Ahmadi muslims

[miss_khan]

ok ppl for all the muslims out there... wot do u lot think of ahmadi muslims.. im jus having a convo wit a friend and we are discussing them.. btw by top scholars they are declared kaffirs and wen u talk to one they talk as if they r the right type of muslim... can u please discuss this and this way i could learn more too...

[*Alina*]

i have an ahmadi friend...

but we dont talk abt religion much
im shia btw

[nabilah18]

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community claims that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet (albeit a "non-law-bearing" one) and that mainstream Muslims who reject his message are guilty of disbelief.

[miss_khan]

i have an ahmadi friend...

but we dont talk abt religion much
im shia btw


o ryt.. im sunni

[Salariz]

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community claims that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet (albeit a "non-law-bearing" one) and that mainstream Muslims who reject his message are guilty of disbelief.

:yes:

[imdaman99]

i have an ahmadi friend...

but we dont talk abt religion much
im shia btw
:kiss:

[nvthis]

useless junk, this thread will turn into a flame war sooner or later.

[methodman535]

They are just a sect that has a little bit of a radical belief which is why they are shunned by "orthodox" islamic scholars. Kinda like Agha Khanis are shunned too cuz they are "different".

[miss_khan]

useless junk, this thread will turn into a flame war sooner or later.


xcuse u this is not useless junk itz about diff type of muslims now if ppl r immature enuf to start a e war that aint my fault.

[*Alina*]

:kiss:
:Oops:

[Salariz]

i think sanna aka bheegyhotheray..is an ahmadey

[miss_khan]

i think sanna aka bheegyhotheray..is an ahmadey


i dunno who that is :sarb:

[Salariz]

i dunno who that is :sarb:

she posts once in a while...but if u wanna find her..just search for that username

[asian_guy_786]

ahmadi is made up bullshit

[Rizla]

i have an ahmadi friend...

but we dont talk abt religion much
im shia btw

:eek: :wavey:

[The Only One]

ok ppl for all the muslims out there... wot do u lot think of ahmadi muslims.. im jus having a convo wit a friend and we are discussing them.. btw by top scholars they are declared kaffirs and wen u talk to one they talk as if they r the right type of muslim... can u please discuss this and this way i could learn more too...
well I have a question for you, Are ahmadis another name for ISmailis? Beause they have been declared kafir by top scholars.

[methodman535]

she posts once in a while...but if u wanna find her..just search for that username

She doesnt like giving lectures on ahmadiyyat it drives her nuts. Quit passin her name around like some maulani. She doesnt want to.

[FiStiK]

They are just a sect that has a little bit of a radical belief which is why they are shunned by "orthodox" islamic scholars. Kinda like Agha Khanis are shunned too cuz they are "different".

Not different, just um, wrong.

*puts on flame suit*

[methodman535]

well I have a question for you, Are ahmadis another name for ISmailis? Beause they have been declared kafir by top scholars.

Two completely different sects. And these "top scholars" are saudi wahabi types. I dont think The Iranian Shia scholars have declared either of those two sects kafirs but I could be wrong. :dunno:

[Salariz]

She doesnt like giving lectures on ahmadiyyat it drives her nuts. Quit passin her name around like some maulani. She doesnt want to.

i didnt know...

[miss_khan]

she posts once in a while...but if u wanna find her..just search for that username

itz cool hun.. i dont wanna find her jus was askin.... and to methodman, chill i wernt gna ask abt her neway :rolleyes: :)

[methodman535]

Not different, just um, wrong.

*puts on flame suit*

Sprays canned skunk juice under your collar.

[methodman535]

i didnt know...

I didnt either but my guess is probably right. :D

[rizzy_4_u]

ahmadi muslims .. u mean sunnis ..?

[The Only One]

Two completely different sects. And these "top scholars" are saudi wahabi types. I dont think The Iranian Shia scholars have declared either of those two sects kafirs but I could be wrong. :dunno:
You have a point..can't trust those wahabis lol

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

This must be like the 10th thread i've come across bout ahmedis.

They are not muslims, full stop, nothing else to say, they know why they have been shunned, all i know is that sunnis, wahabees, and shias are muslims, their the only sects i know of which are recognized as muslims, ahmedis are not even allowed to do hajj, they are not muslims, they are ahmedis!
Obviously theres more to just saying they are not muslim, but thats up to yourselves to find out, i'm dun explaining it!

Ahmedis=not muslim !

Dats all there is to it

[Street_Scholar]

AHMADIS ARE NOT CONSIDERED MUSLIMS - They don't believe in the last Prophet!

[lili420]

Two completely different sects. And these "top scholars" are saudi wahabi types. I dont think The Iranian Shia scholars have declared either of those two sects kafirs but I could be wrong. :dunno:
its pretty common sense that ahmadis are not muslim. it doesnt really tak a scholar to figure that out. if you dont believe in the prophet muhammad pbuh as the last prophet of God, you arent a muslim. thats a abasic article of faith.

what pisses me off about ahmadis is not that they arent muslim, i cant force them to believe or not, but i get pissed when they call themselves muslim. i think they need to accept that they are not muslim, and therfore not call tehmselves "ahmadi muslims"

[Logical_Uzi]

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was actually hired by the british goverment to cause problems within the muslim community in India at that time, he claimed to be a prophet and died a painful death

But a message to the mainstream muslims we're already told of such frauds

Holy Prophet Mohammed SAW said:
"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals),
each of whom will claim to be a prophet,
But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me."
(Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol 2 p.45)

They also have channel on sky digital which is also funded by the british goverment their homebase is setup in manchester.

[miss_khan]

ahmadi muslims .. u mean sunnis ..?

no they r completely different to sunnis... they re also kald wahabis/qaidianis

[miss_khan]

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was actually hired by the british goverment to cause problems within the muslim community in India at that time, he claimed to be a prophet and died a painful death

But a message to the mainstream muslims we're already told of such frauds

Holy Prophet Mohammed SAW said:
"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals),
each of whom will claim to be a prophet,
But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me."
(Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol 2 p.45)

They also have channel on sky digital which is also funded by the british goverment their homebase is setup in manchester.






i totally agree wit u... and their channel is called MTA

[methodman535]

its pretty common sense that ahmadis are not muslim. it doesnt really tak a scholar to figure that out. if you dont believe in the prophet muhammad pbuh as the last prophet of God, you arent a muslim. thats a abasic article of faith.

what pisses me off about ahmadis is not that they arent muslim, i cant force them to believe or not, but i get pissed when they call themselves muslim. i think they need to accept that they are not muslim, and therfore not call tehmselves "ahmadi muslims"


Wait wait..didnt they get out of that with a loophole saying mirza whatsizname was actually christ?

[Street_Scholar]

Here is a thread I made about them along time ago. Please see this thread to learn more about Ahmadis!

http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=104246

[methodman535]

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was actually hired by the british goverment to cause problems within the muslim community in India at that time, he claimed to be a prophet and died a painful death

But a message to the mainstream muslims we're already told of such frauds

Holy Prophet Mohammed SAW said:
"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals),
each of whom will claim to be a prophet,
But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me."
(Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol 2 p.45)

They also have channel on sky digital which is also funded by the british goverment their homebase is setup in manchester.


But they deny this and say they are self funded. I think I asked one or two about this.

[lili420]

Wait wait..didnt they get out of that with a loophole saying mirza whatsizname was actually christ?
errmmmm...no. and even if they said that, it doesnt make any sense and is bs.

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

no they r completely different to sunnis... they re also kald wahabis/qaidianis

WHAT? They are not called wahabis ?????
Hell no wahabis and ahmedis is not da same ting, trust me!
Where you gettin ya sources from ?

[FiStiK]

Sprays canned skunk juice under your collar.

Damn. Next time, I will wear a flame retardant AND a skunk retardant suit.

[methodman535]

i totally agree wit u... and their channel is called MTA

If you knew all this why were u acting all innocent and curious asking about ahmadis? You know them inside out already! What you tryin to pull haaaan?

[miss_khan]

This must be like the 10th thread i've come across bout ahmedis.

They are not muslims, full stop, nothing else to say, they know why they have been shunned, all i know is that sunnis, wahabees, and shias are muslims, their the only sects i know of which are recognized as muslims, ahmedis are not even allowed to do hajj, they are not muslims, they are ahmedis!
Obviously theres more to just saying they are not muslim, but thats up to yourselves to find out, i'm dun explaining it!

Ahmedis=not muslim !

Dats all there is to it


whoa sorry i asked.. :rolleyes:

[miss_khan]

If you knew all this why were u acting all innocent and curious asking about ahmadis? You know them inside out already! What you tryin to pull haaaan?


hold up.. im not here to argue... how does mean im tryna b all innocent all i know is they got a channel and a few other stuff i wanted sum views if u wanna carry on like dis then u can get out the thread.. the same way u heard of zee tv and bbc ...newayz

[miss_khan]

WHAT? They are not called wahabis ?????
Hell no wahabis and ahmedis is not da same ting, trust me!
Where you gettin ya sources from ?


ppl told me that

[methodman535]

I personally dont care who they think mirza is or was. My question is what harm are they doing to people? I mean what is the danger that people see in their sect. The only problem I can see is that ahmadis and ismailis might plan and plot together and discriminate against the masses...but why are you people getting so worked up about their personal deep down religious beliefs for so passionately?

