Terrorist attacks a good thing for Islam?

[Raga]

I’m sure that many of us Muslims are well aware of the level of ignorance the Americans and the rest of the world had when it came to the knowledge of Islam pre-nine-eleven. But, right after the attack, books on Islam had the highest selling rate ever recorded and, in addition to this, documentaries, journals, personal bios, and numerous other forms of media have shed light on this religion and have been able to educate the world about Islam.

Ever since the attacks took place in New York, it seems that the world has finally realized that Islam really exists. Don’t get me wrong, I am 100% sure that there were other ways of spreading information of Islam but do you feel that if it weren’t for the terrorist attacks on 9/11, that the majority of the world would still be in the shadows of confusion and ignorance about Islam?

To me, I strongly believe that if it weren’t for the terrorist attacks, many people to this day would have no clue as to what Islam is. And if they did, they would believe that it was an extremists religion that practiced suicide killing… period. Although, I must admit, there are many people today that believe Islam is a religion of hatred and death instead of a religion of peace (which the name ‘Islam’ itself means), I am positive that a larger survey of people now know what Islam is really about.

Discuss. Do you feel that Islam would be as popular (in a positive or negative manner) if it weren’t for the terrorist attacks? What other feelings do you have that you’d like to share?

Please, no bad mouthing anyone’s opinion.

[ohasanzoladiiio]

So much of the world still doesn't understand Islam, and people buy those books to find "flaws" in Islam to manipulate and exploit.

And a lot of the literature that is out there isn't even written by Muslims. A lot of it is Western anti-Muslim propoganda.

[Sw33tn3zZ]

oh my tomm is 9/11 :neutral:

[Raga]

So much of the world still doesn't understand Islam, and people buy those books to find "flaws" in Islam to manipulate and exploit.

And a lot of the literature that is out there isn't even written by Muslims. A lot of it is Western anti-Muslim propoganda.
I agree, many people dont look at the numerious good things about Islam, instead, they see the smallest negative thing and make it into a big thing.

However, there are a few people who have taken the time to really understand what Islam is all about. One author, which my parents love, is Karen Armstrong. She is a nun but she had devoted her life to researching Islam and, from my parent's perspective, has done a good job in explaining what Islam is all about.

[ohasanzoladiiio]

I agree, many people dont look at the numerious good things about Islam, instead, they see the smallest negative thing and make it into a big thing.

However, there are a few people who have taken the time to really understand what Islam is all about. One author, which my parents love, is Karen Armstrong. She is a nun but she had devoted her life to researching Islam and, from my parent's perspective, has done a good job in explaining what Islam is all about.


I'll have to look into her. I went to a Catholic university and one of my theology professors once said something along the lines of people who are more religious, regardless of which faith tend to get along better than people of the same faith if they aren't at that same level. I agree with that a lot. I would say I'm not very religious... I fast and stuff, but I do my share of stuff that typical Americans would do that's haram... And I see a lot of people with the "I don't do that so I'm better than you attitude"... and at the same time I'm pretty judgmental about my friends who don't even fast or who get drunk A LOT...
I had a point here but I forgot lolz...

[Raga]

I'll have to look into her. I went to a Catholic university and one of my theology professors once said something along the lines of people who are more religious, regardless of which faith tend to get along better than people of the same faith if they aren't at that same level. I agree with that a lot. I would say I'm not very religious... I fast and stuff, but I do my share of stuff that typical Americans would do that's haram... And I see a lot of people with the "I don't do that so I'm better than you attitude"... and at the same time I'm pretty judgmental about my friends who don't even fast or who get drunk A LOT...
I had a point here but I forgot lolz...
Actually, you kinda lost me. :sarb:

[abaddon]

I’m sure that many of us Muslims are well aware of the level of ignorance the Americans and the rest of the world had when it came to the knowledge of Islam pre-nine-eleven. But, right after the attack, books on Islam had the highest selling rate ever recorded and, in addition to this, documentaries, journals, personal bios, and numerous other forms of media have shed light on this religion and have been able to educate the world about Islam.

Ever since the attacks took place in New York, it seems that the world has finally realized that Islam really exists. Don’t get me wrong, I am 100% sure that there were other ways of spreading information of Islam but do you feel that if it weren’t for the terrorist attacks on 9/11, that the majority of the world would still be in the shadows of confusion and ignorance about Islam?

To me, I strongly believe that if it weren’t for the terrorist attacks, many people to this day would have no clue as to what Islam is. And if they did, they would believe that it was an extremists religion that practiced suicide killing… period. Although, I must admit, there are many people today that believe Islam is a religion of hatred and death instead of a religion of peace (which the name ‘Islam’ itself means), I am positive that a larger survey of people now know what Islam is really about.

Discuss. Do you feel that Islam would be as popular (in a positive or negative manner) if it weren’t for the terrorist attacks? What other feelings do you have that you’d like to share?

Please, no bad mouthing anyone’s opinion.

Any percieved gain that might have bennefited the awareness of Islam is spurious. Educated individuals already know about what Islam really stood for; the average American, the one who really doesn't understand Islam, doesn't read books about Islam; instead, he/she sees the attacks on Israel by Islamic militants and the tapes from Ossama on the vacuous medium called Fox News and believes that that is what is Islam. To many Americans, Islam is a scapegoat and is a ready and accessable demon; Islam is now on a level to which African Americans, Latinos, and other working-class, blue collar Minortiies have been exposed to.

[BlingBling.bOY]

Any percieved gain that might have bennefited the awareness of Islam is spurious. Educated individuals already know about what Islam really stood for; the average American, the one who really doesn't understand Islam, doesn't read books about Islam; instead, he/she sees the attacks on Israel by Islamic militants and the tapes from Ossama on the vacuous medium called Fox News and believes that that is what is Islam. To many Americans, Islam is a scapegoat and is a ready and accessable demon; Islam is now on a level to which African Americans, Latinos, and other working-class, blue collar Minortiies have been exposed to.
i agree with you really nice comment, thats true people just watch stupid CNN for latest and you know CNN talks **** 24/7, CNN doesnt show the behind the scene, they only tell you the one side of the story

[ShivaChrist]

I’m sure that many of us Muslims are well aware of the level of ignorance the Americans and the rest of the world had when it came to the knowledge of Islam pre-nine-eleven. But, right after the attack, books on Islam had the highest selling rate ever recorded and, in addition to this, documentaries, journals, personal bios, and numerous other forms of media have shed light on this religion and have been able to educate the world about Islam.

Ever since the attacks took place in New York, it seems that the world has finally realized that Islam really exists. Don’t get me wrong, I am 100% sure that there were other ways of spreading information of Islam but do you feel that if it weren’t for the terrorist attacks on 9/11, that the majority of the world would still be in the shadows of confusion and ignorance about Islam?

To me, I strongly believe that if it weren’t for the terrorist attacks, many people to this day would have no clue as to what Islam is. And if they did, they would believe that it was an extremists religion that practiced suicide killing… period. Although, I must admit, there are many people today that believe Islam is a religion of hatred and death instead of a religion of peace (which the name ‘Islam’ itself means), I am positive that a larger survey of people now know what Islam is really about.

Discuss. Do you feel that Islam would be as popular (in a positive or negative manner) if it weren’t for the terrorist attacks? What other feelings do you have that you’d like to share?

Please, no bad mouthing anyone’s opinion.

I disagree 100% - all it did was make the world hate Muslims. The more terrorist acts there are, the more there will be escalating problems. It is not the solution, but a very terrible problem.

