[jardras]

Thats a bit over the top, dont ya think?

its all true

[rdHatingBrit]

its all true
Truth is something that can be proved by fact.

Can you prove by fact; that the CIA drew those cartoons?

That the CIA caused 9-11.

That the CIA is responsable for blowing up mosques?

Its conspiracy 'theory'. Not Fact.

[Dutty Dutty LuV]

oh!

canada better win!

jardras.. it could very well be true.

[jardras]

Truth is something that can be proved by fact.

Can you prove by fact; that the CIA drew those cartoons?

That the CIA caused 9-11.

That the CIA is responsable for blowing up mosques?

Its conspiracy 'theory'. Not Fact.

i was being sarcastic in my first post

:D

[rdHatingBrit]

i was being sarcastic in my first post

:D
Good.

Otherwise I would have to assume that you are dumb,

Or socially retarded.

[jardras]

Good.

Otherwise I would have to assume that you are dumb,

Or socially retarded.

Your fellow muslims on this forum have said some similar things my friend.

[rdHatingBrit]

Your fellow muslims on this forum have said some similar things my friend.
we are the children of unfostered educational ability:no:

[aftm]

well do they have any fundamental doctrinall differences in their beliefs? or is it just a historical split over trivial bullshit?

Technically speaking, the split between Shias and Sunnis is more political than religious.

Shias place a lot of emphasis on the family of the Prophet. Sunnis on the other hand place equal emphasis on the companions of the Prophet too. To my mind, objectively speaking, there is a basic flaw in the point-of-view of the Shias. In Islam, there is no concept of Salvation (a la Christianity). One will be responsible for one's actions and will have to account for them on the Day of Judgement. One does not get a free pass to do anything one wants because someone else in history suffered for one previously. This is one of the most fundamental concepts in Islam. Basically, it binds everything together. What it implies is: do the right thing and don't do the wrong thing 'coz you're gonna get points for doing the right thing and you're gonna get into trouble for doing the wrong thing. Even if you don't get in trouble in this World, you'll eventually be held accountable for what you've done in this world in the world hereafter.

Now keeping this central concept in mind, I do not see how ancestry plays any role in the siginificance of any person, Islamically speaking. So the whole idea that since someone belongs to the Prophet's family, therefore, they must be superior, goes counter to my understanding of Islam.

There is also a political aspect of the Shia / Sunni divide. If you want, I can give you my understanding of that as well.

However, I need to point out at this point that the antagonism that you see between Shias and Sunnis is political and not religious. Islamically, it has no significance and nowhere in the Quran or the Sunnat (the actions of the Prophet) does one see a mention of Shiaism or Sunnism.

The problem with Muslims of all persuasions today is that they have forgotten what it really means to be Muslim. If they would only read and think, they'd realize that most of them have many misconceptions about Islam. They believe certain things to be a part of Islam, that aren't, and they discount the importance of other things which are truly of fundamental importance.

If you really want to know more, I suggest you download a copy of QuranViewer and one of the translations packs available and read for yourself. Make up your own mind. That's the real Islamic way.

[rdHatingBrit]

Technically speaking, the split between Shias and Sunnis is more political than religious.

Shias place a lot of emphasis on the family of the Prophet. Sunnis on the other hand place equal emphasis on the companions of the Prophet too. To my mind, objectively speaking, there is a basic flaw in the point-of-view of the Shias. In Islam, there is no concept of Salvation (a la Christianity). One will be responsible for one's actions and will have to account for them on the Day of Judgement. One does not get a free pass to do anything one wants because someone else in history suffered for one previously. This is one of the most fundamental concepts in Islam. Basically, it binds everything together. What it implies is: do the right thing and don't do the wrong thing 'coz you're gonna get points for doing the right thing and you're gonna get into trouble for doing the wrong thing. Even if you don't get in trouble in this World, you'll eventually be held accountable for what you've done in this world in the world hereafter.

Now keeping this central concept in mind, I do not see how ancestry plays any role in the siginificance of any person, Islamically speaking. So the whole idea that since someone belongs to the Prophet's family, therefore, they must be superior, goes counter to my understanding of Islam.

There is also a political aspect of the Shia / Sunni divide. If you want, I can give you my understanding of that as well.

However, I need to point out at this point that the antagonism that you see between Shias and Sunnis is political and not religious. Islamically, it has no significance and nowhere in the Quran or the Sunnat (the actions of the Prophet) does one see a mention of Shiaism or Sunnism.

The problem with Muslims of all persuasions today is that they have forgotten what it really means to be Muslim. If they would only read and think, they'd realize that most of them have many misconceptions about Islam. They believe certain things to be a part of Islam, that aren't, and they discount the importance of other things which are truly of fundamental importance.

If you really want to know more, I suggest you download a copy of QuranViewer and one of the translations packs available and read for yourself. Make up your own mind. That's the real Islamic way.
Speaking of misconceptions, you are highly incorrect in a few of your statements and 'beliefs'.

The concept of 'Salvation (a la Christianity)', in regard to the murder of the third Imam; is not one that Shia's believe in.

We believe we are resonsable for our sins and actions; and none may answer for us.

Shia's put such great emphesis on ancestry, for the fact that the Prophet, on numerous occasions made reference to the ahl-ul-bait (his family).

If Sunni's hold the Prophet in such high regard, then why did they ignore his command of 'Mun kunto molla ho, fa haza ali-un molla' For whom-so-ever I am master, Ali is his master...?

Thats why Shia's put so much emphesis on the Prophet and his family.

Did the prophet not also say; 'I leave two great legacies, the Quran and my Ahl-ul-Bait (family of the prophet), these two shall never seperate until they reach me at the foutain of Kauser'.

Theres your justification..

[Space-Cowboy]

hey hey, we got hockey sticks and moose....its a deadly combo.


Don't forget those 5 submarines in West Edmonton Mall.

[desailly]

Technically speaking, the split between Shias and Sunnis is more political than religious.

Shias place a lot of emphasis on the family of the Prophet. Sunnis on the other hand place equal emphasis on the companions of the Prophet too. To my mind, objectively speaking, there is a basic flaw in the point-of-view of the Shias. In Islam, there is no concept of Salvation (a la Christianity). One will be responsible for one's actions and will have to account for them on the Day of Judgement. One does not get a free pass to do anything one wants because someone else in history suffered for one previously. This is one of the most fundamental concepts in Islam. Basically, it binds everything together. What it implies is: do the right thing and don't do the wrong thing 'coz you're gonna get points for doing the right thing and you're gonna get into trouble for doing the wrong thing. Even if you don't get in trouble in this World, you'll eventually be held accountable for what you've done in this world in the world hereafter.

Now keeping this central concept in mind, I do not see how ancestry plays any role in the siginificance of any person, Islamically speaking. So the whole idea that since someone belongs to the Prophet's family, therefore, they must be superior, goes counter to my understanding of Islam.

There is also a political aspect of the Shia / Sunni divide. If you want, I can give you my understanding of that as well.

However, I need to point out at this point that the antagonism that you see between Shias and Sunnis is political and not religious. Islamically, it has no significance and nowhere in the Quran or the Sunnat (the actions of the Prophet) does one see a mention of Shiaism or Sunnism.

The problem with Muslims of all persuasions today is that they have forgotten what it really means to be Muslim. If they would only read and think, they'd realize that most of them have many misconceptions about Islam. They believe certain things to be a part of Islam, that aren't, and they discount the importance of other things which are truly of fundamental importance.

If you really want to know more, I suggest you download a copy of QuranViewer and one of the translations packs available and read for yourself. Make up your own mind. That's the real Islamic way.

Christianity is a lot stricter than Islam. With Islam, muslims can believe that you can commit mass murder and be rewarded with 70 virgins in heaven. On the other hand, with Christianity you cannot distort the truth like that. There is no way on earth that they can take God for a fool like muslims do. They believe, particularly catholics, that God for will not let you into heaven if you have done bad, especially if you have used god's name for evil ends and bullshit other ppl. Basically, you would face eternal damnation in hell after you die. Sinning and hell is a major concept with Christians whereas muslims seem to have more emphasis on heaven; one muslim told me that there is no such thing of eternal damnation. God will eventually let you back into heaven. To me this says that no matter how evil you are you will always go to heaven. What a cop out.

On another note, I saw this programme that said that Shia are like catholics and Sunnis like protestants. However this is superficial, the Islam is in big trouble because of its practioners who are creating chaos in their own backyard and all over the world.

[rdHatingBrit]

I think the guy was refering to Protestants; about the Salvation thing.

As per alot of your information you are highly un-informed.

I, personally, have never heard about being 'rewarded with 70 virgins in heaven'. Mass murder is against the principles of Islam.

Commiting murder, suicide etc, is a one way ticket to hell. There is eternal damnation, you wont be 'let back into heaven'

ONe cannot play God a fool.

My suggestion to you is that you stop listening to uninformed, ignorant people, and use some common sense.

[aftm]

Speaking of misconceptions, you are highly incorrect in a few of your statements and 'beliefs'.

<stuff I agree with deleted for brevity>

Shia's put such great emphesis on ancestry, for the fact that the Prophet, on numerous occasions made reference to the ahl-ul-bait (his family).

If Sunni's hold the Prophet in such high regard, then why did they ignore his command of 'Mun kunto molla ho, fa haza ali-un molla' For whom-so-ever I am master, Ali is his master...?

Thats why Shia's put so much emphesis on the Prophet and his family.

Did the prophet not also say; 'I leave two great legacies, the Quran and my Ahl-ul-Bait (family of the prophet), these two shall never seperate until they reach me at the foutain of Kauser'.

Theres your justification..

I have heard many Shias quote that particular Hadith, but I have never gotten a valid reference for it. In absence of such a reference, which should include contextual information, I will reserve my opinion. I mention contextual information because one requires that to understand any text. One line in itself may or may not be correctly understandable, e.g.,

The first part of Surat Al-Anfaal, Verse 65 says that "O you prophet, you shall exhort the believers to fight."

Now taken in itself, that must sound awful to the casual reader, but when taken in the context of the entire surat, it makes sense. I can come up with numerous other, similar examples where context is vital. Therefore, I cannot stress this enough, one needs contextual information to understand the correct meaning of anything and Quran or Hadith is no different.

The history of Islam is littered with examples where people from the families of prophets have incurred azaab-e-Ilahi whereas people from families of sinners have received miraculous blessings.

Therefore, respectfully, I must disagree with your point of view.

Lakum deenukum wal-yadeen.
"To you is your religion, and to me is my religion." Or more generally speaking, you have your point of view and I have mine. Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that, shall we?

[desailly]

I think the guy was refering to Protestants; about the Salvation thing.

As per alot of your information you are highly un-informed.

I, personally, have never heard about being 'rewarded with 70 virgins in heaven'. Mass murder is against the principles of Islam.

