How badly did the brits really screw up India and Pakistan?

[methodman535]

In another thread people brought up the issue that after Great Britain gave up her colonies, due to her weakness after the axis powers beat the crap out of the brits before finally surrendering, the brits actually screwed things up and defined borders in a way to create friction amongst her former colonies.

1. Pakistan. Besides being in constant conflict with india over kashmir, pakistan also has a border dispute with afghanistan over NWFP. When the punjabi armies signed their last truce with the afghans, the brits drew a line called the durand line that split the pathan population right in the middle, thats where the paki border with afghanistan lies. When pakistan was created the british could have given afghanistan NWFP back but they didnt....afghanistan was against the creation of pakistan because of that!
Also kashmir, the brits could have given it to either pak or to india...but they just left it up in the air!

2. Kurdistan. The kurds hated the british and tried kicking them out of iraq in the 1930s....and got GASSED by the brits because of it....could this be why there was no kurdistan created? They left the kurds there to fight with iranis, iraqis, turks and syrians to punish them and create mischief in the ME too?

3. Kuwait....the kuwaiti royal family were loyal british allies...supposedly thats why they got their own lil country, but carved out of a portion of iraq. Another flashpoint,

4. Palestine...the british knew this would be a problem and they could have formed a secular govt such as in lebenon instead of tolerating a zionist type of fascist govt that they knew would be on a collision course with the arabs.


Well anyway....did the brits carve their old colonies up in a way that would create instablilty and make it easier for "neo colonialism" to thrive after WW2? Or is this just bogus crap made up by incompetent desi fucks to explain their own fucked up failed countries?

[aliG]

they were weak by WWII, and the USA made sure of that BEFORE entering the big war. I don't know if the brits did this on purpose, or were they too busy packing their backs and watching their rears, but i know for sure that the US had a good hand in breaking the empire....so their own could survive.

[adren@line]

People need to get over this "blame-the-white-man" syndrome.

India and Pakistan in there modern form were created at exactly the same time.

However, India, in many areas, is light years ahead of Pakistan.

Its a fact of life that Islamic and Islamic Governments stagnate the progress of a country, which can be seen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, just about every African Muslim country as well as most of the middle eastern countries.

[aliG]

People need to get over this "blame-the-white-man" syndrome.

India and Pakistan in there modern form were created at exactly the same time.

However, India, in many areas, is light years ahead of Pakistan.

Its a fact of life that Islamic and Islamic Governments stagnate the progress of a country, which can be seen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, just about every African Muslim country as well as most of the middle eastern countries.


err yea yea...dump the history book theory. what else is new? whats the new god on the block?

[devona]

i think colonialism anywhere does more harm than good. sure it brings new ideas and new ways of living to the forefront but in the end nothing really positive comes out of it. the countries resources get drained...india was a wealthy country before other countries (britain, portugal etc) looted it.

[aliG]

i think colonialism anywhere does more harm than good. sure it brings new ideas and new ways of living to the forefront but in the end nothing really positive comes out of it. the countries resources get drained...india was a wealthy country before other countries (britain, portugal etc) looted it.


india had never ever before been a country in its history. it was always known as the LAND of India with a bunch of kings with their own states on the subcontinent.

[punjabi_mundaa]

People need to get over this "blame-the-white-man" syndrome.

India and Pakistan in there modern form were created at exactly the same time.

However, India, in many areas, is light years ahead of Pakistan.

Its a fact of life that Islamic and Islamic Governments stagnate the progress of a country, which can be seen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, just about every African Muslim country as well as most of the middle eastern countries.

what a liar!!!!!!! Islam stagnates a government??? The Abbassids, the Fatimids, the Moors, the Ottomans, the Mughals were all stagnated by religion...they made significant contributions to mankind the most important being the survival of the scientific knowledge from the Ancient Civilization: Romans, greeks, and Persians as well as being the centers of trade, science, religion/philosophy, etc. Why are you selecting only Muslim African countries...it more like Africa as a whole except South Africa....stop making Islam and Muslims look bad for God's sake...
India is not light years ahead of Pakistan...it is industrialized because of the mere fact that it has more friggin land, more friggin people, and more friggin resources.....Pakistan on the other hand is doing pretty good considering half of our land is not suitable for survival and we have engaged in three wars with our larger neighbors....