[Street_Scholar]

whoa sorry i asked.. :rolleyes:


MIss Khan, if you're a Ahmadi, check my thread out:

http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=104246

[Riddemz]

well i presonally dont agree with their beliefs
but if thats what they want to believe then its fine by me

as long as they dont go around converting people, happened to my friend once
he took a taxi and the cab driver was an ahmadi that tried to convert him
if people want to follow their beliefs then they'll choose to on their own

[The Anti Desi]

Its something beyond the Quran. A random person declared himself as a prophet, yet the Quran claims none come after Muhammed pbuh.

[methodman535]

errmmmm...no. and even if they said that, it doesnt make any sense and is bs.

Yeah it makes sense cuz if jesus came BACK as mirza then mirza wasnt a new prophet he was an older one resurrected or reincarnated or whatever. It makes sense logically.

[miss_khan]

MIss Khan, if you're a Ahmadi, check my thread out:

http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=104246


hey thx for the thread il read the stuff btw im sunni..

[Street_Scholar]

I personally dont care who they think mirza is or was. My question is what harm are they doing to people? I mean what is the danger that people see in their sect. The only problem I can see is that ahmadis and ismailis might plan and plot together and discriminate against the masses...but why are you people getting so worked up about their personal deep down religious beliefs for so passionately?


Yeah, but when someone says he is the better version of the prophet Mohamed (pbuh) and he says he is a better prophet, and then says he is a Muslim, what do you suggest people should do? they've confused many people. Its not even a religion its part of a cult.

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

ppl told me that

Thats complete bullshit love trust me, if wahabees were ahmedis, sunnis wouldnt come and read namaz and do hajj behind a wahabee imaam in Saudi.

Half ma family are sunni, other half is wahabee, such a contrast as ahmedi and sunni would be conflict, but there isnt any because ahmedis arent muslims, wahabees, sunnis and shias ARE.

[Riddemz]

I personally dont care who they think mirza is or was. My question is what harm are they doing to people? I mean what is the danger that people see in their sect. The only problem I can see is that ahmadis and ismailis might plan and plot together and discriminate against the masses...but why are you people getting so worked up about their personal deep down religious beliefs for so passionately?
lol ismailis dont do that
if anything ismailis are the most peaceful type of muslims
even when we had a great empire, we let sunnis, christians, jews etc. live in peace in our kingdom, they were treated equally to ismailis

[Street_Scholar]

hey thx for the thread il read the stuff btw im sunni..


OK good, but do make sure to check the thread out.

[lili420]

I personally dont care who they think mirza is or was. My question is what harm are they doing to people? I mean what is the danger that people see in their sect. The only problem I can see is that ahmadis and ismailis might plan and plot together and discriminate against the masses...but why are you people getting so worked up about their personal deep down religious beliefs for so passionately?
cuz they call themselves muslims. they act like their teachings that that mirza ahmed dude made up are islamic, which is bs. thats about it, other than that, their just like any other non muslim.

[methodman535]

well i presonally dont agree with their beliefs
but if thats what they want to believe then its fine by me

as long as they dont go around converting people, happened to my friend once
he took a taxi and the cab driver was an ahmadi that tried to convert him
if people want to follow their beliefs then they'll choose to on their own

Why do you care if they try to convert people. I mean...they arent converting under the sword are they? And arent you Ismaili...its ironic to see you act so intolerant of a fellow "outcaste sect" so to speak.

[miss_khan]

I personally dont care who they think mirza is or was. My question is what harm are they doing to people? I mean what is the danger that people see in their sect. The only problem I can see is that ahmadis and ismailis might plan and plot together and discriminate against the masses...but why are you people getting so worked up about their personal deep down religious beliefs for so passionately?


i am a MUSLIM.. im not shootin out ahmadis i jus wanna know more ... is dat causin harm then to ne1.. NO.. causin harm to u.. NO.. seems to me ur the one gettin worked up here not others..

[The Anti Desi]

This must be like the 10th thread i've come across bout ahmedis.

They are not muslims, full stop, nothing else to say, they know why they have been shunned, all i know is that sunnis, wahabees, and shias are muslims, their the only sects i know of which are recognized as muslims, ahmedis are not even allowed to do hajj, they are not muslims, they are ahmedis!
Obviously theres more to just saying they are not muslim, but thats up to yourselves to find out, i'm dun explaining it!

Ahmedis=not muslim !

Dats all there is to it
How do you come to that conclusion???

[methodman535]

cuz they call themselves muslims. they act like their teachings that that mirza ahmed dude made up are islamic, which is bs. thats about it, other than that, their just like any other non muslim.

No people are getting wayyyyy wayy too worked up over them. I mean if they said that about their mirza guy so what...the shias say stuff about ali that ticks off sunnis but is it cuz ahmadis are newbies and small in number that they attract so much wrath? It doesnt add up.

[bora]

by best mate is ahmadi

i usd 2 diss him about it
he brought in literature about ahmadis

bollocks but still if they call themselves muslim its up 2 them
some of em act more religious than us sunnis and shias

[goofy_phoofy]

ahmadi muslims arent muslim becase they dont believe in our prophet saw as the last one , they believe in imam mehdi beeing the last one, n he died in the toilet . nyhow now they r too busy praising their khalifa in england. and all of this is fine by me.. as long as they didnt keep claiming to be the only right kinds of muslims and tryna convince everyone to convert :anger: :neutral: im sunni n true like some1 said, wahabee, sunni and shia are the ones tht are considered the real muslims. ok bye :wavey:

[Riddemz]

Why do you care if they try to convert people. I mean...they arent converting under the sword are they? And arent you Ismaili...its ironic to see you act so intolerant of a fellow "outcaste sect" so to speak.
how the f^ck did you come up with that

i just said i dont mind them
and now your saying im intolerant?

i dont like anybody trying to convert anybody
if people want to convert theyll do it on their own

[The Anti Desi]

no they r completely different to sunnis... they re also kald wahabis/qaidianis
Qaidani is a term coined by Sunnis/Shias in comparison to the Ahmadis. They don't have the same beliefs, but because Sunnis/Shia see them heretics, they declare them under that name.

[stylo_4444]

ok ppl for all the muslims out there... wot do u lot think of ahmadi muslims.. im jus having a convo wit a friend and we are discussing them.. btw by top scholars they are declared kaffirs and wen u talk to one they talk as if they r the right type of muslim... can u please discuss this and this way i could learn more too...
ahmadi muslims...they're kinda loooow on my "issues i need to deal with" list for the moment

:neutral:

[methodman535]

i am a MUSLIM.. im not shootin out ahmadis i jus wanna know more ... is dat causin harm then to ne1.. NO.. causin harm to u.. NO.. seems to me ur the one gettin worked up here not others..


Im not getting worked up enough to start screamin whose not a muslim for whatever reason Im just calmly askin questions and Im not even religious at all. So I dont think Im getting worked up about them causin any harm to me Im just freaked out at how maniacal everyone is towards ahmadis and ismailis..Im askin WHY thats all.

[dopekhor]

Ahmadis muslims? they arent muslims! so whats the point of discussions then?

[miss_khan]

Thats complete bullshit love trust me, if wahabees were ahmedis, sunnis wouldnt come and read namaz and do hajj behind a wahabee imaam in Saudi.

Half ma family are sunni, other half is wahabee, such a contrast as ahmedi and sunni would be conflict, but there isnt any because ahmedis arent muslims, wahabees, sunnis and shias ARE.


urm oopzy sorry ma bad...ur ryt...wahabis are not ahmadis i jus asked ma dad too :)

[methodman535]

how the f^ck did you come up with that

i just said i dont mind them
and now your saying im intolerant?

i dont like anybody trying to convert anybody
if people want to convert theyll do it on their own

Yeah but if someone tries to convert them then the other person will or will not convert DEPENDING ON IF THEY WANT TO. so theres absolutely no reason for you to worry cuz nothing is being forced...its all free will.

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

How do you come to that conclusion???

Like i said its what i know and all 3 of them sects are allowed to do hajj, not ahmedis, and also like i mentioned i'm not gonna bother going into it, jus ask someone or search it on google etc.

And can people please stop getting Ahmedis confused with ismailis and wahabees.

As far as i know ismaili are another form of shias, and wahabees are a different thing altogether!

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

urm oopzy sorry ma bad...ur ryt...wahabis are not ahmadis i jus asked ma dad too :)

:) Its okay, u so fine that it dont even matter that u got it wrong, lol.
:wavey: Heeeey

[miss_khan]

IM AHMADI and ahmadis rock lol

ok .. ppl r open to their opinions :neutral:

[mamamia!]

different schools of thought, different principles.

if i'm not wrong, it's a sin to call anyone who believe in one god and the prophet mohammad a kaffir.

[vaatyaar]

Wow there is a lot of ignorance in this thread.

first, ahmadis are realy Qadianis. They took up the name Ahmadi to claim that they are descendants of Prophet Muhammad SAW. So please, call them Qadianis.

secondly, it is haraam to call others non-muslims / claim they will go to hell / etc etc, even if you truly believe they are deviant from the right path. Allah SWT is the one to decide who is a true muslim and who is not. Please refrain from doing such, no matter how much you dislike qadianis.

thirdly, The Holy Prophet SAW has said, by way of hadiths, that sects/division is wrong. It is written in the Qu'ran as well, though I do not have the verses right now. Hence, whether you are Sunni, Shia, etc.. call yourself muslim if you believe in Allah SWT and the Prophet SAW as His Last Messenger. Do not claim yourself Sunni or Hanafi or Wahabi, etc etc. Yes, it is too late to make any changes to the overall divisions as they have been in place for many centuries, but you will be judged in your own merit.

May Allah SWT help us all to stay on the right path.

