The Legacy of Jihad in India

[adren@line]

The Legacy of Jihad in India
July 2nd, 2005


The phenomenon of modern Islamic terrorism has forged an inchoate strategic alliance between the Israeli and Indian governments, while heightening the awareness of a common threat—the institution of jihad—among the civilian populations of these nations.

Rarely understood, let alone acknowledged, however, is the history of brutal jihad conquest, Muslim colonization, and the imposition of dhimmitude shared by the Jews of historical Palestine, and the Hindus of the Indian subcontinent. Moreover, both peoples and nations also have in common, a subsequent, albeit much briefer British colonial legacy, which despite its own abuses, abrogated the system of dhimmitude (permanently for Israel and India, if not, sadly, for their contemporary Muslim neighboring states), and created the nascent institutions upon which thriving democratic societies have been constructed. Sir Jadunath Sarkar (d. 1958), the preeminent historian of Mughal India, wrote with admiration in 1950 of what the Jews of Palestine had accomplished once liberated from the yoke of dhimmitude. The implication was clear that he harbored similar hopes for his own people.

Palestine, the holy land of the Jews, Christians and Islamites, had been turned into a desert haunted by ignorant poor diseased vermin rather than by human beings, as the result of six centuries of Muslim rule. (See Kinglake's graphic description). Today Jewish rule has made this desert bloom into a garden, miles of sandy waste have been turned into smiling orchards of orange and citron, the chemical resources of the Dead Sea are being extracted and sold, and all the amenities of the modern civilised life have been made available in this little Oriental country. Wise Arabs are eager to go there from the countries ruled by the Shariat. This is the lesson for the living history. [1]

Earlier, I reviewed at length the legacy of Muslim jihad conquest and imposition of the Shari’a in historical Palestine. The current essay provides a schematic overview of the same phenomena in India, focusing on the major periods of Muslim conquest, colonization, and rule.

A Millennium of Jihad and Dhimmitude on the Indian Subcontinent

The 570 year period between the initial Arab Muslim razzias (ordered by Caliph Umar) to pillage Thana (on the West Indian coast near Maharashtra) in 636-637 C.E., and the establishment of the Delhi Sultanate (under Qutub-ud-din Aibak, a Turkish slave soldier), can be divided into four major epochs: (I) the conflict between the Arab invaders and the (primarily) Hindu resisters on the Western coast of India from 636-713 C.E.; (II) the Arab and Turkish Muslim onslaughts against the kingdom of Hindu Afghanistan during 636-870 C.E.; (III) repeated Turkish efforts to subdue the Punjab from 870 C.E. to 1030 C.E. C.E. highlighted by the devastating campaigns of Mahmud of Ghazni (from 1000- 1030 C.E.); and finally (IV) Muhammad Ghauri’s conquest of northwestern India and the Gangetic valley between 1175 and 1206 C.E. [2]

This summary chronology necessarily overlooks the very determined and successful resistance that was offered by the Hindus to both the Arab (in particular) and Turkish invaders, for almost four centuries. For example, despite the rapidity of Mahmud of Ghazni’s conquests—spurred by shock-tactics and the religious zealotry of Islamic jihad—his successors, for almost 150 years, could not extend their domain beyond the Punjab frontiers. Even after the establishment of the Delhi Sultanate (1206-1526), and the later Mughal Empire (1526-1707), Muslim rulers failed to Islamize large swaths of Indian territory, and most of the populace. [3] The first Mughal Emperor, Babur (1483-1530), made these relevant observations upon establishing his rule in India: [4]

[Hindustan] is a different world…once the water of Sindh is crossed, everything is in the Hindustan way- land, water, tree, rock, people, and horde, opinion and custom…Most of the inhabitants of Hindustan are pagans; they call a pagan a Hindu.

Buddhist civilization within India, in stark contrast, proved far less resilient. Vincent Smith has described the devastating impact of the late 12th century jihad razzias against the Buddhist communities of northern India, centered around Bihar, based on Muslim sources, exclusively: [5]

The Muhammadan historian, indifferent to distinctions among idolators, states that the majority of the inhabitants were “clean shaven Brahmans”, who were all put to the sword. He evidently means Buddhist monks, as he was informed that the whole city and fortress were considered to be a college, which the name Bihar signifies. A great library was scattered. When the victors desired to know what the books might be no man capable of explaining their contents had been left alive. No doubt everything was burnt. The multitude of images used in Medieval Buddhist worship always inflamed the fanaticism of Muslim warriors to such fury that no quarter was given to the idolators. The ashes of the Buddhist sanctuaries at Sarnath near Benares still bear witness to the rage of the image breakers. Many noble monuments of the ancient civilization of India were irretrievably wrecked in the course of the early Muhammadan invasions. Those invasions were fatal to the existence of Buddhism as an organized religion in northern India, where its strength resided chiefly in Bihar and certain adjoining territories. The monks who escaped massacre fled, and were scattered over Nepal, Tibet, and the south. After A.D. 1200 the traces of Buddhism in upper India are faint and obscure.

Three major waves of jihad campaigns (exclusive of the jihad conquest of Afghanistan) which succeeded, ultimately, in establishing a permanent Muslim dominion within India, i.e., the Delhi Sultanate, are summarized in the following discussion. The imposition of dhimmitude upon the vanquished Hindu populations is also characterized, in brief.

The Muslim chroniclers al-Baladhuri (in Kitab Futuh al-Buldan) and al-Kufi (in the Chachnama) include enough isolated details to establish the overall nature of the conquest of Sindh by Muhammad b. Qasim in 712 C.E. [6] These narratives, and the processes they describe, make clear that the Arab invaders intended from the outset to Islamize Sindh by conquest, colonization, and local conversion. Baladhuri, for example, records that following the capture of Debal, Muhammad b. Qasim earmarked a section of the city exclusively for Muslims, constructed a mosque, and established four thousand colonists there. [7] The conquest of Debal had been a brutal affair, as summarized from the Muslim sources by Majumdar. [8]

[adren@line]

Despite appeals for mercy from the besieged Indians (who opened their gates after the Muslims scaled the fort walls), Muhammad b. Qasim declared that he had no orders (i.e., from his superior al-Hajjaj, the Governor of Iraq) to spare the inhabitants, and thus for three days a ruthless and indiscriminate slaughter ensued. In the aftermath, the local temple was defiled, and “700 beautiful females who had sought for shelter there, were all captured”. The capture of Raor was accompanied by a similar tragic outcome. [9]

Muhammad massacred 6000 fighting men who were found in the fort, and their followers and dependents, as well as their women and children were taken prisoners. Sixty thousand slaves, including 30 young ladies of royal blood, were sent to Hajjaj, along with the head of Dahar [the Hindu ruler]. We can now well understand why the capture of a fort by the Muslim forces was followed by the terrible jauhar ceremony (in which females threw themselves in fire kindled by themselves), the earliest recorded instance of which is found in the Chachnama.

Practical, expedient considerations lead Muhammad to desist from carrying out the strict injunctions of Islamic Law [10] and the wishes of al-Hajjaj [11] by massacring the (pagan) infidel Hindus of Sindh. Instead, he imposed upon the vanquished Hindus the jizya and associated restrictive regulations of dhimmitude. As a result, the Chachnama records, “some [Hindus] resolved to live in their native land, but others took flight in order to maintain the faith of their ancestors, and their horses, domestics, and other property” [12] Thus a lasting pattern was set that would persist, as noted by Majumdar, until the Mughal Empire collapsed at the end of Aurangzeb’s reign (in 1707), [13]

…of Muslim policy towards the subject Hindus in subsequent ages. Something no doubt depended upon individual rulers; some of them adopted a more liberal, others a more cruel and intolerant attitude. But on the whole the framework remained intact, for it was based on the fundamental principle of Islamic theocracy. It recognized only one faith, one people, and one supreme authority, acting as the head of a religious trust. The Hindus, being infidels or non-believers, could not claim the full rights of citizens. At the very best, they could be tolerated as dhimmis, an insulting title which connoted political inferiority…The Islamic State regarded all non-Muslims as enemies, to curb whose growth in power was conceived to be its main interest. The ideal preached by even high officials was to exterminate them totally, but in actual practice they seem to have followed an alternative laid down in the Qur’an [i.e., Q9:29] which calls upon Muslims to fight the unbelievers till they pay the jizya with due humility. This was the tax the Hindus had to pay for permission to live in their ancestral homes under a Muslim ruler.

Mahmud of Ghazni, according to the British historian Sir Henry Elliot, launched some seventeen jihad campaigns into India between 1000 and his death in 1030 C.E. [14] Utbi, Mahmud’s court historian, viewed these expeditions to India as a jihad to propagate Islam and extirpate idolatry. [15] K.S. Lal illustrates this religious zeal to Islamize by force, as manifested during a 23 year period between 1000 and 1023 C.E.: [16]

In his first attack of frontier towns in C.E. 1000 Mahmud appointed his own governors and converted some inhabitants. In his attack on Waihind (Peshawar) in 1001-3, Mahmud is reported to have captured the Hindu Shahiya King Jayapal and fifteen of his principal chiefs and relations some of whom like Sukhpal, were made Musalmans. At Bhera all the inhabitants, except those who embraced Islam, were put to the sword. At Multan too conversions took place in large numbers, for writing about the campaign against Nawasa Shah (converted Sukhpal), Utbi says that this and the previous victory (at Multan) were “witnesses to his exalted state of proselytism.” In his campaign in the Kashmir Valley (1015) Mahmud “converted many infidels to Muhammadanism, and having spread Islam in that country, returned to Ghazni.” In the later campaign in Mathura, Baran and Kanauj, again, many conversions took place. While describing “the conquest of Kanauj,” Utbi sums up the situation thus: “The Sultan levelled to the ground every fort… and the inhabitants of them either accepted Islam, or took up arms against him.” In short, those who submitted were also converted to Islam. In Baran (Bulandshahr) alone 10,000 persons were converted including the Raja. During his fourteenth invasion in 1023 C.E. Kirat, Nur, Lohkot and Lahore were attacked. The chief of Kirat accepted Islam, and many people followed his example.

These continuous jihad campaigns were accompanied by great destruction and acts of wanton cruelty. Utbi describes the slaughter which transpired during the attacks on Thanesar and Sirsawa:

The chief of Thanesar was…obstinate in his infidelity and denial of Allah, so the Sultan marched against him with his valiant warriors for the purpose of planting the standards of Islam and extirpating idolatry… The blood of the infidels flowed so copiously that the stream was discoloured, and people were unable to drink it… Praise be to Allah… for the honour he bestows upon Islam and Musalmans. [17]

[at Sirsawa] The Sultan summoned the most religiously disposed of his followers, and ordered them to attack the enemy immediately. Many infidels were consequently slain or taken prisoners in this sudden attack, and the Musalmans paid no regard to the booty till they had satiated themselves with the slaughter of the infidels… The friends of Allah searched the bodies of the slain for three whole days, in order to obtain booty [18]

[adren@line]

Mahmud’s final well-known expedition in Hindustan, to Somanath in 1025 C.E., was similarly brutal, and destructive:

Mahmud captured the place [Somanath] without much difficulty and ordered a general slaughter in which more than 50,000 persons are said to have perished. The idol of Somanath was broken to pieces which were sent to Ghazni, Mecca, and Medina and cast in streets and the staircases of chief mosques to be trodden by the Muslims going there for their prayers [19]

Over 900 years apart, remarkably concordant assessments of Mahmud’s devastating exploits have been written by the renowned 11th century Muslim scholar Alberuni (a counselor to Mahmud), and the contemporary Indian historian A.L. Srivastava. First Alberuni, from about 1030 C.E.: [20]

Mahmud utterly ruined the prosperity of the country…by which the Hindus became like atoms of dust scattered in all directions, and like a tale of old in the mouth of the people. Their scattered remains cherish of course the most inveterate aversion towards all Muslims. This is the reason too why Hindu sciences have retired far away from those parts of the country conquered by us, and have fled to places which our hand cannot yet reach, to Kashmir, Benares, and other places.

Srivastava in 1950, wrote: [21]

To the Indian world of his day Mahmud was a veritable devil incarnate- a daring bandit, an avaricious plunderer, and wanton destroyer of Art. He plundered many dozens of…flourishing cities; he razed to the ground great temples which were wonderful works of art; he carried thousands of innocent women and children into slavery; he indulged in wanton massacre practically everywhere he went; and…he forcibly converted hundred of…unwilling people to Islam. A conqueror who leaves behind desolate towns and villages and dead bodies of innocent human beings cannot be remembered by posterity by any other title.

K.S. Lal believes that by the late 12th century, Muhammad Ghauri was consummately prepared for the conquest and rule of India. Well-elaborated theological justifications for jihad, and comprehensive writings on India’s geography and sociopolitical culture were readily available to him, complementing his powerful army of Turks, Persians, and Afghans.

He now possessed Alberuni’s India and Burhanuddin’s Hidayah, works which were not available to his predecessor invader. Alberuni’s enecyclopedic work provided to the Islamic world in the eleventh century all that was militarily advantageous to know about India. Equally important was the Hidayah, the most authentic work on the laws of Islam compiled by Shaikh Burhanuddin Ali in the twelfth century. These and similar works, and the military manuals like the Siyasat Nama and Adab-ul-Harb, made the Ghauris and their successors better equipped for the conquest and governance of non-Muslim India. There need be no doubt that such works were made available, meticulously studied and constantly referred to by scholars attached to the courts of Muslim conquerors and kings. [22]

Muhammad Ghauri launched his first expeditions against Multan and Gujarat (in 1175 and 1178 C.E., respectively). By 1191-92 C.E., following Ghauri’s defeat of a Rajput confederation under Prithviraj Chauhan (and Prithviraj Chauhan’s death),

Sirsuti, Samana, Kuhram, and Hansi were captured in quick succession with ruthless slaughter and a general destruction of temples, and their replacement by mosques. The Sultan then proceeded to Ajmer which too witnessed similar scenes. In Delhi an army of occupation was stationed at Indraprastha under the command of Qutub-ud-din Aibak who was to act as Ghauri’s lieutenant in Hindustan. Later on Aibak became the first Sultan of Delhi [23]

Qutub-ud-din Aibak’s accession in 1206 (consistent with Muhammad Ghauri’s desires and plans), marks the founding of the Delhi Sultanate.

Finally, the imposition of Islamic law upon the Hindu populations of India, i.e., their relegation to dhimmi status, beginning with the advent of Muslim rule in 8th century Sindh, had predictable consequences during both the Delhi Sultanate period (1206-1526 C.E.), and the Mughal Empire (1526-1707 C.E.). A.L. Srivastava highlights these germane features of Hindu status during the Delhi Sultanate: [24]

Throughout the period of the Sultanate of Delhi, Islam was the religion of the State. It was considered to be the duty of the Sultan and his government to defend and uphold the principles of this religion and to propagate them among the masses…even the most enlightened among them [the Sultans], like Muhammad bin Tughlaq, upheld the principles of their faith and refused permission to repair Hindu (or Buddhist) temples…Thus even during the reign of the so-called liberal-minded Sultans, the Hindus had no permission to build new temples or to repair old ones. Throughout the period, they were known as dhimmis, that is, people living under guarantee, and the guarantee was that they would enjoy restricted freedom in following their religion if they paid the jizya. The dhimmis were not to celebrate their religious rites openly…and never to do any propaganda on behalf of their religion. A number of disabilities were imposed upon them in matters of State employment and enjoyment of civic rights…It was a practice with the Sultans to destroy the Hindu temples and images therein. Firoz Tughlaq and Sikander Lodi prohibited Hindus from bathing at the ghats [river bank steps for ritual bathers] in the sacred rivers, and encouraged them in every possible way to embrace the Muslim religion. The converts were exempted from the jizya and given posts in the State service and even granted rewards in cash, or by grant of land. In short, there was not only no real freedom for the Hindus to follow their religion, but the state followed a policy of intolerance and persecution. The contemporary Muslim chronicles abound in detailed descriptions of desecration of images and destruction of temples and of the conversion of hundreds and thousands of the Hindus. [Hindu] religious buildings and places bear witness to the iconoclastic zeal of the Sultans and their followers. One has only to visit Ajmer, Mathura, Ayodhya, Banaras and other holy cities to see the half broken temples and images of those times with their heads, faces, hands and feet defaced and demolished.

[adren@line]

Majumdar sees a continuum between the Delhi Sultanate and the subsequent Mughal Empire, regarding the status of the Hindus: [25]

So far as the Hindus were concerned, there was no improvement either in their material and moral conditions or in their relations with the Muslims. With the sole exception of Akbar, who sought to conciliate the Hindus by removing some of the glaring evils to which they were subjected, almost all other Mughal Emperors were notorious for their religious bigotry. The Muslim law which imposed many disabilities and indignities upon the Hindus…and thereby definitely gave them an inferior social and political status, as compared to the Muslims, was followed by these Mughal Emperors (and other Muslim rulers) with as much zeal as was displayed by their predecessors, the Sultans of Delhi. The climax was reached during the reign of Aurangzeb, who deliberately pursued the policy of destroying and desecrating Hindu temples and idols with a thoroughness unknown before or since.

Majumdar also makes this interesting juxtaposition of Hindu cultural advancement under the lengthy period of Muslim colonial rule, compared to the much shorter interval of British colonial rule: [26]

Judged by a similar standard, the patronage and cultivation of Hindu learning by the Muslims, or their contribution to the development of Hindu culture during their rule…pales into insignificance when compared with the achievements of the British rule…It is only by instituting such comparison that we can make an objective study of the condition of the Hindus under Muslim rule, and view it in its true perspective.

Andrew Bostom is an Associate Professor of Medicine, and the author of the forthcoming The Legacy of Jihad on Prometheus Books (2005).

Notes

[1] Jadunath Sarkar “The Condition of Hindus under Muslim Rule”, The Hindusthan Standard, Calcutta, Puja Annual (Deepavali special) 1950.
[2] A.L. Srivastava. “A Survey of India’s Resistance to Medieval Invaders from the North-West: Causes of Eventual Hindu Defeat”, Journal of Indian History, 1965, pp. 349-350.
[3] A.L. Srivastava., The Sultanate of Delhi (711-1526 A.D.) , Agra, 1950, p.127; R.C. Majumdar (editor). The History and Culture of the Indian People, Vol. 6, The Sultanate of Delhi, Bombay, 1960, p.xxiii, states, for example, with regard to the Delhi Sultanate:

The popular notion that after the conquest of Muhammad Ghauri, India formed a Muslim Empire under various dynasties, is hardly borne out by facts…barring the two very short lived empires under the Khaljis and Muhammad bin Tughlaq which lasted respectively, for less than twenty and ten years, there was no Turkish empire of India. The Delhi Sultanate, as the symbol of this empire, continued in name throughout the period under review [i.e., 1206-1526] but, gradually shorn of power and prestige, it was reduced to a phantom by the invasion of Timur at the end of the fourteenth century A.D.

For discussions of the limits of the Mughal Empire, see: A.L. Srivastava.,The History of India (1000 A.D- 1707 A.D.), Agra, 1964, pp. 674-676; and K.S. Lal. Indian Muslims-Who Are They? , New Delhi, 1990, pp. 122-123, 127, 136-137.
[4] Baburnama. Translated by A.S. Beveridge, Lahore, Sangmeel Publications (reprint), 1976, pp. 484,518.
[5] Vincent Smith, The Oxford History of India, Oxford, 1928, p. 221.
[6] Al-Baladhuri. The Origins of the Islamic State (Kitab Futuh Al-Buldan). Part II, Translated by F.C. Murgotten, New York, Columbia University, 1924, pp. 217-224; Al-Kufi. The Chachnama, excerpts translated in H.M. Elliot and J. Dowson. A History of India As Told By Its Own Historians-The Muhammadan Period, 1867-1877 (reprinted 2001, Delhi), Vol. 1, pp. 157-211.
[7] Al-Baladhuri. The Origins of the Islamic State, Part II, p. 218.
[8] R.C. Majumdar (editor). The History and Culture of the Indian People, Vol. 3, The Classical Age, Bombay, 1954, p. 458.
[9] Majumdar, The Classical Age, pp. 458-459.
[10] From a translation of Ziauddin Barani's Fatawa-i Jahandari, circa, 1358-9 C.E., in Mohammad Habib. The political theory of the Delhi sultanate., Allahabad, Kitab Mahal, 1961, pp. 46-47.
[11] Chachnama, Elliot and Dowson, pp. 173-174.
[12] Majumdar, The Classical Age, pp. 460.
[13] Majumdar, The Classical Age, pp. 461-462.
[14] Elliot and Dowson, Vol. II, Appendix Note D, pp. 434-484.
[15] Srivastava. The Sultanate of Delhi, p. 52.
[16] K.S. Lal. The Legacy of Muslim Rule in India, New Delhi, Aditya Prakashan, 1992, pp. 96-97
[17] Elliot and Dowson, Vol. II, 40-41.
[18] Elliot and Dowson, Vol. II, 49.
[19] Srivastava. The Sultanate of Delhi, p. 59.
[20] Alberuni. Alberuni’s India- An Account of the Religion, Philosophy, Literature, Geography, Chronology, Astronomy, Customs, Laws, and Astrology of India (about 1030 C.E), Edited by E.C. Sachau, 1888 (reprinted New Delhi, 1993), p. 22.
[21] Srivastava. The Sultanate of Delhi, p. 61-62.
[22] K.S. Lal. Theory and Practice of Muslim State in India, New Delhi, Aditya Prakashan, 1999, pp.20-21.
[23] Lal. Muslim State in India, p. 21
[24] Srivastava. The Sultanate of Delhi, pp. 304-305.
[25] R.C. Majumdar (editor) The Mughul Empire, Bombay, 1974, p. xi.
[26] Majumdar Vol. 6, The Sultanate of Delhi, p. 623

taken from http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4616

[adren@line]

interesting read.

