The Indo-Aryans of Ancient Afghanistan

[adren@line]

It is commonly accepted today that the Afghanis of today are largely an Iranic peoples, meaning they belong to the Iranian branch of the Indo-European migrants (specifically the "Aryans") who migrated from Siberia/Southern Russia in to Iran, India, and Syria.

However, as judging by their history, I believe that the ancient Afghans were not Iranic, but Indo-Aryan (which refers to one of many Aryan migrant groups whos final destination was India. The other main Aryan migrant group were the Iranians, who spoke a different language and followed a differing culture and whos final destination was the Iranian plateau.

This refers to the people who currently reside in Afghanistan as well as many who lived in what is now Iran.

Evidence:

1. The Indo-Aryans and their descendents are known to have had many great philosophers, whether that be in reference to the countless Hindu sages of the Upanishads/Aryanakas, the Buddha, Mahavira, or Guru Nanak.

Zoroaster (the great "Persian" philosopher) was born in Bactria, Afghanistan.

2. Afghanistan bordered ancient India.

3. Hindu Shahi kingdoms existed in Afghanistan.

4. the Ancient afghans themselves were Buddhist, Hindu, and Zoroastrian, as well as animist, which relates to the giant Buddha figure that existed in Afghanistan that was defaced by the Taliban,

5. The language of Zoroastrianism was Avestan, which is 99 percent similar and identical to Sanskrit. Farsi, and other Iranic (which include Afghani) languages are not based off of Avestan.

A Farsi or Pashto speaker can in no shape or form understand Avestan, while a person fluent in Sanskrit (or even Hindi) would have a very easy time understanding Avestan.

Avestan was widespread throughout Afghanistan as well as Iran. Zoroastrianism was the state religion of Persia.

6. Zoroastrianism posesses many of the same terms, demons, gods, and goddesses in its literature that are seen in the Vedas.

7. The ancient Afghans are mentioned in the Vedas, and some Afghan tribes are mentioned as untouchables due to them breaking away from the Brahminical caste system (implying that they followed it to begin with).

8. The ancient (non-Islamic) Pathans sided with Hindus when Mohhamed of Ghazni invaded Afghanistan.

9. Farsi and other Iranic languages are based off the Iranic branch of Indo-Iranian languages, and hence were developed by a different Aryan migrant group who spoke similar but different languages from the Indo-Aryans.

Since Avestan is very different from Farsi in the context of Indo-Iranian languages, it is only safe to assume that the Indo-Aryans laid the foundations of Persian/Afghan culture while further Iranic-Aryan migrants replaced Sanskrit-like languages with those that became Farsi, Dari, Pashto, etc.

Therefore, modern Afghanis and Iranians represent a very different group of migrants(not withstanding the extreme cultural changes that have taken place in the area as opposed to India) , while ancient Afghanis represent more-of-the-same that was seen (mostly) in northern India.


To sum it up:

Indo-Aryans migrated from Siberia to Iran, Afghanistan, and eventually settled India, while creating a culture that was fairly homogenous throughout most of the land.

The Iranics then migrated from Siberia (proposed Aryan homeland) to Iran and Afghanistan, thus adopting Indo-Aryan culture and eventually replacing it.

[Geezer]

adren@line - could you encourage a discussion please, everyone can google themselves a history lesson.

Mods - this is fine unless a religious debate/argument comes out of it, in which case it can be locked and moved.

[adren@line]

well its not commonly accepted history. This is more of a personal theory.

Most sources attributed Zoroastrian culture to Persians (thus Iranic), when I believe the culture was much more similar to Indo-Aryan culture.

plus whenever I "encourage" a discussion we all know how that turns out.

:no:

[methodman535]

I cant wait for the people in DCP to pull it apart. :dance3:

[Logical_Uzi]

Following the Aryan invasion and their destruction of the great Indus civilisation (Semito-Dravidian) these barbarians plunged India into dark ages that were to last for 2500 years, from 1500 BC to 1000 AD, darker than the Ecclesiastical Dark Ages of Europe. Brahmanic Science during this period held that, and still holds that...

Flat Earth . The earth was universally held to be flat.

Earth-Serpent . The earth is supported by a 1000-headed serpent.
Wine Sea . The earth floats in a sea of wine.

Demonic Eclipses . 2 demons swallow the Earth and Moon, leading thereby to eclipses.

Trillion-Year-Old Universe . The universe is 26 trillion years old as per the numbers cooked up by some rishi.

700,000 mile Mt. Meru . Mt Meru is 100,000 times higher than Mt. Everest.
Dung Medicine .

Ayurvedic medicine contains urine and dung of various animals as ingredients.

Alcohol Universe . The universe is filled with alcohol.

Such beliefs existed amongst many primitive peoples, but not in the 10th century AD, and definitely not now, when institutes are set up in India to prove that many of the fallacies stated above are correct.

[bandogge]

the indo-aryan theory mainly affects the north of india whereas in the southern areas like tamil nadu they never really conquered or invaded physically rather the religion trickled through also in the state of kerala you have a mixture of indo-aryan and dravidian and later had chinese, iranian, jewish and ethiopian migrations. plus in the andamann an nicobar islands they have tribes of african people who havent been influenced by the dravidian or indo aryans ie they are very much still african and more closely related to africa than the indian subcontinent and asia

[adren@line]

Following the Aryan invasion and their destruction of the great Indus civilisation (Semito-Dravidian) these barbarians plunged India into dark ages that were to last for 2500 years, from 1500 BC to 1000 AD, darker than the Ecclesiastical Dark Ages of Europe. Brahmanic Science during this period held that, and still holds that...

Flat Earth . The earth was universally held to be flat.

Earth-Serpent . The earth is supported by a 1000-headed serpent.
Wine Sea . The earth floats in a sea of wine.

Demonic Eclipses . 2 demons swallow the Earth and Moon, leading thereby to eclipses.

Trillion-Year-Old Universe . The universe is 26 trillion years old as per the numbers cooked up by some rishi.

700,000 mile Mt. Meru . Mt Meru is 100,000 times higher than Mt. Everest.
Dung Medicine .

Ayurvedic medicine contains urine and dung of various animals as ingredients.

Alcohol Universe . The universe is filled with alcohol.

Such beliefs existed amongst many primitive peoples, but not in the 10th century AD, and definitely not now, when institutes are set up in India to prove that many of the fallacies stated above are correct.

actually an Indian scientist (forgot his name,will remember later) calculated that the earth was round and gave a fairly reasonable estimate on the earths age.

The rest of that stuff ive never heard of. Im sure there was some Brahmins who believed it though.

Ayurvedic medicine aint no joke, hence the reason it is gaining popularity in western countries.

the first university was set up in India LONG before the 10th century.

And lastly, your Aryan info is severely outdated. They did not destroy the IVC. That theory is extremely old.

:dance3:

[adren@line]

I cant wait for the people in DCP to pull it apart. :dance3:

they never really pull anything apart, they just try to refute it with half-assed history, Iranic-centric history, especially the afghans.

One of them even invented his own "Aryan homeland" map that he made in MS paint and tries to pass it off as fact.

[Street_Scholar]

Adrenaline, on what scientific evidence are you basing this on? You need to have some genealogy basis to your argument and compelling evidence.

[adren@line]

geneology is irrelevent, and would be extremely hard to compile.

Trying to convince a shitload of hardcore Pathans that they were Hindus and Buddhists a long time ago, AND trying to convince them to give someone a detailed family tree that proved this would also be next to impossible (im guessing , anyways).

Indo-Aryan = the group of Aryan migrants whos last destination was India.

Iranics/Iranians = group of Aryan migrants whos final destination was Iran/Afghanistan and the surrounding Iranic countries.

Indo-Aryan does not = Indian. The Indo-Aryans also settled in Syria for a brief time, as they spoke a Sanskrit like language and worshipped Hindu gods.

The Aryans migrated in waves, and at different points in time, so genetics would be irrelevent. For those that believe in an Aryan race, they were probably the same racially.

My post is about the original Afghan and Persian cultures being a product of the Indo-Aryans, and not of the Iranics. I am basing my conclusions on cultural and religious traits.

[bad_cheque]

OK, I learnt something good today. I definitely don't want adren@line to get banned.

I have read that there are a lot of similarities between Zoarastrianism and Hinduism. The emphasis on fire, the similar sounding names of gods and anti-gods (except that the gods of one are anti-gods of the other) etc.

What I did not know was that Zend Avesta was written in Avestan which is quite different from Farsi. I am not sure how close Sanskrit is to Avestan.

It is a fact that those who followed Zorastrianism and Hindus were from the same ancestors.

The Parsis of India are called so exactly because they are from a region called paras in Iran. I am not sure that they were completely mainstream. Persians may have accepted Zorastrianism and later Islam. I have noticed that some communities tend to accept outside religions and maybe the Persians also belong to that group.

The Middle East and Persia always had many religions before the advent of Islam. Zorastrianism was only one of them.

The Siberian theory is bunkum. We all came from Africa. Thats it.

[methodman535]

they never really pull anything apart, they just try to refute it with half-assed history, Iranic-centric history, especially the afghans.

One of them even invented his own "Aryan homeland" map that he made in MS paint and tries to pass it off as fact.

No its pulled apart pretty well. They raise some very valid points.

[methodman535]

OK, I learnt something good today. I definitely don't want adren@line to get banned.

I have read that there are a lot of similarities between Zoarastrianism and Hinduism. The emphasis on fire, the similar sounding names of gods and anti-gods (except that the gods of one are anti-gods of the other) etc.

Interesting. However who is to say which came from the other? We dont know if Zoroastroanism came from...wait...what is Hinduism? That term was just coined by the british and didnt really exist 200 years ago. You have to be more specific like Brahmanism, Upanashidism, Gita-Ism. Hinduism isnt specific enough.

What I did not know was that Zend Avesta was written in Avestan which is quite different from Farsi. I am not sure how close Sanskrit is to Avestan.

And neither is Adrenaline sure...a guy who can speak neither farsi, hindi, sanscrit or avestan. :kekeke: I remember reading on a web site that Sanscrit is about 1/3 dravidian in its root words and having it confirmed by a REAL indian who was educated in the REAL india and knows REAL sanscrit.

It is a fact that those who followed Zorastrianism and Hindus were from the same ancestors.

No its not a fact its an assertion. Its unknown how far back their common ancestry goes.

The Parsis of India are called so exactly because they are from a region called paras in Iran. I am not sure that they were completely mainstream. Persians may have accepted Zorastrianism and later Islam. I have noticed that some communities tend to accept outside religions and maybe the Persians also belong to that group.

No the parsis are Zoroastroan refugees from all parts of Iran. It has nothing to do with the pars province, the PERSIANS are called persians because of the PARS province, parsees just means persians.

The Middle East and Persia always had many religions before the advent of Islam. Zorastrianism was only one of them.

It was a major religion of the Persians. It was also invented by them.

The Siberian theory is bunkum. We all came from Africa. Thats it.

:sarb:

[bad_cheque]

Interesting. However who is to say which came from the other? We dont know if Zoroastroanism came from...wait...what is Hinduism? That term was just coined by the british and didnt really exist 200 years ago. You have to be more specific like Brahmanism, Upanashidism, Gita-Ism. Hinduism isnt specific enough.

And neither is Adrenaline sure...a guy who can speak neither farsi, hindi, sanscrit or avestan. :kekeke: I remember reading on a web site that Sanscrit is about 1/3 dravidian in its root words and having it confirmed by a REAL indian who was educated in the REAL india and knows REAL sanscrit.

No its not a fact its an assertion. Its unknown how far back their common ancestry goes.

No the parsis are Zoroastroan refugees from all parts of Iran. It has nothing to do with the pars province, the PERSIANS are called persians because of the PARS province, parsees just means persians.

It was a major religion of the Persians. It was also invented by them.


:sarb:

OK let us go through this. I never said Zorastrianism came from Hinduism or vice-versa. Both have same ancestry. They were changed accorrding to local traditions and the usual change that occurs with time.

If Sanskrit has dravidian connections, what is wrong with that? Unless you are a racist there is no problem. The Arabs are mixed with Africans the Persians are mixed with Turks and Mongols etc. We are all mixed, especially if you come from a region that has seen many wars.

I concede the Pars province point. But it remains a fact that Iran consisted of and still consists of many tribes. Having looked up a language tree, I am now convinced that Zorastrianism belong to Avestan speakers whose religion the Persians accepted (or maybe not because there were several other religions in the Iran-Middle East region including some related to historical Greece).

I find your quip about Upanadism, Gitaism etc hilarious. If you had talked about Shaivism, Vaishnavism etc I would have at least taken you seriously but your dislike for Hinduism means that you have to make it look ridiculous. Indians differ in the language, beliefs etc but most of them are quite similar. I say most of them because it is not true of many regions in India. Differences between Indians are to similar to the difference between hill valley tribes. Also all the isms you mentioned are related to each other. Also we don't have the absolutist conception of religion and belief that some Muslims have.

[bad_cheque]

BTW, I would appreciate this thread to be less about religion.

Methodman started with his attack on hinduism.

mods, if you find this wrong please delete his post (as well as my response).

thanks.

[KhanNoonienSingh]

i dont see the point (other than curiousity) in distinguishing between various descendants of Aryans.

i actually think that's confusing. i'd rather read more about what the original Aryans were like, what the native peoples in the lands they went to were like, and THEN the paths the Aryans took, and what they mixed from the cultures they picked up. is there a resource on this information?

[bad_cheque]

i dont see the point (other than curiousity) in distinguishing between various descendants of Aryans.

i actually think that's confusing. i'd rather read more about what the original Aryans were like, what the native peoples in the lands they went to were like, and THEN the paths the Aryans took, and what they mixed from the cultures they picked up. is there a resource on this information?
Me too. I am not into segregating people into races. I do find language, culture, accent differences interesting. Maybe thats why I bit the bait this time. I didn't know about the radical difference between avestan and persian.

[methodman535]

OK let us go through this. I never said Zorastrianism came from Hinduism or vice-versa. Both have same ancestry. They were changed accorrding to local traditions and the usual change that occurs with time.

I know you didnt but the thread starter insinuated that Zoroastranism is a side effect of "hinduism" or something to that effect. Its a one sided and biased assertion and I was scrutinizing it.

If Sanskrit has dravidian connections, what is wrong with that? Unless you are a racist there is no problem. The Arabs are mixed with Africans the Persians are mixed with Turks and Mongols etc. We are all mixed, especially if you come from a region that has seen many wars.

Who said there was anything wrong or right about it? Who hinted at that possibility? Thats right-you did. This little touted FACT that sanscrit was a language artificially created rather than naturually derived or formed is relevent to this thread. The little mentioned FACT that it takes 30% of its vocab from a completely different area and civilization is also very relavent to this discussion and should be considered. I dont want to rely on adrenalines "opinion" entirely, do you? If so then why I wonder.

I concede the Pars province point. But it remains a fact that Iran consisted of and still consists of many tribes. Having looked up a language tree, I am now convinced that Zorastrianism belong to Avestan speakers whose religion the Persians accepted (or maybe not because there were several other religions in the Iran-Middle East region including some related to historical Greece).

Which tree? Post a link.

I find your quip about Upanadism, Gitaism etc hilarious. If you had talked about Shaivism, Vaishnavism etc I would have at least taken you seriously but your dislike for Hinduism means that you have to make it look ridiculous.

I dont have a like or dislike for hinduism. I am not a religious person and if I ever bash it, its for reasons of pure entertainment or when I am mocking or debating someone with a hinducentric thrust. I find it hilarious that you are taking someone like adrenaline quite seriously. Adrenaline spends at least 75% of his threads whining, crying, complaining and ranting about islam because he has a venomous hatred of it. This is not an exageration either its easily verified. Yet there isnt the slightest suspicion that he may skew any of his pseudoresearch and produce a conclusion slanted against middleasterners and muslims. :D

Indians differ in the language, beliefs etc but most of them are quite similar. I say most of them because it is not true of many regions in India. Differences between Indians are to similar to the difference between hill valley tribes. Also all the isms you mentioned are related to each other. Also we don't have the absolutist conception of religion and belief that some Muslims have.

I know all the isms are related to each other but we are speaking of a very specific link between one or more of the many many indian isms and just one very specific isms of ancient persia, namely zoroastronism. It doesnt matter how similar the indian isms are to each other, what matters is the direction of flow of all the indian isms to and from each other and what sort of flow there was between them and zoroastronism and its direction. Same applies to sanscrit and avestan.