"blame-the-white man" theory...hmm...it's not racism but who else was responsible for the plundering of foreingn lands, enslavement and forced conversion of millions, and the brutal colonialism spread across Asia and Afrika.....hmm Europeans......

[methodman535]

People need to get over this "blame-the-white-man" syndrome.

India and Pakistan in there modern form were created at exactly the same time.

However, India, in many areas, is light years ahead of Pakistan.

Its a fact of life that Islamic and Islamic Governments stagnate the progress of a country, which can be seen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, just about every African Muslim country as well as most of the middle eastern countries.

Does hinduism have the opposite effect? If you think so then Id like to hear your take on the fact that Hindustan with its 750 million hindus has to kiss Isreal's ass to get 5 million jews to turn over a radar for a couple tidy billion dollars. Why is it that 800 million forward thinking hindus...make up an economy smaller than the size of spain? Why was it that until the 1990s, pakistan had a GDP per capita about 10 to 20% higher than India's? And bear in mind pakistan started from scratch....most of the industrial wealth was concentrated proportionately at a higher level in post partition India if Im not mistaken.

[paulie walnuts]

People need to get over this "blame-the-white-man" syndrome.

India and Pakistan in there modern form were created at exactly the same time.

However, India, in many areas, is light years ahead of Pakistan.

Its a fact of life that Islamic and Islamic Governments stagnate the progress of a country, which can be seen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, just about every African Muslim country as well as most of the middle eastern countries.

Does hinduism have the opposite effect? If you think so then Id like to hear your take on the fact that Hindustan with its 750 million hindus has to kiss Isreal's ass to get 5 million jews to turn over a radar for a couple tidy billion dollars. Why is it that 800 million forward thinking hindus...make up an economy smaller than the size of spain? Why was it that until the 1990s, pakistan had a GDP per capita about 10 to 20% higher than India's? And bear in mind pakistan started from scratch....most of the industrial wealth was concentrated proportionately at a higher level in post partition India if Im not mistaken.

um....India is a poor country. i thought this was obvious. the GDP per capita used to be (and still is) so low because the total income was divided over sooo many people, many of which are unemployed or add very little to that total. in india, using the population to measure successes and say "well you have sooo many people, why dont you have.....", etc. is dumb because a large percentage of the population are nonfactors. i say that meaning they essentially dont have the opportunity to contribute, and thus do not contribute to anything. they live and die being nonfactors all their lives.

as far as comparisons to pakistan, come on guys, its pretty obvious who is ahead of who. i dont know of a single prominent pakistani company or businessmen. yet magazines like businessweek constantly feature indian billionaires and corporations (wipro, infosys, satyam, etc.). the indian economy is growing like crazy right now. and the predictions (which i dont even care for) have india as the 2nd-3rd largest economy in the near future. It has the 4th largest GDP in the world, behind only the US, China, and Japan.

let alone the IT boom and current waves of outsourcing. the foreign investment going into india right now is insane. where the hell is pakistan in all of this?

edit: please provide a source for the Pak gdp/percapita being 20% higher than India's. thanks

[iikhushi86ii]

i really dont care. i love india and pakistan.

[paulie walnuts]

ok after some actual research....the numbers are daunting. look at each comparison. each one of these categories sees Pakistan trailing behind, often significantly:

Infant Mortality Rate:
India - 59.59
Pakistan - 76.53

Total Fertility Rate:
India - 2.91
Pakistan - 4.1

Total Life Expectancy:
India - 64.62
Pakistan - 62.2

Literacy %:
India - 60.7 (71.1 Male, 48.3 Female)
Pakistan - 45.7 (59.8 Male, 29.8 Female)

GDP per capita:
India - $2,900
Pakistan - $2,000

Pop. Below Poverty Line:
India - 25%
Pakistan - 35%

Source: www.cia.gov

[methodman535]

People need to get over this "blame-the-white-man" syndrome.

India and Pakistan in there modern form were created at exactly the same time.

However, India, in many areas, is light years ahead of Pakistan.