Im sure alot of people wont believe it, and im sure alot will.

Either way, this information is important, but I dont want this to turn into a flame fest.

So Cunard, if you could, just keep the thread open...

... for now.

[ggggunit]

interesting read.

Im sure alot of people wont believe it, and im sure alot will.

Either way, this information is important, but I dont want this to turn into a flame fest.

So Cunard, if you could, just keep the thread open...

... for now.


This is an interesting read, could you e-mail the links to the sites where you get these articles please.

[adren@line]

I just find em man.

no list.

[ggggunit]

I just find em man.

no list.

where do you find them? give me a link.

[adren@line]

Well, here is some stuff you might find interesting:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4616
http://www.afghanhindu.com/
http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredarticle/hatredofhindus.html
http://voi.org/books/htemples2/ch7.htm
http://www.boloji.com/history/002.htm
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=4649
http://www.answers.com/topic/mahmud-of-ghazna
http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/feb/04kanch.htm

[Kallubaadshah]

translation: blah blah blah i hate muslims blah blah blah

[ShivaChrist]

I gotta give you credit for being brave enough to post stuff like this... a lot of Muslims think that their religion has been nothing but peaceful and either don't know/deny a very violent road. Not to say the other religions weren't violent in and of their own rights, Christianity was a very violent religion for a long time.

[Kallubaadshah]

I gotta give you credit for being brave enough to post stuff like this... a lot of Muslims think that their religion has been nothing but peaceful and either don't know/deny a very violent road. Not to say the other religions weren't violent in and of their own rights, Christianity was a very violent religion for a long time.

was? :neutral:

[methodman535]

translation: blah blah blah i hate muslims blah blah blah
:rofl:

[souwestpaki]

thats a one sided article.

stealing other person's land and then decorating it doesnt justify the stealing

[adren@line]

translation: blah blah blah i hate muslims blah blah blah

I dont hate Muslims.

:eek:

[adren@line]

thats a one sided article.

stealing other person's land and then decorating it doesnt justify the stealing

what?

[souwestpaki]

what?


the fact that israeliz are mostly eastern europeans they stole the land from the real inhabatants paliz

and kashmir which is a muslim land is being forced to be included into india

that article is one sided and makes no sense

[adren@line]

Also keep in mind this article was written by a white guy who is an Associate Professor of Medicine.

No Hindu/Indian bias here.

[Z4K5T4R]

I gotta give you credit for being brave enough to post stuff like this... a lot of Muslims think that their religion has been nothing but peaceful and either don't know/deny a very violent road. Not to say the other religions weren't violent in and of their own rights, Christianity was a very violent religion for a long time.
WTF!

Please could you go and read about Islamic History and the Quran and then tell me what you think about Islam.

On the way please slap yourself for the ignorancy you behold!

It's not the religion its the PEOPLE! If you dn't know the difference between that, please get educated around this sector.

[adren@line]

the fact that israeliz are mostly eastern europeans they stole the land from the real inhabatants paliz

and kashmir which is a muslim land is being forced to be included into india

that article is one sided and makes no sense

Kashmir was traditionally Hindu.

There was a sizeable Hindu population until they were kicked out/murdered, and then waves of non-Kashmiri Muslims moved in to increase the Muslims numbers.

If a bunch of Arabs converted to Hinduism than demanded their own state, the Muslims would kill them off faster than you could say Wa salaam alaikum.

Same concept applies.

Besides, the bulk of this article is about how Muslim invaders treated the natives like crap.

[Z4K5T4R]

translation: blah blah blah i hate muslims blah blah blah
Right on brother!

[Z4K5T4R]

Kashmir was traditionally Hindu.

There was a sizeable Hindu population until they were kicked out/murdered, and then waves of non-Kashmiri Muslims moved in to increase the Muslims numbers.

Besides, the bulk of this article is about how Muslim invaders treated the natives like crap.
I swear i heard a bee flying around my head *bzzzzz bzzzz* *ZAK GRABS THE BEE SQUASHES IT WITH HER HAND,PUTS IT ON HER TABLE GETS A BOOKS AND SMASHES IT AGAINST THE TABLE!*

[adren@line]

I swear i heard a bee flying around my head *bzzzzz bzzzz* *ZAK GRABS THE BEE SQUASHES IT WITH HER HAND,PUTS IT ON HER TABLE GETS A BOOKS AND SMASHES IT AGAINST THE TABLE!*

too much hookah.

:dance3:

[souwestpaki]

Also keep in mind this article was written by a white guy who is an Associate Professor of Medicine.

No Hindu/Indian bias here.


ok well the reason islam spread in sub continent was because of the fairness of the muslim rulers

thats alteast wat i studied . i have taken a whole pakistan studiez course and history

and indians used to have caste system which was brutal and muslim rulers introduced fair living and equality which interested people.

thats y islam spread.

u really cant spread something by force.

[Logical_Uzi]

Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or lease land in
the Zionist entity?

Did you know that Palestinian license plates in Zionist entity are color coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?

Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews and the remaining
15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories?

For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 400 settlers, while 15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians?

Did you know the United States awards the Israel $6billion in aid each year? Did you know that yearly US aid to Israel exceeds the aid the US grants to the whole African continent?

Did you know that the Israel is the only country in the Middle East that has nuclear weapons?

Did you know that the Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites?

Did you know that Israel currently occupies territories of two sovereign nations (Lebanon and Syria) in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?

Did you know that Israel has for decades routinely sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies?

Did you know that high-ranking military officers in the Israeli Defence Forces have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed by the IDF?

Did you know that Israel refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?

Did you know that Israel routinely confiscates bank accounts, businesses, and land and refuses to pay compensation to those who suffer the confiscation?

Did you know that Israel blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship in international waters, killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors?

Did you know that the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders, is the Jewish AIPAC?

Did you know that Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions?

Did you know that today's Israel sits on the former sites of more than 400 now-vanished Palestinian villages, and that the Israeli’s re- named almost every physical site in the country to cover up the traces?

Did you know that it was not until 1988 that Israelis were barred from running "Jews Only" job ads?

Did you know that four prime ministers of Israel (Begin, Shamir, Rabin, and Sharon) have taken part in either bomb attacks on civilians, massacres of civilians, or forced expulsions of civilians from their villages?

Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays two American public relations firms to promote Israel to Americans?

Did you know that Sharon's coalition government includes a party -- Molodet -- which advocates expelling all Palestinians from the occupied territories?

Did you know that Israel’s settlement-building increased in the eight years since Oslo?

Did you know that settlement building under Barak doubled compared to settlement building under Netanyahu?

Did you know that Israel once dedicated a postage stamp to a man who attacked a civilian bus and killed several people?

Did you know that recently-declassified documents indicate that David Ben-Gurion in at least some instances approved of the expulsion of Palestinians in 1948?

Did you know that despite a ban on torture by Israel’s High Court of Justice, torture has continued by Shin Bet interrogators on Palestinian prisoners?

Did you know that Palestinian refugees make up the largest portion of the refugee population in the world?

No wait my bad this is decomcracy its A-OK :Peace:

Forget about the 112 atom bombs and biological weapons Isreal has it has lets make sure iran anint producing any!

[adren@line]

ok well the reason islam spread in sub continent was because of the fairness of the muslim rulers

they were only fair to Muslims.
Not Hindus.

This article (that is written by a white guy) is sourced and cites many, many examples of how they were *not* fair.

thats alteast wat i studied . i have taken a whole pakistan studiez course and history

well, Pakistanis will whitewash their history and their religion.


and indians used to have caste system which was brutal and muslim rulers introduced fair living and equality which interested people.

thats BS.

A low caste Hindu was treated better by upper caste Hindus than most Hindus were by Muslim rulers.

The Muslism themselves had a caste system with them at top and Hindus at the bottom.

thats y islam spread.

u really cant spread something by force.
ofcourse you can.
There are many ways.

Its still happening.
The Muslim Boys are generally black Islamic converts and are known for forcing black youths into conversion at gunpoint.
http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/topstories/display.var.622910.0.gunman_has_links_with_muslim_ gang.php


Tensions flared during the last three weeks over fears that Christians were being forced to convert to Islam.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4110861.stm

[adren@line]

Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or lease land in
the Zionist entity?

Did you know that Palestinian license plates in Zionist entity are color coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?

Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews and the remaining
15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories?

For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 400 settlers, while 15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians?

Did you know the United States awards the Israel $6billion in aid each year? Did you know that yearly US aid to Israel exceeds the aid the US grants to the whole African continent?

Did you know that the Israel is the only country in the Middle East that has nuclear weapons?

Did you know that the Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites?

Did you know that Israel currently occupies territories of two sovereign nations (Lebanon and Syria) in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?

Did you know that Israel has for decades routinely sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies?

Did you know that high-ranking military officers in the Israeli Defence Forces have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed by the IDF?

Did you know that Israel refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?

Did you know that Israel routinely confiscates bank accounts, businesses, and land and refuses to pay compensation to those who suffer the confiscation?

Did you know that Israel blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship in international waters, killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors?

Did you know that the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders, is the Jewish AIPAC?

Did you know that Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions?

Did you know that today's Israel sits on the former sites of more than 400 now-vanished Palestinian villages, and that the Israeli’s re- named almost every physical site in the country to cover up the traces?

Did you know that it was not until 1988 that Israelis were barred from running "Jews Only" job ads?

Did you know that four prime ministers of Israel (Begin, Shamir, Rabin, and Sharon) have taken part in either bomb attacks on civilians, massacres of civilians, or forced expulsions of civilians from their villages?

Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays two American public relations firms to promote Israel to Americans?

Did you know that Sharon's coalition government includes a party -- Molodet -- which advocates expelling all Palestinians from the occupied territories?

Did you know that Israel’s settlement-building increased in the eight years since Oslo?

Did you know that settlement building under Barak doubled compared to settlement building under Netanyahu?

Did you know that Israel once dedicated a postage stamp to a man who attacked a civilian bus and killed several people?

Did you know that recently-declassified documents indicate that David Ben-Gurion in at least some instances approved of the expulsion of Palestinians in 1948?

Did you know that despite a ban on torture by Israel’s High Court of Justice, torture has continued by Shin Bet interrogators on Palestinian prisoners?

Did you know that Palestinian refugees make up the largest portion of the refugee population in the world?

No wait my bad this is decomcracy its A-OK :Peace:

Forget about the 112 atom bombs and biological weapons Isreal has it has lets make sure iran anint producing any!


like I care.

Jews and Hindus have had good relations for thousands of years.

Hindus and Muslims havent.

So if Jews dont like Muslims, its of no consequence to me.

[souwestpaki]

well actually mohammad bin Qasim was a Saint

he had to spread the word of Allah. and he tried to do it politely. but that dahir guy revolted and chose aggression and mohammad bin qasim had no choice but to fight.

i've read all this stuff before dude

[Cunard]

islam was used as a tool to spread an empire...just as christianity was used to spread an empire.......not much difference in tactics either

right wing sikhs have used scare tactics in Punjab for years while Hindus have used scare tactics in other parts of India to shut up the minority......isolated incidents such as these came no where near the scale of Islam and Christianity, but they did happen

[adren@line]

well actually mohammad bin Qasim was a Saint

he had to spread the word of Allah. and he tried to do it politely. but that dahir guy revolted and chose aggression and mohammad bin qasim had no choice but to fight.

i've read all this stuff before dude

Osoma Bin Laden is a saint too right?

Im not going to sit here and convince that Qusam was another infidel-hating Muslim invader who had a knack for violence , but im going to point out an obvious reality:

He was an Arab invader in Indian land. Not the other way around. We didnt invade Arabia. He invaded India. We had every right to kill him and his A-rab bandits. He entered our land with an army and intention to kill.

Here is a qoute from Qusam himself:

"O my cousin; I received your life inspiring letter. I was much pleased and overjoyed when it reached me. The events were recounted in an excellent and beautiful style, and I learnt that the ways and rules you follow are conformable to the Law. Except that you give protection to all, great and small alike, and make no difference between enemy and friend. God says, 'Give no quarter to Infidels, but cut their throats." "Then know that this is the command of the great God. You should not be too ready to grant protection, because it will prolong your work. After this, give no quarter to any enemy except to those who are of rank. This is a worthy resolve, and want of dignity will not be imputed to you. Peace be with you."

By this train of though, Osoma Bin Laden is a saint as well.

[Cunard]

Bin Qasim was successful, rapidly taking all of Sindh and moving into southern Punjab up to Multan. The forces of Muhammad bin Qasim defeated Raja Dahar, and took his daughters captive (they were sent to Damascus). On his arrival at the town of Brahminabad between 6,000 and 16,000 men died in the battle that ensued.

After the violence Qasim attempted to establish law and order in the newly-conquered territory by allowing a degree of religious tolerance. He was countermanded by Hajjaj who insisted on a more hardline policy. As a whole, populations of conquered territories were treated as people of the book and granted religious toleration of Hindu religion in return for payment of the poll tax (jizya). Brahmin caste system was tolerated and no conversion of conquered populations was attempted


^little info on the man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim


not what i would call a saint

[adren@line]

^little info on the man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim


not what i would call a saint


indeed.

He was a saint because he was a foriegn A-rab who invaded South Asia and defeated an Indian who was defending his native land.

Gotta love the Pakistani mentality.

:dance3:

[Space-Cowboy]

WTF!

Please could you go and read about Islamic History and the Quran and then tell me what you think about Islam.

On the way please slap yourself for the ignorancy you behold!

It's not the religion its the PEOPLE! If you dn't know the difference between that, please get educated around this sector.

I keep hearing this over and over again.... 'it's not the book, it's the people'

So what are you saying exactly? That Muslim people are too stupid to understand the word of your God, the simple message of peace and tolerance?



Not all Muslims? Ok. When Judgement day comes and Allah asks you:

"Have you upholded My message of peace throughout your life? Have you actively and verbally protested to the slaughter of Hindu Bengalis in Bangladesh for the past 25 years? Have you verbally and actively protested the slaughter of innocent lives due to suicide bombers? Have you ever RAISED ARMS AGAINST A FELLOW MUSLIM WHOM YOU KNEW TO BE CONDUCTING THESE EVIL ACTS?"

What will your answer be?

Don't worry about the people who do wrong against the Muslim world, their judgement will come too; so don't bother bringing that up. Allah will not ask you to compare yourself to the evil acts of other peoples, He WILL ask you to compare yourself to the ideals He's left for you in the Quran.




On a final note, believe it or not, your Allah/God/etc. would rather you help a fellow man out of the desire in your heart to help others, as opposed to the desire in your heart to get into Heaven.

[Street_Scholar]

^little info on the man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim


not what i would call a saint

Biased history.

[br0wnb0y]

I know that there is alot of history in the world that shows slaughters and ruthlessness... people should have advanced from those situations.
The questions you should ask yourself is this;

Would you ever convert to another religion?

If you had the choice of watching your loved ones die and ultimatly dying or living with better standards of living and no fear what would you truly choose?

When it truly comes down to it religion is thrown into all scenarios of worldly issues, which is unfortunate but whose to blame? If you don't want Islam to be the name referred to as a member of a conflict then you must first admit that the situation in Isreal is between Palistinians and Isreals.

What the **** is Palestine to a Pakistani, Afghani or Indonesian Muslim anyways?

[Street_Scholar]

Still, relations between Israel and India have not exactly been forthcoming due to India's former semi-socialist alignment and the desire to not piss off it's Muslim minority. Full relations between the two nations were only established in 1992. Now India has a cute little embassy on Hayarkon Street in Tel Aviv. I think it used to be a house.

[souwestpaki]

I know that there is alot of history in the world that shows slaughters and ruthlessness... people should have advanced from those situations.
The questions you should ask yourself is this;

Would you ever convert to another religion?

If you had the choice of watching your loved ones die and ultimatly dying or living with better standards of living and no fear what would you truly choose?

When it truly comes down to it religion is thrown into all scenarios of worldly issues, which is unfortunate but whose to blame? If you don't want Islam to be the name referred to as a member of a conflict then you must first admit that the situation in Isreal is between Palistinians and Isreals.

What the **** is Palestine to a Pakistani, Afghani or Indonesian Muslim anyways?


HELPIN A BROTHA OUT .LOL

[Nuclear]

Yep helping a brotha out like they helped the USA bomb the fuk out of Afghanistan two faced gits.

[Muslima786]

biased sources :lol:

[xsilent_watersx]

they r always "biased sources"....

[adren@line]

Remember kiddies:

everything is fake and biased unless it makes Muslims look good.

(Then its real.)

:Pelvic2:

[Cunard]

Still, relations between Israel and India have not exactly been forthcoming due to India's former semi-socialist alignment and the desire to not piss off it's Muslim minority. Full relations between the two nations were only established in 1992. Now India has a cute little embassy on Hayarkon Street in Tel Aviv. I think it used to be a house.

relations behind closed doors have been present for many years between the two nations, today Israel is one of the largest defense contractors for India

[dopekhor]

adren@line have you ever heard of hindu muslim riots during the 700 year old muslim regin of india? have you ever heard of a muslim emperor/king/nawab/head of state publicly destory a temple?

hidus breed more hatered then muslims admit the facts, people converted to islam beacuse Islam offered them a path to escape from the torments and horror inflicted on to them by hindu kings.

In Bengal every almost every Jamidars and their associates tormented people.

Hinuds even have a tradition if a muslim touchs any of their poessions they get rid of it.

[adren@line]

adren@line have you ever heard of hindu muslim riots during the 700 year old muslim regin of india? have you ever heard of a muslim emperor/king/nawab/head of state publicly destory a temple?
yes and yes.

hindus breed more hatered then muslims admit the facts, people converted to islam beacuse Islam offered them a path to escape from the torments and horror inflicted on to them by hindu kings.

no.

All Hindus are treated worse under Muslim rule than lower-caste Hindus are treated under Hindu rule.

The worse some Brahmins did was throw acid or chop some hands or feet off of a Dalit.

Muslim rulers massacred entire populations of Hindus.
Lower caste.
Upper caste.
No caste.

Didnt matter.




In Bengal every almost every Jamidars and their associates tormented people.

BANGLADESH
Attacks on members of the Hindu minority
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engASA130062001?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES/BANGLADESH
Amnesty International has been concerned about the situation of members of the Hindu community in Bangladesh over the past several months. Following the general elections on 1 October which were won by a coalition led by Bangladesh Nationalist Party(BNP) with a large majority, BNP supporters reportedly attacked Hindus because of their perceived support for the rival Awami League party during elections. Hundreds of Hindu families were reportedly driven off their land by groups affiliated to the BNP-led coalition who, in some cases, allegedly burnt their homes and raped Hindu women. Several Hindus were reportedly killed. Amnesty International is calling on the Government of Bangladesh to bring to justice perpetrators of these attacks regardless of their position in society or in any political party.
Hinuds even have a tradition if a muslim touchs any of their poessions they get rid of it.
good.

[ShivaChrist]

I can't believe I'm the first person who's going to say this, but we need to start thinking of the present. I know they say "You're likely to repeat the past if you forget your history" and this is true, but at the same time, a lot of what has happened was in the distant past. It is fact that the Turks commited acts of genocide twice on the Armenians, but they deny this. Even when the world community wants them to admit it they don't want to - why? One is because to admit it means that they did in fact do it, and 2nd is reparations. A lot of people will ask for money over the loss of family, posessions, homes, etc. and that would cost them an awful lot of money. The way I see it is I don't blame the Turks today for what happened, especially the kids - they weren't around at the turn of the century, and they didn't have anything to do with it. So why be angry at them? I'd rather live in peace, heck, one of my girlfriends was Turkish. But the sad thing is discussing the Genocide with them is a hopeless cause as well, because they are taught that it didn't happen and they believe it.

[dopekhor]

care to provide extensive evidence, to prove your claim as for the last part of your the claim.

for the last part of your claim, its no where near the recent Gujrat riots. Oh and in Bangladesh, the people never elected a person who destroyed a hindu temple in public and broadcast it on national television. Oh wait no one destroyed hindu temples in Bangladesh.