[Riddemz]

Yeah but if someone tries to convert them then the other person will or will not convert DEPENDING ON IF THEY WANT TO. so theres absolutely no reason for you to worry cuz nothing is being forced...its all free will.
its still not right and its annoying as hell

people always coming and trying to convert me
i just want them to leave me alone

just have a place where i can inform myself about the religion if i feel like converting
theres no need of pressing your own beliefs on somebody

[lili420]

No people are getting wayyyyy wayy too worked up over them. I mean if they said that about their mirza guy so what...the shias say stuff about ali that ticks off sunnis but is it cuz ahmadis are newbies and small in number that they attract so much wrath? It doesnt add up.
nooooo. cuz shias are still muslim, they still believe in the basic stuff like the holy prophet pbuh being the last prophet. ahmadis are not muslim, so i guess thats why it pisses people off more. but, i think ur refering to how ppl handle their anger lol. i mean i really hate it when ahmadis claim to be muslim, but you dont see me fighting or harming them.

[miss_khan]

:) Its okay, u so fine that it dont even matter that u got it wrong, lol.
:wavey: Heeeey



:kekeke: aww so cute :) u fine too :wavey:

[methodman535]

nooooo. cuz shias are still muslim, they still believe in the basic stuff like the holy prophet pbuh being the last prophet. ahmadis are not muslim, so i guess thats why it pisses people off more. but, i think ur refering to how ppl handle their anger lol. i mean i really hate it when ahmadis claim to be muslim, but you dont see me fighting or harming them.


All this is BS anyway...just a bunch of bogus sects squabbling among each other. Im an atheist. Bye. :D

[vaatyaar]

lest You Commit A Grave Sin, Please Stop Dictating Who Is Muslim And Who Is Not. That Is For Allah Swt To Decide. Now Stfu.

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

Wow there is a lot of ignorance in this thread.

first, ahmadis are realy Qadianis. They took up the name Ahmadi to claim that they are descendants of Prophet Muhammad SAW. So please, call them Qadianis.

secondly, it is haraam to call others non-muslims / claim they will go to hell / etc etc, even if you truly believe they are deviant from the right path. Allah SWT is the one to decide who is a true muslim and who is not. Please refrain from doing such, no matter how much you dislike qadianis.
thirdly, The Holy Prophet SAW has said, by way of hadiths, that sects/division is wrong. It is written in the Qu'ran as well, though I do not have the verses right now. Hence, whether you are Sunni, Shia, etc.. call yourself muslim if you believe in Allah SWT and the Prophet SAW as His Last Messenger. Do not claim yourself Sunni or Hanafi or Wahabi, etc etc. Yes, it is too late to make any changes to the overall divisions as they have been in place for many centuries, but you will be judged in your own merit.

May Allah SWT help us all to stay on the right path.


YEAH but dats the point mate, ahmedis are NOT muslims, therefore it is not wrong to call them kaffirs, i have more respect for christians, hindus, sikhs, buddhists than i do for ahmedis, cuz the ahmedi teachings are a straight mockery of our religion, i mean for fuck sake what prophet dies on a damn toilet!
Tobah!

[lili420]

different schools of thought, different principles.

if i'm not wrong, it's a sin to call anyone who believe in one god and the prophet mohammad a kaffir.
actually, anyone who believes in God and the prophet muhammed pbuh as the last prophet. thats why all the sects, sunni, shia, wahabbi and all are considered muslim. cuz they all agreee on that. so its not worng at all to call tehm non muslim. it only makes sense

[The Anti Desi]

Like i said its what i know and all 3 of them sects are allowed to do hajj, not ahmedis, and also like i mentioned i'm not gonna bother going into it, jus ask someone or search it on google etc.

And can people please stop getting Ahmedis confused with ismailis and wahabees.

As far as i know ismaili are another form of shias, and wahabees are a different thing altogether!
Thats Arabic politics making those decisions. If Arabs were truly religious, they would have declared one sect....not a multitude of thme. Arabic politics also declare that women are not allowed to do hajj without a man....and that has no Islamic basis whatsoever.

[goofy_phoofy]

different schools of thought, different principles.

if i'm not wrong, it's a sin to call anyone who believe in one god and the prophet mohammad a kaffir.
correction who believes in prophet mohammad s.a.w as the LAST prophet :)

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

:kekeke: aww so cute :) u fine too :wavey:

Let me holla at cha then, baybeee! :dance3:

[mamamia!]

ditto

now i gtg eat biryani kh :p
biryani ki bacchi. :x

[ElDiablo]

ok ppl for all the muslims out there... wot do u lot think of ahmadi muslims.. im jus having a convo wit a friend and we are discussing them.. btw by top scholars they are declared kaffirs and wen u talk to one they talk as if they r the right type of muslim... can u please discuss this and this way i could learn more too...


some ppl say that Mirza whatshisname is a prophet like figure to the ahmadis. But then an ahmadi told me thats not true but instead hes more like the Imam mehdi to them. If that is the case then no one can call them kafirs, as long as they still belive in the original Kalma. BUT this is the problem, if they go on beleiving mirza was a Imam mehdi type figure then they are wrong becuase its obvious he wasnt anything on the level imam mehdi will be. He did nothing in his life and even his death was questionable. Basically like im saying you cant go around calling them kafirs if they dont make mirza into a prophet BUT theyre in danger of falling into kufr if they carry on like this becuase soon theyll end up making the anti christ into theyre god.

Allah knows best.

[methodman535]

its still not right and its annoying as hell

people always coming and trying to convert me
i just want them to leave me alone

just have a place where i can inform myself about the religion if i feel like converting
theres no need of pressing your own beliefs on somebody


You think thats annoying? Every paki in existance is bugging the hell out of goras and kallas in america trying to convert them over to their own sect of Islam. And you are cryin cuz a sect is giving you the taste of muslims own medicine?

[lili420]

Thats Arabic politics making those decisions. If Arabs were truly religious, they would have declared one sect....not a multitude of thme. Arabic politics also declare that women are not allowed to do hajj without a man....and that has no Islamic basis whatsoever.
you actually need to stop acting like you know a lot about islam, cuz you really dont. learn the religion properly...then preach. you pisss me off. o and not cuz of what you said in this quoted post just generally :)

[reaz]

lest You Commit A Grave Sin, Please Stop Dictating Who Is Muslim And Who Is Not. That Is For Allah Swt To Decide. Now Stfu.


yep.. I dont know why we all have to be judgemental about others.. Worry about your own beliefs and faith.. Not others. Allah will judge accordingly..

[Riddemz]

You think thats annoying? Every paki in existance is bugging the hell out of goras and kallas in america trying to convert them over to their own sect of Islam. And you are cryin cuz a sect is giving you the taste of muslims own medicine?
ok and do you actually believe that i think thats right?
it doesnt matter what religion you're from, you should not go around converting people



btw. im not just talking about one sect, im talking about EVERYBODY

[bora]

basically
the way that the ahmadis came about was

british went over - saw that the muslims were 2 strong and stuck 2getha
so they got some guy MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD QADIANI to say he was the next prophet so muslims wud become divided

obviously he was rejected coz Prophet Muhammad (saw) is the last of the prophets
then he sed he was the mahdi - but was rejectd coz the mahdi comes on the arival of the dajjal
then he sed he was just revising islam for the masses
some people followed the majority dint coz they got SENSE!!!

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

Thats Arabic politics making those decisions. If Arabs were truly religious, they would have declared one sect....not a multitude of thme. Arabic politics also declare that women are not allowed to do hajj without a man....and that has no Islamic basis whatsoever.

NO actually, i've read that women are encouraged to go hajj with a male, however they can go with a group of other women, as long as they have some kind of permission from a male, even if that male is not a muslim because hajj is such an important thing in all muslims lives

[The Anti Desi]

you actually need to stop acting like you know a lot about islam, cuz you really dont. learn the religion properly...then preach. you pisss me off. o and not cuz of what you said in this quoted post just generally :)
Thats because I don't take what the scholars teach me. I only take what the Quran teaches me.

[Riddemz]

NO actually, i've read that women are encouraged to go hajj with a male, however they can go with a group of other women, as long as they have some kind of permission from a male, even if that male is not a muslim because hajj is such an important thing in all muslims lives
i dont see men needing permission from any females
what happened to equality in islam?

[ElDiablo]

YEAH but dats the point mate, ahmedis are NOT muslims, therefore it is not wrong to call them kaffirs, i have more respect for christians, hindus, sikhs, buddhists than i do for ahmedis, cuz the ahmedi teachings are a straight mockery of our religion, i mean for fuck sake what prophet dies on a damn toilet!
Tobah!


careful bro, like i said, Allah knows best. As long as they beleive in La ilaha illallaho mohammadur rasool Allah, theyre ok.
BUT BUT one thing is, they are a bit dodgy, like the nation of islam, even thier star and cresent is the wrong way round. Its like thier anti muslim.

BUT we cant call them kafirs.

my own opinion is that the ahmed mirza whatshisname was one of the prophecised 30 dajjals.

[The Anti Desi]

NO actually, i've read that women are encouraged to go hajj with a male, however they can go with a group of other women, as long as they have some kind of permission from a male, even if that male is not a muslim because hajj is such an important thing in all muslims lives
That has no Quranic basis either.

[mamamia!]

correction who believes in prophet mohammad s.a.w as the LAST prophet :)
either way my point is, it is wrong to call any person who believes in one god and the prophet mohammad, a kaffir.