Its a fact of life that Islamic and Islamic Governments stagnate the progress of a country, which can be seen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, just about every African Muslim country as well as most of the middle eastern countries.

Does hinduism have the opposite effect? If you think so then Id like to hear your take on the fact that Hindustan with its 750 million hindus has to kiss Isreal's ass to get 5 million jews to turn over a radar for a couple tidy billion dollars. Why is it that 800 million forward thinking hindus...make up an economy smaller than the size of spain? Why was it that until the 1990s, pakistan had a GDP per capita about 10 to 20% higher than India's? And bear in mind pakistan started from scratch....most of the industrial wealth was concentrated proportionately at a higher level in post partition India if Im not mistaken.

um....India is a poor country. i thought this was obvious. the GDP per capita used to be (and still is) so low because the total income was divided over sooo many people, many of which are unemployed or add very little to that total. in india, using the population to measure successes and say "well you have sooo many people, why dont you have.....", etc. is dumb because a large percentage of the population are nonfactors. i say that meaning they essentially dont have the opportunity to contribute, and thus do not contribute to anything. they live and die being nonfactors all their lives.

as far as comparisons to pakistan, come on guys, its pretty obvious who is ahead of who. i dont know of a single prominent pakistani company or businessmen. yet magazines like businessweek constantly feature indian billionaires and corporations (wipro, infosys, satyam, etc.). the indian economy is growing like crazy right now. and the predictions (which i dont even care for) have india as the 3rd largest economy in the near future.

let alone the IT boom and current waves of outsourcing. the foreign investment going into india right now is insane. where the hell is pakistan in all of this?

edit: please provide a source for the Pak gdp/percapita being 20% higher than India's. thanks


That was a pretty long ramble. Still didnt answer my question. 60 years of independence and being what...8 times as large only resulted in per capita adjusted GDP of what...20% more than pakistan? Is that like the difference between night and day? I dont think so. And I still dont see any proof or explanation or theories as to how RELIGION has caused pakistans GDP figures to lag behind. Pakistan also sustains a much larger population growth. This IT outsourcing etc is just getting lucky....nobody outsources to india because its a non-religious country do they? They do it because its cheaper.

[paulie walnuts]

i dont know what religion has to do with anything, im not making that argument. well, actually it probably directly affects the piss-poor literacy rates in pakistan. india's are already bad, but 71% of pakistani women are illiterate. that is probably a result of religion.

india has the 4th largest GDP in the world, 2nd largest population. that makes pretty good sense. only 2 places off. Pakistan has the worlds 7 largest population, yet its GDP is 27th.

how is outsourcing "getting lucky"? i'd like to hear this one. higher education in india is almost unrivaled. its a natural result. and yeah, obviously the lower cost of labor is the reason. but there are PLENTY of other countries that would take much lower salaries. theres a reason india is at the top right now.

[aliG]

ok after some actual research....the numbers are daunting. look at each comparison. each one of these categories sees Pakistan trailing behind, often significantly:

Infant Mortality Rate:
India - 59.59
Pakistan - 76.53

Total Fertility Rate:
India - 2.91
Pakistan - 4.1

Total Life Expectancy:
India - 64.62
Pakistan - 62.2

Literacy %:
India - 60.7 (71.1 Male, 48.3 Female)
Pakistan - 45.7 (59.8 Male, 29.8 Female)

GDP per capita:
India - $2,900
Pakistan - $2,000

Pop. Below Poverty Line:
India - 25%
Pakistan - 35%

Source: www.cia.gov

yes typical of indians to use stats when it comes to an issue where actually THEY have a bigger problem.

india has a billion people. 40 percent are illeterate. this must mean that 400 million people are illeterate! the population of many countries combined! there is no comparison this way. This is the stupidest thing. go worship an elephant trunk.

[paulie walnuts]

yes typical of indians to use stats when it comes to an issue where actually THEY have a bigger problem.

india has a billion people. 40 percent are illeterate. this must mean that 400 million people are illeterate! the population of many countries combined! there is no comparison this way. This is the stupidest thing. go worship an elephant trunk.

what the fuck are you saying? go face the corner while i look for a dunce cap. comparison is always by percentages. you are an idiot.