[dopekhor]

care to provide extensive evidence, to prove your claim as for the last part of your the claim.

for the last part of your claim, its no where near the recent Gujrat riots. Oh and in Bangladesh, the people never elected a person who destroyed a hindu temple in public and broadcast it on national television. Oh wait no one destroyed hindu temples in Bangladesh.
this post was targeted at post #44 by adren not the one by shiva's

[adren@line]

care to provide extensive evidence, to prove your claim as for the last part of your the claim.

for the last part of your claim, its no where near the recent Gujrat riots. Oh and in Bangladesh, the people never elected a person who destroyed a hindu temple in public and broadcast it on national television. Oh wait no one destroyed hindu temples in Bangladesh.

read the frikin' first post.

also read this:

http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/feb/04kanch.htm

and this

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=4649

oh, and this

http://www.afghanhindu.com/shahis.asp

how about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Buddhism_in_India

this too?
http://voi.org/books/htemples2/ch7.htm
(I double checked some of the qoutes)

deez nuts...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadir_Shah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ghori
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Empires_in_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajjaj_bin_Yousef
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuristani_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_invasion_of_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_of_Ghazni

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indo-Pakistani_War
"A second relief column reached only Kotli and was forced to evacuate its garrison. Mirpur was captured by the AZK and its inhabitants particularly the Hindus were slaughtered."


Oh, and dont forget the Bangladeshi link.

:dance3:

[adren@line]

I can't believe I'm the first person who's going to say this, but we need to start thinking of the present. I know they say "You're likely to repeat the past if you forget your history" and this is true, but at the same time, a lot of what has happened was in the distant past. It is fact that the Turks commited acts of genocide twice on the Armenians, but they deny this. Even when the world community wants them to admit it they don't want to - why? One is because to admit it means that they did in fact do it, and 2nd is reparations. A lot of people will ask for money over the loss of family, posessions, homes, etc. and that would cost them an awful lot of money. The way I see it is I don't blame the Turks today for what happened, especially the kids - they weren't around at the turn of the century, and they didn't have anything to do with it. So why be angry at them? I'd rather live in peace, heck, one of my girlfriends was Turkish. But the sad thing is discussing the Genocide with them is a hopeless cause as well, because they are taught that it didn't happen and they believe it.

Werd bro.

The Mughals were Turk bastards too.

Christian-Armenia needs to arm itself and upgrade to nuclear status so they can join their once-oppressed brothers in Israel and India against the hordes of violent psycho nutjobs that happen to occupy the space around our countries.

:D

[dopekhor]

read the frikin' first post.

also read this:

http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/feb/04kanch.htm

and this

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=4649

oh, and this

http://www.afghanhindu.com/shahis.asp

how about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Buddhism_in_India

this too?
http://voi.org/books/htemples2/ch7.htm
(I double checked some of the qoutes)

deez nuts...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadir_Shah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ghori
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Empires_in_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajjaj_bin_Yousef
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuristani_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_invasion_of_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_of_Ghazni

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indo-Pakistani_War
"A second relief column reached only Kotli and was forced to evacuate its garrison. Mirpur was captured by the AZK and its inhabitants particularly the Hindus were slaughtered."


Oh, and dont forget the Bangladeshi link.

:dance3:
funny most of the sites you posted either are pro india or pro hindu sites and you belive whats on wikipedia?

anyone can write anything there!

[adren@line]

funny most of the sites you posted either are pro india or pro hindu sites and you belive whats on wikipedia?

anyone can write anything there!

then go edit it out and/or find information that contradicts it.

:dance3:

(and the article in the first post is written by a non-Indian/Hindu and is sourced).

(the frontpage article is also written by a non-Hindu/Indian).

[Cunard]

adren@line have you ever heard of hindu muslim riots during the 700 year old muslim regin of india? have you ever heard of a muslim emperor/king/nawab/head of state publicly destory a temple?



the sikhs holiest shrine was burnt to the ground twice :eek:

[typeOnegative]

I generally like fights over religion. We all go around in circles and then I feel dizzy. Better than grass I say!

[Space-Cowboy]

funny most of the sites you posted either are pro india or pro hindu sites and you belive whats on wikipedia?

anyone can write anything there!


The sources on wikipedia is a lot more trust-worthy than your non-cited claim that Hindus are treated with ANY sort of respect in Bangladesh.

[dopekhor]

The sources on wikipedia is a lot more trust-worthy than your non-cited claim that Hindus are treated with ANY sort of respect in Bangladesh.
since wikipedia supports the article that the taj mahal was once and hindoo temple, it lost my trust upon it.

[dopekhor]

The sources on wikipedia is a lot more trust-worthy than your non-cited claim that Hindus are treated with ANY sort of respect in Bangladesh.
have u heard of hindoos being burt alive or of hindu muslim riots in Bangladesh, or hindoo temples being destoryed on live television by political heavy weights?

[paulie walnuts]

have u heard of hindoos being burt alive or of hindu muslim riots in Bangladesh, or hindoo temples being destoryed on live television by political heavy weights?
yes, all 3

[sharthap]

I generally like fights over religion. We all go around in circles and then I feel dizzy. Better than grass I say!

:rofl:

[Space-Cowboy]

have u heard of hindoos being burt alive or of hindu muslim riots in Bangladesh, or hindoo temples being destoryed on live television by political heavy weights?


I see that you haven't yet mastered grade 1 English..... and yes, I have heard of all of those happening, my grandfather was a direct target at one time. And I don't give a shit what YOU lost YOUR trust upon, the fact of the matter is, most Wikipedia articles are written by people much smarter than you, not an insult, just a fact, these people HAVE done their research more than you as I'm sure you're not a historian...... And if you are, you're a pretty poor one as you don't know/hide all the atrocities that have happened to the non-muslim Bengali minority.


But really tho, I've stopped caring, most of my family now reside outside of Bangladesh, mostly in India. And Bangladesh is a shithole just waiting to be flooded over by a tsunami or flood or whatever, who cares. The only thing I'm concerned about is that India keeps doing a good job of keeping Bengali muslim fanatics from illegally entering into West Bengal or Assam.

Really, Bangladesh is just a stain in the middle of no where with nothing to offer or contribute to the world.

[FatGeezer]

didnt indira ganfhi get a load of sikhs killed?

very peaceful

[FatGeezer]

I see that you haven't yet mastered grade 1 English..... and yes, I have heard of all of those happening, my grandfather was a direct target at one time. And I don't give a shit what YOU lost YOUR trust upon, the fact of the matter is, most Wikipedia articles are written by people much smarter than you, not an insult, just a fact, these people HAVE done their research more than you as I'm sure you're not a historian...... And if you are, you're a pretty poor one as you don't know/hide all the atrocities that have happened to the non-muslim Bengali minority.


But really tho, I've stopped caring, most of my family now reside outside of Bangladesh, mostly in India. And Bangladesh is a shithole just waiting to be flooded over by a tsunami or flood or whatever, who cares. The only thing I'm concerned about is that India keeps doing a good job of keeping Bengali muslim fanatics from illegally entering into West Bengal or Assam.

Really, Bangladesh is just a stain in the middle of no where with nothing to offer or contribute to the world.

actually theres quite a large clothing export industry in bangladesh.

Im sure a few of the big boys like ralph lauren and calvin clein get their stitchin done there

[Space-Cowboy]

actually theres quite a large clothing export industry in bangladesh.

Im sure a few of the big boys like ralph lauren and calvin clein get their stitchin done there


Korea and Thailand actually, I had to do a whole bunch of shitty ass essays on the Pacific rim clothing and textiles industry for my International Marketing class :neutral:

[Cunard]

didnt indira ganfhi get a load of sikhs killed?

very peaceful

Indias darkest moments along with gujarat and Adoyha :no:


but sikhs and muslims still take part in govt, armed forces, and business very openly, minorities still worship freely in India and do what they want in there daily lives.

[chakdephute]

the sikhs holiest shrine was burnt to the ground twice :eek:

Never burned down, been shot at and there's still big holes in the Golden Temple from the tank rounds around the Temple, but never burned.

[dopekhor]

yes, all 3
evidence?

[dopekhor]

I see that you haven't yet mastered grade 1 English..... and yes, I have heard of all of those happening, my grandfather was a direct target at one time. And I don't give a shit what YOU lost YOUR trust upon, the fact of the matter is, most Wikipedia articles are written by people much smarter than you, not an insult, just a fact, these people HAVE done their research more than you as I'm sure you're not a historian...... And if you are, you're a pretty poor one as you don't know/hide all the atrocities that have happened to the non-muslim Bengali minority.


But really tho, I've stopped caring, most of my family now reside outside of Bangladesh, mostly in India. And Bangladesh is a shithole just waiting to be flooded over by a tsunami or flood or whatever, who cares. The only thing I'm concerned about is that India keeps doing a good job of keeping Bengali muslim fanatics from illegally entering into West Bengal or Assam.

Really, Bangladesh is just a stain in the middle of no where with nothing to offer or contribute to the world.
sorry i dont fancy being a english guru, so mr historian is there any proof that that Taj Mahal was Tejo mahalia or something like that?

Yes you do give a sh!t or else you wouldnt have bothered stating your views here. As far as natural disasters are concerned, it hits India more then it does Bangladesh, I am sure your aware of the Gujrat earthquakes, December Tsunami and recently the Bombay floods hell 90% of Bombay was underwater.

May be your grandfather was associated with the oppressive jamidars of Bengal. I am sure you know how the Bengali muslims were treated during the reign of Hindoo Jamaidars.

[Space-Cowboy]

sorry i dont fancy being a english guru, so mr historian is there any proof that that Taj Mahal was Tejo mahalia or something like that?

Yes you do give a sh!t or else you wouldnt have bothered stating your views here. As far as natural disasters are concerned, it hits India more then it does Bangladesh, I am sure your aware of the Gujrat earthquakes, December Tsunami and recently the Bombay floods hell 90% of Bombay was underwater.

May be your grandfather was associated with the oppressive jamidars of Bengal. I am sure you know how the Bengali muslims were treated during the reign of Hindoo Jamaidars.

Me? Stating my views on a forum? Jee, imagine that :rolleyes:

My gramps wasn't 'associated' with anyone, he was one of the top scholars of Bangladesh [Sri Bijonusha KK Pal Chowdhury] look it up, .... the fact of the matter is, when the Pakis came in 1971, they had a hitlist of hindus they were gonna kill, my grandfather was on the list, with the help of fanatic muslim factions in Bangladesh [factions yea right, they're all fanatics down there], they went after him, and he had to flee to India for the whole of the nine months.

Oh, if you're gonna make retarded claims about these so called 'jamidars', post links from credible sources....


And btw, floods might hit India more [simply out of India being a bigger country], but India actually has a semblance of an infrastructure out there to help the people... Bangladesh is just a helpless little heel best left for dead.






PS: It goes to show just how much of a racist fuck you are by referring to us as "Hindoo"..... I guess it's only fair to refer to you as "SNW"
[Sand-******-Wannabe]

[topg96]

im a historian and half of you dont even no your facts, you people are so silly you look up dojy websites that feed you a load of rubbish (rember this ny 1 can make a website) why dnt u look up ther real facts n half the stuff u r reding is only one sided.

Secondly IF ISLAM WAS SPREAD BY THE SWORD how cums the largest country containing muslims (Indonesia) was never herd of being attacked by muslims but willingingly accpted islam as a way of life coz islam is not a religion but is a way of life. and if u look at islamic history properly with an opened mind you will find that most people even through history, were willing to accept islam as they could accpet the truth.

[Cunard]

Never burned down, been shot at and there's still big holes in the Golden Temple from the tank rounds around the Temple, but never burned.


it was burnt down during the times of the gurus

The Sri Harmandir Sahib was invaded and destroyed many a times by the Afghan and other invaders. Each and every time the Sikhs had to sacrifice their lives in order to liberate it and restore its sanctity. After the martyrdom of Bhai Mani Singh ji in 1737, Massa Ranghar, the Kotwal of Amritsar took charge of Sri Harmandir Sahib in 1740 and converted it into a civil court and began to hold notch parties. This act created great resentment among the Sikhs.
http://www.pilgrimage-india.com/north-india-pilgrimage/golden-temple.html


the holes made during 1984 have long been repaired

[Leon 007]

then go edit it out and/or find information that contradicts it.

:dance3:

(and the article in the first post is written by a non-Indian/Hindu and is sourced).

(the frontpage article is also written by a non-Hindu/Indian).
oh for crying out loud here he goes again i think this guy is obsessed

[Cunard]

im a historian and half of you dont even no your facts, you people are so silly you look up dojy websites that feed you a load of rubbish (rember this ny 1 can make a website) why dnt u look up ther real facts n half the stuff u r reding is only one sided.

Secondly IF ISLAM WAS SPREAD BY THE SWORD how cums the largest country containing muslims (Indonesia) was never herd of being attacked by muslims but willingingly accpted islam as a way of life coz islam is not a religion but is a way of life. and if u look at islamic history properly with an opened mind you will find that most people even through history, were willing to accept islam as they could accpet the truth.


In time, Islam spread throughout the archipelago and up into the southern Philippines. For the most part, it was a peaceful conversion - unlike the Arab and Turkish conversions made at the point of a sword

from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2357121.stm

[sharthap]

im a historian and half of you dont even no your facts, you people are so silly you look up dojy websites that feed you a load of rubbish (rember this ny 1 can make a website) why dnt u look up ther real facts n half the stuff u r reding is only one sided.

Secondly IF ISLAM WAS SPREAD BY THE SWORD how cums the largest country containing muslims (Indonesia) was never herd of being attacked by muslims but willingingly accpted islam as a way of life coz islam is not a religion but is a way of life. and if u look at islamic history properly with an opened mind you will find that most people even through history, were willing to accept islam as they could accpet the truth

yes. i'm absolutely sure you're a historian.

:roflbow:

[khichica]

You have waaaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands! Live in the present, not the past, do something productive, and get a life.

[adren@line]

oh for crying out loud here he goes again i think this guy is obsessed

youre obsessed with me being obsessed.

:dance3:

[adren@line]

im a historian and half of you dont even no your facts, you people are so silly you look up dojy websites that feed you a load of rubbish (rember this ny 1 can make a website) why dnt u look up ther real facts n half the stuff u r reding is only one sided.

Secondly IF ISLAM WAS SPREAD BY THE SWORD how cums the largest country containing muslims (Indonesia) was never herd of being attacked by muslims but willingingly accpted islam as a way of life coz islam is not a religion but is a way of life. and if u look at islamic history properly with an opened mind you will find that most people even through history, were willing to accept islam as they could accpet the truth.

Indonesia isnt in India, hence the article "The Legacy of Jihad in India".

[adren@line]

In time, Islam spread throughout the archipelago and up into the southern Philippines. For the most part, it was a peaceful conversion - unlike the Arab and Turkish conversions made at the point of a sword

from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2357121.stm

Its no coincidence that the bombing happened in Bali, which is majority Hindu.

[topg96]

The bombs in Bali were not directed at the ]Hindus[/COLOR]. No your facts before trying to make it look like Muslims are all bad. If you look up the history of Indonesia then you may no why certain people are carrying out the bombings. The bombings were directed at tourist from Australia not Hindus so your claims are wrong watch the news if u don’t believe me an don’t try to be ignorant an bias coz your arguments r weak

[sikh_tiger]

I agree with adrenlines take on this....t's a fact Islam was spread by the sword. Only the weak inhabitants of Asia submitted to Islam, why would you wonna convert if your happy and content with your life.

The Islamic hordes from arabia and central asia slaughtered, raped and looted millions of innocents because they would not submit to Islam, which was something alien to them. So most of you muslims on the board are decendents of people who were raped or scared into Islam.

Muslims are denial and brainwashed with lies and bs if they think anything otherwise.

[souwestpaki]

I agree with adrenlines take on this....t's a fact Islam was spread by the sword. Only the weak inhabitants of Asia submitted to Islam, why would you wonna convert if your happy and content with your life.

The Islamic hordes from arabia and central asia slaughtered, raped and looted millions of innocents because they would not submit to Islam, which was something alien to them. So most of you muslims on the board are decendents of people who were raped or scared into Islam.

Muslims are denial and brainwashed with lies and bs if they think anything otherwise.


watever guru raam bhajan loll

thanks for the analysis

pull yo pants up

[sikh_tiger]

watever guru raam bhajan loll

thanks for the analysis

pull yo pants up

yo prophet souwestpaki read up on ur history bitch maybe u'll stop believin dat shit u belivin in rite now.

And seems like God doesnt like guys like you very much does he? go help out ur brothers and sisters in pakistan wtf you doin on net bitch.

[dopekhor]

Me? Stating my views on a forum? Jee, imagine that :rolleyes:

My gramps wasn't 'associated' with anyone, he was one of the top scholars of Bangladesh [Sri Bijonusha KK Pal Chowdhury] look it up, .... the fact of the matter is, when the Pakis came in 1971, they had a hitlist of hindus they were gonna kill, my grandfather was on the list, with the help of fanatic muslim factions in Bangladesh [factions yea right, they're all fanatics down there], they went after him, and he had to flee to India for the whole of the nine months.

Oh, if you're gonna make retarded claims about these so called 'jamidars', post links from credible sources....


And btw, floods might hit India more [simply out of India being a bigger country], but India actually has a semblance of an infrastructure out there to help the people... Bangladesh is just a helpless little heel best left for dead.






PS: It goes to show just how much of a racist fuck you are by referring to us as "Hindoo"..... I guess it's only fair to refer to you as "SNW"
[Sand-******-Wannabe]
Mr GoruChele I am sure you dont considers Pakis as Bengalis. Since your old man is the son of top scholar why dont you ask him how the Jamidars treated the mass.

You talk about fanatics, let me show you fanatics in your adopted homeland(India), ever heard of VHP? do some research work on that, for starters you have the "Bajrang Dal" it is the youth militant wing of the VHP, organised in many Indian states. It operates major training camps called "Shakhas", where thousands of young men train in group activities, receive extreme religious education and learn the so called "self-defensive" arms training. VHP also has a female militant wing called "Durga Vahini" which is also governed by the same principles of "Bajrang Dal".

The VHP believes in the declaration of India as a Hindu Rashtra. They are actively financing and campaigning for the implementation of a "Uniform Civil Code" and revocation of "Article 370" of the Indian constitution. It is well financed, and politically connected with BJP. VHP promotes extreme ideology and instigates violence and hatred by spreading lies such as "Muslims and Christians were Hindus in the first place, and that all citizens of Bharat are naturally Hindus."

now what do u consider the VHP to be?

[Space-Cowboy]

Mr GoruChele I am sure you dont considers Pakis as Bengalis. Since your old man is the son of top scholar why dont you ask him how the Jamidars treated the mass.

You talk about fanatics, let me show you fanatics in your adopted homeland(India), ever heard of VHP? do some research work on that, for starters you have the "Bajrang Dal" it is the youth militant wing of the VHP, organised in many Indian states. It operates major training camps called "Shakhas", where thousands of young men train in group activities, receive extreme religious education and learn the so called "self-defensive" arms training. VHP also has a female militant wing called "Durga Vahini" which is also governed by the same principles of "Bajrang Dal".

The VHP believes in the declaration of India as a Hindu Rashtra. They are actively financing and campaigning for the implementation of a "Uniform Civil Code" and revocation of "Article 370" of the Indian constitution. It is well financed, and politically connected with BJP. VHP promotes extreme ideology and instigates violence and hatred by spreading lies such as "Muslims and Christians were Hindus in the first place, and that all citizens of Bharat are naturally Hindus."

now what do u consider the VHP to be?


I don't give a shit what the VHP are, all I know is Bangladesh is a shithole full of racist fucks.

[Leon 007]

I don't give a shit what the VHP are, all I know is Bangladesh is a shithole full of racist fucks.
racist against who lol

[dopekhor]

I don't give a shit what the VHP are, all I know is Bangladesh is a shithole full of racist fucks.
:Sigh: the only racist I see is you. Now I think I can understand why your grandfather was targeted by the Pakistani army in 1971.

Bangladesh used to be full of racist fucks but they moved to India. Thank god they did.

[Space-Cowboy]

:Sigh: the only racist I see is you. Now I think I can understand why your grandfather was targeted by the Pakistani army in 1971.

Bangladesh used to be full of racist fucks but they moved to India. Thank god they did.

And this is why Bengali muslims are complete racist pieces of shit....... The Bengal lowlands were ours LONG before the Muslims moved in.

[Leon 007]

And this is why Bengali muslims are complete racist pieces of shit....... The Bengal lowlands were ours LONG before the Muslims moved in.
and you callin them racists lol the irony of some people likes gays but hates muslims

[Space-Cowboy]

and you callin them racists lol the irony of some people likes gays but hates muslims


Gays don't go around killing minorities. Bengals do.

[dopekhor]

And this is why Bengali muslims are complete racist pieces of shit....... The Bengal lowlands were ours LONG before the Muslims moved in.
The only racist whos got major screw loose is you so quit talking sh!t, if you have a point to prove then prove or else shut the fuck up fawking retard!

[dopekhor]

Gays don't go around killing minorities. Bengals do.
If Bengalis did go on doing that you wouldnt find any Hindu Bengalis!

[paulie walnuts]

If Bengalis did go on doing that you wouldnt find any Hindu Bengalis!
you're right, and that's why Bangladesh's Hindu population is decreasing daily.

[Space-Cowboy]

The only racist whos got major screw loose is you so quit talking sh!t, if you have a point to prove then prove or else shut the fuck up fawking retard!


I already proved my point, and it's that you're a fucking racist. Case closed. I hope Dhaka drowns in the next flood... which hopefully will be any day now.