The 9/11 hijackers thought they would get 70 virgins in heaven. Maybe this is a Saudi thing. The bottom line is that it happened and that is what they believed.



Commiting murder, suicide etc, is a one way ticket to hell. There is eternal damnation, you wont be 'let back into heaven'

That's more or less the catholic principle. If muslims really believed that too then there wouldn't be as much terrorism as there is now.


ONe cannot play God a fool.

Well, this is basically what the terrorists do when they say "Allah Akbar" before they commit their sins. They trying to play a fool out of God and non-muslims. If non-muslims can see that then surely God can. That's why christians believe God will punish those that take his name in vain. Perhaps the terrorists think what they are doing is really the right thing. In both cases, there is something badly wrong.


My suggestion to you is that you stop listening to uninformed, ignorant people, and use some common sense.

Common sense has nothing to do with it. I'm just stating what one muslim told me. Probably he was ignorant, I dunno, I'm just finding out what muslims are about. If I asked an "incognito" muslim then they would be embarassed or confused. The bottom line is that there are a lot of question marks over muslims but there are no answers just confusion.

BTW, what don't you like about RD?

[rdHatingBrit]

I'll reply to both of you after this hockey game...


ps: im rdhatingbrit, aka teahatingbrit. im the jackass noone around here likes.

[chak_de_phate]

holy shit... muslims can't even get along with each other...

shame to see such a beautiful structure destroyed.
:werd:

[aftm]

The 9/11 hijackers thought they would get 70 virgins in heaven. Maybe this is a Saudi thing. The bottom line is that it happened and that is what they believed. [stuff deleted for brevity]

The problem with Muslims is that they have stopped using their intellect and rely too much on "clergy". That is why, when a wrong practice or idea become part of the popular tradition, it becomes canon. People start mistaking that for actual Islam, whereas, if they only took the time to read for themselves, they'd realize that the practice was probably actually against all that Islam considered important.

This is not really an issue for non-Muslims. Ultimately, this is an issue for Muslims to deal with, individually and collectively. As far as non-Muslims are concerned, ideally they should not seek information from Muslims (or Muslim experts, in the case of news companies), but reference actual sources. Nothing's easier than reading a book and using one's own head and usually, one gets a cleaner picture too.

[desailly]

This is not really an issue for non-Muslims. Ultimately, this is an issue for Muslims to deal with, individually and collectively. As far as non-Muslims are concerned, ideally they should not seek information from Muslims (or Muslim experts, in the case of news companies), but reference actual sources. Nothing's easier than reading a book and using one's own head and usually, one gets a cleaner picture too.

That sounds like an excuse. The people who practice their religion are representatives of their religion. To say that non-muslims should not seek information from muslims, makes muslims even more conspicuous, like they have something to hide. In any case, ppl may not be seeking information, they might just want to know how muslims think, make decisions. As long as muslims commit terror, then they automatically make it non-muslims business, unless muslims just kill their own. However that's not the case, they kill everyone.

Reading books doesn't improve the situation either. Read about Jesus from the bible and Mohammed from the Koran. You will see some major differences. You might get some answers as to what it means to be human.

[nabilah18]

war brings the worst in people.

Samara is a predominately Sunni city.. and the Shia shrine which is respected by Sunnis as well has been in this city for more than a millenia... so you can't say Sunnis and Shias have always been fighting because if that were to be the case this shrine would never have been built in the first place.. its not about Islam. it is about the current Iraqi situation

[MolviCorleone]

muslims really blew it up
&
george bush is a good man

[MolviCorleone]

When people see a muslim kill a non muslim or another muslim its made into one of those 'omfg' situation as if like we are all that is evil in this world.

go to www.ogrish.com to see what evil really is

[nabilah18]

Christianity is a lot stricter than Islam. With Islam, muslims can believe that you can commit mass murder and be rewarded with 70 virgins in heaven.

On the other hand, with Christianity you cannot distort the truth like that. There is no way on earth that they can take God for a fool like muslims do. They believe, particularly catholics, that God for will not let you into heaven if you have done bad, especially if you have used god's name for evil ends and bullshit other ppl. Basically, you would face eternal damnation in hell after you die. Sinning and hell is a major concept with Christians whereas muslims seem to have more emphasis on heaven; one muslim told me that there is no such thing of eternal damnation. God will eventually let you back into heaven. To me this says that no matter how evil you are you will always go to heaven. What a cop out.

On another note, I saw this programme that said that Shia are like catholics and Sunnis like protestants. However this is superficial, the Islam is in big trouble because of its practioners who are creating chaos in their own backyard and all over the world.



Where does Islam say that..... if you don't understand the religion then you shouldnt make retarded statements like that.. youre so stupid..

Catholicism believes in confession...it believes that a child is born into sin (for a crime he/she didnt commit)... it believes that Jesus saved man from sin and that the saved are rewarded with heaven

"Catholics believe that baptism is necessary for the cleansing of the taint of original sin, and for that reason infant baptism is a common practice."

"In Catholic teaching, baptism plays an essential role in salvation. The Church teaches that "baptism is necessary for salvation" (Catechism, 1257) and entry into heaven; and therefore, a person who knowledgeably, willfully and unrepentedy rejects baptism has no hope of salvation."


... it believes that Eve decieved Adam and that the pains of childbirth and the menstrual cycle are all punishments for her.

================================================


In Islam, it is up to the Almighty God to decide whether one goes to heaven or hell and not up to the concoctions of man (i.e. Catholic Church) ...

Sunnis and Shias are not like Protestants and Catholics because both Sunnis and Shias believe in one unique God... not a triad

[chicano_desi]

that mosque had beauful design.
it just a shame.
now denmark should give money to fix the mosque and get the muslims all over the world off there back.

[MolviCorleone]

The 9/11 hijackers thought they would get 70 virgins in heaven. Maybe this is a Saudi thing. The bottom line is that it happened and that is what they believed.

How do you know?

Did you talk to any of them prior to 9/11

Plus you dont know who was behind 9/11, many people are beginning to realise that but some are still set in thier ignorant ways. Typical media puppet.

[rdHatingBrit]

I have heard many Shias quote that particular Hadith, but I have never gotten a valid reference for it. In absence of such a reference, which should include contextual information, I will reserve my opinion. I mention contextual information because one requires that to understand any text. One line in itself may or may not be correctly understandable, e.g.,

The first part of Surat Al-Anfaal, Verse 65 says that "O you prophet, you shall exhort the believers to fight."

Now taken in itself, that must sound awful to the casual reader, but when taken in the context of the entire surat, it makes sense. I can come up with numerous other, similar examples where context is vital. Therefore, I cannot stress this enough, one needs contextual information to understand the correct meaning of anything and Quran or Hadith is no different.

The history of Islam is littered with examples where people from the families of prophets have incurred azaab-e-Ilahi whereas people from families of sinners have received miraculous blessings.

Therefore, respectfully, I must disagree with your point of view.

Lakum deenukum wal-yadeen.
"To you is your religion, and to me is my religion." Or more generally speaking, you have your point of view and I have mine. Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that, shall we?

It's a shame that you have never found a 'valid reference' for that particular hadith, Let me help you out. Its from Hadith-e-Ghadir, the speach that the Prophet gave at a place called Ghadir-e-Khum on his return from Mecca.

In the Quran it also discuesses the event of Ghadir-e-Khum:

“O thou esteemed Messenger, impart the guidance that has been revealed unto thee”,
“For if thou doeth it not, thou has not imparted His Message at all”;
“God will protect thee from the evil designs of men”. (Ch. 5 ‘verse 67)

(This is the archangel Gabriel speaking to the Prophet at Ghadir).

Then the Prophet, after summoning all his people; gave one of his most famous speaches:

(heres part of it)

“Listen to me care*fully; I have been commanded to tell you that I will soon be taken away from your midst, but I leave unto you my Legacy of two grand precepts, each of which surpasses the other in its grandeur-God’s Holy Book (The Quran) and my Ahl-ul-Bait (my irrevocable Progeny, consisting of Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain). Never shall they separate from one another until they reach me in Heaven at the Fountain of Kausar, and so long as you will adhere unto both my legacies, you will never be led astray after me. Therefore, O ye folk, it is my last Will and Testament unto you that you should always remain faithful to the Holy Quran and my Ahl-ul-Bait as true Muslims until death.”

By these portentous words all those who loved their teacher and benefactor were moved to tears.

And he continued, “Do not lag too far behind them and do not walk ahead of them, for in either event you will go astray. But follow them and walk in their footsteps and they will guide you along the Straight Path.”

Then he asked, “Who do you think is more worthy of obedience than your souls?”

And they answered, “God and His messenger know best.”

And he continued, “Lo! God is my Master, and am I not worthy of obedience from you?”

And they all said, “Yea, verily Yea.”

Then the Prophet bent down and lifted up Ali in his hands, showing him to the crowds on all sides of the pulpit, aid proclaimed,

“Mun Kunto Maulaho fe haaza Ali-yun Maulah”

“Of whomsoever I am the Master (Mauls), this Ali is his Master (Mania)”. So saying the Prophet raised up his hands heavenwards and prayed, “O our God, love those who will love Ali, despise those who will despise him; support those who will support him; sad reject those who will reject him. 3”

Announcing this thrice, he got down from the raised platform, and seated Ali in a tent, where the people did him homage. Omar bin Al-Khatab was the first to cong*ratulate Ali and to acknowledge him ‘Guardian of all Believers’ 4

Saying “Bakhin bakhin laka ibne Abi Talih Asbahta Maul ayee
Wa Maula kulla Momineen wa Mominaatin.”

“Greetings be to thee O son of Abu Talib!

Thou hast dawned as my Leader and the Leader of all faithful men and women.”

AFTER THIS EVENT, Gibrael once again came to the prophet, and this sura is in the Quran:

“This day have I perfected unto you your religion and completed upon you My Blessings, and I am well-pleased with Islam as your religion.” (Ch. 5, Verse 3).

THAT is the Shia point of view my friend.

[rdHatingBrit]

The 9/11 hijackers thought they would get 70 virgins in heaven. Maybe this is a Saudi thing. The bottom line is that it happened and that is what they believed.

And I think if I piss on my neighbours lawn we'll become the best of friends.
ignorance of the few, does not stand for the intellegence of the masses.



Well, this is basically what the terrorists do when they say "Allah Akbar" before they commit their sins. They trying to play a fool out of God and non-muslims. If non-muslims can see that then surely God can. That's why christians believe God will punish those that take his name in vain. Perhaps the terrorists think what they are doing is really the right thing. In both cases, there is something badly wrong.


You make God out to be quite an idiot here. You dont think he knows what is going on? Terrorists think they're doing the right thing, but terrorists are a small percentage of muslims. You are taking a media perspective and assuming that terrorists speak for all muslims.