[bad_cheque]

Who said there was anything wrong or right about it? Who hinted at that possibility? Thats right-you did. This little touted FACT that sanscrit was a language artificially created rather than naturually derived or formed is relevent to this thread. The little mentioned FACT that it takes 30% of its vocab from a completely different area and civilization is also very relavent to this discussion and should be considered. I dont want to rely on adrenalines "opinion" entirely, do you? If so then why I wonder.



I wouldn't insinuate anything like that because I am a dravidian. Simple as that.

The fact that Sanskrit has 30% of its vocabulary from another region than Avestan would make it Sanskrit and not Avestan. That is elementary. I only speculated about similarities. Neither me, you or adrenaline are sure. But yes Avestan is from a completely different branch than Old Persian. Sanskrit also belongs to still another branch. Now it is very much possible that Old Persian has similarities to Avestan but it is also very much possible that only Sanskrit is similar to Avestan. The fact remains that Avestans and Persians are different from each other just as sanskrit-speakers are different from Avestans and Persians. If Persians followed zoarastrianism, it probably because they accepted a foreign religion or Avestan was the language of the elite (I am speculating here). One thing is clear, Zorastrianism was not originated by a Persian unless he used Avestan to get better credentials (like say an Arab scientist publishing in English even though its not really necessary).

Sanskrit was not the language of all Indians. It never was. It was the language of the elites. But that doesn't make it artificial, just elitist. In fact, in some regions the Brahmins speak a form of the local language that still carry vestiges of sanskrit language of yore. Again, there is old sanskrit and new sanskrit. Old sanskrit was commonly used and died out in terms of usage. New sanskrit might be artificial for all I know. But then in that sense the 'pure' arabic is also quite artificial.

If you are replying to adren@line reply to him. I myself rarely agree with him. If you noticed, I really didn't agree with him here either. But he posts a lot of information and I appreciate that. I do wade through conspiracy websites to get little political gossip etc. Its not all bad. You on the other hand has posted very little information but quite a lot of assertions.

As for the link you wanted, you can have two:
http://www.intersolinc.com/newsletters/images/Language%20Tree.gif
http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/linguistics/pie2.gif

[methodman535]

I wouldn't insinuate anything like that because I am a dravidian. Simple as that.

:sarb:

The fact that Sanskrit has 30% of its vocabulary from another region than Avestan would make it Sanskrit and not Avestan. That is elementary.

Adrenaline made a post a while back comparing sanscrit script with avestan script. He said they were 98% similar in script, vocabulary and pronounciation(even though he probably knows less than 50 combined words of sanscrit and hindi himself :kekeke:). Now if Sanscrit is 98% avestan then avestan should by derivation be 30% dravidian as well. This point should be kept alive as this shaky thread matures. This isnt about "elementary" I just want to lay some FACTS(not assertions) out as the thread progresses. Dont get worked up about it.

I only speculated about similarities. Neither me, you or adrenaline are sure. But yes Avestan is from a completely different branch than Old Persian. Sanskrit also belongs to still another branch. Now it is very much possible that Old Persian has similarities to Avestan but it is also very much possible that only Sanskrit is similar to Avestan. The fact remains that Avestans and Persians are different from each other just as sanskrit-speakers are different from Avestans and Persians.

Yeah we arent sure so as soon as you and him "speculate" and start going off into imaginary and illogical realms of possibilities I want to make sure I check for faultlines.

If Persians followed zoarastrianism, it probably because they accepted a foreign religion or Avestan was the language of the elite (I am speculating here). One thing is clear, Zorastrianism was not originated by a Persian unless he used Avestan to get better credentials (like say an Arab scientist publishing in English even though its not really necessary).

Speculations based on assertians. Zoroastroanism supposedly originated in an area of iran and afghanistan known as khorasan. We dont know how it was formed. Like all religions it must have been made by men who grafted other faiths together and added their own variations. But on the topic of language we dont know the role of avestan in Zoroaster's times. It could have been one of many languages of learning in khorasan. Further information is needed on the origins of avestan as a language and the prevelence of different languages in khorasan 5000 years ago or whenever zoroastranism was formed. Also needed is detailed analysis of the structure of the language of the gathas compared with the various dialects of sanscrit. We dont have that here, all we have is adrenaline daydreaming and talking out of his ass as usual.

Sanskrit was not the language of all Indians. It never was. It was the language of the elites. But that doesn't make it artificial, just elitist. In fact, in some regions the Brahmins speak a form of the local language that still carry vestiges of sanskrit language of yore. Again, there is old sanskrit and new sanskrit. Old sanskrit was commonly used and died out in terms of usage. New sanskrit might be artificial for all I know. But then in that sense the 'pure' arabic is also quite artificial.

I seem to remember reading in a lot of places that a certain brahmin sat down one day, looked at sanscrit or whatever languages he knew and almost threw up at the disorganised mess. He analysed and dissected the language and then reconstructed it meticulously with strict logic and rules of grammar. Evidently he must have grafted the dravidian vocab at this point officially into sanscrit. Now this overhaul occured 2000 or 2500 years ago, this needs to be verified of course. But the point is that if this was when sanscrit was "created" in the same form that Mr Adrenaline compared to avestan and concluded they were 98% similar then something is amiss because zoroastranism was created a hell of a lot longer than 2000 years ago. In case you didnt catch my drift adrenaline needs to greatly refine the BS he has been spewing in this thread and past ones and come up with something that isnt contradictory.

If you are replying to adren@line reply to him. I myself rarely agree with him. If you noticed, I really didn't agree with him here either. But he posts a lot of information and I appreciate that. I do wade through conspiracy websites to get little political gossip etc. Its not all bad. You on the other hand has posted very little information but quite a lot of assertions.

What are you talking about? Which "assertions" are you referring to. Point them out and lets see if I can back them up or not. So far in this thread I have just been challenging what adrenaline has asserted. I am not making any unverifiable sweeping claims so I have no clue which assertions you are referring to.

As for the link you wanted, you can have two:
http://www.intersolinc.com/newsletters/images/Language%20Tree.gif
http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/linguistics/pie2.gif

I will check them out.

[Himalayan King]

FOR ALL THE PEOPLE HERE THAT THINK ANCIENT BHARAY WAS LIMITED TO MODERN INDIA

THE HINDU AND BUDDHIST RECORDS SAY THERE WERE 16 KSHATRIYA RULED MAHAJANPADAS IN BHARAT AND THESE INCLUDED THE FOLLOWING:

GANDHARA ( NORTH PAKISTAN AND SOUTH AFGHANISTAN)

KAMBOJ( EASTERN AFGHANISTAN A LIL WESTERN TOO AND SOME PARTS OF CENTRAL ASIA ABOVE KASMIR)

BOTH OF THESE WERE INDIC LANDS AND PANINI THE GREAT HINDU GRAMARIAN OF 5TH CENTURY bc WAS BORN IN kAMBOJ LANDS

HE ALSO LISTS THE KAMBOJAS, PAHLAVAS, SAKAS\SCYTHIANS ETC AS THE BEST OF THE KSHYATRIYA TRIBES, SOME OF WHOM LOST THEIR KSHATRIYAHOOD AT A LATER TIME...

ALL WHAT I METNIOEND IS FACT....LOOK UP PANINIS ASHTADHYAYI....KAMBOJAS ARE THE MOST MENTIONED KSHATRIYAS IN IT.....

I.E. WHAT SOME PEOPLE CALL IRANIC TRIBES ARE INEED INDO-ARYAN OR INDO-IRANIAN, NOT IRANIAN AXCLUSIVELY

PEACE :p

[Himalayan King]

:sarb:

I seem to remember reading in a lot of places that a certain brahmin sat down one day, looked at sanscrit or whatever languages he knew and almost threw up at the disorganised mess. He analysed and dissected the language and then reconstructed it meticulously with strict logic and rules of grammar. Evidently he must have grafted the dravidian vocab at this point officially into sanscrit. Now this overhaul occured 2000 or 2500 years ago, this needs to be verified of course. But the point is that if this was when sanscrit was "created" in the same form that Mr Adrenaline compared to avestan and concluded they were 98% similar then something is amiss because zoroastranism was created a hell of a lot longer than 2000 years ago. In case you didnt catch my drift adrenaline needs to greatly refine the BS he has been spewing in this thread and past ones and come up with something that isnt contradictory.




uve got ure facts wrong lol...i have done scholarly research on the aryan invasion theory (AIT) and sanskrit is 99.9% indo-eupean so rire no overhaul of dravidian lol seems u have no clue about linguistics

the brahmin ure talking about is the PANINI i mentioned in the previous post...he didnt overhaul sanskrit...he put all the rules of vedic sanskrit down in systematic sutras about grammar rules etc and the sanskrit form that time on was claeed classical sanskrit...

[bad_cheque]

Could you give some evidence of the 30% dravidian assertion. It would be fine if you post a video of your "friend" asserting this.

I haven't really bought the 30% claim nor the 98% one.


I have never heard of a brahmin sitting down to correct everything. Even if he did it doesn't mean he copied. I might have been reworked.

The only story I know is of my language malayalam being codified by a non-brahmin.
The fact remains that both of us are just making assertions.

Now I will go back to something you said earlier. Just because you don't believe in a religion doesn't mean that you are not a sectarian. I don't see you talking in this manner about Islamists or Islam. You feel a constant need to put down India/Hinduism. If you think that this is riling any of us, you mistaken. This just makes for good "time pass" as far as I am concerned.

Btw, where is adre@line?

[bad_cheque]

Yeah, there is a theory that Mahabharata took place is present-day Afghanistan. All attempts to find the river Saraswati in present-day India has failed. While too much evidence of ancient hindu civilisation has turned up in Afghanistan. The bad news is that the present-day river Ganga may not have been the original river Ganga. So not only river Saraswati but river Ganga may have dried up.

[Himalayan King]

Yeah, there is a theory that Mahabharata took place is present-day Afghanistan. All attempts to find the river Saraswati in present-day India has failed. While too much evidence of ancient hindu civilisation has turned up in Afghanistan. The bad news is that the present-day river Ganga may not have been the original river Ganga. So not only river Saraswati but river Ganga may have dried up.
u got soem facts wrong there bro
1. mahabharata took place in kuru kshetra in modern harayan, the ancient mahajanpada of kuru...they were hoever supported by the gandharas and kambojas...thast when these people lost their kshatriyahood
2. saraswati has been found... :wavey: :dance3:
3. yes MOST vedic evidence shows up in north\northwest india, pakistan and eastern afghanistan and kashmir
4. the present ganga IS the original ganga even according to western scholars

[The Only One]

Adrenaline,

Your article has no solid proofs, these are claims made by you and only you. Ive seen you post this on dcpersian.com forums, Ive also seen ur afghan/pashtun ethnic hatred and your disgusting hindu nature. Don't bullshit yourself...

[methodman535]

uve got ure facts wrong lol...i have done scholarly research on the aryan invasion theory (AIT) and sanskrit is 99.9% indo-eupean so rire no overhaul of dravidian lol seems u have no clue about linguistics

Really? It seems you have no clue how to even read the simple language of English. Scholarly research eh? I said some brahmin overhauled SANSCRIT and the era after that saw a lot of scientific advance in ancient india.

the brahmin ure talking about is the PANINI i mentioned in the previous post...he didnt overhaul sanskrit...he put all the rules of vedic sanskrit down in systematic sutras about grammar rules etc and the sanskrit form that time on was claeed classical sanskrit...

First of all, if panini or whoever wrote down systematic and logical rules of grammar and from that point all sanscrit was spoken differently then thats an overhaul of sanscrit. Thats exactly what I said. But besides that why did you even bring this up? Do you even have a point besides trying to look for little discrepencies that mean nothing like some troll? :D

[The Only One]

Adrenaline,

Your article has no solid proofs, these are claims made by you and only you. Ive seen you post this on dcpersian.com forums, Ive also seen ur afghan/pashtun ethnic hatred and your disgusting hindu nature. Don't bullshit yourself...

BTW, PASHTO IS A DIRECT DESCENDANT OF AVESTAN WITH CONNECTIONS TO ANICENT BACTRIAN LANGUAGE.

[Himalayan King]

Really? It seems you have no clue how to even read the simple language of English. Scholarly research eh? I said some brahmin overhauled SANSCRIT and the era after that saw a lot of scientific advance in ancient india.


First of all, if panini or whoever wrote down systematic and logical rules of grammar and from that point all sanscrit was spoken differently then thats an overhaul of sanscrit. Thats exactly what I said. But besides that why did you even bring this up? Do you even have a point besides trying to look for little discrepencies that mean nothing like some troll? :D

well they arent discepancies dude 30% vs 99% etc is a big deal

also sanskrit was NOT spoken differently...he provided the firstgrammar book so to say... only a few minor rules changed...i think u'll be able to verify this in some good academic source

and yup i wrote academic papers as indic religions was one of my minors in college :wavey:

[bad_cheque]

Adrenaline,

Your article has no solid proofs, these are claims made by you and only you. Ive seen you post this on dcpersian.com forums, Ive also seen ur afghan/pashtun ethnic hatred and your disgusting hindu nature. Don't bullshit yourself...
Please tell me what that is.

Mods, please don't move this thread. Delete the above post as well as mine if you want to.

[bad_cheque]

methodman, Panini wrote a grammar book. He was the first one to do it.

If I write a book on grammar, it doesn't mean I overhauled the English language.

Geddit?

[Himalayan King]

Adrenaline,

Your article has no solid proofs, these are claims made by you and only you. Ive seen you post this on dcpersian.com forums, Ive also seen ur afghan/pashtun ethnic hatred and your disgusting hindu nature. Don't bullshit yourself...

BTW, PASHTO IS A DIRECT DESCENDANT OF AVESTAN WITH CONNECTIONS TO ANICENT BACTRIAN LANGUAGE.
man lemme point out that sanskrit and avestan are VERY closely related so it can just as easily be called a sanksrit dialect which developed outta ancient bactrian and then had some iranic branch influences at a later date ( which has been shown in the case of many other languages by scholars)

[Himalayan King]

methodman, Panini wrote a grammar book. He was the first one to do it.

If I write a book on grammar, it doesn't mean I overhauled the English language.

Geddit?
my point exactly :D

[bad_cheque]

Adrenaline,

Your article has no solid proofs, these are claims made by you and only you. Ive seen you post this on dcpersian.com forums, Ive also seen ur afghan/pashtun ethnic hatred and your disgusting hindu nature. Don't bullshit yourself...

BTW, PASHTO IS A DIRECT DESCENDANT OF AVESTAN WITH CONNECTIONS TO ANICENT BACTRIAN LANGUAGE.

http://indoeuro.bizland.com/tree/iran/iran.html

"The tongue had features of both Eastern and Western Iranian languages, that is why linguists believe it was spoken before the Iranian branch split into two subgroups. "
http://indoeuro.bizland.com/tree/iran/avestan.html

[methodman535]

Could you give some evidence of the 30% dravidian assertion. It would be fine if you post a video of your "friend" asserting this.

I read that on dalitistan.org and then I asked a brahmin who had been educated in sanscrit in india and is now in the US. It was confirmed that sanscrit does have dravidian vocab roots. This brahmin was from the south of India. I might have a yahoo convo transcript, this was done online quite a long time ago. I am out of touch with that person.

I haven't really bought the 30% claim nor the 98% one.


I have never heard of a brahmin sitting down to correct everything. Even if he did it doesn't mean he copied. I might have been reworked.

I did say it was reworked, aka overhauled, with emphasis on reconstructing grammar to make it consistant and logical. I dont know the full details but I do know that at some point dravidian roots were grafted into the sanscrit used officially by brahmins. The reason I mentioned it is because I thought it was a significant point in the history of the language and would be a very valuabe "marker" to use when analsysing the relationship between sanscrit and avestan. After all, isnt that what this thread is supposed to be about?

The only story I know is of my language malayalam being codified by a non-brahmin.
The fact remains that both of us are just making assertions.

Now I will go back to something you said earlier. Just because you don't believe in a religion doesn't mean that you are not a sectarian. I don't see you talking in this manner about Islamists or Islam. You feel a constant need to put down India/Hinduism. If you think that this is riling any of us, you mistaken. This just makes for good "time pass" as far as I am concerned.