[dopekhor]

you're right, and that's why Bangladesh's Hindu population is decreasing daily.
firtility among bengali hindus are very low!

[Space-Cowboy]

firtility among bengali hindus are very low!


And Bengali Muslims reproduce like a virus.

[dopekhor]

I already proved my point, and it's that you're a fucking racist. Case closed. I hope Dhaka drowns in the next flood... which hopefully will be any day now.
and yout point was?

You just proved that how big of an ignorant fuck you are, you like to shun your self reality and stay confined in a world of you imagination.

Piece of advice for you : get a reality check, living in denial will get you no where! :)

[muks]

I'm fed up of this bullshit. If all muslims in the subcontinent were forced to convert then how come hindus still exist even though muslims ruled India for 1000 years? The main reason why Hindu's converted was because of the caste system.

Bangladesh's economy has grown by 5% over the past few years and is going to increase by 20% in the next two years, this is the reason RAW (Indian Intelligence Services) is creating so much trouble. Just look what they did to Nepal and Sri Lanka. The Indian Government does not wish to see any neighbouring nation prosper. The claim that Bangladesh is full of fanatics is laughable. Have you been there? Most of the people there aren't religous at all. The recent bombing when 350 bombs exploded all over the country in half an hour raises eyebrows. 700 hundred poeple must have been involved, so how can an unknown small group do this?

Bangladesh is not full of racists. That's Indian propaganda, and the opposition party is stirring trouble just to get to power. The fundumentalists that are entering India are probably the ones that did the recent bombings. All the leaders fled to India, a lot of them are also Indian.

[Leon 007]

And Bengali Muslims reproduce like a virus.
you are a racist

[dopekhor]

And Bengali Muslims reproduce like a virus.
talk about being jealous!!

[Space-Cowboy]

talk about being jealous!!

Nah, I don't get jealous of microbes. As for living in denial? Nah, I just want my land back, land with you Bengal Muslim fucks took by force.... or at the very least large sums of monetary compensation.... YOU OWE US. And if you don't think you do, you're a bigger piece of microbial shit than I thought.

[Space-Cowboy]

I'm fed up of this bullshit. If all muslims in the subcontinent were forced to convert then how come hindus still exist even though muslims ruled India for 1000 years? The main reason why Hindu's converted was because of the caste system.

Bangladesh's economy has grown by 5% over the past few years and is going to increase by 20% in the next two years, this is the reason RAW (Indian Intelligence Services) is creating so much trouble. Just look what they did to Nepal and Sri Lanka. The Indian Government does not wish to see any neighbouring nation prosper. The claim that Bangladesh is full of fanatics is laughable. Have you been there? Most of the people there aren't religous at all. The recent bombing when 350 bombs exploded all over the country in half an hour raises eyebrows. 700 hundred poeple must have been involved, so how can an unknown small group do this?

Bangladesh is not full of racists. That's Indian propaganda, and the opposition party is stirring trouble just to get to power. The fundumentalists that are entering India are probably the ones that did the recent bombings. All the leaders fled to India, a lot of them are also Indian.


a) The caste system no longer exists ...yet Hindus are still being killed off in Bangladesh......

b) 20% of [zero] is still [zero].... Bangladesh is a shithole doomed for economic collapse and/or being overrun by natural disasters, no, ifs ands or buts.

[topg96]

You racaist Shit stop living in a dream u racist shit the land dont belong 2 you u prick an u chat shit no ur info before chattin crap. thats why i hate chattin on forums beaucse half of u dicks r racist shits that belive ny bullshit i said this once b4 half of the ingo you read is propaganda n the other half is made up why dont you go to relaible sources n find your information. why r half u Hindus AND Sikhs luv trying to hate on muslims you lots are perfefetic coz you lots r brainwashed by bullshit that aint even half true.

[Space-Cowboy]

You racaist Shit stop living in a dream u racist shit the land dont belong 2 you u prick an u chat shit no ur info before chattin crap. thats why i hate chattin on forums beaucse half of u dicks r racist shits that belive ny bullshit i said this once b4 half of the ingo you read is propaganda n the other half is made up why dont you go to relaible sources n find your information. why r half u Hindus AND Sikhs luv trying to hate on muslims you lots are perfefetic coz you lots r brainwashed by bullshit that aint even half true.


Learn to say something useful before you start ranting off your random brain-farts.


And no, I'm not a zionist... but it's always fun watching the Jews kick your teeth in every chance they get. :D

[FatGeezer]

yo prophet souwestpaki read up on ur history bitch maybe u'll stop believin dat shit u belivin in rite now.

And seems like God doesnt like guys like you very much does he? go help out ur brothers and sisters in pakistan wtf you doin on net bitch.


now now mr puddhhhyy dhhat, thats lame even for you

[Space-Cowboy]

You racaist Shit stop living in a dream u racist shit the land dont belong 2 you u prick an u chat shit no ur info before chattin crap. thats why i hate chattin on forums beaucse half of u dicks r racist shits that belive ny bullshit i said this once b4 half of the ingo you read is propaganda n the other half is made up why dont you go to relaible sources n find your information. why r half u Hindus AND Sikhs luv trying to hate on muslims you lots are perfefetic coz you lots r brainwashed by bullshit that aint even half true.


This:

http://www.recgroups.com/a/25/164116/

isn't propaganda.

Nor is this: http://www.mukto-mona.com/human_rights/ethnic_clensing_Bangladesh.html

[souwestpaki]

Learn to say something useful before you start ranting off your random brain-farts.


And no, I'm not a zionist... but it's always fun watching the Jews kick your teeth in every chance they get. :D


shut up hindo. muslims dont want to live with u fackaz.

n yea like earlier post. india interfere too much in neighbouring country affairs.....


nozy mofackaazzz :mad:

[Space-Cowboy]

shut up hindo. muslims dont want to live with u fackaz.

n yea like earlier post. india interfere too much in neighbouring country affairs.....


nozy mofackaazzz :mad:

If you don't like it, leave.

While you're at it, bend over, cuz you're India's bitch.

[paulie walnuts]

firtility among bengali hindus are very low!
yep, it's the low fertility

....or perhaps its the ethnic cleansing

[FatGeezer]

yep, it's the low fertility

....or perhaps its the ethnic cleansing


...im stll waiting for your stats in the other thread..... :rolleyes:

[paulie walnuts]

...im stll waiting for your stats in the other thread..... :rolleyes:
go check.

[adren@line]

I'm fed up of this bullshit. If all muslims in the subcontinent were forced to convert then how come hindus still exist even though muslims ruled India for 1000 years? The main reason why Hindu's converted was because of the caste system.


because the Muslims couldnt convert everyone to Islam even if they tried (which they did, to some degree).

South Asia is waaaaaaayy too big.
Plus they always met resistance from Sikhs and Kshatryia Hindus.

[Indian_Eyess]

because the Muslims couldnt convert everyone to Islam even if they tried (which they did, to some degree).

South Asia is waaaaaaayy too big.
Plus they always met resistance from Sikhs and Kshatryia Hindus.
lol

[dopekhor]

Nah, I don't get jealous of microbes. As for living in denial? Nah, I just want my land back, land with you Bengal Muslim fucks took by force.... or at the very least large sums of monetary compensation.... YOU OWE US. And if you don't think you do, you're a bigger piece of microbial shit than I thought.
your land come again? you dont consider your self Bangladesh and yet you want land in our country *sigh*.

Next time when you come to a "serious discussion" use your brain more rather than letting your emotions out.

[dopekhor]

a) The caste system no longer exists ...yet Hindus are still being killed off in Bangladesh......

b) 20% of [zero] is still [zero].... Bangladesh is a shithole doomed for economic collapse and/or being overrun by natural disasters, no, ifs ands or buts.
whats the point of being emotional, get over it

as far as natural disasters go look at India 1st!

[dopekhor]

This:

http://www.recgroups.com/a/25/164116/

isn't propaganda.

Nor is this: http://www.mukto-mona.com/human_rights/ethnic_clensing_Bangladesh.html
now thats what you call "hype'd up"

[dopekhor]

yep, it's the low fertility

....or perhaps its the ethnic cleansing
as if "ethnic cleansing" doesnt exist in India!

[dopekhor]

because the Muslims couldnt convert everyone to Islam even if they tried (which they did, to some degree).

South Asia is waaaaaaayy too big.
Plus they always met resistance from Sikhs and Kshatryia Hindus.
damn this muslims must have been really weak 700 years of rulling from NWFP to Bengal and they could only convert around 20% of the population!! damn!

[souwestpaki]

damn this muslims must have been really weak 700 years of rulling from NWFP to Bengal and they could only convert around 20% of the population!! damn!

lol exactly.

muslims never forced anyone to convert. yes they occupied by fighting a war. but once they were rulers, they were compasionate

this compasion of theirz drew people towardz IzLaM

[Space-Cowboy]

your land come again? you dont consider your self Bangladesh and yet you want land in our country *sigh*.

Next time when you come to a "serious discussion" use your brain more rather than letting your emotions out.


It's not YOUR country, you shitfuckers stole it.... you're no better than Europeans... in fact, Europeans are hell of a lot more tolerant and remorseful than fucking Bengals.

And natural disasters? No, I don't need to look to India.... the big shitty blotch that is Bangladesh has enough natural disasters enough for 5 countries.....


Have fun dying in your shit hole.... cuz after it's all said and done we can reclaim the land and use it as the world's first official international garbage dump.

[Logical_Uzi]

The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. The resulting "Indo-Muslim" fusion left lasting monuments in architecture, music, literature, and religion and decorating it with diversity.

'Force Convert'

You cant force no one into a faith for example if you held a gun to my head and told me to convert i would say it just to save myself but at heart still keep my faith so how is that possible!

and also some people keep bragging about my religon is the 'oldest', A religion cannot be claimed to be the best religion only on the criterion that it is the oldest. It is similar to a person saying, that my 19th century car is better than a Toyota car manufactured in 2005, because it is older. He would be considered to be a fool to say that his 19th century car which required a rod to be turned in circles to start it, is better than a key-start 2005 Toyota car, just because it is older.

A religion is best, if it has the solutions to the problems of mankind For a religion to be considered the best, it should have the solution to all the problems of mankind. It should be the religion of truth, and should be applicable to all ages and all races. a religion which has the solution to all the problems of mankind. e.g. the problem of alcoholism, surplus women, rape, drugs and molestation, robbery, racism, casteism, etc.

[dopekhor]

It's not YOUR country, you shitfuckers stole it.... you're no better than Europeans... in fact, Europeans are hell of a lot more tolerant and remorseful than fucking Bengals.

And natural disasters? No, I don't need to look to India.... the big shitty blotch that is Bangladesh has enough natural disasters enough for 5 countries.....


Have fun dying in your shit hole.... cuz after it's all said and done we can reclaim the land and use it as the world's first official international garbage dump.
keep dreaming! yeah go a head and suck up to them Europeans so that they can shout in the name of human rights that hindus are being oppressed by muslims in Bengal.

[muks]

a) The caste system no longer exists ...yet Hindus are still being killed off in Bangladesh......

b) 20% of [zero] is still [zero].... Bangladesh is a shithole doomed for economic collapse and/or being overrun by natural disasters, no, ifs ands or buts.

Hindu's are not being killed off. A lot of lower caste Hindus from India are coming to the country from the surrounding states.

How old are you? I meant 20% (Insrease) of 100. Bangladesh is developing how can it be doomed for economic collapse? It wont be overun by disasters. They deal with their floods better then the Americans did with the Hurricane.

[muks]

Learn to say something useful before you start ranting off your random brain-farts.


And no, I'm not a zionist... but it's always fun watching the Jews kick your teeth in every chance they get. :D

That's nothing compared to the amount of time you lot got kicked in the teeth over the centuries.

[muks]

because the Muslims couldnt convert everyone to Islam even if they tried (which they did, to some degree).

South Asia is waaaaaaayy too big.
Plus they always met resistance from Sikhs and Kshatryia Hindus.

Muslims ruled for a very long period (700-1000) years and the Mughals were the most richest in the world. Couldnt convert everyone to Islam all that time? Didnt know we were that weak.

[pimpkidman828]

I gotta give you credit for being brave enough to post stuff like this... a lot of Muslims think that their religion has been nothing but peaceful and either don't know/deny a very violent road. Not to say the other religions weren't violent in and of their own rights, Christianity was a very violent religion for a long time.
that's a dumb comment.. I don't think islam is peaceful It's a religion of peace but i think That we had to fight all those battles even though ti didn't read shit that he wrote.. And plus hinduism ain't peace... U guyz got fighting going on with them lil kids that u call bhagwan... i saw that shit on tv.. "O bhgvan krishna tumhe mar dala ga" sum shit like that, now that horrible, christinity had all those fights and moses had to liberate egypt COMon u guyz are stupid

[pimpkidman828]

The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. The resulting "Indo-Muslim" fusion left lasting monuments in architecture, music, literature, and religion and decorating it with diversity.

'Force Convert'

You cant force no one into a faith for example if you held a gun to my head and told me to convert i would say it just to save myself but at heart still keep my faith so how is that possible!

and also some people keep bragging about my religon is the 'oldest', A religion cannot be claimed to be the best religion only on the criterion that it is the oldest. It is similar to a person saying, that my 19th century car is better than a Toyota car manufactured in 2005, because it is older. He would be considered to be a fool to say that his 19th century car which required a rod to be turned in circles to start it, is better than a key-start 2005 Toyota car, just because it is older.

A religion is best, if it has the solutions to the problems of mankind For a religion to be considered the best, it should have the solution to all the problems of mankind. It should be the religion of truth, and should be applicable to all ages and all races. a religion which has the solution to all the problems of mankind. e.g. the problem of alcoholism, surplus women, rape, drugs and molestation, robbery, racism, casteism, etc.
that's true there.. though damn i gotta go get water azan happened and i am thirsty willl finish my remark

[pimpkidman828]

Muslims ruled for a very long period (700-1000) years and the Mughals were the most richest in the world. Couldnt convert everyone to Islam all that time? Didnt know we were that weak.
YO man.. they don't get thought the truth.. They (hindus) think they were everything.. THey got there ass whooped by less then 10,000 sodiers.. even thoug, we were only 7% of there whole population and we still ruled HOW? because we were fair.. never treated em wrong.. spread the truth many converted many didn't we didn't kill the ones who didn't cause if we did the whole india would be muslim

[destroyed_soul_1]

Go Get Layed Retards

[Indian_Eyess]

this thread is funny. :)

[Space-Cowboy]

keep dreaming! yeah go a head and suck up to them Europeans so that they can shout in the name of human rights that hindus are being oppressed by muslims in Bengal.


Shout out the truth? yea sure why not.

YO man.. they don't get thought the truth.. They (hindus) think they were everything.. THey got there ass whooped by less then 10,000 sodiers.. even thoug, we were only 7% of there whole population and we still ruled HOW? because we were fair.. never treated em wrong.. spread the truth many converted many didn't we didn't kill the ones who didn't cause if we did the whole india would be muslim

And now the Muslim world is getting their asses whooped left and right, payback's a bitch motherfucker.

[morning_dew]

I gotta give you credit for being brave enough to post stuff like this... a lot of Muslims think that their religion has been nothing but peaceful and either don't know/deny a very violent road. Not to say the other religions weren't violent in and of their own rights, Christianity was a very violent religion for a long time.
:werd:
i wouldnt say he was 'brave' if he was 'brave' he wouldnt be hiding with an anyonymous screenname behind a computer would he? he'd at least have the gutts to tell that to people to their faces.

[adren@line]

YO man.. they don't get thought the truth.. They (hindus) think they were everything.. THey got there ass whooped by less then 10,000 sodiers.. even thoug, we were only 7% of there whole population and we still ruled HOW? because we were fair.. never treated em wrong.. spread the truth many converted many didn't we didn't kill the ones who didn't cause if we did the whole india would be muslim
lol.

"we got our asses whooped" because Muslims have allways been better at killing large amounts of people.

Anyways, you can beleive this "we treated them fair" crap. History proves that in many, many, many, instances, that this was false.

[bilal786]

adrenaline, i don't know how to put this in words but can you just simply


SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[Space-Cowboy]

lol.

"we got our asses whooped" because Muslims have allways been better at killing large amounts of people.

Anyways, you can beleive this "we treated them fair" crap. History proves that in many, many, many, instances, that this was false.


Meh, they can't kill worth shit now... Mid East is U.S.'s bitch.... Hopefully getting beaten at their own game by civilized nations like U.S., UK, India, etc. will change their way of thinking and see the advantages of TRULY taking a peaceful tolerant approach to others.



[On a side note]: NO, I don't support Israel, I never have, and I never will.

[zai_alam]

Islam will eventually become the strongest force on Earth again, it's inevitable. But this time I don't think it's going to happen through the process of militant/military action (simply because the western governments and it's allies are armed to the teeth with weapons, and no one can beat them through violence, although some try).

The muslim population is growing and there are more and more people converting to Islam. There is definitely a sense of regeneration starting to happen in some parts of the Islamic world and it will continue to grow and spread. It's almost as though we needed to get our asses kicked by the west for a while before Islam can rise again. It will take a while, but it will happen.

[Space-Cowboy]

Islam will eventually become the strongest force on Earth again, it's inevitable. But this time I don't think it's going to happen through the process of militant/military action (simply because the western governments and it's allies are armed to the teeth with weapons, and no one can beat them through violence, although some try).

The muslim population is growing and there are more and more people converting to Islam. There is definitely a sense of regeneration starting to happen in some parts of the Islamic world and it will continue to grow and spread. It's almost as though we needed to get our asses kicked by the west for a while before Islam can rise again. It will take a while, but it will happen.


Nah, they won't...... neither would I want Hinduism to take over the world either..... I'd rather have the status quo as it is now... Christians, Buddhists, Jews and Atheists run the world, and I'm willing to bet that 3 out of the 4 do so, at least in a relatively objective way.

[adren@line]

Whats funny (and expected) is that none of the Muslims who replied in this topic have bothered to refute any of the claims of the original article in any logical way.

Most do not even accept it as fact.

They simply respond with "Muslims treated Hindus good".

facts vs opinions.

[adren@line]

Meh, they can't kill worth shit now... Mid East is U.S.'s bitch.... Hopefully getting beaten at their own game by civilized nations like U.S., UK, India, etc. will change their way of thinking and see the advantages of TRULY taking a peaceful tolerant approach to others.



[On a side note]: NO, I don't support Israel, I never have, and I never will.

Out of curiosity, why dont you support Israel?

[Space-Cowboy]

Out of curiosity, why dont you support Israel?


For the same reason that I don't support Muslims that came into the Bengal lowlands, kicked my people out [the Bengal Hindus to West Bengal and other areas] and are systematically killing off the Hindus in Bangladesh as we speak. I want my fucking land back. I want that bit of my Bengal HERITAGE back. There once was a time when the Bengal Hindus were a proud and strong people.... they became gullible..... and now see what has happened.

In the same way, Israel has displaced the original inhabitants without any compensation.

For Canada.... yes the Native Peoples were displaced, but now the government has given them copius amounts of compensation to help them along and make them feel that they truly belong in the beauty and diversity that is Canada.

No such compensation exists for those few Hindus who are still left in Bangladesh.

Same goes I suppose for the displaced Palestinians due to Israeli occupation.

[dopekhor]

Shout out the truth? yea sure why not.



And now the Muslim world is getting their asses whooped left and right, payback's a bitch motherfucker.
werd!

they are no where near the truth, they only say what they want people to know!

true but not as much as you are exaggerating

[dopekhor]

For the same reason that I don't support Muslims that came into the Bengal lowlands, kicked my people out [the Bengal Hindus to West Bengal and other areas] and are systematically killing off the Hindus in Bangladesh as we speak. I want my fucking land back. I want that bit of my Bengal HERITAGE back. There once was a time when the Bengal Hindus were a proud and strong people.... they became gullible..... and now see what has happened.

In the same way, Israel has displaced the original inhabitants without any compensation.

For Canada.... yes the Native Peoples were displaced, but now the government has given them copius amounts of compensation to help them along and make them feel that they truly belong in the beauty and diversity that is Canada.

No such compensation exists for those few Hindus who are still left in Bangladesh.

Same goes I suppose for the displaced Palestinians due to Israeli occupation.
during the 1947 partition many hindus left Bengal they werent kicked out!

[muks]

Shout out the truth? yea sure why not.



And now the Muslim world is getting their asses whooped left and right, payback's a bitch motherfucker.

Even in these times you cant do nothing to us. You lot got done for a 1,000 years. We used to rule the world for such a long time. Name me one glorious moment in your history apart from the kamasutra orgies.

[muks]

lol.

"we got our asses whooped" because Muslims have allways been better at killing large amounts of people.

Anyways, you can beleive this "we treated them fair" crap. History proves that in many, many, many, instances, that this was false.

How does history prove it false? During the crusades the non-muslims living in the Islamic empire fought side by side with the muslims because they were treated better. The Europeans were harshe to people who differed slightly then them. We're much more fair then you hindu's. How come Hindu's are only from India?