[methodman535]

yes typical of indians to use stats when it comes to an issue where actually THEY have a bigger problem.

india has a billion people. 40 percent are illeterate. this must mean that 400 million people are illeterate! the population of many countries combined! there is no comparison this way. This is the stupidest thing. go worship an elephant trunk.

what the fuck are you saying? go face the corner while i look for a dunce cap. comparison is always by percentages. you are an idiot.


Math isnt his strong point obviously. Anyway....you spent a lot of time finding out that more pakis than indians are under the povery line right? Percentage wise.....now I pose another question to you. What percentage of indians live on less than a dollar a day compared to pakis living on less than a dollar a day....now this is poverty to the umpteenth power.

[paulie walnuts]

yes typical of indians to use stats when it comes to an issue where actually THEY have a bigger problem.

india has a billion people. 40 percent are illeterate. this must mean that 400 million people are illeterate! the population of many countries combined! there is no comparison this way. This is the stupidest thing. go worship an elephant trunk.

what the fuck are you saying? go face the corner while i look for a dunce cap. comparison is always by percentages. you are an idiot.


Math isnt his strong point obviously. Anyway....you spent a lot of time finding out that more pakis than indians are under the povery line right? Percentage wise.....now I pose another question to you. What percentage of indians live on less than a dollar a day compared to pakis living on less than a dollar a day....now this is poverty to the umpteenth power.

I have no idea, but by your tone it looks like a higher percentage for indians? If this is true, i wouldnt be surprised. The distribution of wealth in India is absolutely pathetic.

But those statistics are quite telling considering the wealthy upper class makes up a very small percentage of the overall population. so its influence is minimal from a statistics standpoint.

[methodman535]

i dont know what religion has to do with anything, im not making that argument. well, actually it probably directly affects the piss-poor literacy rates in pakistan. india's are already bad, but 71% of pakistani women are illiterate. that is probably a result of religion.

india has the 4th largest GDP in the world, 2nd largest population. that makes pretty good sense. only 2 places off. Pakistan has the worlds 7 largest population, yet its GDP is 27th.

how is outsourcing "getting lucky"? i'd like to hear this one. higher education in india is almost unrivaled. its a natural result. and yeah, obviously the lower cost of labor is the reason. but there are PLENTY of other countries that would take much lower salaries. theres a reason india is at the top right now.


I doubt India has the 4th largest GDP. Here is what I think the GDPs are off the top of my head in descending size---USA>JAPAN>Germany>UK>China>Italy>France> and then maybe Brazil, India, and a few others.

Outsourcing is getting lucky because a tremendous amount of business is being thrown the way of india from countries that are bursting with money that has been built up steadily since the industrial revolution. Its instant cash, India does not have to invest in R&D, marketing, manufacturing trial and error..what happens is a foreign company brings their grunt work to India and pays in cold hard cash, its amost like striking oil in a way. Because life is so cheap in India....well you get the picture.

Now...compare this with china...china took a much more complicated route, it was much harder to set themselves up as the workshop of the G7 and to this day they bring in multiple times more income and foreign exchange and income than india does through IT outsourcing.

Anyways....what does religion have to do with anything? Im not sure...thats what I was asking Adrenaline when he made the statement that Islam sent pakistan into the dark ages and india into the stars. Well...Im just asking for a comprehensive analysis from him or anyone for that statement because honestly, just by itself it sounds like its coming from a brainwashed idiot. Not saying its wrong or right....just asking for an explanation.

[methodman535]

yes typical of indians to use stats when it comes to an issue where actually THEY have a bigger problem.

india has a billion people. 40 percent are illeterate. this must mean that 400 million people are illeterate! the population of many countries combined! there is no comparison this way. This is the stupidest thing. go worship an elephant trunk.

what the fuck are you saying? go face the corner while i look for a dunce cap. comparison is always by percentages. you are an idiot.


Math isnt his strong point obviously. Anyway....you spent a lot of time finding out that more pakis than indians are under the povery line right? Percentage wise.....now I pose another question to you. What percentage of indians live on less than a dollar a day compared to pakis living on less than a dollar a day....now this is poverty to the umpteenth power.

I have no idea, but by your tone it looks like a higher percentage for indians? If this is true, i wouldnt be surprised. The distribution of wealth in India is absolutely pathetic.