[BlingBling.bOY]

Terrorists? they are the people with realy big heart, willing to end there life to fight for there muslim peoples, when som1 suicide, in Palestine, they arent doing anything wrong, there families has been killed and and they have no weapons except for usin dynamite wrraping around there self and destroy the jews... its not wrong, they are giving there life to prove to the world, muslims are not scared of anything, they can giv there LIFE in path of Islam to able to protect the Religion and there families, but people dont see other side of the story, they just say wut they saw in da media, cuz media doesnt show bak scenes...

[Raga]

Terrorists? they are the people with realy big heart, willing to end there life to fight for there muslim peoples, when som1 suicide, in Palestine, they arent doing anything wrong, there families has been killed and and they have no weapons except for usin dynamite wrraping around there self and destroy the jews... its not wrong, they are giving there life to prove to the world, muslims are not scared of anything, they can giv there LIFE in path of Islam to able to protect the Religion and there families, but people dont see other side of the story, they just say wut they saw in da media, cuz media doesnt show bak scenes...I agree with you on this. If people truly understood the pain of loss and the frustration that many Palestinians have gone through and are enduring today, it is of no surprise to me that many turn to suicide. Many suicide bombers in Palestine have lost everything—family, homes, friends, etc.—to the Israeli military, bulldozers, and bombers. If nothing is left in one’s life, what else is there living for?

And it’s true that many of the Palestinians don’t have any other means to fight back. They do no have weapons that are supplied by other countries, such as the Israelis do with America. They are basically defenseless. The American media portrays the Palestinians as suicidal people but I’m sure that if the same Americans had to go through the hell that many Palestinians have tolerated, their state of mind would not be much different from that of the Palestinians today.

[ggggunit]

Terrorists? they are the people with realy big heart, willing to end there life to fight for there muslim peoples, when som1 suicide, in Palestine, they arent doing anything wrong, there families has been killed and and they have no weapons except for usin dynamite wrraping around there self and destroy the jews... its not wrong, they are giving there life to prove to the world, muslims are not scared of anything, they can giv there LIFE in path of Islam to able to protect the Religion and there families, but people dont see other side of the story, they just say wut they saw in da media, cuz media doesnt show bak scenes...


If they blow up the Israeli army no one can condemn them from a moral standpoint as terrorists, but if they consistantly blow up busses of defensless people they are cowards. They should rise up against the Armies of their enemies not civilians, especilly if they are defenseless. Look at the Great muslim millitary leaders throughout history, none of them ever went about sneeking around an army to attack civilians. Suicide attacks against civilians besmirches the millitary glory that islam had from 700AD to 1600AD. Look at all the people that the muslims conquered, the palestinian's owe islam's Glorious millitary history more than attacks against civilians. And thats just my two cents, they can attack an army anyway they wan't they would be guerrilas, an not terrorists, and perfectly legitimate in most people's eyes. The Palestinians consistantly loose the PR war to israel because of their attacks on civilians, if they were smart they would do what they needed to do to get American public opinion on their side, then Israel's support mat (america's Money and millitary aid) woul be pulled from underneath them, because the congress would feel pressure to take the palestinian's side.

The palestinians are the ones impeding their own advancement

[Monica#1Actress]

I think Islam is a great religion! But 9/11 wasn't the right way to exploit it!
I lost my cousin and her 4 month old baby in the attacks!
These terrorists aren't muslims!
It is an insult to muslims if the 9/11 attackers are called muslims!
They are beasts and idiots who use the name of Islam and Jihad to take responsibilty for their attacks!
They are giving a beautiful religion a bad name!
I have a lot of muslimd friends, and I saw them suffer racism after 9/11!
Everything is ok now, but still, the 9/11 attackers were not muslims, they were inhuman idiots!
Muslims are peaceful people!

[Nuclear]

Yes the 9/11 attacks sure got the message across about Islam thats why the Americans are killing Muslims more by the hundreds and thousands, While Islamic books are having the highest selling rate ever recorded the muslim death rate will probably end up the highest ever recorded too :sarb:. If any of u's think this is the right way to get ur religion noticed i feel sorry 4 u's,

[Adz4eva]

Good question. Im gonna have to agree with you aswel, after 9/11 there were many reports, and I mean loads, of americans asking about the 'moslem bible'. They didnt even know the name, of the Islamic holy book.

No doubt that in many peoples minds, they will have a negative attitude towards Islam, that doesnt suprise, if you sit on your fat ass and watch CNN or Fox news all day, what do you expect to learn anyway? However, people who are genuinely curious, who at first didnt know anything about Islam, will no doubt have done some research and had a read of some books.

So if your asking did 9-11 bring awareness about the religion, without doubt, everybody you meet now will have heard about 'muslims' and 'islam', what they think about it, is a different question altogether.

The message of Allah swt will spread regardless of how much lies and propaganda the americans pump out on the news, they are fighting a losing battle, thats why even though it does get to me the lengths these people go to, I always keep one verse in mind...

"They plot and they plan,
and Allah too plans,
and Allah is the best of planners."
Quran 008.030

[Cunard]

after the US dropped nukes on Japan....everyone damn well heard about America

is that a good thing?

probably not

[M-V-P]

I disagree 100% - all it did was make the world hate Muslims. The more terrorist acts there are, the more there will be escalating problems. It is not the solution, but a very terrible problem.
i totaly agree... how can anyone say terrorism helped people become more aware of your religion or teach them about it, lol.... did any of you guys go to school....

[M-V-P]

Yes the 9/11 attacks sure got the message across about Islam thats why the Americans are killing Muslims more by the hundreds and thousands, While Islamic books are having the highest selling rate ever recorded the muslim death rate will probably end up the highest ever recorded too :sarb:. If any of u's think this is the right way to get ur religion noticed i feel sorry 4 u's,
very well said... atleast theres a few of us that show signs of a brain...

[Raga]

Regardless of whether people now have a negative or posstive perspective of Islam, is it not true that before the attacks the majority of the world did not know a single thing about Islam, much less know that it was a religion?

I completely agree that Islam has been given a bad image due to the terrorist attacks but I still believe that if it werent for them, the world would still be ignorant and clueless.

This evidently was not a win-win situation from any view point but when it comes to bringing awaress of Islam I believe that they did win.

[Raga]

i totaly agree... how can anyone say terrorism helped people become more aware of your religion or teach them about it, lol.... did any of you guys go to school....
But it did. Doesnt the world know more about Islam because they were afraid of Islam after that attack?

A wise man once said that we fear only what we do not know. And it was very clear that the world did not know much about Islam and that is why they were afraid of it. But now, after seeing all the documentaries of Mohammad and Islam, many more people are aware of Islam and what it's all about.

Sure, there are still those who have a bad perspective of Islam but we cant change everyone's state of mind. But the terrorist attacks did open America and the world's eye to Islam's world.

[The Anti Desi]

No...after the attacks, it is harder to defend our religion. It has exposed many of the harsh realities in the Mideast, and it is difficult to differientiate what is Islam and what is Middle Eastern culture. And the worst part is, they in the Mideast claim it is Islam.

[Adz4eva]

I think the confusion here is because you ask a different question in the thread title, and a different one in the poll.

[abaddon]

Terrorists? they are the people with realy big heart, willing to end there life to fight for there muslim peoples, when som1 suicide, in Palestine, they arent doing anything wrong, there families has been killed and and they have no weapons except for usin dynamite wrraping around there self and destroy the jews... its not wrong, they are giving there life to prove to the world, muslims are not scared of anything, they can giv there LIFE in path of Islam to able to protect the Religion and there families, but people dont see other side of the story, they just say wut they saw in da media, cuz media doesnt show bak scenes...