I am sorry, but you are making absolutely retarded statements. The stuff you are saying is based on information you collected from, God knows where.

Also you are the child of media propaganda.

Beliving that all muslims are terrorists; as portrayed by CNN.

Buddy, wake up. Use you're head. Would any logical, educated muslim insight such acts of violence?

Do you see me blowing up you're house because I think i'll get 70 virgins in heaven?

Please.

[rdHatingBrit]

war brings the worst in people.

Samara is a predominately Sunni city.. and the Shia shrine which is respected by Sunnis as well has been in this city for more than a millenia... so you can't say Sunnis and Shias have always been fighting because if that were to be the case this shrine would never have been built in the first place.. its not about Islam. it is about the current Iraqi situation
I'm not talking about Sunnis/Shia's in that area.

Im talking about throughout history, overtime, in all parts of the world.

[nabilah18]

IRAN: SUPREME LEADER BLAMES U.S. AND ISRAEL FOR IRAQ MOSQUE ATTACK



Tehran, 22 Feb. (AKI) - Iran's Supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has announced a week of mourning following the attack Wednesday morning on one of the holiest Shiite shrines at Samarra in Iraq, and accused the Americans and Israelis of responsibility. In a statement, the Iranian leader says those behind the attack were "the occupation forces and Zionism, which seeing their plans for Iraq dissolve, have planned this atrocity to sew hate between Muslims and fuel divisions between Sunnis and Shiites". In Iran, where 90 per cent of the population is Shiite, the attack against the shrine has caused disgust and consternation.

Ayatollah Khamenei went on to appeal to Shiites to "not fall into the enemy trap by attacking mosques and sacred places of [their] Sunni brothers".

"The enemy", Khamenei concludes "wants nothing more than weakening the Islamic front, right as Muslims with a single voice have been protesting against the continual provocations of their enemies", an apparent reference to protests around the Muslim world at Danish cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed.

"The attack this morning in Samarra had one aim, to divide Muslims" said the Iranian foreign ministry spokesman, Hamid Reza Asefi. “This attack shows on one hand that the aim is to cause divisions within the ummah (global Muslim community) trying to turn Shiites against their Sunni brothers. "On the other it is a clear sign that the occupying armies are incapable of guaranteeing the security of Iraq or fighting terrorism" Asefi added.

====================
coming from the supreme religious leader of the World's biggest Shia nation.. doesnt sound like a Sunni-Shia war.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

IRAN: SUPREME LEADER BLAMES U.S. AND ISRAEL FOR IRAQ MOSQUE ATTACK



Tehran, 22 Feb. (AKI) - Iran's Supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has announced a week of mourning following the attack Wednesday morning on one of the holiest Shiite shrines at Samarra in Iraq, and accused the Americans and Israelis of responsibility. In a statement, the Iranian leader says those behind the attack were "the occupation forces and Zionism, which seeing their plans for Iraq dissolve, have planned this atrocity to sew hate between Muslims and fuel divisions between Sunnis and Shiites". In Iran, where 90 per cent of the population is Shiite, the attack against the shrine has caused disgust and consternation.

Ayatollah Khamenei went on to appeal to Shiites to "not fall into the enemy trap by attacking mosques and sacred places of [their] Sunni brothers".

"The enemy", Khamenei concludes "wants nothing more than weakening the Islamic front, right as Muslims with a single voice have been protesting against the continual provocations of their enemies", an apparent reference to protests around the Muslim world at Danish cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed.

"The attack this morning in Samarra had one aim, to divide Muslims" said the Iranian foreign ministry spokesman, Hamid Reza Asefi. “This attack shows on one hand that the aim is to cause divisions within the ummah (global Muslim community) trying to turn Shiites against their Sunni brothers. "On the other it is a clear sign that the occupying armies are incapable of guaranteeing the security of Iraq or fighting terrorism" Asefi added.

====================
coming from the supreme religious leader of the World's biggest Shia nation.. doesnt sound like a Sunni-Shia war.

a lot of Sunnis believe the Shi'a are doing literally all of this on both sides, including the cartoon stuff just to instigate World War III :rofl:

thank God for that statement though.

[reaz]

ahaha.. the Ayatollah did the right thing.. the last thing muslims need is to fight between themselves. it just adds to the chaos..

[BrownG]

wow

[syrus]

can aybdy think of wht moslems like..
they hate..
christians,hindus,women,peace,prosperity,mosques,t emples,towers...and ofcourse themselves................

[KhanNoonienSingh]

can aybdy think of wht moslems like..
they hate..
christians,hindus,women,peace,prosperity,mosques,t emples,towers...and ofcourse themselves................

we also hate your face.

[Gimmeck]

Damn

[Space-Cowboy]

can aybdy think of wht moslems like..
they hate..
christians,hindus,women,peace,prosperity,mosques,t emples,towers...and ofcourse themselves................


Congrats, every Muslim on this site is gonna rip you a new one now...

[methodman535]

And if Shia's retailiate to this bombing, civil war could break out...And that would not be good at all...

Civil war is already out. Manufactured by the US.

[2CoNfUsEd]

That's an interesting question.

"What is the world comming to?"

Let's think about this question and analyze it.

What exactly was the world before? If you look at the bigger picture - This earth pretty much had nothing. So basically the world is comming to nothing.

roffl...i love the way u think

[Space-Cowboy]

Civil war is already out. Manufactured by the US.


For the purpose of trading weapons for oil/money to both sides.

[Space-Cowboy]

roffl...i love the way u think


Your sig is fucked :|

[methodman535]

It was that damn cia I bet, they created the cartoons, they did 9/11, they blew up mosks, they blow themselves up in israel everyday.

They are a clever bunch.

Always possible with the CIA. MI6 was blowing up shia targets in Iraq, dressed up as sunnis, just a couple of months ago.

[rdHatingBrit]

can aybdy think of wht moslems like..
they hate..
christians,hindus,women,peace,prosperity,mosques,t emples,towers...and ofcourse themselves................
Do you know the actual fundamental understanding of Islam?

Peace.

Its in the Quran, its everywhere. Peace.

Before Prophet Mohammad, men used to bury daughters alive, because they were deamed worthless. He stopped that.

The argument that muslims hate christians, hindu's etc. Is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

You are ignorant, and stupid.

Also: you cannot spell a single word, to save your life. But thanks for trying.

[rdHatingBrit]

Always possible with the CIA. MI6 was blowing up shia targets in Iraq, dressed up as sunnis, just a couple of months ago.
Proof?

[Space-Cowboy]

Proof?

There's no real hard proof... but it makes sense for the U.S. for the civil war to continue..... war is good for business.

[rdHatingBrit]

There's no real hard proof... but it makes sense for the U.S. for the civil war to continue..... war is good for business.
How?

Civil war starts - USA has to stay in Iraq in order to promote peace.

Using up resources and cash.

They already have the oil. They have no need to stick around, they would rather get out of there.

[DaSuckaPunch]

can aybdy think of wht moslems like..
they hate..
christians,hindus,women,peace,prosperity,mosques,t emples,towers...and ofcourse themselves................

Yeh we hate anyone and everything :rolleyes:

learn how to type prick...

[Ur Dream Boy]

man dis fokin bullshit is never gonna end. :mad:

[methodman535]

For the purpose of trading weapons for oil/money to both sides.

Yeah...Iran-Iraq war: So much damage to the two Ira economies meant that their economic growth and their own oil consumption went nowhere, while they got deep into hundreds of billions in debt as well as burned off all their petrodollars back in the direction of the west(buying overpriced arms). Pretty slick and elaborate in a sickening sort of way.

[c0mpl3xl0g1k]

the world i sfull of jeolosy even brothers are jealous of brothers these days

[Octane]

can aybdy think of wht moslems like..
they hate..
christians,hindus,women,peace,prosperity,mosques,t emples,towers...and ofcourse themselves................

Oh and to add to your little list the most important thing that Muslims dont like is: impotent intellecutally deficient imps just like you. Go back to playing with your dolls kid.

[2CoNfUsEd]

Your sig is fucked :|

i know, its really fucked up. atleast im glad someone finally noticed my sig.. :clap:

[Space-Cowboy]

How?

Civil war starts - USA has to stay in Iraq in order to promote peace.

Using up resources and cash.

They already have the oil. They have no need to stick around, they would rather get out of there.


It's an investment, the spoils of war if you will. And no they don't already have ALL the oil. And what they DO have is under constant immediate threat.

[Sir Smoke-A-Lot]

I had to post this...

One of the holiest Shia shrines was blown up today

The 'dome of the rock' - which is known for its golden dome..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4740010.stm

:no:

I'm kinda in shock, its one of the most recognized mosques in the world; And a monument for Shia Muslims..

This might be enough to start a civil war between Shia's and Sunni's

:no:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_enl_1140622457/img/1.jpg

The dome is totally destroyed:no:

wow that is not good...not good at all :mad: :(

[Space-Cowboy]

Yeah...Iran-Iraq war: So much damage to the two Ira economies meant that their economic growth and their own oil consumption went nowhere, while they got deep into hundreds of billions in debt as well as burned off all their petrodollars back in the direction of the west(buying overpriced arms). Pretty slick and elaborate in a sickening sort of way.

Yea that's all true.... except......... it's not all that slick or elaborate at all. I'm just some kid in my early 20s that figured this shit out. The political analysts have figured this long since. And in all honesty it's not so much the U.S. government, as much as it is the Corporations [which btw FUND the U.S. government].

Corporations run the world: using the U.S. armed forces for 'hire' of sorts, but more so with the one thing no physical force can ever destroy: The Idea --- the idea of the 'westernization' of the world. And everyone has bought right into it.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic, the point I'm trying to make here is that the turmoil in the middle-east==> Syriana. Is not as a result of the American agenda... but of Corporate agenda.

And at this point, there's nothing the world can really do to stop it. :|

[rdHatingBrit]

It's an investment, the spoils of war if you will. And no they don't already have ALL the oil. And what they DO have is under constant immediate threat.
What spoils of war?

They've already destroyed iraq.

They have the contract to rebuild.

It makes no sense for the americans to be behind this.

Rationality points to other reasons.

[Space-Cowboy]

wow that is not good...not good at all :mad: :(


You sound like Bob from Reboot....









:p

[Space-Cowboy]

What spoils of war?

They've already destroyed iraq.

They have the contract to rebuild.

It makes no sense for the americans to be behind this.

Rationality points to other reasons.


The most powerful and self serving nation in the world don't have to honour any contract if they don't have to. The armed forces are there to maintain a 'controlled chaos'. U.S. WANTS Shias and Sunnis to fight. The more they fight, the more arms they buy from the U.S. government..... and from freelance "Lords of War" that, indirectly, work on behalf of the U.S. government. [Yes Lord of War is an awesome movie, and no that's not what I'm pulling my sources from].