But those statistics are quite telling considering the wealthy upper class makes up a very small percentage of the overall population. so its influence is minimal from a statistics standpoint.


Well that was my point there....that if you could give misery a scale of 1 to 10...with 10 being the worse a human being could suffer and still stay alive and 1 being what a happy go lucky, healthy sane and active middle or upper middle class person expeiences, then I think there might be more 10s per capita in india than in pakistan. So the distribution of wealth Im saying is probably more unfair in india...and over the long term it might cause india more harm and in the long run may produce healthier, happier and more productive pakis(assuming things pick up in pakistan in the next 20 years). The World bank I think projected growth of 5.5% for pakistan in 2004.

[paulie walnuts]

i dont know what religion has to do with anything, im not making that argument. well, actually it probably directly affects the piss-poor literacy rates in pakistan. india's are already bad, but 71% of pakistani women are illiterate. that is probably a result of religion.

india has the 4th largest GDP in the world, 2nd largest population. that makes pretty good sense. only 2 places off. Pakistan has the worlds 7 largest population, yet its GDP is 27th.

how is outsourcing "getting lucky"? i'd like to hear this one. higher education in india is almost unrivaled. its a natural result. and yeah, obviously the lower cost of labor is the reason. but there are PLENTY of other countries that would take much lower salaries. theres a reason india is at the top right now.


I doubt India has the 4th largest GDP. Here is what I think the GDPs are off the top of my head in descending size---USA>JAPAN>Germany>UK>China>Italy>France> and then maybe Brazil, India, and a few others.

Outsourcing is getting lucky because a tremendous amount of business is being thrown the way of india from countries that are bursting with money that has been built up steadily since the industrial revolution. Its instant cash, India does not have to invest in R&D, marketing, manufacturing trial and error..what happens is a foreign company brings their grunt work to India and pays in cold hard cash, its amost like striking oil in a way. Because life is so cheap in India....well you get the picture.

Now...compare this with china...china took a much more complicated route, it was much harder to set themselves up as the workshop of the G7 and to this day they bring in multiple times more income and foreign exchange and income than india does through IT outsourcing.

Anyways....what does religion have to do with anything? Im not sure...thats what I was asking Adrenaline when he made the statement that Islam sent pakistan into the dark ages and india into the stars. Well...Im just asking for a comprehensive analysis from him or anyone for that statement because honestly, just by itself it sounds like its coming from a brainwashed idiot. Not saying its wrong or right....just asking for an explanation.

1 World $ 49,000,000,000,000
2 United States $ 10,450,000,000,000
3 China $ 5,989,000,000,000
4 Japan $ 3,651,000,000,000
5 India $ 2,664,000,000,000

World doesnt count.

As far as the western world companies striking it rich.....how did they strike it rich? they are products of countries and economies that DIRECTLY benefited from strangleholding and exploiting countries like India for hundreds of years. look at indian people, they are highly intelligent (smartest in the world according to the Economist), yet the country is so poor. their system was fucked up beyond repair by the british. only now is it finally starting to mend. This past 50 years has been a recovery period. The next 50 years is gonna turn some heads.

[paulie walnuts]

Well that was my point there....that if you could give misery a scale of 1 to 10...with 10 being the worse a human being could suffer and still stay alive and 1 being what a happy go lucky, healthy sane and active middle or upper middle class person expeiences, then I think there might be more 10s per capita in india than in pakistan. So the distribution of wealth Im saying is probably more unfair in india...and over the long term it might cause india more harm and in the long run may produce healthier, happier and more productive pakis(assuming things pick up in pakistan in the next 20 years). The World bank I think projected growth of 5.5% for pakistan in 2004.

I agree with you on the first part. But not on the prediction. The level of wealth is increasing at all levels of the spectrum. India has always worked by trickle down effect. the upper class is filhty rich right now. the middle class is rapidly growing. next comes the poverty-stricken. as i said, the future is very bright. india's growth rate was 6.7%, and a projected 9% in the future. more money will fix the infrastructure, not hurt it.