[muks]

Meh, they can't kill worth shit now... Mid East is U.S.'s bitch.... Hopefully getting beaten at their own game by civilized nations like U.S., UK, India, etc. will change their way of thinking and see the advantages of TRULY taking a peaceful tolerant approach to others.



[On a side note]: NO, I don't support Israel, I never have, and I never will.

I didn't know India is a civlised nation.

[muks]

Whats funny (and expected) is that none of the Muslims who replied in this topic have bothered to refute any of the claims of the original article in any logical way.

Most do not even accept it as fact.

They simply respond with "Muslims treated Hindus good".

facts vs opinions.

More like facts vs gibberish.

Because the original article is pure nonsense. Why can't the hindus just get over the past? You've got your own country since 1947 so get on with it.

[muks]

For the same reason that I don't support Muslims that came into the Bengal lowlands, kicked my people out [the Bengal Hindus to West Bengal and other areas] and are systematically killing off the Hindus in Bangladesh as we speak. I want my fucking land back. I want that bit of my Bengal HERITAGE back. There once was a time when the Bengal Hindus were a proud and strong people.... they became gullible..... and now see what has happened.

In the same way, Israel has displaced the original inhabitants without any compensation.

For Canada.... yes the Native Peoples were displaced, but now the government has given them copius amounts of compensation to help them along and make them feel that they truly belong in the beauty and diversity that is Canada.

No such compensation exists for those few Hindus who are still left in Bangladesh.

Same goes I suppose for the displaced Palestinians due to Israeli occupation.

We didnt kick no one out, stop lying. The pakistani army did that back in 71. We all became muslim to escape the cruel caste system and idolatry. Islam is for everyone. There are still a lot of hindu's in Bangladesh, there not getting killed that's just Indian propoganda. A lot of lower caste one are from India.

[Space-Cowboy]

Even in these times you cant do nothing to us. You lot got done for a 1,000 years. We used to rule the world for such a long time. Name me one glorious moment in your history apart from the kamasutra orgies.


ahaha The Mid East is our OIL BITCH...... not YOU perse, cuz nothing good comes outta Bangladesh. The Muslim world can't do SHIT against anyone right now. All U.S. has to do is push a button, ...... all India has to do is push a button. And you should really stop living in the past.... the days of "1000 yrs" of ruling are long gone.... India on the otherhand boarsts the world's 5th largest economy and the world's [overall] 4th most powerful armed forces. AND U.S.!!..... well they boast the world's LARGEST economy with the world's MOST POWERFUL ARMED FORCES. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 20 years, the nations of the Mid East became the next several "states" of the United States of America.

I didn't know India is a civlised nation.

More civilized than Bangladesh and Pakistan that's for sure.


We didnt kick no one out, stop lying. The pakistani army did that back in 71. We all became muslim to escape the cruel caste system and idolatry. Islam is for everyone. There are still a lot of hindu's in Bangladesh, there not getting killed that's just Indian propoganda. A lot of lower caste one are from India.


Yeah that's bullshit, the caste system no longer exists.

[adren@line]

How does history prove it false?

im reffering to what the smelly and hairy Arabs, Turks, and Persians did in South Asia.

Not Europe.


During the crusades the non-muslims living in the Islamic empire fought side by side with the muslims because they were treated better.

yes, I am sure the Spaniards loved being ruled by smelly Arab-wannabes.
:)


We're much more fair then you hindu's.
sure you are. That explains perfectly why the minority populations in Muslim countries are extremely high and why Shia and other Muslim minorities feel safer in India, as opposed to Pakistan.

How come Hindu's are only from India?
Indonesia, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Nepal, some in Afghanistan.

Anyways, to answer your question:
We didnt invade other people and force our religion on them.
Muslims did.


ven in these times you cant do nothing to us. You lot got done for a 1,000 years. We used to rule the world for such a long time. Name me one glorious moment in your history apart from the kamasutra orgies.
Big talk.

India would utterly destroy *any* Muslim country in a war (conventional or not).

We did beat Pakistan's ass four times.


More like facts vs gibberish.

Because the original article is pure nonsense. Why can't the hindus just get over the past? You've got your own country since 1947 so get on with it.

yep, the pure-facts being what is presented in the article, and the gibberish and BS being what is is presented by Muslims who white-wash their own history.

The funny thing is, ive never seen nor heard of one argument proven that all of these historic events didnt happen.

You guys simply refuse to believe it did. With no premise other than to save face and spare Muslims and Islam the tag of being a violent people and a violent religion.

:dance3:

[Space-Cowboy]

im reffering to what the smelly and hairy Arabs, Turks, and Persians did in South Asia.

Not Europe.


yes, I am sure the Spaniards loved being ruled by smelly Arab-wannabes.
:)



sure you are. That explains perfectly why the minority populations in Muslim countries are extremely high and why Shia and other Muslim minorities feel safer in India, as opposed to Pakistan.


Indonesia, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Nepal, some in Afghanistan.

Anyways, to answer your question:
We didnt invade other people and force our religion on them.
Muslims did.



Big talk.

India would utterly destroy *any* Muslim country in a war (conventional or not).

We did beat Pakistan's ass four times.




yep, the pure-facts being what is presented in the article, and the gibberish and BS being what is is presented by Muslims who white-wash their own history.

The funny thing is, ive never seen nor heard of one argument proven that all of these historic events didnt happen.

You guys simply refuse to believe it did. With no premise other than to save face and spare Muslims and Islam the tag of being a violent people and a violent religion.

:dance3:


I've done research on this bro, overall India DOES come in 4th most powerful in terms of overall armed forces. U.S, Russia, and China come ahead..... Israel would run out of resources too soon to put up a challenge, and Japan while having a formidable navy, India DOES have numbers..... and land units and arial bombers that would decimate Tokyo in seconds.

[Indian_Eyess]

All I gotta say is that the Muslim world is completely in disarray and they have no one else but themselves to blame, look around you and you'll see what I mean, we had a glorious past, but now we're on the bottom of the totem pole. If the Muslims are to regain their strength, it would take a serious miracle, cuz I dont see it coming anytime soon. :(

[FatGeezer]

All I gotta say is that the Muslim world is completely in disarray and they have no one else but themselves to blame, look around you and you'll see what I mean, we had a glorious past, but now we're on the bottom of the totem pole. If the Muslims are to regain their strength, it would take a serious miracle, cuz I dont see it coming anytime soon. :(

all true but look on the bright side, at least ON THE WHOLE 'muslims' are alot more practicing in theyre religion and still maintain some sort of respect for morals whilst when you look at 'christian' countries on the whole the labelled christians are not much more than atheists, going to a church only for a wedding or a funeral, which is more tradition now than religion. As for the decline in morality and lack of family values...

[Space-Cowboy]

All I gotta say is that the Muslim world is completely in disarray and they have no one else but themselves to blame, look around you and you'll see what I mean, we had a glorious past, but now we're on the bottom of the totem pole. If the Muslims are to regain their strength, it would take a serious miracle, cuz I dont see it coming anytime soon. :(


Well it's your job as a good muslim STEP UP AND RID THE SAUDIS OF THEIR POWER..... right now they sold you out [and the rest of the Muslim world along with it] to the Americans..... all the while maintain a banner of religious pioty. I've said this before and I'll say it again, religious intolerance doesn't come from the religions themselves, but from the politics behind the leading figure-heads in said religion [whether it be the governing body, or the clergy/priestly bodies].

[Indian_Eyess]

all true but look on the bright side, at least ON THE WHOLE 'muslims' are alot more practicing in theyre religion and still maintain some sort of respect for morals whilst when you look at 'christian' countries on the whole the labelled christians are not much more than atheists, going to a church only for a wedding or a funeral, which is more tradition now than religion. As for the decline in morality and lack of family values...
I dunno, the US is becoming a very Christian nation....morality is still pretty bad compared to many Muslim nations, but Muslims arent getting any better, more Muslims are losing their moral standard in the West, and that is sorta seeping into Muslim countries.

[Indian_Eyess]

Well it's your job as a good muslim STEP UP AND RID THE SAUDIS OF THEIR POWER..... right now they sold you out [and the rest of the Muslim world along with it] to the Americans..... all the while maintain a banner of religious pioty. I've said this before and I'll say it again, religious intolerance doesn't come from the religions themselves, but from the politics behind the leading figure-heads in said religion [whether it be the governing body, or the clergy/priestly bodies].
you're right, I dont support the Saudi government...

Tho they did give more than any other nation to the tsunami aid :sarb:

[zai_alam]

Well it's your job as a good muslim STEP UP AND RID THE SAUDIS OF THEIR POWER..... right now they sold you out [and the rest of the Muslim world along with it] to the Americans..... all the while maintain a banner of religious pioty. I've said this before and I'll say it again, religious intolerance doesn't come from the religions themselves, but from the politics behind the leading figure-heads in said religion [whether it be the governing body, or the clergy/priestly bodies].

I totally agree with everything you've said in your post.

[Space-Cowboy]

I totally agree with everything you've said in your post.


The thing is, I'm not an unreasonable man, .... but I DO take offense to certain things that are blatantly being falsified.

[FatGeezer]

I dunno, the US is becoming a very Christian nation....morality is still pretty bad compared to many Muslim nations, but Muslims arent getting any better, more Muslims are losing their moral standard in the West, and that is sorta seeping into Muslim countries.

its all gonna become one big mush...!

[adren@line]

Well it's your job as a good muslim STEP UP AND RID THE SAUDIS OF THEIR POWER..... right now they sold you out [and the rest of the Muslim world along with it] to the Americans..... all the while maintain a banner of religious pioty. I've said this before and I'll say it again, religious intolerance doesn't come from the religions themselves, but from the politics behind the leading figure-heads in said religion [whether it be the governing body, or the clergy/priestly bodies].

The Saudi Rulers are good for the US and Americans.
Muslims dont like them because they arent psycho religious nutjobs.

Its good that they arent Wahhabi-inclined like the majority of Saudi.

[adren@line]

all true but look on the bright side, at least ON THE WHOLE 'muslims' are alot more practicing in theyre religion and still maintain some sort of respect for morals whilst when you look at 'christian' countries on the whole the labelled christians are not much more than atheists, going to a church only for a wedding or a funeral, which is more tradition now than religion. As for the decline in morality and lack of family values...

all of that is trivial.

Muslims being more religious isnt a good thing.
Their crime rates are high (Pak and Afghanistan), the levels of corruption are higher, and the countries are just in worse condition overall.

Reading the Quran 3x a day wont feed your family.

[Space-Cowboy]

The Saudi Rulers are good for the US and Americans.
Muslims dont like them because they arent psycho religious nutjobs.

Its good that they arent Wahhabi-inclined like the majority of Saudi.


The Oil money goes towards FUNDING the nutjobs.... :neutral:

[FatGeezer]

all of that is trivial.

Muslims being more religious isnt a good thing.
Their crime rates are high (Pak and Afghanistan), the levels of corruption are higher, and the countries are just in worse condition overall.

Reading the Quran 3x a day wont feed your family.

nope but earning an honest modest living like a true muslim sure does.

but as an infidel duped by this worlds riches i wouldnt expect u to understand....

Oh, and corruption is to do with DESI's NOT Muslims. And u forgot to include India crime rates.

[adren@line]

nope but earning an honest modest living like a true muslim sure does.

but as an infidel duped by this worlds riches i wouldnt expect u to understand....

Oh, and corruption is to do with DESI's NOT Muslims. And u forgot to include India crime rates.

But I thought the pious followers of the religion of truth would be above corruption and would abandon their infidel ways?

Oh wait, they havent.

They are just as bad, if not worse.

Quite ironic.

[adren@line]

The Oil money goes towards FUNDING the nutjobs.... :neutral:

would have happened anyways.

IF nutjobs controlled the oil it would be worse.

Alteast the Saudi rulers are friendly with the US.

Better than the fools who run Iran.

[FatGeezer]

But I thought the pious followers of the religion of truth would be above corruption and would abandon their infidel ways?

Oh wait, they havent.

They are just as bad, if not worse.

Quite ironic.


youre looking at YOUR labelling of a pious muslim not ISLAMS labelling.
Who YOU (as i have argued many times) label as a pious muslim isnt what ISLAM labels as a pious muslim. For your flamethrowing you choose to class all the blacksheep as 'MUSLIMS' however in reality most of the pious muslims you will never even heard of or will get to know of as modesty is an attribute of a true muslim

[adren@line]

youre looking at YOUR labelling of a pious muslim not ISLAMS labelling.
Who YOU (as i have argued many times) label as a pious muslim isnt what ISLAM labels as a pious muslim. For your flamethrowing you choose to class all the blacksheep as 'MUSLIMS' however in reality most of the pious muslims you will never even heard of or will get to know of as modesty is an attribute of a true muslim

then what is "Islam's labelling"? Does Islam encourage corruption?

You'd probably say no.

So tell my why the "enlightened-ex-Hindus" of Pakistan and Bangladesh are more corrupt than their infidel-Hindu counterparts?

And anyone who says they are a Muslim is a Muslim.
You may not think Wahhabis are Muslims, and they probably dont think you are a Muslim either.

Theyd probably kill *your* infidel ass.

So in reality, who is a "Muslim" is all relative.

[Indian_Eyess]

then what is "Islam's labelling"? Does Islam encourage corruption?

You'd probably say no.

So tell my why the "enlightened-ex-Hindus" of Pakistan and Bangladesh are more corrupt than their infidel-Hindu counterparts?

And anyone who says they are a Muslim is a Muslim.
You may not think Wahhabis are Muslims, and they probably dont think you are a Muslim either.

Theyd probably kill *your* infidel ass.

So in reality, who is a "Muslim" is all relative.
I agree corruption is pretty rampant in many Muslim nations, but then again, its not religion to blame, the corruption occurs in many parts of the world. Especially in the US, do you think there is no corruption in the US gov.? Hell, you've only to look at the recent news to learn of Tom Delay's mishandling of funds. In fact, there's probably more corrution that we may not know about, and these men present themselves as wholesome white christian males. The same exists in many Muslim nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, etc. Corruption is rampant in the Balkan nations, in India corruption is a huge problem. I dont think saying Islam is the cause of corruption would be politically correct.

[Space-Cowboy]

I agree corruption is pretty rampant in many Muslim nations, but then again, its not religion to blame, the corruption occurs in many parts of the world. Especially in the US, do you think there is no corruption in the US gov.? Hell, you've only to look at the recent news to learn of Tom Delay's mishandling of funds. In fact, there's probably more corrution that we may not know about, and these men present themselves as wholesome white christian males. The same exists in many Muslim nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, etc. Corruption is rampant in the Balkan nations, in India corruption is a huge problem. I dont think saying Islam is the cause of corruption would be politically correct.


Which goes back to my original point: The cause of corruption IS when there is a disparity in wealth/natural resources/standard of living between one group of people as opposed to another. Why do you think the German populous hated the Jews so much during the depression?

[Indian_Eyess]

Which goes back to my original point: The cause of corruption IS when there is a disparity in wealth/natural resources/standard of living between one group of people as opposed to another. Why do you think the German populous hated the Jews so much during the depression?
absolutely, the French Revolution, the Iranian Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution, etc. However, but the tides always turn and the oppressed can become the oppressor, its a cycle.

[adren@line]

I agree corruption is pretty rampant in many Muslim nations, but then again, its not religion to blame, the corruption occurs in many parts of the world. Especially in the US, do you think there is no corruption in the US gov.? Hell, you've only to look at the recent news to learn of Tom Delay's mishandling of funds. In fact, there's probably more corrution that we may not know about, and these men present themselves as wholesome white christian males. The same exists in many Muslim nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, etc. Corruption is rampant in the Balkan nations, in India corruption is a huge problem. I dont think saying Islam is the cause of corruption would be politically correct.

I am not saying that Islam is the cause of the corruption.

My comments were in response to the comments in this thread that stated that Islam is basically superior to Hinduism, and that Muslims "enlightened" Hindus, etc, etc.

Basically, if all of this was true, Muslim nations would be on-top.
But they are not.
Faaaaaaarrr from it. Pakistan would be superior to India. But it isnt.

Pakistan is the living, breathing legacy of these middle-easterners who invaded India and impregnated the land with their viral seed.

Corruption is worse in Pakistan than it is in India, which completely contradicts the claims of others in this topic.

However, Islam may not be the direct cause of the corruption in Pakistan, but I do believe that Islam and the emphasis of the religion is why Pakistan is so backwards.

The more religious a Muslim country and/or their leaders become, the shittier the country becomes.

Observable fact.

[Space-Cowboy]

I am not saying that Islam is the cause of the corruption.

My comments were in response to the comments in this thread that stated that Islam is basically superior to Hinduism, and that Muslims "enlightened" Hindus, etc, etc.

Basically, if all of this was true, Muslim nations would be on-top.
But they are not.
Faaaaaaarrr from it. Pakistan would be superior to India. But it isnt.

Pakistan is the living, breathing legacy of these middle-easterners who invaded India and impregnated the land with their viral seed.

Corruption is worse in Pakistan than it is in India, which completely contradicts the claims of others in this topic.

However, Islam may not be the direct cause of the corruption in Pakistan, but I do believe that Islam and the emphasis of the religion is why Pakistan is so backwards.

The more religious a Muslim country and/or their leaders become, the shittier the country becomes.

Observable fact.


Bangladesh HAS been voted the most corrupt country of all time, ....... has been for quite some time.

[Indian_Eyess]

Bangladesh HAS been voted the most corrupt country of all time, ....... has been for quite some time.
which is why i hate politics and politicians

[muks]

ahaha The Mid East is our OIL BITCH...... not YOU perse, cuz nothing good comes outta Bangladesh. The Muslim world can't do SHIT against anyone right now. All U.S. has to do is push a button, ...... all India has to do is push a button. And you should really stop living in the past.... the days of "1000 yrs" of ruling are long gone.... India on the otherhand boarsts the world's 5th largest economy and the world's [overall] 4th most powerful armed forces. AND U.S.!!..... well they boast the world's LARGEST economy with the world's MOST POWERFUL ARMED FORCES. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 20 years, the nations of the Mid East became the next several "states" of the United States of America.



More civilized than Bangladesh and Pakistan that's for sure.



Yeah that's bullshit, the caste system no longer exists.

cuz nothing good comes outta Bangladesh

So Gas, coal and garments aren't good?

The Muslim world can't do SHIT against anyone right now

Is that why you're making peace with Pakistan?

India on the otherhand boarsts the world's 5th largest economy and the world's [overall] 4th most powerful armed forces.

LOL They're more poor then Mexico and Greece. So what if they're the 4th most powerful army, they're the biggest cowards and history proves it.

[muks]

im reffering to what the smelly and hairy Arabs, Turks, and Persians did in South Asia.

Not Europe.


yes, I am sure the Spaniards loved being ruled by smelly Arab-wannabes.
:)



sure you are. That explains perfectly why the minority populations in Muslim countries are extremely high and why Shia and other Muslim minorities feel safer in India, as opposed to Pakistan.


Indonesia, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Nepal, some in Afghanistan.

Anyways, to answer your question:
We didnt invade other people and force our religion on them.
Muslims did.



Big talk.

India would utterly destroy *any* Muslim country in a war (conventional or not).

We did beat Pakistan's ass four times.




yep, the pure-facts being what is presented in the article, and the gibberish and BS being what is is presented by Muslims who white-wash their own history.

The funny thing is, ive never seen nor heard of one argument proven that all of these historic events didnt happen.

You guys simply refuse to believe it did. With no premise other than to save face and spare Muslims and Islam the tag of being a violent people and a violent religion.

:dance3:

im reffering to what the smelly and hairy Arabs, Turks, and Persians did in South Asia.

Rescuing filthy, smelly toilet cleaning dalits from humiliation is that what your refering to? Another reson why the muslims invaded was because some muslims over there were being tortured just for sacrificing a cow.

yes, I am sure the Spaniards loved being ruled by smelly Arab-wannabes

Better than being ruled by stinky racist hindu's. Islamic Spain was one of the finest places in the world for your information.

sure you are. That explains perfectly why the minority populations in Muslim countries are extremely high and why Shia and other Muslim minorities feel safer in India, as opposed to Pakistan.

They must fel very safe in India, riots carried out by the Chief Minister, raping and looting from Indian soldiers in Kashmir.

Anyways, to answer your question:
We didnt invade other people and force our religion on them.
Muslims did.

Have you ever heard of anyone converting to Hinduism? No need to be jealous. Muslims never forced anyone. They attacked either to protect Islam or to protect muslims living in those areas from being tortured. That article is written by a biased crackhead.

India would utterly destroy *any* Muslim country in a war (conventional or not).

We did beat Pakistan's ass four times.

LOL You lost twice to Pakistan and once to China. Only reason you won in71 is because we did all the fighting. Even in these times you can't do nothing with all those weapons. You're begging for peace with Pakistan.

[Space-Cowboy]

cuz nothing good comes outta Bangladesh

So Gas, coal and garments aren't good?

The Muslim world can't do SHIT against anyone right now

Is that why you're making peace with Pakistan?

India on the otherhand boarsts the world's 5th largest economy and the world's [overall] 4th most powerful armed forces.

LOL They're more poor then Mexico and Greece. So what if they're the 4th most powerful army, they're the biggest cowards and history proves it.