[rdHatingBrit]

The most powerful and self serving nation in the world don't have to honour any contract if they don't have to. The armed forces are there to maintain a 'controlled chaos'. U.S. WANTS Shias and Sunnis to fight. The more they fight, the more arms they buy from the U.S. government..... and from freelance "Lords of War" that, indirectly, work on behalf of the U.S. government. [Yes Lord of War is an awesome movie, and no that's not what I'm pulling my sources from].

If weapons are used between the two sides; the weapons have already been purchased, I highly doubt that they’ll go on a rampage spending spree. Many guns they already have stock pilled. Iraqi Shia’s will get help from Iran, Sunni’s will turn to the Saudi’s…
But it would be more of a guerilla type war fare, lots and lots of bombs. The US cant help them there.

No No, there is no conclusive evidence that the United States has any legitimate reason for causing civil strife in the region; it will do them more harm then good. Sunni’s blew up that mosque; any other reason is illogical and irrational.

BTW: Sunni’s were arrested in account the attack.

[Space-Cowboy]

If weapons are used between the two sides; the weapons have already been purchased, I highly doubt that they’ll go on a rampage spending spree. Many guns they already have stock pilled. Iraqi Shia’s will get help from Iran, Sunni’s will turn to the Saudi’s…
But it would be more of a guerilla type war fare, lots and lots of bombs. The US cant help them there.

No No, there is no conclusive evidence that the United States has any legitimate reason for causing civil strife in the region; it will do them more harm then good. Sunni’s blew up that mosque; any other reason is illogical and irrational.

BTW: Sunni’s were arrested in account the attack.


Sooner or later, the stockpiled ammo WILL deplete.... hell what am I saying it depletes on a regular basis. And the gotta get bombs and bomb 'parts' from somewhere don't they?

And while there is no 'conclusive' evidence, it DOES make logical sense. U.S. WANTS strife between Shia/Sunni ; and between Iraq/Iran. More war = more purchasing of ammo.

[rdHatingBrit]

Sooner or later, the stockpiled ammo WILL deplete.... hell what am I saying it depletes on a regular basis. And the gotta get bombs and bomb 'parts' from somewhere don't they?

And while there is no 'conclusive' evidence, it DOES make logical sense. U.S. WANTS strife between Shia/Sunni ; and between Iraq/Iran. More war = more purchasing of ammo.
There will be no strife between Iraq and Iran now. Both are Shia majorities.

You have failed to conclusivly show me, however, that the United States will propser from having strife between Shia's and Sunnis.

You know why? Toss this into the equation

Iran = Shia country. Iraq= Shia country.

Iran supports Shia's in Iraq.

Iran = nuclear power.

Uh.O.

[out1aw]

I had to post this...

One of the holiest Shia shrines was blown up today

The 'dome of the rock' - which is known for its golden dome..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4740010.stm

:no:

I'm kinda in shock, its one of the most recognized mosques in the world; And a monument for Shia Muslims..

This might be enough to start a civil war between Shia's and Sunni's

:no:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_enl_1140622457/img/1.jpg

The dome is totally destroyed:no:


stupid idiots destroying masjids dont matter if its shiates or suni or watever, its still a masjid . these peopel gona go hell.

and u lot shoudl stop calling masjids mosque, it comes from the word mosquito, and degrades the masjid and muslims and says they are dirty insects gathering to pray.
another kufr way of making us look stupid .

just liek muslims who celebrate april fools day, without knowning where it actualy comes from.

[Space-Cowboy]

There will be no strife between Iraq and Iran now. Both are Shia majorities.

You have failed to conclusivly show me, however, that the United States will propser from having strife between Shia's and Sunnis.

You know why? Toss this into the equation

Iran = Shia country. Iraq= Shia country.

Iran supports Shia's in Iraq.

Iran = nuclear power.

Uh.O.


Why do you think U.S. is on Iran's case now then? because of the equality of both sides. You haven't proven that U.S. DOESN'T gain from a Shia/Sunni conflict?



Why do you support U.S.'s so called 'good intentions' ? They have NONE.

[rdHatingBrit]

stupid idiots destroying masjids dont matter if its shiates or suni or watever, its still a masjid . these peopel gona go hell.

and u lot shoudl stop calling masjids mosque, it comes from the word mosquito, and degrades the masjid and muslims and says they are dirty insects gathering to pray.
another kufr way of making us look stupid .

just liek muslims who celebrate april fools day, without knowning where it actualy comes from.
Don't be so ignorant.

Mosque does not come from the world misquito, It is another rumour spread by fundamentalists.

Just like saying some cookies or marshamellows are haram because they have pig fat.

Absoute ignorance.

[Space-Cowboy]

stupid idiots destroying masjids dont matter if its shiates or suni or watever, its still a masjid . these peopel gona go hell.

and u lot shoudl stop calling masjids mosque, it comes from the word mosquito, and degrades the masjid and muslims and says they are dirty insects gathering to pray.
another kufr way of making us look stupid .

just liek muslims who celebrate april fools day, without knowning where it actualy comes from.


Never knew Mosque was a derogatory term... :sarb:

[rdHatingBrit]

Why do you think U.S. is on Iran's case now then? because of the equality of both sides. You haven't proven that U.S. DOESN'T gain from a Shia/Sunni conflict?



Why do you support U.S.'s so called 'good intentions' ? They have NONE.
I do not support the USA in any way shape or form. I am merely pointing out that you're argument is flawed and logicless.


It is not my duty to show that the Americans have nothing to gain from such an event; for a negative repsonse is not one that can be proved.

You are telling me the USA has something to gain.

Im telling you it is physically impossible, the negatives of the situation outweigh the positives.

Not even Bush is that stupid.

[Space-Cowboy]

Not even Bush is that stupid.


Wanna bet?





Anyway,

Cheney is a major shareholder of a company Haliburton, which in turn has investments in munitions. They STAND to gain from this war. There have been routine accounts of under the table purchases of arms which U.S. claims are for the "domestic protection of Iraqi civilians"..... which we know damn well where these weapons are going into.

U.S. is not so innocent. And Bush IS gullible.... you think HE'S the one truly running the forces? Hell no, he gets TREMENDOUS pressure from corporate stakeholders.


The $$ U.S. rakes in from weapons shipments DO NOT outweigh costs to the soldiers BUT, the $$ [Revenue] goes towards the corporations, who BEAR NO LIABLILITY in terms of the costs of the war.

And so, while Bush may not have to care as this is his last term. Cheney still stands to gain, he still wants to keep the war going, as does many other stakeholders.

[Indian_Eyess]

Wanna bet?





Anyway,

Cheney is a major shareholder of a company Haliburton, which in turn has investments in munitions. They STAND to gain from this war. There have been routine accounts of under the table purchases of arms which U.S. claims are for the "domestic protection of Iraqi civilians"..... which we know damn well where these weapons are going into.

U.S. is not so innocent. And Bush IS gullible.... you think HE'S the one truly running the forces? Hell no, he gets TREMENDOUS pressure from corporate stakeholders.
plus, our commander in chief tends to profit from such deals, so he's actually in it for his own good as well as the well being of his buddies

[rdHatingBrit]

Wanna bet?





Anyway,

Cheney is a major shareholder of a company Haliburton, which in turn has investments in munitions. They STAND to gain from this war. There have been routine accounts of under the table purchases of arms which U.S. claims are for the "domestic protection of Iraqi civilians"..... which we know damn well where these weapons are going into.

U.S. is not so innocent. And Bush IS gullible.... you think HE'S the one truly running the forces? Hell no, he gets TREMENDOUS pressure from corporate stakeholders.
Michael Moore plays on the masses; he is stirring up controversy.

Do you think; that if half the stuff Michael Moore said in his movies/hinted at; were true, or in the right context...an investigation would've been called?

Quit using him as a source.

Again; keep troops in Iraq with the type of equpitment/people they have out there - Is probably more costly then the profit from purchasing weapons.

How much is this Iraq war putting the USA in debt?

Exactly.

[nyczpakiprince]

HOLY FUCKIN SHIT

yeah i saw dat on the newz

I HATE THISSSSSSSSS

THATZ Y WE"RE CONSIDERED WEAK IN THE WORLD TODAY

CUZ WE GOT NO UNITY

WE"RE FIGHTIN JEWZ, WE"RE FIGHTIN AMERICA, FUCKIN, WE"RE FIGHTIN OURSELVEZ NOW TOO?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eekwtf:

this is the biggest bullshit

all ima do now iz pray that we came togetha and unite

[Space-Cowboy]

Michael Moore plays on the masses; he is stirring up controversy.

Do you think; that if half the stuff Michael Moore said in his movies/hinted at; were true, or in the right context...an investigation would've been called?

Quit using him as a source.

Again; keep troops in Iraq with the type of equpitment/people they have out there - Is probably more costly then the profit from purchasing weapons.

How much is this Iraq war putting the USA in debt?

Exactly.


I DON'T USE HIM AS A SOURCE, NEVER HAVE I THINK HE'S A DICK TOO!!

but the fact of the matter is, U.S. isn't out there fighting their own battle.... it's not THEIR Agenda, it's the Corporate Agenda..... the Debt borne by U.S. is irrelavant.

[Space-Cowboy]

plus, our commander in chief tends to profit from such deals, so he's actually in it for his own good as well as the well being of his buddies


Absolutely, this has little to do with nations as much as it does with corporations.

[rdHatingBrit]

I DON'T USE HIM AS A SOURCE, NEVER HAVE I THINK HE'S A DICK TOO!!

but the fact of the matter is, U.S. isn't out there fighting their own battle.... it's not THEIR Agenda, it's the Corporate Agenda..... the Debt borne by U.S. is irrelavant.
He said the exact same thing as you did.


OK, I know you dont want to believe me, but think about this rationally.

Would the USA rack up billions of dollars in debt, just so a private company can make a few bucks?

Is that it any way logical?

[rdHatingBrit]

HOLY FUCKIN SHIT

yeah i saw dat on the newz

I HATE THISSSSSSSSS

THATZ Y WE"RE CONSIDERED WEAK IN THE WORLD TODAY

CUZ WE GOT NO UNITY

WE"RE FIGHTIN JEWZ, WE"RE FIGHTIN AMERICA, FUCKIN, WE"RE FIGHTIN OURSELVEZ NOW TOO?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eekwtf:

this is the biggest bullshit

all ima do now iz pray that we came togetha and unite
And apperently we are fighting a war against illiteracy.

[phatty]

:neutral: chup.

[MolviCorleone]

And apperently we are fighting a war against illiteracy.
he belongs in the UK section.

[Space-Cowboy]

He said the exact same thing as you did.