[miss_khan]

:sarb:

[bora]

careful bro, like i said, Allah knows best. As long as they beleive in La ilaha illallaho mohammadur rasool Allah, theyre ok.
BUT BUT one thing is, they are a bit dodgy, like the nation of islam, even thier star and cresent is the wrong way round. Its like thier anti muslim.

BUT we cant call them kafirs.

my own opinion is that the ahmed mirza whatshisname was one of the prophecised 30 dajjals.


they dont believe in La ilaha illallaho mohammadur rasool Allah, they have another version of the shahadat

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

i dont see men needing permission from any females
what happened to equality in islam?

Theres more to the quran than just reading the odd sentence, i myself have not read the quran in english, so i'm not gonna make assumptions, but its what i've heard, as far as equality, these so called 'western' women were not even allowed to vote until a few decades ago, that wasnt the case for many muslim countries, and how many female presidents has usa had, compared to a certain muslim country!

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

That has no Quranic basis either.

Are u a Quran Hifaz?
If not u can only assume!
I'm not hifaz neither, but i know for sure ahmedis aint muslim, i mean that is what this thread is about ??? :sarb:

[ElDiablo]

That has no Quranic basis either.


hadith are also very much part of islam

your kind of ppl only differ with us on that aspect.

you have a different view on hadith to a lot of ppl and that is fine, you stick to your way we will stick to ours, but dont go around questioning how 'muslim' ppl are just becuase they differ from you and beleive in hadith.

[bora]

^ liar we say the kalima we belive that PROphet MOhammad PHUB is the last prophet

argh

this thread is gay BYE


sorry im just regurgitatin what ive heard
u shud stay and tell peopl the truth

[ElDiablo]

either way my point is, it is wrong to call any person who believes in one god and the prophet mohammad, a kaffir.


good girl.

[lili420]

Thats because I don't take what the scholars teach me. I only take what the Quran teaches me.
but the quran does say taht if u believe in God, you must believe in the prophet.

[The Anti Desi]

but the quran does say taht if u believe in God, you must believe in the prophet.
And where the heck did I reject the Prophet???

[The Anti Desi]

hadith are also very much part of islam

your kind of ppl only differ with us on that aspect.

you have a different view on hadith to a lot of ppl and that is fine, you stick to your way we will stick to ours, but dont go around questioning how 'muslim' ppl are just becuase they differ from you and beleive in hadith.
No one has found where hadith is mentioned in the Quran.

[R*E*S*P*E*C*T]

LOL. The fact of the matter is...you lot dont shut the fuck up :) How many damn times are u turds gonna rant abt ahmadis? why the fuck are u wasting ur time. At least know exactly where their beliefs stand! Most of u are talkin out of ur asses. This topic has been covered numerous times, and it goes NOWHERE.

If u dont believe what they believe then go have a parade. Just not here.

[Riddemz]

Theres more to the quran than just reading the odd sentence, i myself have not read the quran in english, so i'm not gonna make assumptions, but its what i've heard, as far as equality, these so called 'western' women were not even allowed to vote until a few decades ago, that wasnt the case for many muslim countries, and how many female presidents has usa had, compared to a certain muslim country!
why are you comparing this with western countries?

just because everybody else does something, it doesnt mean its right

they should be treating women equally because thats how it is tought in the quran

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

why are you comparing this with western countries?

just because everybody else does something, it doesnt mean its right

they should be treating women equally because thats how it is tought in the quran

I'm comparing this to the west cuz people always talk about no equality in muslim countries compared to the west, the giant of the west is usa, therefore thats why i'm comparing and saying if muslims were treating their women unequally because the religion says so, then female votes, muslim female leaders, etc would be non existent in the muslim world, thats all!

[Riddemz]

I'm comparing this to the west cuz people always talk about no equality in muslim countries compared to the west, the giant of the west is usa, therefore thats why i'm comparing and saying if muslims were treating their women unequally because the religion says so, then female votes, muslim female leaders, etc would be non existent in the muslim world, thats all!
oh ok
well i wasnt comparing to the west

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

LOL. The fact of the matter is...you lot dont shut the fuck up :) How many damn times are u turds gonna rant abt ahmadis? why the fuck are u wasting ur time. At least know exactly where their beliefs stand! Most of u are talkin out of ur asses. This topic has been covered numerous times, and it goes NOWHERE.

If u dont believe what they believe then go have a parade. Just not here.

If a person asks a question you answer it, its a forum, thats what you do, air ya opinion, yes its repetitive sometimes, but its just the way it is, and i and many on here do now where ahmedis stand, and its not on the same level as muslims, thats all!
If peole dont air their opinion in a thread which is based on what ahmedis are, then where else are they gonna go ???

[redlightnin]

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community claims that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet (albeit a "non-law-bearing" one) and that mainstream Muslims who reject his message are guilty of disbelief.
No, he wasn't a prophet, he was a 'reformer'. Where'd you hear that statement from? btw. I'm Ahmadi. Asalamuwalaikum :wavey:

[redlightnin]

This must be like the 10th thread i've come across bout ahmedis.

They are not muslims, full stop, nothing else to say, they know why they have been shunned, all i know is that sunnis, wahabees, and shias are muslims, their the only sects i know of which are recognized as muslims, ahmedis are not even allowed to do hajj, they are not muslims, they are ahmedis!
Obviously theres more to just saying they are not muslim, but thats up to yourselves to find out, i'm dun explaining it!

Ahmedis=not muslim !

Dats all there is to it


what r u talkin bout man? We're not allowed to do Hajj? where did you get that from? :no:

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

what r u talkin bout man? We're not allowed to do Hajj? where did you get that from? :no:

Then Ahmadis do not perform Hajj because of restrictions but spend thousands of ruppees to go to London to attend Jalsa Salana. A government employee cannot leave the country without official permission. But an Ahmad government servant attend Jalsa abroad by obtaining fake passports and by providing false informations, they even go to Qadian to attend the Jalsa Salana. They do not care for any restrictions to attend this Jalsa. in other words they prove by their actions that as compare to Hajj, Jalsa is more important.

I got the above quote from this site http://ahmedi.org/eart/ThoseWhoQuit?page=4

Ahmedis are not allowed to do hajj, its the truth, ask ya elders, its a common fact, even wikipedia got the lowdown, lol, check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_Muslim_Community

[~pakiprincess~]

hmmmmmmmmmmm intersting........ I have a friend who;s dad is ahmadi and mom is shia.. I'm sunni and honestly I cud care less what cast she is from I'm not her friend cuz of what she follows. I have heard that your not supposed to have ahmadi friends but I think thats b.s if they are not converting u to their beliefs then whats the problem? I doubt ppl these days become friends with other just so they can convert them to follow their ways of religon, not that ne of what I said made sense.. just thought I put in my two cents..

[mr ajnabi]

wow* IM ON THE FORUMZ :dance3:

lol ... k

Asalaam '

Bismillah ,,,

PEACE TO THE WHOLE ummah!

(I am a muslim who is trying ' brfore pointing fingers at the ahmaddis' what about us !!! ARE WE FOLLOWING ALLAHS COMMANDMENTS??? )


O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QUR'AN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me direcly. BE MY WITNESS O ALLAH THAT I HAVE CONVEYED YOUR MESSAGE TO YOUR PEOPLE."


(Prophet Muhammad P.b.u.h)

Then we get some muppet named Mirza who claims to be a prophet ' HE COMPLETELY HAS LOST THE PLOT !!! ...

There is a theory ' that Mirza challenged a Peer (pious person ' closest to Allah) ... that he will debate him ' So when that day came the Peer was scheduled on time ' but Mirza never turned up?? where was he?? ... k some time later he was found* He was sitting on a toilet ' covered in shit * (as-tag fir ullah ) they say it was such a dirty state.

The sunni sect' at once knew it must of have been a punishment from God' and they said this about him which i liked '

'' Aghar .. Mirza hota Khudaa ka Nabi ' .. Tu woh tutti main Ghir kar na marta Kabii'' :rolleyes:

(I am not offending ahmaddis' also known as qadiani's who share similar beliefs ... I am laugthing at a muppet' (Mirza) who went against ALLAH'S laws )


*** We can make that sect ' our friends only if we have a influence over them about true teachings of ISLAM ' ... I my self have a ahmaddi friend ' we always debate' i hope im influencing him !!! *** but if u feel the ahmaddi is influencing you break your friendship' As your true sect might be in Jeporady ***

I am not the 1 to judge the true sect' out of 72 in Islam ' that is for ALLAH TO JUDGE AND REWARD US ' but i can say ' infront of the whole world *There is no GOD but ALLAH ' and MUHAMMAD' (p.b.u.h) is the last Messenger of god* I follow his teachings and love ' his footsteps ' ... there fore im proud to lie under the sect .. sunni -al-jamaat*

Warning! Brothers and sisters who are in my sect do not watch *muslim tv* on sky tv ' it is a ahmaddi channel it will deluded you' Stick to Islam channel (836) and others like geo tv ' and prime tv *

God bless evy 1 ('',)

Believer'

(sig! coming soon ''' watch this space ''' ) :D

[BigPimpN]

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was actually hired by the british goverment to cause problems within the muslim community in India at that time, he claimed to be a prophet and died a painful death

But a message to the mainstream muslims we're already told of such frauds

Holy Prophet Mohammed SAW said:
"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals),
each of whom will claim to be a prophet,
But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me."
(Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol 2 p.45)

They also have channel on sky digital which is also funded by the british goverment their homebase is setup in manchester.


:rofl:

fuckin' hilarious.

[ElDiablo]

wow* IM ON THE FORUMZ :dance3:

lol ... k

Asalaam '

Bismillah ,,,

PEACE TO THE WHOLE ummah!