*I haven't made peace with anyone..... and it's ok for you to be jealous of India's exploits... but please, don't bring in bullshitted facts..... The REASON, why India's making peace with Pakistan is because [now hold on, mojumbo, and use both of your braincells for this one]: Peace is GOOD for trade/pr/and overall world view of India..... which by the way stands a LOT higher than Pakistan.

As for being "poorer" than Mexico/Greece...... what can I say except that you're a fucking idiot. They have the 4th highest GDP in the world. They are predicted to be a significant world power by 2025....


You need to look into these things called "facts".... it'll take you far in life, I guarantee.

[Space-Cowboy]

im reffering to what the smelly and hairy Arabs, Turks, and Persians did in South Asia.

Rescuing filthy, smelly toilet cleaning dalits from humiliation is that what your refering to? Another reson why the muslims invaded was because some muslims over there were being tortured just for sacrificing a cow.

yes, I am sure the Spaniards loved being ruled by smelly Arab-wannabes

Better than being ruled by stinky racist hindu's. Islamic Spain was one of the finest places in the world for your information.

sure you are. That explains perfectly why the minority populations in Muslim countries are extremely high and why Shia and other Muslim minorities feel safer in India, as opposed to Pakistan.

They must fel very safe in India, riots carried out by the Chief Minister, raping and looting from Indian soldiers in Kashmir.

Anyways, to answer your question:
We didnt invade other people and force our religion on them.
Muslims did.

Have you ever heard of anyone converting to Hinduism? No need to be jealous. Muslims never forced anyone. They attacked either to protect Islam or to protect muslims living in those areas from being tortured. That article is written by a biased crackhead.

India would utterly destroy *any* Muslim country in a war (conventional or not).

We did beat Pakistan's ass four times.

LOL You lost twice to Pakistan and once to China. Only reason you won in71 is because we did all the fighting. Even in these times you can't do nothing with all those weapons. You're begging for peace with Pakistan.


India raped Pakistan in EVERY SINGLE war.... take your jealous Paki ass elsewhere...... And India is not 'begging' for peace with Pakistan.... Pakis are shitting their pants in fear.... and we're easing up on them to look good in the world's eyes...



PS: TONS of people have converted to Hinduism...


PPS: Don't post when you can measure your IQ using your fingers and toes....

[adren@line]

Rescuing filthy, smelly toilet cleaning dalits from humiliation is that what your refering to?
lol@ rescuing.
can you not read?

These smelly middle easterners massacred all Hindus. They didnt care what caste they were. Occasionally they would spare some Brahmins, but overall, when they killed Hindus, they killed all of them.


nother reson why the muslims invaded was because some muslims over there were being tortured just for sacrificing a cow.
lol sure.
prove it.


Better than being ruled by stinky racist hindu's. Islamic Spain was one of the finest places in the world for your information.
that is your opinion.
Ask a Christian Spaniard and they will probably laugh.
I admire Spain alot. They were ruled by backwards Muslims, yet there is hardly any Islamic influence and the country is majority Christian. They did a good job of retaining their roots.

So in regards to Spain, the opinion if a Spaniard > opinion of a Muslim.


They must fel very safe in India, riots carried out by the Chief Minister, raping and looting from Indian soldiers in Kashmir.
they sure do.
head on over to shiachat.com do a search for "are Shias safer in India or Pakistan" and look at the results.

Minority Muslim groups are safer in India than they are in Pakistan.
That shows what a joke that Pakistan is.

Have you ever heard of anyone converting to Hinduism? No need to be jealous.
yes.
Smart, bright individuals convert to Hinduism and Indic faiths. In many cases, violent, idiotic, dumb people convert to Islam (look at how popular it is in the American jail system).

Muslims never forced anyone. They attacked either to protect Islam or to protect muslims living in those areas from being tortured. That article is written by a biased crackhead.
which article?
I posted nearly a dozen links, most of which refer to forced conversions and wholesale slaughter of Hindus and non-Muslims at the hands of Muslims.

Islam spread by invasion, death and war. (India, Afghanistan, Iran, the middle east)
Learn to accept this fact.

The only place it didnt is in Indonesia and perhaps one or two countries in Africa (which were still invaded by Arabs).


LOL You lost twice to Pakistan and once to China
Pakistan and India have had four wars.
Three of them are considered wins on behalf of India and one is considered a stalemate. However, Pakistan suffered more losses so India won.

Every neutral source states that India won three times and the fourth was a stalemate with Pakistan incurring more losses.

look it up biotch.

:p

ou're begging for peace with Pakistan.
and vice versa.

[adren@line]

cuz nothing good comes outta Bangladesh

So Gas, coal and garments aren't good?

The Muslim world can't do SHIT against anyone right now

Is that why you're making peace with Pakistan?

India on the otherhand boarsts the world's 5th largest economy and the world's [overall] 4th most powerful armed forces.

LOL They're more poor then Mexico and Greece. So what if they're the 4th most powerful army, they're the biggest cowards and history proves it.

so you glorify violence while simultaneously adhering the belief that Muslims only attacked in defense?

LOL.

This is one of the peculiar traits I see among Muslims:

They insist that they are peacefull yet glorify murderers and their history as
conquerours, then call Hindus cowards for not having a knack for murderous and violent invasions of foreign peoples like Muslims did.

[Logical_Uzi]

so you glorify violence while simultaneously adhering the belief that Muslims only attacked in defense?

LOL.

This is one of the peculiar traits I see among Muslims:

They insist that they are peacefull yet glorify murderers and their history as
conquerours, then call Hindus cowards for not having a knack for murderous and violent invasions of foreign peoples like Muslims did.

Forget when the persians invaded India (fire/star worshipers at that time)

Forget when the brits invaded India

Forget when the Bactrians invaded India

Forget when the Scythians invaded India

Forget when the Arabs invaded India

Forget when the Huns invaded India

Forget when the french invaded India

Forget when the greeks invaded India

Forget when the aryans invaded India

Forget when the portuguese invaded India

Remember when the Islamic empires Decorated & Diversified India.

[adren@line]

Forget when the persians invaded India (fire/star worshipers at that time)

Forget when the brits invaded India

Forget when the Bactrians invaded India

Forget when the Scythians invaded India

Forget when the Arabs invaded India

Forget when the Huns invaded India

Forget when the french invaded India

Forget when the greeks invaded India

Forget when the aryans invaded India

Forget when the portuguese invaded India

Remember when the Islamic empires Decorated & Diversified India.

1. the Brits did a load of fucked up shit, but also helped quite a bit.

2. IF Zoroastrians (whos religions is superior to Islam, and is a religion that Islam ripped off) worship fire, then Muslims worship a big black box.

3. The Arabs who invaded were Muslim.

4. the rest of the groups of different from the Muslims in some very significant ways:

- they didnt leave a lasting legacy of hate and murder. They either assimilated completely and contributed, thus leaving their previous identity (such as the Scythians), or they entered India, then left with no lasting negative effect.

5. These Arabs, Turks, Iranians, blah blah blah did no such thing.
They invaded, forced their backwards religion on the natives in direct and indirect ways, killed off Hindus, plundered temples, and then simply left.

Because of them, millions of people are dead (partition, border conflicts) and South Asia is splintered into three major countries.

They left a legacy of hate and backwardness ,and Pakistan is the living epitome of this backwards and inferior legacy.

[Logical_Uzi]

1. the Brits did a load of fucked up shit, but also helped quite a bit.

2. IF Zoroastrians (whos religions is superior to Islam, and is a religion that Islam ripped off) worship fire, then Muslims worship a big black box.

3. The Arabs who invaded were Muslim.

4. the rest of the groups of different from the Muslims in some very significant ways:

- they didnt leave a lasting legacy of hate and murder. They either assimilated completely and contributed, thus leaving their previous identity (such as the Scythians), or they entered India, then left with no lasting negative effect.

5. These Arabs, Turks, Iranians, blah blah blah did no such thing.
They invaded, forced their backwards religion on the natives in direct and indirect ways, killed off Hindus, plundered temples, and then simply left.

Because of them, millions of people are dead (partition, border conflicts) and South Asia is splintered into three major countries.

They left a legacy of hate and backwardness ,and Pakistan is the living epitome of this backwards and inferior legacy.

Before the advent of Islam in the middle east note this was the worst part of the world during that time including the people too, between the 4 biggest empires at that time such as the romans, persians, lumbards and byzantines. arabian peninsula at that time the majority of people were ignorant and worshipped Idols, stars, fire and did evil practices ie burried their daughters alive and god knows what, Then the light came about spreading through the backwards arabian peninsula also defeating the biggest empires around it with a small amout of people who barely had sticks and stones. but God as said in the quraan within a few years the romans will defeat the byzantines who were far superior arms and more men 'known as gods affair in the verse'

From china/mongolia arrived the birth of the moghuls (people with no faith at that time) under Genghis khan him and his army rape looted and blundered many nations, China, India and some of the arabian nations were their main victims. then through generations the majority Moghuls took up Islam and even Ghenghis Khan himself i belive.

1. Agreed, but at the same time they only helped their own interests and not India's as you know brits during that time, were known for looting countries riches & rescources around the world (thats why its called Great Britian to this day) specially diamonds etc for example, India was one of the first civilizations to successfully extract Iron from ore and they quickly learnt how to cast huge structures with it some of them surviving. Their metallurgists went on to invent steel which they called Wotz. It would take the British until the 19th century to come up with the same substance. In 1790 the Indians defeated the British Army in the battle of Pollilur with a secret invention the rocket. also during their rule they done alot of testing of chemicals their victims poor Indians, just to make advancements on medicine, foods and even deadly piosions etc.

2. Islam does not claim to be a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammed in the seventh century but rather to be a re-expression in its final form as it was revealed to other prophets Adam Moses Jesus Abraham Ishmael Isaac Jacob Noah Solomon (saw) who also came with the same basic message, i dont think it was possible to rip thats the very reason he was made illiterate, so the excuse for copying of any kind cannot be used, so check mate. Zoroastrianism is man made no doubt about it without no miracle or scientific proof of its truth, truth always prevails over falsehood, its based around black magic, worshipping stars/fire who they thought were gods, but according to the Abrahamic faiths (Judism, Christianity, Islam) and modern day Science their not.

That big black box? where the greatest and most diverse group of people, gathering of man of all races from every nation regardless of race, colour, status come together? you know very well the curbical itself isnt worshipped directly but your a crafty bugger, its has been their since the first man according to the Abrahamic faiths (Judism, Christianity, Islam) and makes darwins theory look like crap (that monkey thing makes me laugh), Prophet Adaam built it, then later rebuilt after the great flood by Prophet Abraham (Confirmed and agreeded upon by Judism, Christianity, Islam)

3. Arabs invaded India many times way be the advent of Islam (so how could they have been muslim then?) Alexander the great with his roman empire, the byzantines, the persians, the lombards etc all Invaded India many times before Islam, whereas the Muslim empires didnt just invade (or try to wipe out a race like the previous empires did and colonise, eg America mafia did with the Native American Indians) but only killed the combitants, racking up kill ratio's in their millions and it wasnt even a fair battle the Muslims armies were small in number attacked in 1,000's-12,000's against people's armies in their millions, at that time during their flourishing rule from arabia, spain to as far as china and specially in India where 0 was perfected on and we know who the father of Maths is. the muslim scholars were'nt just warriors, leaders, preachers, statesment, jurists/Judges etc but also experts in the field of science, maths, medicine etc many scientific and mathematical advancemts were made and regonised by the world even to this present day 'this era is known as the breaking of the ice from when the world moved on from medievil times' stated by the majority of western and eastern scholars in all fields. Majority of the muslim empires consisted of people from different races such as aryans, africans, europeans, turks, arabs, asians and many others etc even to this day Majority of the Muslim world is non arab about 80%. The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam.

Not really the parsi's which today is modern day iran was the persian empire at one time they invaded India many times way before they were muslims, but according to their books/scriptures they were awaiting a prophet anyway and the the prophecy obiviously came about, which in turn the whole nation took up Islam. can you also explain to me which great force made Indonesia and malaysia even today? become the muslim majority according to History, no such army of any kind even entered their. if they just came and pluntered like pirates and went back to their 'homeland' what are 145 million muslims doing in India? my indian great grand parents took up Islam no force or person used a knife to convert them, they took it up by their own will, also you cannot in any shape or form force a religion into someones heart its impoissble! let me give you an example say if i was to hold a knife against your throat and told you to convert you would just go with the flow and say it to save yor life, but in your heart your still with your faith! so how is that possible. even in this day and age it still spreads which force is used?

The oldest religion need not be best religion A religion cannot be claimed to be the best religion only on the criterion that it is the oldest. It is similar to a person saying, that my 19th century car is better than a Toyota car manufactured in 1998, because it is older. He would be considered to be a FOOL to say that his 19th century car which required a rod to be turned in circles to start it, is better than a key-start 1998 Toyota car, just because it is older.

Pakistan isnt even a Islamic state for starters as it claims to be but better then the rest of the muslim countries overall, Musharaff is a nimonal muslim hes very secular, abit like kamal attaturk he transformed turkey into a secular state not just its people and even to this day not even accepted into the european union. India is no different from pakistan in some aspects both presidents have made illegal drugs, prostitution and gamlings LEGAL which is one of the hearts of democracy, demecracy has a hidden agenda its very secular and against all religions. living example Iraq and Afghnistan invaded by 'wannabe crusades' cant even force convert like they have done so in the past but always very few, let alone establish peace and stablitity.

No offence but you seem to be filled with anger, frustration and hatred? people like that will most likely die in that state too. by any chance are you that same guy on every other forum site i seem to see on? the elequent style posts of copy and paste mixed with a few typed words. who one day claims to be sikh from canada, then Hindu from UK, then zionist from India and somtimes all 3 in one and 1 in 3? and also pro Isreali pro democradtic anti paki/muslim? by any chance do you follow the protocals too? you know what protocals im talking about.

[adren@line]

Before the advent of Islam in the middle east note this was the worst part of the world during that time including the people too, between the 4 biggest empires at that time such as the romans, persians, lumbards and byzantines. arabian peninsula at that time the majority of people were ignorant and worshipped Idols, stars, fire and did evil practices ie burried their daughters alive and god knows what,

and now they participate in honor killings, practice female circumcision, and have sex with little boys.

The middle east is just as bad now as it was in 600AD, if not worse.

Islam didnt do a damn thing to help the backwardsness of middle eastern peoples, except *temporarily* unite Arabs.


From china/mongolia arrived the birth of the moghuls (people with no faith at that time) under Genghis khan him and his army rape looted and blundered many nations, China, India and some of the arabian nations were their main victims. then through generations the majority Moghuls took up Islam and even Ghenghis Khan himself i belive.
Timur was a mongol Muslim who invaded India and killed 100,000 people.

2. Islam does not claim to be a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammed in the seventh century but rather to be a re-expression in its final form as it was revealed to other prophets Adam Moses Jesus Abraham Ishmael Isaac Jacob Noah Solomon (saw) who also came with the same basic message, i dont think it was possible to rip thats the very reason he was made illiterate, so the excuse for copying of any kind cannot be used, so check mate.
I am speaking in terms of sceintific and historical facts here.

Islam IS man made by all scientfic accounts.

There is no way you can prove otherwise.
Through simple historical analysis one can see that Islam is merely a rip-off Judaic and Zoroastrian practices.

Zoroastrianism is man made no doubt about it without no miracle or scientific proof of its truth, truth always prevails over falsehood, its based around black magic, worshipping stars/fire who they thought were gods, but according to the Abrahamic faiths (Judism, Christianity, Islam) and modern day Science their not.
And Islam is based around box worship and the worship of an Arab moon god names "Allah".

The fact stands that you dont know *anything* about Zoroastrianism, yet get offended when people take on the same ignorant attitude towards Islam.

So from the viewpoint of an ignorant Muslim, Zoroastrians worship fire , yadda ,yadda, yadda.

From the viewpoint of an ignorant non-Muslim, Muslims worship a big , black box in the middle of Saudi Arabia.

That big black box? where the greatest and most diverse group of people, gathering of man of all races from every nation regardless of race, colour, status come together?
then why are Muslims the most divided, bigoted, and racist group alive today?

They hate each other.
Muslims cannot stand one another.

This is a fact.

All of this "Islam unites people" is 100% false.

3. Arabs invaded India many times way be the advent of Islam (so how could they have been muslim then?) Alexander the great with his roman empire, the byzantines, the persians, the lombards etc all Invaded India many times before Islam
are you saying that the Arabs invaded before they were Muslims?
ive never heard of that one, so id like some proof or a link.

The Persians also invaded India, but they werent nearly as maniacal about is they were when they invaded as Muslims.

The fact stands that middle-eastern invasions of India increased 10-fold after all of them converted to Islam.

not only were they killing each other, but they also found ways to kill everyone else.

Just look at Darius (a Persian invader) as compared to Nadir Shah:
Nadir Shah sacked Delhi and massacred 17,000 people, while looting the city of its riches *and* taking around 2,000 slaves.

Was this sort of carnage seen with Zoroastrian Darius?

nope.

whereas the Muslim empires didnt just invade (or try to wipe out a race like the previous empires did and colonise, eg America mafia did with the Native American Indians) but only killed the combitants, racking up kill ratio's in their millions and it wasnt even a fair battle the Muslims armies were small in number attacked in 1,000's-12,000's against people's armies in their millions, at that time during their flourishing rule from arabia, spain to as far as china and specially in India where 0 was perfected on and we know who the father of Maths is. the muslim scholars were'nt just warriors, leaders, preachers, statesment, jurists/Judges etc but also experts in the field of science, maths, medicine etc many scientific and mathematical advancemts were made and regonised by the world even to this present day 'this era is known as the breaking of the ice from when the world moved on from medievil times' stated by the majority of western and eastern scholars in all fields.
the majorty of "Muslim math" is merely a rip-off of other cultures and civilizations.

Example:
The Indians invented the numeral system, yet it is callled the "Arabic numeral system" because the dumb Arabs ripped it off of the Indians and propagated it elsewhere.


Majority of the muslim empires consisted of people from different races such as aryans, africans, europeans, turks, arabs, asians and many others etc even to this day Majority of the Muslim world is non arab about 80%. The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam.
they did not have that power.
They were always at war with warrior hindu tribes (as well as Sikhs, later on) who wer fighting for their homeland.

It would have been impossible to force Islam on the entire sub-continent, even though I am sure they tried.

Not really the parsi's which today is modern day iran was the persian empire at one time they invaded India many times way before they were muslims, but according to their books/scriptures they were awaiting a prophet anyway and the the prophecy obiviously came about, which in turn the whole nation took up Islam. can you also explain to me which great force made Indonesia and malaysia even today? become the muslim majority according to History, no such army of any kind even entered their
South east Asia is one of the *few* places that Islam wasnt spread by crazy Arabs or Iranians.


my indian great grand parents took up Islam no force or person used a knife to convert them, they took it up by their own will, also you cannot in any shape or form force a religion into someones heart its impoissble! let me give you an example say if i was to hold a knife against your throat and told you to convert you would just go with the flow and say it to save yor life, but in your heart your still with your faith! so how is that possible. even in this day and age it still spreads which force is used?
yep.

many peope, especially under aurangzeb, died because they refused to convert to Islam.


The rest (or most) converted due to social pressures and incentives that were offered by the Muslim rulers for converting.

Besides, the only links Muslims can find to counteract the information I have found on this page are links from Muslim websites who obviosly glorify idiots like Nadir Shah, Aurangzeb, Mohhamed of Ghor, Al Hajja, etc, etc, etc.

The oldest religion need not be best religion A religion cannot be claimed to be the best religion only on the criterion that it is the oldest. It is similar to a person saying, that my 19th century car is better than a Toyota car manufactured in 1998, because it is older. He would be considered to be a FOOL to say that his 19th century car which required a rod to be turned in circles to start it, is better than a key-start 1998 Toyota car, just because it is older.
what the "best" religion is is irrelevent.
This competition of religions that middle-easterners jumpstarted is merely a reflection of their backwardsness, as these ancient peoples could only comprehend things in totalitarian terms, hence the prevalent ideas of "my religion is better than yours" are what lured many of these backward people to such faiths.

[adren@line]

Pakistan isnt even a Islamic state for starters as it claims to be but better then the rest of the muslim countries overall, Musharaff is a nimonal muslim hes very secular, abit like kamal attaturk he transformed turkey into a secular state not just its people and even to this day not even accepted into the european union. India is no different from pakistan in some aspects both presidents have made illegal drugs, prostitution and gamlings LEGAL which is one of the hearts of democracy, demecracy has a hidden agenda its very secular and against all religions. living example Iraq and Afghnistan invaded by 'wannabe crusades' cant even force convert like they have done so in the past but always very few, let alone establish peace and stablitity.
yes, but the *people* of Pakistan are extremely Islamic and reliigous, which explains their knack for blowing stuff up and extremism.