OK, I know you dont want to believe me, but think about this rationally.

Would the USA rack up billions of dollars in debt, just so a private company can make a few bucks?

Is that it any way logical?


It's ABSOLUTELY not logical..... but have you known them to run on logic as of recent years?

Fuck we're talking about the same country whose government will publicly condemn torture of any kind yet supports the use of information gained from torture!

[Enammmmm]

And apperently we are fighting a war against illiteracy.


Something about u doesnt clear up....Im almost sure ur another member from here with a diff Id trying to create shit between sunni's n shi'tes...its ppl like u that give MUSLIMS a bad name anyway.

[rdHatingBrit]

Something about u doesnt clear up....Im almost sure ur another member from here with a diff Id trying to create shit between sunni's n shi'tes...its ppl like u that give MUSLIMS a bad name anyway.
:rofl:

enam

think yahoo chat

and u'lll know who i am;)

and i aint starting shit. it was a news event, what do you want me to do? Not read headlines?

[Space-Cowboy]

Something about u doesnt clear up....Im almost sure ur another member from here with a diff Id trying to create shit between sunni's n shi'tes...its ppl like u that give MUSLIMS a bad name anyway.


Well forget him, and read my posts, I'm here trying to prove that U.S. corporations DO have something to gain from the MidEast turmoil, for their own twisted corporate agendas.

[rdHatingBrit]

It's ABSOLUTELY not logical..... but have you known them to run on logic as of recent years?

Fuck we're talking about the same country whose government will publicly condemn torture of any kind yet supports the use of information gained from torture!
Thats being hypocritical; I agree with you there, that the CIA obtains information by un-ethical means.

BUT thats totally different from starting civil strife. The US has no fundamental motivation.

They'd do some sleezy down low acts. But this is not one of them.

[nabilah18]

HOLY FUCKIN SHIT

yeah i saw dat on the newz

I HATE THISSSSSSSSS

THATZ Y WE"RE CONSIDERED WEAK IN THE WORLD TODAY

CUZ WE GOT NO UNITY

WE"RE FIGHTIN JEWZ, WE"RE FIGHTIN AMERICA, FUCKIN, WE"RE FIGHTIN OURSELVEZ NOW TOO?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eekwtf:

this is the biggest bullshit

all ima do now iz pray that we came togetha and unite


Mosques have been the target of attacks before.

Muslims are not fighting Jews... You can argue that they are fighting Israel, but no Muslim country is currently in war with Israel.

thirdly, Muslims have been fighting Muslims since the beginning . nothing new.

[Space-Cowboy]

Thats being hypocritical; I agree with you there, that the CIA obtains information by un-ethical means.

BUT thats totally different from starting civil strife. The US has no fundamental motivation.

They'd do some sleezy down low acts. But this is not one of them.



At least we've come to SOME agreement, but I'll try and find you links to sources which can outline the American Corporate Agenda better than I can.

[rdHatingBrit]

he belongs in the UK section.
:lol:

[rdHatingBrit]

Mosques have been the target of attacks before.

Muslims are not fighting Jews... You can argue that they are fighting Israel, but no Muslim country is currently in war with Israel.

thirdly, Muslims have been fighting Muslims since the beginning . nothing new.
Palestine...

[Space-Cowboy]

Mosques have been the target of attacks before.

Muslims are not fighting Jews... You can argue that they are fighting Israel, but no Muslim country is currently in war with Israel.

thirdly, Muslims have been fighting Muslims since the beginning . nothing new.


You don't wish to recognize Palestine as a sovereign? :sarb:

[nabilah18]

Palestine...

Palestine is not fighting Jews. It's fighting zionist aggression..


sorry for my political correctness cuz i met some really cool anti-Zionist, anti-Occupation Jews..

[Space-Cowboy]

Palestine is not fighting Jews. It's fighting zionist aggression..


sorry for my political correctness cuz i met some really cool anti-Zionist, anti-Occupation Jews..


You said Israel, not Jews........

[Enammmmm]

:rofl:

enam

think yahoo chat

and u'lll know who i am;)

and i aint starting shit. it was a news event, what do you want me to do? Not read headlines?

i think of many ppl when i think of yahoo chat man...have no clue.

[xxmiss lanka]

omyG my love <3

[Enammmmm]

Well forget him, and read my posts, I'm here trying to prove that U.S. corporations DO have something to gain from the MidEast turmoil, for their own twisted corporate agendas.

yes I see that, and I agree....the world is only corrupted now even more because of U.S.A.

[nyczpakiprince]

And apperently we are fighting a war against illiteracy.
lmao

[nyczpakiprince]

Mosques have been the target of attacks before.

Muslims are not fighting Jews... You can argue that they are fighting Israel, but no Muslim country is currently in war with Israel.

thirdly, Muslims have been fighting Muslims since the beginning . nothing new.


okay

my point: we gotta unite

itz wrong enough to have opposotion, but to fight against ur own? what iz that

i swear we gotta get some muslim clericz/scholarz/speakerz down to iraq to have a lil talk wit their people :no:

[Space-Cowboy]

omyG my love <3

:sarb:

[Kadavi]

I had to post this...

One of the holiest Shia shrines was blown up today

The 'dome of the rock' - which is known for its golden dome..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4740010.stm

:no:

I'm kinda in shock, its one of the most recognized mosques in the world; And a monument for Shia Muslims..

This might be enough to start a civil war between Shia's and Sunni's

:no:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_enl_1140622457/img/1.jpg

The dome is totally destroyed:no:
Its all because of Bush Cheney gang . Bush must happy sitting down laughing his ass out to see Muslims fight among each other . He can make excuse to go war agian . i wont be suprised if the attack was plan by USA.

[Space-Cowboy]

Its all because of Bush Cheney gang . Bush must happy sitting down laughing his ass out to see Muslims fight among each other . He can make excuse to go war agian . i wont be suprised if the attack was plan by USA.


Bush and Cheney aren't laughing so much at this as they are simply.... content... the ones who ARE laughing all the way to the bank are the CEOs of the corporations who make the weapons bought by these terrorists. [The same corporations that put Bush/Cheney in power].

[rdHatingBrit]

i think of many ppl when i think of yahoo chat man...have no clue.
how many bloody 'hatingbrits' do you know?

[rdHatingBrit]

Palestine is not fighting Jews. It's fighting zionist aggression..


sorry for my political correctness cuz i met some really cool anti-Zionist, anti-Occupation Jews..
zionism the policy of a jewish homeland.

Its based on relgious principles.

Ask a palestinian if he is fighting against the Jews; and he'll say yes.

[Enammmmm]

how many bloody 'hatingbrits' do you know?


u surely can not be tea hating brit.

[Space-Cowboy]

yes I see that, and I agree....the world is only corrupted now even more because of U.S.A.


Yes, just remember that to kill the corruption you have to strike at the root. And the U.S. govt. is not the ROOT.... close tho. The ROOT is the U.S. Corporations....... especially ones like Haliburton...... or G.E.

[rdHatingBrit]

u surely can not be tea hating brit.
why's that?

[Enammmmm]

why's that?


pretty sure u arent.

ur an imitation.

if u are contact me through yahoo.

[Kadavi]

Bush and Cheney aren't laughing so much at this as they are simply.... content... the ones who ARE laughing all the way to the bank are the CEOs of the corporations who make the weapons bought by these terrorists. [The same corporations that put Bush/Cheney in power].
So Those terrorists can buy wepons openly from Cheney Weapon Factory so Bush himself is terrorists also than must be mingling with Bin Laden seceretly in his cave with gharam prata and chai

[rdHatingBrit]

Yes, just remember that to kill the corruption you have to strike at the root. And the U.S. govt. is not the ROOT.... close tho. The ROOT is the U.S. Corporations....... especially ones like Haliburton...... or G.E.
Ok hypothetical numbers here

Lets say a company makes; a billion dollars? From a Sunni/Shia war; but the Americans stepping in have to spend more then that in order to survive (their troops) in the area. The company that then made the money – puts it back into the pockets of Republicans in the next election.

What’s the point of that? People are already fed up with Republicans, why would they put themselves in more danger of losing the 2008 election, by putting their country more and more in debt.

Also imagine the loss of life (US soldiers) if a war does break out; also not going to look good for republicans.

In this situation, you’re theory is flawed.

[rdHatingBrit]

pretty sure u arent.

ur an imitation.

if u are contact me through yahoo.
get online

[Space-Cowboy]

So Those terrorists can buy wepons openly from Cheney Weapon Factory so Bush himself is terrorists also than must be mingling with Bin Laden seceretly in his cave with gharam prata and chai


Yes Bush is a terrorist.... in the guise of a 'liberator'.

[rdHatingBrit]

So Those terrorists can buy wepons openly from Cheney Weapon Factory so Bush himself is terrorists also than must be mingling with Bin Laden seceretly in his cave with gharam prata and chai
That has to be the most poorly structured, illogical statement I have ever heard in my entire life.

[Enammmmm]

get online

sure :danceOw:

[Space-Cowboy]

Ok hypothetical numbers here

Lets say a company makes; a billion dollars? From a Sunni/Shia war; but the Americans stepping in have to spend more then that in order to survive (their troops) in the area. The company that then made the money – puts it back into the pockets of Republicans in the next election.

What’s the point of that? People are already fed up with Republicans, why would they put themselves in more danger of losing the 2008 election, by putting their country more and more in debt.

Also imagine the loss of life (US soldiers) if a war does break out; also not going to look good for republicans.

In this situation, you’re theory is flawed.


You are going under the assumption that corporations thing in terms of the long term welfare of society and politics. They DON'T. Corporate Social Responsibility is a mere facade in the eyes of arms producers I'm afraid.

[xxmiss lanka]

:sarb:


not you.

[Space-Cowboy]

That has to be the most poorly structured, illogical statement I have ever heard in my entire life.


:rofl:

[Space-Cowboy]

not you.


but ..... but...... I thought I was special :(

[jardras]

Its all because of Bush Cheney gang . Bush must happy sitting down laughing his ass out to see Muslims fight among each other . He can make excuse to go war agian . i wont be suprised if the attack was plan by USA.


Col. Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I think I'm entitled.
Col. Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I want the truth.
Col. Jessep: You can't handle the truth.

[rdHatingBrit]

You are going under the assumption that corporations thing in terms of the long term welfare of society and politics. They DON'T. Corporate Social Responsibility is a mere facade in the eyes of arms producers I'm afraid.
They aren't as stupid as you make them out to be; CEO's are there for a reason, they know what they are doing




Mindy: :love:


Jardas - good movie

[methodman535]

Yea that's all true.... except......... it's not all that slick or elaborate at all. I'm just some kid in my early 20s that figured this shit out. The political analysts have figured this long since. And in all honesty it's not so much the U.S. government, as much as it is the Corporations [which btw FUND the U.S. government].