[methodman535]

i dont know what religion has to do with anything, im not making that argument. well, actually it probably directly affects the piss-poor literacy rates in pakistan. india's are already bad, but 71% of pakistani women are illiterate. that is probably a result of religion.

india has the 4th largest GDP in the world, 2nd largest population. that makes pretty good sense. only 2 places off. Pakistan has the worlds 7 largest population, yet its GDP is 27th.

how is outsourcing "getting lucky"? i'd like to hear this one. higher education in india is almost unrivaled. its a natural result. and yeah, obviously the lower cost of labor is the reason. but there are PLENTY of other countries that would take much lower salaries. theres a reason india is at the top right now.


I doubt India has the 4th largest GDP. Here is what I think the GDPs are off the top of my head in descending size---USA>JAPAN>Germany>UK>China>Italy>France> and then maybe Brazil, India, and a few others.

Outsourcing is getting lucky because a tremendous amount of business is being thrown the way of india from countries that are bursting with money that has been built up steadily since the industrial revolution. Its instant cash, India does not have to invest in R&D, marketing, manufacturing trial and error..what happens is a foreign company brings their grunt work to India and pays in cold hard cash, its amost like striking oil in a way. Because life is so cheap in India....well you get the picture.

Now...compare this with china...china took a much more complicated route, it was much harder to set themselves up as the workshop of the G7 and to this day they bring in multiple times more income and foreign exchange and income than india does through IT outsourcing.

Anyways....what does religion have to do with anything? Im not sure...thats what I was asking Adrenaline when he made the statement that Islam sent pakistan into the dark ages and india into the stars. Well...Im just asking for a comprehensive analysis from him or anyone for that statement because honestly, just by itself it sounds like its coming from a brainwashed idiot. Not saying its wrong or right....just asking for an explanation.

1 World $ 49,000,000,000,000
2 United States $ 10,450,000,000,000
3 China $ 5,989,000,000,000
4 Japan $ 3,651,000,000,000
5 India $ 2,664,000,000,000

World doesnt count.

As far as the western world companies striking it rich.....how did they strike it rich? they are products of countries and economies that DIRECTLY benefited from strangleholding and exploiting countries like India for hundreds of years. look at indian people, they are highly intelligent (smartest in the world according to the Economist), yet the country is so poor. their system was fucked up beyond repair by the british. only now is it finally starting to mend. This past 50 years has been a recovery period. The next 50 years is gonna turn some heads.

These GNP figures I dont buy. Last time I checked India had a GNP equal to Italy, France UK etc. If you look at things like Industrial production, production of Iron and Steel, Value added my manufacture and assembly I think China and India will be a fraction the size of Japan. Look at the number of automobiles per 1000 people. The number of TV sets per 1000 people or even aggregate. When it comes to material good produced by factories....India is very low down there. And the average IQ of an indian was 82 the last article that I read. The average IQ of an iraqi was 87 from what I recall. The average IQ of a chinese was 105 and that of a Japanese 107 off the top of my head. I cant imagine how the Economist says Indians are the smartest in the world....where is this article I would like to see it.

And as far as the wealth of the western nations....yes it built up partly due to exploiting other countries but dont forget, during WW2 pretty much everything in Europe was destroyed. The way the europeans built up was just by having an educated and well trained industrial and service sector oriented work force that just reconstructed the model that was smashed by the war...there wasnt much exploitation there. THe surplus capital created after WW2 was a result of the efficient use of machines and later computers to an extent, this increased the productivity of their labor force and created a huge surplust of wealth.....part of this wealth is reaching out to india in the outsourcing field...cold hard cash.

[paulie walnuts]

These GNP figures I dont buy. Last time I checked India had a GNP equal to Italy, France UK etc. If you look at things like Industrial production, production of Iron and Steel, Value added my manufacture and assembly I think China and India will be a fraction the size of Japan. Look at the number of automobiles per 1000 people. The number of TV sets per 1000 people or even aggregate. When it comes to material good produced by factories....India is very low down there. And the average IQ of an indian was 82 the last article that I read. The average IQ of an iraqi was 87 from what I recall. The average IQ of a chinese was 105 and that of a Japanese 107 off the top of my head. I cant imagine how the Economist says Indians are the smartest in the world....where is this article I would like to see it.