No offence but you seem to be filled with anger, frustration and hatred? people like that will most likely die in that state too. by any chance are you that same guy on every other forum site i seem to see on? the elequent style posts of copy and paste mixed with a few typed words. who one day claims to be sikh from canada, then Hindu from UK, then zionist from India and somtimes all 3 in one and 1 in 3? and also pro Isreali pro democradtic anti paki/muslim? by any chance do you follow the protocals too? you know what protocals im talking about.
I copy and paste when needed be, cuz you, along with the vast majority of the Muslims on this site, are brainwashed and refuse to accept the devious history of Muslims in South Asia.

Your people (in generalized terms) lack objective thinking and rational for the most part and are completely brainwashed into thinking that Islamic history is squeeky clean and devoid of error.

[Logical_Uzi]

and now they participate in honor killings, practice female circumcision, and have sex with little boys.

not really its still rare to have these practices in the middle east, the x with little boys ask the western democratic countries afterall their the ones who are wordlwide leaders of the elite x trade, as for honour killings it started off with culture from a certain nation but wont mention the name as im not 100% sure on it and dont like to assume, you know very well it has nothing to do with Islam and its against it anyway, the discease of honour killing is now also common in pakistan and banlagdesh too not just India. India along with Thailand and the Philippines with 1.3 million children in its sex-trade centers. The children come from relatively poorer areas and are trafficked to relatively richer ones. There are more than 100,000 women in prostitution in Bombay, Asia’s largest sex industry center. There are 300,000-500,000 children in prostitution in India. The red light district in Bombay generates at least $400 million a year in revenue, with 100,000 prostitutes servicing men 365 days a year, averaging 6 customers a day, at $2 each. "Robert I. Freidman: India’s Shame: Sexual Slavery and Political Corruption Are Leading to An AIDS Catastrophe - The Nation, 8 April 1996"

Just thank democracy because their laws are 'superior'

The middle east is just as bad now as it was in 600AD, if not worse.

again because its under democracy & tyrant rule at this moment in time. whereas under proper islamic rule it was flourishing in all areas & fields.

Islam didnt do a damn thing to help the backwardsness of middle eastern peoples, except *temporarily* unite Arabs.

Thanks for turning a blind eye to Islams contriution to mankind afterall it is a faith for all of mankind regardess of nationality, race, colour or status also living proof today the most diverisfied group of people, For 1200 years Islam was a powerhouse of knowledge, military might and innovation and most importantly contribution for mankind in scientifc discoveries and maths advancements and inventions right down to the art such as caligraphy, beautiful buildings on the level of 'taj-mahal look-a-likies' thats the legacy, theirs so many to list but you wont bother reading them anyway.

Timur was a mongol Muslim who invaded India and killed 100,000 people.

'100,000 combitants' its against Islam to kill non-combitants specially civilians, women, children, disabled and elderly and of course some rulers have done it but when they will be risen up again they will be judged and punished according to the laws in Islam they broken (yes am talking about muslims here) when you go to war you go to battle against the armies of the nation, not only is it fair its respect. also you can do the favour by quoting from the quraan of that verse about which type of people cannot be killed during war, theirs plenty of verses teaching us the art of war whether it be an offensive or defensive. do's and dont's etc etc.

Timur launched his attack on India in 1398, claiming that the Muslim Delhi Sultanate was too lenient towards its Hindu subjects, which was stupid, and yes he was dodgy here and their but Timur overall had conquered to beautify Samarkand, and indeed, much of that city's most striking monuments were erected by Timurid architects.

I am speaking in terms of sceintific and historical facts here.
Islam IS man made by all scientfic accounts.
There is no way you can prove otherwise.

Whenever a Prophet came to a group of people, they demanded that he should preform miracles for them, They were not interested in the character or conduct of the Prophet, or in the message that he bought to them, Instead they were more concerned in seeing if he could dazzle them with supernatural acts, Every Prophet from Adam (Alaihis Salaam) to Muhammed (sall Allahu Alaihi wa sallam) encountered such situations, remember if they were false and fraudulent liars they would be killed point blank and shunned away in their nation/group/society.

Most topics discussed in the Holy Qur'aan relate to subjects like beliefs, ethnics, prayers, personal conduct, social obligations and legal matters etc No human being has composed a book of poetry on such topics However the Qur'aan discusses such topics in a poetic language which has its specific rhythm, beauty and style, the Quraan isnt meant to a scientific book or use scientific facts in their as a scrape goat for proof to non muslim people but can be in some aspects it can be used, but scientific facts in their to guide and help mankind. but of course their are plenty of sceintific facts in their that could have in no shape or form be discovered in that time hence knowledge passed on from God to Prophet they include such facts about the orbital movement such as planets, the presence of numerous galaxies, the constant expansion of the universe and many more etc, most which have only discovered by mankind during the past two centuries. let me give you an example of a living miracle "It is a living miracle of the Holy Qura'aan that even after 1,400 years not a single word phrase or idiom of this revealed book has become absolete or lost its original meaning" and also the fact is that God has stated this in the Quraan, this is just 1 out of a couple of 100's of living miracles as proof its the word of God, but then again you wont bother to read through the whole list, but im willing to go through each one.

Your lies seem to be obvious by anger and frustration like i said, people like that die in that state too, tsk very sad. also ive told you to come clean of what religion you follow, on plenty of different forums sites, yet you turn a blind eye to it.

Through simple historical analysis one can see that Islam is merely a rip-off Judaic and Zoroastrian practices.

No actually through historical analysis can see the biggest faiths in the world and also more convincing the truth the Abrahamic faiths (Judism, Christianity, Islam) all are similar in one way of another in belives, ie same God who created everything and also all accepting prophets such as Adam Moses Jesus Abraham Ishmael Isaac Jacob Noah Solomon (saw) etc etc who also came with the same basic message and to reject and the man-made falsehoods of idol/fire/star worshipping.

And Islam is based around box worship and the worship of an Arab moon god names "Allah".

The fact stands that you dont know *anything* about Zoroastrianism, yet get offended when people take on the same ignorant attitude towards Islam.

Lol 'moon god' ive seen that quote plenty of times from anti muslim sites no surprise, the Abrahamic faiths (Judism, Christianity, Islam) dont worship the stars, k thanks (note: this includes the sun, planets and all the other stars seen with the naked eye) Zoroastrianism ive studied it! started off good then suddenly goes off on to black magic and god knows what, i can go into dept but i dont rely on currupt or diviated religions sources, because remember if their religion was for mankind, God would have protected it why would he let it be reduced to a group so small, theirs good in every religion but most have been diviated or currupt over time or man-made.

I am aware of the Zoroastrians got confused with the parsi's by accident about fire worshipping excuse me! they are regarded as people of the book by most Muslims, Deserves a mention here, Zartosht is accepted by the Abrahamic faiths (Judism, Christianity, Islam) as a prophet, according to the quraan their has been sent 126,000 prophets to every nation, some more then others depending on how backwards the nations were at that time. The energy of the creator is represented in Zoroastrianism by fire and the sun which are both enduring, radiant, pure and life sustaining. Zoroastrians usually pray in front of some form of fire (or any source of light). It's important to note that fire is not worshipped by Zoroastrians, but is used simply as symbol and a point of focus, much like the ' bigblack box as you stated' aka Kabba in Islam and wooden cross in Christianity.

Let me give you an example when young child is going through childhood as he grows up and not taught by his parents about religion, when he matures he doesnt naturally look and the stars or sun and worship it, he does not build an Idol by using materials of clay and worship it even though its made by himself, what the child does in his maturity period (after gaining education in the basics of science and maths lets say) he questions himself, why am i here? who made me? *bang whos my creator?*, why do i sleep? etc etc if their really clever they notice theirs technology around them such as cameras, speakers but the most high tech technology is themselves through the ears, the eyes, the tongue, the brain etc etc then they wonder who created us so sophisticated.

[Logical_Uzi]

then why are Muslims the most divided, bigoted, and racist group alive today?

If your gona lie or in your case slander another religion atleast back it up from more lies from anti muslim sites to make it look more convincing so it dont look like a lie? i suggest you check this event, it happens annually its called Hajj, we're still classified as the most diverse group of people even by non-muslim scholars. for example my family relatives anint just 'Indian or Pakistani' my dad is pakistani and mother iranian, my dads great grand parents were Indians, moms side of grand parents arab and persian, also my relatives are so diversified they range from blacks, arabs, turks, european, american, chinese and south asian and we all get on well honkey dorry we all feel like a brotherhood, proud and generally very happy people, racsism doesnt even creep up once and we know what mixed raced marriages lead too? the off spring generally come out more healthy and stronger as it choses the strongest genes out of both groups and a nice generic look. we're divided by the sects, but then again its already predicted from Hadith of how many factions it will split into, Judism = 71, Chrisitianity = 72, Islam = 73. just makes our faith stronger and puts our trust more in God.

They hate each other.
Muslims cannot stand one another.
This is a fact.

All of this "Islam unites people" is 100% false.

You seem to have mastered hate and full of it, again you seem to be very angry and frustrated, i thought you was intelligent but your very crafty/twisted. I can explain this in long detail but keep it short as i dont have as much free time as you do, why it is today creeping up into muslim societies first of all, all the muslim nations are under democratic rule not muslim rule. heres a basic example things like nationalism is more highly promoted keeping in peoples hearts 'my nation is better then yours' perfect example the olylimpics another example 'pak vs india cricket' 'haha afrida hit India's balls for 6's back to pakistan 'our superstars beat pakistan' then turning effect more hate for each others nations through the exchange of words and hearts what not, since the fall of the ottomans, especially the british purposely divided up the muslim world into smaller nations, so one day they can quarrel amongst each other, a fine example is the iran and iraq war. very clever hidden agenda and its been effictive for the free masons. but all in all religion is somthing people are losing day by day in all faiths most are not religous even in this day and age like myself but slightly more practicing then the average joe. im sure if the other faiths united people it would have people of all races such as the Abrahamic faiths (Judism (not so much) Christianity (only recently) Islam (since its coming) whereas some religions only accepted people in their faith from their race only, which explains why its no different from today.

are you saying that the Arabs invaded before they were Muslims?
ive never heard of that one, so id like some proof or a link.

*ill get back to that one* The first invaders to India was deffo the Greeks.

The Persians also invaded India, but they werent nearly as maniacal about is they were when they invaded as Muslims.

Exactly point of this is your quick to jump to Islamic invasions to India but if you think about it, even the previous empires left somthing in India whether it be a scietific or mathematical advancemt even a invention made by them or an advancemnt on the Indians inventions. if their sole objective was to kill and wipe out a race or faith surely they would have not existed today?

The fact stands that middle-eastern invasions of India increased 10-fold after all of them converted to Islam

not only were they killing each other, but they also found ways to kill everyone else.

First you say they were all killed and now all converted im surprised you didnt use the word 'force converted', remember according to you they came and plundered then left, if they were converted then they left, why didnt they convert back? contradicting yourself.

Just look at Darius (a Persian invader) as compared to Nadir Shah:
Nadir Shah sacked Delhi and massacred 17,000 people, while looting the city of its riches *and* taking around 2,000 slaves

Its called war booty after victory applies to any wars in that time, very baised for example when muslim armies were defeated ie ottomans more recent, they bragged about how their armies were defated, but when Muslim won their wars, the losing side would say their were innocent people masscared or 'victims were all innocent people' when we all know the majority were fighters/combitants who lost in war/combat.

Was this sort of carnage seen with Zoroastrian Darius?

thats not the point they both invaded, a very vain comment! so accoridng to you Darius's attack was justified your trying to say and A-OK?

the majorty of "Muslim math" is merely a rip-off of other cultures and civilizations

Not really another weak comment, for example Greek and Indian work was sent to the caliphates at the time by the people who owned the original work, arabs would do alot of things with it ie convert them in various different languages, ie the concept of 0 and the perfecting of it by Muslim scholars also translating it sanskrit to arabic to greek without this translation bridge, places like europe would be in medievil times but the turning point for europe was Muslim spain. So basically hatever mathematical knowledge Arabs inherited came from two sources the Indians and the Greeks scholars from the school of Darul Hukarna of Mamun did the largest amount of work for the advancement of the maths by the Arabs such as alalgebra geometry and arithmetic, but optics and mechanics made remarkable progress in the hands of the Muslims. They invented spherical trigonometry; they were the first to apply algebra to geometry, to introduce the tangent, and to substitute the sine for the arc in trigonometrical calculations. Their progress in mathematical geography was no less remarkable. Even the so-called enlightened west which has at times taken pains to minimise the greatness of Muslim achievements in furthering the cause of human civilization, had to admit, though half heartedly, the outstanding part played by the Arabs & Muslim Arabs, 'Evil Arabs' such as Musa al-Khwarizmi championed the use of sanskrit numerals and made key advancements on them, i dont see whats wrong with sharing knowledge, ripping is a harsh word, STOP putting words into my mouth.

[Logical_Uzi]

The Indians invented the numeral system, yet it is callled the "Arabic numeral system" because the dumb Arabs ripped it off of the Indians and propagated it elsewhere.

Thats right Indians did invent the numeral systems, awesome contribution to mankind wouldnt you agree? whos complaining? passed to the Arabians, probably along with the astronomical tables, was brought to Baghdad by an INDIAN ambassador around 773 (One of the great centers of learning at that time aka the 'House Of Wisdom' where Indian, Arab, Greek, Persian and Jewish scholars pooled their cultural heritages and teachings their) not to mock or curse each other, but to share knowledge! was that a crime?

"... a person from India presented himself before the Caliph al-Mansur in the year 776 who was well versed in the siddhanta method of calculation related to the movement of the heavenly bodies, and having ways of calculating equations based on the half-chord [essentially the sine] calculated in half-degrees ... Al-Mansur ordered this book to be translated into Arabic, and a work to be written, based on the translation, to give the Arabs a solid base for calculating the movements of the planets ..."

But according to you Islam empires killed everyone in their path in India and force converted everyone, yet an INDIAN ambassador comes all the way to Baghdad to share his knowledge carrying the numerical system, hence the muslim scholars making the key advacements on it and perfecting it. i dont see anything wrong here both parties were happy to share knowledge and help mankind.

A basic example would be you invented the chocolate milkshake, you bought to my house the 'key ingrediant milk' i added this time banna to it with my 'super duber technology' and walaa! made a banana milkshake! not the best of examples of sharing knowledge and making advancements on it but you get the point.

Its called arabic numerals but because it was the Arabs who transmitted this system to the Medievil West the numerals it uses have come to be called Arabic whereas the Arabs themselves call the numerals Indian Numerals to this day, whilst the english called it Arabic numberals so their to blame lol. The Babyloanis were sole inventors of 0, but didnt make much use of it.

http://www.mediatinker.com/whirl/zero/new-map.jpg

Indians used an empty space for zero up to 3rd Century BC. This was confusing for an empty space was also used to separate numbers, and so they invented the dot for a zero, The Greek and Roman did not need the number zero for they did their calculations on an abacus. But the actual name 'zero' comes from the arabic 'sifr' But in that time people were not fighting over rights on the knowledge 'who invented this and that' 'we invented this you cant use it' etc etc knowledge was free and for everyone shared by arabs, indians and greeks which have all contributed to mankind.

they did not have that power.
They were always at war with warrior hindu tribes (as well as Sikhs, later on) who wer fighting for their homeland.

did not have the power? were they not the major power at that time? every nation has its own army to defend its own nation even in the the ancient times, specially Muslim invasions on India for example 'you killed 100,000 people' you say it as if they were innocent, but they were merly hindu army tribes. its a battle lost so take it on the chin.

It would have been impossible to force Islam on the entire sub-continent, even though I am sure they tried.

very contradicating what force went through India to Indonesia or malaysia managed to convert 99% from Idol worshippers to Islam? its called 'word of mouth' and again as i stated before according to History, no such army of any kind even entered their. i already gave you the example why any faith cannot be forced onto someone ill repeat again, say if i was to hold a knife against your throat and told you to convert you would just go with the flow and say it to save yor life, but in your heart your still with your faith! so how is that possible and also even if force was used it would go against the teachngs of the quraan so even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error"
Heres a history lesson Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast"
and again stll today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers? even though the media try so hard preaching propaganda against Muslims and Islam ont he mass population of the world.

The rest (or most) converted due to social pressures and incentives that were offered by the Muslim rulers for converting.

No for example the man made Gods couldnt offer them money and other incentives but the muslims rulers could? dude if someone offered you 1 million to stop worshipping a idol made by yourself (most likely) you would do it! but still keep your faith at heart. even in that time non muslims converted because they were a sucess, non muslims didnt want to associate themselves with losers only winners for example th sultans wore turbans then even normal people adaptated them.

what the "best" religion is is irrelevent.
This competition of religions that middle-easterners jumpstarted is merely a reflection of their backwardsness, as these ancient peoples could only comprehend things in totalitarian terms, hence the prevalent ideas of "my religion is better than yours" are what lured many of these backward people to such faiths.

Why should it be irrelevent wouldnt you want to follow a faith thats the truth and not full of contradications and confusions?
A religion is best, if it has the solutions to the problems of mankind, For a religion to be considered the best, it should have the solution to all the problems of mankind. It should be the religion of truth, and should be applicable to all ages all races also a solution to all the problems of mankind. e.g. the problem of alcoholism, surplus women, rape and molestation, robbery, racism, casteism, etc

yes, but the *people* of Pakistan are extremely Islamic and reliigous, which explains their knack for blowing stuff up and extremism.

So its a crime to be religious? thats a weak comment. The extremists are still a minority but because they blow up stuff, they suddenly represent a certain group of people, sheer ignorance.


I copy and paste when needed be, cuz you, along with the vast majority of the Muslims on this site, are brainwashed and refuse to accept the devious history of Muslims in South Asia.

You didnt answer the following question, "No offence but you seem to be filled with anger, frustration and hatred? people like that will most likely die in that state too. by any chance are you that same guy on every other forum site i seem to see on? the elequent style posts of copy and paste mixed with a few typed words. who one day claims to be sikh from canada, then Hindu from UK, then zionist from India and somtimes all 3 in one and 1 in 3? and also pro Isreali pro democradtic anti paki/muslim? by any chance do you follow the protocals too? you know what protocals im talking about"

Your people (in generalized terms) lack objective thinking and rational for the most part and are completely brainwashed into thinking that Islamic history is squeeky clean and devoid of error.

Who said muslims are perfect? only the ignorant generlize a group of people! remember just because he or she is muslim, jew, chrisitian, hindu or sikh dont mean they all follow their faith whole heartedly matter of fact, most dont specially these days most are whatever by name only and barely practicing. Im a qualified Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer in windows server 2000 & Professional and also with a BSc degree in computing and business managment graduated from queenmary university in London along with decent A-Levels & GCSE's gained from school/college, but according to you since im dumb and brainwashed, k thanks for the compliment.

Is this what anger and frustration leads too, hate? feel sorry for you.

Last comment, The muslim world during their 'Flourishing Golden Era' and overall has had a prafound and lasting influence on our lives today, the list is long and full of surprises, but perhaps the most important thing that the Islamic empire did for us was to perserve, refine and improve all the knowledge left by the scholars of the ancients and without that work by the muslim scholars all that knowledge might have been lost and our lives would have been much the poorer.

peace.

[adren@line]

not really its still rare to have these practices in the middle east, the x with little boys ask the western democratic countries afterall their the ones who are wordlwide leaders of the elite x trade, as for honour killings it started off with culture from a certain nation but wont mention the name as im not 100% sure on it and dont like to assume, you know very well it has nothing to do with Islam and its against it anyway, the discease of honour killing is now also common in pakistan and banlagdesh too not just India. India along with Thailand and the Philippines with 1.3 million children in its sex-trade centers. The children come from relatively poorer areas and are trafficked to relatively richer ones. There are more than 100,000 women in prostitution in Bombay, Asia’s largest sex industry center. There are 300,000-500,000 children in prostitution in India. The red light district in Bombay generates at least $400 million a year in revenue, with 100,000 prostitutes servicing men 365 days a year, averaging 6 customers a day, at $2 each. "Robert I. Freidman: India’s Shame: Sexual Slavery and Political Corruption Are Leading to An AIDS Catastrophe - The Nation, 8 April 1996"

Just thank democracy because their laws are 'superior'
uh they happen just as much in the middle east as they do in South Asia.
Cant blame the Hindus for that one. :p

And I never stated that India was perfect, but it is alot better than Pakistan or Bangladesh (or a crapload of other Muslim countries).

again because its under democracy & tyrant rule at this moment in time. whereas under proper islamic rule it was flourishing in all areas & fields.
The violent nature of middle-eastern people has been there since before Islam and was made worse AFTER the advent of Islam.

All of this happened after Mohhamed died:
* The conquest of Persia, 633
* The conquest of Syria, 635
* The conquest of Armenia, 639
* The conquest of Egypt, 639
* The conquest of North Africa, 642
* The conquest of Afghanistan, 651
* The conquest of South Asia, 711
* The conquest of Iberia, 711

Thanks for turning a blind eye to Islams contriution to mankind afterall it is a faith for all of mankind regardess of nationality, race, colour or status also living proof today the most diverisfied group of people,
yes, a diversified group of people who all hate each other.


For 1200 years Islam was a powerhouse of knowledge, military might and innovation and most importantly contribution for mankind in scientifc discoveries and maths advancements and inventions right down to the art such as caligraphy, beautiful buildings on the level of 'taj-mahal look-a-likies' thats the legacy, theirs so many to list but you wont bother reading them anyway.
so was the Christian world, the Greek world, the Hindu world.