Corporations run the world: using the U.S. armed forces for 'hire' of sorts, but more so with the one thing no physical force can ever destroy: The Idea --- the idea of the 'westernization' of the world. And everyone has bought right into it.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic, the point I'm trying to make here is that the turmoil in the middle-east==> Syriana. Is not as a result of the American agenda... but of Corporate agenda.

And at this point, there's nothing the world can really do to stop it. :|

Corporate still translates to the elite power of the anglophile west. Note that the "corporate" entity which is the chinese national oil company was not able to purchase UNOCAL. Its kinda hazy to look at this as generic corporations cuz the corps are married to the govts...they ARE the governments. The US/UK megacorps and federal govts are pretty much the same at the top levels and work in symbiosis with each other.

[methodman535]

The most powerful and self serving nation in the world don't have to honour any contract if they don't have to. The armed forces are there to maintain a 'controlled chaos'. U.S. WANTS Shias and Sunnis to fight. The more they fight, the more arms they buy from the U.S. government..... and from freelance "Lords of War" that, indirectly, work on behalf of the U.S. government. [Yes Lord of War is an awesome movie, and no that's not what I'm pulling my sources from].

True. Divide and conquer. And an added bonus is that Iraq becomes even more a 4th world country rather than an emerging, prosperous power that will suck its own oil to fuel its industrialization and modernization....the west doesnt want that, instead they want to turn it into a wasteland that just exports its oil without using hardly any of it for its own benefit. This was yet another reason for them perpetuating the Iran-Iraq war...it fucked the Ira* economies up to the point where their appetite for their OWN oil never really took off.

[Space-Cowboy]

They aren't as stupid as you make them out to be; CEO's are there for a reason, they know what they are doing




Mindy: :love:


Jardas - good movie

.......... you sure they aren't?
:neutral: :sarb:

[boombastic_jatti]

I had to post this...

One of the holiest Shia shrines was blown up today

The 'dome of the rock' - which is known for its golden dome..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4740010.stm

:no:

I'm kinda in shock, its one of the most recognized mosques in the world; And a monument for Shia Muslims..

This might be enough to start a civil war between Shia's and Sunni's

:no:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_enl_1140622457/img/1.jpg

The dome is totally destroyed:no:
omg wat a shame...
who did tht??...i bloody dont get it...wat is this religion fite all abt!

[Space-Cowboy]

True. Divide and conquer. And an added bonus is that Iraq becomes even more a 4th world country rather than an emerging, prosperous power that will suck its own oil to fuel its industrialization and modernization....the west doesnt want that, instead they want to turn it into a wasteland that just exports its oil without using hardly any of it for its own benefit. This was yet another reason for them perpetuating the Iran-Iraq war...it fucked the Ira* economies up to the point where their appetite for their OWN oil never really took off.


I guess that's expected, every great Empire has employed similar tactics: Brits, Romans, Spanish, Macedonians, etc. :|

[methodman535]

Well if a civil war were to start there, it's highly unlikely that it would remain contained in Iraq; it would spread throughout the rest of the middle east, causing greater instability. Call me a conspiracy theorist but...

No real Muslim would blow up a mosque, regardless of whether they're Shia, Sunni, or what have you

MI6 has already been caught trying to blow shia targets up in southern Iraq, dressed up as arabs. :yes:

[methodman535]

omg wat a shame...
who did tht??...i bloody dont get it...wat is this religion fite all abt!

Its a conflict that has been created by the west ever since the end of the first Iraq war. They did it deliberately, its a core part of their mideast policy.

[boombastic_jatti]

Its a conflict that has been created by the west ever since the end of the first Iraq war. They did it deliberately, its a core part of their mideast policy.
dayum thaz bad...i seriously wonder wat this world is cummin to....i can picture the site 20yrs frm now

[rdHatingBrit]

Well if a civil war were to start there, it's highly unlikely that it would remain contained in Iraq; it would spread throughout the rest of the middle east, causing greater instability. Call me a conspiracy theorist but...

No real Muslim would blow up a mosque, regardless of whether they're Shia, Sunni, or what have you
Percisely; a real muslim would not blow up a mosque, or attempt to hurt Islam in anyway.

People like Osama Bin Ladin are not true muslims (cough wahabi's cough); but the media portray's them to be as such, and non-muslims then develop a wrong view of Islam.

BTW Sarah; how often is Inspire published?

[rdHatingBrit]

MI6 has already been caught trying to blow shia targets up in southern Iraq, dressed up as arabs. :yes:
again; I hesitate to believe that without any proof.

[MolviCorleone]

Percisely; a real muslim would not blow up a mosque, or attempt to hurt Islam in anyway.

People like Osama Bin Ladin are not true muslims (cough wahabi's cough); but the media portray's them to be as such, and non-muslims then develop a wrong view of Islam.

BTW Sarah; how often is Inspire published?


ahh

yes

najdis


The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: ´It is a place of tremor and Fitna (Mischief) and the horn of Shaitaan will rise from there.´ (Bukhari Shareef)

The 'horn of shaitan' means 'One who follows the advice of Shaitaan'

go figure.

[shiahazara]

yes they can

these are a minority and who knows its muslims who did it

for all we know it could be the cia

How could it be the CIA?

There are Muslims who hate us Shi'as.

Proof here:

http://allaboutgq.blogspot.com/2006/02/shia-mosqueshrine-blown-up.html

http://allaboutgq.blogspot.com/2006/02/dogs-from-hell-shias.html

My heart is in pieces currently.

May Allah swt curse the animals who harm us.

P.S. The blog is from a Pakistani from Chicago who used to post on Islamic boards such as Islamicaweb and SoundVision, where he used those two boards as a platform for his anti-Shi'a bigotry.

[methodman535]

again; I hesitate to believe that without any proof.

I myself hesitate to believe anything without proof. So I hesitate to believe its a maniacal sunni wahabi jihadi whatever group that did this.

Now I dont hesitate to suspect the unsuspectable either.

[shiahazara]

How do you know?

Did you talk to any of them prior to 9/11

Plus you dont know who was behind 9/11, many people are beginning to realise that but some are still set in thier ignorant ways. Typical media puppet.

So I suppose al-Jazeera is a puppet by the West, since they aired confessions by some of the hijackers of the heinous act?

Moron. :rolleyes

[methodman535]

How could it be the CIA?

There are Muslims who hate us Shi'as.

Proof here:

http://allaboutgq.blogspot.com/2006/02/shia-mosqueshrine-blown-up.html

http://allaboutgq.blogspot.com/2006/02/dogs-from-hell-shias.html

My heart is in pieces currently.

May Allah swt curse the animals who harm us.

P.S. The blog is from a Pakistani from Chicago who used to post on Islamic boards such as Islamicaweb and SoundVision, where he used those two boards as a platform for his anti-Shi'a bigotry.

Oh damn you found one sunni who hates shias. We never would have known, thanks.

Now I wonder if theres any shias who hate sunnis but pretend they just hate the "wahabis".

[methodman535]

So I suppose al-Jazeera is a puppet by the West, since they aired confessions by some of the hijackers of the heinous act?

Moron. :rolleyes

How does a dead hijacker confess something he did? :sarb:

[shiahazara]

Oh damn you found one sunni who hates shias. We never would have known, thanks.

Now I wonder if theres any shias who hate sunnis but pretend they just hate the "wahabis".

Are you merely discounting the fact that there are many Sunnis who hate Shi'as and support the destruction of our shrines?

There are people like him that exist in America, mainly in Chicago and Houston. Go on Islamicaweb or ClearGuidance for further proof.

[methodman535]

dayum thaz bad...i seriously wonder wat this world is cummin to....i can picture the site 20yrs frm now

The world isnt coming to anything, its already here and its staying the same course. 20 years from now its gunna be exactly like it is today and exactly like it was 20 years ago. Underneath all the smoke its the exact same world with the exact same players making the exact same mischief for the most part.

[shiahazara]

How does a dead hijacker confess something he did? :sarb:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2239889.stm

Now STFU.

In other news, 3 Arab journalists have been killed just now,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4742188.stm

[Space-Cowboy]

Oh damn you found one sunni who hates shias. We never would have known, thanks.

Now I wonder if theres any shias who hate sunnis but pretend they just hate the "wahabis".


Hate to interrupt here, but exactly what IS the difference between Sunnis and Shias.

I wouldn't know because I'm not Muslim.


And I still believe whatever it is, the strife is going on for political gains rather than a religious battle.

[methodman535]

Are you merely discounting the fact that there are many Sunnis who hate Shi'as and support the destruction of our shrines?

There are people like him that exist in America, mainly in Chicago and Houston. Go on Islamicaweb or ClearGuidance for further proof.

Yeah and there are also people like you that exist.

[shiahazara]

Yeah and there are also people like you that exist.

And what, pray tell, is wrong with that?

[Space-Cowboy]

O..K... I'll keep talking to myself then.. :rolleyes:

[methodman535]

Hate to interrupt here, but exactly what IS the difference between Sunnis and Shias.

I wouldn't know because I'm not Muslim.


And I still believe whatever it is, the strife is going on for political gains rather than a religious battle.

The differences are small but significant. A shia says Ali Ho Akbar where as a Sunni says Mullah Ho Akbar. Its a political difference that turned into a sectarian different. Ali was their "patron saint" so to speak and they adore him more than god himself. But in reality it doesnt mean much except it divides shias into a different sect, almost a different religion. Hence the conflict.

[Space-Cowboy]

The differences are small but significant. A shia says Ali Ho Akbar where as a Sunni says Mullah Ho Akbar. Its a political difference that turned into a sectarian different. Ali was their "patron saint" so to speak and they adore him more than god himself. But in reality it doesnt mean much except it divides shias into a different sect, almost a different religion. Hence the conflict.


So we're talking like Protestants/Catholics?

[methodman535]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2239889.stm

Now STFU.

In other news, 3 Arab journalists have been killed just now,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4742188.stm

This isnt a hijacker confessing to anything. The hijackers are all DEAD. This is some random nobody from a wishy washy organization called "al qaida" that said he did it. Anyone can say that for many different reasons.

And the first bin ladin "confession" turned out to be a fake video. Even ordinary people can see that the man in that video did not have bin ladens face. Now people are coming out with a sequel lol.

[methodman535]

So we're talking like Protestants/Catholics?

Exactly.

[methodman535]

And what, pray tell, is wrong with that?

Well my taqiya adoring friend, you are here on this forum to spew venom at people associated with the sunni islam sect. You will pretend that nothing at all is the root of all evil except sunnis. You will twist and shape reality just to incite your hatred and fuel your sectarian e-jihad.

[Space-Cowboy]

This is gonna go on for a while, I'll check on it tomorrow, nite.