(I am a muslim who is trying ' brfore pointing fingers at the ahmaddis' what about us !!! ARE WE FOLLOWING ALLAHS COMMANDMENTS??? )


O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QUR'AN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me direcly. BE MY WITNESS O ALLAH THAT I HAVE CONVEYED YOUR MESSAGE TO YOUR PEOPLE."


(Prophet Muhammad P.b.u.h)

Then we get some muppet named Mirza who claims to be a prophet ' HE COMPLETELY HAS LOST THE PLOT !!! ...

There is a theory ' that Mirza challenged a Peer (pious person ' closest to Allah) ... that he will debate him ' So when that day came the Peer was scheduled on time ' but Mirza never turned up?? where was he?? ... k some time later he was found* He was sitting on a toilet ' covered in shit * (as-tag fir ullah ) they say it was such a dirty state.

The sunni sect' at once knew it must of have been a punishment from God' and they said this about him which i liked '

'' Aghar .. Mirza hota Khudaa ka Nabi ' .. Tu woh tutti main Ghir kar na marta Kabii'' :rolleyes:

(I am not offending ahmaddis' also known as qadiani's who share similar beliefs ... I am laugthing at a muppet' (Mirza) who went against ALLAH'S laws )


*** We can make that sect ' our friends only if we have a influence over them about true teachings of ISLAM ' ... I my self have a ahmaddi friend ' we always debate' i hope im influencing him !!! *** but if u feel the ahmaddi is influencing you break your friendship' As your true sect might be in Jeporady ***

I am not the 1 to judge the true sect' out of 72 in Islam ' that is for ALLAH TO JUDGE AND REWARD US ' but i can say ' infront of the whole world *There is no GOD but ALLAH ' and MUHAMMAD' (p.b.u.h) is the last Messenger of god* I follow his teachings and love ' his footsteps ' ... there fore im proud to lie under the sect .. sunni -al-jamaat*

Warning! Brothers and sisters who are in my sect do not watch *muslim tv* on sky tv ' it is a ahmaddi channel it will deluded you' Stick to Islam channel (836) and others like geo tv ' and prime tv *

God bless evy 1 ('',)

Believer'

(sig! coming soon ''' watch this space ''' ) :D


islam channel is wahabi, i dont watch that much either.

[ElDiablo]

:rofl:

fuckin' hilarious.


hilarious in what way?

unless ur taking the piss.

also if u think the bit about the british isnt true, lol u just dont know the british then. they were involved in the crusades right from the start, theyve always been plotting against muslims, if u wanna know more read this book called "confessions of a british spy"

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

ok ppl for all the muslims out there... wot do u lot think of ahmadi muslims.. im jus having a convo wit a friend and we are discussing them.. btw by top scholars they are declared kaffirs and wen u talk to one they talk as if they r the right type of muslim... can u please discuss this and this way i could learn more too...


Sadly Ahmadis do commit heresy in their beliefs , even though in a general sense they are upright in behavior and practice , but Islam is not merely about behavior and practice it's also about your ideas and principles and beliefs.

Ahmadis claim that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad came back to introduce new revelations and additions to "edit" the Qu'ran and we all know that the Qu'ran was made Kamil(perfected) during the time of Muhammad Rasullah(saw). In effect he claimed to be a new Prophet and he reinterprets "khatm al nabiyun" in a very incorrect way. So for such a claim is heresy in Islam and sadly despite the upright character of Ahmadis, they have gone beyond the fold of Islam.

I would go into more details if you'd like but I rather not here as to avoid unnecessary conflicts

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

No one has found where hadith is mentioned in the Quran.


So you're a literalist? and if so tell me

when the Qu'ran says Allah(swt) rises over his throne does this mean there's an actual material throne that Allah(swt) sits upon?

or do you just selectively choose which parts of the Qu'ran to interpret the way you feel, instead of understanding the syllogystics of the Qu'rans relationship to the Ahadieeth.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

well I have a question for you, Are ahmadis another name for ISmailis? Beause they have been declared kafir by top scholars.


Ahmadis are declared Kufar, and well for valid reasons , but Ahmadis tend to follow Shari'ah more or less very well , unfortunately if someone doesnt have the right beliefs then their deeds wont help.

Ismailis now they are just wrong in every sense of the word as are Shi'a in general. They advocate wrong beliefs and live in accord to the jahiliyah.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Thats because I don't take what the scholars teach me. I only take what the Quran teaches me.


um but the Qu'ran we have today has come to us by the hands of the Scholars , so isnt that sort of a Catch 22?

in addition are you qualified to make your own personalized evaluation of the Quran?

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

What a "Wahhabi" is, is a movement aimed at "purifying" Islam from any cultural or liturgical adaptations which may have accrued since the time of Muhammad(saw). They basically want to discard the concept of mathabs and follow direct legal analysis from the Qu'ran and Sunnah alone.

They are NOT kafirs, but their methodology is incorrect and they do make errors in 'Aqidah. They deny following a mathab and are often LITERALISTS, which leads them to ascribing created attributes to Allah(swt). Since they dont deeply expound on such things , it still keeps them within the Islamic fold, but many Scholars who are attached to the Wahhabi movement make statements which would be tantamount to kufr.

Shi'a are borderline when it comes to being kufar, they believe in things which are PLAINLY harram in Islam, or tantamount to shirk. Their Methodology is also wrong when it comes to interpolating the Qu'ran and Sunnah, the only reason they're considered borderline is because certain sects of Shi'a are less deviated than others, for example Zaydis. However Ismailis are beyond the fold of Islam, Ithna Ashari have basically become out of the Islamic fold over time. Other sects such as Alawis are plainly not Muslim.

[donmega]

No one has found where hadith is mentioned in the Quran.

I hope by that you're not saying hadith arent an integral part of islam. Hadiths, as most know, are narrated traditions of the life of the last prophet Muhammad(saw). Throughout the entire Qu'ran, God says repeatedly for us to follow the example of Muhammad(saw). This command comes many many times. How are we to follow the example of Muhammad(saw) without hadith?? Im sure your grievance is the hadith that have been forged, made up, or left out. Its natural that this occured, hadith are not the Qu'ran, and they can never have the same status and infallibility. One is God's word, and the other the example of His Messenger(pbuh). The way we pray, make wudhu, etc. is all from hadith. To deny all hadith because of a few bad apples, is to comitt a huge mistake

[BigPimpN]

hilarious in what way?

unless ur taking the piss.

also if u think the bit about the british isnt true, lol u just dont know the british then. they were involved in the crusades right from the start, theyve always been plotting against muslims, if u wanna know more read this book called "confessions of a british spy"


no, I'm taking the shit.

I don't get why people love to criticize other religions/sects/creeds when they themselves are hypocritical as fuck.

[Riddemz]

. However Ismailis are beyond the fold of Islam,
some may believe that and some may not

[CrazyJoker]

interesting

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

I hope by that you're not saying hadith arent an integral part of islam. Hadiths, as most know, are narrated traditions of the life of the last prophet Muhammad(saw). Throughout the entire Qu'ran, God says repeatedly for us to follow the example of Muhammad(saw). This command comes many many times. How are we to follow the example of Muhammad(saw) without hadith?? Im sure your grievance is the hadith that have been forged, made up, or left out. Its natural that this occured, hadith are not the Qu'ran, and they can never have the same status and infallibility. One is God's word, and the other the example of His Messenger(pbuh). The way we pray, make wudhu, etc. is all from hadith. To deny all hadith because of a few bad apples, is to comitt a huge mistake


Exactly and also we have Ulum Al Isnad bil ahadeeth so even if there are incorrect ahadith we have a method of determining which ones are genuine and which are not. I would caution in what you say however to claim the ahadith are infallible. they are not "infallible" , but not every hadith is a true hadith.

For if we were to classify ahadeeth as being subject to failure then that would entail that the Qu'ran would also be failed BECAUSE the people who passed down the SAHIH ahadith to us are the same ones who passed on the Qu'ran to us as well. Allah(swt) protects the ahadith because the Ahadith are the pure examples of What Allah(swt) directed Rasul(saw) to do in the Qu'ran.

[ElDiablo]

no, I'm taking the shit.

I don't get why people love to criticize other religions/sects/creeds when they themselves are hypocritical as fuck.

in an ideal world wed all just get along, unfortunately i have to live with the fact that i have little sisters, cousins, neices and nephews and i want them to grow up into the right kind of islam, too many diff sects all wanting everyone to be like them. If someones walking around claiming prophethood or even claiming he is a reformer of islam, we would want to know about him wouldnt we? now if its obvious he isnt what he says he is wouldnt you at the very least as a muslim point out why u think he isnt what he says he is or was.

fact is mirza was no Imam mehdi.

[FiStiK]

some may believe that and some may not


The Ismailis are pretty much the only folk who don't believe that. Established Sunni scholars and mainstream Sunnism hold it to be true.

[FiStiK]

lol ismailis dont do that
if anything ismailis are the most peaceful type of muslims
even when we had a great empire, we let sunnis, christians, jews etc. live in peace in our kingdom, they were treated equally to ismailis

You guys had an empire? Can you elaborate more on that, please?