It is true that in the News Business, blood sells. Indeed, these reporters are bent on focusing in on the specific negativities of an event; but I will remain reticent condoning these suicide attacks. I am, by no means, an expert on the Palestinian situation, but I will venture a question as to why the Palestinians haven't practiced civil disobedience in their efforts to gain further land. Further, the suicide attack, in the eyes of the world, can be easily dismissed as an act of fundementalism-and only through moderation can peaceful change, a far more positive means than armed change, be attained. I will say that I, as a pro-Israeli, am a bit biased

[appenzeller]

Islam is in no way violent. 9/11 was not correct and no reason can justify what happened on that day. Innocent people died and innocent people are still dieing today thanks to the actions of Bush. Islam has increased in popularity, but it is in no way positive. Here in Europe, Islam is looked down upon as the 'scum' religion. I personally don't agree with this at all. I mean, just because a few idiots wanted to kill themselves for what they believed in, then why should a whole religion and the people associated with it suffer too?

[you-are-only-1]

So much of the world still doesn't understand Islam, and people buy those books to find "flaws" in Islam to manipulate and exploit.

And a lot of the literature that is out there isn't even written by Muslims. A lot of it is Western anti-Muslim propoganda.
you right.!
Islam is a very simple religon, first of all we don't have to buy any fucking literature at all, cause we have Quran....

[TechPhunk]

How can you say the western world hates Muslims? Are Muslims in the middle east taught the ways of Daoists? Why did Americans have to learn about Islam prior? Lets not forget that this was the 2nd bombing of the WTC. The first one happened in 92 I believe, but there was no spike in sales. Then it happened again in 01 and sure, literature sales rose, but not because people wanted to find out what Islam was about, but because they wanted to find out where in any Islamic literature it says that innocent people should be targeted.

[ShivaChrist]

The western world hates muslims. Be specific.

No, the West does not hate Muslims in general - What the West hates is ignorant Muslims who have nothing better to do then think "the big bad western powers hate the Muslims!"

Oh, and they especially hate the muslims who drive planes into buildings and kill thousands of people (ie terrorists).

[TechPhunk]

No, the West does not hate Muslims in general - What the West hates is ignorant Muslims who have nothing better to do then think "the big bad western powers hate the Muslims!"

Oh, and they especially hate the muslims who drive planes into buildings and kill thousands of people (ie terrorists).


aye, who knew that flying planes into buildings would be such a bad thing! Rules of Engagement, pff! who needs those anyway.

[Z4K5T4R]

I think Islam is a great religion! But 9/11 wasn't the right way to exploit it!
I lost my cousin and her 4 month old baby in the attacks!
These terrorists aren't muslims!
It is an insult to muslims if the 9/11 attackers are called muslims!
They are beasts and idiots who use the name of Islam and Jihad to take responsibilty for their attacks!
They are giving a beautiful religion a bad name!
I have a lot of muslimd friends, and I saw them suffer racism after 9/11!
Everything is ok now, but still, the 9/11 attackers were not muslims, they were inhuman idiots!
Muslims are peaceful people!
Sorry to hear about your cousin and her baby, thats sad. But you have to sometimes open your mind to certain extent and see where they are coming from. The Iraq war - people are losing their family and friends there, is it necasary for countries to be against Iraq?

You are never the judge of who is a true muslim and who isn't so you shouldnt say they're not muslims.

Racism isn't something people wake up to and think *hey am going to be racists today* they're racists to begin with and 9/11 and such inicidents are just an excuse to abuse people.

[Indian_Eyess]

Sorry to hear about your cousin and her baby, thats sad. But you have to sometimes open your mind to certain extent and see where they are coming from. The Iraq war - people are losing their family and friends there, is it necasary for countries to be against Iraq?

You are never the judge of who is a true muslim and who isn't so you shouldnt say they're not muslims.

Racism isn't something people wake up to and think *hey am going to be racists today* they're racists to begin with and 9/11 and such inicidents are just an excuse to abuse people.
regardless of any kind of suffering the 'terrorrists' mite have experienced or watched, it still gives no right for them to violate the rules of engagement. The Prophet and his companions suffered more, but they always remembered the protocols of war. There is no justification watsoever for what happened on that day. I'm not saying that they didnt have it coming. I mean, its true that Muslims suffered and they have the right to resist and fight oppression, but not on the expense of Islam and innocent lives.

[Z4K5T4R]

regardless of any kind of suffering the 'terrorrists' mite have experienced or watched, it still gives no right for them to violate the rules of engagement. The Prophet and his companions suffered more, but they always remembered the protocols of war. There is no justification watsoever for what happened on that day. I'm not saying that they didnt have it coming. I mean, its true that Muslims suffered and they have the right to resist and fight oppression, but not on the expense of Islam and innocent lives.
Yes killing the innocent is wrong i agree

Dont forget Islam isn't just about PEACE, it is also about DEFENCE!

[Indian_Eyess]

Yes killing the innocent is wrong i agree

Dont forget Islam isn't just about PEACE, it is also about DEFENCE!
I never said it was all about peace, the Prophet Muhammad laid down protocols for Muslims, do not kill women, elderly, children, or religious leaders. If they surrender, treat them with respect and provide them with the same facilities you would provide your own kind with. Do not kill other Muslims, do not kill civilians unless they pose an active threat to you and your people (i.e, civilian combatants).

He didnt say kill anyone and anything in defense. If the ideas followed by the Muslims today were inacted in the time of the Prophet, his armies would enter Makkah and slay everyone there or sell them into slavery, he didnt.

[malkeet]

terrorism/extremism is never a good thing for a religion. the terrorist attacks have only succeeded in making the world more racist towards members of the islamic faith

[ShivaChrist]

No, the West fears Islam because we wouldn't waste 20 minutes writing a thesis on why we hate Islam. Big bleepin' surprise that you don't even believe 9/11 since you've been brainwashed. I don't blame innocent Muslims, but I blame Muslims like you who continually try to fabricate stories.

You are a sad example of a Muslim.

Bullshit. The west fears Islaam because it is the complete opposite of what they stand for. While the west seeks to strip people of religion through the guise of "secular freedoms," Islaam seeks to establish a society based upon a divine order. It is only natural for a system as satanic as that of the west to stand opposed to this, because if Islaam were ever established in enough areas, it could cause a ripple affect that would threaten western supremacy in territories they wish to maintain control over.

There is a reason why the Iranian revolution scared the SHIT out of Europe and North Amerika. If the west truly stood for democracy, why were they fighting tooth and nail to keep the oppressive shah in power while the people of that country overwhelmingly despised him? Why did they overthrow the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh? Why should Arabs and other muslims accept democratic ideals when the west themselves don't even value them?

I'm one of the many people who don't accept the story that has been fed to us about 9-11 as true. I don't believe a handful of Arab rebels fighting with leftover AK-47's from the cold war could pull off an attack as sophisticated and calculated as what occurred on that day. That attack was conducted with military precision, and there is NO WAY IN HELL those two towers could collapse the way they did because they were hit by planes...especially when the architect of the towers himself stated that he designed them to withstand 5-6 planes colliding into them. Those buildings were brought down by bombs placed strategically within the structure, and there are eyewitnesses who were there that day who will testify to that fact.

What is the probability of two towers, standing independendtly of one another, and STRUCK independendtly of one another (and at different times), collapsing the EXACT SAME WAY? Why does the government get nervous every time these questions are asked? Why don't they get a serious forum of discussion?

Bottom line: This government brought those towers down, there is no doubt in my mind about it. If you look at 9-11 as a crime, establish a motive, and see who benefited, the facts become clear as day. They used those attacks as an excuse to invade Iraq, overthrow their government, and take control of the petroleum fields in the region....now those bastards are swimming in oil, wiping their ass with dollar bills, charging YOU absurd amounts for gas, and calling it a crisis.

There is no crisis...they control the prices, they can charge you WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT for gas, but they know that if the American people are stupid enough to believe that a bunch of arabs hijacked three planes using BOXCUTTERS, and flew them into two towers causing them to "implode" and collapse, they'll fall for anything.