[methodman535]

me too

[paki_guy786]

i am totally shocked and i can't beleive people would blow up a masjid and this is the one of signs of the world coming to the end and its' time for the muslim to stop hating on each other and help each other out and unite as ummah................ it's time for muslims unity :(

[rdHatingBrit]

The differences are small but significant. A shia says Ali Ho Akbar where as a Sunni says Mullah Ho Akbar. Its a political difference that turned into a sectarian different. Ali was their "patron saint" so to speak and they adore him more than god himself. But in reality it doesnt mean much except it divides shias into a different sect, almost a different religion. Hence the conflict.
Ok bullshit.

That is the type of ignorance I'm talking about;

Shia's revere Imam Ali more then God?

Where did you hear crap like that?!

We put importance upon him, the Prophet and his family.

Sunni's try to deflame Shia's by saying its at a point of idoltry, but really its just ignorance shinning through.

[rdHatingBrit]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2239889.stm

Now STFU.

In other news, 3 Arab journalists have been killed just now,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4742188.stm
See, you are proving another one of my points.

People take a look at a minority of a population; and make a sterotypical statement of that population.

Terrorists are shown as the face of Islam; and you are attempting to show the entire Sunni population as hating Shia's.

Not true; Some Sunni's do. Some Shia's hate Sunnis. etc.

But its the minority.

Be reasonable, and use some common sense.




As for the blame of the attack, some Sunni militants were arrested; according to BBC..

[WonkaBear]

Ouch thats sad. I remember when i was in india a few years back muslims were going into temples and shooting everybody there...

Its horrible when people start attackin people based on their faith...

however.. it is ironic how some faiths feel it is their right and duty to do so

[princeofkolkata]

this world has had its fair share of conflicts in the past, big or small
and this is jus another big event...people always fought each other and will continue to do so in the future, so it's nothing new

[aftm]

That sounds like an excuse. The people who practice their religion are representatives of their religion. To say that non-muslims should not seek information from muslims, makes muslims even more conspicuous, like they have something to hide. In any case, ppl may not be seeking information, they might just want to know how muslims think, make decisions. As long as muslims commit terror, then they automatically make it non-muslims business, unless muslims just kill their own. However that's not the case, they kill everyone.

Reading books doesn't improve the situation either. Read about Jesus from the bible and Mohammed from the Koran. You will see some major differences. You might get some answers as to what it means to be human.

I take your point as valid that people who believe in a religion are representatives of it. However, the point I was trying to make was that sometimes, second hand information is not correct enough. This is the case with Muslims themselves as well. A lot of us believe things to be a part of Islam which aren't, e.g., how many Muslims know (or consider to be important) the Hadith that one should pay the worker before his sweat dries. Now this does not necessarily imply that you have to move to a daily wages system. All it means is that Islam emphasizes fair treatment of people and one should not unduly delay payment. Now, this is as much a part of Islam as any of the other things people mention. However, this bit doesn't get any importance from anybody. There's a million other similar things that nobody knows or cares about. What I said was, that this is a fundamental problem with Muslims, that they had stopped thinking and have become complacent in their understanding of Islam.

So I was directing to people like you and hindu_heat, that if you are curious about Islam, read for yourself. The translation of Quran is even on a website, to which I refer to sometimes. It has English translations by 5 scholars, so you can read and make up your own mind.

I am not preaching here. All I'm saying is, instead of taking flawed point of views from people, lay people, like me and so many others on this board, read for yourself. I'd tell you the same thing if you were asking me to explain what automata and complexity theory are all about and how compilers are constructed. I, being a computer scientist, could give you a partial, probably flawed point of view of the afore-mentioned since I am not specialized in this area, but your best bet would be to go to publicly available texts and read for yourself. It ain't hard and it gives you the correct information.

[aftm]

Where does Islam say that..... if you don't understand the religion then you shouldnt make retarded statements like that.. youre so stupid..

Catholicism believes in confession...it believes that a child is born into sin (for a crime he/she didnt commit)... it believes that Jesus saved man from sin and that the saved are rewarded with heaven

[snip snip]

In Islam, it is up to the Almighty God to decide whether one goes to heaven or hell and not up to the concoctions of man (i.e. Catholic Church) ...

Sunnis and Shias are not like Protestants and Catholics because both Sunnis and Shias believe in one unique God... not a triad


Well said.

[aftm]

It's a shame that you have never found a 'valid reference' for that particular hadith, Let me help you out. Its from Hadith-e-Ghadir, the speach that the Prophet gave at a place called Ghadir-e-Khum on his return from Mecca.

In the Quran it also discuesses the event of Ghadir-e-Khum:

“O thou esteemed Messenger, impart the guidance that has been revealed unto thee”,
“For if thou doeth it not, thou has not imparted His Message at all”;
“God will protect thee from the evil designs of men”. (Ch. 5 ‘verse 67)

AFTER THIS EVENT, Gibrael once again came to the prophet, and this sura is in the Quran:

“This day have I perfected unto you your religion and completed upon you My Blessings, and I am well-pleased with Islam as your religion.” (Ch. 5, Verse 3).

THAT is the Shia point of view my friend.

I am reproducing some translations of Quran. These are primarily for rdHatingBrit. I apologize to all non-Muslims for posting these since they may perceive this as me being preachy. I am not. This post is specifically for rdHatingBrit.

Ch. 5 is Surat-al-Maida.

Ch. 5, Verse 3 (in its entirety):

Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs,* and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of themselves include those) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning (the eradication of) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.

Ch. 5, Verse 65: If only the people of the scripture believe and lead a righteous life, we will then remit their sins, and admit them into gardens of bliss.

Ch. 5, Verse 66: If only they would uphold the Torah and the Gospel, and what is sent down to them herein from their Lord, they would be showered with blessings from above them and from beneath their feet. Some of them are righteous, but many of them are evildoers.

Ch. 5, Verse 67: O you messenger, deliver what is revealed to you from your Lord - until you do, you have not delivered His message - and GOD will protect you from the people. GOD does not guide the disbelieving people.

Ch. 5, Verse 68: Say, "O people of the scripture, you have no basis until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.

Ch. 5, Verse 69: Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

The chapter has a total of 120 verses. I only reproduced the translation of 6 of them. The entire chapter can be read at http://www.submission.info/servlet/qtbrowse. The page is browsable and searchable. When I read your post, I went there and read the translation. I do not see what your recount of the background has to do with what's being talked about in the surat. The verses you referenced aren't even specifically directed at Muslims of the time. Therefore, use your head. Think. If you still think I'm wrong, so be it. However, I personally think that you have been given incorrect information. I do apologize, however, for pointing it out to you.

PS: For those who do not know, the Quran is organized into chapters and verses, what are called 'surah' or 'surat' in Arabic. A verse is an 'ayat' or 'ayah'. The last syllabic is sounded when the word is read joined with another word and not sounded when said on it's own. For example, in saying 'surat-al-Anfaal', the T would be sounded. On its own the T in 'surat' is not sounded so in English, it is sometimes written like surah. The case of the word 'ayat' is the same.

[aftm]

Wanna bet?

Anyway,

Cheney is a major shareholder of a company Haliburton, which in turn has investments in munitions. They STAND to gain from this war. There have been routine accounts of under the table purchases of arms which U.S. claims are for the "domestic protection of Iraqi civilians"..... which we know damn well where these weapons are going into.

[stuff deleted]

And so, while Bush may not have to care as this is his last term. Cheney still stands to gain, he still wants to keep the war going, as does many other stakeholders.

There are multiple issues at work in Iraq from the point of view of the US Govt. as I see it.

First, there is price of oil. The consuption of oil in China and to an extent in India is spiking due to rapid industrialization. That is or will drive the price of oil even higher. If you think American businesses are feeling the crunch at 60 dollars a barrel, imagine what they'd feel at 120 dollars a barrel. Keep in mind, that the ideal price of a barrel of oil by mutual agreement of OPEC and oil-consuming countries was circa 28 dollars a barrel. This was back in 2000. There was a big row between OPEC and other oil-consuming countries back in 2000 'coz the price of a barrel of oil was going over 35 dollars a barrel.

Secondly, there the small matter of securing the source of a vital raw material. Oil is a major component in the developed economies of the world. The trucking industry (which is pretty much the backbone of the US economy) and the airline industry (which can't foreseeably use alternate sources of energy) rely on cheap oil. More importantly, the rely on oil being available. If another country, say China, secures oil from a country, US would be in big trouble economically speaking. How many of you follow news stories about the US govt. telling China (and other countries) to slow down, to follow what they call "sustainable growth". There's even a UN organization for sustainable development. That is basically just another way of pressuring developing countries to empter their growth so that they don't smother the resources available in the global economy.

It ain't fair trade, my friends. It's unfair trade. And most of us are unwise to these obscure issues, because all we hear on the news is planes flying into buildings and people blowing themselves up. I think the more newsworthy stories are about how we are still living in colonial times, albiet being controlled from a distance. Which is actually much worse since the controller is not in there with us, but sitting at a distance, in the comfort of his well-developed economy. On the other hand, you have countries like Indian and Pakistand and Afghanistan, with literally abject poverty. This is the fucking 21st century. Look up the numbers for world hunger, world food production and world food consumption. If the numbers don't horror you, more than the spectre of Muslims terrorists, then you're not human.

Someone should tell Bush and Blair that you cannot push abstract ideas like democracy and freedom and liberty to people who's kids look like a bag of bones, who cannot afford basic amenities of life like running water and a room to sleep at night in.

What I find funny in the comedy of errors that is the US foreign policy is that everytime they have tried to "modify" another country, it has come back to bite them in the ass. It's just a matter of time, really, before this is going to be another Korea, another Vietnam, another Iran, another Beirut or another Bay of Pigs. The list is long and distinguished BTW. I could fill pages with names of countries where the US invaded and then got bitch-slapped eventually.