Its all a matter of opinion in regards to who-reads-what.
Every civilization wants to claim they contributed has more improtance then what others contributed

But here is a fact:
Muslims havent contributed jack shit in the last couple hundred years, while Hindus have.


'100,000 combitants' its against Islam to kill non-combitants specially civilians, women, children, disabled and elderly and of course some rulers have done it but when they will be risen up again they will be judged and punished according to the laws in Islam they broken (yes am talking about muslims here) when you go to war you go to battle against the armies of the nation, not only is it fair its respect. also you can do the favour by quoting from the quraan of that verse about which type of people cannot be killed during war, theirs plenty of verses teaching us the art of war whether it be an offensive or defensive. do's and dont's etc etc.

Timur launched his attack on India in 1398, claiming that the Muslim Delhi Sultanate was too lenient towards its Hindu subjects, which was stupid, and yes he was dodgy here and their but Timur overall had conquered to beautify Samarkand, and indeed, much of that city's most striking monuments were erected by Timurid architects.
im not talking about Islam here, I am talking about what Timur did.

And ofcourse you justify his slaughter of innocent people at the end by stating that he we "beautified Samarkand", as if any rational person would see that as justification for the slaughter of 100,000 people.

(this ^ proves that you are brainwashed).

[adren@line]

Whenever a Prophet came to a group of people, they demanded that he should preform miracles for them, They were not interested in the character or conduct of the Prophet, or in the message that he bought to them, Instead they were more concerned in seeing if he could dazzle them with supernatural acts, Every Prophet from Adam (Alaihis Salaam) to Muhammed (sall Allahu Alaihi wa sallam) encountered such situations, remember if they were false and fraudulent liars they would be killed point blank and shunned away in their nation/group/society.

Most topics discussed in the Holy Qur'aan relate to subjects like beliefs, ethnics, prayers, personal conduct, social obligations and legal matters etc No human being has composed a book of poetry on such topics However the Qur'aan discusses such topics in a poetic language which has its specific rhythm, beauty and style, the Quraan isnt meant to a scientific book or use scientific facts in their as a scrape goat for proof to non muslim people but can be in some aspects it can be used, but scientific facts in their to guide and help mankind. but of course their are plenty of sceintific facts in their that could have in no shape or form be discovered in that time hence knowledge passed on from God to Prophet they include such facts about the orbital movement such as planets, the presence of numerous galaxies, the constant expansion of the universe and many more etc, most which have only discovered by mankind during the past two centuries. let me give you an example of a living miracle "It is a living miracle of the Holy Qura'aan that even after 1,400 years not a single word phrase or idiom of this revealed book has become absolete or lost its original meaning" and also the fact is that God has stated this in the Quraan, this is just 1 out of a couple of 100's of living miracles as proof its the word of God, but then again you wont bother to read through the whole list, but im willing to go through each one.

Your lies seem to be obvious by anger and frustration like i said, people like that die in that state too, tsk very sad. also ive told you to come clean of what religion you follow, on plenty of different forums sites, yet you turn a blind eye to it.

all of this is your opinion man.

Opinions do not convince me.
Logic and facts do.

It is a fact that there is no scientific proof of God, or angels.
Therefore, it is utterly impossible that God talks to 600AD Arabs.

This isnt a hard concept to grasp.

No actually through historical analysis can see the biggest faiths in the world and also more convincing the truth the Abrahamic faiths (Judism, Christianity, Islam) all are similar in one way of another in belives, ie same God who created everything and also all accepting prophets such as Adam Moses Jesus Abraham Ishmael Isaac Jacob Noah Solomon (saw) etc etc who also came with the same basic message and to reject and the man-made falsehoods of idol/fire/star worshipping.
more religious fairytales.

you arent convincing me.

You just sound like another brainwashed Muslim.

Lol 'moon god' ive seen that quote plenty of times from anti muslim sites no surprise, the Abrahamic faiths (Judism, Christianity, Islam) dont worship the stars, k thanks (note: this includes the sun, planets and all the other stars seen with the naked eye) Zoroastrianism ive studied it! started off good then suddenly goes off on to black magic and god knows what, i can go into dept but i dont rely on currupt or diviated religions sources, because remember if their religion was for mankind, God would have protected it why would he let it be reduced to a group so small, theirs good in every religion but most have been diviated or currupt over time or man-made.
If Islam is so pure, why are Muslims so corrupt, backwards, violent, and hatefull?

(blame it on the JEws?)

I am aware of the Zoroastrians got confused with the parsi's by accident about fire worshipping excuse me! they are regarded as people of the book by most Muslims, Deserves a mention here, Zartosht is accepted by the Abrahamic faiths (Judism, Christianity, Islam) as a prophet, according to the quraan their has been sent 126,000 prophets to every nation, some more then others depending on how backwards the nations were at that time.
and according to history, no proof of any Abrahamic prophet exists.

none.

And Zoroastrians cannot be people of the book since the religion uses fire in abstract and devotional ways, and by the standards of Islam that is idolatry.

The energy of the creator is represented in Zoroastrianism by fire and the sun which are both enduring, radiant, pure and life sustaining. Zoroastrians usually pray in front of some form of fire (or any source of light). It's important to note that fire is not worshipped by Zoroastrians, but is used simply as symbol and a point of focus, much like the ' bigblack box as you stated' aka Kabba in Islam and wooden cross in Christianity.

way to contradict yourself.

And Parsis are Zoroastrians, cept the "Parsi" is the word that was given to Indian Zoroastrians as they fled from Iran (due to Islamic persecution).

[adren@line]

If your gona lie or in your case slander another religion atleast back it up from more lies from anti muslim sites to make it look more convincing so it dont look like a lie? i suggest you check this event, it happens annually its called Hajj, we're still classified as the most diverse group of people even by non-muslim scholars. for example my family relatives anint just 'Indian or Pakistani' my dad is pakistani and mother iranian, my dads great grand parents were Indians, moms side of grand parents arab and persian, also my relatives are so diversified they range from blacks, arabs, turks, european, american, chinese and south asian and we all get on well honkey dorry we all feel like a brotherhood, proud and generally very happy people, racsism doesnt even creep up once and we know what mixed raced marriages lead too? the off spring generally come out more healthy and stronger as it choses the strongest genes out of both groups and a nice generic look. we're divided by the sects, but then again its already predicted from Hadith of how many factions it will split into, Judism = 71, Chrisitianity = 72, Islam = 73. just makes our faith stronger and puts our trust more in God.
what are you babbling about man?

The fact that all Muslims come togethor for Haj does not mean anything.

Are you forgetting about the Bangladeshi-Pakistan conflict

The Arab-Iranian conflicts

The conflicts between the Arabs, Iranians, and Turks during Muslim rule of India?

The Afghan-Turk conflicts?

The in-fighting between Arabs?

The in-fighting going on in Pakistan?

Shia vs Sunni vs Wahhabi?

You seem to have mastered hate and full of it, again you seem to be very angry and frustrated, i thought you was intelligent but your very crafty/twisted. I can explain this in long detail but keep it short as i dont have as much free time as you do, why it is today creeping up into muslim societies first of all, all the muslim nations are under democratic rule not muslim rule.
Most (if not all) Muslim countries are majority Muslim and have Muslims as leaders.

Many of them have implemented Sharia law.


heres a basic example things like nationalism is more highly promoted keeping in peoples hearts 'my nation is better then yours' perfect example the olylimpics another example 'pak vs india cricket' 'haha afrida hit India's balls for 6's back to pakistan 'our superstars beat pakistan' then turning effect more hate for each others nations through the exchange of words and hearts what not, since the fall of the ottomans, especially the british purposely divided up the muslim world into smaller nations, so one day they can quarrel amongst each other, a fine example is the iran and iraq war. very clever hidden agenda and its been effictive for the free masons. but all in all religion is somthing people are losing day by day in all faiths most are not religous even in this day and age like myself but slightly more practicing then the average joe. im sure if the other faiths united people it would have people of all races such as the Abrahamic faiths (Judism (not so much) Christianity (only recently) Islam (since its coming) whereas some religions only accepted people in their faith from their race only, which explains why its no different from today.


so here we have proof that Islam does not unite.

It divides.

Muslims are extremely divided.

They are not united, at all.

Exactly point of this is your quick to jump to Islamic invasions to India but if you think about it, even the previous empires left somthing in India whether it be a scietific or mathematical advancemt even a invention made by them or an advancemnt on the Indians inventions. if their sole objective was to kill and wipe out a race or faith surely they would have not existed today?
like what?


First you say they were all killed and now all converted im surprised you didnt use the word 'force converted', remember according to you they came and plundered then left, if they were converted then they left, why didnt they convert back? contradicting yourself.

uh because the Muslims invaders were in India for over 600 years, thus effecting multiple generations of people.

Its called war booty after victory applies to any wars in that time, very baised for example when muslim armies were defeated ie ottomans more recent, they bragged about how their armies were defated, but when Muslim won their wars, the losing side would say their were innocent people masscared or 'victims were all innocent people' when we all know the majority were fighters/combitants who lost in war/combat.
so how many Hindus invaded Iran and stole gold and captured slaves?

thats not the point they both invaded, a very vain comment! so accoridng to you Darius's attack was justified your trying to say and A-OK?
hell no.

My point is that the Muslim invaders were 10x as hostile than others.

Not really another weak comment, for example Greek and Indian work was sent to the caliphates at the time by the people who owned the original work, arabs would do alot of things with it ie convert them in various different languages, ie the concept of 0 and the perfecting of it by Muslim scholars also translating it sanskrit to arabic to greek without this translation bridge, places like europe would be in medievil times but the turning point for europe was Muslim spain. So basically hatever mathematical knowledge Arabs inherited came from two sources the Indians and the Greeks scholars from the school of Darul Hukarna of Mamun did the largest amount of work for the advancement of the maths by the Arabs such as alalgebra geometry and arithmetic, but optics and mechanics made remarkable progress in the hands of the Muslims. They invented spherical trigonometry; they were the first to apply algebra to geometry, to introduce the tangent, and to substitute the sine for the arc in trigonometrical calculations. Their progress in mathematical geography was no less remarkable. Even the so-called enlightened west which has at times taken pains to minimise the greatness of Muslim achievements in furthering the cause of human civilization, had to admit, though half heartedly, the outstanding part played by the Arabs & Muslim Arabs, 'Evil Arabs' such as Musa al-Khwarizmi championed the use of sanskrit numerals and made key advancements on them, i dont see whats wrong with sharing knowledge, ripping is a harsh word, STOP putting words into my mouth.
you just stated the same thing I did:

The Arabs ripped off Indian and Greek math.
Thats all they did.

[adren@line]

But according to you Islam empires killed everyone in their path in India and force converted everyone, yet an INDIAN ambassador comes all the way to Baghdad to share his knowledge carrying the numerical system, hence the muslim scholars making the key advacements on it and perfecting it. i dont see anything wrong here both parties were happy to share knowledge and help mankind.

They didnt kill everyone of force conversion on everyone.

I never stated that.

A basic example would be you invented the chocolate milkshake, you bought to my house the 'key ingrediant milk' i added this time banna to it with my 'super duber technology' and walaa! made a banana milkshake! not the best of examples of sharing knowledge and making advancements on it but you get the point.
Then point out the superior nature of the Arabic version, because I do not see it.

If anything, the original was more advances, and the Arabs dumbed it down.

Its called arabic numerals but because it was the Arabs who transmitted this system to the Medievil West the numerals it uses have come to be called Arabic whereas the Arabs themselves call the numerals Indian Numerals to this day, whilst the english called it Arabic numberals so their to blame lol. The Babyloanis were sole inventors of 0, but didnt make much use of it.

"In India, the concepts of 0 as a placeholder and 0 as a number were
associated with one another much earlier than in Babylon. It is from
the Indians that we get our present-day symbol for 0."
http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/52566.html

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/history/HistTopics/Zero.html

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen99/gen99535.htm

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/z1/zero.asp

There groups invented the zero idependently, but the common usage of it today originated in India.

did not have the power? were they not the major power at that time? every nation has its own army to defend its own nation even in the the ancient times, specially Muslim invasions on India for example 'you killed 100,000 people' you say it as if they were innocent, but they were merly hindu army tribes. its a battle lost so take it on the chin.
they were not army tribes.

They were also women and children.
It has all been documented in journals by travelling Muslim historians.


very contradicating what force went through India to Indonesia or malaysia managed to convert 99% from Idol worshippers to Islam?
not contracting because India is not Indonesia or Malysia.

One area has a different history from the other.

i already gave you the example why any faith cannot be forced onto someone ill repeat again, say if i was to hold a knife against your throat and told you to convert you would just go with the flow and say it to save yor life, but in your heart your still with your faith! so how is that possible and also even if force was used it would go against the teachngs of the quraan so even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error"
Heres a history lesson Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast"
and again stll today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers? even though the media try so hard preaching propaganda against Muslims and Islam ont he mass population of the world.

same reason.

My post was about India.
Not Malaysia.


No for example the man made Gods couldnt offer them money and other incentives but the muslims rulers could? dude if someone offered you 1 million to stop worshipping a idol made by yourself (most likely) you would do it! but still keep your faith at heart. even in that time non muslims converted because they were a sucess, non muslims didnt want to associate themselves with losers only winners for example th sultans wore turbans then even normal people adaptated them.
it doesnt matter if you dot believe it.
It is a docmented fact, and you read a passage about it in this book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0618042458/104-0413429-9717537?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=507846&s=books&v=glance


Why should it be irrelevent wouldnt you want to follow a faith thats the truth and not full of contradications and confusions?
Because you cant prove that one faith is true and another isnt.
Ultimately, none of us know.
And there is no way you can prove otherwise.

A religion is best, if it has the solutions to the problems of mankind, For a religion to be considered the best, it should have the solution to all the problems of mankind. It should be the religion of truth, and should be applicable to all ages all races also a solution to all the problems of mankind. e.g. the problem of alcoholism, surplus women, rape and molestation, robbery, racism, casteism, etc
which is funny, because history has proven that Islam has divided, and not united.


So its a crime to be religious? thats a weak comment. The extremists are still a minority but because they blow up stuff, they suddenly represent a certain group of people, sheer ignorance.
I never said it was a crime to be religious.

I merely stated that because Pakistan is 1. reliigon and 2. Muslim, they have a knack for idiocy and extremism.

You didnt answer the following question, "No offence but you seem to be filled with anger, frustration and hatred? people like that will most likely die in that state too. by any chance are you that same guy on every other forum site i seem to see on? the elequent style posts of copy and paste mixed with a few typed words. who one day claims to be sikh from canada, then Hindu from UK, then zionist from India and somtimes all 3 in one and 1 in 3? and also pro Isreali pro democradtic anti paki/muslim? by any chance do you follow the protocals too? you know what protocals im talking about"
I post on this forum and two others, all under the same screen name and as a Hindu.

Who said muslims are perfect? only the ignorant generlize a group of people! remember just because he or she is muslim, jew, chrisitian, hindu or sikh dont mean they all follow their faith whole heartedly matter of fact, most dont specially these days most are whatever by name only and barely practicing. Im a qualified Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer in windows server 2000 & Professional and also with a BSc degree in computing and business managment graduated from queenmary university in London along with decent A-Levels & GCSE's gained from school/college, but according to you since im dumb and brainwashed, k thanks for the compliment.
Oh please.

Almost every NRI desi has a degree in something or the other ,especially in computers.

You arent anything special, as there are plenty of people who get degrees who lack advanced intellects and the ability to comprehend religion in multiple layers.


Last comment, The muslim world during their 'Flourishing Golden Era' and overall has had a prafound and lasting influence on our lives today, the list is long and full of surprises, but perhaps the most important thing that the Islamic empire did for us was to perserve, refine and improve all the knowledge left by the scholars of the ancients and without that work by the muslim scholars all that knowledge might have been lost and our lives would have been much the poorer.
already been addressed.

every single group on the planet will overblow their importance.
It doesnt mean anything.

The fact stands that Muslims havent done much, if anything in the last 200-300 years.

Almost everything they did was ripped-off of another culture.
:)

[topg96]

How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword?
Answer:
It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread bythe sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.


1. Islam means peace.
Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one’s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).

2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.
Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.


3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary.
The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book "Islam at the cross road" (Page 8):

"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."

4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.
Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.


5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.
Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.

6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.
The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.

7. Indonesia and Malaysia.
Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, "Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?"

8. East Coast of Africa.
Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?"

9. Thomas Carlyle.
The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book "Heroes and Hero worship", refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: "The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can."

10. No compulsion in religion.
With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse:

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error"[Al-Qur’an 2:256]

11. Sword of the Intellect.
It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:

"Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." [Al-Qur’an 16:125]

12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.
An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?

13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.
Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?

14. Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson.
Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson rightly says, "People who worry that nuclear weaponry will one day fall in the hands of the Arabs, fail to realize that the Islamic bomb has been dropped already, it fell the day MUHAMMED (pbuh) was born".

[ali_sakur]

Question:

How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword?

Answer:

It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.
Quote:


2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.



Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.


perhaps George Bush could use a similar argument to justify his war in Iraq. Don't be a fool, perhaps you could say that BS if islam only used force once in a while, but the whole expansion of Islam was built upon bloody conquest after conquest. Tell me, When Caliph Umar invaded Christian territory in Syria and palestine, and destroyed the Byzantine empire was that to maintain peace? or was that to seize control of Jerusalem (which is what he did after he defeated the Army) and he sowed the seeds of hatred that led to the crusades. Was islam maintaining peace when it attacked the Sassadin Empire (persia) slaughtered towns and villages, Forced the Zoroastrians who lived in cities that resisted their imperialism to convert to islam, and nearly exterminated the religion with only a few million zoroastrians living today. Was islam maintaining peace when they attacked Egypt (which was heavily Christian at the time, like palestine, Lebanon and Syria) and othe parts of NOrth Africa. WAs islam maintaining peace when they, for no reason other than extending the reach of their empire attacked Christians in spain, and ultimately occupied them for over 800 years. Was islam maintaining peace when they Attacked Northern Afghanistan and NorthWEstern India, killing 100s of thousands as they tried to escape the conquest? Islam has a long history, and it isn't of waging war to maintain peace, its about waging war to establish the supremacy of their religion and Sharia law in lands where it has no place being. Islam's wars were all imperialist, not about maintaining peace.


Quote:
3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary.

The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book "Islam at the cross road" (Page 8):

"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."



What basis is there for that?



Quote:
4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.

Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.



How did the muslims get to spain? hmmm? I guess that they just wound up their peacefully, maintaining peace by conquering the land of others hey? what about the muslim jihadi's who wiped out the Christians who lived in southern spain? It is good that they were wiped out, they had no place their in the first place. Like you people believe that the Jews have no place in Palestine.



Quote:
5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.

Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.



this is the only truth you've brouth to the table. Most muslim rulers allowed Christians and jews to practice their faith, with some degree of freedom (usually very limitied social rights though, so to encourage people to convert to islam to improve their social standing)


Quote:
6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.

The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.


Don't be a fool, the muslims didn't have the millitary power to hold Conquer, much less hold onto all of India. and many of the provinces were under them weren't controlled by them, there were Hindu princes who gave them tribute and taxes as vassles but they were not obliged to follow islamic law. Stop twisting the facts and oversimplifying stuff.


Quote:
7. Indonesia and Malaysia.

Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, "Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?"



This is one of the few places to which islam was spread peacfully through traders, if only islam was introduced into all places like this



Quote:
8. East Coast of Africa.

Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?"



see indonesia


Quote:
9. Thomas Carlyle.

The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book "Heroes and Hero worship", refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: "The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can."



You probably don't even understand what he meant, but we see even from the quran that once the muslims became strong enough in popularity as a religoin and wealth their rulers devoted themselves to conquering everything around them (see response to point 2)


Quote:
10. No compulsion in religion.

With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse:

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error"[Al-Qur’an 2:256]


Are you saying that the Muslims did not conquer all the Land from Portugal to Punjab? That sounds like spreading a religion's influence and reach, by the sword to me. Now, did every living sould in those territories get subjected to compulsion of religon? thats a different issue. The truth is that some muslim rulers allowed those who submitted peacefully to them to retain their religon and some degree of freedom, but it is well documented in india that those residents of cities that defied muslim conquerors were either slaughtered or forced to convert as a part of their surrender.


Quote:
11. Sword of the Intellect.

It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:

"Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." [Al-Qur’an 16:125]



What the quran says is not at issue, What muslim rulers did is.


Quote:
12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.

An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?



y'all gotta go back to 1984? Well of course islam is increasing faster, islam is in the third world where birthrates are 3 and 4 times that of the west. Arabs/Africans/Desis have 6 kids, look at the mean age of the people in arab/ African/ desi countries compared to the mean age of western countries. They have a larger proportion of kids relative to the parental generation. the same is true for INDOnesia. The converts int he west weren't even happening in large numbers in that space of time so don't come with the bs about converts.




Quote:
13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.

Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?


Of course it grows faster in Europe and America, it has only recently been introduced there and people like to try out novel things. Europe and America have been saturated with Christianity for centuries. Islam can loose its novelty very quickly.