[Riddemz]

The Ismailis are pretty much the only folk who don't believe that. Established Sunni scholars and mainstream Sunnism hold it to be true.
and who is to tell whats the truth?
sunnis or ismailis?
none
only allah can, and if ismailis want to believe in that then its their choice and theres nothing any human can say against their beliefs

[Riddemz]

You guys had an empire? Can you elaborate more on that, please?
we call it the "fatimid period"
id tell you about it but am cuurently bleeding
so google it

[FiStiK]

and who is to tell whats the truth?
sunnis or ismailis?
none
only allah can, and if ismailis want to believe in that then its their choice and theres nothing any human can say against their beliefs

1. to be Muslim, you have to believe that God is one and you must believe that the Prophet (SAW) is the last prophet.
2. You cannot pray to anyone other than God. Ismaili prayers have included verses where Ismailis pray directly to the Aga Khan for salvation.

My mother used to be Ismaili but reverted to Sunnism, so I know what I'm talking about. It's useless to debate it, because I am not under the illusion that I will change your mind. But please understand this:
You may call yourself whatever you want, but Ismailism does not fulfull the basic, most fundamental precepts of Islam. Case closed.

[FiStiK]

we call it the "fatimid period"
id tell you about it but am cuurently bleeding
so google it

I know what the Fatimid period was. Jews and Christians lived in peace with Muslims during other parts of Muslim rule as well.

[Riddemz]

1. to be Muslim, you have to believe that God is one and you must believe that the Prophet (SAW) is the last prophet.
2. You cannot pray to anyone other than God. Ismaili prayers have included verses where Ismailis pray directly to the Aga Khan for salvation.

My mother used to be Ismaili but reverted to Sunnism, so I know what I'm talking about. It's useless to debate it, because I am not under the illusion that I will change your mind. But please understand this:
You may call yourself whatever you want, but Ismailism does not fulfull the basic, most fundamental precepts of Islam. Case closed.
we do not "pray" to the aga khan

that is the thing, people will always try to find a way of making muslims that arent in the same group as them seem like non muslims by twisting things around

[Riddemz]

I know what the Fatimid period was. Jews and Christians lived in peace with Muslims during other parts of Muslim rule as well.
so did sunnis though

but in alot of sunni rules, ismailis have been persecuted
man, even other shias havent been nice with ismailis

and thats why ismailis just plain to say, are the most peacefull
even when we did have that power and could have revenge on those people making our lives terrible, we didnt

[FiStiK]

we do not "pray" to the aga khan

that is the thing, people will always try to find a way of making muslims that arent in the same group as them seem like non muslims by twisting things around


See, the lovely thing about Ismailism is, is that the rules keep changing. Yes, you did 'pray' to the Aga Khan in the seventies, up till about the early nineties. Then, it changed, I suppose to better fit into mainstream Islam, I don't know. But I have old prayer books of my mom's that are proof, and I've done my research, as have the many venerable scholars who are of the same opinion as me, and most other Sunnis.

No one has to twist anything around. It's common knowledge that most Sunnis do not believe Ismailis to be of the fold. Shiites are of the fold, because the congruencies between Shiite and Sunni are many.
Ismailism is too wont to change and diverges on fundamental areas.

I don't understand one thing. Ismailis declare themselves to be the most progressive and 'forward thinking of the Muslims', and yet they still want to be associated with us? Why? Why not just fully break away? I've never understood that.

[FiStiK]

so did sunnis though

but in alot of sunni rules, ismailis have been persecuted
man, even other shias havent been nice with ismailis

and thats why ismailis just plain to say, are the most peacefull
even when we did have that power and could have revenge on those people making our lives terrible, we didnt

I don't understand, why call yourself Muslim still, when so many others
a) either persecute you
b) plainly state you don't follow the correct principles
c) don't want you at all?

[Riddemz]

See, the lovely thing about Ismailism is, is that the rules keep changing. Yes, you did 'pray' to the Aga Khan in the seventies, up till about the early nineties. Then, it changed, I suppose to better fit into mainstream Islam, I don't know. But I have old prayer books of my mom's that are proof, and I've done my research, as have the many venerable scholars who are of the same opinion as me, and most other Sunnis.

No one has to twist anything around. It's common knowledge that most Sunnis do not believe Ismailis to be of the fold. Shiites are of the fold, because the congruencies between Shiite and Sunni are many.
Ismailism is too wont to change and diverges on fundamental areas.

I don't understand one thing. Ismailis declare themselves to be the most progressive and 'forward thinking of the Muslims', and yet they still want to be associated with us? Why? Why not just fully break away? I've never understood that.
because we are muslim

we believe that prophet mohammed was the last prophet
and we believe that there is only one god (allah) and we pray to him

and btw. even when praying to the aga khan
we are not actually praying to the aga khan as in the person
we are actually praying to god (and no we do not believe that the aga khan is god either before anybody assumes that)

[FiStiK]

because we are muslim

we believe that prophet mohammed was the last prophet
and we believe that there is only one god (allah) and we pray to him

and btw. even when praying to the aga khan
we are not actually praying to the aga khan as in the person
we are actually praying to god (and no we do not believe that the aga khan is god either before anybody assumes that)

If you believe what you just said then I'm obliged to believe you are a Muslim. Peace.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Ismailis started off as Shi'ites with political differences. IMHO, i'd consider them muslim officially, although if some change their practices, then that's a different story. They basically followed twelver shi'a up until a certain imam, and then they split over succession. I'm not Shi'ite, but i'd actually wonder why the twelver didn't follow the eldest son as is tradition in hereditary lineage (the Ismailis followed the eldest son of that Imam).

the Aga Khan is a direct descendent through that Imam.

the Ahmaddiya sect...that's the one that people usually say isn't a part of Islam whatsoever.

i forgot to mention, Ismailis are usually grouped in with Shi'a Islam officially. the Fatimid dynasty is usually referred to as Shi'ite, or had been for a long time until they decided to get more specific in Western historical sources.

[FiStiK]

because we are muslim

we believe that prophet mohammed was the last prophet
and we believe that there is only one god (allah) and we pray to him

and btw. even when praying to the aga khan
we are not actually praying to the aga khan as in the person
we are actually praying to god (and no we do not believe that the aga khan is god either before anybody assumes that)


Oops, I didn't read the last part of your message properly.

even when praying to the aga khan

See, that's the bit most of us have issues with. You aren't supposed to pray to anyone EXCEPT Allah (swt) in Islam.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

I hope by that you're not saying hadith arent an integral part of islam. Hadiths, as most know, are narrated traditions of the life of the last prophet Muhammad(saw). Throughout the entire Qu'ran, God says repeatedly for us to follow the example of Muhammad(saw). This command comes many many times. How are we to follow the example of Muhammad(saw) without hadith?? Im sure your grievance is the hadith that have been forged, made up, or left out. Its natural that this occured, hadith are not the Qu'ran, and they can never have the same status and infallibility. One is God's word, and the other the example of His Messenger(pbuh). The way we pray, make wudhu, etc. is all from hadith. To deny all hadith because of a few bad apples, is to comitt a huge mistake

i've always considered Islam a realist religion. as much based on science as on faith. and while people can try to forget hadith altogether...they're making a huge leap of faith and cutting out the scientific/realist underpinnings of Islam, which is what distinguished it from other faiths to begin with.

for the same reason people just said. the same people who reported Hadith, were the ones in charge of collecting the Quran and sending it down. if you believe Hadith are historically invalid, you are contradicting your own logic by believing the Quran is infallible based on pure faith and no historical basis (that's like Christian faith, God's mysteries, etc. etc.).

in fact, hadith don't change the picture much, if at all. people who ignore them, and only follow the Quran, usually mistakenly end up reading some Western history of prophet Muhammad, which is from the same Muslim sources of hadith. except those were not filtered/sorted/investigated. Western history-collecting has not been objective totally, and still isn't.

for Muslims, science was religion. history was a science. thus they went about historical record-keeping with religious zeal. Muslims treated history, philosophy, psychology/sociology equal with biology/medicine, chemistry, physics and math. They made incredible progressions in all fields.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

See, that's the bit most of us have issues with. You aren't supposed to pray to anyone EXCEPT Allah (swt) in Islam.

Ismailis praying to the Aga Khan, are not following the same religion those first Ismailis that split off from Shi'ites are. praying to (rather, praying THROUGH) imams became a common practice in many different Islamic sects over the centuries. this is one of the fundamental causes of Wahabbism, because this praying through saints is considered a major shirk, and it was so thoroughly embedded in culture, the Wahabbis are basically a backlash against that.

[FiStiK]

Ismailis praying to the Aga Khan, are not following the same religion those first Ismailis that split off from Shi'ites are. praying to (rather, praying THROUGH) imams became a common practice in many different Islamic sects over the centuries. this is one of the fundamental causes of Wahabbism, because this praying through saints is considered a major shirk, and it was so thoroughly embedded in culture, the Wahabbis are basically a backlash against that.

Yes, true. But the conflict is between modern, contemporary Ismailism and mainstream Sunnism. They've been declared pretty much out of the Muslim fold, so to speak, by much of Sunni academicia.

There is a really interesting book on this written by a former associate of the Aga Khan's, who later reverted to Sunnism. I can't remember the name, but it was an enlightening read into modern day Ismailism.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

Yes, true. But the conflict is between modern, contemporary Ismailism and mainstream Sunnism. They've been declared pretty much out of the Muslim fold, so to speak, by much of Sunni academicia.