But, you know, it's easy to blame everything on Muslims...

....THE FUCK OUTTA HERE!!!

[Cunard]

12 in Jordan hail 9/11 attacks after terror sentencing
By JAMAL HALABY
Associated Press
9/12/2005

AMMAN, Jordan - Twelve Islamic militants screamed praise for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks as a Jordanian court ordered them jailed Sunday for up to three years for plotting terrorist strikes against the American and Israeli embassies......

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050912/1056927.asp



so howcome muslims fighting the west and against western agression stake claim and back the attacks in the name of muslims?

[ShivaChrist]

hahah I almost want to say you have the "angry black man" disease at the rate you're going. You're the one with the issues, friend, and if you can't see that then I feel really sorry for you. Bad shit can happen when you don't expect it, and 9/11 was a perfect example. You can whine and bitch about conspiracy theories all you want, but its sad when thousands of people die and the only thing you can do is try to come up with some assinine reason why Muslim terrorists aren't to blame.

Hey, while we're on the subject, the US killed President Kenedy and we've been in contact with aliens for the last few decades.

LOL, well, coming from you, that's a compliment.

Listen, I don't know what backwater cornfield you come from, but I was born and raised in NYC, I had friends who died in that shit, and I have friends who had friends and family who lost their lives that day as well. I have every right on earth to question what happened, and if the stories this government is trying to make me accept don't add up, then QUESTIONS NEED TO BE ANSWERED. It is an insult to my fucking intelligence to be told that three airplanes were hijacked by a bunch of guys with boxcutters, then two were comandeered over restricted airspace right under the nose of the military into the heart of Manhattan. You still can't explain why this government can dispatch the air force to try and save one lousy golfer, but can't dispatch them to stop a commerical aircraft from colliding into a world famous landmark. You can't explain why FEMA was in New York City on MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 10th, 2001....obviously they knew SOMETHING. You can't explain shit my man, so you should stay in your place.

[ShivaChrist]

I don't see you refuting my points, all I see you doing is calling me names. Typical.

What points? All I see is someone trying to find a conspiracy theory where there isn't one. The facts show that the terrorists tried to bomb the Trade Towers during Clinton's run as president, and failed. They upped the ante and tried again, and this time succeeded.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm

On 26 February 1993, a car loaded with 1,200 pounds of explosives blew up in a parking garage under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring about a thousand others. The blast did not, as its planners intended, bring down the towers — that was finally accomplished by flying two hijacked airliners into the twin towers on the morning of 11 September 2001.

***

You can try to come up with all the conspiracy theories all you want, but the facts remain th at the terrorists tried to blow the Trade Center up in 1993, and they did it successfully in 9/11.

[Monica#1Actress]

Ok! This is getting ridiculous! Inoocent people died on Sept 11, including my cousin, her 4 month child, my friends father and older brother and my mom lost her friends! This isn't to gain attention or sympathy! But it is not good in the way Islam was exposed about to the world because of Sept 11! It was better for the religion to remain unknown! Because no matter how much Americans and others are learning about Islam, they are finding ways to criticize it! That is not fair, but who can blame them! And now with the London attacks, people immediatley pointed out Muslim terrorists to be behind it, which probably is true I am not sure! But why are they pointing and blaming Islam? Because of 9/11! Islam shoud have been exposed in a positive manner, not like 9/11! Some muslims are still suffering today, I know, I see my friends still suffer, and they are wonderful human beings! Islam is a very simple and peaceful religion, but these stupid terroists made it look like the terror attacks are part of Islam! They misused the term "Jihad", saying it has something to do with the terror attacks, which is not true!!! Now many non-muslims think that Jihad is a bad thing! Terrorists of all races and religions should be punished so severly and so brutally that they forget their names and die in misery for all the pain they have caused!!!!!!

[ShivaChrist]

lol, i dont even know whether to respond to this or not, because your a prime example of a fundementalist. First of all, i am no prideful american, I am no patriot and belive things The US does are shameful at worst, but this country isn't evil, and i'm glad I live here, it just has to improve on its money greedy and racist ways. If you think there is no such thing as terrorists and this country is so morallistically evil why don't you go live in afganistan? Why don't you send your sister there to be married to some fifty year old wife abuser rather then have her live in the usa aka a country where she will be a "whore"?

I mean, I don't know where you get this "golfer" story from, but your "research" is nothing but superfluous articles on a pseudo-intelligent internet site, spewing incessantly biased rhetoric. Don't belive everything you read on the internet, my friend, you are no engineer so you possibilty can have no comprehension on the basis and structure of the collapse of a building. I could do the same as you, i could go to a myraid of anti-islamic websites made by some pimply faced high school kid and copy and paste complicated instructions on the desctuction of the WTC by islamic terrorists. But, i'm not as stupid as you, to believe everthing I read.

I mean, the US couldn't even handle one little hurricane which they knew about a week in advance, they aren't as "powerful" as you think.

What the United states got out of the war, was one giant debt. Sure, i also belive the wear was spawned on oil, but they woudln't cause it by blowing up the world trade center, like i said, if they really wanted to start a war, they woudln't have to blow up thier own buildings that are econimically advancing the wealthy class, they woudl do it some other way. I mean, why are you placing muslims on a pedestal? Every society is capable of terrorist attacks. The Patriots won the wear against the British in the Revolutionary War, When England was the most powerful nation in the world, and the americans were a back-water rebel nation, the under-dogs are known to supercede great powers in history....

Lol, now with the religion aspect, you are stealing something i said, I said the amreicans tried to play the religoin card and blame the "evil commies" in the cold wer, you took my same sentence but changed it to "evil muslims." which proves you are trying to persuade people that americans are truely evil, by using other people's logic. Um, I don't know why you think americans are trying to eradicate religion, this country is a BIBLE THUMPING country, like i said, they are imposing all these laws to impose the christian religion, I used my evidence of the ban gay marriges, and wanting to oveturn roe vs wade, I mean bush would LOVE everyone to convert to christianity. But he can't force people to, because this country allows "freedom of religion." I'm sure he would love to abolisht hat rule, but guess what? if he did, since you are against seclarism, YOU woudln't be allowed to practice islam!, therefore you woudl be forced to convert to christianity! THIS is the reason, why secularism is in practice today, to allow non-christians LIKE yourself to practice thier religion.

Hmm, you say this country allows "thier women" to be "worthless whores." Well this is a country full of women lawyers, doctors, scientists etc..etc.., Would you rather your women be abused, and beaten up and depressed like those in afganistan? Why do you think a woman has no values simply based on her hymen. that is messed up and illogical. Women in the middle east are forced to not have an education, and marry men thirty years old then them. now that is pretty fucked up.

P.S. i am agaisnt the iraq war myself, and believe it to be faulty.

And this is exactly why I appreciate your answer! I am for the iraq war myself, but what you said was 100% correct and it is always a breath of fresh air to hear someone who believes opposite of your belief, yet makes sense. Part of what makes the US great is that we can have these polar opposite views and live in the same country.

Before the indoctrinated America-hater chimes in about that, there is a difference between belief and making shit up to suit your argument.

I'm not even going to touch that HUGE novel SugarHILLsides wrote, other then to point out one little thing at the end:

The quality of a Muslim woman will always be infinitely superior to that of a western woman, regardless of her social status or occupation. True story.

Showing your biggotry again, I see.

[TechPhunk]

So you concur that this government engages in shameful acts, and based on greedy and racist principles, but still refuse to call it evil? How much more deluded can you get?