I feel a need to put down arrogance and innaccuracies. Why should hinducentricism in posts be immune from that? I only put down "hindus" in the context of debate such as this thread. Contrast that with the lunatic adrenaline whose sole purpose for existence(well actually 80% of his effort) on this forum is to put down Islam. I do criticise all relgions. Mainly its done in threads debating atheism, agnosticism versus theism. I have written many many posts arguing with morons who claim the quran is a scientific textbook and the word of god. Just 2 days ago in SD I made a post asserting Islam and Christianity were artificially created by humans to fullfil a political goal. But over the entire course of my presence on RD the most consistent theme of my posts, especially in SD, is debating Islamists, Orthodox muslims, theists and people of that sort. Its ludicrous for you to say I dont oppose "Islam" or "Islamists" because of sectarian sympathies.

Btw, where is adre@line?

Who cares? The less he posts the better in this thread. The himalayan king, even though he sounds like a crackaddicted moron, still has a lot of information he has parrotted over the years to spew out. Theres plenty to discuss dispel for now without adrenaline.

[Bajrang Bali]

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2004/4-6/06-08_diaspora.shtml

theyve been running hindus out since year 1000, pok went from 5% hindu to .001% in 10 years, this is what happended with taliban only now theyre gone so in this article hindussikhs are reclaiming their shit

[methodman535]

well they arent discepancies dude 30% vs 99% etc is a big deal

also sanskrit was NOT spoken differently...he provided the firstgrammar book so to say... only a few minor rules changed...i think u'll be able to verify this in some good academic source

and yup i wrote academic papers as indic religions was one of my minors in college :wavey:

You claim to be a "scholar" who studied the Aryan Invasion theory yet you cannot even understand simple english typed out in standard correct grammar using rudimentary vocabulary. First of all I was not the one who said there is a 99% similarity between avestan and sanscrit. It was adrenaline. Secondly I said that its been ASSERTED by reliable sources that sanscrit has root words from dravidian languages. Thirdly Zoroastroanism is a religion MUCH MUCH older than 2000 years.

I am simply pointing out that everything here doesnt fit together because the fusion between sanscrit and "dravidian" languages would have made the differences between avestan and sanscrit way way more than the 1% that adrenaline claims it is(even though he doesnt know more than 50 combined words from hindi, persian, avestan and sanscrit).

[bad_cheque]

methodman, the Panini thing is settled down. This is problem with having half-info. This brahmin, that brahmin....there are a lot brahmins man!

Dalitistan is a joke. I go to a lot of weird websites and quite a lot of them are conspiracy ones and some fantasist ones. I don't mind as long as I can get some useful info. Dalitistan has been completely useless to me. If you want to read bedtime stories, you should go there.

Btw, the above doesn't mean that I am endorsing Hindu websites. Many have quite a lot of mistakes including one that I see repeated is Buddha being shown as one of 10 avatars of Vishnu.

Again, Dalitistan is a joke and your "brahmin friend" is a clown.

[bad_cheque]

You claim to be a "scholar" who studied the Aryan Invasion theory yet you cannot even understand simple english typed out in standard correct grammar using rudimentary vocabulary. First of all I was not the one who said there is a 99% similarity between avestan and sanscrit. It was adrenaline. Secondly I said that its been ASSERTED by reliable sources that sanscrit has root words from dravidian languages. Thirdly Zoroastroanism is a religion MUCH MUCH older than 2000 years.

I am simply pointing out that everything here doesnt fit together because the fusion between sanscrit and "dravidian" languages would have made the differences between avestan and sanscrit way way more than the 1% that adrenaline claims it is(even though he doesnt know more than 50 combined words from hindi, persian, avestan and sanscrit).
If you can prove that Sanskrit is Dravidian, you might get a tenure job in Harvard. Present a paper quick. I think your life is set. :thumleft:

[Bajrang Bali]

You claim to be a "scholar" who studied the Aryan Invasion theory yet you cannot even understand simple english typed out in standard correct grammar using rudimentary vocabulary. First of all I was not the one who said there is a 99% similarity between avestan and sanscrit. It was adrenaline. Secondly I said that its been ASSERTED by reliable sources that sanscrit has root words from dravidian languages. Thirdly Zoroastroanism is a religion MUCH MUCH older than 2000 years.

I am simply pointing out that everything here doesnt fit together because the fusion between sanscrit and "dravidian" languages would have made the differences between avestan and sanscrit way way more than the 1% that adrenaline claims it is(even though he doesnt know more than 50 combined words from hindi, persian, avestan and sanscrit).

since when is language blood? ur a desi speaking english does that mean ur white?

[methodman535]

methodman, Panini wrote a grammar book. He was the first one to do it.

If I write a book on grammar, it doesn't mean I overhauled the English language.

Geddit?

It does mean you overhauled it if you completely throw out every illogical, irrational and noncompliant idiosynchrasy in the english language. The resultng logical new language has been overhauled.

Geddit?

[methodman535]

since when is language blood? ur a desi speaking english does that mean ur white?

Why the hell are you asking me that? This has no relation to my post that you quoted. Let me ask you this: Since when are apples oranges? If you are eating a red citrus fruit does that mean you could be eating an orange? :rolleyes:

[Himalayan King]

I read that on dalitistan.org and then I asked a brahmin who had been educated in sanscrit in india and is now in the US. It was confirmed that sanscrit does have dravidian vocab roots. This brahmin was from the south of India. I might have a yahoo convo transcript, this was done online quite a long time ago. I am out of touch with that person

I did say it was reworked, aka overhauled, with emphasis on reconstructing grammar to make it consistant and logical. I dont know the full details but I do know that at some point dravidian roots were grafted into the sanscrit used officially by brahmins. The reason I mentioned it is because I thought it was a significant point in the history of the language and would be a very valuabe "marker" to use when analsysing the relationship between sanscrit and avestan. After all, isnt that what this thread is supposed to be about?


I feel a need to put down arrogance and innaccuracies. Why should hinducentricism in posts be immune from that? I only put down "hindus" in the context of debate such as this thread. Contrast that with the lunatic adrenaline whose sole purpose for existence(well actually 80% of his effort) on this forum is to put down Islam. I do criticise all relgions. Mainly its done in threads debating atheism, agnosticism versus theism. I have written many many posts arguing with morons who claim the quran is a scientific textbook and the word of god. Just 2 days ago in SD I made a post asserting Islam and Christianity were artificially created by humans to fullfil a political goal. But over the entire course of my presence on RD the most consistent theme of my posts, especially in SD, is debating Islamists, Orthodox muslims, theists and people of that sort. Its ludicrous for you to say I dont oppose "Islam" or "Islamists" because of sectarian sympathies.

Who cares? The less he posts the better in this thread. The himalayan king, even though he sounds like a crackaddicted moron, still has a lot of information he has parrotted over the years to spew out. Theres plenty to discuss dispel for now without adrenaline.


1.lol dalitstan.org is the MOST biased anti hindu dalit christian mouthpiece website that is far fromt he most reliable of sources........ yup dravidian roots were found in classical sanskrit cuz as teh indo-aryans expanded fromt heir homeland in NW india\pakistan\east afghanistan etc into mainland india they discovered new species of flora and fauana that they had no words for... again classical sanskrit is still about 98-99% indo-european ( i'll get you the exact stats)

2.lol vedic grammar was very logical... what u got right was minor inconsistencies but they werent really that...he just ma de ONE standardized form where numerous were accepted before.again avestan is predated by vedic sanskrit so yup and classical sanskrit as i mentioned only has 1% at most drav roots that too fro flora fauna discovered in new regions

3.put down arrogane yes but there are MOSTLY no inaccuracies in what people like adrenaline say....as far as the anti islamic stuff is cocnerned i dont know too much to make a statement on that

4. nope i actually value his opnion in sanatana dharma\ vedic religion related threads as he is the only other guy on this site that has a sound in depth knowledge of the subjects.

[bad_cheque]

It does mean you overhauled it if you completely throw out every illogical, irrational and noncompliant idiosynchrasy in the english language. The resultng logical new language has been overhauled.

Geddit?
He put it down.

Hindus have an oral tradition. Things are not always written down. Even the vedas were passed on from person to person rather than words.

Same thing with grammar. Lets say you are writing a book on arabic grammar. Now arabic has many forms and usages changing from region to region. One person puts down the grammar and usage that he feels is right. Does it mean he overhauled it? I know for a fact that classical arabic is an elitist language different from its common forms. Now after this book is written, if people write in the classical arabic does it mean that arabic has been overhauled?

And overhauled doesn't mean he added 30% dravidian. You still haven't come up with any evidence of this 30% thing. I am still saying this, if you can prove this you will get a tenured linguistics post at Harvard. So until you come up with something good (and thus set your life forever) I am not going to respond to this piece of shit.

[nvthis]

My comment is really off-topic but just wanted to add this here.

I dislike the Aryan theory. Why? because I think in some ways it promotesa superiority complex. North Indians/Pakistanis think they are better than South Indians, Pathans/Afghani's think they are better than Northwestern Indians/Pakistanis, Persians think they are better than the whole subcontinent.

And, It promotes an Inferiority complez how? That the only way Light skin and light eyes/hair (which are seen as 'beautiful' feautures :ugh: ) came into the sub-continent and parts of middle-east and advances in other areas like language etc were made? Because of the Aryan invasion.

[Bajrang Bali]

Why the hell are you asking me that? This has no relation to my post that you quoted. Let me ask you this: Since when are apples oranges? If you are eating a red citrus fruit does that mean you could be eating an orange? :rolleyes:

well u do use dalitstan as your news source so u must think u originate from the garden of eden which is not the area we are talking about

[methodman535]

methodman, the Panini thing is settled down. This is problem with having half-info. This brahmin, that brahmin....there are a lot brahmins man!

Dalitistan is a joke. I go to a lot of weird websites and quite a lot of them are conspiracy ones and some fantasist ones. I don't mind as long as I can get some useful info. Dalitistan has been completely useless to me. If you want to read bedtime stories, you should go there.

Btw, the above doesn't mean that I am endorsing Hindu websites. Many have quite a lot of mistakes including one that I see repeated is Buddha being shown as one of 10 avatars of Vishnu.

Again, Dalitistan is a joke and your "brahmin friend" is a clown.


Dalitistan may be a joke but only a fool would say everything on dalitistan is false. I read on dalitistan that 30% of the vocab of sanscrit has dravidian origin. I remembered it. I spoke to a south indian brahmin who was taught sanscrit in school in india and who also knew tamil. The claim on dalitistan was verified by this person who is fluent in hindi, urdu, tamil, sanscrit(rusty) as well as english which was the language we communicated in. Do you have better qualifications for this assertion linguisticly and educationally? Let me know if you do.

Now, I am satisfied that sanscrit has a significant dravidian root origin to make me believe it was a result of an artificial or natural fusion between a central asian and a south indian language. As far as Im concerned this is a significant fact to consider in the linkage betweena avestan and sanscrit. I really dont want to listen to all the bullshit about if its 20%, 30% 5% or 0% derived from dravidian tongues. Unless the persons bullshit has a point which usually it doesnt, I just see armchair intellectuals showing off irrelent knowledge of trivia.

[Bajrang Bali]

My comment is really off-topic but just wanted to add this here.

I dislike the Aryan theory. Why? because I think in some ways it promotes an inferiority complex.

maxmuller [father aryan invasion theory] himself refuted it before he died saying that his studies were not the teeth skin or hair, but strictly lingual..

[methodman535]

well u do use dalitstan as your news source so u must think u originate from the garden of eden which is not the area we are talking about

Listen shut up. You make no sense at all.

[Himalayan King]

"Sanskrit as defined by Pāṇini had evolved out of the earlier "Vedic" form, and scholars often distinguish Vedic Sanskrit and Classical or "Paninian" Sanskrit as separate dialects. However, they are extremely similar in many ways and differ mostly in a few points of phonology, vocabulary, and grammar."

methodman, thats from the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit

LOL@armchair intellectuals

Also, jsut cuz i dont spend 10 min editing my posts like you deosnt mean i dont know english and havent studied academic religion.....just means i cant type worth shit :p

[methodman535]

I have given my explanations on the links between dravidian roots and sanscrit. And my statement on daltistan. Im not gunna respond to any more offtopic bullshit like the garden of eden and all this other crap that people have started pulling out of their asses. I am only going to respond to posts related to the topic at hand now. And once again for the record I dont think it matters if sanscrit has 5%, 10% or 40% root dravidian vocab since the only reason I mentioned that was to see how things fit together with the evolution of sanscrit as a language vs. the evolution of avestan as a language from a historical perspective. Cuz the fucking bulshit and stay on topic.

[bad_cheque]

My comment is really off-topic but just wanted to add this here.

I dislike the Aryan theory. Why? because I think in some ways it promotesa superiority complex.
Thats the best observation I have seen in a while. You know a lot of these theories are made up for political purposes. This is something I read about 4 years back. I don't care about races myself.

Somebody said on GD that desis are caucasians. I say we are desis...brown people. Thats it. It doesn't make us any different from caucasians or blacks. Because I have this belief, I don't take any shit from any racist. Unfortunately most desis feel inferior to whites and western culture (incorrectly called 'modernity' by many desis).

Also do you find people back home so obsessed with race?

[bad_cheque]

I have given my explanations on the links between dravidian roots and sanscrit. And my statement on daltistan. Im not gunna respond to any more offtopic bullshit like the garden of eden and all this other crap that people have started pulling out of their asses. I am only going to respond to posts related to the topic at hand now. And once again for the record I dont think it matters if sanscrit has 5%, 10% or 40% root dravidian vocab since the only reason I mentioned that was to see how things fit together with the evolution of sanscrit as a language vs. the evolution of avestan as a language from a historical perspective. Cuz the fucking bulshit and stay on topic.
Which sanskrit Old or new?

[nvthis]

Thats the best observation I have seen in a while. You know a lot of these theories are made up for political purposes. This is something I read about 4 years back. I don't care about races myself.

Somebody said on GD that desis are caucasians. I say we are desis...brown people. Thats it. It doesn't make us any different from caucasians or blacks. Because I have this belief, I don't take any shit from any racist. Unfortunately most desis feel inferior to whites and western culture (incorrectly called 'modernity' by many desis).

Also do you find people back home so obsessed with race?

Read my post again, I added to it.

Yes, I've seen that in the homeland. They're obsessed with skin color, race etc. I've seen it among desi's abroad as well, they are ashamed about their culture. It pisses me off really.

[Bajrang Bali]

u know i dont see whats so hard to believe about indians living in india for 1000s and 1000s of years, recent studies show natives have for what 90,000 years so u know wtf, i say afghanis the ones who didn't migrate lived there since time immemorial

[bad_cheque]

Read my post again, I added to it.

Yes, I've seen that in the homeland. They're obsessed with skin color, race etc. I've seen it among desi's abroad as well, they are ashamed about their culture. It pisses me off really.
I have never seen it and never felt it in India.

[nvthis]

I have never seen it and never felt it in India.

What? Obsession with light skin?

[Himalayan King]

The most definitive text fro academic students of AIT and the inermixture of sanskrit and dravidian languages etc is "The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture : The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate " by Edwin Bryant... Its a $100 book and it was my primary source for my paper on AIT... u'll roly find it in ure university library...most of what I say is taken from there...so yup its a straight up academic source..he gives a very indepth discussion of the evolution of classical sanskrit from vedic sanskrit and parallels with avestan etc... u'll find it interesting methodman...

and i do appreaciate what u said that the amount of dravidian influence doesnt matter to the issue at hand....anyway, u shud still realize that almost all ROOTS are indo-european...there are however some good LOANWORDS for flora and fauna..besides that there is also the retroflex which i salso found in dravidian languages but schoilars can argue both sides of the debate asto whether it was a dravidian infleunce or sanskrit influence on dravidian....so yup only loanwords almost NO grammatic influence

[bad_cheque]

What? Obsession with light skin?
I have seen that but never seen it co-related with race. Maybe I am too arrogant to let others get me lol

[nvthis]

I have seen that but never seen it co-related with race. Maybe I am too arrogant to let others get me lol

Well, not race, ethnicity. Have you not seen it on this board? I remember, a while back, these 2 guys were having an argument, not even remotely about race or anything, eventually they started flaming each other and one of them starts calling the other one black, said he had 'inferior genetics'. Why? Only because he the guy he was flaming was Tamil and the he was Punjabi and had too much of Punjabi pride up his ass.