There is a really interesting book on this written by a former associate of the Aga Khan's, who later reverted to Sunnism. I can't remember the name, but it was an enlightening read into modern day Ismailism.

i dunno if they can be declared out of the fold tbh...cuz Ismaili Islam was laid down like 1100 years ago. the Aga Khans have not done much to the religion. the dude's a big philanthropist, and donates tons of money to causes around the subcontinent. he just doesn't say anything when people start praying to him. i think to be honest, there's as much British blood in the Aga Khan line as there is Arab now, although the direct lineage to Fatima is not disputed. the movement towards these 'saint'-type beliefs is common of the region as a whole, as plenty of Sunnis in Pakistan started doing the exact same thing.

my aunt's almost finished her alim program which would make her a Mufti in 'official' Sunni-Hunafi Islamic scholarship, and she lives in Karachi. i remember the mosque we visited back in the mid-1990s, had 'pious' people not buried underground but rather in stone caskets, at which people prayed. my family moved away from there. mainstream Sunni islam obviously declares this tantamount to shirk, but tons of Sunnis in the subcontinent still do these things. and Ismailis just mirror it.

whenever there are riots in Karachi, occaisonally they'd attack an Aga Khan hospital/university Laboratory. but most of the militant Sunni only did this because they percieve Aga Khan as a Western/British puppet, not over the religious differences. that is the same reason Sunnis started to say Ismailis weren't Muslim.

officially (the religious scripture and whatever hadith they follow), Ismaili islam is not different from the same Ismaili-Shi'a Fatimid dynasty from 1100 years ago. however, my aunt tells me that there's a growing effort to stop the practice of branding sects 'out of Islam' unless its like the Ahmadiyas. most of these 'sects' have rich Islamic history, that doesn't contradict the tenets of Islam, so its better to bash people and their practices rather than their branch. Also Iran would've had the Aga Khan killed a while back if they officially started changing hadith since they both follow almost the same books of hadith. Sunnis only judge people as Muslims based on Shahadah, and Ismailis are allowed to do Hajj by the Saudi government.

In my experience, the best advice to Ismailis is to check out the current Aga Khan, and look up old Ismaili practices. or Ismailis from other parts of the globe. that usually is enough to discourage them from praying directly to the Aga Khan (for normal people)

[redlightnin]

no, I'm taking the shit.

I don't get why people love to criticize other religions/sects/creeds when they themselves are hypocritical as fuck.


:werd:

[redlightnin]

LOL. The fact of the matter is...you lot dont shut the fuck up :) How many damn times are u turds gonna rant abt ahmadis? why the fuck are u wasting ur time. At least know exactly where their beliefs stand! Most of u are talkin out of ur asses. This topic has been covered numerous times, and it goes NOWHERE.

If u dont believe what they believe then go have a parade. Just not here.
thankyou, thankyou, thankyou. I was gonna post something to that effect, but you took the words out of my mouth. I just didn't want them to be up my ass about it.

[BigPimpN]

in an ideal world wed all just get along, unfortunately i have to live with the fact that i have little sisters, cousins, neices and nephews and i want them to grow up into the right kind of islam, too many diff sects all wanting everyone to be like them. If someones walking around claiming prophethood or even claiming he is a reformer of islam, we would want to know about him wouldnt we? now if its obvious he isnt what he says he is wouldnt you at the very least as a muslim point out why u think he isnt what he says he is or was.

fact is mirza was no Imam mehdi.


then keep spitting that. nobody will care until others can call you a pure muslim, not by talking about other sects but by living by example.

[redlightnin]

Then Ahmadis do not perform Hajj because of restrictions but spend thousands of ruppees to go to London to attend Jalsa Salana. A government employee cannot leave the country without official permission. But an Ahmad government servant attend Jalsa abroad by obtaining fake passports and by providing false informations, they even go to Qadian to attend the Jalsa Salana. They do not care for any restrictions to attend this Jalsa. in other words they prove by their actions that as compare to Hajj, Jalsa is more important.

I got the above quote from this site http://ahmedi.org/eart/ThoseWhoQuit?page=4

Ahmedis are not allowed to do hajj, its the truth, ask ya elders, its a common fact, even wikipedia got the lowdown, lol, check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_Muslim_Community
man, whatever y0. Do you believe the shit you see online from non-Ahmadi sources? if you do, you've got another thing comming. I'm not gonna degrade any of you all, so all I'm gonna do is urge you "MUSLIMS" who are degrading Ahmadi muslims to go to the OFFICIAL and I stress the word OFFICIAL website of Ahmadi Muslims.

it is www.muslim.org

for those of you who said that we Ahmadi's don't believe that the last prophet wasn't Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h.)... it plainly, and clearly says on the MAIN PAGE in BOLD letters... that He was the last and final messenger of Allah. Next time, get your facts straight, don't listen to 'word of mouth' bull shit that people say, post, w/e. Get it together before you judge someone/something. THANKYOU.
'sallam

[ElDiablo]

then keep spitting that. nobody will care until others can call you a pure muslim, not by talking about other sects but by living by example.

ok, who are we kidding, go on and on about example. But look the FACT is, if he didnt claim he was a prophet, he did claim he was

"Reformer of the age. Mujaddid, Promised Messiah, Mahdi and Prophet of the age."
the last bit in there 'prophet of the age' i dont know if he said that but ill take everyones word for it and say he didnt, but he still claimed to be the promised messiah and mahdi. Hes similar to The Maitreya (http://www.shareintl.org/maitreya/Ma_main.htm) in my opinion.

hence its upto the muslim peopl to decide, Either they can accept that he is what he says he is, or he isnt and is a liar.

NOTE: Imam Mehdi (AS) and Hadrat Isa (AS) are two different people. Hadrat Isa (AS) is the living prophet who did not die on the cross and will return one day. Imam Mehdi (AS) will be the khaleef of the whole muslim world and will unite all muslims, He will arrive before the second coming of Hadrat Isa (AS).

Its upto you to beleive what you want.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

You guys had an empire? Can you elaborate more on that, please?

He's refering to the Fatimiyah which was centered in Northern Egypt, it is true Ismailis had some accomplishments. However they were highly disorganized because of their excessive liberalism and thus failed to forge a concrete governmental body, they allowed Non-Muslim subjects to make assertions regarding Islamic Law and that upset the balance. However it should be noted that the Early Ismailis were philosophers their later counter parts the Agha Khanis became so deviated that they have gone beyond being believers. the Ismailis also spurred the notorious "Hashasheen" who were Nusayris who were basically dope smoking murderers and kidnappers, who were centered in Qom in Iran.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Yes, true. But the conflict is between modern, contemporary Ismailism and mainstream Sunnism. They've been declared pretty much out of the Muslim fold, so to speak, by much of Sunni academicia.

There is a really interesting book on this written by a former associate of the Aga Khan's, who later reverted to Sunnism. I can't remember the name, but it was an enlightening read into modern day Ismailism.


Yeah it's called Understanding Ismailism by Akbar Meherally

you can find most of his writings at www.mostmerciful.com

he gives many insights into Ismaili practices and doctrines, however although he's a Sunni he also has some errors in his understanding of Sunni 'Aqidah and methodology so there should be some caution when analyzing his website.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

man, whatever y0. Do you believe the shit you see online from non-Ahmadi sources? if you do, you've got another thing comming. I'm not gonna degrade any of you all, so all I'm gonna do is urge you "MUSLIMS" who are degrading Ahmadi muslims to go to the OFFICIAL and I stress the word OFFICIAL website of Ahmadi Muslims.

it is www.muslim.org

for those of you who said that we Ahmadi's don't believe that the last prophet wasn't Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h.)... it plainly, and clearly says on the MAIN PAGE in BOLD letters... that He was the last and final messenger of Allah. Next time, get your facts straight, don't listen to 'word of mouth' bull shit that people say, post, w/e. Get it together before you judge someone/something. THANKYOU.
'sallam

This is what an Ahmadi himself told me, and this isn't an argument because, no way of affirming what I say, but he put it like this to me. "Yes Muhammad(saw) is "a" last Prophet(saw) because he's ONE OF THE LAST, khatm-e nabiyoon refers to a series of Prophets that can come. also Last Prophet , doesn't necessarily mean "Last Messenger"."

Although I COMMEND Ahmadis for one thing , that they tend to abide and practice CRUCIAL tennents of Islam FAITHFULLY, and that from the outside they appear as DEVOUT Sunni Muslims, but their beliefs are so errorneous that this cannot be considered legitimate Islamically. This example of how they try and insufficiently try and play semantics and pedantics shows the sort of mental gymnastics their central beliefs take to confuse people.

[Street_Scholar]

different schools of thought, different principles.

if i'm not wrong, it's a sin to call anyone who believe in one god and the prophet mohammad a kaffir.


The point being Ahmad's don't regard prophet Mohamed to be the FINAL Prophet, you can't be a Muslim if you don't believe that.

[Street_Scholar]

either way my point is, it is wrong to call any person who believes in one god and the prophet mohammad, a kaffir.


Listen you really don't know what you're talking about and honestly I couldn't give a shit, but let me tell you something, anyone who doesn't believe in prophet Mohammad to be the final prophet then he is not a Muslim, it as simple as that.

[Street_Scholar]

He was the leader of the Ahmadiyya movement he claimed to be a Muslim. He claimed to be a prophet and a better version of Mohammed (pbuh) he made the statements to the effect that cholera is a sign of Allah wrath on mankind for their wrongdoing, then wound up dying in the same manner, is pretty comical. Obviously, that wouldn't be the case if it weren't for his body of words & action as a 'religious leader,' and who he was in general - a heretic & a dajjal who was directly responsible for misleading thousands of individuals about true Islam.

this verse describes the situation so much!!