1. Secondly, I never said "terrorists" don't exist, but I have to admit, I don't like that word. It's a word that has been thrown around too lightly these days and reeks of double standard. Even if Usamah Bin Laden did mastermind 9-11 (which I believe to be a big lie), he still could never come close to the acts of evil that have been committed against millions of people all over the world by this country. 2,000 Americans AINT SHIT in the larger scope of things, sorry to break it to you...and I know people who died that day. But come on, lets just face facts.

If you aren't a patriot thats a good thing, but stop making excuses for an institution that has proven intself to be the epitome of everything foul just because you are afforded a few petty luxuries. What the fuck kind of spineless reasoning is that? People who think like that should kill themselves...I firmy believe that.



What the fuck are you talking about man? Payne Stewart was a real golfer, and this was an ACTUAL EVENT. I don't know what websites you think I'm quoting from, but here, this is from wikipedia:

2. On October 25, 1999, a month after his United States team rallied to win the Ryder Cup in Brookline, Massachusetts, Stewart, age 42, died while flying in a Learjet from Orlando to Texas. National Transportation Safety Board investigators later concluded that the plane suffered a gradual loss of cabin pressure early in the flight, and that all on board died of hypoxia. The plane, apparently still on autopilot, was observed by F-16 fighter aircraft from the Air National Guards of several states. Other than condensation on the plane's windows, the military pilots saw nothing amiss. They were unable to directly observe the Learjet's pilot or copilot. President Bill Clinton authorized that the plane be shot down if it came near any major inhabited area. It did not, and was permitted to continue flying until it ran out of fuel and, after an uncontrolled descent, crashed into a field near Aberdeen, South Dakota. Among the five other people aboard the plane was Bruce Borland, a highly-regarded golf architect with the Jack Nicklaus golf course design company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payne_Stewart

Now, read what I bolded VERY CAREFULLY. If you read this and still don't see something sickly wrong with what happened on September 11th then you need to get your fucking head checked...quick.

3. and you're right...I'm not an engineer or an architect, but if I posted articales written by engineers and architects who are the ones who put forth these facts and figures before I did, you'd probably call them "pseudo-intellecuals" and conspiracy infatuated crocks, right? Please don't act like you actually give a fuck about credentials, because I know you don't. I could bring 10 engineers and 10 architects and present them to you and it wouldn't change a damn thing.




WoW....just....WOW. How long have you been living in this country, sir?



You don't seem to be a student of history, sir, because governments have played stunts like this for centuries...including Hitler. Could the United States have invaded Iraq without destroying the towers? Of course. But would they gain the absolute consent of the American people? HELL NO. Why? Because wars COST MONEY.

By destroying the towers, and concocting this phony story about hijacked planes, box-cutters, and scary cave-dwelling arabs with a strange religion, they have completely polarized the world dynamic into two: us (the west) and them(terrorists, muslims, anybody who opposes offical policy). People in this country are giving up their rights willingly left and right because the yFEAR something that just isn't there. We're worse than cattle because we are willingly getting on the slaughter line.

Now, while these two are busy fighting each other to death, they sit back and collect the spoils. This has been the GAME from the BEGINNING, and I suggest you get hip to it.





Bush doesn't give a fuck about christianity my man, that's where he's got you fooled. Why do you believe this? Because he comes on TV and says pretty things about "geezzuss" that his PR people wrote for him? You've got to be fucking kidding me man...the heartland of united states is overwhelmingly christian, so in order for bush to be put into power he had to appeal to them...they are his backbone, and the crutch that he relies on to project his false image of a "leader" to the american population.

4. Again, secularism is not merely separation of church and state, in a broader sense, it is the stripping of religous belief from the population through various policies and implementations. I'll give you an easy example of how this works:

- in most states, children are required to attend school by law.

- Schools (public, state funded) are prohibited to teach religion, or a concept of God to students.

- Since most children cannot afford private schooling, they are forced to attent public, state funded schools for most of their lives where morals and religion aren't even on the menu for teaching the youth. When they come home, mommy and daddy have been working all day, chewed up and spit out by another capitalist day in America, so of course they aren't going to teach this kid morals...they were most likely raised the same way he/she was.

This is the cycle of America my man, and this is why the average 10 year old in this country acts like a little demon, has little to no respect whatsoever and lets wondeful capitalist creations like grand theft auto and American Idol raise them when it should have been their parents doing that job.

AND guess what Banshod? These are the same people who'll readily believe in nonsensical fantasies about arabs armed with nothing but boxcutters completely devastating the most powerful city on earth located within the most powerful nation. LOL, congratulations on being another statistic.

5. Now, getting to your other point...yeah, this country has lots of females in professional fields, I'll give you that....but let's look at that for a moment. How many of these women have meaningful relationships with their children? How many of these women have had children out of wedlock? How many of these women have had affairs in their lifetime, or multiple marriages? Shit, how many of these women can cook their child a decent meal? Somewhere along the line, in this country, women forgot how to be women and actually fought for the right to be robots like their male counterparts.

In this society, women are seen as nothing more than manafacturing units. They lay on their backs and every 9 months re-inforcements roll out from between their legs...fucked up, but its true.

The quality of a Muslim woman will always be infinitely superior to that of a western woman, regardless of her social status or occupation. True story.


1. I'm still waiting for credible sources about "millions of people" that have been killed by this country within the last 200 years. Petty luxuries huh? Last time I checked, this is one of several "western" countries that allows for equal output from the input. The effort you put in yields the same return. The middle east doesn't have that.

2. Wow, seriously, unless you have any knowledge of how an ATC system works, please stfu. Please don't make me have to rape you with aviation knowledge. I garauntee it will make you hurt as much as that poor girl who was raped by 5 guys in Afghanistan.

3. I doubt you'd be able to get any engineers to believe you. Any Joe Schmoe that took college physics would know that one of the chapters you'll probably go over describes the laws of thermodynamics. And you don't trust the words of an architect because, well, they're architects and not engineers.

4. It's not up to the state to teach the children about morals and ethics. They are there to educate. The responsibility of the parent was known when they had the child. It is theirs to mold, not the governments. By allowing a public education, you ingrate, you allow for everyone to get a chance at being something they've wanted to be. From docs to lawyers to models to singers to artists to professors to computer techs. I'm sorry if there's some sort of foundation to assist children in gaining knowledge about Newtonian physics, about the atom, about Pythagoras, about Socrates, about Latin, about Anexamander, about Beethoven. Hot dam, I'm sorry that we've opened up children to the world. Sure many take it for granted, but you know, there are those that use it wisely, and that accounts for a large population of the United States. Afterall, we wouldn't have prestigious Universities like Carnegie-Mellon (of course private) or great state schools like University of Michigan or Uni of Cali, Los Angeles. God forbid we give children a chance to learn and to experience.

5. I guess living in Queens has made you numb to the rest of America. Professional women are able to take care of their children. So what if it's out of wedlock, or if it's with multiple partners? A class in Social Psych might help you out. I suggest you take that course. There are no plausible statistics out there that show any correlation with women raising fucked up children. It's on both sides of the spectrum. A woman in the states has something you neglect to have in your world, a mind of her own. Stop being so afraid of women being able to do things for themselves. Unless you find me statistics that back up your claims, sit the fuck down. When you do, I'll eat my words.

[Sykes]

Twin towers, Bad. Pentagon, good.

[TechPhunk]

Only an idiot would require excessive "sources" in order to accept this as being true. These are accepted chapters of history, my friend. 200 years ago, in this country alone, slavery was the norm, and America was lynching, burning, and outright mudering her own so-called "citizens" simply because of the color of their skin. 200 years ago certain people in this country were considered 3/5ths of a human being according to the constitution that you love so dearly. The genocide of the Native Americans, and the 150+ million people who died during the slave trade should be enough of a "credible source" to prove my point, and that's only speaking of what went on in THIS part of the world. If America can treat "her own" people with such viciousness, what makes you think others would be treated any differently? Or are genocides only genocides when the victims happen to be Jews?