[Himalayan King]

Well, not race, ethnicity. Have you not seen it on this board? I remember, a while back, these 2 guys were having an argument, not even remotely about race or anything, eventually they started flaming each other and one of them starts calling the other one black, said he had 'inferior genetics'. Why? Only because he Tamil and the other guy was Punjabi and had too much of Punjabi pride up his ass.
lol yup its so crayz.. also i dont understand why paks claim to be more related to persians than indians when the persians totally despise them...they'e better off saying somethign like their the true descendants of the vedic aryans or something

[methodman535]

Which sanskrit Old or new?

The point is just to try and make everything fit together and see where the discrepencies are and assign a degree of reliability here and there. I dont see anyone doing that, each is just ranting and raving about what they think they know.

[bad_cheque]

Well, not race, ethnicity. Have you not seen it on this board? I remember, a while back, these 2 guys were having an argument, not even remotely about race or anything, eventually they started flaming each other and one of them starts calling the other one black, said he had 'inferior genetics'. Why? Only because he the guy he was flaming was Tamil and the he was Punjabi and had too much of Punjabi pride up his ass.
Those are Punjabis living abroad. I have studied among high-school kids who were North Indians. Sure they made some remarks about my language but never about them being superior or somebody else being inferior. This is a problem with NRIs. Most of the kids here are confused. Seriously confused.

[nvthis]

Those are Punjabis living abroad. I have studied among high-school kids who were North Indians. Sure they made some remarks about my language but never about them being superior or somebody else being inferior. This is a problem with NRIs. Most of the kids here are confused. Seriously confused.

It is a serious problem with NRI's. The problem I saw in my previous high school in India was that Jatts thought of themselves as superior. :neutral:

[Street_Scholar]

Lol, anyone can claim anything. Unless you have solid proof. Some regard Pathans to be one of the lost tribes of Israel (http://www.moshiach.com/features/tribes/pathans.php). At the end of the day if you don't have proof, its pointless, discussing a topic which is not going to get anywhere.

[NumbaOneStunna]

lol yup its so crayz.. also i dont understand why paks claim to be more related to persians than indians when the persians totally despise them...they'e better off saying somethign like their the true descendants of the vedic aryans or something
i am quite sure some persians might despise indians or pakistanis but to make a general statement like that is absurd not to mention untrue.

[Himalayan King]

i am quite sure some persians might despise indians or pakistanis but to make a general statement like that is absurd not to mention untrue.
SOME persians are really nice i agree... but a good numebr of them are either super racist toward desis or appreciate desi culture only because THEY beleive that all that was god in medeival india was of persian infleunce and all that was good with vedic culture was because the vedic aryans came from iran....

[Logical_Uzi]

1. If scientists have proven that the world will come to an end (In Abrahamic belive - Day of Judgement) what will happen to all the Vedas followers who believe they will be reborn into another life form on this earth ? If there is no more life forms on this earth, what will happen to them ?

2. If the Ancient Egyptians believed that their souls will go to Heaven, and the ancient Egyptians had Scripture centuries before the Vedas, then why do vedas followers claim their scripture is the oldest and therefore reincarnation is the right way ?

3. Low caste members (untouchables) are born into certain families, for example, everyone born into the Juppy family, automatically becomes a untouch able. The woman in the Juppy family, Mrs. Juppy is the aledged door way for bad people in previous lives who did not follow the Vedas to be born through Mrs. Juppy and hence be also a untouchable like the rest of Mrs. Juppy's family members.

If Mrs. Juppy converts to Budduism in India, what then will happen to the enterance gate for the non-Vedas followers to be reborn into?

If there are no longer any untouchables becuase of either conversion or finacial fortune, then the entire caste system would collapse (as it slowly is doing thanks to the help of humanitary workers.) then there would no longer be a earthly Hell as the Vedas followers imagine, and no longer a reward or punishment, why then are the Vedas gods not maintaining there reward and punishment systems?

Inconclusion, if there are Two doors, (door A) and (door B) the good go to (door A) and the bad go to (door B), what will happen to the bad if (door B) becomes sealed up or has disappeared ?

4. If the Vedas followers desire Unity, why is it that they enforce a system where the their own members are divided into 5 levels where certain levels are not allowed to talk to, eat with, or even Touch Other Vedas followers ?

5. How do Vedas followers claim they desire love and harmony when they think it is Absolute Justice that fellow Vedas followers includeing women and children die daily in India under the current caste system?

6. How is it a punishment to become a animal or a insect or a tree if some people can consider this to be a reward rather than a punishment ? As said before, Insects are born They Fly, they Run, They Mate and they die, is that so bad ?

For example, Ants have the about 200 times their own body weight strength, is it so bad to be that strong and Unified as ants are?

7. How is it a reward to be born into the world as children are screaming and crying and live years before having any comprehension, and then to grow old and to again loose comprehension, where is the reward to be reincarnated into that over and over?

8. Why would God show us the Many stars and galaxsies if we are only limmited to this world over and over?

Why would God Direct our Attension to Heaven if we are only limmited to earth ? Why would God make Heaven so appealing and so Majestic if we are never to leave from being born as earthly creatures over and over?

Would it not be a better reward to come back as a dolphin who has a higher mental capabilites than humans ?

[paulie walnuts]

^lol what is your copy/paste of "Questions for Hindus" doing in this thread?

a) it is off-topic

b) religious discussion is banned here

[Bajrang Bali]

haha his username has the word logical in it

[Logical_Uzi]

Rules gone abit tougher? my mistake! who cares if i copied and pasted what idiot would type it out when you going to say more or less the same thing...

Bajrang Bali why not have a go and answer them Qs ;)

Since religious discussion is banned, what about privately? whisper?

[paulie walnuts]

Rules gone abit tougher? my mistake! who cares if i copied and pasted what idiot would type it out when you going to say more or less the same thing...
it is a good indication of what types of websites you look at and your biases.

Since religious discussion is banned, what about privately? whisper?
was that supposed to be a joke?

again, your post is clearly off-topic...it appears you just really wanted to paste some stuff from your anti-hindu bookmarks. ;)

[Bajrang Bali]

Rules gone abit tougher? my mistake! who cares if i copied and pasted what idiot would type it out when you going to say more or less the same thing...

Bajrang Bali why not have a go and answer them Qs ;)

Since religious discussion is banned, what about privately? whisper?

u couldnt comprehend the answers

[Bajrang Bali]

Rules gone abit tougher? my mistake! who cares if i copied and pasted what idiot would type it out when you going to say more or less the same thing...

Bajrang Bali why not have a go and answer them Qs ;)

Since religious discussion is banned, what about privately? whisper?

u wouldnt be able to comprehend the answers, dont worry, somday ull run into a pole or something

[bad_cheque]

u wouldnt be able to comprehend the answers, dont worry, somday ull run into a pole or something
It will be the logical end without any need for an uzi.

[Himalayan King]

logical uzi u crack me up

ROFLMAO @ "Dolphins with higher mental capacities than humans" :roflbow:


hahahahhahahahahaha duuuuuuuuuuuude please stop ure gonna kill me

[bad_cheque]

logical uzi u crack me up

ROFLMAO @ "Dolphins with higher mental capacities than humans" :roflbow:


hahahahhahahahahaha duuuuuuuuuuuude please stop ure gonna kill me
LOL! Didn't notice it in that diarrheal mess.

I think he should put an uzi to his logic.

[adren@line]

methodman, which era fo Sanskrit are you reffering to?

there is Vedic Sanskrit and modern Sanskrit.
Both are different and modern Sanskrit contains many Dravidian loanwords.

I was reffering to Vedic Sanskrit, which is extremely similar to Avestan, which in turn are similar to the language spoken by the Aryans of Syria.

[methodman535]

methodman, which era fo Sanskrit are you reffering to?

there is Vedic Sanskrit and modern Sanskrit.
Both are different and modern Sanskrit contains many Dravidian loanwords.

I was reffering to Vedic Sanskrit, which is extremely similar to Avestan, which in turn are similar to the language spoken by the Aryans of Syria.

There is no language spoken in Syria related to Sanscrit. Theys peak Arabic and Assyrian there. I wasnt referring to any sanscrit in particular I was just going by what I had heard and read. Maybe you should make a chart to illustrate what you are trying to say since you are so obsessed with this topic. Then it will be easier to attack in the sense less effort and research will be required.

[nvthis]

Its Sanskrit, not Sanscrit.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

As an Afghan myself , I dont get why these Hindus are so obsessed with us , its like they resent us but secretly worship us or something.

[Space-Cowboy]

As an Afghan myself , I dont get why these Hindus are so obsessed with us , its like they resent us but secretly worship us or something.


:sarb: umm no.... nobody worships you...... didn't you hear? Idol worshipping is wrong......








;)











Oh and... for those of you who haven't figured it out..... StreetScholar and Logical Uzi are either:
a) the same person...
b) closely linked somehow...

[nvthis]

As an Afghan myself , I dont get why these Hindus are so obsessed with us , its like they resent us but secretly worship us or something.

:rolleyes:

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

I agree Idol Worshipping is wrong , as I'm Muslim , but I dont understand this creepy obsession Desis have with Afghans and Afghanistan.

half these kids claim they're "pathan" or part "Pathan" but look nothing like Afghans or have any idea of Afghan culture, The other half claim that we were once some citadel for Vedic Culture.

Bottom line is

GET OVER US.

[Himalayan King]

I agree Idol Worshipping is wrong , as I'm Muslim , but I dont understand this creepy obsession Desis have with Afghans and Afghanistan.

half these kids claim they're "pathan" or part "Pathan" but look nothing like Afghans or have any idea of Afghan culture, The other half claim that we were once some citadel for Vedic Culture.

Bottom line is

GET OVER US.

LOL ONE THING YOU PASHTUNS GOTTA UNDERSTAND IS NO ONE CARES ABOUT URE IRANIC BUTTS....DESIS ONLY CARE ABOUT "EASTERN AFGHNISTAN" TO BE SPECIFIC AS THAT AREA HAD THE ANCIENT KSHATRIYA MAHAJANPADAS OF GANDHARA AND KAMBOJA AND A LOT OF GREAT SANSKRIT AN BUDDHISTIC WORKS WERE COMPOSED IN THAT AREA. ITS A KNOWN FACT THAT MODERN HARYANA, PUNJAB, SINDH BALOCHISTAN , AFGHANISTAN AND KASHMIR WERE CENTERS OF VEDIC CULTURE BEFORE IT SPREAD TO OTHER PARTS OF INDIA. THATS WHY WE ARE OBSSESSED. YOU GUYS CAME THERE LATER.

FYI KANDAHAR = GANDHARA

ALSO THE SARASVATI CIVILIZATION SPREAD THROUGH THESE LANDS TOO AND THAST WHY WE CARE ABOUT THESE PLACES, "NOT THE PEOPLE"

NUFF SAID

[Himalayan King]

LOL! Didn't notice it in that diarrheal mess.

I think he should put an uzi to his logic.

naah man lets not make fun of him

its called islamic logic and its a veritable science recognized by all scholars

:rofl:

[Logical_Uzi]

naah man lets not make fun of him

its called islamic logic and its a veritable science recognized by all scholars

:rofl:

If atheist scholars (not islamic) have bought foward proof that x has higher capabilities then y. what more could you ask for as evidence? i too was laughing my ass off at this 'dolphin thinga ma jig' at one time.

For example we all know the earth is round according to science + proof and also universally agreed upon by most if not all scholars in that field, then who would agree that some primative scriptures say the Earth is flat, eclipses are due to demons eating the sun and moon, an elephant/snake supports the earth so that it does not fall down + no proof :rofl:

[paulie walnuts]

If atheist scholars (not islamic) have bought foward proof that x has higher capabilities then y. what more could you ask for as evidence? i too was laughing my ass off at this 'dolphin thinga ma jig' at one time.

For example we all know the earth is round according to science + proof and also universally agreed upon by most if not all scholars in that field, then who would agree that some primative scriptures say the Earth is flat, eclipses are due to demons eating the sun and moon, an elephant/snake supports the earth so that it does not fall down + no proof :rofl:
a muslim talking about scientific inaccuracy in religious texts?

lol there are many books entirely dedicated to bullshit science in the Quran.

[Logical_Uzi]

p.s i didnt mention name of the faith, besides when it comes to science we all know 'Bullshit science' in the abrahmic faiths are more in agreement and more solid in accuracy with it ie the earth is round as well as other scientific data compared the rest of the faiths which are usually off the scale, like which i mentioned in my previous post.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

LOL ONE THING YOU PASHTUNS GOTTA UNDERSTAND IS NO ONE CARES ABOUT URE IRANIC BUTTS....DESIS ONLY CARE ABOUT "EASTERN AFGHNISTAN" TO BE SPECIFIC AS THAT AREA HAD THE ANCIENT KSHATRIYA MAHAJANPADAS OF GANDHARA AND KAMBOJA AND A LOT OF GREAT SANSKRIT AN BUDDHISTIC WORKS WERE COMPOSED IN THAT AREA. ITS A KNOWN FACT THAT MODERN HARYANA, PUNJAB, SINDH BALOCHISTAN , AFGHANISTAN AND KASHMIR WERE CENTERS OF VEDIC CULTURE BEFORE IT SPREAD TO OTHER PARTS OF INDIA. THATS WHY WE ARE OBSSESSED. YOU GUYS CAME THERE LATER.

FYI KANDAHAR = GANDHARA

ALSO THE SARASVATI CIVILIZATION SPREAD THROUGH THESE LANDS TOO AND THAST WHY WE CARE ABOUT THESE PLACES, "NOT THE PEOPLE"

NUFF SAID


*Yawns" hmmm I've been reading this geographically inaccurate philogically fabricated donkey refuse for years. This nonsense is regurgitated on practically every forum and has only books written by people who were hallucinating on soma as a reference.

First off your Philogical errors , the word Gandhara means "odorous territory" or "fragrant land"

Kandahar in Pushto , is a pluralization of the word Kund which means Cavern or Mountainous Cascades , Kandahar in Pushto literally means "Caverns" because the area of Kandahar is located between several mountain chains. Philogically they have nothing to do with Each Other. It is true the Ancient Aryans did in fact live in Afghanistan and pass through towards the Indus Valley. Unfortunately the Vedic Scriptures are of dubious antiquity there is no extant evidence which corroborates with writings of Any Vedic literature during this time.

So please save these nonsensical fantasy tales for the comic books

[Space-Cowboy]

If atheist scholars (not islamic) have bought foward proof that x has higher capabilities then y. what more could you ask for as evidence? i too was laughing my ass off at this 'dolphin thinga ma jig' at one time.

For example we all know the earth is round according to science + proof and also universally agreed upon by most if not all scholars in that field, then who would agree that some primative scriptures say the Earth is flat, eclipses are due to demons eating the sun and moon, an elephant/snake supports the earth so that it does not fall down + no proof :rofl:

Ever heard of metaphors/mythology.... that's all it is, myth. As far as the SCIENCE contained in the Hindu scriptures.... they are VERY real... much of modern medicine and our astrological understanding comes from those texts.

[Logical_Uzi]

Cowboy can you give me the links?

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Ever heard of metaphors/mythology.... that's all it is, myth. As far as the SCIENCE contained in the Hindu scriptures.... they are VERY real... much of modern medicine and our astrological understanding comes from those texts.


um astrology isnt a science, its a cultish practice by which people believe their fate depends on the cosmic alignments. Allbeit the alignments of celestial bodies mutually acts upon each by the magnification of electromagnetic fields created by cosmic bodies;this by no way shape or form is analagous to astrology and determining silly things like whether or not
capricorns are compatible with Bozo the Clown or what have you.

[The Anti Desi]

a muslim talking about scientific inaccuracy in religious texts?

lol there are many books entirely dedicated to bullshit science in the Quran.
I would not say bullshit. There are some details in the Quran that are indeed scientifically feasible.

However, the Quran says there are also miracles and other details that are allegorical....untouchable by human perspective....only God alone can observe or create it.

[The Anti Desi]

As much as some people ahve flawed logic and proof, that is not an excuse to resort to flame.

Keep arguments direct without emotional outcries.

[Space-Cowboy]

um astrology isnt a science, its a cultish practice by which people believe their fate depends on the cosmic alignments. Allbeit the alignments of celestial bodies mutually acts upon each by the magnification of electromagnetic fields created by cosmic bodies;this by no way shape or form is analagous to astrology and determining silly things like whether or not
capricorns are compatible with Bozo the Clown or what have you.


My apologies I meant Astronomy.

[Himalayan King]

*Yawns" hmmm I've been reading this geographically inaccurate philogically fabricated donkey refuse for years. This nonsense is regurgitated on practically every forum and has only books written by people who were hallucinating on soma as a reference.