And who can be more unjust than he who invents a lie against Allah, or says: "I have received inspiration," whereas he is not inspired in anything; and who says, "I will reveal the like of what Allah has revealed." And if you could but see when the wrong-doers are in the agonies of death, while the angels are stretching forth their hands (saying): "Deliver your soul! This day you shall be recompensed with the torment of degradation because of what you used to utter against Allah other than the truth. And you used to reject His signs (revelations) with disrespect!"
(The Holy Quran, Al-Anam, 6:93)



For years, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani attributed outrageous lies to Allah (http://www.irshad.org/glossary.php#Allah)(SWT (http://www.irshad.org/glossary.php#SWT)): he claimed to be Mehdi, the Promised Messiah, a reincarnation of Muhammad (http://www.irshad.org/glossary.php#Muhammad)(SAW (http://www.irshad.org/glossary.php#SAW)), a new improved Prophet, Hindu Lord, and a manifestation of God. He said he was in direct communication with Allah and claimed that his revelations were divine in nature. It is fitting that Allah(SWT) made his death a testimony to his falsehood. His sudden death proved his following prophecies to have been untrue:

His prophecy that he (Mirza) will live to be 80 or more years old (http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/prophecy.php#LongLife);
(He died when he was only 68 year old.)
His prophecy that he would marry Muhammadi Begum (http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/propheca.php), before his death;
(He never did marry Muhammadi Begum.)
The claim (and Mubahala challenge) that Moulvi Sanaullah of Amristar (http://www.irshad.org/exposed/sana.php), his arch opponent who had openly called him a liar and an impostor, will die before him;
("The liar will die first" - Mirza died first!)
His prophecy that Dr. Abdul Hakim (http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/prophecg.php), one of his opponents who had called him a liar during an open debate, will die within Mirza's life time;
(he said "The liar will die first". But, Mirza died first!)
The prophecy (and Mubahala challenge) that Mr. Abdullah Atham (http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/prophecb.php), a Christian who had debated with Mirza Ghulam and put him to shame, will die before him;
(Mirza had said: "the liar will die first" - Yet, Mirza died first!)
His revelation that Allah(SWT) will bestow upon him a great new son (http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/prophecd.php), a sign of Allah(SWT)'s presence and proof of his prophethood;
(Mirza died without having another son.)
His claim that Allah(SWT) had revealed to him (http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/prophecy.php#marriages) that he would marry many more virtuous women;
(After the prophecy, he did not marry anyone else.)
His prophecy that he (Mirza) will marry a widow (http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/prophecy.php#Widow), before his death;
(After the prophecy, he did not marry anyone else.)
His prophecy that he will die in Mekkah or Medina (http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/prophecy.php#Mekkah).
(Mirza died in the city of Lahor; he never saw Mekkah or Medina.)


Bashir Ahmad, the son of Mirza Ghulam, wrote in his biography: "My mother informed me that 'the first attack of looseness of bowels upon the Promised Messiah occurred when he was at his dining room table. Later, I started pressing his legs and he lay in comfort and slept and soon I too slept. After a short while, he again felt the call of nature and he used the bathroom a couple of times without awakening me, After this he felt very weak; he shook me up and laid down on my bed. I recommenced pressing. In a few minutes he told me to go to bed but I refused and continued to press. Once again he had an urge and, being too weak to go to the lavatory, I made arrangement for him close to the bed. He sat down and relieved himself. Next, he laid himself back on my bed and I started pressing again. His weakness grew intense; he had another motion, accompanied this time by vomiting. This paralyzed him so much that when trying to lay back on the bed, he fell on his back and hit his head on the bed post. His condition alarmed me...'."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 1, P. 11-12; Sirat-ul-Mehdi, P.109)


Basically, if you didn't read all that he die while he had the shits he slipped off his own shit a died. lol

anyways, i heard mirza ghulam also labelled the train as being the dajjal...

word on the street is that he got transported to his burial ground on the back of the 'dajjal'... lol

I have qadyani neighbours and everytime the anniversary of his death comes they sit on the toilet for the whole day and try to reenact his death.



from another thread.

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

islam channel is wahabi, i dont watch that much either.

Ans what ? Is it a problem because its wahabee, If dats da case, you probably wont wanna go do hajj, them imaams you read behind are wahabee too !

[KaShMiRi_ThUg]

man, whatever y0. Do you believe the shit you see online from non-Ahmadi sources? if you do, you've got another thing comming. I'm not gonna degrade any of you all, so all I'm gonna do is urge you "MUSLIMS" who are degrading Ahmadi muslims to go to the OFFICIAL and I stress the word OFFICIAL website of Ahmadi Muslims.

it is www.muslim.org

for those of you who said that we Ahmadi's don't believe that the last prophet wasn't Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h.)... it plainly, and clearly says on the MAIN PAGE in BOLD letters... that He was the last and final messenger of Allah. Next time, get your facts straight, don't listen to 'word of mouth' bull shit that people say, post, w/e. Get it together before you judge someone/something. THANKYOU.
'sallam

FOOL, i didnt check only non ahmadi sources, ma dad knows ahmadis, they know they are not allowed to go do hajj because they have a restriction upon dem as they do not follow the same islam!
Like i said ask ya elders or someone cuz ur chattin out ya battyhole!

[Street_Scholar]

Lol, he posts a link to an Ahmadi site. Obviously, they are not going to say they are heretics and their master died in his own shit.

[Riddemz]

Lol, he posts a link to an Ahmadi site. Obviously, they are not going to say they are heretics and their master died in his own shit.
and who found him dead?
sunnis?
well obviously they're going to say he died in some weird way as to belittle the ahmadi belief

do you honestly think they would of said he died an honorable death?
i doubt they were that good of muslims

[ElDiablo]

Ans what ? Is it a problem because its wahabee, If dats da case, you probably wont wanna go do hajj, them imaams you read behind are wahabee too !
hajj is something we have to do, as long as they dont do a different kind of hajj its all good.

As for islam channel, its as misleading as anything(unless you know your stuff). Cant wait for Bridges TV to start, that will be a real sunni channel.

[ElDiablo]

and who found him dead?
sunnis?
well obviously they're going to say he died in some weird way as to belittle the ahmadi belief

do you honestly think they would of said he died an honorable death?
i doubt they were that good of muslims

the ahmadis themselves dont deny he died like that, their excuse is, he was ill.

Allah knows best.

[Street_Scholar]

and who found him dead?
sunnis?
well obviously they're going to say he died in some weird way as to belittle the ahmadi belief

do you honestly think they would of said he died an honorable death?
i doubt they were that good of muslims


No his son wrote a book about it! :D

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Listen you really don't know what you're talking about and honestly I couldn't give a shit, but let me tell you something, anyone who doesn't believe in prophet Mohammad to be the final prophet then he is not a Muslim, it as simple as that.

Well said

Also if we go by Mamamia's FAULTY logic that would mean CERTAIN "hindu" sects would be Muslims because many believe Muhammad(saw) was an Avatar of Krsna and that Allah(swt) is just one of the names of KRSNA.

In Islam believing in Allah(swt) is not enough, because the Pagan Arabs actually BELIEVED in Allah(swt) , they however didnt have the CORRECT belief in Allah(swt) (tawhid) and the Correct beliefs regarding the Anbiyah wa Arsal(prophets and messengers) including Muhammad(saw).

If MERELY believing that There's a God and that Muhammad(saw) existed was ENOUGH to be a Muslim THEN EVEN CULTS like the NATION OF ISLAM would be Muslims too

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

different schools of thought, different principles.

if i'm not wrong, it's a sin to call anyone who believe in one god and the prophet mohammad a kaffir.

Actually it's NOT that simple. The Pagan Arabs believed in ONE Allah(swt) however they commited shirk and furthermore they didnt accept TAWHID.

Merely believing in Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is not enough , you must have the correct beliefs regarding Allah(swt) and MUhammad(saw) , this is called 'AQIDAH. The sincerity of someones IMAN(faith) depends on their 'aqai'd(concepts regarding faith).

The way groups like Ismailis , Shi'a and Ahmadis deviate from Islam is because although they DECLARE shahada , they also DECLARE ideas which contradict the Shahada.

This is not just a "school of thought" because if that was the case then Judaism , Christianity , Buddhism could similarly be thought of as "Schools Of Thought". Schools of Thought , are Matha'ib, they deal with methodology not ideology. One cannot claim Ahmadiyah 'Aqidah as a Mathab

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

hmmmmmmmmmmm intersting........ I have a friend who;s dad is ahmadi and mom is shia.. I'm sunni and honestly I cud care less what cast she is from I'm not her friend cuz of what she follows. I have heard that your not supposed to have ahmadi friends but I think thats b.s if they are not converting u to their beliefs then whats the problem? I doubt ppl these days become friends with other just so they can convert them to follow their ways of religon, not that ne of what I said made sense.. just thought I put in my two cents..

Salam

you must understand there is a difference between maqam(caste) and faraq(sect). You must not let personalistic emotions and attachments stray you from the Truth. The Qu'ran clearly states that to possess a degree of friendship.

The Noble Qur'an: Al-Ma'idah 5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as 'Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers etc.), they are but 'Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as 'Auliya' then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust)."

Now clearly the examples here are in reference to Christians and Jews , however this applies as well to people who have gone from the fold of Islam. One thing should be noted , that the TYPE of Friendship being described here is called WALIYAT, which is very close strongly bonded friendship.

This does not mean cordial and respectful behavior between christians , jews , ahmadis or otherwise would be forbidden but our friendship should not go beyond casual cordial behavior.

[Riddemz]

The way groups like Ismailis , Shi'a and Ahmadis deviate from Islam is because although they DECLARE shahada
what do you mean "they DECLARE"