Well sir, let me call your bluff. The following are excerpts from a letter by Kevin Ryan of Underwriters Laboratories to Frank Gayle of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). Underwriters Laboratories is the company that certified the steel componets used in the constuction of the World Trade Center towers:


If you wish for me to provide you with much, much more...you know, because I know how you love "credible sources." LOL. Don't waste your time "raping" little old me, I'm just a dude posting on a message board, after all.

I'll get to your other points later, I think this post is too long as it is.

150 million DID NOT die from the slave trade. That is a highly exaggerrated number. If you look at any historical timeline, there were roughly 400 kor slaves by the mid 1800's. I can agree with American Indian genocide and that's something I can't justify.

BTW, so much for your credible source. I love 911.org jumped right at the first oppurtunity that they could.

Area man stirs debate on WTC collapse
South Bend firm's lab director fired after questioning federal probe

By JOHN DOBBERSTEIN
Tribune Staff Writer

SOUTH BEND -- The laboratory director from a South Bend firm has been fired for attempting to cast doubt on the federal investigation into what caused the World Trade Center's twin towers to collapse on Sept. 11, 2001.

Kevin R. Ryan was terminated Tuesday from his job at Environmental Health Laboratories Inc., a subsidiary of Underwriters Laboratories Inc., the consumer-product safety testing giant.

On Nov. 11, Ryan wrote a letter to the National Institute of Standards and Technology -- the agency probing the collapse -- challenging the common theory that burning jet fuel weakened the steel supports holding up the 110-story skyscrapers.

Underwriters Laboratories Inc., according to Ryan, "was the company that certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings."

Ryan wrote that last year, while "requesting information," UL's chief executive officer and fire protection business manager disagreed about key issues surrounding the collapse, "except for one thing -- that the samples we certified met all requirements."

UL vehemently denied last week that it ever certified the materials.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology is conducting a $16 million, two-year investigation of the collapse of the twin towers. The agency expects to issue a draft report in January, and UL has played a limited role in the investigation.

Ryan wrote that the institute's preliminary reports suggest the WTC's supports were probably exposed to fires no hotter than 500 degrees -- only half the 1,100-degree temperature needed to forge steel, Ryan said. That's also much cooler, he wrote, than the 3,000 degrees needed to melt bare steel with no fire-proofing.

"This story just does not add up," Ryan wrote in his e-mail to Frank Gayle, deputy chief of the institute's metallurgy division, who is playing a prominent role in the agency investigation. "If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I'm sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers."

He added, "Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around (500 degrees) suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my company."

Ryan declined to comment about his letter Thursday when reached at his South Bend home.

But his allegations drew a sharp rebuke from UL, which said Ryan wrote the letter "without UL's knowledge or authorization." The company told The Tribune "there is no evidence" that any firm tested the materials used to build the towers.

"UL does not certify structural steel, such as the beams, columns and trusses used in World Trade Center," said Paul M. Baker, the company's spokesman.

Ryan was fired, Baker said, because he "expressed his own opinions as though they were institutional opinions and beliefs of UL."

"The contents of the argument itself are spurious at best, and frankly, they're just wrong," Baker said.

Seeking to head off controversy just months before its report is released, the National Institute of Standards and Technology issued its own statement Thursday.

Some steel recovered from the WTC was exposed to fires of only 400 to 600 degrees, the institute said, but computer modeling has shown higher temperatures of 1,100 to 1,300 degrees or greater were "likely" experienced by steel in regions directly affected by the fires.

The institute believes impact from the jets dislodged fireproofing surrounding some of the steel, and the higher temperatures led to the buckling of the towers' core columns.

- this guy has nothing to lose since he works for a non-profit org.

[TechPhunk]

Part 2 of rebuttal now that I'm back from classes...





1. Come on man, don't even go there. Europeans used to go to the Muslims to learn about their OWN philopshers, so don't even try to play that card. Islaamic civilization was the pinnacle of learning, sciences, culture, and art at a time when christains were running around believing woman had one less rib than man. In fact, it was Muslim control of European lands that sparked the renaissance, and that which you credit for all that you love and hold dear. So please, PLEASE don't sit there and act like western civilization is the forebearer for everything good and holy.

"You" haven't opened up children to a damn thing, in fact "YOU" aren't even really a member of that group which you hope so strongly to be a part of.



2. Hahahahaha, you're wildin' now. If the educational system over here was so prestigious and admirable, then why are most American teenagers/young adults DUMB AS ROCKS???? I've visited plenty of ivy league schools, and the vast bulk of those kids are there simply because of who their daddy is, and the color of their skin. They aren't there "learning and experiencing" they are going to keg parties, dropping acid tabs, and frying their brains with whatever the latest drug on the market is. Get the fuck out of that fantasy world you're living in, it's really not healthy.

3. If people in this country truly value education, then why is this forum (serious discussions) one of the least visited on this site? Why are most of the people who are registered on this site over in general chat making mindless threads like "what I think about you" for like, the millionth time in a row? Why can't most of our youth form coherent sentences and readable paragraphs? Education in this country is a JOKE fam, and that's just the truth of the matter...you can deny it all you want, but the facts remain.



4. Queens is the most ethnically, and culturally diverse county in the United States, so your assertion that living here has made me numb to rest of America is absurd, at best. I don't need a "social psyche" class to teach me about the quality of America's youth, all I need to do is look out my window...and guess what? There's 4 kids, about 11-13 years of age playing basketball, and cursing up a storm. Gee, that was easy, wasn't it?

Listen man, I'm no angel, and I'm no moral authority. I've fucked around and done a lot of shit in my day, but so what? That doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to recognize a PROBLEM and put a spotlight on it. You're problem is that you over-complicate things...every issue under the sun doesn't need to be taught to you in a classroom.

1. WTF are you talking about? My statement was directed at your pathetic claim that public education systems should be intervening in what the parents should be doing. I used those as examples of what they are able to learn in a public education system.

And yes, as a matter of fact, I have opened up children to a broader spectrum. But somehow you know who I am and what I do on my spare time.

2. You're one sad and sorry sap. It's too hard to fathom how much of a moron you are. I take it you don't go to college or to a university and you probably aren't destined to be at one. Most everybody goes to a keg party you jackass or has some sort of weapon of choice for fun. This doesn't detract from them going to class and learning and getting a masters degree or a Doctorates degree.

Maybe this will get you to stfu.
http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005_Top100.htm

<---Top 100 Unis in the world. Notice those that conducted the study. Pay close attention to the criteria that each uni needs to meet.


3. Who are you to dictate how they should spend their free time? Who are you to say that they have to act intelligent on a message board where there is no physical contact. Only when situations arise that require an argument followed by a defense does their need to be intelligence over the net. Keep in mind the RD forums aren't just Americans, but also Canadians, and Europeans, and further more, quite a few from South Asia. And let's not talk about coherent sentences - your statements prior were full of syntax errors and spelling errors.

4. Lol, you sit in your room and are watching a couple of kids play basketball - what a great basis for your argument. There's a United States outside of Queens, go check it out.

[sharthap]

Bullshit. The west fears Islaam because it is the complete opposite of what they stand for. While the west seeks to strip people of religion through the guise of "secular freedoms," Islaam seeks to establish a society based upon a divine order. It is only natural for a system as satanic as that of the west to stand opposed to this, because if Islaam were ever established in enough areas, it could cause a ripple affect that would threaten western supremacy in territories they wish to maintain control over.

There is a reason why the Iranian revolution scared the SHIT out of Europe and North Amerika. If the west truly stood for democracy, why were they fighting tooth and nail to keep the oppressive shah in power while the people of that country overwhelmingly despised him? Why did they overthrow the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh? Why should Arabs and other muslims accept democratic ideals when the west themselves don't even value them?