First off your Philogical errors , the word Gandhara means "odorous territory" or "fragrant land"

Kandahar in Pushto , is a pluralization of the word Kund which means Cavern or Mountainous Cascades , Kandahar in Pushto literally means "Caverns" because the area of Kandahar is located between several mountain chains. Philogically they have nothing to do with Each Other. It is true the Ancient Aryans did in fact live in Afghanistan and pass through towards the Indus Valley. Unfortunately the Vedic Scriptures are of dubious antiquity there is no extant evidence which corroborates with writings of Any Vedic literature during this time.

So please save these nonsensical fantasy tales for the comic books

"Gandhāra (also Ghandara, Ghandahra, Chandahara, and Persian Gandara) is the name of an ancient kingdom in eastern Afghanistan and north-west province of Pakistan. Gandhara was located mainly on southern side of Kabul River. In the east, it extended beyond Indus River and included within its boundaries parts of the valley of Kashmir (Political History of Ancient India, 1996, p 151)."

thats from wiki ( unreliable source but not for basic facts)

nuff said...... u might well be rigth about what kandahar means in pashto...doesnt matter.....its WIDELY accepted by scholars that gandhara consisted of north pakistan and eastern afghanistan and kamboja had parts of eastern afghanistan and a lil central asia too

i am not gonna argue with you about verifiable facts......pick up any book on indology and they will give you this exact explanation

once again pashtuns came MUUUUCHH later so chill....anyway hindu shahi kings controlled east afghnistan as late as the 11th century

[Himalayan King]

p.s i didnt mention name of the faith, besides when it comes to science we all know 'Bullshit science' in the abrahmic faiths are more in agreement and more solid in accuracy with it ie the earth is round as well as other scientific data compared the rest of the faiths which are usually off the scale, like which i mentioned in my previous post.
ok UZI here goes
1. yes the quran has some interesting scientific facts but there is BAERLY anything. while it seems that it definitely hs more cientific facts than the bible, I am not sure that it has more than the torah

2. now coming to indic religions...lol buddy dont even kid me.......there is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUUUCCCHHHHHH stuff out there about VEDIC SCIENCE that i dont even need tot alk about it...you can just google it if you dont wanna buy a book....ALL the stuff that u mention is metaphorical stuff taken OUT OF CONTEXT from some essentially mythological texts known as the puranas

3. i will give you some links to see true vedic sience

4. vedas predate the quran by about 2000 years at least and the kind of scientific facts available in them are far more complex...my words are not empty i will post links soon

5. I am not trying to show that quran is unscientific...only trying to say that the vedic corpus is MORE scientific.

how about this...post ALL the scientific facts mentioned int he quran here and I will do the same for the Vedic corpus. Allright?????

[urbanmix786]

ok UZI here goes
1. yes the quran has some interesting scientific facts but there is BAERLY anything. while it seems that it definitely hs more cientific facts than the bible, I am not sure that it has more than the torah

2. now coming to indic religions...lol buddy dont even kid me.......there is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUUUCCCHHHHHH stuff out there about VEDIC SCIENCE that i dont even need tot alk about it...you can just google it if you dont wanna buy a book....ALL the stuff that u mention is metaphorical stuff taken OUT OF CONTEXT from some essentially mythological texts known as the puranas

3. i will give you some links to see true vedic sience

4. vedas predate the quran by about 2000 years at least and the kind of scientific facts available in them are far more complex...my words are not empty i will post links soon

5. I am not trying to show that quran is unscientific...only trying to say that the vedic corpus is MORE scientific.

how about this...post ALL the scientific facts mentioned int he quran here and I will do the same for the Vedic corpus. Allright?????

lols @ baerly anything, it covers everything.
I never do a half job, and i predicte the coming posts will be long. I'm sure the guy who this question was posed to could have replied, but seeing as I have a copy of the book that speaks in debt by experts on this topic right here on my pc, I might as well just copy and paste it up. I'm aware that there has been a ban on religious topics, but a question has been asked and it's only fair to reply. If i get a ban for it it's cool, seeing as I rarely post anyway.

Dr Zakir Naik is the orator (doctor and Islamic scholar). Every point is backed with scientific proof and commentaries by leading experts in those fields. The verses of the Quran used are translated by famous Yusuf Ali who has wan prizes for being the most accurate translator.

The scientific fact in the Quran include: Astronomy, Physics Geography, Geology, Oceanology, Biology, Botany Zoology, Medicine, Physiology, Embryology and on General science. Everything is proven to be accurate, modern science has only been able to with the help of technology discover these scientific facts recently, and here is a illiterate man living in the desert age writing about these phenomena’s . how could an illiterate man in the 7th century know all of this?


I. ASTRONOMY
CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE: ‘THE BIG BANG’
The creation of the universe is explained by astrophysicists in a widely accepted phenomenon, popularly known as the ‘Big Bang’. It is supported by observational and experimental data gathered by astronomers and astrophysicists for decades. According to the ‘Big Bang’, the whole universe was initially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon, etc. The origin of the universe was unique and the probability of it occurring by ‘chance’ is zero. The Qur’aan contains the following verse, regarding the origin of the universe: "Do not the Unbelievers see That the heavens and the earth Were joined together (as one Unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder?" [Al-Qur’aan 21:30]
The striking congruence between the Qur’aanic verse and the ‘Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book, which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

THERE WAS AN INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE THE CREATION OF GALAXIES
Scientists say that before the galaxies in the universe were formed, celestial matter was initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short, huge gaseous matter or clouds were present before the formation of the galaxies. To describe initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more appropriate than gas. The following Qur’aanic verse refers to this state of the universe by the word dhukhan which means smoke.
"Moreover, He Comprehended In His design the sky, And it had been (as) smoke: He said to it And to the earth: ‘Come ye together, Willingly or unwillingly.’ They said: ‘We do come (Together), in willing obedience.’" [Al-Qur’aan 41:11]
Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to the Arabs during the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). What then, could have been the source of this knowledge?

THE SPHERICAL SHAPE OF THE EARTH
In early times, people believed that the earth is flat. For centuries, men were afraid to venture out too far, lest they should fall off the edge. Sir Francis Drake was the first person who proved that the earth is spherical when he sailed around it in 1597. Consider the following Qur’aanic verse regarding the alternation of day and night: "Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day And He merges Day into Night?" [Al-Qur’aan 31:29]
Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night.
The following verse also alludes to the spherical shape of the earth: "He created the heavens And the earth In true (proportions): He makes the Night Overlap the Day, and the Day Overlap the Night." [Al-Qur’aan 39:5]
The Arabic word used here is Kawwara meaning ‘to overlap’ or ‘to coil’– the way a turban is wound around the head. The overlapping or coiling of the day and night can only take place if the earth is spherical.
The earth is not exactly round like a ball, but geo-spherical i.e. it is flattened at the poles. The following verse contains a description of the earth’s shape:
"And the earth, moreover, Hath He made egg shaped." [Al-Qur’aan 79:30] [The Arabic word dahaha has been translated by A. Yusuf Ali as "vast expanse", which also is correct. The word dahaha also means an ostrich-egg.]
The Arabic word for egg here is dahaha, which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth. Thus the Qur’aan correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’aan was revealed was that the earth is flat.

THE LIGHT OF THE MOON IS REFLECTED LIGHT
It was believed by earlier civilizations that the moon emanates its own light. Science now tells us that the light of the moon is reflected light. However this fact was mentioned in the Qur’aan 1,400 years ago in the following verse:
"Blessed is He Who made Constellations in the skies, And placed therein a Lamp And a Moon giving light." [Al-Qur’aan 25:61]

The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’aan, is shams. It is referred to as siraaj, which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj which means ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’aan as muneer, which is a body that gives nur i.e. light. Again, the Qur’aanic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon, which does not give off light itself and is an inert body that reflects the light of the sun. Not once in the Qur’aan, is the moon mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya or the sun as nur or muneer. This implies that the Qur’aan recognizes the difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight.

Consider the following verses related to the nature of light from the sun and the moon: "It is He who made the sun To be a shining glory And the moon to be a light (Of beauty)." [Al-Qur’aan 10:5]

"See ye not How Allah has created The seven heavens One above another, "And made the moon A light in their midst, and made the sun As a (Glorious) Lamp?" [Al-Qur’aan 71:15-16]

[urbanmix786]

THE SUN ROTATES
For a long time European philosophers and scientists believed that the earth stood still in the center of the universe and every other body including the sun moved around it. In the West, this geocentric concept of the universe was prevalent right from the time of Ptolemy in the second century B.C. In 1512, Nicholas Copernicus put forward his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary Motion, which asserted that the sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system with the planets revolving around it.
In 1609, the German scientist Yohannus Keppler published the ‘Astronomia Nova’. In this he concluded that not only do the planets move in elliptical orbits around the sun, they also rotate upon their axes at irregular speeds. With this knowledge it became possible for European scientists to explain correctly many of the mechanisms of the solar system including the sequence of night and day.

After these discoveries, it was thought that the Sun was stationary and did not rotate about its axis like the Earth. I remember having studied this fallacy from Geography books during my school days. Consider the following Qur’aanic verse: "It is He Who created The Night and the Day, And the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) Swim along, each in its Rounded course." [Al-Qur’aan 21:33]
The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahûn . The word yasbahûn is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use the word for a man on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would mean he is walking or running. If you use the word for a man in water it would not mean that he is floating but would mean that he is swimming.
Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun it would not mean that it is only flying through space but would mean that it is also rotating as it goes through space. Most of the school textbooks have incorporated the fact that the sun rotates about its axis. The rotation of the sun about its own axis can be proved with the help of an equipment that projects the image of the sun on the table top so that one can examine the image of the sun without being blinded. It is noticed that the sun has spots which complete a circular motion once every 25 days i.e. the sun takes approximately 25 days to rotate around its axis.
In fact, the sun travels through space at roughly 150 miles per second, and takes about 200 million years to complete one revolution around the center of our Milky Way Galaxy.
"It is not permitted To the Sun to catch up The Moon, nor can The Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along In (its own) orbit (According to Law)." [Al-Qur’aan 36:40]

This verse mentions an essential fact discovered by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion. The ‘fixed place’ towards, which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located exactly by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Layer) whose exact location is firmly established.
The moon rotates around its axis in the same duration that it takes to revolve around the earth. It takes approximately 29½ days to complete one rotation. One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Qur’aanic verses. Should we not ponder over the question: "What was the source of knowledge contained in the Qur’aan?"

THE SUN WILL EXTINGUISH AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD
The light of the sun is due to a chemical process on its surface that has been taking place continuously for the past five billion years. It will come to an end at some point of time in the future when the sun will be totally extinguished leading to extinction of all life on earth. Regarding the impermanence of the sun’s existence the Qur’aan says: "And the Sun Runs its course For a period determined For it; that is The decree of (Him) The exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." [Al-Qur’aan 36:38] [A similar message is conveyed in the Qur’an in 13:2, 35:13, 39:5 and 39:21]
The Arabic word used here is mustaqarr, which means a place or time that is determined. Thus the Qur’aan says that the sun runs towards a determined place, and will do so only up to a pre-determined period of time – meaning that it will end or extinguish.

THE PRESENCE OF INTERSTELLAR MATTER
Space outside organized astronomical systems was earlier assumed to be a vacuum . Astrophysicists later discovered the presence of bridges of matter in this interstellar space. These bridges of matter are called plasma, and consist of completely ionized gas containing equal number of free electrons and positive ions. Plasma is sometimes called the fourth state of matter (besides the three known states viz. solid, liquid and gas). The Qur’aan mentions the presence of this interstellar material in the following verse: "He Who created the heavens And the earth and all That is between." [Al-Qur’aan 25:59]
It would be ridiculous, for anybody to even suggest that the presence of interstellar galactic material was known 1400 years ago.

THE EXPANDING UNIVERSE
In 1925, an American astronomer by the name of Edwin Hubble, provided observational evidence that all galaxies are receding from one another, which implies that the universe is expanding. The expansion of the universe is now an established scientific fact. This is what Al-Qur’aan says regarding the nature of the universe: "With the power and skill Did We construct The Firmament: For it is We Who create The vastness of Space." [Al-Qur’aan 51:47]
The Arabic word [i]mûsi‘ûn[/b] is correctly translated as ‘expanding it’, and it refers to the creation of the expanding vastness of the universe. Stephen Hawking, in his book, ‘A Brief History of Time’, says, "The discovery that the universe is expanding was one of the great intellectual revolutions of the 20th century."
The Qur’aan mentioned the expansion of the universe, before man even learnt to build a telescope! Some may say that the presence of astronomical facts in the Qur’aan is not surprising since the Arabs were advanced in the field of astronomy. They are correct in acknowledging the advancement of the Arabs in the field of astronomy. However they fail to realize that the Qur’aan was revealed centuries before the Arabs excelled in astronomy. Moreover many of the scientific facts mentioned above regarding astronomy, such as the origin of the universe with a Big Bang, were not known to the Arabs even at the peak of their scientific advancement. The scientific facts mentioned in the Qur’aan are therefore not due to the Arabs’ advancement in astronomy. Indeed, the reverse is true. The Arabs advanced in astronomy, because astronomy occupies a place in the Qur’aan.


II. PHYSICS
THE EXISTENCE OF SUBATOMIC PARTICLES
In ancient times a well-known theory by the name of ‘Theory of Atomism’ was widely accepted. This theory was originally proposed by the Greeks, in particular by a man called Democritus, who lived about 23 centuries ago. Democritus and the people that came after him, assumed that the smallest unit of matter was the atom. The Arabs used to believe the same. The Arabic word dharrah most commonly meant an atom. In recent times modern science has discovered that it is possible to split even an atom. That the atom can be split further is a development of the 20th century. Fourteen centuries ago this concept would have appeared unusual even to an Arab. For him the dharrah was the limit beyond which one could not go. The following Qur’aanic verse however, refuses to acknowledge this limit: "The Unbelievers say, ‘Never to us will come The Hour’: say, ‘Nay! But most surely, By my Lord, it will come Upon you – by Him Who knows the unseen – From Whom is not hidden The least little atom In the Heavens or on earth: Nor is there anything less Than that, or greater, but Is in the Record Perspicuous.’" [Al-Qur’aan 34:3] [A similar message is conveyed in the Qur’an in 10:61]
This verse refers to the Omniscience of God, His knowledge of all things, hidden or apparent. It then goes further and says that God is aware of everything, including what is smaller or bigger than the atom. Thus the verse clearly shows that it is possible for something smaller than the atom to exist, a fact discovered only recently by modern science.

[urbanmix786]

III. GEOGRAPHY
THE WATER CYCLE
In 1580, Bernard Palissy was the first man to describe the present day concept of ‘water cycle’. He described how water evaporates from the oceans and cools to form clouds. The clouds move inland where they rise, condense and fall as rain. This water gathers as lakes and streams and flows back to the ocean in a continuous cycle. In the 7th century B.C., Thales of Miletus believed that surface spray of the oceans was picked up by the wind and carried inland to fall as rain. In earlier times people did not know the source of underground water. They thought the water of the oceans, under the effect of winds, was thrust towards the interior of the continents. They also believed that the water returned by a secret passage, or the Great Abyss. This passage is connected to the oceans and has been called the ‘Tartarus’, since Plato’s time. Even Descartes, a great thinker of the eighteenth century, subscribed to this view. Till the nineteenth century, Aristotle’s theory was prevalent. According to this theory, water was condensed in cool mountain caverns and formed underground lakes that fed springs. Today, we know that the rainwater that seeps into the cracks of the ground is responsible for this.

The water cycle is described by the Qur’aan in the following verses: "Seest thou not that Allah Sends down rain from The sky, and leads it Through springs in the earth? Then He causes to grow, Therewith, produce of various Colours." [Al-Qur’aan 39:21]
"He sends down rain From the sky And with it gives life to The earth after it is dead: Verily in that are Signs For those who are wise." [Al-Qur’aan 30:24]
"And We send down water From the sky according to (Due) measure, and We cause it To soak in the soil; And We certainly are able To drain it off (with ease)." [Al-Qur’aan 23:18]

No other text dating back 1400 years ago gives such an accurate description of the water cycle.