And as far as the wealth of the western nations....yes it built up partly due to exploiting other countries but dont forget, during WW2 pretty much everything in Europe was destroyed. The way the europeans built up was just by having an educated and well trained industrial and service sector oriented work force that just reconstructed the model that was smashed by the war...there wasnt much exploitation there. THe surplus capital created after WW2 was a result of the efficient use of machines and later computers to an extent, this increased the productivity of their labor force and created a huge surplust of wealth.....part of this wealth is reaching out to india in the outsourcing field...cold hard cash.

Well, I dont know what to tell you, i didnt pull them out of my ass. As far as the average IQ thing, if you are correct then that tells you how useless an IQ score is. without oil, iraq (as well as the rest of the mideast) would be bigger shitholes than india or pak. look around, its indians at the top of all the math and science contests, its indians overpopulating Ivy League schools, its indians that have the highest per capita income out of any ethnic group in America. indians are smart ass people. perhaps the key to your stat is the higher amount of unlocked potential in an indian villager with no education, who brings the IQ average down. sort of like the logic behind a lamborghini being useless without a $5 starter mechanism. i just searched the Economist website and couldnt find anything. of all people, i heard this from a muslim iranian. an economist named mohammad kaviani was lecturing at a summer program i went to at indiana university a few years ago, and he held up an issue of the Economist and said that they had concluded Indians to be the smartest people, using some complex criteria, who knows what.

Ok I understand that India is certainly benefitting from western cash, but i dont see how this is luck. why the hell isnt anyone else getting lucky (save china)???

[aliG]

what the fuck are you saying? go face the corner while i look for a dunce cap. comparison is always by percentages. you are an idiot.

what am I saying? that India has a much larger problem when you convert those percentages into numbers. real raw data. Do you deny that queefy? its a simple yes or no answer.

[aliG]

Math isnt his strong point obviously.

nope...actually its simple. do the math yourself.

population of india = 1 billion.
illeteracy percentage = 40%
how many is that out of a billion? 400 million people.

thats more then 2 and a half times the population of Pakistan. Im trying to make a point here...stay with me.

[paulie walnuts]

what the fuck are you saying? go face the corner while i look for a dunce cap. comparison is always by percentages. you are an idiot.

what am I saying? that India has a much larger problem when you convert those percentages into numbers. real raw data. Do you deny that queefy? its a simple yes or no answer.

great logic einstein. lets use your genius logic for a second. if india has 400 million illiterate citizens, then they have 600 million literate citizens, right? HOLY SHIT, i guess india is twice as literate as the United States!!!! AMAZING

comparisons are always percentages. do i need to repeat this again?

[aliG]

what the fuck are you saying? go face the corner while i look for a dunce cap. comparison is always by percentages. you are an idiot.

what am I saying? that India has a much larger problem when you convert those percentages into numbers. real raw data. Do you deny that queefy? its a simple yes or no answer.

great logic einstein. lets use your genius logic for a second. if india has 400 million illiterate citizens, then they have 600 million literate citizens, right? HOLY SHIT, i guess india is twice as literate as the United States!!!! AMAZING

comparisons are always percentages. do i need to repeat this again?

That doesnt mean India is twice as literate, dear queefy. It simply means that there are more people in numbers that know how to read and write then in the United states. Raw data is Raw data, its as simple as that.

[paulie walnuts]

what the fuck are you saying? go face the corner while i look for a dunce cap. comparison is always by percentages. you are an idiot.

what am I saying? that India has a much larger problem when you convert those percentages into numbers. real raw data. Do you deny that queefy? its a simple yes or no answer.

great logic einstein. lets use your genius logic for a second. if india has 400 million illiterate citizens, then they have 600 million literate citizens, right? HOLY SHIT, i guess india is twice as literate as the United States!!!! AMAZING

comparisons are always percentages. do i need to repeat this again?

That doesnt mean India is twice as literate, dear queefy. It simply means that there are more people in numbers that know how to read and write then in the United states. Raw data is Raw data, its as simple as that.

great. aggregate data is USELESS. without context, it means nothing. per capita gives it context. how is this not registering, my al-takiya perpetrating mullah hater?