I'm one of the many people who don't accept the story that has been fed to us about 9-11 as true. I don't believe a handful of Arab rebels fighting with leftover AK-47's from the cold war could pull off an attack as sophisticated and calculated as what occurred on that day. That attack was conducted with military precision, and there is NO WAY IN HELL those two towers could collapse the way they did because they were hit by planes...especially when the architect of the towers himself stated that he designed them to withstand 5-6 planes colliding into them. Those buildings were brought down by bombs placed strategically within the structure, and there are eyewitnesses who were there that day who will testify to that fact.

What is the probability of two towers, standing independendtly of one another, and STRUCK independendtly of one another (and at different times), collapsing the EXACT SAME WAY? Why does the government get nervous every time these questions are asked? Why don't they get a serious forum of discussion?

Bottom line: This government brought those towers down, there is no doubt in my mind about it. If you look at 9-11 as a crime, establish a motive, and see who benefited, the facts become clear as day. They used those attacks as an excuse to invade Iraq, overthrow their government, and take control of the petroleum fields in the region....now those bastards are swimming in oil, wiping their ass with dollar bills, charging YOU absurd amounts for gas, and calling it a crisis.

There is no crisis...they control the prices, they can charge you WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT for gas, but they know that if the American people are stupid enough to believe that a bunch of arabs hijacked three planes using BOXCUTTERS, and flew them into two towers causing them to "implode" and collapse, they'll fall for anything.

But, you know, it's easy to blame everything on Muslims...

....THE FUCK OUTTA HERE!!!

woah, will you just listen to this guy?

ok buddy, i won't try to refute ANY of what you say, because a lot of it makes sense, and you do seem to have credible sources to back your views up.

But maybe you could do a little favor to all of us and explain one simple little thing? If "the US is the epitome of evil" as you put it, then why the fuck are you still sitting your ass in your air-conditioned room in a Queens apartment in New York? Who the heck is stopping you from moving to any of the 26 Islamic nations worldwide, and continuing your war against the infidels from over there? DON'T give me BS about you not being able to cause you're in school, got a job, or not got enough money. We both know that if you can afford the luxury of spending so much time on RD, you can very well afford to get the fuck outta this evil place.

fuckin ultimate form of hyporcricy.

stop making excuses for an institution that has proven intself to be the epitome of everything foul just because you are afforded a few petty luxuries. What the fuck kind of spineless reasoning is that? People who think like that should kill themselves...I firmy believe that.

and then you say this? why don't you make an example for all the disillusioned people and leave this place and its "few petty luxuries", and then maybe others will follow your example? Until you can do that, stop your hypocritical preaching and STFU!

[aiyun]

i think u want to reframe the question as
"did 9/11 bring the mess in middle east back into focus?" and ho[pefully this time it will be sorted out yes.

coz the image u send out by tying 9/11 and islam is rather insulting the religion and its followers. and most educated people on this topic would agree its mroe of a political issue than religious.

[Truthsayer]

woah, will you just listen to this guy?

ok buddy, i won't try to refute ANY of what you say, because a lot of it makes sense, and you do seem to have credible sources to back your views up.

But maybe you could do a little favor to all of us and explain one simple little thing? If "the US is the epitome of evil" as you put it, then why the fuck are you still sitting your ass in your air-conditioned room in a Queens apartment in New York? Who the heck is stopping you from moving to any of the 26 Islamic nations worldwide, and continuing your war against the infidels from over there? DON'T give me BS about you not being able to cause you're in school, got a job, or not got enough money. We both know that if you can afford the luxury of spending so much time on RD, you can very well afford to get the fuck outta this evil place.

fuckin ultimate form of hyporcricy.



and then you say this? why don't you make an example for all the disillusioned people and leave this place and its "few petty luxuries", and then maybe others will follow your example? Until you can do that, stop your hypocritical preaching and STFU!

Well said my friend.

[Cunard]

all these arguments in justifying the hate towards the US by the muslim world for its sins in the past is pointless

muslim empires of the past and govts of the present arent saints either...these folks probably treat muslims worse in there own countries then the way muslims are treated in the US

minorities (including muslims) in the west for the most part can practice whatever religion they want.....most minorities cant practice there religion openly in the muslim world......certain "sects" of islam are infact banned or denied the right to exist....even targeted with violence.

The US is far from perfect......but its pretty nice to the 7 million muslims that live in it, practice there faith in it, and build houses of worship in it......rights denied to most religions in the muslim world

[sharthap]

thats a tired ass adage my friend, and I'm afraid it's also a cop out.

i couldnt give less if it was tired ass. ever considered it may be tired ass because it is, ummm....TRUE?

I was born here, but I don't plan on dying here, god-willing.

God-willing indeed. Meanwhile, we can't wait.

So what, according to you, just because I have access to a computer, and am able to use the internet, all of a sudden I can somehow afford to pack my bags and move to another continent? What the fuck is wrong with you?

No? Then until you can, stop whining, complaining, and bitching and at least have the decency to be grateful to the country you're eating, breathing, living, and shitting in. fuckin ingrate.

[sharthap]

all these arguments in justifying the hate towards the US by the muslim world for its sins in the past is pointless

muslim empires of the past and govts of the present arent saints either...these folks probably treat muslims worse in there own countries then the way muslims are treated in the US

minorities (including muslims) in the west for the most part can practice whatever religion they want.....most minorities cant practice there religion openly in the muslim world......certain "sects" of islam are infact banned or denied the right to exist....even targeted with violence.

The US is far from perfect......but its pretty nice to the 7 million muslims that live in it, practice there faith in it, and build houses of worship in it......rights denied to most religions in the muslim world


damn right. all these fucktards have no purpose in life and have obvious inferiority complexes, thats why they're all out trash-mouthing the US and singing praises for other nations they haven't even seen.

i'd like to hear these dudes go and live in other nations, see the restrictions that many of them impose on their citizens, then cry foul about what they had.

[Bak Squad]

I agree with Shiva Christ! The attacks of 9/11 have done nothing but make muslims out there look bad and portray a negative image for all of us, since 9/11.... the world knows more about muslims, but not in a positive light.

[sharthap]

The only things I need to be grateful to are God, and the nuts that he's blessed me with. Thank you very much.

oh, ok. its all about you, aint it. fuck everybody else.

[TechPhunk]

Listen to you dudes, you all sound like rats:

"Part 2 of my rebuttal, back from classes!!!" what the fuck kind of homosexual shit is that? Relax you fucking cupcakes, I thought we were just shootin' the breeze here?...I swear, you're all like little geeks who get hard ons when you sense blood and the chance to flex your puny little mental muscles. What a bunch of scavengers. This isn't debate class, you lame, this is a discussion amongst adults that is proving to be fruitless.

You don't like what I have to say, fine, but it figures you would start to make assumptions about my status of living when I haven't done to same to you, and then go the route of "oh, well why don't you just leave the country then?" thats a tired ass adage my friend, and I'm afraid it's also a cop out. I was born here, but I don't plan on dying here, god-willing. So what, according to you, just because I have access to a computer, and am able to use the internet, all of a sudden I can somehow afford to pack my bags and move to another continent? What the fuck is wrong with you?