WINDS IMPREGNATE THE CLOUDS
"And We send the fecundating winds, Then cause the rain to descend From the sky, therewith providing You with water (in abundance)." [Al-Qur’aan 15:22]
The Arabic word used here is lawâqih, which is the plural of laqih from laqaha, which means to impregnate or fecundate. In this context, impregnate means that the wind pushes the clouds together increasing the condensation that causes lightning and thus rain. A similar description is found in the Qur’aan: "It is Allah Who sends The Winds, and they raise The Clouds: then does He Spread them in the sky As He wills, and break them Into fragments, until thou seest Raindrops issue from the midst Thereof: then when He has Made them reach such Of His servants as He wills, Behold, they do rejoice!" [Al-Qur’aan 30:48]
The Qur’aanic descriptions are absolutely accurate and agree perfectly with modern data on hydrology. The water cycle is described in several verses of the Glorious Qur’aan, including 3:9, 7:57, 13:17, 25:48- 49, 36:34, 50:9-11, 56:68-70, 67:30 and 86:11.
IV. GEOLOGY
MOUNTAINS ARE LIKE PEGS (STAKES)
In Geology, the phenomenon of ‘folding’ is a recently discovered fact. Folding is responsible for the formation of mountain ranges. The earth’s crust, on which we live, is like a solid shell, while the deeper layers are hot and fluid, and thus inhospitable to any form of life. It is also known that the stability of the mountains is linked to the phenomenon of folding, for it was the folds that were to provide foundations for the reliefs that constitute the mountains. Geologists tell us that the radius of the Earth is about 3,750 miles and the crust on which we live is very thin, ranging between 1 to 30 miles. Since the crust is thin, it has a high possibility of shaking. Mountains act like stakes or tent pegs that hold the earth’s crust and give it stability. The Qur’aan contains exactly such a description in the following verse: "Have We not made The earth as a wide Expanse, And the mountains as pegs?" [Al-Qur’aan 78:6-7]
The word awtad means stakes or pegs (like those used to anchor a tent); they are the deep foundations of geological folds. A book named ‘Earth’ is considered as a basic reference textbook on geology in many universities around the world. One of the authors of this book is Frank Press, who was the President of the Academy of Sciences in the USA for 12 years and was the Science Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter. In this book he illustrates the mountain in a wedge-shape and the mountain itself as a small part of the whole, whose root is deeply entrenched in the ground. [Earth, Press and Siever, p. 435. Also see Earth Science, Tarbuck and Lutgens, p. 157] According to Dr. Press, the mountains play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.
The Qur’aan clearly mentions the function of the mountains in preventing the earth from shaking: "And We have set on the earth Mountains standing firm, Lest it should shake with them." [Al-Qur’aan 21:31]
The Qur’aanic descriptions are in perfect agreement with modern geological data.
MOUNTAINS FIRMLY FIXED
The surface of the earth is broken into many rigid plates that are about 100 km in thickness. These plates float on a partially molten region called aesthenosphere. Mountain formations occur at the boundary of the plates. The earth’s crust is 5 km thick below oceans, about 35 km thick below flat continental surfaces and almost 80 km thick below great mountain ranges. These are the strong foundations on which mountains stand. The Qur’aan also speaks about the strong mountain foundations in the following verse: "And the mountains Hath He firmly fixed." [Al-Qur’aan 79:32] [A similar message is contained in the Qur’an in 88:19, 31:10 and 16:15]

V. OCEANOLOGY
BARRIER BETWEEN SWEET AND SALT WATERS
Consider the following Qur’aanic verses: "He has let free the two bodies Of flowing water, Meeting together: Between them is a Barrier Which they do not transgress." [Al-Qur’aan 55:19-20]
In the Arabic text the word barzakh means a barrier or a partition. This barrier is not a physical partition. The Arabic word maraja literally means ‘they both meet and mix with each other’. Early commentators of the Qur’aan were unable to explain the two opposite meanings for the two bodies of water, i.e. they meet and mix, and at the same time, there is a barrier between them. Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity and density. [Principles of Oceanography, Davis, pp. 92-93] Oceanologists are now in a better position to explain this verse. There is a slanted unseen water barrier between the two seas through which water from one sea passes to the other.
But when the water from one sea enters the other sea, it loses its distinctive characteristic and becomes homogenized with the other water. In a way this barrier serves as a transitional homogenizing area for the two waters. This scientific phenomenon mentioned in the Qur’aan was also confirmed by Dr. William Hay who is a well-known marine scientist and Professor of Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado, U.S.A. The Qur’aan mentions this phenomenon also in the following verse: "And made a separating bar between the two bodies Of flowing water?" [Al-Qur’aan 27:61]
This phenomenon occurs in several places, including the divider between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic Ocean at Gibralter. But when the Qur’aan speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of "a forbidding partition" with the barrier."It is He Who has Let free the two bodies Of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, And the other salty and bitter; Yet has He Made a barrier between them, And a partition that is forbidden To be passed." [Al-Qur’aan 25:53]
Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt-water meet, the situation is somewhat different from that found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a "pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers." [Oceanography, Gross, p. 242. Also see Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301.] This partition (zone of separation) has salinity different from both the fresh water and the salt water. [Oceanography, Gross, p. 244 and Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301.]
This phenomenon occurs in several places, including Egypt, where the river Nile flows into the Mediterranean Sea.

DARKNESS IN THE DEPTHS OF THE OCEAN
Prof. Durga Rao is an expert in the field of Marine Geology and was a professor at King Abdul Aziz University in Jeddah. He was asked to comment on the following verse: "Or (the Unbelievers’ state) Is like the depths of darkness In a vast deep ocean, Overwhelmed with billow Topped by billow, Topped by (dark) clouds: Depths of darkness, one Above another: if a man Stretches out his hand, He can hardly see it! For any to whom Allah Giveth not light, there is no light!" [Al-Qur’aan 24:40]
Prof. Rao said that scientists have only now been able to confirm, with the help of modern equipment that there is darkness in the depths of the ocean. Humans are unable to dive unaided underwater for more than 20 to 30 meters, and cannot survive in the deep oceanic regions at a depth of more than 200 meters. This verse does not refer to all seas because not every sea can be described as having accumulated darkness layered one over another. It refers especially to a deep sea or deep ocean, as the Qur’aan says, "darkness in a vast deep ocean". This layered darkness in a deep ocean is the result of two causes:

[urbanmix786]

Damn! I am not even half way done, it will be too long if I past it all up. Just will paste the verses of the Quran that coincide with modern science. If you want the commentaries pm me.
VI. BIOLOGY
EVERY LIVING THING IS MADE OF WATER
Consider the following Qur’aanic verse: "Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one Unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" [Al-Qur’aan 21:30]
: "And Allah has created Every animal from water." [Al-Qur’aan 24:45]
The following verse refers to the creation of human beings from water: "It is He Who has Created man from water: Then has He established Relationships of lineage And marriage: for thy Lord Has power (over all things)." [Al-Qur’aan 25:54]
VII. BOTANY
PLANTS CREATED IN PAIRS, MALE AND FEMALE
Previously humans did not know that plants too have male and female gender distinctions. Botany states that every plant has a male and female gender. Even the plants that are unisexual have distinct elements of both male and female. "‘And has sent Down water from the sky.’ With it have We produced Diverse pairs of plants Each separate from the others." [Al-Qur’aan 20:53]

FRUITS CREATED IN PAIRS, MALE AND FEMALE
"And fruit Of every kind He made In pairs, two and two." [Al-Qur’aan 13:3]

EVERYTHING MADE IN PAIRS
"And of everything We have created pairs." [Al-Qur’aan 51:49]
This refers to things other than humans, animals, plants and fruits. It may also be referring to a phenomenon like electricity in which the atoms consist of negatively – and positively – charged electrons and protons.
"Glory to Allah, Who created In pairs all things that The earth produces, as well as Their own (human) kind And (other) things of which They have no knowledge." [Al-Qur’aan 36:36]


VIII. ZOOLOGY
ANIMALS AND BIRDS LIVE IN COMMUNITIES
"There is not an animal (That lives) on the earth, Nor a being that flies On its wings, but (forms Part of) communities like you." [Al-Qur’aan 6:38]
Research has shown that animals and birds live in communities, i.e. they organize, and live and work together.
THE FLIGHT OF BIRDS
Regarding the flight of birds the Qur’aan says: "Do they not look at The birds, held poised In the midst of (the air And) the sky? Nothing Holds them up but (the power Of) Allah. Verily in this Are Signs for those who believe." [Al-Qur’aan 16:79]
A similar message is repeated in the Qur’aan in the verse: "Do they not observe The birds above them, Spreading their wings And folding them in? None can uphold them Except (Allah) Most Gracious: Truly it is He That watches over all things." [Al-Qur’aan 67:19]

THE BEE
"And thy Lord taught the Bee To build its cells in hills, On trees, and in (men’s) habitations; Then to eat of all The produce (of the earth), And find with skill the spacious Paths of its Lord." [Al-Qur’aan 16:68-69]
Von-Frisch received the Nobel Prize in 1973 for his research on the behaviour and communication of the bees. The bee, after discovering any new garden or flower, goes back and tells its fellow bees the exact direction and map to get there, which is known as ‘bee dance’. The meanings of this insect’s movements that are intended to transmit information between worker bees have been discovered scientifically using photography and other methods. The Qur’aan mentions in the above verse how the bee finds with skill the spacious paths of its Lord.
The worker bee or the soldier bee is a female bee. In Soorah Al-Nahl chapter no. 16, verses 68 and 69 the gender used for the bee is the female gender (fa’slukî and kulî), indicating that the bee that leaves its home for gathering food is a female bee.

SPIDER’S WEB / HOME IS FRAGILE
The Qur’aan mentions in Soorah Al-‘Ankabût, "The parable of those who Take protectors other than Allah Is that of the Spider, Who builds (to itself) A house; but truly The flimsiest of houses Is the Spider’s house – If they but knew." [Al-Qur’aan 29:41]
Besides giving the physical description of the spider’s web as being very flimsy, delicate and weak, the Qur’aan also stresses on the flimsiness of the relationship in the spider’s house, where the female spider many a times kills its mate, the male spider.

LIFESTYLE AND COMMUNICATION OF ANTS
Consider the following Qur’aanic verse: "And before Solomon were marshaled His hosts – of Jinns and men And birds, and they were all Kept in order and ranks. "At length, when they came To a (lowly) valley of ants, One of the ants said: ‘O ye ants, get into Your habitations, lest Solomon And his hosts crush you (Under foot) without knowing it.’" [Al-Qur’aan 27:17-18]

In the past, some people would have probably mocked at the Qur’aan, taking it to be a fairy tale book in which ants talk to each other and communicate sophisticated messages. In recent times, research has shown us several facts about the lifestyle of ants, which were not known earlier to humankind. Research has shown that the animals or insects whose lifestyle is closest in resemblance to the lifestyle of human beings are the ants. This can be seen from the following findings regarding ants:
(a) The ants bury their dead in a manner similar to the humans.
(b) They have a sophisticated system of division of labour, whereby they have managers, supervisors, foremen, workers, etc.
(c) Once in a while they meet among themselves to have a ‘chat’.
(d) They have an advanced method of communication among themselves.
(e) They hold regular markets wherein they exchange goods.
(f) They store grains for long periods in winter and if the grain begins to bud, they cut the roots, as if they understand that if they leave it to grow, it will rot. If the grains stored by them get wet due to rains, they take these grains out into the sunlight to dry, and once these are dry, they take them back inside as though they know that humidity will cause development of root systems and thereafter rotting of the grain.

IX. MEDICINE
HONEY HAS HEALING PROPERTIES
The bee assimilates juices of various kinds of flowers and fruit and forms within its body the honey, which it stores in its cells of wax. Only a couple of centuries ago man came to know that honey comes from the belly of the bee. This fact was mentioned in the Qur’aan 1,400 years ago in the following verse: "There issues From within their bodies A drink of varying colours, Wherein is healing for men." [Al-Qur’aan 16:69]
Due to the density of honey, no fungus or bacteria would grow in the wound. A person suffering from an allergy of a particular plant may be given honey from that plant so that the person develops resistance to that allergy. Honey is rich in fructose and vitamin K. Thus the knowledge contained in the Qur’aan regarding honey, its origin and properties, was far ahead of the time it was revealed.

[/b]X. PHYSIOLOGY (LONG)
BLOOD CIRCULATION AND THE PRODUCTION OF MILK[/b]
XI. EMBRYOLOGY
MAN IS CREATED FROM ALAQ
A LEECH-LIKE SUBSTANCE


MAN CREATED FROM A DROP EMITTED FROM BETWEEN THE BACK BONE AND THE RIBS
"Now let man but think From what he is created! He is created from A drop emitted – Proceeding from between The back bone and the ribs." [Al-Qur’aan 86:5-7]
In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male and female, i.e. the testicles and the ovaries, begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend; the female gonads (ovaries) stop in the pelvis while the male gonads (testicles) continue their descent before birth to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal. Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the backbone (spinal column) and the ribs. Even the lymphatic drainage and the venous return goes to the same area.

HUMAN BEINGS CREATED FROM NUTFAH
(Minute Quantity of Liquid)
HUMAN BEINGS CREATED FROM SULALAH
(Quintessence of liquid)
"And made his progeny From a quintessence Of the nature of A fluid despised." [Al-Qur’aan 32:8]
MAN CREATED FROM NUTFATUN AMSHAAJ
(Mingled liquids)
Consider the following Qur’aanic verse: "Verily We created Man from a drop Of mingled sperm." [Al-Qur’aan 76:2]
SEX DETERMINATION
The sex of a fetus is determined by the nature of the sperm and not the ovum. The sex of the child, whether female or male, depends on whether the 23rd pair of chromosomes is XX or XY respectively. Primarily sex determination occurs at fertilization and depends upon the type of sex chromosome in the sperm that fertilizes an ovum. If it is an ‘X’ bearing sperm that fertilizes the ovum, the fetus is a female and if it is a ‘Y’ bearing sperm then the fetus is a male. "That He did create In pairs – male and female, From a seed when lodged (In its place)." [Al-Qur’aan 53:45-46]

FOETUS PROTECTED BY THREE VEILS OF DARKNESS
"He makes you, In the wombs of your mothers, In stages, one after another, In three veils of darkness." [Al-Qur’aan 39:6]
According to Prof. Keith Moore these three veils of darkness in the Qur’aan refer to:
(i) anterior abdominal wall of the mother
(ii) the uterine wall
(iii) the amnio-chorionic membrane.

EMBRYONIC STAGES very long
EMBRYO PARTLY FORMED AND PARTLY UNFORMED

[urbanmix786]

PHYSIOLOGY

BLOOD CIRCULATION AND THE PRODUCTION OF MILK

The Qur’aan was revealed 600 years before the Muslim scientist Ibn Nafees described the circulation of the blood and 1,000 years before William Harwey brought this understanding to the Western world. Roughly thirteen centuries before it was known what happens in the intestines to ensure that organs are nourished by the process of digestive absorption, a verse in the Qur’aan described the source of the constituents of milk, in conformity with these notions.

To understand the Qur’aanic verse concerning the above concepts, it is important to know that chemical reactions occur in the intestines and that, from there, substances extracted from food pass into the blood stream via a complex system; sometimes by way of the liver, depending on their chemical nature. The blood transports them to all the organs of the body, among which are the milk-producing mammary glands.

In simple terms, certain substances from the contents of the intestines enter into the vessels of the intestinal wall itself, and these substances are transported by the blood stream to the various organs.

This concept must be fully appreciated if we wish to understand the following verse in the Qur’aan: "And verily in cattle there is A lesson for you. We give you to drink Of what is inside their bodies, Coming from a conjunction Between the contents of the Intestine and the blood, A milk pure and pleasant for Those who drink it." [Al-Qur’aan 16:66] [Translation of this Qur’anic verse is from the book "The Bible, the Qur’an and Science" by Dr. Maurice Bucaille]

"And in cattle (too) ye Have an instructive example: From within their bodies We produce (milk) for you To drink; there are, in them, (Besides), numerous (other) Benefits for you; And of their (meat) ye eat." [Al-Qur’aan 23:21]

The Qur’aanic description of the production of milk in cattle is strikingly similar to what modern physiology has discovered.