[LIVELOVEDIEBURN]

Da World Iz Cumin Near Ur Momz Fanny

[suhailio]

Da World Iz Cumin Near Ur Momz Fanny

:roflbow:

[rdHatingBrit]

A bit of a long read; but it clarifies my point of view:

Bidding farewell to his native city of Mecca, the Prophet set out for Medina on the 14th Zilhajj, 10 A.H., accompanied by the same congregation of Muslims.
Yet on close scrutiny, his serene features could not have failed to disclose the signs of deep contemplation as if he was weighing the pros and cons of some momentous decision.
What could be the cause of this restlessness? Had he not accomplished all that he had set his mind to do?
The Unity and Justice of God had been convincingly instilled into the hearts of men; the belief in the angels, the scriptures, the Prophets, the resurrection of the dead, and the Day of Judgment had all been authoritatively expounded.
But with the meticulous thoroughness of his genius, Prophet Muhammad realized that the most important part of his task still remained unfulfilled, and it was this, which made him restless at the moment of his greatest triumph. He saw that the sands of time were running out and the cup of his life was filled almost to the brim. ‘This being so, the most Important task was to ensure the continuity of his life’s work by someone endowed with all the moral values which he had upheld or else. He has miraculous achievements during the twenty-three years of his apostolic ministry stood In danger of being Irretrievably undone. It was a matter of prime Importance that Divine guidance should continue after him and that the Divine sovereignty should be exercised by the chosen ones of God, to be appointed by the Prophet.
He had already designated his Ahl-ul-Bait on several occasions, as the Ark of Noah, the strong rope of God, the door of forgiveness, the purified ones, and made the love of these holy ones incumbent upon his followers. He had similarly, on many occasions, pointed out Ali as “My brother and Successor”, “The door of the city of knowledge”, “The most equitable judge”, “Th. embodiment of faith”, and having the position in relation to himself as “Aaron was to Moses”.
Were these pronouncements in the course of time going to be forgotten, misinterpreted or ignored by his followers after him? Could the Prophet allow thorn to be set aside by power-seekers? He knew that he had to make a final and unchallengeable declaration regarding his successor. The choice of the appropriate moment, however, depended not on him but on Divine Inspiration. With these thoughts in his mind he marched on towards Medina.
As he arrived at Ghadir-E-Khum, suddenly the signs of a revelation appeared. The voice of Archangel Gabriel was heard saying
“O thou esteemed Messenger, impart the guidance that has been revealed unto thee”, * and in order to impress the urgency of the command, Gabriel went on to say:
“For if thou doeth it not, thou has not imparted His Message at all”;
and again in the same breath to allay his fears and misgivings the angel added:
“God will protect thee from the evil designs of men”. (Ch. 5 ‘verse 67)
It is held that the Prophet had already been commanded to proclaim Ali as his successor, but he had postponed the announcement for some suitable occasion to avoid misinterpretation.1
* It refers to the Commandment contained in Sura XCIV of the Quran, which says
Have We not opened thy breast for thee?
And put off thy burden from thee,
Which galled thy back?
And have We not raised thy name for thee?
Then verily, with trouble cometh ease,
Verily, along with trouble cometh case;
And when thou art eased, set up (thy successor),
And turn to thy Lord with fervor.
In the 7th verse God has commanded the Prophet to appoint his successor.
On hearing this imperious command, the Prophet made up his mind instantly. He motioned the muezzin Bilal to stop and recite the Azan with the words, “Hayya’ ala Khair il’amal” (hasten towards the best of deeds), for surely the acceptance thereof was to be a crucial event upon which the perpetuity of the Prophet’s Mission depended.
As the Prophet pulled up his reins, the whole entourage came to a halt. Those who had gone ahead were summoned back and those who followed gathered round casting inquiring glances at each other. A pulpit was formed, thus completed, the throng squatted upon the bare ground, some spreading their cloaks below to protect themselves from the burning sand, others holding up their handkerchiefs to shield their eyes from the sun’s glare, for it was nearly midday.
The people having clustered round the pulpit, the Prophet stepped forward and on his right was Ali, whose turban, black in color, with its ends hanging over both of his shoulders, was arranged by the Prophet himself. Then obeying the Divine Injunction to the letter, he addressed the multitude in the following memorable words.2
“All praise belongs to God. In Him do I put my faith and from Him do I crave support. Him do I trust and His protection seek against the malice of our souls and evils of our deeds. The misguided have no guide save Him, and those who are guided by Him can never go astray. I bear witness that there is no one worthy of worship save Him and that I, Muhammad, am His slave and Messenger.”
“O ye folk, behold, the All-knowing God bath informed me that the days of my life are coming to an end and the time is fast approaching when I shall be called away from your midst towards the eternal abode. But you and I, each one of us is answerable unto God for all things arc duc unto Him from us. What then do you say?”
And the listeners answered, “we bear witness that thou hast done thy duty and never stinted to guide and advise us according to the Divine Will.”
“Then do ye bear witness”, asked the Prophet, “to the Unity of God and the Apostleship of this servant of God, who now speaks to you by His command, and do ye not bear witness that the resurrection and judgment, heaven and hell and the life hereafter are certainties?”
And they all answered, “Yea, verily Yea.”
“Now then”, continued the Prophet, “Listen to me carefully; I have been commanded to tell you that I will soon be taken away from your midst, but I leave unto you my Legacy of two grand precepts, each of which surpasses the other in its grandeur-God’s Holy Book (The Quran) and my Ahl-ul-Bait (my irrevocable Progeny, consisting of Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain). Never shall they separate from one another until they reach me in Heaven at the Fountain of Kausar, and so long as you will adhere unto both my legacies, you will never be led astray after me. Therefore, O ye folk, it is my last Will and Testament unto you that you should always remain faithful to the Holy Quran and my Ahl-ul-Bait as true Muslims until death.”
By these portentous words all those who loved their teacher and benefactor were moved to tears.
And he continued, “Do not lag too far behind them and do not walk ahead of them, for in either event you will go astray. But follow them and walk in their footsteps and they will guide you along the Straight Path.”
Then he asked, “Who do you think is more worthy of obedience than your souls?”
And they answered, “God and His messenger know best.”
And he continued, “Lo! God is my Master, and am I not worthy of obedience from you?”
And they all said, “Yea, verily Yea.”
Then the Prophet bent down and lifted up Ali in his hands, showing him to the crowds on all sides of the pulpit, aid proclaimed,
“Mun Kunto Maulaho fe haaza Ali-yun Maulah”
“Of whomsoever I am the Master (Mauls), this Ali is his Master (Mania)”. So saying the Prophet raised up his hands heavenwards and prayed, “O our God, love those who will love Ali, despise those who will despise him; support those who will support him; sad reject those who will reject him. 3”
Announcing this thrice, he got down from the raised platform, and seated Ali in a tent, where the people did him homage. Omar bin Al-Khatab was the first to congratulate Ali and to acknowledge him ‘Guardian of all Believers’ 4
Saying “Bakhin bakhin laka ibne Abi Talih Asbahta Maul ayee
Wa Maula kulla Momineen wa Mominaatin.”
“Greetings be to thee O son of Abu Talib!
Thou hast dawned as my Leader and the Leader of all faithful men and women.”
After the men, came all the women to congratulate Ali. At the conclusion of this installation ceremony, the Holy Prophet asked the congregation, ‘Have I not truly and faithfully delivered unto you the Message?’
And they answered, “Yea, verily Yea.”
Then the Prophet said, “Go now, and let those who have been present here today repeat and convey to those who are absent all that they have seen and heard.”
At this moment the Divine Inspiration again descended upon our Holy Prophet with the memorable words that read,
“This day have I perfected unto you your religion and completed upon you My Blessings, and I am well-pleased with Islam as your religion.” (Ch. 5, Verse 3).
The tone and purpose of these two religious revelations, firstly, the verse commanding the Prophet to deliver the Message with the warning that any omission on his part would be a complete failure of his mission, and secondly, this last revelation, declaring the Lord’s pleasure at the fulfillment of the task, clearly indicate that they relate to some matter of prime importance and not merely to some abstruse detail of ritual. It is only in the light of the Hadith-e-Ghadir that these two passages of the Holy Quran can be properly understood in their true importance and full significance. By consensus of the exegesis these two verses were revealed after the Prophet’s last pilgrimage.

I can provide historical authentication as well, if you wish.

[sameer]

n e one wanting to disgrace the religion of Islam, or n e one who wants to lift tensions from the whole cartoon controversy, has motive to do something like this... but agian Allah hu Alam, Allah knows best. Again may Allah guide the misguided... Ameen.

oh please dont act as if the only way something disgraceful can happen to islam is if someone on the outside did it. shias and sunnis have been fighting for ages, this is just another example of it. in the last few years most muslim's rage has been against the USA and so there hasnt been much concentration on the internal problems. but its been there for a while and its still there.

[Indian_Eyess]

oh please dont act as if the only way something disgraceful can happen to islam is if someone on the outside did it. shias and sunnis have been fighting for ages, this is just another example of it. in the last few years most muslim's rage has been against the USA and so there hasnt been much concentration on the internal problems. but its been there for a while and its still there.
Shi'as and Sunnis weren't fighting to the extent they were doing in the past 300 years.

[methodman535]

Ok bullshit.

That is the type of ignorance I'm talking about;

Shia's revere Imam Ali more then God?

Where did you hear crap like that?!

We put importance upon him, the Prophet and his family.

Sunni's try to deflame Shia's by saying its at a point of idoltry, but really its just ignorance shinning through.

I was exagerrating moron, the point is shia and sunni might as well be two completely different religions.

[methodman535]

um no, no that's not it.

You people take everything so literally. Its a fact that shias are much more obsessed with Ali than sunnis are. It might as well be a completely different religion. The shias might as well be saying ali ho akbar and the sunnis might as well be saying mullah ho akbar. Its a joke they both call themselves muslims. Capiche now?

[Space-Cowboy]

You people take everything so literally. Its a fact that shias are much more obsessed with Ali than sunnis are. It might as well be a completely different religion. The shias might as well be saying ali ho akbar and the sunnis might as well be saying mullah ho akbar. Its a joke they both call themselves muslims. Capiche now?


They both can't be Muslim? :sarb:

[methodman535]

They both can't be Muslim? :sarb:


You dont get my point. They both are muslim in name but they are so factionalized and tribalized and distinct from each other that they may as well be two different races with two different religions.

[Space-Cowboy]

You dont get my point. They both are muslim in name but they are so factionalized and tribalized and distinct from each other that they may as well be two different races with two different religions.

No no, I understand what you were trying to say, was just worded awkwardly.

[Space-Cowboy]

Don't let this thread die, it was such a good one... :'(

[xxmiss lanka]

but ..... but...... I thought I was special :(

you are. but not to me.


shibby :love: right back at you, even though you`re gone now.

[Space-Cowboy]

you are. but not to me.


shibby :love: right back at you, even though you`re gone now.


Ouch, that's harsh.


"You are, that's why I'm signing you up for the Olympics" would also have been an acceptable reply.

[methodman535]

No no, I understand what you were trying to say, was just worded awkwardly.

Then what exactly were you asking, word it less awkwardly.

[EwLookItsYou]

OMG this really ahpepned?!!!!!! that's terrible wtf the dome of the rock.. wtf who would blow it up.. omg ppl are assholes

[Indian_Eyess]

OMG this really ahpepned?!!!!!! that's terrible wtf the dome of the rock.. wtf who would blow it up.. omg ppl are assholes
wrong area of the world

[Space-Cowboy]

Then what exactly were you asking, word it less awkwardly.


Don't worry bout it, you already answered my question.