And to Mr. Techpunk, you're right, I'm not in a college or university, or at least not at one that would suit your "standards," and no, i'm probably not "destined" to be either. But, on some real shit, that statement you just made was incredibly shallow, and quite revealing of your true nature. What are you, some sort of super-frat-boy type of cat? Geeett the fuck outta here..

and so what if these people are blowing acid and passing their exams? THEY ARE BLOWING ACID you fucking dummy. There is a difference between possessing book-smarts and actual intelligence. Books can't teach you how to be a well-rounded person, all books can do is get you a good grade. THAT is my point. You seem to be a fan of memorization as the basis of an education...well, to me, that isn't what true knowledge is. So i'm afraid all of that nose-in-the-air shit that you are on just doesn't impress me, sorry. I'm going to make it real simple for you: I don't believe the American education system is an ideal form of raising, rearing, and teaching the youth. I don't give a fuck how many classes they pass, what does that have to do with anything? Honestly...People all over the world come here and are shocked at the way the kids, teenagers, and young adults act. This is a nation of well-to-do savages, if you want to be honest about it.

Did you know that the average American college student couldn't even name the vice president of this country if you asked them? lol, and you have the nerve to sit here and try to sell me the idea that the quality of education in this country is anything other than pathetic...get a fucking clue. Admit that there's a problem, and stop being a damn scum-bag. Damn.


Boo-hoo. Let me get you a tissue. Doing drugs goes with the experience of life and learning for yourself. It may be an unintelligent choice in your opinion that they do it, but it no way means that they lack any sort of common-sense intelligence. You should quit while you're ahead. Next time you come to a "serious-discussion," be sure to bring data that backs up your presumptions. I'm done with this...you've shown to everybody else that you're not ready to be discussing issues with "adults."

[adren@line]

all these arguments in justifying the hate towards the US by the muslim world for its sins in the past is pointless

muslim empires of the past and govts of the present arent saints either...these folks probably treat muslims worse in there own countries then the way muslims are treated in the US

minorities (including muslims) in the west for the most part can practice whatever religion they want.....most minorities cant practice there religion openly in the muslim world......certain "sects" of islam are infact banned or denied the right to exist....even targeted with violence.

The US is far from perfect......but its pretty nice to the 7 million muslims that live in it, practice there faith in it, and build houses of worship in it......rights denied to most religions in the muslim world

lol so true.

MUSLIMS IN GENERAL in the USA and the west live better lives than Muslims in Muslim countries.

SHIAS , Ahmadis, Ismaelis, etc are all safer in India than they are in Pakistan.

:dance3:

[adren@line]

lol@ "fucktard," that shit sounds mad homo.

Anyway, I never sang the praises of any other nation, even though I know you'd like to believe I did. I say what I say about this country because it is the self-appointed leader of the world, and if they are going to try and play that role, they should be closely scrutinized and put to task for whatever they do, or try to.

I'm not like you little ******s who choose to put blinders on just because you can sit on your couch on a saturday night beatin' your meat to porn while singing god bless america. If the United States supports brutal regimes to further their interests, I want to know why. If the United States is provoking tensions in a certain part of the world, I want to know why. If the United States starts interfering in another country's affair, I want to know why. I don't want to watch desperate housewives gottdamnit, I WANT TO KNOW WHY! Why is this is so hard to comprehend?!?!? This is a country that has enslaved people. This is a country that has virtually EXTERMINATED an entire race. This is a country that has dropped nuclear bombs on whole populations. This is a country that lies to it's own people in order to gain their support for a phony war that is in reality an occupation. This is the country you want me to honor, and wet my jeans over. Um....no.

too much pot.

[sharthap]

lol@ "fucktard," that shit sounds mad homo.



yea lol man, rofl thats so gay....

a bittery complexed, dis-illusioned, anti-western under-achiever...AND a homophobe? thats rich.

I'm not like you little ******s who choose to put blinders on just because you can sit on your couch on a saturday night beatin' your meat to porn while singing god bless america. If the United States supports brutal regimes to further their interests, I want to know why. If the United States is provoking tensions in a certain part of the world, I want to know why. If the United States starts interfering in another country's affair, I want to know why. I don't want to watch desperate housewives gottdamnit, I WANT TO KNOW WHY! Why is this is so hard to comprehend?!?!? This is a country that has enslaved people. This is a country that has virtually EXTERMINATED an entire race. This is a country that has dropped nuclear bombs on whole populations. This is a country that lies to it's own people in order to gain their support for a phony war that is in reality an occupation. This is the country you want me to honor, and wet my jeans over. Um....no.

oh wow, listen to Mr. Holier-than-thou. Whoop-de-fuckin-do, America is the devil incarnate. Don't even get me started on the atrocious history of Arab nations. The fact is that every single nation in history has used its power to advance itself. But that ain't good news for you of-course, because the nation you live in isn't the nation you support.

man, in the end, if you can't even be loyal to the nation you were born, brought up, and live in...forget ever finding yourself being a part of any other.

fact remains, you're a treacherous ingrate.

[BliX]

The world still doesnt know shit about Islam after 9/11. All they were updated with is that they are natural born terrorists. Terrorist activity will never be a good action to promote islam, which is fucking stupid to even say.

[Sikh4Lyfe]

Seriously, SugarHillSides is fucking hilarious in this topic, this topic is #1 just because of his replies.

[sharthap]

^^ :Owned:

[ggggunit]

btw, i posted a reply in this one thread, and I noticed a comment from a certain individiual that likes to date black chicks, well, the sn was "sugarhillsides" and I thought to myself, hmmm isn't it HAREM to be dating before marriage in the islamic culture?, that's what these stupid infidel american do, date and have sex and go out before marriage, ! 9/11, forget that man, the towers were blown up by george w. bush himself,cause he's such a genius mastermind ya know, (btw george W. bush hates christianity and tries to promote athiesm, he's only "pretending" to be christian)there was no muslim invovlement at all!, infact, the taliban is a great nation for overthrowing those evil athiest russians, may all russians go to hell, I mean, who cares if women aren't allowed to read, those bitches must be put in thier place!, btw, everyone who attends university is fucking stupid, because all they do is "blow acid," (even though acid is ingested and coke is "blown"?) and jump out of windows at nyu. fuck nyu and thier film and law program, fuck them to hell! it's all about working at apu's quiki-mart, hitting on chicks, and destroying the infidels! infact, ANYONE who disagrees with anything I have to say is a fucking hindu nationalist patriot who loves to suck dick, fuck you guys, your fucking EVIL

you win sugarhillsides, your argument is so logical, i agree with you one hundred percent. i mean, why did i not see this earlier? HOW CAN I BE SO BLIND!!!!, i say we start a fucking jihad right now. whose with me?

Oh My God, that ***** Sugarhill got Owned!!! :Owned:


LOL :rofl:

[Omna82]

WOW! Sugarhillsides is damn good.

[D8797]

Yes the 9/11 attacks sure got the message across about Islam thats why the Americans are killing Muslims more by the hundreds and thousands, While Islamic books are having the highest selling rate ever recorded the muslim death rate will probably end up the highest ever recorded too :sarb:. If any of u's think this is the right way to get ur religion noticed i feel sorry 4 u's,
Americans are not killing Muslims my friend but Muslims are killing muslims in Iraq.

[D8797]

Terrorists? they are the people with realy big heart, willing to end there life to fight for there muslim peoples, when som1 suicide, in Palestine, they arent doing anything wrong, there families has been killed and and they have no weapons except for usin dynamite wrraping around there self and destroy the jews... its not wrong, they are giving there life to prove to the world, muslims are not scared of anything, they can giv there LIFE in path of Islam to able to protect the Religion and there families, but people dont see other side of the story, they just say wut they saw in da media, cuz media doesnt show bak scenes...
Oh So tying explosive laden belt around your waist and blowing yourself is a manly thing for you? LOL man its pathetic and all those morons are gonna burn in hell.

One other thing. The suffering of palestinians is the reward of their own deeds.

[D8797]

i totaly agree... how can anyone say terrorism helped people become more aware of your religion or teach them about it, lol.... did any of you guys go to school....
LOL thats true.