SENSE OF HEARING AND SIGHT
The first sense to develop in a developing human embryo is hearing. The foetus can hear sounds after the 24th week. Subsequently, the sense of sight is developed and by the 28th week, the retina becomes sensitive to light. Consider the following Qur’aanic verses related to the development of the senses in the embryo: "And He gave You (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (And understanding)." [Al-Qur’aan 32:9]
"Verily We created Man from a drop Of mingled sperm, In order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), Of Hearing and Sight." [Al-Qur’aan 76:2]
"It is He Who has created For you (the faculties of) Hearing, sight, feeling And understanding: little thanks It is ye give!" [Al-Qur’aan 23:78]
In all these verses the sense of hearing is mentioned before that of sight. Thus the Qur’aanic description matches with the discoveries in modern embryology.

XII. GENERAL SCIENCE
FINGERPRINTS
"Does man think that We Cannot assemble his bones? Nay, We are able to put Together in perfect order The very tips of his fingers." [Al-Qur’aan 75:3-4]
Unbelievers argue regarding resurrection taking place after bones of dead people have disintegrated in the earth and how each individual would be identified on the Day of Judgement. Almighty Allah answers that He can not only assemble our bones but can also reconstruct perfectly our very fingertips.
Why does the Qur’aan, while speaking about determination of the identity of the individual, speak specifically about fingertips? In 1880, fingerprinting became the scientific method of identification, after research done by Sir Francis Golt. No two persons in the world can ever have exactly the same fingerprint pattern. That is the reason why police forces worldwide use fingerprints to identify the criminal. 1400 years ago, who could have known the uniqueness of each human’s fingerprint? Surely it could have been none other than the Creator Himself!

PAIN RECEPTORS PRESENT IN THE SKIN

CONCLUSION
To attribute the presence of scientific facts in the Qur’aan to coincidence would be against common sense and a true scientific approach. The Qur’aan invites all humans to reflect on the Creation of this universe in the verse: "Behold! In the creation Of the heavens and the earth, And the alternation Of Night and Day – There are indeed Signs For men of understanding." [Al-Qur’aan 3:190]
The scientific evidences of the Qur’aan clearly prove its Divine Origin. No human could have produced a book, fourteen hundred years ago, that would contain profound scientific facts, to be discovered by humankind centuries later. The Qur’aan, however, is not a book of Science but a book of ‘Signs’. These signs invite Man to realize the purpose of his existence on earth, and to live in harmony with Nature. The Qur’aan is truly a message from Allah, the Creator and Sustainer of the universe. It contains the same message of the Oneness of God, that was preached by all prophets, right from Adam, Moses, Jesus to Muhammad (peace be upon them).

This booklet contains only a few of the scientific facts present in the Qur’aan.

[nvthis]

Just post links?

[typeOnegative]

Method,

Is there a more 'reliable' source than your Brahmin friend on which you can base your assertion? Panini codified Sanskrit grammar. I doubt if he overhauled it. And while I can applaud your motives in taking on @drenaline, it would pay to be a bit more objective out here. And yeah, don't mind Mr. Hanuman.

The discussion was going fine till we had this -

If Mrs. Juppy converts to Budduism in India
:sarb: Now what the *uck is that? LOL. A religion for fools?

Urban, wow! :D

Can you guys get off your religious chest thumping? Please.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

"Gandhāra (also Ghandara, Ghandahra, Chandahara, and Persian Gandara) is the name of an ancient kingdom in eastern Afghanistan and north-west province of Pakistan. Gandhara was located mainly on southern side of Kabul River. In the east, it extended beyond Indus River and included within its boundaries parts of the valley of Kashmir (Political History of Ancient India, 1996, p 151)."

thats from wiki ( unreliable source but not for basic facts)

nuff said...... u might well be rigth about what kandahar means in pashto...doesnt matter.....its WIDELY accepted by scholars that gandhara consisted of north pakistan and eastern afghanistan and kamboja had parts of eastern afghanistan and a lil central asia too

i am not gonna argue with you about verifiable facts......pick up any book on indology and they will give you this exact explanation

once again pashtuns came MUUUUCHH later so chill....anyway hindu shahi kings controlled east afghnistan as late as the 11th century

Himalayan see even this article proves lot of what you said before wrong , because Kandahar is in South Central Afghanistan. I'm not denying Eastern Afghanistan was inhabited by Indic peoples , but Pashtuns conquered them and eventually drove them to either Nuristan or into the Indus. Thats why I said your argument was wrong because it was geographically inaccurate.

[Himalayan King]

Himalayan see even this article proves lot of what you said before wrong , because Kandahar is in South Central Afghanistan. I'm not denying Eastern Afghanistan was inhabited by Indic peoples , but Pashtuns conquered them and eventually drove them to either Nuristan or into the Indus. Thats why I said your argument was wrong because it was geographically inaccurate.
yup i never said that the present kandahar is the ancient gandahara...only that the name coudl very well be dervied from it as the preetn kandahar was contained in teh mahajanpada of gandhara. and you are right, the nuristani are the last indo-aryan people left in afghanistan...they also have more "aryan" blood than most desis ( whatever that is lol)

[Himalayan King]

Urbanmix

good post....i will go through the whole thing and respond to it....just want to add that when i said barely i didnt mean 2-3 facts lol.....every religious tradition has its share of scientific facts....i meant that in RELATIVE terms...still u have definitely posted a little more than i expected....my previous encounter was on an islmaic science website and they didnt mention this much.....

so yup wait fro my response and then see me post stuff about vedic science please dont say that "facts" are straned because i could say the same about most of the stuff you posted...keep an open mind like i am keeping about your post

[adren@line]

methodman,. they found records of hinhdu like <aryans in syria dating to 1500bc.

they worshipped <hindu gods and spoke a sanskrit like language.


and to the afghan chic


indian dont really care about afghans.
if anything,. afghans are obsesed witgh indians, hence why bollywood is extremely popular in afghanistan.

:o

[dutsqg]

methodman,. they found records of hinhdu like <aryans in syria dating to 1500bc.

they worshipped <hindu gods and spoke a sanskrit like language.


and to the afghan chic


indian dont really care about afghans.
if anything,. afghans are obsesed witgh indians, hence why bollywood is extremely popular in afghanistan.

:o

Not to mention
If desis were obsessed with being Afghan

Than desis would be trying to learn and speak pashto and be all about the afghan culture


Instead its Afghans who try to speak or speak urdu/hindi, and are immensely immersed in bollywood culture

[dutsqg]

I agree Idol Worshipping is wrong , as I'm Muslim , but I dont understand this creepy obsession Desis have with Afghans and Afghanistan.

half these kids claim they're "pathan" or part "Pathan" but look nothing like Afghans or have any idea of Afghan culture, The other half claim that we were once some citadel for Vedic Culture.

Bottom line is

GET OVER US.

Hey buddy

If desis were obsessed with afghan culture

we would be trying to learn pashto and speaking it and be listening to all of your music and culture


Instead its afghan folks either learning hindi/urdu or ALREADY know how to speak it
And its also them who are submersed immensley in the bollywood culture and obsessed with bolywood stars


As for those fake ass Khans, those guys are fucking annoying

They are like "both sides of my family are khans"

and i ask them

"can you speak pashto"

adn tehy say 'No,we only speak urdu"


and its usually girls that tell me this, so i dont want to rain on their parade, but im usually thinking "in that case you are pretty damn not pathan"

Its annoying because "khans" think they are special when in actuality 3 generations tehir family changed their last name to "khan" just because it was cool and now they think they are some half assed fake pathans


ahhhhhhh so stupid lol

[paulie walnuts]

Hey buddy

If desis were obsessed with afghan culture

we would be trying to learn pashto and speaking it and be listening to all of your music and culture


Instead its afghan folks either learning hindi/urdu or ALREADY know how to speak it
And its also them who are submersed immensley in the bollywood culture and obsessed with bolywood stars


As for those fake ass Khans, those guys are fucking annoying

They are like "both sides of my family are khans"

and i ask them

"can you speak pashto"

adn tehy say 'No,we only speak urdu"


and its usually girls that tell me this, so i dont want to rain on their parade, but im usually thinking "in that case you are pretty damn not pathan"

Its annoying because "khans" think they are special when in actuality 3 generations tehir family changed their last name to "khan" just because it was cool and now they think they are some half assed fake pathans


ahhhhhhh so stupid lol
that is not a good indicator.

there are tons of kashmiri pandit families who settled in delhi after being kicked out of kashmir....many of their children speak only hindi and little to no kashur. are they any less kashmiri? would their future children be any less kashmiri? you can't convert ethnicities by switching languages.

however, you are right in the fact that there are tons and tons of desi muslims that claim false ancestries to reflect afghan/persian/arab heritage.

[dutsqg]

that is not a good indicator.

there are tons of kashmiri pandit families who settled in delhi after being kicked out of kashmir....many of their children speak only hindi and little to no kashur. are they any less kashmiri? would their future children be any less kashmiri? you can't convert ethnicities by switching languages.

however, you are right in the fact that there are tons and tons of desi muslims that claim false ancestries to reflect afghan/persian/arab heritage.

yeah man you cant compare this 'khan' epidemic with the whole kashmiri thing

becuse you and i both know that a good chunk of these 'khans' do not resemble pashtun in any shape or form.

For the most part, their parents are from hyderabad,their grand parents are from hyderabad,the next set of grandparenst are from hyderabad, and it just keeps going
And for the most part , many of them dont even know that pathan is a corruption of the word "pashttun" and that most pashtuns come from Peshawar and Kandahar


According to pakhtunwali, the code of pashtun, you are not pashtun unless you can at leat understand pashto


and for the most part the way i see it is,if you dont at least have familiy in the pashtun areas, than your lineage is probably a made up lie to cover up you hindu past

[nvthis]

yeah man you cant compare this 'khan' epidemic with the whole kashmiri thing

becuse you and i both know that a good chunk of these 'khans' do not resemble pashtun in any shape or form.

For the most part, their parents are from hyderabad,their grand parents are from hyderabad,the next set of grandparenst are from hyderabad, and it just keeps going
And for the most part , many of them dont even know that pathan is a corruption of the word "pashttun" and that most pashtuns come from Peshawar and Kandahar


According to pakhtunwali, the code of pashtun, you are not pashtun unless you can at leat understand pashto


and for the most part the way i see it is,if you dont at least have familiy in the pashtun areas, than your lineage is probably a made up lie to cover up you hindu past

Many muslims of the sub-continent deny that they had hindu ancestors which most of them had. :neutral:

[dutsqg]

Many muslims of the sub-continent deny that they had hindu ancestors which most of them had. :neutral:
many muslims and sikhs

have you seen the animosity any muslim or sikh has if you ever mention anything about their hindu past?

Its like as if it is blasphemy when in fact, it is true

No mater if you're a 'khan' 'syed'

whatever etc

Even Pakhtun of afghianistan were bhuddist and hindu

So it doesnt matter, you cfan be a syed,but that still leaves you with 98% lineage in the blood of hindu ancestors

[nvthis]

many muslims and sikhs

have you seen the animosity any muslim or sikh has if you ever mention anything about their hindu past?

Its like as if it is blasphemy when in fact, it is true

No mater if you're a 'khan' 'syed'

whatever etc

Even Pakhtun of afghianistan were bhuddist and hindu

So it doesnt matter, you cfan be a syed,but that still leaves you with 98% lineage in the blood of hindu ancestors

Yup, even sikhs, but this is more common in desi's living abroad. I, as a sikh, acknowledge by hindu ancestors.

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Hey buddy

If desis were obsessed with afghan culture

we would be trying to learn pashto and speaking it and be listening to all of your music and culture


Instead its afghan folks either learning hindi/urdu or ALREADY know how to speak it
And its also them who are submersed immensley in the bollywood culture and obsessed with bolywood stars


As for those fake ass Khans, those guys are fucking annoying

They are like "both sides of my family are khans"

and i ask them

"can you speak pashto"

adn tehy say 'No,we only speak urdu"


and its usually girls that tell me this, so i dont want to rain on their parade, but im usually thinking "in that case you are pretty damn not pathan"

Its annoying because "khans" think they are special when in actuality 3 generations tehir family changed their last name to "khan" just because it was cool and now they think they are some half assed fake pathans


ahhhhhhh so stupid lol

You guys are trying to learn Pashto , in fact in fact you guys are trying to make movies which have some reference to AFghanistan or Pashtun style dress. As you said Indians start claiming their grand dad or their Dad was Pashtun or from Peshawar. It's common actors claim they're Pathan. IN fact your Shalwar Kamiz is actually of AFghan origin , believe it or not.

Indian Government is try to fortify its Pashtu language resources so in an attempt to gain some sphere of influence in Afghanistan, to gain Pashtun sympathy. Especially it's military and diplomatic departments.

Half of the Pakis on here seem to claim they're either part Pathan or to be Pathan, yet have no idea of Pashtun culture , and their physical characteristics.

The only Afghans who like Bollywood stuff are just the low class people in Urban centers like Mazar Sharif or Kabul, and largely because they think these Indian actresses are basically prostitutes. I wouldn't call that obsession , although it's very disgraceful of them to take interest in it.

Yet here you guys are wishing your ancient Vedic ancestors Were kindled in Afghanistan. Trying to link yourselves to Pashtuns and Pashtu. I dont see any Afghan who's trying to find LINKS between themselves and India, and if such a person does exist they're a VERY VERY VERY narrow minority.

[NumbaOneStunna]

Somalis and ethiopians are our real ancestors. We should all sing their praises

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

yup i never said that the present kandahar is the ancient gandahara...only that the name coudl very well be dervied from it as the preetn kandahar was contained in teh mahajanpada of gandhara. and you are right, the nuristani are the last indo-aryan people left in afghanistan...they also have more "aryan" blood than most desis ( whatever that is lol)


In Nuristan there are 2 types of people , Dardic peoples and Indic , Indic people have basically adopted Dari/Farsi and Dardic people have adopted Pashtu as their primary language but still can speak their Nuristani Dardic languages. However depending on how you categorize Indo-Aryan. It is in fact Pashtuns who are more Aryan than all other groups in Afghanistan since Northern Afghanistan has strong turkic and mongolian strains. Pashtuns are the ones who have the strongest consistency of Aryan lineage. Pashto is in fact one of the oldest living Aryan languages , it is directly descended from Avestan.

[nvthis]

You guys are trying to learn Pashto , in fact in fact you guys are trying to make movies which have some reference to AFghanistan or Pashtun style dress. As you said Indians start claiming their grand dad or their Dad was Pashtun or from Peshawar. It's common actors claim they're Pathan. IN fact your Shalwar Kamiz is actually of AFghan origin , believe it or not.

Indian Government is try to fortify its Pashtu language resources so in an attempt to gain some sphere of influence in Afghanistan, to gain Pashtun sympathy. Especially it's military and diplomatic departments.

Half of the Pakis on here seem to claim they're either part Pathan or to be Pathan, yet have no idea of Pashtun culture , and their physical characteristics.

The only Afghans who like Bollywood stuff are just the low class people in Urban centers like Mazar Sharif or Kabul, and largely because they think these Indian actresses are basically prostitutes. I wouldn't call that obsession , although it's very disgraceful of them to take interest in it.

Yet here you guys are wishing your ancient Vedic ancestors Were kindled in Afghanistan. Trying to link yourselves to Pashtuns and Pashtu. I dont see any Afghan who's trying to find LINKS between themselves and India, and if such a person does exist they're a VERY VERY VERY narrow minority.

Iran/Afghanistan and India have both contributed to each others culture for thousands of years, as recent as the Mughal Invasion.

In 14 years of living in India, I have not come across one Indian who claims to be of Afghan lineage. There are many afghanis who like bollywood, even in my school here but whats wrong in that? You speak as if it could be the worst possible thing an Afghani could do.

These countries do have similarities and do share history as much as people from both sides try to deny it. Many desi muslims claim pashtun lineage because they dont like to think that they had hindu ancestors. I've never seen an Hindu or a Sikh on this board claim pashtun lineage.

[Street_Scholar]

Oh and... for those of you who haven't figured it out..... StreetScholar and Logical Uzi are either:
a) the same person...
b) closely linked somehow...


And how the fuck did you come to that conclusion?
And how about we do this yeah? we ask the admin? he can do an IP check. Then I'll have irrefutable proof that you're stupid. And I suppose the reason why you're wearing a hat in that picture is obviously because you're trying to hide the psychosurgery scars, hay change your name to madcow it will be more fitting to your posting style.

[Irreligious Left]

You guys are trying to learn Pashto , in fact in fact you guys are trying to make movies which have some reference to AFghanistan or Pashtun style dress. As you said Indians start claiming their grand dad or their Dad was Pashtun or from Peshawar. It's common actors claim they're Pathan. IN fact your Shalwar Kamiz is actually of AFghan origin , believe it or not.