[aliG]

great. aggregate data is USELESS. without context, it means nothing. per capita gives it context. how is this not registering, my al-takiya perpetrating mullah hater?

never said it was useless. you did. I simply stated, that it no more relevant then raw data, since the base stems from it.

[t-tac]

:arrow:

[Hindu_Nutcase]

Some significant material indicating that Britain screwed India real bad. Of course it is biased:

Yes, they did impoverish India: according to British records, one million Indians died of famine between 1800 and 1825, 4 million between 1825 and 1850, 5 million between 1850 and 1875 and 15 million between 1875 and 1900. Thus 25 million Indians died in 100 years! (Since Independence, there has been no such famines, a record of which India should be proud.)

(author: Francois Gautier, a serious indophile)



Inoculation against smallpox using cowpox was demonstrated by Edward Jenner in 1798 and it became a part of Western medicine by 1840. No sooner did that happen that the British in India banned the older method of vaccination, without making certain that sufficient number of inoculators in the new technique existed. Smallpox in India became a greater scourge than before.

India's technology was flourishing before the British. It has been estimated that India's share of world trade in 1800 was about 20 percent (equal to America's share of world trade in 2000). The historian Ruttonjee Wadia says that ships built at Mumbai in its heyday were 'vastly superior to anything built anywhere else in the world.' According to Dharampal, there were 10,000 iron and steel furnaces operating in the eighteenth century India.

The story of the destruction of India's textile industry by the British is too well known to need repeating. The British became masters of India at a very opportune time. First, they cut off India's export markets. Soon the innovations of the dawning industrial revolution gave their products a cost advantage that became permanent in the absence of new investments to upgrade Indian factories.

(Author: Subhash Kak, Professor at Louisiana State University)

[methodman535]

As in regards to Islamic movements in Pakistan, you can compare all you want of what the Golden Age of Islam contributed to society, and the truth of the matter is the islamic movements in Pakistan hinder a possibility to ever get out of the hell Pakistan is in. Think about it, if anyone does say Pakistan is well off... you have to check up on that because the struggle over there just to survive is unimaginable. India however has the potential within its democracy because its govt is not theological, it has the strength to feed its own people first of all, which is most important while in the face of reality Pakistan does not.


Uhmmm....can you back that up by fact? How about you grab the following figures off the net for us for india and pakistan:

1. The number of people per 1000 population who survive on less than a dollar a day.
2. The number of people per 1000 population who are estimated by some neutral international agency to be severely malnourished.
3. The number of deaths per 1000 population who die of malnourishment as the primary cause of death.
4. The number of homeless people per 1000 population.


I doubt india will be that far ahead of pakistan...if its not BEHIND that is....

[Reaper]

Its a fact of life that Islamic and Islamic Governments stagnate the progress of a country, which can be seen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, just about every African Muslim country as well as most of the middle eastern countries.

- end of discussion -

[princeofkolkata]

It has the 4th largest GDP in the world, behind only the US, China, and Japan.
that GDP is GDP (PPP) yaar..which is purchasing power parity..its got nothing to do with wealth of a nation, it just means either that country produce a lot or has big population...the real GDP is GDP (nominal).under that India is 12th in the world..whereas is pakistan is 48th...well we only have US, Canada, UK, Japan, S Korea and EU nations above us so things looking pretty good!

[methodman535]

Uhmmm....can you back that up by fact? How about you grab the following figures off the net for us for india and pakistan:

1. The number of people per 1000 population who survive on less than a dollar a day.
2. The number of people per 1000 population who are estimated by some neutral international agency to be severely malnourished.
3. The number of deaths per 1000 population who die of malnourishment as the primary cause of death.
4. The number of homeless people per 1000 population.


I doubt india will be that far ahead of pakistan...if its not BEHIND that is....

Still waiting on these figures. Lets see some solid statistics that prove India is "light years ahead of Pakistan" due to not "imitating arabs". http://home.comcast.net/~methodman535/ps/yahoo_snicker.gif

[tangents]

I think Pakistan has those percentages because the there is a small elite that rule while others get screwed and have to make a living selling cheap shit on the streets. Each country has their own problems and strengths; Because India has more diversity and resources they are more on par for the global economy.... But global economy is the past.....time for the universal Economy....
Space Colonies!!!!!!