Indian Government is try to fortify its Pashtu language resources so in an attempt to gain some sphere of influence in Afghanistan, to gain Pashtun sympathy. Especially it's military and diplomatic departments.

Half of the Pakis on here seem to claim they're either part Pathan or to be Pathan, yet have no idea of Pashtun culture , and their physical characteristics.

The only Afghans who like Bollywood stuff are just the low class people in Urban centers like Mazar Sharif or Kabul, and largely because they think these Indian actresses are basically prostitutes. I wouldn't call that obsession , although it's very disgraceful of them to take interest in it.

Yet here you guys are wishing your ancient Vedic ancestors Were kindled in Afghanistan. Trying to link yourselves to Pashtuns and Pashtu. I dont see any Afghan who's trying to find LINKS between themselves and India, and if such a person does exist they're a VERY VERY VERY narrow minority.


Hmmm. Here I thought Afghanistan was the red-headed, retarded step-child of South Asia, but apparently everyone wants to be Afghan. Go figure.

[Space-Cowboy]

And how the fuck did you come to that conclusion?
And how about we do this yeah? we ask the admin? he can do an IP check. Then I'll have irrefutable proof that you're stupid. And I suppose the reason why you're wearing a hat in that picture is obviously because you're trying to hide the psychosurgery scars, hay change your name to madcow it will be more fitting to your posting style.


Looks like someone's gettin' a little TOO defensive.... ;)

And what good will IP checks do if you go to a different computer/location everytime you log on as 'Uzi'? And yes, I DO believe you're pathetic enough to do just that...

[Street_Scholar]

Looks like someone's gettin' a little TOO defensive.... ;)

And what good will IP checks do if you go to a different computer/location everytime you log on as 'Uzi'? And yes, I DO believe you're pathetic enough to do just that...


Am not going to waste my time, and play kinder garden games on the Internet. I have a life outside of this forum, unlike you. My life doesn't revolve around this forum. Just shut up an go listen to Adnam Sammi or what ever you Indians do.

[Space-Cowboy]

Am not going to waste my time, and play kinder garden games on the Internet. I have a life outside of this forum, unlike you. My life doesn't revolve around this forum. Just shut up an go listen to Adnam Sammi or what ever you Indians do.


Yes.... his life outside the forums outweighs mine..... this coming from a guy whose post count is twice mine..... Word to the wise there, English Wiz, it's [kindergarden] - one word....

[Street_Scholar]

Yes.... his life outside the forums outweighs mine..... this coming from a guy whose post count is twice mine..... Word to the wise there, English Wiz, it's [kindergarden] - one word....

Kindergarten - is just another stupid American/Canadian word to me. My post count is high because I can think faster then you and also type faster then you.

Any before someone acts a smart ass and says "well you have a paid member account" I won it (the subscription) in a essay competition.

[nvthis]

Kindergarten - is just another stupid American/Canadian word to me. My post count is high because I can think faster then you and also type faster then you.

Any before someone acts a smart ass and says "well you have a paid member account" I won it (the subscription) in a essay competition.

no offence, but u just owned yourself there.

[Space-Cowboy]

Kindergarten - is just another stupid American/Canadian word to me. My post count is high because I can think faster then you and also type faster then you.

Any before someone acts a smart ass and says "well you have a paid member account" I won it (the subscription) in a essay competition.



Ding Ding Ding... you've just won "Most Retarded Poster" award....

I actually got a good laugh out of reading the above. So... lemme get this straight... you're SOO smart... that you spam post after post after post... with.... surprisingly quick typing speed?


I don't even know where to begin to correct the complete disregard for logic in the crap that you just wrote....


Not to mention that fact that your life SOO doesn't revolve around the forums that you had time to write an essay for a competition for the purpose of a paid subscription? [Which I believe to be bullshit anyway, but whatever].







gg no re k thx bye noob

[dutsqg]

In Nuristan there are 2 types of people , Dardic peoples and Indic , Indic people have basically adopted Dari/Farsi and Dardic people have adopted Pashtu as their primary language but still can speak their Nuristani Dardic languages. However depending on how you categorize Indo-Aryan. It is in fact Pashtuns who are more Aryan than all other groups in Afghanistan since Northern Afghanistan has strong turkic and mongolian strains. Pashtuns are the ones who have the strongest consistency of Aryan lineage. Pashto is in fact one of the oldest living Aryan languages , it is directly descended from Avestan.
Like I said

I've never met one indian trying to learn pashto

your claims you make on india trying to fortify pashto is probably just a conspiracy theory


And by the way, I like how you are here for dawaa, and I am pretty sure Dawaa doesn't imply making bullshit posts like this


But I do agree on those Half assed "pathans"


Basically if a person says they are pathan, they aren't ,because a true pashtun wouldnt say pathan, they would say 'pashtun " or "pakhtun"

[Himalayan King]

In Nuristan there are 2 types of people , Dardic peoples and Indic , Indic people have basically adopted Dari/Farsi and Dardic people have adopted Pashtu as their primary language but still can speak their Nuristani Dardic languages. However depending on how you categorize Indo-Aryan. It is in fact Pashtuns who are more Aryan than all other groups in Afghanistan since Northern Afghanistan has strong turkic and mongolian strains. Pashtuns are the ones who have the strongest consistency of Aryan lineage. Pashto is in fact one of the oldest living Aryan languages , it is directly descended from Avestan.
i disagree

pashtuns have iranian blood while nuristanis are indo-aryan...rea a description of them anywhere...they have lighter features than pashtuns in general...although pashtuns are taller

we had a pashtun in my school in india....directly form afghanistan...name was mustafa raza....about 5'10" but strong as hell...he could pick up lil guys with one arm off the ground!!!!! like doing a 100 lb front deltoid raise lolz

[Himalayan King]

And how the fuck did you come to that conclusion?
And how about we do this yeah? we ask the admin? he can do an IP check. Then I'll have irrefutable proof that you're stupid. And I suppose the reason why you're wearing a hat in that picture is obviously because you're trying to hide the psychosurgery scars, hay change your name to madcow it will be more fitting to your posting style.
a lil elf told me you spend "9 hours a day on the internet" because you are "writing a book".......how's that coming along????

lolz :wavey:

[Himalayan King]

Am not going to waste my time, and play kinder garden games on the Internet. I have a life outside of this forum, unlike you. My life doesn't revolve around this forum. Just shut up an go listen to Adnam Sammi or what ever you Indians do.

lol FYI its kinder GARTEN.....its german :p

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Like I said

I've never met one indian trying to learn pashto

your claims you make on india trying to fortify pashto is probably just a conspiracy theory


And by the way, I like how you are here for dawaa, and I am pretty sure Dawaa doesn't imply making bullshit posts like this


But I do agree on those Half assed "pathans"


Basically if a person says they are pathan, they aren't ,because a true pashtun wouldnt say pathan, they would say 'pashtun " or "pakhtun"

Duts come to Afghansite forums , there are Indians who just wont leave us alone, one keeps trying to ploy Pashtun sympathy for India , they assume just because Afghans hate Pakistan that every Afghan is ready to be India's best friend. As for conspiracy theory , no this is true India is trying to develop its Pashto resources is trying to gain Pashtun connections. The Pundits are trying to claim Pashtuns were descendants of Rajputs etc etc etc etc etc. The list goes on and on. I dont care I just notice this trend where everyone wishes they were Afghan or Pathan/Pashtun

[AFGHAN_ZMARAI]

Hmmm. Here I thought Afghanistan was the red-headed, retarded step-child of South Asia, but apparently everyone wants to be Afghan. Go figure.


THAT MIGHT have been true if only you guys werent conquered by practically every Nation thats encountered you , including AFGHANS. But hey forget the fact that Sher Shah Suri ,Bahlol Lodhi and Ahmad Shah Abdali, had conquered large sections of South Asia. Forget the fact your shalwar kamiz is merely a rendition of Peran Tomban. I guess being colonized by People who came half way around the world and having a out of control AIDS epidemic makes one "not retarded" these days?

[nvthis]

^Yes, we have been conquered many times but its funny, that your great afghanistan who produced such mighty rulers, is pretty fucked up today than India which was plundered so many times.

[Himalayan King]

THAT MIGHT have been true if only you guys werent conquered by practically every Nation thats encountered you , including AFGHANS. But hey forget the fact that Sher Shah Suri ,Bahlol Lodhi and Ahmad Shah Abdali, had conquered large sections of South Asia. Forget the fact your shalwar kamiz is merely a rendition of Peran Tomban. I guess being colonized by People who came half way around the world and having a out of control AIDS epidemic makes one "not retarded" these days?
i agree with nvthis

when white people dont act important when we wear western clothes ( like all the time :D) then why do you take importance when MOSTLY muslims wear salwaar kameez??????

u conquered only PARTS of india in medeival times, whiel on the other hand indo-aryans RULED afghanistan and inhabited it for mUUUUCHHHHH longer..... not just hindus, remember the buddhists???????? lol u were the ones stealing our culture more 100s of years....haha the irony

[nvthis]

i agree with nvthis

when white people dont act important when we wear western clothes ( like all the time :D) then why do you take importance when MOSTLY muslims wear salwaar kameez??????

u conquered only PARTS of india in medeival times, whiel on the other hand indo-aryans RULED afghanistan and inhabited it for mUUUUCHHHHH longer..... not just hindus, remember the buddhists???????? lol u were the ones stealing our culture more 100s of years....haha the irony

Naw man, Ofcourse they dint have hindu/buddhist ancestors duh!!!11

[Himalayan King]

Naw man, Ofcourse they dint have hindu/buddhist ancestors duh!!!11

oh shite ure right i guess i'm mistaken :sarb:

[Irreligious Left]

THAT MIGHT have been true if only you guys werent conquered by practically every Nation thats encountered you , including AFGHANS. But hey forget the fact that Sher Shah Suri ,Bahlol Lodhi and Ahmad Shah Abdali, had conquered large sections of South Asia. Forget the fact your shalwar kamiz is merely a rendition of Peran Tomban. I guess being colonized by People who came half way around the world and having a out of control AIDS epidemic makes one "not retarded" these days?

That all may be true but it doesn't discount from the fact that modernly, Afghanistan is a chaotic third-tier third world shit-hole that has the dubious distinction of making the rest of South Asia, not just India, look like paradise in comparison. I guess it's natural that you would want to live and past and talk of old glories from long ago.

Here's lovely downtown Kabul for you:

http://host.uniroma3.it/facolta/politiche/peacekeeping/news/fratini/veduta%20di%20kabul%20.jpg

[bad_cheque]

That all may be true but it doesn't discount from the fact that modernly, Afghanistan is a chaotic third-tier third world shit-hole that has the dubious distinction of making the rest of South Asia, not just India, look like paradise in comparison. I guess it's natural that you would want to live and past and talk of old glories from long ago.

Here's lovely downtown Kabul for you:

http://host.uniroma3.it/facolta/politiche/peacekeeping/news/fratini/veduta%20di%20kabul%20.jpg
I respect you but I find this post a bit too mean.

Afghanistan was made a battleground by the two sides in the cold war. It was done deliberately with extremely detailed planning on both sides. This is what happens. Bloody games are played on the backs of poor people.

Afghan Zmarai or whatever. Almost 99.99% of Indians don't care about any neighbouring country except Pakistan. Pakistan is noticed only for being a troublemaker. Moreover, Indians are not confused about their identity (racial or any other) like the expatriate Indians that are posting here. Whether you want to accept the fact that your ancestors followed another religion before converting to Islam is up to you. Good luck. Now be off.

[Himalayan King]

I respect you but I find this post a bit too mean.

Afghanistan was made a battleground by the two sides in the cold war. It was done deliberately with extremely detailed planning on both sides. This is what happens. Bloody games are played on the backs of poor people.

Afghan Zmarai or whatever. Almost 99.99% of Indians don't care about any neighbouring country except Pakistan. Pakistan is noticed only for being a troublemaker. Moreover, Indians are not confused about their identity (racial or any other) like the expatriate Indians that are posting here. Whether you want to accept the fact that your ancestors followed another religion before converting to Islam is up to you. Good luck. Now be off.
i beg to differ

so many foreigners SHAT on us indians but look at us!!!!!!

losers will be losers

[hey_jay37]

That all may be true but it doesn't discount from the fact that modernly, Afghanistan is a chaotic third-tier third world shit-hole that has the dubious distinction of making the rest of South Asia, not just India, look like paradise in comparison. I guess it's natural that you would want to live and past and talk of old glories from long ago.

Here's lovely downtown Kabul for you:

http://host.uniroma3.it/facolta/politiche/peacekeeping/news/fratini/veduta%20di%20kabul%20.jpg
LOL

[kaisar2]

geneology is irrelevent, and would be extremely hard to compile.

Trying to convince a shitload of hardcore Pathans that they were Hindus and Buddhists a long time ago, AND trying to convince them to give someone a detailed family tree that proved this would also be next to impossible (im guessing , anyways).

Indo-Aryan = the group of Aryan migrants whos last destination was India.

Iranics/Iranians = group of Aryan migrants whos final destination was Iran/Afghanistan and the surrounding Iranic countries.

Indo-Aryan does not = Indian. The Indo-Aryans also settled in Syria for a brief time, as they spoke a Sanskrit like language and worshipped Hindu gods.

The Aryans migrated in waves, and at different points in time, so genetics would be irrelevent. For those that believe in an Aryan race, they were probably the same racially.

My post is about the original Afghan and Persian cultures being a product of the Indo-Aryans, and not of the Iranics. I am basing my conclusions on cultural and religious traits.
even if we shitload of hardcore pathans were a shitload of YOU hindus of primitive time , wht win will u achieve after proving it, u come out of nowhere telling rd tht hindu religion is something supreme and oldest, tell u wht we all know the later , now get over it and grow up

[Street_Scholar]

Ding Ding Ding... you've just won "Most Retarded Poster" award....

I actually got a good laugh out of reading the above. So... lemme get this straight... you're SOO smart... that you spam post after post after post... with.... surprisingly quick typing speed?


I don't even know where to begin to correct the complete disregard for logic in the crap that you just wrote....


Not to mention that fact that your life SOO doesn't revolve around the forums that you had time to write an essay for a competition for the purpose of a paid subscription? [Which I believe to be bullshit anyway, but whatever].







gg no re k thx bye noob

Look man you're just the clown of this forum and you have face that matches. So just shut the crap-up.

[Street_Scholar]

lol FYI its kinder GARTEN.....its german :p


You dumb, shit look at my second post after that. And honestly I couldn't give a yellow flying monkey fuck what it was.

[Street_Scholar]

a lil elf told me you spend "9 hours a day on the internet" because you are "writing a book".......how's that coming along????

lolz :wavey:


a little chimp, told me he was going to send me a link to this "academic work" funny enough that little chimp, decided to avoid me after that, because he was talking out of his little chimp ass. Come to think of it, that chimp was you.

[Street_Scholar]

i beg to differ

so many foreigners SHAT on us indians but look at us!!!!!!

losers will be losers


And, what is India the Aids capital of Asia something to be proud of? lol

[Street_Scholar]

Here are Average Afghani Kids:

http://deploymentlink.osd.mil/news/dquarterly/spring03/images/afghan_kids2.jpg

http://www.afghansforafghans.org/img/Kabulgirlincap_150.jpg

http://www.redcross.org/news/in/afghanistan/images/kids.jpg

http://www.medecinsdumonde.co.uk/kids/images/afghan2.jpg

And here are the Dark Skinned Indian Hindu kids:
http://www.oasisdesign.net/images/img_mauruata/KidsOnSwing6855.jpg

http://www.teaching-abroad.co.uk/images/images_08applynow/pic_indian-kids.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1650000/images/_1653666_kids300.jpg

http://www.sulaadventures.com/bigtripphotos/Banderas%20Bay%20(23).jpg


So guys you can argue all the fuck you want, but the pictures say it all!

[Space-Cowboy]

Look man you're just the clown of this forum and you have face that matches. So just shut the crap-up.


.....funny coming from a guy who once had a pic up but had to take it down cuz people told him he looked like Giligan's helper monkey....

If I'm the forum clown, you're the forum troll.

[Street_Scholar]

.....funny coming from a guy who once had a pic up but had to take it down cuz people told him he looked like Giligan's helper monkey....

If I'm the forum clown, you're the forum troll.

Yeah, everything is a flame. If it exposes discrepancies in your ludicrous posts.